There has been some interest in there being an anti-Twilight thread, and our administrator, Passerby, thinks it might be a good idea, since non-supporters of the series tend to get shouted down here at VTM.

So this thread is for talking about the Twilight series and why you don't like it. People should feel free to offer any criticism of the series that they want to, without having to defend their position constantly. We have two pro-Twilight threads already, one for the movies, one for the books, and that is where to go to sing praises. For now, this thread can be for non-support of the books and the movies. If it proves popular it'll be expanded to a movies thread and a books thread. We'll see how it goes.

This thread will be closely monitored and any orneriness (is that a word?) that goes beyond the pale will be noticed--keep it civil, thanks!

Fire away!

Well, I for one don't think that the author has a very good writing style; I'd read it when my friend Lizzy kept insisting that I ought to, to be polite, but I was suspicious of it the second I read the caption: "One, Edward Cullen was a vampire, Two, som part of him thirsted after my blood, and Three, I was completely and totally in love with him."

I had reason to be suspicious. It really is too mushy for my taste, which is even more bizarre, because think about it:

We've got a 70 year old who pretends to be seventeen, dating a teenager? Anybody would raise their eyebrows.

When she brought in werewolves, I started laughing. No, really, I started laughing. Can't get much better than that, can it? (hint of sarcasm here)

The only thing good I do have to say about this book is that it's a little unorthodox for a vampire story. But that doesn't mean I like it.

I won't go quite as far in abusing this book as my dad, who shouts that it's pornographic whenever vampires are mentioned.

I have a love-hate relationship with the Twilight series. That's why you will find comments by me in all the threads. There are parts I love, but more that I really don't.

Like E.Austen, I read them because a friend wanted me to. I enjoyed them, in fact, they are like potato chips--I couldn't seem to put the books down once I picked them up. But other than reading about 6 chapters in Twilight for the seecond time, I've never really had the urge to re-read them. After I finished them, after I put them down, I was like, "Weirdly compelling, but rather badly written."

There are grammar mistakes, spelling mistakes. Where was Stephenie's proofreader? Or can people in the publishing industry not actually spell anymore?

Yes, it's very romantic. But the romance has connotations that make me really uncomfortable. I see Edward as an overly-obsessed stalker. I see Bella as having little sense of her own worth outside of Edward's opinion of her. This is not a healthy relationship by any means, these characters have serious emotional hang-ups. I find it disturbing that so many people think their relationship is ideal! And I wasn't even thinking of E.Austen's idea about the age difference! lol That's an interesting take.

Yes, it's rather clever turning a family of vampires into do-gooders. And the whole Quilute legends thing was really interesting. But the ending of the series with a fight that didn't happen (was Stephenie unable to let anyone die that might be remotely someone's favorite?) was the sort of lame fan fiction I wrote when I first wrote fanfic. And if it isn't any better than that, why is Meyer published and the rest of us aren't? In fact, if one were to read my Draco fanfics, you'd find I had at least six plot points that I had already used in that little series that were used in Meyer's book which came out two years later. All in all, weird.

But I bought the books. I just bought the DVD, and I watched it and enjoyed it. Compelling again, if you don't think about it too much.

All in all, the series deserves the laughs it gets behind its back, despite its popularity. It's fun. The fandom is fun. But it does not resonate with me as Jo's writing does. It makes me wonder if the fad will die out before the last movie gets made. Possibly. Time will tell.

Ooooohhhh I have been waiting so long for this thread to 'respectfully constructively' criticise Twilight. I reckon I'll be posting in here a lot

Ok I know so many people who have read and love the books and film. These people ranging in age from 5 to 19 - all of whom are girls. Guys, like me, tend to take the stories at face value and see them as 'a teenage girl's day-dream, the main character being a mould onto which girls can project themselves and imagine Bella's oh so wonderful life is theirs.'

A worthy quote^^

Anyways. I find the Twilight parodies a lot more interesting and I will shortly be writing one for those of you who don't take the books too seriously. I mean yeah, each to their own and just because Twilight isn't for me doesn't mean I hate everyone who likes it or that it isn't good for others but it just gets annoying when the die-hard fans go onn at folk like me for saying the tiniest thing against it. Each to their own, agree to disagree.

Yay, a Venom thread! I probably shouldn't be so happy about that, but I have no one in real life to complain about Twilight to anymore, since my best friend succumbed to it.

I tried to read it because of how so many people kept telling me that I should "try it before I condemn it." So I was like...well, okay, then I'll try to read at least the first book. And I actually do plan on reading the whole series eventually, but for now, the first book will have to suffice. So I read it. And it was awful.

I mean, for one, Stephenie Meyer writes like a 12-year-old. A 12-year-old who does not understand the mechanics of the English language. That sounds really harsh, but it's basically true. I don't think she can write. I do think that there are some good ideas behind the series, but they are completely lost in the way she writes. It is full of completely unnecessary and redundant descriptions that literally made me wince to read.

I also hated Bella. She was a total Mary Sue character in the first book (I don't know if she gets better, some people have said that she does, but in the first one, she sure doesn't). She sounds like a rotten, vindictive, sour kind of person, but somehow she's "perfect" and everyone loves her. Say WHAT? I mean, all she does, it seems, is grump and complain and wonder why anyone would like her, so everyone in Forks does. That makes no sense. And of course she's drawn to Edward. Why not? He's the one who doesn't pay any attention to her! It's like she's going "Hey, you're supposed to pay attention to ME. If you don't, I will follow you around and act like I am inwardly obsessed with you, and ask people questions about you all day until you have to acknowledge that I exist."

And what's up with the Cullens? Honestly--fine, I get it, they sparkle in sunlight. I don't care how cloudy Forks is, you cannot make me believe that not ONCE has anyone noticed that they sparkle. All it would take is one stray beam of sunshine and POOF! Secret gone. Or at least compromised to an extent. But there's no mention of that ever happening. I mean, if they can modify someone's memory of an event, fine, but for it to have never happened? They don't live in a world of perpetual night, they live in Washington. Even if they do "stay home on sunny days," something would still have gone wrong sooner or later. And that could have been an interesting plot point--what happens if one of them is noticed.

I also cannot see what's so "romantic" about Bella and Edward's relationship. He sounds like a complete possessive control freak and he even watches her while she sleeps. I'm sorry, but if someone did that to me, they would be out of my life so fast, their head would spin. And if I could, I'd call the police on them for stalking or something. That's just creepy. I mean, yay for looking after her, but you couldn't have done that outside? And Bella apparently doesn't care, she'd just willingly sublimate her personality under his like he's the ultimate be-all and end-all of her existence. While whining and complaining the whole time.

So yeah. I think that Stephenie Meyer did have some good ideas behind Twilight--and they could have been expressed really well--but she just missed the mark in my opinion.

Eisa, I've heard that alot that Meyer writes like a 12 year old. But I have to say that when I was twelve I was already writing better than her. And not by my own admission but in the opinion of someone who wrote for television and has her own published works. But seriously, I've been told that if someoen like Stephanie Meyer can get her stuff published then so can I and in that respect I have to appreciate the existence of Twilight which, if this is the standard of writing then I can most certainly rest easy that my standard is a great deal higher.
So on that note, thank you Stephanie Meyer!

Aethonon, I have a love-hate thing as well. I did enjoy the first few chapters and some bits in between, but then it started getting into the gushy romance. I prefer action over love in books, so that is when I began disliking the series. There were bits I liked, but a lot that I didn't like.

I sort of enjoyed the plot, and it was a neat idea for a story, but I had problems with the characters.

Like Eisa, I felt Bella was too perfect. Her only fault is that she complains, and everybody does at some point. There should have been a more real feel to her. And the fact that she looked sort of like a vampire at the beginning sort of gave the ending away. I mean, really. The characters in the book are mesmerized by the vampires' pale skin and the fact they stick to themselves. Bella is just the same way.

Don't even get me started on Edward. I will be kind and say he just isn't my cup of tea. (Or blood, as the case may be). He just seemed to pushy and controlling and just not someone I would want to be around. Oh, well. Each to his own.

Stephanie Meyer's writing didn't seem like it was written by a 12 year old to me so much. I think that was jsut her way of making it seem like a person's thoughts. A person's sketchy, jumbled, cut-off-in-the-middle-of-a-sentence thoughts. Although, there were a few bits where I would be sitting reading, and then go off into my own train of thought about subject verb agreement and commas.

This is just too funny! See, I still love Twilight, but sheesh it annoys the heck out of me!

Funnily enough I started reading Twilight again today, just because I watched the movie again and had forgotten all the missing bits, and low and behold I still think Bella is a whining emo! I hated the way she put her fathers ability to take care of himself down and was glad that she spent the best part of the 2nd two books grounded. If she'd been my daughter, I would have been a lot less lenient than Charlie.

I don't see Edward as controlling but whoa, stalker much, yet I can sort of 'get' him. Maybe because he's old fashioned and so am I

Anyway, I think I'm going to enjoy seeing both sides of the coin and will probably spend time in both threads!

As long as there is just one other person that posts here this thread will thrive^^ I mean if double posts were allowed it would most certainly be a very active thread^^

Anyway. I know I shouldn't judge before I have read the books but that seems unnecesary given that the story is splashed all over the net and I have seen so much of the film in clips on the television that I know the story. So why waste my time and money subsidising an author who has no more talent than the next person.

I suppose Twilight is a good example of dwindling standards in the publishing industry. Not trying to offend Twilight fans but it's frustrating for real authors with real talent who would love to have their work published that it is being passed over for... stuff like Twilight.
I mean, what's the big appeal? Harry Potter is in a waaayyyyy higher league, the two aren't comparable. What is the appeal to females over 20 and males in general? I just don't see it. Yeah people won't always see the appeal in Harry Potter but I fail to see why Twilight was published in the first place.

I am so happy for this thread! I've been posting in the Twilight book thread just to discuss it but not because I love it like the other people. I've read the whole series and own 3 of the books just because everyone was so obsessed with it so all of them were gone at the library.

In my opinion, she does write like a 12 year old. There's no depth to it like there is HP, and in my opinion, I think that's what SM is now trying to live up to with her series: HP and JKR! I mean, haven't you heard about how she's trying to make more money than JKR, which just sort of made me laugh. It's just, if you're going to write a series that has at least 3 books or more, you've got to have a bunch of details and background information, in my opinion, and not just writing about the characters and that's it. It gets boring after a while. I absolutely despise New Moon and Breaking Dawn because 1) I hate Jacob with a passion, and 2) what was the point of BD if there was no one killed and no fight!? It's beyond me.

But I might want to save my rant for later just because I've got some more threads to like at. We sure post a lot of stuff over 2 days, haha.

Yes! I get a strange sense of satisfaction everytime someone posts in this thread! Mwuhahahahaha!

Anyway. So any Twilight fans that are willing to 'constructively' criticise the books, what are the negative aspects of the stories/characters etc. for example one of you mentioned that the lead female is portrayed better in the film than in the book. And I've heard more praise for the series than I can take. So let's dish the dirt

I can quite happily tear the books apart.

I don't think she writes like a 12 year old, since I have a 12 year old and she couldn't possibly write a book, but I do think she is very inexperienced and amateurish. It's like Aethenon said, her books are full of typos and inconsistencies that should have been picked up during the editing process. Her lack of experience as an author shows when you read her other book, The Host. I found that incredibly hard to get into. The idea for her story was a good one, yet she didn't pull it off.

The whole premise behind Twilight is the feelings you have with your first love, add to that the object of your love being a dangerous person, someone that you really should not have anything to do with, you have a good recipe for teen paranormal romance. Twilight is still the better of the four books in my opinion, but where it falls down in my opinion is her characters. Bella is an intelligent girl. She works out pretty quickly what no other kid in her high school has managed to work out in two years, that the Cullens aren't normal. Straight away I have a problem with this, but that's the authors perogative, to use plot devices. This is evident throughout the book. The Quileute elders know that the Cullens are vampires yet they keep quiet because they are bound by some pact made by their grandfathers 70 years before. One of those elders is best friends with the chief of police and still doesn't say anything, even when people start dying...erm obstructing justice I think that's called.

The thing is, Stephenie Meyer could have written this strory about a girl moving to a new town and falling in love for the first time with the boy being any kid from the wrong side of the tracks. That she made him a vampire is what makes the story work but it's also what makes this story so annoying. The only believable thing in Bella's behaviour came during Eclipse when she realised she was attracted to Jacob. That's growing up, finding that your first love doesn't have to be the only one, but the author had already decided that for her characters, there could be no other. And for me, Bellas, albeit a supposedly intelligent mature for her age girl, was still only 17 and in the matters of the heart more than a little immature.

Basically, Stephenie Meyer is in love with the idea that girl meets boy, they fall in love and they stay in love no matter what the obsticles. That's unrealistic and this is the ideal that her readers have bought into. Despite the shoddy writing, she did manage to get the passion across with her words.

That being sad, Breaking Dawn, oh dear. By the time I got to this book I had stopped worrying about her writing. She could have gone the whole hog with this but I fear the reason she didn't was because, she didn't either want to or know how to. What I mean is, from the end of New Moon you knew that the Volturi would want to know about Bela should she go through the change. They would stop at nothing to get someone with talent working for them, they were the most powerful and feared vampires in the world. Yet Meyer had all this talk, talk build up where the main characters were preparing to battle to the death and the pfft, nothing, nada, she bottled it. So she either didn't know how to write a good bloody battle scene or knew that if she wrote one, she would undoubtably have had to kill off a major character. She didn't want to do this, she was too attached to them, she wanted a happy ending, but as an author writing her last book in a series, you can't afford to become attached to your characters. It was the last book, someone needed to die to give impact and she lacked the guts to do it. That's where I admire JKR, as her books progressed, the characters that died became more and more important ones, then in the final showdown, she did away with some pretty beloved characters and didn't give one jot what we the readers thought about it.

So, basically what I'm saying is, I love the storyline, I love that in the first book she captured the love between her main characters. In New Moon I love that she made Edward leave Bella and broke her heart, I felt that pain, but I hate her writing, I hate her lack of confidence as a writer and mostly, I hate that she didn't have the guts to end the series with any conviction...it was a damp squib!

I wrote a book when I was twelve! Two actually. both over 500 pages long so it isn't impossible and I know a published author who did the same at that age. Besides there's a thing called humourous exaggeration.

But anyway. A real writer, whose work comes from the heart, is never too scared to write with conviction. It sounds more to me as if she had a dream that she was quite taken with and decided to make something out of it. That's a good start. But it isn't enough in writing.

The art of writing is wonderful in that anyone can do it regardless of how big a vocabulary thtey may have or their writing style. But it makes all the difference in published writing whether someone has real writing talent - which Stephanie Meyer doesn't have. And it's a shame for those whose first love is writing and who would love to have their work published. And who actually put so much more work into it than Meyer.

Ok so I read a few more excerpts online and the writing is dire! Goodness, I could certainly write better than that at 12. Seriously.

Well. This is a gift indeed. I am exceedingly grateful for these meandering skills that allow one to stumble upon subjects which interest them. (In other words, the insight of people to create great topics of which I can comment and run amok within.) When in doubt I push the view new posts command and cross my fingers. Which is what I always do anyway... ^___^

As I have yet to come across more than a handful of people who are not completely, halfway or sort of enamoured of Twilight one may expect there is much for me to say having had to ehem suffer in silence.

In any case, yes this is bound to be longwinded, quite dry and many of you will come away with the thought that perhaps I am snobbish, uptight and prickly. In all honesty I am a lover of words, embellishments as well as what have you and expressing myself so lavishly is merely a means of exercising etc etc. Besides I really couldn't get away with this is reality, or rather the world outside of the internet.

Also, grammar mistakes are entirely my own and apologies as English is my second language plus, microsoft word is being difficult.



On to the task at hand. Firstly, yes I have indeed read the books and therefore now have weight in the words that I say. It's a reasonable requirement for complaint I agree, but a little tiring to hear fans ask over and over again when one reveals their adversion to the series.

As I was saying, in the beginning when I read the thing it was an agreeable book to me. I even suggested my sister look into it and this is something that I do not take lightly.

Upon revisiting the book a year later not understanding the hype and approaching fangirlish shrieks from various others when ever it was mentioned I saw it for what it was. (I also managed to read the 2nd book and have asked myself why since.)

Twilight, and the subsequent sequels thereafter are traps (tarps). This shall be explained shortly, but first I will concede that it is simplistically written. Anyone can read it, and that is what makes it so popular if you will.

The trap of it is, actually what blinded me in the first place. It's a love story and the one part done right. Moreover, every girl no matter how deeply this thought is submerged longs for a guy who actually likes them. Duh, right? Well, in this book that factor is enhanced to the ninth degree.

Imagine an immortal/cool/popular/what else one can think of guy picking you out of all the others to have and to hold. Is that not something touched upon in daydreams and fabrications of us females? At least once I can assure you.

Now that's all fine and dandy and I'm not one to put a book down simply because of this but there are more bones to pick.

Bella, as was previously stated by harryjpotter with a simply phenomenal quote has no personality. Not to mention an out and out Mary Sue as Eisa has already pointed out. I'll concede she's bad at sports and uh....that's all I can think of at the moment really. What else? Feel free to enlighten me on her other quirks. And this is not sarcasm. I honestly want to know.

Not to mention:

He's a vampire.

Oh.

Okay.

Seriously, that just about suspends belief. I mean, perhaps possible in this day and age but considering that to some people global warming is a hoax it doesn't seem so convincing after all. I would accept, some measure of disbelief and healthy mixture of fear done to a more realistic extent than was in the book. Denial is a defense mechanism and one that is an intrinsic part of us.



Just in case I might be giving something away. Erring on the safe side.

I won't even get into the sudden attraction and numerous suitors she aquires after, oh a day? of school. She's pale, and has brown hair. From california. A new kid, and that's sure to create some interest i'll agree to that. However, the social pecking order would not allow for such instant popularity to go unchecked, one would believe. Perhaps that is seen when she makes friends with the others but having displayed no real ability/coolness factor there should have been a markedly decrease in curiousity of her.

For the moment, I shall stop there as I am yet unsure if I have gone over the line...
And there are a great many things I ought to be doing if I wish to pass courses.

Cheerio,

Sinsdaemn

I think you have 100% hit the nail on the head there. The major appeal has to be it's simplicity. Anyone can read it and to be quite frank if you are going to read something for a quick escapist moment, you aren't about to pick up a 4000 pager like War and Peace.




I never said it was impossible, I was merely suggesting that in my experience working with this age group of children, the majority wouldn't be capable of writing a book at that age. I know that it happens and some are lucky enough to get their works published. But since I do not have the work of any twelve year olds at my disposal for comparison, I'll stick with saying Stephenie Meyers writing is amateurish, which in fact, it is. This was her first attempt at writing and it appears that she learned nothing on her journey through the entire series. She was just very lucky that she managed to get an agent and publisher on her side based on the idea behind her first draft. Is this not the reason a lot of people don't get published, they may very well have written something they perceive as worthy of publication, but unless you get the professionals on your side, you don't stand a hope in hells chance of your work going into print. Not fair I know, but a reality none the less.

I have read some terrible drivel by some great authors. The only reason they have the work published in the first place is because they are known. The books have been well written I grant you, but the story is absolute tosh. It's a pity that Stephenie Meyer is such a weak writer, perhaps in the hands of another, things would have been different.

Wow! I am SO glad you guys decided to open this thread! Thank you so much!

I've hated Twilight for a while now. Don't get me wrong, I did like it at one stage. Alot of my friends had read it and begged me to read it as they knew I was a book lover and thought I'd fall in love with the plot and characters just like them.

So I read it. I thought it was okay. The books were addicting to say the least. I read them all, even buying the last two in the series.

After Breaking Dawn, however, my opinion changed. I began to realise how terrible the characters and writing was. I told my friends I neither loved nor hated it, I had a mutual opinion about it. That was true. Soon after, I discovered the site Twilight Sucks. When I told my friends I had joined it, they were disgusted. My only reason for joining it, I told them, was to see anti's opinions. But as I read more and more criticisms of it, I realised they were right. It is terrible.

But that wasn't the only reason I turned anti. I thought they were okay but believed the attention they were getting was outrageous. It wasn't fair on other, brilliant books.

Reasons why I hate it?
1. The characters.
Edward is an abusive boyfriend. He controls Bella and manipulates her. He enjoys laughing at her too. I could expand on this but I'm not in the mood.
Bella is a Mary Sue. She is apparently just normal looking, yet all the boys in the school fall in love with her, even a TEACHER. She is constantly obsessed with looks -"oooh Mike's not pretty so I'll just ignore him" and "ewww Eric geek guy who's just trying to be nice to me oh no" - and complains about people inside her head, including her lovely father.
Need I say more about the rest of the characters? Who could have been interesting if they had been developed?
2. The love between Bella and Edward.
This is a very unhealthy relationship. It also promotes a very bad message to young girls. The way Bella threw herself off a cliff just to hear Edward's voice? And was like a zombie when he was gone? Not good. Besides, this love is not real. She just loves him for his looks, he loves her for her smell and they hardly know each other yet it's "true love" better even than Romeo and Juliet, according to Meyer.
3. Lack of plot.
Nothing much happens. It's all just about Bella and Edward's love. Bit of plot, character development, and maybe it would be as good as Harry Potter. Oh no wait, that's impossible.
4. The comparison between it and Harry Potter.
Harry Potter is a wonderful story of love, loyalty, friendship and bravery. It shows the love between friends and the willingness to die for them. (Okay I can hear you saying "Edward would die for Bella!" He can't die. He's a vampire.) It has a beautiful message and is a heartwarming story. Nothing can beat it, in my opinion.
5. The vampires.
Vampires don't sparkle. Okay, congratulations to her for being original, but what is the function of them sparkling? All it does is prove to Bella how beautiful and amazing Edward is. And the vegetarian vampires? Vampires are meant to drink human blood, they wouldn't care if they "hurt" a human.

Well that's just my opinion. Sorry if I offended anyone, and sorry for the rambling!

Ooohhh how I love this thread! *sings*

Sinsdaemn that was a fabulous post and the house points were very well deserved!
It's particularly Meyer's amature approach to writing that seriously annoys me. Doesn't she even feel embarassed that she made little if no effort in her writing?
chhermione as you mentioned, it's also Meyer's shallow approach to society that bothers me. Her stories are a major influence to her female teenage audience and she sends out a very negative approach about looks. She is basically condoning people who judge others on looks. From all that I have heard about her and her stories, she seems to be a very selfish person. Like one of the popular kids at school. Or perhaps it was because she was not one of the popular ones that she feels the need to have everyone loving the protagonist in the story. But that's a pretty childish approach. Instead of bigging up the whole popularity contest she could use her influence to send out positive messages.
That is one major point where Harry Potter is far far superior to Twilight. One of countless points that is.

Hmm, yeah, maybe that's a better way to phrase it. Her writing is extremely amateurish. Otherwise, it would be an insult to all the 12-year-olds who can write. I still wonder how she got published with the way she writes. I don't think that I have ever read another book where the style of writing is so amateurish and just bad. She could have written a book with the best plot/characters/ideas whatsoever, but the way she wrote it would have totally ruined it. So since she didn't write a book with the best ideas ever, it makes it even worse.

And that's what I was thinking, harryjpotter. It's like she's writing it to win the popularity contest that she never did in school. Like she's saying, "well, I wasn't popular when I was in school, so I know what I'll do! I'll write a book where the main character is popular beyond all reason and rationale, just so I can live vicariously through her!"

Comparing it to HP is absolutely horrible, too, in my opinion. Now, JKR kind of "fell down on the job" as the series went on (don't hurt me!), but only in a few details, and it seemed more like it was because she ran out of story a little bit before she was supposed to end the series. Also other little things like Ginny's character development make the last couple of books kind of...lacking, compared to the early books. They were still ages better than the Twilight series seems to be. You CAN'T be so attached to your characters that you can't kill them off if the plot requires it. And apparently Breaking Dawn...required it. And she didn't do it. That's the whole point of a story! Get the readers emotionally invested in the characters--and if something happens to them, well then, something happened to them. It makes you more invested in the book and what's happening. But if the author can't even do that, then what's the point? It takes away all the tension and all the conflict, unless you can make it very believable why it didn't happen, and apparently, she didn't do that.

And I still hate the idea of Bella and Edward being "in love," and it's true love. From what?! They didn't even know each other. Maybe you can fall in love at first sight, but I highly doubt that you can do it when you're a young teenager. Especially one like Bella. She was only obsessed with his looks, and he only liked her 'cause she "smelled good" and he couldn't tell what she was thinking all the time. That doesn't justify "true love," that just justifies being interested in each other. They could have gotten to know each other and really taken their relationship to the next level, where hopefully Bella wouldn't be so dependent on Edward. I mean...she really threw herself off a cliff to hear his voice?! That's beyond unhealthy! That's flat-out dangerous! What kind of message is that to send? Do anything for your "true love," who is really more like your crush 'cause you think he's cute? What??

Eisa I loved what you said about her writing Bella to project her own wishes on to that. There's nothing wrong in that, I'm currently writing a story in which I am writing the main character to how I would like to be. But unlike Meyer, I am sticking to something that's believable. As in, my character has faults, many of them. In that respect he reflects me just as I reflect him. There is an art to achieving certain things in writing and if Meyer attempted any of them she sadly failed.

Finally! A Twilight Venom thread! I have read all four of Meyer's bookswhen they were less popular and I didn't exactly enjoy them but tolerated them. Once Stephanie became famous and had much more publicity, I believe that the fame all went to her head. I have many friends that read the books over and over again and don't get tired of it. Some books are re-readable but Meyer's way of going about writing the seris was all wrong. Bella is a person who needs someone to constantly comfort her and tell her that everythings Ok. Edward is very controlling of Bella and woun't allow her to be her own person and do things independently.
Jacob and his pack are no better. Jacob is constantly trying to win over Bella with force and charm behind Edward's back. That was very odd. It was like a soap opera where the friend moves in on the 'forbidden' girl. Ugh. I can't stand soaps and I didn't like the Twilight version any better.
I have seen Stephanie Meyer on television and I believe that she is trying to show everyone how much better she is than all of the other authors. It's not a popularity contest! Honestly! You are supposed to write books for the enjoyment of readers not the satisfaction of beating others! I didn't like how she acted in any of her interviews. In fact I believe that she worsens as she moved her way to the top!
You can believe that I will be posting in this thread again to tell more about the storylines and Meyer's horrendous behaviour!

The popularity point never occurred to me, but that is true. I mean, what sort of person would begin a book with the narrator describing what her favorite clothes are?

This book is overwhelmingly popular here, I think partly because I live in the same part of America (in the same community, in fact) as Meyer, and there's a ton of people here who read her books for that very reason.

I read the first two books, tossed them aside, and haven't touched them since. Because they're not the sort of books I'd sit down with for light reading. And Bella drives me absolutely insane. She's supposed to be a heroine, but to be honest, she gives Lydia Bennet a bad name. Falling all over this 70 year old vampire just because he looks good? And he doesn't exactly treat her like an equal! Standing over her bed watching her, controlling her life, making her miserable half the time, and I've got two questions about both of them:

1. Why didn't she just dump him? She'd be happier.
2. Why didn't he just go and bite her from the onset? Judging by the way he treats her, he might as well have.


Another thing that drives me nuts is the way Meyer writes. She's too repetitive. For instance, can't she describe Edward's eyes with any adjective besides "smoking?"

Rant over. You should see me abusing "The Scarlet Pimpernel." I can go on for a whole hour about everything wrong with it.

E.Austen I really enjoyed reading your post there.
I think it is a very poor thing to say a lot of people read a book because they live close to the author instead of the book being read-worthy in that it is a good story and well written.
For example, I enjoy reading Ian Rankin's novels partly because he is from Edinburgh as am I but mainly because they are brilliantly written and I enjoy his writing. So there is a big difference between reading the books of someone who happens to live in your area just because it's a small claim to fame and celebrating a truly talented author.

See, I had a love/hate relationship with the series up until the movie came out. Now it's just dismal too me.

I first read New Moon going into my freshman year of High School for a summer reading program. Twilight wasn't on the book list, so I picked up and read it. Then I read Twilight because New Moon didn't make sense, then re-read it, then read Eclipse. Because I had read the three, I bought Breaking Dawn when it came out. This was before the huge Twilight-movie-craze. If I need a read I might crack open one of the books, but I lent them to my ten year old cousin, after trying to tell my aunt they aren't good books for a ten year old to read, didn't do much seeing how she's about to finish Twilight.


But the whole Twilight fandom ruined the books for me. Once the movie came out, and Robert Pattinson exploded over everything from t-shirts to socks to probably underwear, I was done. I couldn't have an intellectual conversation with anybody about the books anymore it seemed, without somebody bringing Robert Pattinson into it. Incase they haven't noticed, Robert Pattinson is not Edward Cullen. *sighs*




I totally agree here. The one word I can no longer read in any book, fanfiction or even hear without crinquing is incredulous. She uses it probably six times a page! She uses to explain looks, expressions, thoughts, everything!

Just one thing...nit picking really but hey, call me anal if you like! Edward is a 108 year old Vampire not 70.

I feel sorry for Robert Pattinson in a way. I don't think he thought this would happen and from interviews, he definitely feels weird about being packaged as Edward Cullen. Sad really because if you saw his acting in other things (he's done a few made for UK Tv things that I watched upon first screening) you'll see he's a pretty good actor. Sadly this doesn't come across in Twilight, but I blame the script for that. Although in some cases, like for the humans, the movie gave them better lines than they had in the books!

The best way to watch the movie is with the commentary running. Rob is so self deprecating and totally embarrassed by the whole thing, and takes the mickey out of himself constantly. Shame but if you try to ignore what the movie is about, the music is good, the scenery is lovely and over all it's filmed well.

Stephenie's habit of repeating words drives me insane...anyone care to count how many times she uses the chagrin?

I've actually made some good friends thanks to the Twilight fandom. But we're grown ups and don't get all silly and giggly at the thought of being bitten by a vampire. WE used it as a good excuse to get together, have a laugh and party. I met some of the cast and I can tell you they are a whole lot more than the sum of their parts in Twilight. I realised very quickly that none of us were interested in talking about the books so what does that tell you?

etphonehome it's Rob's problem if he felt like that. But an actor has to always be prepared to be type-cast just as they have to be prepared never to have any breakthrough success. It's a huge lottery to enter the film industry so he should be really grateful for getting that chance.
Ok I have to say though I wouldn't have even needed to think twice about taking on a role in Twilight. One look at the title and .. no! So it's Rob's own fault.

So Meyer has a mono-track mind? It puzzles me something rotten why the publishers published her book. Faur enough if this series was aimed at kids whose vocabulary is pretty much non-existant but still, books are a brilliant way at getting kids to improve their reading and writing and I have to really commend Jo here for her work in the Potter series because a lot of kids I know who read the Potter books learned a lot of new words through the stories.

I understand what you guys mean about her repeating words. I have a hard time thinking of words sometimes that have very few...friends because I'm only a freshman in high school. But there's this thing I use called a thesarus. I don't know if she's ever heard of one but...

And thank you etphonehome for clearing up about his age! I was like, I wonder how long it will take for someone to know he's not 70, haha. But I think that even that aspect is sort of not creepy, really. I mean, comparing to HP, I ship Severus/Hermione, and there's an age difference there. I know that 90 some years is a lot, but that's just one of the things that is different I guess. I think that's one of the few things I won't totally bash against the series and her writing,



Thank you! He's a person, not a character, and I know some people have a hard time realizing that, especially fan crazy girls. I like Rob Pattinson for himself, not because he played Edward. *sigh*


Yup, yup, and yup. He is abusive, and it's only because he's stronger than her. I know it's writing, but as you said here...



It does tell teen girls that as long as you love a guy, being in an abusive relationship is okay! I mean, I would never fall for it, and I know it's only a book, but you want you're book to send the right message, especially if you're going to incorporate it into every day life.

Yeah, Rob is real and Edward ain't but the two are linked and if Rob is typecast because of this one role then it's his thing. He was type-cast as Cedric thoguh, long before he ever played Edward.
It seems that like with a lot of things, it's only a very small percentage of people that have brought on the whole Ed/Rob-is-the-same-person thing. Most of the people I know who like Twilight are like 'ooohhhh why can't Edward be real??!!' 'Ohh Rob's great but he isn't my Edward' or 'Rob doesn't sparkle for me'.

Haha, you know I had that icon a while ago that said 'My Edward' on it, and I regret it. But I agree with you. Edward can't be real because he's a fictional character and unless Stephanie Meyer somehow magically knows the Cullens and put them all in danger with writing about them, then you're out of luck.

What I want to ask is what you think about the characters she created, besides Edward and Bella. What do you think of the Volturi and Alice and Carlisle? Do you think they're to thin or harzardess to the story?

The supporting characters fail. They don't support. They are cardboard and bland. Characters outside the lead characters are supposed to help the story in that they provide relief from the main characters because going on and on about the main charcters does not make a good story. They are also a means to reveal more about the story and main characters which Meyer fails in doing.
Basically all her side-characters do are gush at Bella or go loose on ed. Major Boring.... She might as well just have written about Bella and Ed and the only difference would be a few pages less.

I do like Carlyle, and Alice. I find their back stories to be really interesting. In fact, Carlyle is a much more interesting character than Edward. I wish if Stephenie had had to go into anyone's head other than Bella's, it had been Carlyle's instead of Jacob's. But the main thrust of the stories has never been vampirism or its effect--it's been about the teen romance thing. Which, to me, is it's most tedious aspect, too!

I don't much care for the Volturi. I don't like the way they are painted as evil for simply being what they are. In fact, I had to chuckle to myself last week, when I was thnking about the "vegetarian" Cullens...wouldn't they be doing the world a greater service by cutting down on the human population, instead of feeding on species which are already getting more rare all the time due to human overpopulation and encroachment?

Elaine, I have to say, I really, really enjoy your posts here. I was actually a bit nervous that you would really dislike this thread being here at VTM. But your views from the side of the fandom you've experienced are so insightful!

All in all, I want to thank everyone who has enjoyed and contributed to this thread! In every post I discover another aspect of the series that bugs me and makes me go, "Yes, that's true!" lol

I love this video^^ And it's what I'd do but I wouldn't waste the money on the book.

Justice^^

Oh such a lovely image.

Anyways. I was reading several non-biased reviews for both the film and books and most are like 'it's crap.' and does Bella really say "I'm really the suffer-in-silence type," ???
It's like Meyer is saying 'ooohh look at me, I feel sorry for myself, I'm drowning in self-pity so I'll get everyone else to feel sorry for my main character who I really wish was me.'

oh and this came at the end of a review:
'Ages since a character told the audience she was "unconditionally and irrevocably in love" with a boy. True love should wait more often.'
Yeah it should. Well Meyer is certainly good at getting a strong message across. But it's often a strong harmfull message such as saying to little girls 'yeah it's ok if a guy treats you bad' and 'yeah, popularity is a good thing and ugly people are trash'.
I don't like the messages Meyer sends out and her I-don't-care-how-it-affects-others attitude.

Well, it was a dramatic vid! lol And it burnt well. There was a vid off to the side bar of that one that I started to watch and couldn't even finish after she said "Amaaaaaaazing Book" for about the fourth time. I thought I might hurl my lunch.

Amaaazing Book, How Can You Hate It?

I dare you guys to get through it! The first five people who get all the way through it get five house points, I swear! Yes, it's a bit like asking you to eat a worm. It's that little bit of Slytherin in me.

That... was painful! Utterly painful! Yes, I got through it, Aethonon. It was hard, I was about to throw this laptop across the room at the fish tank. Man, she needs a life.

Anyway, this is going to sound strange, but I hate Twilight and like it at the same time. Is that possible? I don't know, but that's what I feel. I get so fed up when everyone screams about how hot Edward is, or how much they want to be a vampire, blah blah blah. I'd like to throw Breaking Dawn at them. (and then have that creepy girl in the video tell me off).
Stephanie Meyer is setting terrible standards for girls. Bella wants to give up everything for Edward, everything! Young girls are reading this and they will copy her, and worship their boyfriends...
I think the worst thing about the Twilight series is that Bella is soooooo in love with Edward, she almost dies when he leaves her. Grow up, Bella! You hardly knew each other for a year, and here you are going suicidal. It's annoying, it's unrealistic, and most of all, it's setting bad examples.

I will continue my ranting later... Sorry this post is so pitiful. All I can think of is that "Amaaaaaaaaaazing Book" girl...

Very intersting video from the perspective of a very dedicated Twilight fan. Some strong opinions in there very open to discussion. Agree to disagree.

Snapefan, which House are you in?

ROFL

Isn't she scary? Charlie--your comment will be--amaaaaazing!

Ten out of 25 House points gone! Tell me the last thing this crazy chick says and you get the points!

I'm in Slytherin.

She says "Bye. Oh Hi, Rach!"

Um, If I may ask, harryjpotter, what's your username? I want to give you thumbs up!

it seems that in today's world Twilght is the standard of book/writing that is expected which is not a particularly high standard. Yes it is meyer's first publication but there have been so many before her who have produced a classic on the first go.

Yeah, you get 5 points extra!And a jar of dirt! lol

Oh now I feel dumb. OK, so Snapefan answered my question so it can no longer count. I'm dumb--as it would mean that no one else would have to watch. But you do have to watch the entire vid to win. lol Um, just...be honest.

There. Thumbs up. I'd do it again if it was possible...
I thought she was joking in the beginning of the video, but then I realized she was serious. I got pretty offended when she insulted me, the viewer.

Aethonon: Don't feel dumb. It's that girl, messing with our brains.. Thanks for the points. I did watch the video, trust me. My brain hurts.

Respectfully disagreeing with the dedicated fan in the video I would like to register my opinion that in many ways Twilight is a bad influence for the intended audience, i.e. teenage girls in that Meyer's ideas of men and how they treat girlfriends is very negative but alluring. Also that popularity is a good thing and that it is ok to shun people who do not match up to the standards of others.

*shudders* *scrubs eyes, ears, and brain out*

I watched it...I watched the whole thing... What is WRONG with her?! I don't complain specifically about Breaking Dawn, I have to say--I complain about the whole series 'cause it's awful! And thinking of Stephenie Meyer as a "genius" makes me cringe. She's not a genius. She can barely write!

Some people freak me out when they talk about Twilight...(especially when they babble about wanting a "vampire baby...").

Ok so apparently someone leaked Meyer'S latest book and she was too upset to continue - what a wimp! No seriously, Parts of Potters 5 and 6 were leaked after pages were stolen from the publishers but Jo didn't go crying around saying she wasn't going to write anymore! I reckon Meyer is just trying for one big publicity stunt.
The more I hear about Twilight the more I hate it.

I've added in you three for the points!

Still haven't made it through myself. I tried, believe me, I tried. But I had to pull a Charlie and hide at the bottom of the page because I just can't watch her, it's psychologically painful.

Not sure why the whole Midnight Sun leak thing was such a debacle for Stephenie. Here this chick goes postal because someone dares to not like BD, and Stehenie goes postal because parts of her book get leaked. Any word on whether she has 'changed her mind' and decided to go ahead and finish it?

I heard about that...Hmm... That's a good point, maybe Meyer is the one who leaked it and then whined about it just so she can get fans to plead and beg for Midnight Sun. Grrr....
Anyway, continuing my rant...

Bella is so selfless in the books, it makes her selfish. Does that make sense? She gets so complainy about having a birthday party in New Moon, it's like "Be quiet, Bella! We don't care!" She acts as if everyone has to like her and if they don't (i.e. Jessica) she doesn't approve of them.

I really don't care anymore if Meyer finishes the bloody book.

Hahaha Aethonon, it is worth the house points xD

But seriously. Any other author would, yes, have been unhappy about their book leaking but that Meyer is NOT a real writer is reflected in her give-up attitude, her self-pity methods.
Jo would most likely rewritten the story or simply gone ahead anyway. So Meyer only has herself to blame if she is missing out here.

It's not like Midnight Sun would give away any plot, it's just Edward's point of view during Twilight. Which I actually wouldn't mind reading because I can finally get out of Bella's head...
I don't see what the big fuss is because this is obviously for money, it's the same plot with a different main character. Meyer, stop sulking and release the book. We don't want to hear you complain about terrible people who have no respect.

That's the world, my friend, full of disrespect.

Oh goodies I can post again.

I can bet and would bet that meyer will still release it. She'll save it for when the books take a nose-dive in sales and when film/films are out of the limelight. and yeah I agree it's a huge possibility that she herself was in on the leak just for the publicity stunt. Which is a cheap trick and just shows what she thinks of her fans - 'oh I don't have enough fans, I'll get some more by pretending not the release the book and then release it at a later date and that way I'll get more money too.'

harryjpotter, I don't think the books stop being a bestseller for many many many years... They're just so popular. You're on a bus and you look at the person next to you, and they're reading Eclipse. You're in a mall and you walk into a bookstore which is stocked full of Twilight. You're at the dentist, for goodness sake, and you see the hygienist reading New Moon... It's unavoidable, and not going to stop. I was at the bookstore the other day, and I saw Twilight shirts, sweaters, posters, stickers, key chains, bracelets, jewelry boxes, etc. You name it, it's got a Twilight logo on it. There were even Edward action figures!


EDIT:
harryjpotter,
There's actually a place where Twilight flops?!?

Snapefan21 luckily for me in both my countries Tiwlight flopped, both the books and the film. It's annoying though because they still have the huge display in the book shop with a hundred different versions of the books but it's funny to see how long they have been there by the thick layers of dust and the fact no one has touched them.

What is wrong with you people? How can you hate Twilight!!! Geez, don't you know brilliant literature when you see it??? haha, just kidding!

I honestly do enjoy the books I have all four of them and I've read them several times. But... they are not brilliantly written. I take them for face value. They're fun. At least I think they are. There are tons of typos and I remember one part in Breaking Dawn where Stephenie had forgotten something she had written and she wrote it again.

The things that bug me about the books is some of the characters, mainly the leads. Bella really got to me when she kept stringing Jacob along, even thought I couldn't stand Jacob.

Edward bugged me because he's so overbearingly protective and possessive. i would have told him to hit the road and let me live my life. But Bella was so needy that I suppose that's why she and Edward made such a great couple.

My favorite characters by a landslide were Emmett~ The happy-go-lucky, life's a game, big teddy bear brother, and Alice, just because she's so darn cute! Besides that, Kellan Lutz, who plays Emmett in the movie is much hotter than Rob. haha.

But I do appreciate this thread, even though I did enjoy the books. *hides under bed while Charlie throws insults at me* And although the main characters bugged me some, I still love them.

loves and hugs,
~Dayna

PS: I'm scared of the Amaaaazing book girl. What would you do if you saw her outside your window on a dark, stormy night, holding a butcher knife? Yikes, nightmares forever!!!

PPS: Charlie, I couldn't find your comment on the video. I looked for it though.