It has been brought up a couple of times that by killing DD Snape will become the right hand man and that is a great position for him to be in to help the Order, but there is a serious character flaw with Snap that I think we should remember. Snape loves power. He loved the dark arts because it made him powerful, he became a Death Eater in the first place to be in power, he told Voldy about the prophecy to gain power, the way he always treated Harry was about power. I also don’t think it is a coincidence that in a book called the Half Blood Prince, the one that turns out to be the Half Blood Prince and liked to call himself a prince becomes number two Death Eater.

Also, as far as DD asking Snape to kill him goes, if Snape really was as close to DD as some assume then Snape would have said no. Harry only force-feed DD the potion in the cave after DD assured him that while it might make him wish he was dead, the potion would not kill him. If DD did ask Snape to kill him then Draco is still ‘innocent’ but still under Voldy’s boot, Snape is in the best place he could be to help the Order but no one in the Order will ever believe that he is still ‘good’ Hogwarts and the Order are leaderless and don’t even get me started on DD and Harry- I mean what are we left with?

Finally, if I’m wrong and Snape did kill DD on DD’s orders I still think Snape is a slimy and miserable person who should suffer a gruesome and terrible death for what he did. If you cant tell I am still a little bit bitter about the whole thing…

I think it is as possible that Snape is still good that Dumbledor didn't indeed deceive the death eaters and snape.

Both could be true. Dumble could have had a Horux or whatever and faked his death to more deffectively destroy the evil. Snape could have been in on it too, using a silent summoning spell summoning a lifelike fake body, Polyjuiced (can you poly juice post mortem) making Aragog Dumbledor.

While highly improboble and having just pulled this out of my right ear just now, JK could use this or something simaler.

Snape killing Dumbledore is a highly ambiguous part of the book!!
To begin with...almost all of us think that Snape either did this intensionally...meaning that Snape wanted to kill Dumbledore because...obviously he was following Voldemort's orders...or maybe because Dumbledore wanted Snape to kill him...i know this sounds super, ultra, mega wierd...but anyways...when i first read the part when Dumbledore was pleading, 'Severus...please', this could imply that Severus please do not hesitate and kill me before it's too late...or Severus what's gotten into you...come over to the good side!!

Now...there can be another possibility why Snape killed Dumbledore...and i think this really makes sense...so please bear with me!!

Snape made an unbreakable vow with Draco's mother...that he would not let any harm befall on Draco...and if this happended...Snape would die!! Lord Voldemort had ordered Draco to kill Dumbledore...he hadn't succeeded this far...and we all know that it was impossible for Draco to kill Dumbledore using the Avada Kedavra curse!! So in other words...Draco had failed Voldemort meaning that he would die...which will also make Snape die!! Obviously Snape didn't want to die because of an unbreakable vow...hence he killed Dumbledore himself!!

so...what do you think??

i thought it was an awfully simple ending to supposedly the greatest wizard of all time. i new dumbledore was going to die, because it would be the final straw for harry who would then kill voldemort in revenge. dumbeldores weakness was to see the full potential and best in people, he was able to forgive. he saw the best person in snape and trusted him because of that, although his reason to forive snape was crud. lol. i just thought it was so sad how harry said dont worry professer it will be ok, and dumbeldore said im not worried harry im with you,. then he died

Dumbledore is dead, no doubt about that - but it doesnt mean that he wont be giving out any advice next year, his portrait is still on the wall in the office at hogwarts and its not like the other former headmasters and headmistresses really keep quiet!!

i'm still in 2 minds about snape - i mean yeah he's evil and i hope he gets his cumuppence in the next one but his motivations for killing dumbledore may not be purely because he wanted to kill him. in fact i think his reasons are totally selfish - firstly, draco obviously couldnt do it which would put him in serious trouble with voldemort, snape had made an unbreakable vow to narcissa to do it for him if draco couldnt. therefore, if snape didnt do it, he would have died!! secondly, dumbledore couldnt have been lookin too healthy, and was actually pleadin with snape - somethin not very characteristic of dumbledore. so snape thinks to himself that if he turns around and blasts the hell out of all these death eaters and thus incurs the wrath of voldemort, dumbledore doesnt look like he's in any position to help or shelter him does he?!! plus, he still would have died from breaking the vow... so in my opinion snape did it purely to save his own skin!

also, does anyone else think that snape was actually opening harry's mind in occlumency last year or do we think snape gonig back to voldemort is a recent thing?

It is mean, though, that Rowling wrote chapter two on a way that we couldn't be for sure yet if he was good or evil. I always thought that Snape wasn't all pure good, but I didn't thought he was pure evil too. Now... I still don't know. It seems so weird. First we don't see anything that points to Snape as a real Death Eather. If it does slightly, like in book one, it is cleared in the final chapters. I don't understand why Snape didn't give Harry a much worse punishment when he almost killed off Draco Malfoy, that was a little odd, maybe enough for me to think that he had still good in his heart. But I'm starting to think that Draco is really the victim and Snape everything else. Draco didn't murdered Dumbledore. He wanted to do it, I guess, but he couldn't, maybe somewhere he didn't even wanted it. But Snape didn't even speak to Dumbledore. Makes it less painful, that can be, but still...
Dumbledores death didn't come as a shock to me. He was on the American cover, and a character (outside Harry Potter) almost always die. Caleb, book four, Sirius, book five, Dumbledore, book six... Not only because of that, I just knew it somewhere. I was hoping it could wait till book seven, but then I knew Harry needed the push sometime before that. It's such a shame that Snape is really gone... It was obvious that he was the Half-Blood Prince, though. If you read the end op chapter nine, read that he is the new DADA teacher...
And somewhere I think Dumbledore had made too much mistakes. Snape, not telling Harry everything before Sirius died... It was so sad with the water, though...
I was shocked by the reaction of Harry... Harry'd really changed. Not much Sirius thoughts, Caleb thoughts, Cho thoughts or Dumbledore thoughts now he's dead...
Yeah, I know, I have to many thoughts!

''Snape is reluctant to make the final vow. I also see Dumbledore's plea not for mercy but a plea for Snape to kill him so that Draco would not be a murderer. After all that was the whole reason for Dumbledore's prolonged speech to Draco, "Don't kill me, Don't be a murderer, We can help you, we can hide you."' -Newbie

'Hagrid told them that Dumbledore and Snape had gotten into a fight and Snape was angry. Maybe Dumbledore told Snape do obey his orders without question, as he did with Harry. "Do what ever I tell you." Harry was upset about these orders and maybe so was Snape.' -Mattman91

I completly agree with both of you.

Were going through reading our sixth book of Harry Potter installment now, and through out the series Dumbledore's divine wisdom outshined everything. Now we know Dumbledore couldn't have believed a simple tale from Snape while Voldermort was in power before the incident with baby Harry. Snape overheard the Prophecy and immediately scattered off to tell Voldermort about it. In the book it said shortly after he came back to Dumbledore begging for forgiveness and wanting to cleanse his soul of his dirty sins, which ultimately lead up to Harry's parents demise. We KNOW Dumbledore isn't stupid, he definately had to have something more solid then this. And I want to add while Dumbledore was in the Cave with Harry his character attitude was changing, more impatient and rushful, because he knew what was going to be happening at Hogwarts while he was away.

Throughout the last couple of book's Dumbledore has kind of been hinting to his death, telling Harry things like I'm getting to old ect...

"Dark and difficult times lie ahead of us all Harry, soon we all must all face the choice between what is right, and what is easy."
This as you all my well know is from the 4th book, and this quote ties in directly to the situation with Snape.

In order to maintain his secrecy of his true alliance with OotP, he had to act things out, make Unbreakable Vows, and finally killing Dumbledore. Probably tied within the Unbreakable Vow but Snape was having to play the roll of Guardian with Draco towards the end, because he knew if Harry got ahold of him he would most likely think too rashly and kill him(much like he almost did with SectumSempra). Another note while Harry was chasing them Snape indulged into another personal feude with Harry about his father, if Snape was truley as evil as he's thought out to be he would of killed Harry right off the bat either during his first year, or as soon as he realized Voldermort had resurfaced. There was also the part towards the end where Snape got very emotionally enraged when Harry started calling him a coward, I think that mostly refers on how he had to choose between his own life by breaking his vow and on the other hand killing Dumbledore.

But then it comes down to the Unforgivable Curse reference, you have to -mean- it in order to do it. I really don't know what to think right now, I really want to see the good in Snape and the brilliance of Dumbledore being able to change much, even with his own death.

Another thing I wanted to add is about how Dumbledore kept reminding Harry of his strongest feat. The ability to love. Dumbledore probably knew in the end it was going to be his death that finally awakes the Harry we know is hidden deep down, the one that's going to turn everything around, make everything right again. Emotional shock brings out the best in people, but also the worse sometimes. I guess we'll have to see what's really going to happen with Harry in the last book.

[My First Post so I thought it should probably be lengthy.]

Listen.

This really WAS a shock. But...

I still believe that Dumbledore had his reasons to believe Snape. And, yes, I do believe that Snape had his reason for killing Dumbledore.

UNBREAKABLE VOW.

Between Snape and Dumbledore. I think Dumbledore never really cared for something as much as he did for Harry. He always came first. And he really needed Snape to be in the lines of Death-Eaters. Because he would be much more help than Dumbledore. In some way... So, Snape HAD to kill him. Because of the vow. And the pleading of Dumbledore, was just an act, because how many times has HE confessed that he is not afraid of death? There is still a huge and important part to play for Snape...

wow....still reeling....Snape evil (yay!) not feeling very well today :'(

I was thinking that perhaps that Snape was still a good guy and that it was all part of DD's master plan. But somehow i doubt it. I think that DD would have told the Order if he had told Snape to do something like that so that they would still trust him, cos what's the point of being a good guy if the good guy's don't believe you? (other than personal develpoment)

Also begging Snape to save his life? I dunno, maybe he was begging Snape not to fall deeper into the dark side, i must admit, it's got my brain going in a way OotP didn't.

DD's reason for trusting Snape was really really pathetic, he said so himself in OotP, that Snape's hate for his father ran too deep, and will never be forgivan, so why would he still trust Snape? Maybe there was another reason...maybe he loved Lily or something, i don't know.

Also DD revealed Snapes place in the order to Draco he wouldn't do that if he had told Snape to do whatever it takes to keep himself alive in LV's fold.

As for the unbreaksable vow? Maybe Snape decided to fall compleltely to LV then, maybe he already had. We can't forget that Snape is extremly cunning and very clever, maybe he had been lying all this time to DD. But Snape being the one who told DD about the Potters...Excuse me when I do something rather strange.

*Does a merry jig...'Yay!!!!!!!!' jumps up and down screaming!*

Obvious i know, but i was hoping against hope that that had been Snape and that was why he had turned, even though it was pathetic..before OotP came out i was a firm Snape/Lily believer. But the reaction between them in that book ruined it, so now it's just patheic. Did that make sense?

( My first reply. Bare with me if there is some wrong spellings, i´m not really good at writing in english.... )


All off the teroies in here is very good. I´m most for the idea that DD is dead but that Snape did it because DD "wanted" him to.
I think Snape will die in book 7 somehow saving Harry.....

I´ll be exiting to see.


Good to be in here and to have some to discuss Harry with....

On Draco- He was different than in any other book. He was highly secretive, He had deductive powers we had not seen before. And he had that odd characteristic that we have never witnessed in him before, Courage. I think there has too be something odd in that. It is more than growing up I think and having your dad thrown in the slammer.

I do agree that Dumbledore would protect any child in -the world over-actually. He told Harry a few times I think, that his life was not as important as Harry's.

The "please" Dumbledore says at the end does trouble me. And Snape yelling at Harry that he was not a coward is also weird, since when has Snape cared what Harry thought of him. Good time to cast Legilimens!

I have always been a Snape hater, I never thought he was on the good side. I think using the killing curse put him in that category, but if he did it on Dumbledore's order.....

JK said she cried when she killed off Dumbledore, so I am pretty sure he is really dead, else why would she.

I keep thinking about that comment in Movie 3.... I will have to look back and see if it is also in the book, probably is. When Ron tells Harry that his tea cup said he was going to suffer, but he was going to be happy about it. This book sums that up really well, Harry is the happiest he has been I think, in this book.

Well thank you for reading my thoughts on it...

NO!!!!!!!!!!! i can't believe the way hhe died! it's terrible!!, I think it was such a poor and untriumphent death! nothing was resulved and all that was left of him was a plead with snape! no motivational or inspiring message for harry! and now harry's all on his own. I didn't think the ending was that great either with the funeral, no one was scared enought that the greatest wizard of ll time wsa now dead.

Interesting theory about Snape saving potter, i dunno though, i rekon snapes really really evil. Amlfoy could redeem himself though, i felt sorry for him

i dont know how many of you feel the same but when i read DD death i jus wudnt believe it, until the end (all very emotional for me) i do not doubt that DD is really dead.

i think that people saying that snape killed DD and is still on the good side maybe only sayin it to hang onto a thread of hope that snape couldnt over power DD. i am still not over the death and the word "die snape you filthy rotten death eater" spring to mind

One theory of mine however is similar to alot of yours,we know that voldemort telling Draco to kill DD was a punishment, and therefore i think he did not believe for one second that it would be done. I feel Draco still has an important part to play in the story, perhaps essential to harry's success, and dumbledore knew this therefore scarificing his own life over Draco's (and therefore for harry as well). We all know that if DD did not dye Voldemort would kill Draco, as it was said in the book.

however the 2nd chapter is still very confusing and when i read it i didnt no weather to think snape has been lying all along to dumbledore, or whether he is still lying to voldemort.

it is still possible snape killed DD because, as harry has said many times, he is on voldemorts side. ~ however snape did not know of the plan to kill DD and even on the night we know that he was in his office until Flitwick came to get him. perhaps this proves he definatly did it to save draco (and himself due to the vow) and that he didnt know what he was goin to have to do, so how can DD have asked snape to do it.

Ifeel Snape and Draco have very important parts to play, but we will jus have to wait for the next book to know the truth!

I'm interested to hear all the wide variety of views on this subject. I'm a person of endless faith and I believe the key to Snape's behaviour are unbreakable vows. I reckon he's been tied into one by Dumbledore since day 1 and that the second one with Mrs. Malfoy is a worded such that Draco will be 'helped' and no harm will come to him, rather than anything specific to the dark lord. Dumbledore was also caught arguing with Snape about something which could have been asking S to kill D while harry was on the way to the funeral of aragog so my sources tell me. Very confusing but I think this is all tied in somehow. I agree with someone previously who's already said that D's pleading was probably asking S to get it over with, rather than a sign of weakness.

Another thing I noticed was the presence of a phoenix at the point of Dumbledore's funeral. Could this have something to do with a comeback???? Pure speculation/hope really. I just can't accept he's gone.

None of this explains how Snape dealt with harry after all this. Maybe he was angry or maybe his hate for 'Potter' supercedes any remorse he might have felt.

Hi, I'm from Holland and I'm just begin with these forums.. I like Harry Potter very much. My room is ONLY HARRY POTTER Maybe I'll to London when Harry Potter & the Goblet of Fire is coming out in premiere. But that's just an dream... I read the half of the book. {HBP} I know who's gonna die and who's the Half-Blood Prince.. It's not nice who's die.. That person is very strong..

I was really, really shocked when I read Snape killing Dumbledore.
From the moment that Dumbledore pleaded I knew that Snape was through and through evil. But I would never think that he would kill Dumbledore, or that Dumbledore would let i come to his death. Of coures Harry could have stopped Malfoy and saved DUmbledore, he was under the invisibility cloak, but then Dumbledore didn't know it was just Malfoy luring around the corner.

That was the sadest ending I have ever read, don't you agree?

I can definately say that after I read the 6 book I nearlly fell off my seat. I could not believe what had just happened, all of it was happening so fast. As soon as I had read the 2nd chapter I thought this was Snape undercover until I understood that to break the Unbreakable Vow meant death. At this I knew Snape would want to save his own life rather than anyone elses.

I think Draco will end up as * phoenix * said would be essential to Harry's success. We all read that as soon as Dumbledore said he could provide protection for Draco and his family that Draco lowered his wand. Draco did obviously not intend to kill Dumbeldore. Though as soon as Snape saw that Draco would chicken out he finished him off.

This has all come as a big shock to me, though I am glad to see that Ron and Hermione will be there at Harry's side even as he goes to collect the rest of the Horcruxes. Thank goodness Harry has great friends like Ron and Hermione .




[B] It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live.

Dumbledore's death was sad yes, but to be expected.

My view is that Snape IS good, think about it, both Snape and Dumbledore are talented occlumens, and DD's plee was for Snape to kill him, so that there would be at least one spy on the dark side.

Snape was also bound by the unbreakable vow, to kill him, and I am sure Snape would rather have died to save DD but DD made Snape kill him.

Dumbledore shouldn't be underestimated, he definitely has a genuine reason for trusting Snape, which I believe will be revealed in the next book.

I am not to sure if this has been pointed out or not, But I rather imagine that Vodemort is not going to be to happy with Snape for doing what Drako was supposed to have done. I can only imagine the pain voldy will put on Snape YEA!!! He deserves everything that he gets dished out to him. I sort of trusted Snape too. But he is a character we all love to hate right!

Ok, combining a few things that I've read from other people,

I'd like to think that we can still trust Snape. He's been one of my favourites (after Sirius and don't even get me started on that one!) but I think his killing was that of necessesity.

He made the vow at the beginning- why he made it, one can really only assume that he was playing the part of that side. What would have happened to him if he hadn't have agreed. But like someone else said, when it came down to it, Dumbledore knew that he was dying. He seemed to be in a lot of pain and I think he's pleading with Snape was not so much for mercy to live, but to be killed.

i still cant believe it, i'veread that part five times, just to make sure i was reading correctly, i cant believe snape,how could he have been cleverer than dumbledor? i mean snape went through all of that , saving harry from quirell to being in the order, to giving harry 'redemial classes' cannot believe it . in so much shock right now, i need a butter beer ...

I think that it could go either way really. I can see Drako and his mum being seriously punished for what they did. If Snape was as close to Voldy as we think he is, I am sure that Voldy will know about the unbreakable vow. When I realized later that to break the vow meant death, I knew that Snape meant business. I would surly like to see Snape torched though. I am so angry with him!!

You guys know your stuff!

The more I read you guys and the more I read the ending of the book. The more intruiging it gets. At first I just presumed that Snape was evil and killing Dumbledore for his and Voldemorts own gain.

But what if Dumbledore had made an unbreakable vow with Snape - a vow that Snape would kill him. Snape appeared genuinly repulsed at killing Dumbledore. And surely Dumbledore would not be left completely helpless just because Malfoy yelled 'expelliamus'. Dumbledore also choose to petrify Harry, so he could watch the event, but not do anything - Why?

Perhaps Dumbledore wanted Harry to see that Dubledore had died. Perhaps, he wanted to light uo a fire of hatred in Harry - now that Dumbledore is gone, he cannot rely on others - he must become the 'Chosen One' and kill Voldemort.

I also wanted to comment on why DD believed Snape. As many of you have said it seemed a very lame reason for DD to trust Snape. But all of you know that more than once in this book and the previous DD himself had said that he is only human and that he himself has made mistakes in judgment. DD was only human, I think he made a grave error of judgment on Snapes part. Snape talked his way through every question Bellatrix gave him at the first of the book. He is a skilled manipulator.

it is intiguing why Dumbledore froze harry although i'm pretty sure it was to stop harry from a) being seen and doing something stupid like killing draco or getting himself killed
As we saw we harry started firing curses at Snape he isn't going to win at the moment agianst a death eater becuase harry is too rash and doesn't know how to wordless spells or even enough dark arts to be able to compete. Which makes it even more amusing that he is going to take on voldemort and find the horcruxes alone after not finishing the 7th year.
Snape murdering dd is weird tho becuase when he was dueling with harry he was almost mocking and teasing him btu not actually throwing curses at him jsut blocking them.....in fact snape stopped the other death eaters form cursing harry....so was snape really following orders? given how much he *hates* harry he could have easily killed him btu he never did....he also got really upset about being called a coward..... all this is what makes me think there must be some deeper final purpose to Snape...maybe he saves harry's life? Anyways i think eh had to kil dd in the end because even if he hadnt he would have diead draco would have been completely friendless and one of the other death eaters or that evil werewolf would ahve gotten dd.

I totally agree with you matman.

Plus, it does say, when he's making the unbreakable vow to Narcissa, that his hand "twitched within hers".
I think Dd doesn't want to lose his best spy and he'd rather die. Hence the pleading and, maybe, the row with Snape, AND the "don't call me a coward" to Harry. Killing someone you respect/love is definitely not cowardly.

So I too, think that Snape will redeam himself in HP7. But, again, Harry won't believe him, etc.

And someone has to protect Draco now that we know he's not that evil after all. Maybe that is part of what Dd asked Snape.

First of all, I was really wrong about a few of my theories this book.
One being that DD would survive to the beginning of book 7.

That said, I hav eto say that after the initial shock of DD's death, I was like many of you...I wondered if Snape had turned on DD or followed his orders.

I believe that Snape had told Dumbledore about the unbreakable curse right along. Dumbledore KNEW the possibility was there. He was trying to help Harry retrieve the Horcruxes before that moment came.

I WANT to think Snape is pure evil. But part of me wonders if saving Draco's soul (?) from murder was more good than evil. Wouldn't Dumbledore have wanted Draco to be saved? It is unlikely that Snape had never done murder before, as a death eater.

Additionally, I think, as others here have mentioned, that even though none of the Order will trust him, Snape may still be redeemed in Book 7. I also think it is possible that the reason Dumbledore trusts Snape is perhaps there is ANOTHER unbreakable vow in place? Would it last after Dumbledore's death? I don't know.

I agree with the idea that the portrait will continue to have advice for any who will listen. However, if Harry doesn't return to Hogwarts, how will he get advice?

A lot of you have already said most of what I think, and I agree that it is still NOT clear whether Snape is truly Voldemort's man.

The second i read the 'hatred' part in Snapes eyes, i thought snape was obviously evil... however, ten seconds later i changed my mind. However there is a few things that make me wonder.

The fact DD told harry to do HWATEVER it takes to stay safe makes me believe that he wants EVERYBODY to do ANYTHING to eventully stop Voldymort, or rather to help harry defeat him.

DD helped snape a lot. I think the fight he and snape had could very easily be about DD telling snape that even if he had to kill DD to save draco or whoever, then snape would be angry with that, as he would rather not.

Because you see immense amount of hatred in snapes eyes while DD pleads make me either think he is furious with DD for making him do this, or furious with himself for doing what was asked of him.

A lot of people say that snape didn't hesitate in killing DD... i ask you this.. why did DD have to plead then?

DD and harry had their own plans, that nobody else in the order knew about, which means he could have had his own plans nobody knows about with snape.

Overall, even though there are some things that make me wonder if snape really is bad, such as his and harr's exchange of words later and snape seemed just as cruel as either... but that's only one reason. there are many many more reasons to think snape is still working towards eliminating voldimort than there are of him betraying.

Hello all. First post.

It seems that we're all searching for a single, shorthand category for Snape, and I think that's a mistake. Snape may be the single most complex character in the series. It's not as simple as "he's on the dark side" or "he's on the good side but staying in character as a spy, even to the point of killing Dumbledore."

Even as a student, Snape had a *serious* attraction to the dark side. He is unbelievably powerful -- perhaps the second most powerful wizard at Hogwart's through most of the series. He literally INVENTED NEW MAGIC even as a student. ( forgive me, I don't have my HBP book with me so quotes are approximate...."using my spells against me...") Who else have we seen who is that powerful? Dumbledore ("did things with a wand I've never seen before" at his OWLS). Fred and George, who channel it into jokes but are literally inventing new magic all the time. Snape even invented new dark magic ("for enemies"). His attraction to the dark arts is a serious part of his character and has been since he was a kid in potions class.

And yet, he's worked for the Order. He's been Dumbledore's man. He's even, I believe, killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's orders. (two very powerful legilimanses there on the astronomy tower, Dumbledore, who did NOT fear death, pleading for Snape to do something...wouldn't have been pleading for his life). Even to the end, he was teaching Harry. ("no unforgivable curses for you, Potter!" "Shut your mouth and close your mind!" as he parried Harry's blows and didn't respond).

Snape has walked that line between light and dark closer than any other character.

One of JKR's major themes is *choices* -- "it is our choices, Harry, much more than our abilities, that define who we are." Snape's choices are a vital part of the problem of the series. On the one hand, he cannot choose the light -- he is uneccessarily cruel as a teacher, he flirts with darkness. And on the other, he will not choose the darkness -- he works for the Order, and for Dumbledore, even to the point of killing Dumbledore and setting the Order against him because Dumbledore asked it of him.

I don't actually know where this will go...it seems clear that Snape will play a major role in Book 7, and I think that something was VERY nearly revealed about Snape and Lily when Harry confronted Dumbledore about Snape. His choices -- and his inability to choose -- won't be the only key to book 7, but it has to matter a great deal. It just doesn't work for the series to set up Snape as the ultimate conflicted character and then say "nope -- he chose evil" so early.

One last thought -- if LOVE is going to be the key to defeating Voldemort, as Dumbledore has said (and he is right) what is Snape's relationship with Love? What were his feelings toward Lily? Given that Voldemort's fear of Death is what drives him, what is Snape's perspective on Death, having sent Dumbledore to it? Alright, that was two thoughts. Done.

Perhaps, and i dont think it really a "longshot"
a "ironclad" way for DD to trust snape would be if they in fact made an unbreakable vow years b4...

Obviously, JKR introduces "new" circumstances to things that happend all the time...
frankly, IMO her worst writing habbit.
(IE snape listening to the prophecy)

So its not a longshot that in 7 were gonna see more about the past, and things we werent privi to in this, or any book.

I think anyone who has paid attention to detail(and most of us potter fans do) will see the patern of her taking seeimingly incosequantial things from prior books, and turning them into huge plot lines
(IE Harry talking to the snake in SS, and more Recently the Cabinet that Draco uses)

so to think in 7, we wont see some sort of stunning revalation.


Heres my theory, bare with me.
snape, like people said, knew in the presence of bella HAD to make the unbreakable, to "prove his worth"
even though he gave a good argument juist prior.

Snaple Immediatly made way to DD and told him.
now, im sure....its the quirky wizard world, theres gotta be something about crossing your toes or batting an eyelash 3 times that can make a vow Null & Void, or perhaps a rediculous wizard as DD could reverse it.

either way, this is the perfect way to "stage" his death.
I know it sounds like a bad action sitcom...

but its just a loose theory.

On the other hand, maybe it was one of those:
Im more powerful in death than i could ever be in life
things...

Kinda like when Obi-Wan Lets Darth Vader Kill him in the first star wars...
He looks over at luke, KNOWS he's "the one" who is goin to kill him, and allows himself to be killed.

I saw the death very simular...Put a helmet on snape, he might have even looked like vader.

I believe that Snape is a complex character that was acting on DD's orders. In the end, Harry must ultimately face Voldemort alone. I believe we'll see DD somehow in Book 7 whether as a hidden character, a painting or a ghost somehow. Keep in mind almost everyone who gives Harry strength never truly disappears. Maybe they'll tie the mirror back in from the first book because the beginning of Harry's true strength was when he got to see his parents for the first time. I also think we'll see the redemption of Draco in book 7. Time and time again, they've shown him as a true coward and wimp, who merely wants to be evil to merit his father's approval. So there's hope for him.

I also think that the scar itself may be a horcrux. It seems to take on a life of it's own when evil is around. We may see Grimadi property be a turning point in finding the remaining horcruxes. I'd love for in the end to see it disappear and Harry be free of Voldemort's characteristics that it bestows on him to be the wizard he was born to be. It would be cool that if Harry kills Voldemort, the scar simply disappears.

I think the reason Dumbledore wasn't afraid of Draco was because he didn't have his whole heart into killing him at that time. Like Barty Crouch JR. said when he was impersonationg Moody, they would probably only give him a bloody nose. The same thing with Bellatrix. "Crucio" spell didn't hurt her that much because Harry didn't want to do it. When Snape came and confronted Dumbledore, he knew that Snape had the resolve to kill him unlike Malfoy.

Hello Everyone.

I read the book and everything so dont worry about the mahlor spoilers.

Yeah, about Dumbledore dying that was pretty awful and unfair to have such a great person killed that way. But anyway Snape made an unbreakable vow which could have caused him to die.

At least now we have someone closer to Voldemort though definetly not on the same side.

Here is my theroy, Dumbledore told Snape that he [Snape] must be the one who kills him [DD] because DD has, had :-(, info regarding Malfoy. This is why DD and Snape were arguing near the forest, seen by Hagrid. Snape didn't, of course, want to kill him. DD is too powerful to be done in by Snape. Dumbledore sacrificed himself cuz he knew Malfoy holds the key to helping Harry bring down Voldermort. DD needed to prevent Malfoy from joining the Death Eaters, in practice at least, if not theroy. My two knuts, for what it's worth.

I couldn't beleive it when I saw snape do the Death curse. I was just like this can't be.I thought for sure that DD had been reeled in by snapes lies. But then I started to think about it and the more I thought about it I was thinking DD would never have ever pleaded for his life like that. BUt he would have pleaded for somone to take his life if it meant that it would help Harry. I think that is why Snape and DD were fighting was because DD knew that Snape would eventually have to take him out, and Snape didn't want to do that.

I think DD knew that for HArry to really realize his hate for Voldomort he would have to be killed. Obviously Harry already had a terrible hatred for Voldomort. But I think DD knew that his death would put Hrry over the edge and would give him the nudge he needed to go out there and do what needs to be done. Of course this is just my opinion.

After what happened in this book I am almost scared to read the next one. If she can get rid of DD (wich is really really sad but of course it doesn't make me hate the books or anything) then she could get rid of anybody. Its a crazy thought that DD won't be alive anymore.

I found the death of Dumbledore very sad mainly because he did not put up a fight. I could not belive my eyes when I read that Snape had killed him.
Having re-read the last few chapters of the book I would have to say that Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him, as Harry as to go on ahead alone, therefore Snape is still on the good side.
Dumbledore cares too much for Harry that if he was alive he would get in the way of Harry finishing of Lord Voldermort so Dumbledore had to let go and death was is only way out.

As for the book on a whole I was a little dissapointed as it bought up more questions than ever but did'nt answer many from the previous books.
Can't wait till book #7.

hmmmmmmmmmm
that sparked an idea.

voldy kills Narcissa & luciuos...
Narcissa for telling the "plan"
Lucious for messing up, and to punish & set an example

Draco, being in his character... wants revenge
also fears for his life....

who else can he turn to?

well to be honest, i pretty much knew dumledore was gonna die. heres how i figure it: dumbledore dies so now next year, harry wont have his protection anymore and he will be forced to face off with voldemort, in which, they both die.

The death of Dumbledore is like loosing a good friend. A companion that you took through the first 6 books. His death was more shocking than the loss of Sirius Black.

As for Snape I want to track him down and make him suffer. I Although Rowling may attempt to redeem him in Book 7, I really don't think it is possible. He is just a nasty mean spirited man.

Dumbledore always looked to be the better nature of people's souls. It would have been very much out of character for him not to accept Snape's word that he was remorseful. However, if Snape had been truly remorseful he would not have treated Harry the way he did through books 1-6. We must appreciate the character flaw because it makes him more human than Voldemort.

I shall miss Dumbledore..but I think it is safe to assume that his presence will be felt throughout book 7. My hat is off to Ms. Rowling. A job well done. I look forward to book 7 with great anticipation.

I had not considered the possibility that Dumbledor himself may have one or more horcruxes, but it would make perfect sense.

Although killing off DD was inevitably sad I think it is also a stroke of genius from JKR. There is only so much story that can be created based around a school ( even a magical one). With any hope we will have a chance to see the characyers mature and develop as they head offinto the world on their quest. Who knows, it may even develop so much that JKR is forced to add more books after to fit it all in (we can but hope!0

I could not agree more with everyone else! How could she just kill of the best character?


But one thing has come to my mind. Snape had made an unbreakable vow so it was either kill Dumbledore or be killed himself by not helping Draco

I am just thinking
about the Argument Hagrid Heard! I mean Snape was saying I won't do it! Well isn't there a chance he was saying that because they were arguing over if he should kill Dumbledore. I mean Snape was in an Unbreakable vow promissing that he would do anything to help Draco right? Well he had to help him by finishing the job or two lives would be gone instead of just one. And why did Snape yell out "I am not a Coward!" was that he was doing it for everyones welfare? And didn't they leave (Snape and Draco) earlier then everyone else?

Just a thought.

i think Dumbledore wanted Snape to kill him...
How come the greastest ever wizard cannot perform a simple wandless spell? If he came to Hogwarts to protect the students, how come he wasted time talking with Malfoy? If he did not have strength to fight, why did he come at all? Why did he freeze harry? Why didnt Snape allow Harry to be killed? When voldemort has said that he has no further use for Harry, why would Snape leave Harry for Voldemort? Why did Snape ask everyone to move out quickly once Dumbledore was dead?

Dumbledore perfected the art of "tracing magic" in the cave. How then did he miss the fact that there was no magic in the necklace? Inferi were attacking Harry and he was about to be defeated when Dumbledore got up and created fire.How did he suddenly become ok?? How come Dumbledore wanted to take Harry with him for such a dangerous mission? He found out about the cave perfectly,he got everything, the boat, blood everything right the first time, but failed to see the Hoxcrux wasn't there? He knew he would not want to drink the potion and wanted Harry to persuade him, yet he failed to see that the potion will weaken him?

Dumbledore knew something was going to happen and yet he chose that time to leave AND to take Harry with him.AND to get himself weakened? He thought Harry was mature enough to go and destroy the Horcrux, but freezed him because Malfoy was coming?? Why?

'No, Draco,' said Dumbledore quietly. 'It is my mercy, and not yours, that matters now.' Was that as empty as it seems?

I think either Dumbledore sacrificed himself for some 'higher' deed. The argument between Snape and Dumbledore maybe the clue. i think Dumbledore was asking Snape to do something(like killing him/ fulfilling his Unbreakable vow) and Snape initially refused. But maybe Snape agreed in the end DD wanted Snape to kill him instead of by any others so that Snape could get closer with Voldemort?

I think Dumbledore said "Severus please" which meant he asked him to kill him... and NOT "dont kill me.."


DD was my fav. character

[COLOR=red]I seriously want to urge people to peruse back to page 3 of this discussion and read out major theory on Dumbledore's death...it makes total sense that Peter Pettigrew was 'standing in' for Dumbledore when he died...I urge you to go back and read our entire theory! There are not many holes in it that leave space for criticism...but, if you have critiques, please post them, we want to work out the holes. Thanks!

I still think Snape might be on the side of the good.
Wait, wait, here me out.
I don't think Dumbledore, as was earlier pointed out, would EVER beg for his life. I think he may have been asking Snape to kill him. I don't believe Dumbledore would trust Snape over the feeble reason Harry believes. I also think Dumbledore would NEVER create a horcrux. I mean, Dumbledore is, was, the goodest (is that a word?) person in the series. A horcrux was portrayed as being something entirely evil.
I am basing all these assumptions on Dumbledore's character, as we have little else left to go on. But I agree Dumbledore will play a major posthumous role in defeating Voldemort.

I am in shock as i'm sure the rest of the world is too. Snape was one of my favorite caracters. He was so hatable but Dumbledore trusted him so i did and the mystery of why Dumbledore trusted him is wut made me love the character. But when i read that he killed Dumbledore i had to go back and read again to make sure i actually read what i thought i read. Unbelievable! As they said at the end of the book i thought Dumbledore knew something about Snape that the rest of us didn't. How do you think this will affect Harry? So far he's lost the adults that got close to him.