I have heard so many state that no one except Peter and Sirius knew that the Potters switched Secret-Keeper at the last moment, but I don’t have the book with me, so I’m not sure if that is actually right. But if it is, Dumbledore would surely have questioned Hagrid borrowing Sirius’ motorbike to bring Harry to the Dursleys. Because at that moment Hagrid was actually riding the spy’s bike. If indeed no one knew about the switching. But if Dumbledore knew about it, then why hasn’t he fought to reveal the truth? That leads me to my second wonder; why has Dumbledore (or Remus for that matter) not gone to see Sirius in Azkaban, to find out what really happened that Halloween? Sirius says in GoF that Barty Crouch was only allowed inside because he was an important man in the Ministry, but that only excuses Remus. Dumbledore, of all, must be characterized as an important man in the Ministry.

EDIT: Dumbledore says to Harry and Hermione that he gave evidence to the Ministry that Sirius indeed was the Secret-Keeper. So he did not know about the last-minute-switch. But that still doesn’t explain why he didn’t react to Hagrid riding Sirius’ motorbike. And I still believe that he ought to have visited Sirius anyway, to at least try and understand why he did it.

What's your thoughts about this?

And I’m very sorry if this topic’s already being discussed somewhere else but I’m still kinda new here.. :-/

Well I think you make some very valid points there. But I think that perhaps the reason Dumbledore didn't question Hagrid about having Sirius' motorbike is because he did know about the switch but couldn't say he did because he had learned of it in a way that he shouldn't i.e. Occlumency or even through Snape finding out by posing as a Death eater. Also if he did know this perhaps the reason he left Sirius in Azkaban was possibly to protect him from Voldemort because he knew that Sirius would go after him to avenge the Potters deaths and also perhaps to keep Harry safe in the Dursley's because he knew that Sirius would try and fight to get custody of Harry and to bring him up in the magical world which Dumbledore didn't want.

Oh, well-spotted there!!

Yes, don't you think it's odd too for JKR to mention Sirius in the early book of PS/SS only to bring him up again in PoA? I think, it's not Hagrid's fault that he agreed to take Sirius' bike to Surrey but Dumbledore on the other hand... there's something there, isn't it?

About DD not visiting Sirius in Azkaban, well, IMO, Azkaban is much like any other Muggle's prison. With its different level of security. Those who commit 'light' (for lack of better word) crime, who would be release in certain time, I saw them as those who allowed for visitors. But unlike Sirius, committing several different crimes like being a DE (which is not, of course!), using the Unforgivables, using dark magic in the presence of public Muggles, killing loads of them too... well, having the Dementors keeping a good watch at him, I think they might not allowed for any visitors.... I dunno... I thought it was like that...

I_love_Rupert_Grint

I do believe that he did not know about the switch and if he did, I’m sure Dumbledore would never leave anyone in Azkaban just for protection. Sure he would have thought of something else. And we know from OotP that Sirius, despite how much he disagrees with it, does in fact listen to whatever Dumbledore says. So I’m sure he wouldn’t fight for custody when Dumbledore says he shouldn’t. I really hope that Dumbledore did not know about it like he says he doesn’t, because that would make him mush less heroic in my head. Letting Sirius stay in Azkaban when he knew he was innocent. That is so not Dumbledore...


Zyra123

Well the idea of mentioning Sirius in PS is indeed very cute, but it doesn’t work if she has not thought it through though. And I agree about Hagrid, because, even though he is in the Order, he probably doesn’t know everything about the Potters. But we do know that Dumbledore did.

And about the Azkaban thing, I see your point, but Crouch Jr.’s crime isn’t exactly what I would call “light”. He was captured along with the people who tried to find Voldemort and the people who did that horrible thing to Frank and Alice Longbottom *shivers*
And again, his father could visit him because of his importance in the Ministry.

This really bugs me!!

Dumbledore might have been seen as an important man in the Ministry. No wait... I think he's been seen as an important man in the wizarding world . It's a bit different with Barty Crouch Sr. who in himself an important man within the Ministry itself.

My point is, he could use his influence within the Ministry, poking about here and there, thus allowing him to visit his son. Crouch Jr. may not be allowed for visitors per se, but just by coincidence that his dad a powerful (so to say) man in the Ministry that they allowed them to see each other.

Although, I'm with you in a sense that Dumbledore maybe up with something by refusing to see Sirius in Azkaban. I mean, when the trio told him that Sirius was actually innocent, he's readily believing them, it's like the info was not new to him. It's like it was more like a confirmation to his doubt...

He's one manipulative man.... wise, but manipulative...

I agree about Coruch Sr. because he does know Fudge and maybe Fudge just let him visit his son because of his wife being so ill.

I don't know about that.. I really don't think that Dumbledore actually knew about Sirius being innocent, maybe he just has this 'feeling' about people. And then his 'feeling' about Sirius was positive in some way so when he heard the story from Sirius and then Harry and Hermione backed it up, he just felt that it must have been the truth. BUT if that is correct, he should still have visited Sirius in Azkaban. This is going in circles, hmm. He is a strange man Dumbledore.

what I don't understand is why would anybody have Peter P. as your secretkeeper. that is just about asking to die or am I wrong?

They couldn't have known that Peter would turn against them. That he was *THE* spy. They thought that Peter would be too cowardly to face Voldemort and well, obviously they didn't know Peter all that well.

I thought their reason in changing from Sirius to Peter as secret keeper is rather reasonable.

Would you care to share with us more on your thought in this rather than posting a single line like that? What exactly do you mean that by pointing Peter as Secret Keeper it is like asking for death?

Enlighten me....

'Lily and James only made you Secret-Keeper because I suggested it,' Black hissed, so venomously that Pettigrew took a step backwards. 'I thought it was the perfect plan ... a bluff ... Voldemort would be sure to come after me, would never dream they'd use a weak, talentless thing like you ... it must have been the finest moment of your miserable life, telling Voldemort you could hand him the Potters.'

I do understand the way Sirius is thinking here but we know that it wasn't smart not to tell Dumbledore about the switch, because that would have saved Sirius from the 12 years in Azkaban. And I don't understans why they did not tell Dumbledore.. of all people.. I mean we know that the Potters were very close to him. And if it was Dumbledore who suggested they gor into hiding in the first place. And where is Remus in all this? We know that Remus and Sirius each thought the other to be the the spy, but did Lily and James must have agreed with Sirius. Scary..

Linda: They trusted him. Thought he was their friend. Big mistake..

Well, maybe Dumbledore thought that Sirius had alredy given his motorbike to Hagrid.
I know that it isnt a comprehensive answer. That night at Godrics Hollow is very puzzling, isn't it? I mean there is that 24 unaccounted hours. A lot could happen in that time.

Mooonstar -

I don't think Remus or Dumbledore went to see Sirius in Azkaban because who wants to be associated with a mad, muggle-killing, lunatic, eh?

Although, I can find it odd that Dumbledore wouldn't go. He went to Azkaban to see Hokey and Morfin Gaunt. But was that just for memories? They were also believed to be murderers as well, morfin more so than hokey.

DD wouldn't have questioned Hagrid having the motorbike because at that point "sirius" (peter) had not yet killed all the muggles and wasn't seen as the bad guy! DD still thought he was the secret keeper. Hagrid said he turned up when he heard what happened and gave hagrid his motorbike to bring him to DD and the Dursleys. Dd didnt question it because the murders of the 13 people hadnt happened yet so sirius wasnt yet seen as the bad guy.

I dont think either of them visited Sirius in Azkaban because 1) i dont think remus would have wanted to see someone he thought had betrayed two of his best friends and had them killed! why would he put himself through that and 2) they didnt need to question him about what happened that night because they thought they already knew. they thought sirius had told voldemort their hiding place and then killed the 13 people... they didn't think there was anything else that needed questioning - as they knew there was a spy already leaking things about the potters, and once "sirius" killed peter and the muggles, they thought they had figured everything out.

dumbledore wont have knew about the last minute switch but if he did he would of realised serious needed to be in askaban till it was time for him to get in contact with harry and help harry out

The whole question of the Secret Keeper doesn't make sense to me. Two people were at the Potters - Hagrid and Sirius. That means that Hagrid had to have been told by Pettigrew and he would have known all along the Sirius was innocent.

By the same token, the minute he saw Hagrid there, Sirius would have known that Pettigrew told Hagrid. Both of them at this point should have given evidence to the Ministry as to Pettigrew's guilt.

Yet it seems that everyone, including Dumbledore, participates in a charade to convince people that Siruis was the guilty one. They seem to especially want Harry to believe it after Sirius escapes.

I think that maybe once the people who were in hiding are deceased and therefore do not need to be hidden anymore, it is possible for other people to find out their whereabouts. Therefore, Hagrid showing up at Godrics Hollow would make sense because he and Sirius were there after Lily and James were dead, and therefore were able to see where they lived.