I've just been re-reading Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, and something's come up which I haven't been able to come up with a rational explanation for. When Harry, Ron, Hermione, Luna, Ginny and Neville go to the Ministry of Magic in London after the thestral ride, why is there no-one in the Ministry of Magic? People work day and night in the ministry - some people must have night shifts etc. and even if they didn't, then thinking about the extent of the ministry some people who are just on the off chance are working a bit of overtime must be around. And if it is night, then why is none of the Order guarding the door to the Department of Mysteries? Why are there no unspeakables in there? It says when they come down in the phonebox lift that their wands are required for inspection, but there is no security guard? That is a 24 hour job surely? I find this lack of people kind of disturbing and I thought it would be expalined, but I see no explanation as to why there is nobody around? Interested to know your thoughts.

I've been rereading 5 and 6 this summer too, and this also caught my attention. Admittedly, I wish JKF would have explained but here's my best guess.

We see that Malfoy, Bella and others are already surrounding Harry and Co. when he removes the prophesy so we can assume they've been in the MoM since before Harry's crew arrived. I figured they imperioused everyone else to simply leave the areas they needed (the security desk, main hall and Department of Mysteries at least) Hypothetically since the Ministry is so huge I guess there could have been folks working in the offices on different floors who may never have noticed the battle going on. Just a thought.

p.s. I'm still stewing over you other question about the Aurors. Don't know if there's a good answer for that one.

Yes possibly, but then if they can imperius everyone in the ministry then who cares about the prophecy? You'd have a whole army at your disposal. And people must be coming and going all the time through the atrium? Don't mean to shoot down your idea i'm just try to make sense of this - i can't make head or tail of it
Thanks

No offense taken at all. None of us have the RIGHT answers, we can only debate things cordially knowing that we'll never really know.

I was merely suggesting it wouldn't be too difficult for the ten or so Death Eaters to imperious any workers who might be in the atrium or at security at the time of their arrival. Anyone within eye contact could be directed to leave the building. Don't think the Death Eaters would want an army because it wouldn't be a neat and clean operation with that many imperioused people hanging around to get Harry. The Death Eaters probably wanted to be in and out quickly without mess, and without drawing too much attention.


At that hour I'm not sure there were that many people coming and going. Wizards seem to keep the same business hours as Muggles. However we hear Harry question why there is absolutely no one - so we can assume the Death Eaters had something to do with the emptiness - but how they did it I don't know.

That's some pretty good speculation, i'm impressed. Well that sounds fairly reasonable, my only question is if they can imperius everyone out of the way why didn't Voldemort come himself? If there's no-one in the way? Seems a little pointless to lure Harry there if Voldemort can come and do it instead.

Love your puppet pals! But how does someone always wind up without clothes in their skits? Anyway that's off topic.

If it was so easy for the DE's to clear the way, I have no idea why Voldemort didn't just go get the prophesy himself. I agree with you 150% on that point!

OoTP is still one of my favorite HP books, even with all of its unanswered questions and, dare I say, flaws. The MoM chapters still get my pulse racing every time.

Haha yes they are good aren't they?
Well I guess that question remains unanswered
Yes I agree, despite the very annoying Umbridge. I love the magical fights in general, but yes the one in OotP is particularly good i agree

I dont think the ministry was empty, but if there are 20 or so workers in their offices at that time than its not surprising at all they never saw anyone. The death eaters could take the chance that no one would see harry and his friends (after they stunned/imperiused the guard) but they weren't going to take the chance that someone wouldn't happen to pass by while voldemort was in the ministry. Also, dont forget that one of the focuses of voldemort is capturing and killing harry. So by making harry go get it he can finally get to harry without dumbledores or his parents protection. Voldemort was trying to be cautious and keep it to where the minisrty and most of the wizarding world still doesnt know hes back, but hes also trying to get harry, so by making harry go get the prophecy hes killing two birds with one stone, hes planning on capturing harry and getting the prophecy. But hes also keeping his existence secret.

Ah I see. Sorry I was under the impression that the sole intention of the plan was to get the prophecy. But if he was trying to lure Harry out of Hogwarts then that seems okay. I still don't understand why Voldemort didn't come himself though - if ten high security wanted Death Eaters can get into the Department of Mysteries without being noticed, i'm pretty sure Voldemort could. After all, didn't Voldemort always want to kill Harry himself?

Voldemort definitely could have gotten in. It just wasn't worth the risk of him being captured. Im sure his plan was for his death eaters to get the prophecy, capture harry, and give them both to him. Then voldemort would be able to do what he wanted with both of them. However, harry thwarted him once again.

Just seems silly, if the Death Eaters are able to Imperius eveyone out of the Atrium, then why not do that, send a messenger back to Voldemort to say the coast is clear, then get Voldemort to come himself. Then he wouldn't have been captured, and he also would have been able to go there himself.

I dont think the death eaters would dare try and imperius every one out of the ministry, even if they could. It would be difficult to control that many people (perhaps impossible), they were just betting that no one besides the security guard would happen to pass through the atrium this late at night. And as i was saying, a main part of voldemorts plan was to capture harry not just the prophecy. By going there he wouldnt be able to capture harry. Remember that at this point in the book voldemort thinkd that harry is just an average teenager. He overlooks the fact the a 15 year old would have any chance against an army of his death eaters. It is this same arrogance from voldemort we see over and over again, when his boat doesnt pick up underage magic or house elves and when he kills harrys parents. Voldemort was always ignorant of types of magic he wasnt good at, and therefore he just assumed he was to good for it. This is what led to his downfall and it was the same thing in the ministry. Does that make sense?

It does, but I think I can pick some holes in your theory.



I take from this that you are assuming that the security guard was the only person in the Atrium? In which case the death eaters could have gone ahead, Imperiused the guard, sent a messenger back to Voldemort saying that the coast is clear, leaving the way clear for Voldemort to get into the Ministry.



I don't really understand this - Voldemort could have still have planted the vision in Harry about Sirius, luring Harry there but guaranteeing him getting the prophecy (as he could take it himself), and also pretty much guaranteeing him a captured Harry, (seeing as his magic is, of course, much superior to Harry's) so there is a much better chance of getting Harry if he went there himself.



I still think he would have gone there himself - as we can see from the previous and future books, Voldemort likes to add a personal touch when dealing with Harry Potter eg in GoF he insists on using Harry for his regenration despite being perfectly able to use any other wizard. I think if Harry Potter was going to be there he would have wanted to be the one who captured him. After all, he has defied him four times before, I think that he wouldn't have wanted to put the responsibility on his Death Eaters after seeing how good he is at getting out of tight spots. I don't think he would have wanted to run the risk. I think he would have wanted to do it himself to guarantee the capture. Anyway, the excuse Bellartrix uses is that he doesn't come because he 'can't just stroll into the ministry when they are so sweetly denying his return'. If your theory had been true, then she would have said something like: 'The Dark Lord doesn't want to bother himself with pesky teenagers when he has much better things to do'.
Let me know what you think.

Yes, I am assuming that the security guard was the only person in the atrium, but if people were working late in their offices than they could have walked through the atrium at anytime and if they happened to see voldemort walking through than that would be very bad for the death eaters. If they were walking through the atrium and saw harry walking through than it wouldnt be a big deal, if anything harry would get in trouble.



Well that is exactly what he did. He planted the vision in harry, and he showed up at the ministry to kill him. He sent harry to do his dirty work and then he was waiting for him at the exit to kill him until dumbledore showed up.




As i said above, he did end up going there himself. You are right about the personal touch which is why i am sure he told his death eaters to capture but not kill harry. And about voldemort seeing how good harry is at getting out of tight spots. Im sorry but i think you are off base here, voldemort refuses to believe harry is anything except very lucky all the way up until he dies in DH. Voldemort underestimates harry because he is just a teenager and he refuses to believe that harry is anything special

I'm pretty sure if anyone entered the Atrium during the short time Voldemort was in there then i'm confident The Dark Lord and ten of his supporters could dispatch a couple of (probably tired) stragglers. In fact, i think they would have relished the opportunity.



What I was saying was why didn't he go to the Ministry before Harry and his friends got there with his supporters? He could have definitely got the prophecy, and killed Harry before he even left the Department of Mysteries. I see you you say that "He sent harry to do his his dirty work", but it's not exactly difficult. All he needed to do was take the prophecy off the shelf. I doubt he would have risked not getting the prophecy just because he was too lazy to reach up and take the prophecy off the shelf.



I agree, but why not go there before and just Avada Kedavra him as he stepped into the Department of Mysteries? I agree with what you say about Harry and his luck. Yes, Voldemort does believe that Harry is just a lucky teenager. But by that point he has been defied four times by luck, so I think Voldemort, even though he thinks Harry is an average teenager, understands how much luck Harry does have, and, like I said, how good he is at getting out of tight situations. So i think, for this reason, he would have wanted to not take any chances, take the prophecy himself and kill Harry as he comes through the door to the Department of Mysteries. Makes more sense. Be interested to hear what you think.

Im not going to bring up the other points you made because it just seems like we are going in a circle. There are many different ways voldemort and his death eaters could have gone about this. All of them seem equally effective and they had to pick one.

As for the quote above, i think you overestimate voldemort, or perhaps underestimate him, it all depends on how you look at it. Voldemort values nothing except extraordinary magical skills, and if you just see harry through someone else's eyes who is not close to him he does not seem to have any extraordinary powers. Yes, we all see harrys great strength but voldy does not see this. He underestimates any wizard who is not of age. This seems like a huge weakness. So why did i say you may be underestimating voldy? Well its because if he did value children and house elves and goblins and things like that than he wouldnt be as ruthless and as powerfully dark as he is.

His pride and his prejudice against harry are what causes him to believe that harry is easy to capture and that is why he doesnt feel the need to capture him himself, he believes his death eaters are more than capable of taking down a 15 year old. obviously he is wrong, and if he could he would probably go about it differentl; hindsight is 20/20