i dont actually ever remember her offering to go with Harry in hbp or even suggesting that he take her. she seemed happy to just wait idly by and be the "love" interest back home. She went back to Hogwarts like a good girl. I'm sorry but i just dont understand why the love of harry's life and his "Equal" never thinks to suggest that she go with them.

Dumbledore's Widow and UnknownLocket



UnknownLocket and HJP/HJG_TrueLove



UnknownLocket

I've never really been a big fan of her as a character, I don't dislike her, but she's certainly not one of my favourite characters in the books/movies.

One thing that I figured out from the last two books is that Ginny is not naive. She knows exactly how far

Mod Edit: Outside the DH section, please use spoiler tags when discussing anything about the last book.

That's true, she does have quite an arrogant attitude, at least to me. Not that there's anything bad about that, of course, it just makes me like her less.


Too true!

TrueToGinny, please don't presume. As a non-shippper, I dislike Ginny based on her characterization.
re: Ginny offering herself
[quote name='TrueToGinny' post='427095' date='Aug 3 2007, 08:16 AM']
[quote name='UnknownLocket' date='Aug 3 2007, 10:53 PM' post='427738']

re: Ginny as a powerful witch?
[quote name='TrueToGinny' post='427095' date='Aug 3 2007, 08:16 AM']
[quote name='UnknownLocket' date='Aug 3 2007, 10:53 PM' post='427738']

Ginny has not been shown in canon to be a powerful witch. Ginny has been shown to be ineffectual in fights. Apr 5 2007, 12:36 AM Post #800 is a comparison of Luna and Ginny during the disastrous rescue mission to the Ministry of Magic DoM in OotP. Ginny is ineffectual in the fight at Hogwarts in the end of HBP. Even with advantage of taking Felix Felicitas, which allows all her endeavours to succeed, Ginny merely dances and dodges curses as the DE Amycus toys with her. Textual support is in Apr 9 2007, 10:48 PM Post #845. Ginny herself admits that without Felix her skills and abilities would not have been enough and she would have been killed. (HPB chapter 29 p. 571)

As UnknownLocket has mentioned Ginny is a damsel in distress who requires rescuing. This pattern has been demonstrated over the series.

1. Harry rescues her in CoS
2. Luna rescues her from the DE who breaks her ankle in OotP
3. Harry rescues her from Amycus who is toying with her in the fight at Hogwarts in HBP
4. » Click to Show Spoiler - Click Again to Hide... «
   Mrs. Weasley rescues her from Bellatrix in DH

Dumbledore's Widow and Lauren0891



Dumbledore's Widow



UnknownLocket



vega, of the lyre

TruetoGinny:
In response to your first spoiler -



In response to your second spoiler -

Oh no, it's not just her being stronger than others, it's the idea that in general, the word powerful is actually being used to describe her character when she hasn't proved it. Sure the twins have said she has one good bat-bogey curse and they wouldn't want to be on the other end of it, but Ginny hasn't shown that she is magically talented, not even performing that one hex that she apparently is very good at.

response to spoiler: kiss is trite



OotP
Well, actually we do know that Luna rescues Ginny in the DoM. We know that Luna rescues Ginny from a Death Eater and is able to help both Ginny and Ron get back to the rest of the group. As Luna explains to Harry about Ginny "one of them grabbed Ginny’s foot, I used the Reductor Curse and blew up Pluto in his face.." (OotP chapter 35 p. 701).

And you're right, then we do see Ginny requires physical assistance from Luna.
" 'We've got to get out of here', Harry said firmly. 'Luna, can you help Ginny.'
'Yes,' said Luna, sticking her wand behind her ear for safekeeping, then putting an arm around Ginny’s waist and pulling her up.
'It's only my ankle, I can do it myself!' said Ginny impatiently, but next moment she had collapsed sideways and grabbed Luna for support." (OotP chapter 35 p. 702).

Initially, Harry doesn't even want Ginny, or Neville, or Luna to accompany Hermione, Ron and himself to the MoM to rescue Sirius because he thinks all of them are ineffectual.
"He knew Ron was thinking exactly what he was: if he could have chosen any members of the DA, in addition to himself, Ron and Hermione, to join him in the attempt to rescue Sirius, he would not have picked Ginny, Neville or Luna." (OotP chapter 33 p. 671)

Also, in the Hall of Prophesy, Ginny is shown to be a hindrance as she put Harry et. al. at risk when they try to protect her from the DEs, especially Bellatrix in the DoM. Harry and the rest of the group provide a human shield for Ginny. "Harry felt the others close in around Ginny; he stepped sideways so that he was right in front of her."(OotP chapter 35 p. 691).

HBP
During the battle in Hogwarts (HBP), like in the DoM, Ginny is still a damsel in distress, in need of rescuing. She has taken Felix Felicis, so she should be lucky in everything she attempts and her endeavors should tend to succeed. During a fight with the DE Amycus, Ginny is shown successfully avoiding the Crucios being sent at her but not throwing any curses herself and not ending/winning this battle. Amycus doesn’t take Ginny as a serious threat, giggling and treating it as a game rather than serious fight, whose outcome is in doubt. Amycus is toying with Ginny, feeling that it is just a matter of time before Ginny is hit. Ginny is rescued by Harry jinxing Amycus. Harry yells one jinx and Amycus is finished. "Ginny was locked in combat with the lumpy Death Eater, Amycus, who was throwing hex after hex at her while she dodged them: Amycus was giggling, enjoying the sport: 'Crucio – Crucio – you can’t dance for ever, pretty –'
'Impedimenta!' yelled Harry.
His jinx hit Amycus in the chest."(HBP chapter 28 p. 558)

Ginny herself states a lack of faith in her own abilities in HBP. She also includes Hermione and Ron in her assessment, as the only 3 who had taken Felix. She feels that without Felix her skills and abilities would not have been enough.
"Harry, If we hadn’t had your Felix potion, I think we’d all have been killed, but everything seemed to just miss us" (HBP chapter 29 p. 571)

DH


In agreement, I repeated some of UnknownLocket's points - oops


It has been established in canon that Harry has a "saving people thing".
Based on the texts, Ginny is ineffectual in a fight. She is a damsel in distress who continually needs to be rescued.

Brilliant quote, Dumbledore's Widow! Thanks for posting it. It expresses my feelings exactly.

I don’t believe anyone has been discussing whether Ginny is a "good person" or a "bad person", but rather her characteristics as they are portrayed in canon.

I hate spoiler tags and I'll be back when they are no longer necessary, but DH proved to me that Ginny Weasley was everything I always said she was, and had none of the qualities I ever said she lacked.

Oh yeah, I had completely forgotten about

i agree with 2 posts earlier... ginny is b-e-a-u-tiful

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Apparently yes. Ginny is a very beautiful person. But besides her looks and charm (which is the only definite thing that we know about her and that we all can agree on because there is canon to support it), she lacks the depth that the other characters have, even those introduced later in the series such as Luna. Ginny was the first young female character introduced into the books who was supposedly "destined" to be Harry's girl, yet is one of the worst characterizations in the entire series.

hey does anyone know how to change their group from witches and wizards to deulling club?

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You know, I just can't understand why we, the reader, was suppose to see that Ginny was going to end up being Harry's love interest, and in an epilogue, his wife! All of this just from the meeting between Harry and the Weasleys in book one? When Ginny is nothing more than a snot nosed kid?

I had heard other people comment that the scene where she runs off after the train, waving goodbye (to her brothers? or trying to catch one last glimpse at the boy wonder?) was soooo cute and most likely a foreshadowing of their getting together! Say what?

Had Rowling written Ginny into every book then the reader could see that there just might be something happening between Harry and Ginny. Sort of like something happening between Ron and Hermione, whose love/hate relationship is another thread! Then, I can see that they would end up being a couple. But, let's be honest, the H/G relationship was force fed in HBP. Almost as if Rowling woke up one day and said, "Oops, I completely forgot to write about Ginny becoming Harry's ideal girl. Must do so now." Or something like this. It also didn't help that - even in the final book!! - Rowling created so many Harmony moments!

I agree, Ginny is one of the worst characterizations in the entire Harry Potter series. Unbelievable!

I never understood that either especially given the quote

"Harry watched the girl [Ginny] and her mother disappear as the train rounded the corner. Houses flashed past the window. Harry felt a great leap of excitement. He didn’t know what he was going to – but it had to better than what he was leaving behind."(PS chapter 6 p. 74 Raincoast)

Rather than forshadowing Harry/Ginny, for me it reads that Ginny is part of what Harry is leaving behind, and is quite glad to be leaving.
I agree with the worst characterization assessment.
Unbelievable! and unconscionable

I happen to like Ginny's characterization. I think she is talented for her age. In HBP, Slughorn sees how effective her Bat Bogey hex is and invites her to join the slug club. Slughorn only invited those he thought were talented.

However, I didn't think Harry and Ginny were destined to be together since book one. For all I knew, I thought he would end up with Cho. JKR is the author, and she decided that she wanted Harry and Ginny to be together. Maybe she didn't have that planned until the sixth book.

I really think that Ginny was a great addition to the HP books. She does have depth. She's been able to come out of a family of boys and prove that she's just as good as they are.

I like her! Though at times she does seem a little um, bossy, like Hermione, but they are very likable.

Bolding mine -

Personally, I don't think that Ginny is any more talented than any of the other witches and wizards at Hogwarts were at her age. Rowling did say she was a powerful witch in an interview post HBP, but she neglected to tell us in what way she was powerful. Rowling also didn't elaborate about Ginny's powers in DH. In fact, Bellatrix would have killed Ginny for sure had Molly not intervened. Ginny may have had a mean bat bogey hex, but that was the extent of her so called powers.

As for Ginny being a great addition to the HP books, I have to ask - in what way? She was the bait in CoS and then, we find out in HBP that she is to become Harry's love interest, and in DH, his wife. Oh, of course, this has to be the reason - Ginny is needed for the OBHWF plot!

As for Ginny having depth - I beg to differ. Even in DH, Ginny was kept as a secondary character. She has always been a secondary character, with few exceptions. Even the movies are going to have to play "catch up" to convince the audience (those who haven't read the books) that she is Harry's love interest! Already these movie-goers are asking who Jenny is? In the final book, we saw her trying to give herself to Harry, in the wedding scene, almost being creamed by Bellatrix, and, of course, in the epilogue. The rest of the time she was just being missed by the love sick Harry. Depth? I don't think so.

No, I think that JKR had it planned all along for Harry to be with Ginny in the end. It appears though that she just forgot to add any scenes to forshadow their relationship until the sixth book.


In what way does Ginny have depth? Snape has depth as a character, Harry has depth, Dumbledore has depth, Hermione has depth, Neville has depth, Luna and Ron have depth, but Ginny, I'm afraid, was left out in the cold in this situation. Once again, just like Dumbeldore's Widow, my thoughts are the same on this. She serves no purpose in the books other than to be the Harry's love interest, the person who opens the chamber in CoS, and apparently the damsel in distress of the series. She also lacks sympathy and has very shallow attributes. If JKR didn't have the time to develop her as a character, she should have just excluded Ginny from the series entirely. Wrote her off the pages completely and not have bothered to write her back in.


Ginny is not as bossy as she is contolling and overly possessive.

UnknownLocket, I agree with you when you said that Ginny was controlling and overly possessive. You can add jealous to the list. She really comes across as well, obnoxious. She comes across as insecure in her relationship with Harry. Why else would she be jealous of eleven year old Gabriella and be threatened by Cho accompanying Harry?

Ginny's behavior in both HBP and what little we saw of her in DH, makes me wonder if Harry even wears the pants in their marriage. Personally, I think Ginny is the type of woman that would whip her husband - figuratively speaking of course! I think that she has learned well from her mum. Molly strikes me as definitely wearing the pants in her family! Arthur is such a woose. Oh well, this is what I think Ginny is like. She's certainly not the sweetheart that she's made out to be by many.

Sorry if I went off on a tangent!

Speaking of Ginny being jealous.

I know that when i'm in a relationship you cn't help but have moments of jealousy when you significant other is chatting or hanging out with another girl but to voice your opinion the way Ginny did with Cho is just horrible. especially when looking at the whole situation. It really was not the time for Ginny to voice her jealous discomfort. And that Gabriella thing, there are no words to describe that moment. She is an 11 year old girl for crying out loud. JKR had many opportunities to give Ginny depth or to show us Ginny's power and she never did. Therefore Ginny is no more powerful than the other witches and wizards her age and when you look at the career path she chooses it is obvious where she excels at. The only thing positive that I have to say about Ginny is she's a goodt Quidditch player

WOW, there are some very strong opinions in this thread. Anyway, when I first started browsing the Harry Potter websites about 1-2 years ago, looking for any tidbits about the upcoming movies and books I kept mainly to the news and essay section of my favorite websites - this one included - . Anyway, after exhausting all of the recent book and movie news as well as listening to the recent PodCasts I've turned my attention to the forums.

Okay, OKAY back to Ginny. Before HBP came out I read an essay in Scrib***lous (Gosh, I hope it's okay to refer to another Harry Potter website) Anyway, it's a really well written essay that looks at possible hints or maybe foreshadowing that Harry was indeed destined to be with GINNY - WHICH I"M REALLY HAPPY ABOUT. She's perfect for him.

The essay mentioned the language of the books and how the books are wriiten in the third-person but everything is from Harry's point of view. Everything we read and all of Harry's descriptions and opinions are from his point of view.

To make a potentially long story - or essay - short - if you read back through the books - even the train scene in book 1 - every time Harry describes Ginny, it's in a very nice subtle way- he has always loved her hair. He has always valued humour and if you read the decriptions of the other "beautiful" characters such as Cho or even Fleur they have no humour. Even Hermione, whom we now know to the disappointment of Harry/Hermione shippers was only ever Harry's best friend has very little humour.

MOST of the references to Ginny throughout the books are underlined with humour and even at the end of book 5 Ron says something about Cho and telling Harry he needs to find someone a bit more cheerful. I know, Cho had been through alot but that only shows that when Cho accepted Cedric's invitation to the Yule tide ball then there was NEVER ANY chance of it working out with Harry and Cho - and now we know that JKR had Harry & Ginny planned from the start.

In this essay I mentioned - it focuses on Harry's underlining humour and now that all of the books are out we can see that JKR had a longterm plan to gradually bring Ginny into the story. As Harry said at the end of book 6 HE HAD to put their relationship on the back burner or Voldemort would have DEFINITely have gone after the Weasleys . Harry COULD NOT let his LOVE for Ginny distract him from his mission.

AND - as TRUEtoGinny says a few postings ago - Harry does think about Ginny at crucial moments in DH - BUT as Ginny says at the end of HBP she never gave up hoping that Harry would like her but she always knew that Harry wouldn't rest until it was finished with Voldemort

and yes I do wish we had seen much more of her all the way through. But JKR - to me - had the TRIO and everybody else was secondary characters. If she had paired Ginny and Harry off early then I fully believe she would have killed her off early on as some character - building - tragic hero - looses everyone he loves - but still must go on - etc etc

Anyway, I reccomend to all of the readers here - esp those who are not fans of Ginny to go and read this essay - it may change you opinion of the relationship. Hope you can find it - don't think I can give the website as it might be construed as advertising - sorry

As for characterisng Ginny, despite the fact that we didn't see a huge amount of her throughout all the books - she was and still is a complex character and in my opinion PERFECT for Harry. She's funny, pretty, firey, sexy, loyal etc etc and she seems to understand Harry perfectly. She let him go at the end of book 6 but we see in book 7 that she's not giving up on him completely - she will wait for him to do what must be done.


PS I think Bonnie Wright will be AWESOME in movie 6. Hope they give her a bigger role. One thing about the movies is that - yes they have left out some parts of the best book series of all time but on the other hand they can tweek them a bit and add extra things and even change a few things - we've already seen this in the previous films.

Bolding is mine.

I would be curious to read that essay - not that it will ever change my mind about how I feel about Ginny! - but I am curious to see what the author of that essay has to say, and what canon he/she uses to make his/her points. Do you have the link to this essay? If so, could you post it?

You wrote, "MOST of the references to Ginny throughout the books are underlined with humour", and I have to say that this just befuddles me, as there were few references to Ginny in books 1 -5. In a nutshell, in book 1 Ginny was running alongside the Hogwarts train waving goodbye; in book 2, she was possessed by Riddle; and, just where was Ginny in books 3 and 4?!; then in book 5 we have the library scene and the DoM scene. I have to say that none of these references were humorous at all. Book 6, I have to say was all about Ginny, since Rowling had to make it believable that she was to be Harry's intended, but that Ginny was - in my opinion - rather obnoxious. The so called funny moments that Rowling seemingly wrote in HBP, were not amusing for me. Yes, NOW we know that Rowling planned Ginny and Harry to be together - but NOT from the start!

You wrote, "...if you read the decriptions of the other "beautiful" characters such as Cho or even Fleur they have no humour. Even Hermione, whom we now know to the disappointment of Harry/Hermione shippers was only ever Harry's best friend has very little humour..."
Well, to be fair, Cho was grieving for Cedric and, in my opinion, should never have started a relationship with Harry in the first place. It was just too soon. But we only have Rowling to blame for Cho's characterization. Also, put yourself in Fleur's shoes. She was essentially a guest in her future in-laws home, and she could sense that her future mother-in-law and sister-in-law were not all that fond of her. Besides, Fleur is one of those - "I don't give a d*mn about what others say or think about me" type of person. That's just her nature. And, I applaud her for her no nonesense attitude. I have to admit that I was never one of those who disliked Fleur for her beauty or personality. As for Hermione being humorless ... it never ceases to amaze me that so many people find Hermione as not having a sense of humor! She does, and it has been shown - in Rowling's words, "reread the books".

p.s. Bonnie Wright is sure to get a bigger role in movies 6 - 7 now that we know that Ginny gets Harry! I'm sure she's tickled pink! Who wouldn't want to snog Dan Radcliffe?!! I'm not a fan of Bonnie's, I just don't think she is beautiful enough to play the role of Ginny as she is written in the last two books. Bonnie is cute, but that's about it. Yet, I have no doubt that she will be the one to play the role of Ginny right to the end. That's show business.

The essay that I was refering to was much more thought out then my posting and well worth the read even for those not fond of Ginny. I hope its okay to post the link. Actually, the website in question is under re-construction and at the moment I can't get into the essay section so I don't have the precise link but its in the scibbulous essay section of the leaky cauldron website. It was really I think perhaps after book 4 or maybe 5 but defiently before book 6 so I agree with last posting that up to book 5 there was no obvious evidence that it would end with Harry with Ginny.

I must confess that - and I guess it was pretty obvious from my previous post - that after I read that essay I could only see Ginny as being perfect for Harry. What blew me away the most from reading that essay and others was the thought gone into writing these essays. Typing in one of these posting off the top of ones head is one thing but writing full blown essays must take alot of time, energy, and passion for each particular topic.

anyway, here's to the internet, these forums and especially JK Rowling for writing an overall wonderful series and it is definlty bittersweet but nice that we finally know the ending.

NOW, I can't wait for the next two movies. Hopefully all of these websites, forums and podcasts can tide of over for at least the next 3 years - maybe more.

Mod Edit: Please go read the Forum Rules. You have been here long enough to know cursing is not permitted in the Forums.

I was thinking a bit more about this discussion about Ginny. Obviously, there are those who love her character and those who don't for lots of reasons already stated in this thread.

It got me to thinking about the coments how some people think that JKR just threw the relationship at us in book 6.

I'm not saying that JKR wrote Ginny's character the best ever but I do think that overall it was her intention to try and surprise us with it.

I seem to recall one of her post DH interviews where somebody asked her why 19 years later and if I remember right her reply was that she didn't want to rush these young characters into blatantly sexual relationship at an early age. REMEMBER its a kids fantasy story not a romance book

If you look back at each book -

Book 1 Harry was 11 years old - of course she's not going to start the crush there. And besides Harry had such a hard childhood with the dursleys its surprising he even knew what love and friendship were. now I know JKR did foreshadow Ron & Hermione and we definetly saw it from movie 1 onwards but I think JKR wanted to try and build up the big KISS in book 6.
Book 2 Harry was 12 and Ginny 11. Ginny had a MASSIVE crush on Harry and Harry always tried to respect her feelings as the younger sister of his best friend. Besides he only had 2 conversations with her the whole book. One when she tried to tell harry about the book and percy interrupted and 2 when he got rid of riddle

book 3 harry was 13 and ginny 12 can't recall anything in there have to reread it there may have been some mention of Harry thinking cho was pretty wasn't there the line in quidditch was wood tells harry to knock cho off her broom to get the snitch or something.

book 4 harry is 14 and ginny is 13. crushes are starting and jkr throws the cho crush in there knowing perfectly well it was doomed from the start. again can't recall how much is in there about Ginny. But every now and then al throughout the books from book 3 on you can notice Harry making a joke and catching Ginny's eye or Ginny making a joke - stuff like that

As for Ginny being a little obnoxious - HEY 6 olders brothers - how could she not. I certainly don't think she'd ever be a primadonna.

Book 5 harry is 15 and ginny is 14 this book is all about harry a cho which ended disatrocously. but there are little bits of humour btw harry and ginny and everytime ginny catches harry eyes he describes her pretty hair and stuff like that. I really like the conversation in the library where Ginny thinks he's upset about Cho when harry tells her its siruis he really wants to talk to. ginny has a boyfriend through most of 5 - oh yeah Michael comir cause he comes to DA with her. remember ginny tells harry in 6 that she had discussed her crush with hermione and hermione told her to move on. she does but she told hary that she never truly gets over her crush.

I love the part in the movie where Ginny is jealous in the DA room and even earlier when Hermione comments about Cho never taking her eyes off of Harry and Ginny who had been smiling starts frowning. I think we will see more in movie 6 than was in movie 5 esp now that book 7 is out.

now there are some parts where ginny says some obnoxious things - BUT THEN AGAIN so does Harry. They both have that kind of humour that can almost be cruel sometimes.

Book 6 well it kind of speaks for itself. the first indication that harrys feelings have changed is when he asked her to sit with him - forgetting that they don't hang around at school. then he smells the love potion but still doesn't connect the dots and when he smells her perfume when she asks about the potions book he still doesn't recognize it for attraction until the kiss with Dean. theres even a point i think at the end of 5 when ginny describes the break up with michael when ron gives harry a pointed look.

so when harry gets jealous and starts to admit to liking ginny hes still afraid what ron will say - too bad he never told ron the truth - BUT again that builds up tp THE KISS after the quidditch game. only hermione - always ever perceptive knew.

and as for book 7 - yeah i would have loved to see more of ginny but again .Harry could not be distracted and worried - he had to consentrate on his mission. but we see throughout book 7 that when he was the most upset or lonely ESPECIALLY at the end of THE FOREST AGAIN chapter who did he think about GINNY.

Anyway, I guess I've kind of gotten away from the thread which was/is characterizing GINNY but to me Harry grew to love her for all of her good and bad points and I think in the end she was a strong willed character that if you think about it - wouldn't we want Harry to settle for no less than someone worthy of his love.

I defiently think Ginny was perfect for Harry

as for the birthday kiss in 7 - THAT was only EVER a kiss - nothing more. JKR would never have had them take in any further.

Well people have the right to voice their opinions whenever they want. They don't have to get over it. Is it not the purpose of a forum to voice our opinions, however different they are anyway?
And yes I am a BIG ginny hater! I think she is one the most boring and underdeveloped character there is in the HP books. She is just there so that Harry does not end up alone. and also why did JKR say she is powerful witch? I didn't see any proof of that in the books apart from her bogey thingy. What is that supposed to be powerful?

I also do not like Ginny. Ok, let's be frank, I detest Ginny! Underdeveloped character is an understatement. Rowling may have told us that Ginny is Harry's ideal girl and that she is a powerful witch, but she sure as heck did not write it that way. This is what gets under my skin. I was literally hit between the eyes in book 6 when I realized what Rowling was doing. It was sickening. When Rowling had H/G part, it was a relief for me, but then H/G came back in book 7.

You know, we are all entitled to our opinions here, and for the person that said to get over it, I have to say - in your dreams! I will never accept Ginny as anything but as a secondary character, regardless of how the series ended. To me she's on the same level as Cho and Lavender Brown. She had no depth as a character. She was hastily put together in book 6 in order for it to be believable that she was indeed Harry's intended. Even Luna, who was introduced in book 5 and was essentially invisible in books 6 and 7, had more depth than Ginny! Despite the fact that we rarely see her in books 6 and 7, I simply adore Luna! I would have been just as happy to see Harry and Luna get together, although I really was hoping that she and Ron get together. Rowling gave us a teaser in book 6 when she wrote that Luna was growing on Ron. Aw, what could have been!

Despite the fact that I'm an obvious supportor of Ginny's character and eventual love interest of Harry, I did find myself smiling at the previous posting by Dumberdore's Widow. I really liked your "Underdeveloped character is an understatement" bit

BTW - not sure how to add the QUOTE thing - is it in the help?

I must say I do agree that Rowling could of and should of probable developed her more and should of given her a bigger part. And I do agree about agreeing to disagee and nobody needs to get over it. We wouldn't have 76 pages of discussion if everybody agreed.

I like the different opininons - it gives different perspectives and makes you think outside of the box.

Again, I refer back to the essay in Scribbulous - I'll post the link as soon as leaky website is up and running.

I've read all of the books now many many times but after reading these forums and essays when I go back and reread them - sometimes it makes me read it differently and look for clues. It still keeps me wanting to back and reread them all over again - unlike my now disinterest in LOTR

I think all of this makes this series so captivating and unique. I don't think there's even been anything like this phoenomen EVER.

LOTR was already published before the movies so we all knew the ending. Plus the internet phenomen is still fairly new - ie podcast are only 4-5 years old. The Eragon series movie/book is good but NOWHERE at this level of fandome.

But this series - the way it was spaced out and then the movies started before we knew the ending. There's been SO MUCH discussion and shipping and rumours and stuff that I guess WE just can't turn it off. I guess people will always find something to discuss and critize. I LOVE LOTR books but now that I'm into HARRY I just can't face rereading it - its just so HEAVY.

BTW I know this question may or may not be part of this thread - but what about the Ginny's character in the movie 5. Even though Bonnie Wright did not have a huge part - though I wish she had - what did you think of the 2 times that they showed her jealous on the bridge and exiting the DA room. That wasn't in book 5. I thought it was a nice touch.

AND, DID you notice Ginny's patronus - I don't think Ginny's patronus was mentioned in the book - have to go reread it to be sure. In movie 5 Ginny conjured a Patronus and it was a horse - guess a female horse to go with Harry's stag. Wait isn't a stag is a male deer. Oops, not quite the same - but I did think when I saw the movie that it was foreshadowing. The movie was done before book 7 came out so not sure if screenwriters knew of the links btw patronus - Tonks' was mentioned in the book.

Can't remember if they showed Cho's patronus in the RoR.

Anyway, back to Ginny. The bottom line is - especially for the Harry/Hermione shippers
Harry's character was so full of emotion and love that if his love interest had been a primary character - say Hermione - then Harry would have had a VERY VERY hard time staying focused throughout the books. We saw how much Ron freaked out in the Malfoys cellar in book 7 and how much calmer Harry stayed. If Harry had let Ginny come on their quest it was have been much harder to focus.

I agree with DW about Ginny's part/character being underdeveloped but I think that Rowling was trying to achieve 2 things. First surprise us in 6 - unfortunately we all wish she had done it sooner - even I'm sure those that don't like her character. and secondly Rowling didn't want Harry in love at too early an age and losing focus.

He did save her in COS b/c she was Ron's sister - but knowing Harry he would have gone after ANYBODY that got taken by Riddle - Okay maybe not Draco

BTW Dumberdore's Widow - who did you hope Harry would get with?
I saw you mentioned Luna for Ron. BTW Evannah is the perfect Luna

What is wrong with detesting a fictional character? It's human. It's just like watching celebrities on TV. There may be some who you just can't stand, and even though they are real people, you don't know them personally so they might as well be fictional.

I'm a big Ginny-hater, as is obvious, (and yes, I used the word hate My parents taught me as a child not to curse either but I do anyways ). I just can't stand her, and it's not only because I wanted Harry to end up with someone else, I just don't find her very likeable. I actually never had any preferences for Harry until after H/G happened. At that time, I would have took anyone over her! I'm over it though, but it still doesn't stop me from disliking Ginny. She's just so argh! *shivers*. She's a mean, shallow, weak, controlling, love-sick, and over obsessive girl with a cruel sense of humor. Despite all the good things we are told about her character, all I read and get are bad perceptions. She laughs at other people's misery, doesn't just poke fun at her brothers but emotionally tears them apart, and makes fun of her so-called friends. She's as good as a bully, and I don't know about you, but she definately is not someone who I would want to hang out with. I don't care that she's perfect for Harry or his "ideal", she's a horrible person who went from a sweet, shy, and cute character who barely existed in the series to a booming bombshell, and quidditch star! She also is supposed to be funny, sweet, powerful, and very popular. It's so unreal. No wonder she is referred to as super!Ginny. Whenever I imagine Ginny in the series, I picture her with a scrowl across her face and the attitude of "I just don't care". She just never seems happy.

Mean? Perhaps not, but her actions were certainly uncalled for. Zacharias Smith was asking questions about what happened in the MoM: he was not trash talking Harry et. al. Ginny hexed Zacharias Smith because he annoyed her.
"He [Zacharias Smith] kept on and on asking about what happened at the Ministry and in the end he annoyed me so much I hexed him" (HBP chapter 7 p. 141 Raincoast).

Hexing people for no reason, is exactly the same behaviour that "horrified" (OotP chapter 28 p. 573) Harry when he observed his father hexing Snape in the Snape’s worst memory pensieve scene in OotP.

"judging from what he had just seen, his father had been every bit as arrogant as Snape had told him" (OotP chapter 28 p. 573)
"…leaving his mind free to dwell, ever more miserably, on what he had seen in the Pensieve. He felt as though the memory of it was eating him from inside" (OotP chapter 28 p. 575)

Harry is so upset he needs to fire call Sirius to talk about his father. It is during this talk, that Sirius characterizes his and James’ behaviour.

" 'If we were sometimes arrogant little berks you mean,' said Sirius." (OotP chapter 29 p. 591)

Ginny hexing Zacharias Smith for no reason, beyond "annoying" her, shows that Ginny has an underdeveloped sense of right and wrong, i.e. morally ambiguous and similar to James, can be characterized as an "arrogant little berk".

I thing Ginny it’s very nice and I thing that Harry and Ginny will make a very nice couple and I am happy that they are together and Ron its happy that his sister it’s the girlfriend of his best friend but I don’t like that Harry seed that that they wane to break up because of his problem but life its life

Your flippant remarks just tells me know that you will never see Ginny as the bee-otch (as you put it) that others see her as. She really was a nasty piece of work in book 6. Some say she was fiesty, I say she had a nasty temper. Many say she mistreated her friends - and she did - so, as the saying goes, 'with friends like her, who needs enemies'. Personally, I hated her the most when she snapped at Hermione about not knowing a thing about Quidditch. Hermione not knowing anything about Quidditch? She probably had the book, Quidditch Through the Ages memorized!

vega, of the lyre cited canon in her post, and as usual her posts are well thought out and objective. Why don't you tell us why you think so highly of Ginny? That would make an interesting post!

Thanks Dumbledore's Widow, you are always so kind! I appreciate it.
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re: Ginny is not Luna's friend in OotP
http://www.veritaserum.com/forums/index.ph...st&p=371364

QUOTE(tripmywire @ Aug 20 2007, 06:04 PM) [snapback]436985[/snapback]

I like Ginny because she is assertive, knows what she wants and goes after it. She doesn't need help from anyone, especially from a man. She isn't helpless, she's strong minded, strong willed. She is not aloof, stands up for her friends and is aggressive.

[font=Comic Sans Ms]Please share your textual support for these assertions. My perception of Ginny, based on canon, is that she is a liability in the DoM in OotP, and is a "damsel in distress" throughout the series.
re: talented witch or liability?: A comparison of Ginny and Luna in OotP http://www.veritaserum.com/forums/index.ph...st&p=359186
re: Powerful witch? revisited after DH
http://www.veritaserum.com/forums/index.ph...st&p=420732
re: Ginny is a damsel in distress revisited
http://www.veritaserum.com/forums/index.ph...st&p=430026

And in closing a couple more random posts with reasons why I dislike how Ginny is characterized in the series.
re: reconciling Ginny’s lack of interest in the Quidditch World Cup (GoF) with her sudden prowess in OotP and HBP.
http://www.veritaserum.com/forums/index.ph...st&p=379620
re: Jealousy in DH
http://www.veritaserum.com/forums/index.ph...st&p=430544

My perceptions of Ginny, based on canon, are valid. Individuals are always welcome to disagree with them.

Links do not work. Very well thought out and interesting, though. Your arguments are solid and well cited, if only to prove that your "perceptions of Ginny, based on canon, are valid."
It just boggles my mind as to why one needs to prove one's own perceptions as valid, sigh. Or at least this particular perception of Ginny...

Anyway, I'm curious as to why you think Ginny is not Luna's friend in OotP.

Some people are saying that Ginny did not have a good reaso for attacking smith??? He was making bad comments about everyone of the Gryffindor team! If I were her I would have retaliated the way she did at him. Ginny attacked Smith on the train because he kept bugging her about Harry. She likes Harry remember? She will not stand anyone talking bad or nagging her about info on him. Ginny is a main character but we have to realize that the Harry Potter books are not about Ginny! They are about Harry and it so happens that Ron and Hermione are always with him when something major happens. Even the three of them have split at times. I do however get some points on how people say that she is not this great loving, comforting girl a lot of people make her to be. She is just a normal typical girl having grown up with six brothers and she will not allow her self to be bullied or nagged.

Some people will make the argument that she is not as tough as she seems. I totally agrre on that. Ginny is younger than Harry and his two best friends. She has been through a lot though. Getting possessed in her First year, Voldemort being back in her 3rd year (remember that she is one of the few persons Voldemort has possessed and is still alive), Her father getting attacked in her 4th year and she getting her at the ministry, in her 5th year her brother is attacked, and many more. I believed she is tired of being the one who is always the weaker character. She wants to show that she will fight and will stand up to whoever no matter what.

Very sorry about that - I fixed the links and they should work now.
I will preface the whole Ginny is not Luna's friend thinger by saying sweeping generalizations tend to irk me, and this was a rebuttal to a statement that Ginny champions "losers" (definitely not my characterization - but that was the derogatory gist) like Luna and Neville.
Ginny has an underdeveloped sense a sense of right or wrong; she is often morally ambiguous acting when she may know what she is doing is wrong. Attacking Zacharias Smith is wrong; it's an assault, which should be punished.

On the train, Ginny hexes Zacharias Smith because he annoyed her.
"He [Zacharias Smith] kept on and on asking about what happened at the Ministry and in the end he annoyed me so much I hexed him" (HBP chapter 7 p. 141 Raincoast).

It’s not about Harry. It is never stated in the text that anyone on the train was "talking bad" about Harry, or that anyone was "nagging her for info on him" specifically. Zacharias was asking questions, albeit many questions, about the incident in the MoM. In a self-absorbed way, Ginny makes it about her. "he annoyed me so much I hexed him". Perhaps Ginny is so annoyed because she can’t answer the questions. She doesn’t know much about what actually happened at the MoM because she was separated from Harry, she was hobbled by a broken ankle, and then was hit with a hex and was unconscious.

Ginny herself states that she thought she might be punished for hexing Zacharias Smith.
"- when Slughorn came in I thought I was going to get detention"(HBP chapter 7 p. 141)
This indicates on some level she knows hexing Zacharias Smith is wrong, but she goes ahead and does it anyway. This shows moral ambiguity.

So, yes I think being annoyed is not a good reason for attacking anyone. This is similar to James hexing Snape for no reason, which Harry found very distressing. This behaviour is characterized by Sirius as being "arrogant little berks" (OotP chapter 29 p. 591)

Again, after the Quidditch match Ginny attack Zacharias Smith because his commentary annoyed her. Ginny’s behaviour is comparable to Harry and George Weasley attacking Draco after the Gryffindor/Slytherin match in OotP. Ginny receives no punishment for her behaviour, while in contrast, Harry and George are hexed by Madam Hooch, and severely reprimanded and punished by McGonagall for attacking Draco.

" 'What do you think you’re doing?' screamed Madam Hooch, as Harry leapt to his feet. It seemed to have been her who had hit him with the Impediment Jinx; … 'I have never seen behaviour like it – back up to the castle, both of you, and straight to your Head of House’s office! Go! Now!' " (OotP chapter 19 p. 366)

McGonagall’s summary after a page describing her anger and reprimands is" 'Now, you two had better listen closely. I do not care what provocation Malfoy offered you, I do not care if he insulted every family member you possess, your behaviour was disgusting and I am giving each of you a week’s worth of detentions! Do not look at me like that, Potter, you deserve it! And if either of you ever –' "(OotP chapter 19 pp. 367, 368 bolding mine)

McGonagall’s words are applicable to Ginny. It shouldn’t matter what Zacharias Smith says as a commentator during the Quidditch match, what insults or provocation he offers, Ginny’s behaviour in attacking him in the commenting tower is disgusting, and she deserves some sort of reprimand and punishment.
Ginny is a secondary character, and not written as a particularly well-developed secondary character at that.
I am not "some people", having never commented on "toughness" as a characteristic of Ginny, but I will now. I have suggested she is neither as talented nor as powerful as stated by the Ginny-philes. If "tough" means an unpleasant, arrogant little berk, who is rough-around-the-edges then I may agree Ginny is tough.

vega, of the lyre: Great points!! I was really never good at debating at school or debating anything for that matter Like I said before I think her character is a little vague but in order for us to see how every character develops the book would get insanely too long and there is really no need for it. I am rather happy with all the details there are about Ginny and quite glad that I didn't have to read about all the other stages she went trhough Good job once again! Peace! I am gone!

Yes I know, I'm risking it by even writing in this forum, seeing as most of you people seem to "hate" Ginny Weasley. Well we're all entitled to our own opinion so this is mine

I know a lot of you think that she's mean because she hexes people. But honestly I was reading some of the replies and well let's just say you were in her position. She has 6 older brothers and she's the youngest and only girl. Obviously she would have to be "tough" shall we say, to stick up for herself with them. Yes most people are not going to agree with that, but I have brothers so I can speak from first hand experience. If you're a wuss, you get picked on. Simple as that.

Also Zacharias Smith is a weird little fellow. He is very sarcastic and I'm glad Ginny hexed him and crashed her broom into him.

I believe that she is just sticking up for her friends, and I know some fo you say that she's mean to her friends, well I don't honestly see any proof of that, other than when she snaps at Hermione ONCE! She was in a grumpy mood probably and if you say that she shouldn't have been or whatever then I guess you've never had a bad day. Just think about it. I'm sure you've snapped at people. Other than that ONE incident she's been very pleasent to her friends. Ron doesn't count because he's her brother.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind and this is just my own personal opinion.