I don't even know if everyone is caught up or who's even paying attention anymore, but I've got a question!!!!

I'm still reading (on the chapter called King's Cross) but I'm pretty positive that Harry's Invisibility Cloak is the Cloak of Invisibility (redundant, eh?). So. If the Cloak of Invisibility is supposed to make the wearer completely invisible and no spells or whatever can harm it or the wearer, how come Mad-Eye Moody/Barty Crouch Jr. could see through the Cloak in GoF? And didn't JKR hint that Dumbledore could also see through the Cloak? What's going on here?

Just the Droobles, I think we might've found a place where she truly faltered.. but probably not, ha. I don't think Dumbeldore's magic would ever be able to fool Death, and the eye wasn't harming it.. So, maybe good magic can see it through it as long as you're not trying to harm it?

I have a question. During the battle at the end, it said that Charlie, I believe, was cornering Slughorn, but then a page or two later, it says that Slughorn was fighting along side McGonagall and Sprout, I believe, against Voldemort. So, does that mean Slughorn was on our side or the dark side?

I thought that when i first read the book, but after re-reading that part a few times it says that charlie overtakes slughorn. I'm pretty sure it means they are both running to battle and charlie runs past him, so when it says "overtakes" it means he runs towards battle with him, just faster. Slughorn was always on the orders side; he was just scared to publicly take sides with them so he wouldn't be a target. Once the final battle is underway there is no reason to stay neutral anymore.

Good thinking Just the Droobles! You made me remember the scene where Dumbledore dies. He immobilizes Harry who is under the cloak so the wearer is clearly not impervious to spells.

You know I didn't even remember that scene, but if the eye wasn't enough evidence for continuity issues with the cloak, I think that the full-body bind curse is good evidence. Do you think that she could have possibly meant it only blocks out Dark or harmful Magic?

Perhaps, in regards to the cloak, if your intentions are good then the spell will go through, but if you mean the person harm the cloak will protect you. Kind of like Harry's wand, it recognised Voldemort and used his own magic against him. The cloak might be able to recognise 'nice' or helpful magic and let it through.

But then on the train Harry is wearing it when Draco immobilises him. So perhaps my theory is wrong. But then nothing about this cloak makes sense! Unless when it was created it was only created to keep out the spells that were around back then, not the newer ones or upgraded ones of today.

The Cloak does have a lot of holes doesn't it? She really should have thought it through more before adding it in.

Sorry, i may be remembering wrong, but i dont think it ever says that cloak makes you impervious to spells. You have all been mentioning examples of how its not, and harry also says that when talking about his parents not having the cloak the night voldemort attacked. So I dont think it ever shows any examples or mentions that the cloak makes the wearer impenetrable to spells. If it says that somewhere can someone please let me know and give the page number? Thanks

Xenophilius Lovegood thought it was spell proof.



We really need JK to come out and explain the cloak. Maybe it will be in the HP encyclopedia or whatever it is she's supposedly writing.

I'm sure this has been answered in other threads but did we ever find out how Regulus Black knew about, and managed to obtain, one of Voldies Horcruxes? Considering Lucius didn't know about them how the heck did Regulus?

I'm sorry, but I don't know the answer to your regulus question. I would like to respond to your post from the book about the cloak. I am not going to post your quoted text from the book because it is right there above me...but i would llike to give my point of view on the matter.

First off, thanks for posting that part Triad. However, if you read it closely you can clearly see that xenophilius only ever mentions that the cloak will always keep the wearer invisible no matter what spells is cast at it. The way I interpret this is that no spell can cause this cloak to become un-invisible. For example, if an anti-dissilusionment charm was cast it would not effect Harry's cloak, but other spells not designed to make the wearer visible
(stupefy, expelliarmus, avada kedavra, imperius, crucio, etc...) would be able to get through the cloak and do just as much damage as they would in normal circumstances. Like I said, I feel pretty confident that this is what is meant by xeno's comments and I would like to hear what you all have to say about it

I see what you're saying there, lancelot243, but that still leaves a few questions.

First off, the Charm that does not work on the Cloak is a Summoning Charm. I do think this supports your theory. While the Death Eater was not trying to make the Cloak appear, say with one of the revalio spells, it still would have uncovered Harry. So...that's right.

However, if the Cloak really did give "constant impenetrable concealment," then I do not believe that Mad-Eye's eye should have been able to see through the Cloak at all. Also, how do we explain that it seemed as though Dumbledore could always see through the Cloak?

hmm...thats a good point with the accio cloak, i never thought of that. However, the cloak could have had an anti-summoning spell cast on it (as do all the horcruxes and many other things throughout the book). Also, we are never really sure how mad-eyes eye works. Its never revealed or examined. That eye is almost definitely a unique item so it may be the only thing in the wizarding world that can see through the cloak.

Also, I don't think dumbledore could see through the cloak, it just made him seem more powerful or clever or whatever. I think he just always seemed to be able to see through it because he knew harry had the cloak.

P.S. Do you think that if harry ron and hermione were wearing the cloak at xenos house when the death eaters did the homenum revelio(sp?) would the spell have known they were there? I am saying it wouldnt have found them if they had the cloak on.

No, no, the Accio Cloak thing supports your theory that You can cast spells against the Cloak as long as the spells aren't going to reveal the wearer. The reason the Summoning Charm didn't work was because it would have made Harry visible.

Do you think that there was any way that Dumbledore could sense Harry? Or would that go against the "impenetrable concealment?"

If the Cloak was truly impenetrable, then no, I don't think that the homenum revelio thing would have revealed them. Course, if they were on the second floor, and the Death Eater was on the ground level...if all the floors were clear, wouldn't the spell be able to see up the Cloak? Kind of like up a dress? Does that make sense?

I've always wondered that about the cloak myself. I do believe that Dumbledore because of his magical wisdom and such could see under the cloak. Not any other person could sense Harry under the cloak at all. They may have been able to "feel" as if there was something in the room with them when Harry was under the cloak but no I don't think anyone other than Dumbledore would have been able to "see" or"sense" HArry at all. Maybe the cloak di not respond to the "Accio" spell because Harry was the true owner of it and the cloak knew this and did nothing so as not to reveal Harry's presence.

I just thought of something. Yes the cloak is called impenetrable but it may not necessarily be. Remember that the elder wand is called the unbeatable wand but it is not actually unbeatable. So maybe its just an awesome invisibility cloak that is near perfect but not quite, just like the wand. Remember that the story of the deathly hallows is just that, a story, so the powers of the cloak could very likely have been exaggerated and it is actually just a really good cloak.

I don't think DD could see through the cloak in Philosopher's Stone. Remember that Harry believed at the end that DD kind of "set things up" for Harry to try? DD was anticipating Harry finding the mirror.

DD gave him the cloak, so he would have been alert to its use. DD wouldn't have been able to see him, but would have seen the door move as Harry came in the room and also heard Harry (Harry was being noisyj. Mostly though, even though he couldn't see Harry, he would have seen THROUGH Harry to the mirror and seen what Harry was looking at. He knew Harry's parents....he would have known right away who it was.

I agree with pretty much everything you said except I'm pretty positive that the mirror doesnt work like that. DD would not have seen what Harry saw, he would have seen his own wishes. The fact that Harry was invisible does not mean DD would have seen the same thing.

The cloak of invisibility is exactly what the name suggests. I've been racking my brains, and believe me it took days, and I ended up to the conclusion that the only spell that the cloak can resist, is the summoning one although Harry can perform accio under the cloak. Remember how the alarm went off when the trio apparated under the cloak in Hogsmead? It can be detected just fine.
As for having the ability to detect spells with "good" intentions, "good" depends which side you're on. Anyway, let's not forget that Harry performed an unforgivable curse (imperio) under it on a wizard while going to rob Gringot's. An unforgivable curse is also what its name suggests like Moodey demonstrated in his first lesson.The deathly hallows are neither bad nor good.
Don't underestimate the power of becoming invisible! It would surely have helped the Potters survive the night of the attack very simply because Voldemort would have missed and they'd have had a chance to run for it.

My two-cents on the cloak - I too, was wondering about if the Invisibility cloak could have blocked out any type of spells, but I think that it only blocks out any spell that would reveal the wearer, thus "accio cloak" would not have worked if it meant revealing the wearer. However, when the DEs went to the Lovegood's, they only did a homoneum revelo (not sure of the spelling) which lets them know whether or not there is human presence there... it does not reveal WHERE the humans are, just that there are people there, so the cloak could still hide the wearer, just not reveal WHERE the wearer is.

As for if DD could "see" Harry or not, I think DD just had very powerful magic and was such a gifted wizard that he could "know" if Harry was there or not. Remember when they were in the cave to get the Horcrux... DD just had to feel around to know where the door was and where the boat chain was. He couldn't see anything, but could tell that there were traces of magic there. Perhaps, he could just tell when there was magic about.

To answer Triad's question about how RAB knew about the Horcrux... remember, it was Kreacher that went with LV to hide the horcrux, so that is how he knew where it was. And maybe LV bragged to Kreacher about what it was, never imagining that he would escape the cave and return to the Black's. Perhaps, as it was suggested, that since RAB was part of the inner-circle and he had actually paid attention to what was going on around him he had figured out what LV was up to and did some investigating on his own. Lucius was self-serving and only did things that would ensure his safety. Paying attention to what the Diary was, IF it were ever mentioned, doesn't sound like something Lucius would do. This is pure conjecture on my part, as I'm not 100%... but I may just go back and re-read "Kreacher's Tale" to see if it says anything concrete.

Now, I have a question... If "Voldemort" was taboo, and would negate any protective charms (which is how the snatchers found the trio in the forest), why did the protective charms of #12 Grimmauld Place not disappear whenever any of the trio said "Voldemort" while they were staying there?

Question: Does it say anywhere in the book when the Taboo was placed on the name? Cause it could have been placed on the name after they left Grimmauld Place...

No this is not a short post. I totally have more than three lines. I've been here for 4 years why on earth would I do something like that...?

No, the taboo was already in place while they were at grimmauld place because they were found on tottenham court road because they said voldemort. I think I have the answer to the grimmauld place question that i will answer in a roundabout way. Remember how there were death eaters constantly outside grimmauld place while they were there? Also, remember that at times there were more than other times. I would be willing to bet that the death eaters knew the trio was at grimmauld place because they kept saying voldemort. They were able to breakdown almost all of the concealments except the fidelus charm. The fidelus charm can only be broken when a secret keeper reveals the location. Since none of the death eaters were secret keepers they were not able to gain acces into 12 grimmauld place, but they were just waiting outside because they knew the trio was there because of the taboo. This theory fits because they probably just had two or three stationed there all the times, but when someone said voldemort again more would show up because it would reaffirm that harry ron and hermione were there. Hope this answers your question sufficiently

I am still on OotP, so forgive me if I'm wrong here. Being that Harry and Sirius were so close, why didn't Harry and Ginny name one of their kids after him? I know they used part of Dumbledore's and Snape's names, but why not Sirius? Like I said, I could be completely wrong on them not using Sirius's name (I've only read DH all the way through once).

ladylila705 - They did, their first son was named James Sirius and their second son was named Albus Severus. I think their daughter was Lily Luna (almost as bad as Renesme, but I digress).

lancelot243 - I think your explanation makes perfect sense. I think there were usually 2-3 DEs posted outside Grimmauld Place, but the time when there were several was on September 1 (I think they actually thought the Trio would go back to Hogwarts ). I'm not sure if Snape was able to tell them a general location for #12 Grimmauld Place, or if they suspected Harry would be there since Sirius had left the house to him (that info would have been public knowledge because of the will). I know the Order was worried about Snape revealing the location of #12, since he was a secret Keeper once DD had died.

That's another question I did not understand... after DD died and all who had knowledge of #12 Grimmauld Place were then Secret Keepers, if Snape was a secret keeper for #12 Grimmauld Place, how did the DEs and Voldemort not have access to it? Was Snape not able to reveal it because of the jinx Mad-Eye had put on it, or was there another reason?

I think Snape was perfectly able to reveal the location, but since it was not in Order's best interest, he came up with an excuse for Voldemort. Maybe he said that DD had appointed a new Secret Keeper before his death, and there was no one to compare the authenticity of the information with, since he was the only "bad" guy who had knowledge of Grimmauld's Place. Or he could have mentioned Moody's jinx.

Or maybe Voldemort never really knew (nor had been told) that Snape had gone so far to have the actual access to the Order's headquarters, since he was aware that DD was cautious after all. (D.A.D.A.)

Personally I think Renesmee is worse but mabe that´s just me.

That's another question I did not understand... after DD died and all who had knowledge of #12 Grimmauld Place were then Secret Keepers, if Snape was a secret keeper for #12 Grimmauld Place, how did the DEs and Voldemort not have access to it? Was Snape not able to reveal it because of the jinx Mad-Eye had put on it, or was there another reason?

I think I agree that Snape would probably try to keep that info hidden since as we now know Sanpes alligance was always more with The Order rather then the Death Eaters(also he certanly didn´t want Lilly to die).

Although Voldemort could probably eigher given him veritaserum or tortured him for info I think Voldemort trusted Snape enough to belive he´s not hiding such crucial information from him.

This question came into my mind each time I read DH and thanks to you I finally found an answer And I agree with you; surely Snape deluded Voldemort that he couldn't reveal Grimmauld Place whereabouts. After all, he was a great Legilimens.

And here's my question~

How did Gryffindor's sword fell onto Neville's head when the sword was stolen by Griphook? And what opinion do you have on Griphook's story about Godric Gryffindor who was supposed to have stolen the sword from Ragnuk the first??

As for my answer, I believe that DD did powerful magic on the sword so that it could always be back at Harry or on Harry's aid. Or maybe it's true that the sword could be pulled out only for a true Gryffindor...?
And about Ragnuk and Godric, I believe ..nothing :| Dunno, I wouldn't like to think that Godric stole it It..would be a shame, honestly.

MoonFighter - remember when the trio was at Shell Cottage plotting their next move? Bill pulled Harry aside and warned him that goblins had different views on ownership of goblin-made items. The goblins believed that the true owner of an item was the goblin that made it, and that anyone else was merely "renting" it. As with Aunt Muriel's tiara - Griphook was unhappy that she even owned it. In his view, once the person who had "rented" it from the goblin (ie, bought it from the goblin) had died, then the item should have been returned to the goblin instead of being passed down to another family member.

SO, my thoughts on Gryffindor's sword is that as far as wizards (and muggles for that matter) are concerned, the sword belongs to Gryffindor (and subsequently his descendants). But, the goblins believe that the sword should have returned to goblin-ownership once Godric Gryffindor had died. I think because the sword was in fact Godric Gryffindor's that is why any member of Gryffindor House can retrieve it when truly in need. I think that is why Neville was able to get it when the Sorting Hat was placed on his head, just a repeat of what happened to Harry on CoS. However, I think he could have gotten it another way if push came to shove, but JKR wrote it this way!

Oh, I see. So this proves that goblins are some nasty creatures Not really nasty, but unpleasant, I suppose
But really I was surprised to see Gryffindor's sword fell onto Neville's head O.o I thought Harry had managed without knowing to grip the sword before Griphook Silly me ^^" Thanks

Okay, here's my other questions (since I'm re-reading DH, I need to clarify them )

Remeber the chapter "Bathilda's Secret"? Well, Bathilda was Nagini and only Harry could understand it. BUT! When they stopped in entrance hall, Bathilda called out to them "Come!" and Hermione didn't react. And she doesn't know Parseltongue. Well, indeed she winked at Bathilda's voice, but no further reaction. Is it a mistake of Mrs. JKR or Hermione did heard Parseltongue but took it as a muttering from Bathilda?


And from the "The Silver Doe" chapter, there is a interesting contradiction. Like, for example - Hermione's spells over their tent should protect them from outsiders, but when Harry left it and went after the doe, he could find it easily and brought Ron with him. And soon after that, Ron admitted that he couldn't find their tent and that the spells were really working! Now...how comes that? Harry finds it, but Ron doesn't.


and


These two fragments seem very contradictory and all in all, why could Harry enter the protected space and Ron not?

The only answer that comes to me is that Mrs. JKR did this only for the plot, forgetting something so minor. What about you?

Well, I don't see anything strange here. Hermione did react. The reason why she jumped, and Harry didn't is probably because all she could hear was "hisssss" (and she was probably thinking "huh?" and then finally took it as a muttering I guess). And we know how people who don't speak Parseltongue percieve that sound because it was explained by Dumbledore in the HBP when Bob Ogden was in the "visit" to Little Hangleton (well, somewhere near), and Marvolo and Morfin were talking in Parseltongue among themselves (Bob was also really scared).

EDIT: I'm not sure if I completely understood your first question, sorry if I answered something you didn't really ask. xD


And, about the second question - I think the crucial thing is the fact Harry knew the exact location of the tent, since he just came out of there. If Hermione had moved the tent in the meanwhile (even for 2 meters), I think Harry wouldn't be able to find it also. And Ron didn't know the exact location, he was just wandering around, and hence couldn't see them. Nor the tent. Sort of like Fidelius charm I guess.

Thanks for the answer I've taken Hermione's reaction as nothing as a reaction similar to those who hear Parseltongue ^^" That's why I was like "huh? " But after reading your answer, I'm more sure that Hermione heard hisses, but since Harry assured her that's okay, she took it at muttering
Thanks again



It's still confusing. Though I get your point and it's the most viable. It was very confusing for me when I read that Harry could enter so easily and Ron was wandering blindly around them
Thanks for this answer too

Another way Harry and Ron could have found their way back was that there was snow on the ground, so perhaps they followed Harry's footprints. I am sure, with his excitement of seeing the doe, that he did not think to obliterate his footprints in the snow (remember in OotP that's how Umbridge knew someone was at Hagrid's house, so when the trio returned to the castle Hermione was sure to wipe their prints from the snow).

Also... Perhaps, if you are the caster of a protective spell then you are able to get through the protections? Throughout the trio's "woodland wanderings" they took turns going out for food, so whoever went out had to be able to find the tent when they returned. Just a thought.