Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Questions From The Goblet Of Fire
Veritaserum Forums > Books > Wizarding Studies
Triad
During the reread have any questions popped into your head? Anything confused you? If so post it here and see what answers you get!

Personally I'd like to know who invented the Portkey spell. I would imagine it would take someone with a lot of time on their hands so that when they appeared somewhere they didn't recognise they could go back and make alterations to the spell.
ladylila705
Ooh, that's a good one! I want to know that too. I actually would like to know how spells are created in general. I mean, that goes across all of the books, not just this one, but I have wondered that so many times.

Mod Edit: We don't allow short posts in here. Please elaborate in future.
mugglelovrspew
Hmm, that's a good question. I looked on the Harry Potter Wiki site, but I suppose the Lexicon might be a better resource... Wiki says nothing about the origin of the Portkey spell. The only thing known is that a witch or wizard just uses the Portus spell on an object. And from the Encyclopedia of Spells on the Lexicon, nothing is given about the creator either. :/ Oh, well. Sorry I'm no help, but I always research. smile.gif I have a question..

How did Dumbeldore not know that Mad-Eye was Crouch Jr.? I mean, I know he trusts people too easily, but there had to be one time he did something out of place that wasn't like Mad Eye or maybe even didn't take his Polyjuice right on time, couldn't there?
ChannelingGinny
Mugglelovrspew - I thought the same thing! I found it strange that Dumbledore did not realize Mad-Eye was not who he was supposed to be. Perhaps it's because the real Mad-Eye was hired prior to Barty Jr. taking over and Dumbeldore isn't known throughout the series to be overly active in the lives of the professors. Barty Jr obviously needed to convince everyone that he was the real Mad-Eye, and therefore did not want to draw attention to himself. Lucky for him the real Mad-Eye was a bit eccentric, so he wasn't questioned very often on why he did things.

I found it strange that Snape did not complain to Dumbledore when his office had been searched, supposedly under Dumbledore's orders, or at least with Dumbeldore's approval. Snape seemed to speak his mind freely with Dumbledore, so it seemed odd to me that he would not have had something to say on that matter.

As for Barty Jr slipping up with the Polyjuice Potion... Since he had to take it every hour, that would mean EVERY hour, so did he have to wake up during the night, or did he occasionally turn back into Barty Jr while he slept? We learned when Ron and Harry took Polyjuice in CoS (and the "crew" at the beginning of DH) that the change doesn't take very long, so I guess if he did sleep for several hours and he drank the Polyjuice as soon as he woke up it didn't take too long to change back into Mad-Eye.
harrrrynerrrrd
I dont think that Dumbledore trusts too easily. I would just say that he didn't really have a reason to be suspicious of Mad-Eye so he didn't care too much about watching him. And i also think that Barty Jr. would have been super careful about being Mad-Eye in every way since it was his one chance to shine for Voldemort and hopefully become his favorite.

thats a good question about that sleeping thing. i never really thought about that. maybe all the teachers rooms have locks on them or something so he could be Barty sometimes too. now that i think of it though, where do the teachers sleep?

also back to portkeys, how did the triwizard cup magically become a portkey back to hogwarts at the exact moment that Harry needed it?

also i just thought it was interesting how when Harry is talking with Dumbledore at the very end Dumbledore sort of mentions his theories about how Voldemort left a piece of himself with Harry when he tried to kill Harry. Its really cool to see how JKR's plot was so developed that she could hint at the ending in the fourth book.
Just the Droobles
I think if Harry had half a brain, he would take a look at that Marauder's Map more often. Then he would have seen that Barty Crouch Jr. was in the school, and Moody was stationary in the trunk. I mean, after all, he was trying to figure out who put his name in the Goblet, so I would think that might be a good way to spot any funny business.

And for that matter, if I were Harry, I would have stayed awake to watch what dots went to the entrance hall to put their name in. He obviously wasn't going to hang around because the students were sent to bed, so he should have whipped out that map.

Silly people. Making me feel all smart and stuff...
DracosLady
I would also imagine that if Harry spent more time looking at the Marauders Map he would have seen that it was Barty Crouch Jr. lurking around the hallways at night, not Mad Eye Moody. Maybe if Harry had noticed that sooner he could have alerted Dumbledore and they could have rescued Mad Eye from his prison and busted Crouch Jr.

But then again if that would have happened would Cedric Diggory have been saved? As suspicious of a person that Snape is anyway how could he not see right through Crouch's facade? Snape is always the first person to suspect everyone of doing things that they shouldn't be...
Just the Droobles
Well after I posted that post, I read Harry did see Crouch Jr. on the map, but for some stupid reason there wasn't a Jr. on the end of his name. Really? If that map is so accurate, shouldn't it be getting names right too? That was really annoying to me.

I have a question, did we ever find out exactly who all the Death Eaters were? "And here we have six missing Death Eaters...three dead in my service. One, too cowardly to return...he will pay. One, who I believe has left me forever...he will be killed of course...and one, who remains my most faithful servant, and who has already reentered my service."
I know who the last one is...duh. But who are the dead ones and the other two? Anyone know?
ChannelingGinny
QUOTE
"And here we have six missing Death Eaters...three dead in my service. One, too cowardly to return...he will pay. One, who I believe has left me forever...he will be killed of course...and one, who remains my most faithful servant, and who has already reentered my service."

I am not sure who the "three dead in my service" are... I think if we read close enough when JKR is giving background info on minor characters we'd figure out who had been killed. The one too cowardly to return and the one who has left him forever are Snape and Karakoff, but I'm not sure who is who. At first I thought Snape was the one too cowardly to return, but then thought about Karakoff slinking off in the night when the dark mark was getting strong, so figured it must be him. Snape had "left" LV when he found out Lily was targeted, and I'm sure LV knew that in some way. The only reason Snape wasn't killed was because he was a skilled occlumens and could block those thoughts from LV and convinced LV that he was indeed a spy for the LV at Hogwarts.
mugglelovrspew
QUOTE
The one too cowardly to return and the one who has left him forever are Snape and Karakoff, but I'm not sure who is who. At first I thought Snape was the one too cowardly to return, but then thought about Karakoff slinking off in the night when the dark mark was getting strong, so figured it must be him. Snape had "left" LV when he found out Lily was targeted, and I'm sure LV knew that in some way. The only reason Snape wasn't killed was because he was a skilled occlumens and could block those thoughts from LV and convinced LV that he was indeed a spy for the LV at Hogwarts.


QUOTE
"And here we have six missing Death Eaters...three dead in my service. One, too cowardly to return...he will pay. One, who I believe has left me forever...he will be killed of course...and one, who remains my most faithful servant, and who has already reentered my service."


I think the dead ones include Rosier, maybe Regulus Black, because at the time, he didn't know the locket was gone, so maybe he didn't realize that Regulus ever took it, but that's just a theory. Also, Wilkes, a Death Eater who fought and was killed in the First Wizarding War possibly could of been included in that. Other than that, that's all I could come up with through some kind of research.

As to the one too cowardly, I believe that is Karakoff, of course. I believe the one who's most faithful might be Bellatrix. wink.gif And could he have assumed, already at that time that Severus wasn't faithful to him? I always had the feeling that he felt Severus might have some faithfulness left for him, that he wasn't fooled. Otherwise, I don't think he would of revealed information to him. He had, of course, Severus take the seat directly beside him at Malfoy Manor, sooo I'm still trying to work it out, but that's what I've tried to dechiper it as.
Just the Droobles
The most faithful Death Eater was Barty Crouch Jr. because Voldemort explained that that Death Eater was at Hogwarts doing stuff for him.

I feel like they have named a lot of dead Death eaters... maybe not. Maybe some of them claimed to be Death Eaters, and did stuff "for" Voldemort, but Voldemort never accepted them or something. Maybe they didn't have the dark mark. I dunno. Maybe I should go back and count. huh.gif

I think the too cowardly one would be Karkaroff. It makes no sense for that to be Snape. He gets highly offended when Harry calls him a coward. Plus, Snape says Karkaroff fears the Dark Lord's vengeance, and he has betrayed too many of his fellow Death Eaters. Snape has to be the one who has left forever...though if he was sent by Dumbledore to do spy work...you'd think that Voldemort would still be on the fence about that. Or something.
harrrrynerrrrd
At this point I think Voldy would be counting Snape as the one who left forever, since voldemort would know that snape was with dumbledore now. But i also think that Snape went back to Voldy (at dumbledore's request) and after probably some amount of torture or paying in some way, Snape managed to convince Voldy that he was only with dumbledore to spy on him and Harry.
ladylila705
I was wondering something when I was re-reading the end of GOF: If someone is killed while under the disguise of Polyjuice Potion, would the impersonator die, or would the person being impersonated die? I only thought of that because I had wondered about when Snape and Dumbledore came in when Harry was alone with Moody/Crouch Jr. I mean, what if one of them had killed Moody/Crouch Jr.? I know they wouldn't have, but it was just a random thought that crossed my mind.
FollowTheSpiders
Ladylila705 - I'm pretty sure that if you die when you are impersonating someone, then you die, not the person you are impersonating. You are still yourself, just with a different body when you take the polyjuice potion. If someone got killed by the killing curse, then they'd die. If you are that same person, just in disguise, then you'd still get killed.

When I first read ladylila705's question, I was thinking, oh that's easy to answer. But I kept thinking about it and it's really not. Good question!
Just the Droobles
The impostor will die, not the person that is being impersonated. They explained that when Barty Crouch Jr.'s mother went into Azkaban so he could get out, she continued taking Polyjuice potion until the day she died. She was buried as Barty Crouch Jr. and that's how they fooled everyone into believing that he was dead. We know that Crouch Jr. did not die because we saw him later.
ladylila705
Droobles, thank you! I forgot about that part! This entire re-read, I've been taking the books with me to work for slow times, and of course, when I was re-reading the one day this question could have been answered, it was semi-busy so I couldn't pay attention the way I should have!
mugglelovrspew
Alright, so this sort of has relevance to Goblet of Fire, because it's what made me think of the question in the first place.. but then it sort of deals with the whole series, and Half Blood Prince.

So we know that Sirius uses the fireplace in this book to talk to Harry about the Tournament, and that also students are sometimes allowed to go home through the Floo Network during Christmas. Well, why didn't the Death Eaters just use the Floo Network to get into the school? They could have gone through the Slytherin Common Room and attacked. I mean, it's still coming in the school, and it would have been easier.
Linux felicis
DD had gone to lengths to protect the school. Extra protective spells as wells as aurors had been placed in and around Hogwarts to maximise security so I guess that the floo network had been blocked.
Insomnia
mugglelovrspew, that's a good question. I remember when Harry and co. traveled by Floo from the Burrow back to Hogwarts after their Christmas break. It was said that the Floo block, or whatever they called it, was temporarily lifted so that students could return easily without all the hassel of the train or Knight Bus and such. Yet, Sirius was able to contact Harry via Floo during GoF.

Since we know that you can't apparate on or off the grounds of Hogwarts for protective reasons, which is why the DE's weren't able to use it, it stands to reason that there must have always been a block on the Floo Network, too, for the same reason. It wouldn't make sense for there only having been the Floo block for that one particular year when Harry and co. returned during Christmas. To keep unwanted people, including the DE's, out, it seems it would have always been in place just like apparating.

So, how was Sirius able to contact Harry? If it was open enough for him to do that, DE's could have poured into Hogwarts at anytime. Unless DD gave Sirius some password or spell that allowed him to use it?
mugglelovrspew
QUOTE(Insomnia @ Aug 22 2009, 02:13 PM) [snapback]580758[/snapback]

So, how was Sirius able to contact Harry? If it was open enough for him to do that, DE's could have poured into Hogwarts at anytime. Unless DD gave Sirius some password or spell that allowed him to use it?


Now, there's a thought. Maybe Dumbeldore did end up helping Sirius contact Harry, but I don't know why he would of let him do anything that risky... I love it when we find these loopholes in the series, but then I hate it when we can't quite figure them out. I just thought that it was sort of weird. I mean, I know JKR needs her plots and whatnot, but the DE could of attacked much earlier, and Voldemort's not that stupid to not think about using the fireplace...I just want to know how Sirius could have gotten around it.. Possibley because he and the Mauraders knew so many secrets about the castle?
ChannelingGinny
Here's my theory on the whole Floo Network. When the restrictions on the Floo Network were lifted to allow students to return to Hogwarts it was only on the one fireplace in McGonagall's office. That tells me that the rest of the fireplaces were still "sealed" against people traveling by Floo powder. MAYBE, since Sirius wasn't traveling by floo powder, but just communicating by floo powder is how he was allowed to contact Harry.
Witherwings
I agree with Channelling Ginny and everyone else- to me, ever since I read the book (back when I wasn't really smart enough to think for myself), I always believed for some reason that there is a difference between communicating and travelling by Floo Network. I don't think Dumbledore had anything to do with it. I also believe that no matter how hard we try to find loopholes and excuses, it is impossible that JKR would have made zero mistakes in the entire series. I'm sure alot of the things that are discussed online are plainly mistakes. I can't blame her, there is so much information in all the series, even as the author it would be hard to keep up and do the math and all.
ChannelingGinny
QUOTE(harrrrynerrrrd Jul 1 2009 @ 12:41 AM)
also back to portkeys, how did the triwizard cup magically become a portkey back to hogwarts at the exact moment that Harry needed it?


In answering another question in another subject it dawned on me WHY Harry was able to use the portkey to get back to the maze at Hogwarts. In my opinion, it was LVs intention to send Harry back to the maze after he had been killed, so he utilized a "two-way" portkey, one that would allow the user to return to the point of origin. Voldemort got Harry away from Hogwarts via the portkey in such a way that no-one would realize he had gone (during the 3rd task where no-one could see you in the maze). If LV had been able to get Harry's blood for the potion, kill Harry and return him to Hogwarts then no-one would have missed Harry and they wouldn't suspect that he had been killed by LV, everyone would have guessed he died within the maze as part of the 3rd challenge.

I don't know if JKR ever mentioned a "two-way" portkey, but there's no reason a powerful wizard such as LV couldn't modify a spell to allow a portkey be used to return to the point of origin (or to a secondary location).
Just the Droobles
Are portkeys useless after they have traveled to their first destination? That's a serious question...

Maybe I'm a little clueless on how they're supposed to work, but perhaps portkeys could transport people back and forth between two locations as many times as they needed to go. Course, that doesn't make any sense cause they collected all the portkeys at the Triwizard Tournament after people have arrived... I think a good question would be (if portkeys can be used more than once) how come the portkey didn't take Harry back to where he initially grabbed it?

All in all, I have no answer to the question... shutup.gif
Harry James Potter
that's a really good question aubrey. My guess is that either they have a "reset time," in which they become live again after a period of time. Or that you can make a one-way portkey and a two-way portkey. But I don't really think JKR ever shed light onto this issue.

-Nick
HJP
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2009 Invision Power Services, Inc.