Perhaps I'm just getting really tired, or have been reading too many posts tonight, but I was looking at stuff about the veil in the department of mysteries from the 5th book. It all relates to death and such, I was thinking that somehow Lord Voldemort would be connected with this veil, or the land of the dead moreso, as he is partially dead, but cannot die with the horcruxes still intact.
I would not be entirely surprised if one of the Horcruxes was somehow in the Department of Mysteries or the final battle took place somewhere similar. Does anyone else think that the veil and the horcruxes might have something in common?
Full Version: The Veil & The Horcruxes?
possibly the mirror given to Harry by Sirius will have a more substantial role, maybe its one of the Horcruxes, maybe it holds a vital secret to where one is, or how to open it(the locket in 12 Grimmauld Place) or maybe I am just really tired and making fanatical deductions...
Well JKR said in one of her interviews that the veil would be intorduced again, and it didn't come into place in this book, so it has be in the next one.
Hey mars... I would just like to point out to you that in OotP Harry throws and shatters the mirror when he realizes it doesnt work to contact sirious. Sorry but it cant be a horcrx if its already broken. 
It's very likeable that the locked in Grimauld place is the seventh Horcrux and that it was taken from the cave by Regulus Black, and that it's still in Grimauld place because he didn't get the time to destroy it, as we know he was killed few days after he fled from the Death-Eaters.
But I don't think the last Horcrux will have to do anything with the Veil. I can't imagine what that would be. I wonder if Voldemort could step trough the Veil and not die because of the Horcrux.
I think Harry shoud do a Horcrux. We know it's a rather nasty buisniss bit if he fails to Kill Voldemort, he could have a second chance. This means he would have to kill somebody, but then he could have a reason for killing Bellatrix or Snape. And if Harry fails in the atempt of killing Voldemort, Voldemort will ruel the World for etearnity.
He is immortal after all. And I'm sure he could make a Philosopher's stone if he wanted to but I think he has the immortality he needs if Harry fails.
But I don't think the last Horcrux will have to do anything with the Veil. I can't imagine what that would be. I wonder if Voldemort could step trough the Veil and not die because of the Horcrux.
I think Harry shoud do a Horcrux. We know it's a rather nasty buisniss bit if he fails to Kill Voldemort, he could have a second chance. This means he would have to kill somebody, but then he could have a reason for killing Bellatrix or Snape. And if Harry fails in the atempt of killing Voldemort, Voldemort will ruel the World for etearnity.
He is immortal after all. And I'm sure he could make a Philosopher's stone if he wanted to but I think he has the immortality he needs if Harry fails.
It might be, and that would make sense if that last book ended there, because they mystery of that department has still yet to have been solved!
I am slowly warming to the Harry-as-Accidental-Horcrux theory, although the holes and complications in it keep me open to other ideas. But I think that the main thing to remember is that whatever curveballs JKR throws her readers, she always makes sure to foreshadow like a demon.
And what is the main thing that she reinforces over and over in every book?
Harry's capacity for love.
If Harry is a Horcrux, I think he may try to sacrifice himself, but will survive due to the strong love he shares with so so so many characters. That's sort of the point of the series anyway, as far as I can see. Under the magic and mysteries, the characters repeatedly underline the importance of friendship, trust and co-operation. Sounds hokey put like that, but that's the point of a heroic tale.
And what is the main thing that she reinforces over and over in every book?
Harry's capacity for love.
If Harry is a Horcrux, I think he may try to sacrifice himself, but will survive due to the strong love he shares with so so so many characters. That's sort of the point of the series anyway, as far as I can see. Under the magic and mysteries, the characters repeatedly underline the importance of friendship, trust and co-operation. Sounds hokey put like that, but that's the point of a heroic tale.
When I saw this topic, it gave me a good idea. It's not fully formed, but here goes. We don't really know anything about the veil, except that Harry could hear voices behind it. Does anyone think these could be people's souls, or parts of people's souls? Like a part of someone is left behind when they die, kind of how the horcruxes hold a part of a person's soul? I don't know... it sounded better in my head... 
| QUOTE (Lulu @ Jul 19 2005, 06:05 PM) |
| It's very likeable that the locked in Grimauld place is the seventh Horcrux and that it was taken from the cave by Regulus Black, and that it's still in Grimauld place because he didn't get the time to destroy it, as we know he was killed few days after he fled from the Death-Eaters. But I don't think the last Horcrux will have to do anything with the Veil. I can't imagine what that would be. I wonder if Voldemort could step trough the Veil and not die because of the Horcrux. I think Harry shoud do a Horcrux. We know it's a rather nasty buisniss bit if he fails to Kill Voldemort, he could have a second chance. This means he would have to kill somebody, but then he could have a reason for killing Bellatrix or Snape. And if Harry fails in the atempt of killing Voldemort, Voldemort will ruel the World for etearnity. He is immortal after all. And I'm sure he could make a Philosopher's stone if he wanted to but I think he has the immortality he needs if Harry fails. |
I don't know if Voldemort could step through the vail but what leads you to believe that it would kill him? I'm pretty sure that Sirius died because of a curse from Bellatrix and just happened to fall behind the vail after that.
As for Harry making a Horcrux, definately not going to happen, that would require him to commit many more murders thereby "ripping apart his soul" plus a bit of spellwork that we know nothing about. Make sure you go back and read the account of the memory in which Tom Riddle (AKA Voldemort) inquires about Horcrux's.
We're drifting here, guys.
This topic is discussing the relationship between the veil and horcruxes. If you want to talk about the horcruxes themselves - i.e whether Harry or Voldmort or anyone else is one, then please do so in the appropriate thread or I'm afraid I'll have to lock this.
This topic is discussing the relationship between the veil and horcruxes. If you want to talk about the horcruxes themselves - i.e whether Harry or Voldmort or anyone else is one, then please do so in the appropriate thread or I'm afraid I'll have to lock this.
I'm not going to go in the all the reasons why Harry would/could be a Horcrux because there are other threads for that.
Basically if Harry IS a Horcrux- he will need to kill himself before Voldermort dies- which in turn makes it impossibble for him to kill Voldermort. HOWEVER- the veil provides us with a type of death where you do not have to be killed- you merely fall through- SO I think that the only way Harry could kill Voldermort is if he falls through the veil and brings Voldermort with him. JKR HAS implied that we will see the veil again and it seems logical to me that this will be the context.
Basically if Harry IS a Horcrux- he will need to kill himself before Voldermort dies- which in turn makes it impossibble for him to kill Voldermort. HOWEVER- the veil provides us with a type of death where you do not have to be killed- you merely fall through- SO I think that the only way Harry could kill Voldermort is if he falls through the veil and brings Voldermort with him. JKR HAS implied that we will see the veil again and it seems logical to me that this will be the context.
I think that ur theory seems intersenting. i mean, JKR was indeed very secretive and mysterious about that veil. she always said that there might be a reason for why she killed off serius, and that might be the reason: show harry the power of the veil. however, i dont really see how harry will manage to take voldemort to the department of mysteries and push him through the veil...
I think that it is a very interesting theory but I highly doubt that Harry is a Horcrux because why would Voldemort go around and try to kill him? That would be like killing himself.
the harry horcrux theory is interesting but i doubt it. i read somewhere that somebody said something like "i think after all this harry has earned a reunion with his parents, sirius, dumbledore, and cedric..." and that made me almost cry!!!!! i dont want harry to die!!! i cried so hard when dumbledore died...i mean for at least an hour i was just sobbing.
| QUOTE (whatevermle @ Jul 20 2005, 05:58 AM) |
| I'm not going to go in the all the reasons why Harry would/could be a Horcrux because there are other threads for that. Basically if Harry IS a Horcrux- he will need to kill himself before Voldermort dies- which in turn makes it impossibble for him to kill Voldermort. HOWEVER- the veil provides us with a type of death where you do not have to be killed- you merely fall through- SO I think that the only way Harry could kill Voldermort is if he falls through the veil and brings Voldermort with him. JKR HAS implied that we will see the veil again and it seems logical to me that this will be the context. |
Wow! Great theory! As to those who think that if Harry were a horcrux, Voldemort wouldn't try and kill him, I have seen some theories where people have stated the belief that Harry may infact be an accidental horcrux; just an idea!
Yeah, I think that Voldermort has no idea that Harry is a Horcrux. As for the difficultly in getting Voldermort to the veil- I think that JKR has her ways- I dont think she would have introduced us to all the secrets contained in the Department of Mysteries (such as the veil and aging and prohpechies etc) in such detail if we were never going to see them again.
Ok, here is a long shot, buuut what if Harry has to dive into the veil in order to obtain and destroy a horcrux? Therefore he is sacrificing himself for the greater good.
Oh and what if Sirius had a horcrux? Do you think that while Harry dives in to destroy a horcrux, he can also save sirius? Or maybe all those souls in the veils are people who have horcruxes?
Oh and what if Sirius had a horcrux? Do you think that while Harry dives in to destroy a horcrux, he can also save sirius? Or maybe all those souls in the veils are people who have horcruxes?
yeah,i think so too. harry might be an accidental horcrux.but wouldnt voldemort know if he has created a horcrux ?i mean that it needs a REAL bad dark wizard to create a horcrux in the first place.do you guyz seriously think voldemort could have made such a mistake ?
if yes, did dumbledore know about it or not ?what exactly did he mean when he said something about "essence divided "?
if yes, did dumbledore know about it or not ?what exactly did he mean when he said something about "essence divided "?
Nice theory, but then Harry will be dead too.
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| (phoenix__tears @ Jul 21 2005, 04:53 PM) the harry horcrux theory is interesting but i doubt it. i read somewhere that somebody said something like "i think after all this harry has earned a reunion with his parents, sirius, dumbledore, and cedric..." and that made me almost cry!!!!! |
I ca'n believ DD DIed, it was devastating.
I think you're right - the veil definitely still has a part to play. Rather than actually force LV himself through the veil, however, I think it more likely that Harry would somehow use the veil to dispose of LV's horcruxes. Rowling said that horcruxes tie one's soul to this earth, making them immortal, so wouldn't it make sense to throw LV's horcruxes into another world to destroy them? How else is Harry going to destroy them - he's not going to get that good at magic in the last book and destroying Slytherin's ring almost killed Dumbledore.
Good thinking!
I like that!
And as for Harry killing Voldemort: I just can't believe he will really hit Voldemort with an Unforgivable. Just because... well... the good guys just can't win using the bad guys weapons... it wouldn't be right. Where is the moral?
Harry just can't go and use dark magic to rid the Dark Lord. He'd better use love... or... I don't know. Acidentally making Voldemort fall through the veil does make sense to me. Or using a mirror to make an Avada Ledavra rebounce upon Voldy... something like that. *sigh*
I don't know.
I hope Harry will survive. And Snape, too.
Flutterflie
I like that!
And as for Harry killing Voldemort: I just can't believe he will really hit Voldemort with an Unforgivable. Just because... well... the good guys just can't win using the bad guys weapons... it wouldn't be right. Where is the moral?
Harry just can't go and use dark magic to rid the Dark Lord. He'd better use love... or... I don't know. Acidentally making Voldemort fall through the veil does make sense to me. Or using a mirror to make an Avada Ledavra rebounce upon Voldy... something like that. *sigh*
I don't know.
I hope Harry will survive. And Snape, too.
Flutterflie
Harry could well be an accidental horcrux - no-one has ever survived the AK curse before so nobody knows what could happen when it backfires.
Besides leaving him with a lightening bolt scar, it transferred some of V's powers to Harry. Why? Because the killing curse did more than just backfire. The curse bounced back on V because of the protection Harry received from his mother's attempt to protect him, since V attempted to kill Harry and it failed it should have killed him instead but did not because of the horcruxes he already had in place. Since V had multiple horcruxes already, and knew how to create them, it certainly could have happened accidentally.
My biggest fear is Harry being the final horcrux and having to die in order to finish off Voldemort for good.
Besides leaving him with a lightening bolt scar, it transferred some of V's powers to Harry. Why? Because the killing curse did more than just backfire. The curse bounced back on V because of the protection Harry received from his mother's attempt to protect him, since V attempted to kill Harry and it failed it should have killed him instead but did not because of the horcruxes he already had in place. Since V had multiple horcruxes already, and knew how to create them, it certainly could have happened accidentally.
My biggest fear is Harry being the final horcrux and having to die in order to finish off Voldemort for good.
First off, I would like to say that I don't believe Harry is a Horcrux. To me, that would be pretty lame. But, I am entitled to my opinion and I am open to the idea because he might be.
Second, I do believe that we haven't seen the last of the veil and I do believe that possibly throwing Voldemort's Horcruxes into the veil will destroy them. Pretty decent idea. My theory on the veil is pretty farfetched. Here it is: Remember that Harry said here heard voices behind the veil. I was wondering if that people who lost their souls still have a voice, like moaning. If this is true, my theory is that what's behind the veil is the people who have suffered the Dementor's Kiss, meaning no soul; like Barty Crouch Jr. So when Sirius fell through, perhaps it was better to tell Harry that he died because it is better to be dead than soulless. Rememer the lokk on Sirius' face before falling through...
Before I answer your topic question, I would like to throw another pice out there. Remember that Slughorn said that you need to say a spell to make a Horcrux. I don't think that Voldemort did that.
But, to answer your question, assuming Harry is a Horcrux, then he probably would have to kill himself to kill Voldemort. But hold on, lets say Harry is a Horcrux and he pushes him through the veil, how would Voldemort be able to come back?
Second, I do believe that we haven't seen the last of the veil and I do believe that possibly throwing Voldemort's Horcruxes into the veil will destroy them. Pretty decent idea. My theory on the veil is pretty farfetched. Here it is: Remember that Harry said here heard voices behind the veil. I was wondering if that people who lost their souls still have a voice, like moaning. If this is true, my theory is that what's behind the veil is the people who have suffered the Dementor's Kiss, meaning no soul; like Barty Crouch Jr. So when Sirius fell through, perhaps it was better to tell Harry that he died because it is better to be dead than soulless. Rememer the lokk on Sirius' face before falling through...
Before I answer your topic question, I would like to throw another pice out there. Remember that Slughorn said that you need to say a spell to make a Horcrux. I don't think that Voldemort did that.
But, to answer your question, assuming Harry is a Horcrux, then he probably would have to kill himself to kill Voldemort. But hold on, lets say Harry is a Horcrux and he pushes him through the veil, how would Voldemort be able to come back?
I agree 100% with this theory, I had the exact same theory, if this turns out to be true then I would like to add that after they go through, Sirius, Harry's parents, Dumbledore & all the people Voldemort ever murdered or had murdered will destroy him (since you aren't really dead just in the land of the dead.
P.S. Harry could be an ACCIDENTAL Horcrux
P.S. Harry could be an ACCIDENTAL Horcrux
I can't see how Harry is a Horcrux it just don't fit, but then there's other threads for that discussion, just want to state out my point of view.
Harry musn't kill himslef before he kills of Voldemort if he's a Horcrux (seeing from your pint of view).
Let us say Harry killed Voldemort with the avada kedavra curse and all the horcruxes are destroyed. Then he can go and destroy the rest of what's left of Voldemort like the rest that was left of him when his Avada Kedavra curse backfired. Then the only peice of Voldemort's soul that's left is the piece inside Harry. Then he could step through the veil or kill him self with a curse.
Wouldn't this be possible?
This was only a solution to this thread that might have been possible, but that doesn't change the fact that I don't believe Harry is a Horcrux, it just don't seem possible to me.
Harry musn't kill himslef before he kills of Voldemort if he's a Horcrux (seeing from your pint of view).
Let us say Harry killed Voldemort with the avada kedavra curse and all the horcruxes are destroyed. Then he can go and destroy the rest of what's left of Voldemort like the rest that was left of him when his Avada Kedavra curse backfired. Then the only peice of Voldemort's soul that's left is the piece inside Harry. Then he could step through the veil or kill him self with a curse.
Wouldn't this be possible?
This was only a solution to this thread that might have been possible, but that doesn't change the fact that I don't believe Harry is a Horcrux, it just don't seem possible to me.
Hi mates!
Dobby's socks, could you please drop by the rules forum(link in my sig)? Double posts are not allowed, nor are one-liners. PLease be more careful next time and you'll avoid mod warnings. Don't want to get on the wrong side of the mods, uh? If you need help, feel free to PM me or any other Prefect of mod and we'll be delighted to help.
Dobby's socks, could you please drop by the rules forum(link in my sig)? Double posts are not allowed, nor are one-liners. PLease be more careful next time and you'll avoid mod warnings. Don't want to get on the wrong side of the mods, uh?
If you need help, feel free to PM me or any other Prefect of mod and we'll be delighted to help.
I've tried talking about this in other horcrux threads, but nobody seemed to care. Hopefully I've found the topic which contains interested people...
I think that if Harry must actually kill himself, this would be an interesting way to do it. However, I don't believe that he needs to kill himself to no longer be a horcrux. With the two horcruxes we've seen destroyed, their shell remained (the diary and the ring still existed after the horcruxes were destroyed). I think that this is a ray of hope for Harry, and that he'll have to kill the physical Voldemort first, forcing Voldemort to try and inhabit his body, which, as Dumbledore demonstrated, causes immense pain for Voldemort to inhabit. I believe that this, combined with Harry finally learning to control his mind, is the way for him to defeat Voldemort.
Can anyone here tell me why they believe Harry must die to destroy the horcrux, even though the control of the mind has been emphasized as the absolute most important thing that Harry could learn?
I think that if Harry must actually kill himself, this would be an interesting way to do it. However, I don't believe that he needs to kill himself to no longer be a horcrux. With the two horcruxes we've seen destroyed, their shell remained (the diary and the ring still existed after the horcruxes were destroyed). I think that this is a ray of hope for Harry, and that he'll have to kill the physical Voldemort first, forcing Voldemort to try and inhabit his body, which, as Dumbledore demonstrated, causes immense pain for Voldemort to inhabit. I believe that this, combined with Harry finally learning to control his mind, is the way for him to defeat Voldemort.
Can anyone here tell me why they believe Harry must die to destroy the horcrux, even though the control of the mind has been emphasized as the absolute most important thing that Harry could learn?
I was thinking the same thing anony-mouse. When/if Harry manages to destroy all the Horcruxes and the final two is himself and Voldemort, then he would only have to kill Voldemort because, like you and Dumbledore in OotP said, Voldemort cannot inhabit Harry because it causes him pain. So if Harry is indeed a Horcrux, then i would assume he could be safe; unless Voldemort kills him of course.
nice to hear that I'm not the only one focusing on that bit. I also think that Occlumancy, and just general self-control will pay a big role in defeating the harry-horcrux, since that's played such a huge role in the past couple of books. Even as Snape was running away, he was yelling at Harry (albeit in an antagonistic way) to master himself, control his mind, or he'd never get anywhere. Possibly the bit of Voldemort, having access to Harry's mind, would try to poison his thoughts against those he loved, so that Voldemort could stand to be in his body?
[COLOR=purple] After reading so many different theories, I am now thinking Harry may be the vehicle for the horcrux instead of the horcrux itself. Maybe his scar is where a part of V's soul was left, this could explain DD's question, "In essence divided?" Once Voldemort is killed, the final horcrux (the scar) would vanish...(this might explain the final word of book seven being scar :0 )
My apoligies but I doubt that Harry has to jump into the veil in order to obtain a horcrux. Unless Voldemort knows what's back there *which I seriously doubt he does* then he wouldn't hide it in there. Placing it back there alone could destroy it and I doubt that he's willing to take that risk. Once again I will say that this is a piece of his soul we're talking about here!!! Plus, he hides his horcruxes in significant places.....what would the veil have to do with Voldemort? And, if Harry jumped back there and it did kill him then he couldn't break the horcrux......and if it killed Harry then wouldn't the horcrux also most likely be destroyed?
My aploigies again but I'm also going to disagree with the fact that Sirius has a horcrux. A limited number of wizards know about horcruxes....and do you see Sirius killing anyone just to remain alive? Sirius is also dead. As sad as it is to admit the veil didn't necessarily kill Sirius.....Bellatrix did with the curse she shot at him. And if the souls in the veil are all people who have horcruxes....then why didn't Voldemort end up back there when he was reduced to almost nothing? Do you really think that all of those people just happen to die in the department of mysteries and all happened to fall through?
I guess that I really wasn't any help and I just shot down other peoples views so sorry! I will try to keep an open mind to all of the possibilities!
My aploigies again but I'm also going to disagree with the fact that Sirius has a horcrux. A limited number of wizards know about horcruxes....and do you see Sirius killing anyone just to remain alive? Sirius is also dead. As sad as it is to admit the veil didn't necessarily kill Sirius.....Bellatrix did with the curse she shot at him. And if the souls in the veil are all people who have horcruxes....then why didn't Voldemort end up back there when he was reduced to almost nothing? Do you really think that all of those people just happen to die in the department of mysteries and all happened to fall through?
I guess that I really wasn't any help and I just shot down other peoples views so sorry! I will try to keep an open mind to all of the possibilities!
very good point gingin but if harry does die then im thinking he will die a hero adn either take voldy with him OR kill himself which inevitably (sp?) kills voldy 
I think that the veil will come back into play in the context of Harry trying to learn more about the horcruxes. I'm pretty sure JKR said in an interview that the veil is there soley for studying death. Since the horcruxes relate to death and immortality, the veil might hold clues to them that could help Harry here.
On another note, I do not think that Harry will have to pull Voldemort into the veil, and I will be traumetized if Harry has to die to kill Voldemort - so obviously I don't think Harry is a horcrux. Maybe Voldemort will try to use avada kedavra on Harry again and it will rebound again because their wands won't do battle? Like in OotP?
On another note, I do not think that Harry will have to pull Voldemort into the veil, and I will be traumetized if Harry has to die to kill Voldemort - so obviously I don't think Harry is a horcrux. Maybe Voldemort will try to use avada kedavra on Harry again and it will rebound again because their wands won't do battle? Like in OotP?
| QUOTE (feetpeet @ Jul 19 2005, 06:09 PM) |
| It might be, and that would make sense if that last book ended there, because they mystery of that department has still yet to have been solved! |
yeah that is the most highly anticipated part of the 7nth book for me finally for the author to lift the veil and uncover all the magical devices and artifacts and devices stored in the departement of mysteries and give the story a touck of mystery along with the one of the quest of harry finding the horcruxes. it will depen the story so much and it seems to be the peek of it
really i would be disappointed if she didn't....
she can't just patch some stuff up (like the veil) but i realise that so much can't fit in a sole book.....
so I wonder... will she have to sacrifice some part of the story....
or to make it part of the scenery of the last battle (even highly anticipated part) between harry and voldemort... hopefully being somewhere meaningful like the ministry... (or hogwarts... just a thought)
Yeah, I think that things like the veil will have to be uncovered in the process of the rest of the story, like having an important battle there. Otherwise the book will be about a million pages long. Not that I would mind, but I don't think that JKR wants to do that much writing 
I just wanted to say that I am new to this site and I am trying to read all the forums in here so I do say sorry if I repeat anything.
I just wanted to comment on the locket. I do believe the locket that is a horcruxe, but I don't think it is still at Sirus Blacks' house. In book 6 it said that Mondungus Fletcher was stealing things from the house and selling them, so what if he also took the locket from the house and sold it. Harry may have to go to the prison and ask Fletcher about that.
I just wanted to comment on the locket. I do believe the locket that is a horcruxe, but I don't think it is still at Sirus Blacks' house. In book 6 it said that Mondungus Fletcher was stealing things from the house and selling them, so what if he also took the locket from the house and sold it. Harry may have to go to the prison and ask Fletcher about that.
as far as i can tell, a lot of the theories about the locket tend to point in the direction of the locket that harry found at the black house when they were cleaning it actually belonging to harry because it seems to fit the description of it that we hear in hbp more accurately(larger, heavier) and since most people are thinking the rab is regulus black, it makes sense that it would be in his home. obviously, he was killed, by voldemort or otherwise, before he could destroy it.
i hope the veil comes back, because i desire to find out what really happened to sirius, if people can come back out the way they came, if harry can throw his two-way mirror down there and talk to sirius, if people stuck there suffer, b/c after azkaban, sirius shouldn't have to suffer anymore. This should come back into play and i hope all my questions are answered.
I was reading the theories section and it said "What if someone sticks an arm through the veil?" Well assuming you're supposed to die going through it, wouldn't that explain Dumbledore's dead arm? It would be the perfect protection for a Horcrux, nobody being able to actually go in and get it. Or it could have gone there because Voldemort didn't know how to make them properly the first time, after all, splitting your soul probably doesn't mean it's living very well, so the bits of his soul might be dead... Meh. Anyway, although I don't think so, the way Harry could be a Horcrux without Voldemort saying the spell:
Well murder is what splits the soul, and then if you choose to, you can make it into a Horcrux right? So maybe the Avada Kevadra spell fires a bit of your soul at them, which then rips theirs out, like ionisation of atoms mebbe?? But because Harry didn't die, the bit of the soul could have stuck to him, which is also how he gained some of Voldemort's powers (i.e. Parseltongue, etc).
I had a few other ideas too, which I've just forgotten, but I'll add them in when I remember. Oh and the whole "people behind the veil have no souls" thing. Could be one of those things that's worse than death that Dumbledore kept talking about, and the soul would be dead anyway. I really have no idea what I'm talking about, so I'll just stop now.
Well murder is what splits the soul, and then if you choose to, you can make it into a Horcrux right? So maybe the Avada Kevadra spell fires a bit of your soul at them, which then rips theirs out, like ionisation of atoms mebbe?? But because Harry didn't die, the bit of the soul could have stuck to him, which is also how he gained some of Voldemort's powers (i.e. Parseltongue, etc).
I had a few other ideas too, which I've just forgotten, but I'll add them in when I remember. Oh and the whole "people behind the veil have no souls" thing. Could be one of those things that's worse than death that Dumbledore kept talking about, and the soul would be dead anyway. I really have no idea what I'm talking about, so I'll just stop now.
Maybe Harry Has to chuck the horcruxes into the Veil?? After all what ever goes into the Veil cant come back out again! Or so we think? Maybe Sirius isnt dead? Usually a picture or something comes back to replace them but not with Sirius. It will forever be a mystery as to what is behind it! But I am sure Harry has to distroy the Horcruxes that way! 
i'm not sure where i heard this, but i heard that the archway is like a gateway, behind which is the border between life and death. maybe this is possible, i'm not entirely sure...
i've a feeling that the only people who know 100% what happens when you fall through the veil are in no state to tell the wizarding world. to me, even studying the veil is pointless, because you never know what's beyond it without going through it.
i think the Death Chamber could be used as a scene for a battle or quest or something, but i doubt it has anything to do with the horcruxes. there was nothing in there apart from the archway, so there was nowhere to hide a horcrux. and then there's the fact that i can't see how the Death Chamber means anything to LV that would make him want to hide a horcrux there.
i also doubt there's a horcrux in the veil, because whatever passes through is lost, which means his soul piece would either die, or at least be irretrievable. IMO, that would be a real waste of a horcrux.
well, this is just my opinion, but i don't think the veil and the horcruxes are linked - then again, i could be completely wrong.
i've a feeling that the only people who know 100% what happens when you fall through the veil are in no state to tell the wizarding world. to me, even studying the veil is pointless, because you never know what's beyond it without going through it.
i think the Death Chamber could be used as a scene for a battle or quest or something, but i doubt it has anything to do with the horcruxes. there was nothing in there apart from the archway, so there was nowhere to hide a horcrux. and then there's the fact that i can't see how the Death Chamber means anything to LV that would make him want to hide a horcrux there.
i also doubt there's a horcrux in the veil, because whatever passes through is lost, which means his soul piece would either die, or at least be irretrievable. IMO, that would be a real waste of a horcrux.
well, this is just my opinion, but i don't think the veil and the horcruxes are linked - then again, i could be completely wrong.
I'm glad someones thinking along the same path as I am wtih the Department of Mysteries and the veil, but I also think the door which Harry could not open and which Dumbledore said:
There is a room in the Department of Mysteries, that is kept locked at all times. It contains a force that is at once more wonderful and more terrible than death, than human intelligence, than forces of nature. It is also, perhaps the most mysterious of the many subjects for study that reside there. It is the power held within that room that Harry possess in such quantities and which Voldemort has not at all. That power took Harry to save Sirius. That power also saved Harry from possession by Voldemort, because he could not bear to reside in a body so full of the force he detests.
I think this will come back into play.
I also have a theory about Harry having to kill Voldemort. Dumbledore said there are different ways in which to kill someone. To physically kill someone with violence or kill them with love. Voldemort never knew the love of a mother like Harry. Tom Riddles hate gave birth to Lord Voldemort. I think Harry will have to kill Lord Voldemort to save Tom Riddle. HARRY IS NOT A MURDERER
There is a room in the Department of Mysteries, that is kept locked at all times. It contains a force that is at once more wonderful and more terrible than death, than human intelligence, than forces of nature. It is also, perhaps the most mysterious of the many subjects for study that reside there. It is the power held within that room that Harry possess in such quantities and which Voldemort has not at all. That power took Harry to save Sirius. That power also saved Harry from possession by Voldemort, because he could not bear to reside in a body so full of the force he detests.
I think this will come back into play.
I also have a theory about Harry having to kill Voldemort. Dumbledore said there are different ways in which to kill someone. To physically kill someone with violence or kill them with love. Voldemort never knew the love of a mother like Harry. Tom Riddles hate gave birth to Lord Voldemort. I think Harry will have to kill Lord Voldemort to save Tom Riddle. HARRY IS NOT A MURDERER
The problem that I have with the theory of Harry being a horcux and using the veil not only to destroy the remaining horcruxes but somehow force Voldemort through it and then having to go through it himself is that it reminds me too much of the end of Terminator 2. At the end of the movie John, Sarah and Arnie throw the microchip, the hand and force the evil Terminator into molten metal and then Arnie himself is lowered in so that there is no technolgy to create the machines in the first place.
In other theories there are potential storylines that are being compared to Lord of the Rings and Star Wars. Do we really need another theory that could be compared to another known movie.
The veil will be mentioned and we will know the secret behind it but along with the prospect of Harry dying I really don't want the this theory to be correct and if it is I would be disappointed.
In other theories there are potential storylines that are being compared to Lord of the Rings and Star Wars. Do we really need another theory that could be compared to another known movie.
The veil will be mentioned and we will know the secret behind it but along with the prospect of Harry dying I really don't want the this theory to be correct and if it is I would be disappointed.
| QUOTE (marie1 @ Nov 7 2005, 04:18 PM) |
| < There is a room in the Department of Mysteries, that is kept locked at all times. It contains a force that is at once more wonderful and more terrible than death, than human intelligence, than forces of nature. It is also, perhaps the most mysterious of the many subjects for study that reside there. It is the power held within that room that Harry possess in such quantities and which Voldemort has not at all. That power took Harry to save Sirius. That power also saved Harry from possession by Voldemort, because he could not bear to reside in a body so full of the force he detests. I think this will come back into play. I also have a theory about Harry having to kill Voldemort. Dumbledore said there are different ways in which to kill someone. To physically kill someone with violence or kill them with love. Voldemort never knew the love of a mother like Harry. Tom Riddles hate gave birth to Lord Voldemort. I think Harry will have to kill Lord Voldemort to save Tom Riddle. HARRY IS NOT A MURDERER> |
Ooooo i really like everything you said. Especially the part about Harry having to kill lord voldemort to save Tom Riddle. I don't know how plausible that is but it would really fit in with the whole emphasis on love and compassion and if Harry actually kills someone it could change him. I think you just might have something there . . .killing voldemort with love and brining back Tom Riddle Nice one. And although everyone is bashing people (in a nice way
) about comparing Harry Potter to other works in similar genres i think thats one of the best ways to get clues. Lets face it as creative as JKR is she still is going to end up using ideas from other books or movies its only natural most of the things we read or watch are just recycled works with a twist and different wrtitng styles. And the idea of Voldemort being able to redeem himself is almost Darth Vader esque and i like it!!! Ok as to the veil and the department of mysteries it absolutly has to be included in the next book. There were too many things left un-explained and i think JKR might be saving it for something big. Whoever talked about Dumbledores "dead" hand and maybe putting it through the veil i really like that theory but i don't understand how DD could get into the DoM in a weakened state to destroy the horcrux.
I really can't see Harry dstroying all the horcruxes on his own so i really like the idea of throwing them into the veil but i don't know how much i think thats going to happen.
Anyway i'm almost certain (and everyone on this board helped me reach this conclusion. . .thanks!!) that the veil and the DoM will be explained or at least come into play in the next book. we still have the door that wouldn't open (i personally think thats some foreshadowing from JKR to tell us its something that important and will play a larger role later.) the veil where Sirius died which has yet to be explaied and the continuing refrences to the DoM (harry talking about the headless statue, hermoine mentioning the time turners being destroyed etc)that lead me to believe it will be back in a big way. Also for some reason i think the DoM frightens Voldemort in a way because the things they study are the things he is most afraid of.
| QUOTE (<ozsunny2> @ Jul 19 2005, 05:50 AM) |
| Well JKR said in one of her interviews that the veil would be intorduced again, and it didn't come into place in this book, so it has be in the next one. |
yes, I remember reading that in an interview somewhere, however I cannot remember which interview it was....
Anyway, I think that if the veil IS NOT re-introduced in Book 7, it will totally defeat the purpose of introducing it in the first place. If that happens, Sirius might as well have died from Avada Kedavra! There is obviously more to the veil than that it kills people. What about the voices? Were those dead people? What happens when you go into the veil? Can you return? Can you speak to the voices in the veil? Are there any horcruxes back there? haha...
So, I'm waiting to find out.....
_daviD
| QUOTE (Flutterflie @ Jul 26 2005, 11:35 AM) |
| Good thinking! I like that! And as for Harry killing Voldemort: I just can't believe he will really hit Voldemort with an Unforgivable. Just because... well... the good guys just can't win using the bad guys weapons... it wouldn't be right. Where is the moral? Harry just can't go and use dark magic to rid the Dark Lord. He'd better use love... or... I don't know. Acidentally making Voldemort fall through the veil does make sense to me. Or using a mirror to make an Avada Ledavra rebounce upon Voldy... something like that. *sigh* |
He could use both, love and the veil.
Somebody mentioned the locked room. Presumably it contains love, the power Voldemort cannot bear and the power that has saved Harry often before. Why is this door locked? So that nobody can get in there? Or perhaps that, what is in there, can't get out, for it is too wonderful and too terrible for a normal being to bear?
What if Harry freed this power from the room? He wouldn't be affected too much, because he already posseses this power on a high degree. But what about Voldemort, who couldn't even stay in Harry's body when Harry was filled with emotion? How would he feel if the whole department of mystery was filled with this power?
I think it would be even worse than death for him. And that is what he will have to understand in the end: That there are things worse than death, just like Dumbledore always told him.
So if everything was filled with this power, where can he go? How can he escape whatever pain it may cause him?
The only way left would be the veil, which would also mean death for him. But I think this would be a fitting death. Harry wouldn't be a murderer but he would still be a cause for the death. Voldemort would choose death himself in an attempt to escape a power that is so terrible for him, that he would rather face his biggest fear than bear it any longer.
I hope you understand what I mean.
Okay, so I think that the reason the veil in OotP was so unexplained is because Harry is going to have to push Voldemort in there. I know it kinda sounds dumb, but does Harry really have the power to KILL him? and why else would she not explain it. Like not AT all. I dont know I just think that the veil has more meaning to it and that it will be envolved somehow with the downfall of Voldemort.
| QUOTE (misshaunted390 @ Sep 20 2005, 01:25 PM) |
| i've a feeling that the only people who know 100% what happens when you fall through the veil are in no state to tell the wizarding world. to me, even studying the veil is pointless, because you never know what's beyond it without going through it. |
Here goes some ideas.
Through the series, Sirius never apparate. In fact, none of the marauders apparate. (Maybe i'm wrong, but i don't remember any of them apparating). The fact is that it's not even stated that they could apparate.
What would happen if someone capable of apparate throw himself through the veil? Or maybe with a portkey?
I'm sure that the veil will be used to get rid of the horcruxs, but it would be difficult for Harry to persuade Voldemort to stand near the veil, so he can push him...
I've read that the locked room it's not locked at all... it just has to be open from inside. Such demostration of love, like sacrificing his own life for the others, may get Harry into that room, after throwing himself through the veil. (In the case that he's a Horcrux).
From Argentina,
Diego
I think throwing Horcruxes into the veil may do more harm than good. We don't know a whole lot about the veil, for all we know its another plain of existance and once you enter you can never return...if that were the case, then throwing a Horcrux in doesn't solve anything. It just transfers it from one area of space to another, which may be beyond the reach of our physical being. They wouldn't be destroyed, they'd just be somewhere else unatainable unless one were to go in...but they couldn't come back...which would mean that they'd start a whole new life or continue their current one in that "dimension"
If it does bring instant death, would throwing an object in get destroyed? The soul wouldn't be destroyed, just the object...or not be destroyed...
I guess we'll just have to see
If it does bring instant death, would throwing an object in get destroyed? The soul wouldn't be destroyed, just the object...or not be destroyed...
I guess we'll just have to see
| QUOTE (DiegoHork @ Feb 13 2006, 10:02 PM) |
| I've read that the locked room it's not locked at all... it just has to be open from inside. Such demostration of love, like sacrificing his own life for the others, may get Harry into that room, after throwing himself through the veil. (In the case that he's a Horcrux). From Argentina, Diego |
But if Harry throws himself through the veil will he be able to come back?? I'm not sure Harry would go through the veil.Maybe the locked room can be opened when the prophecy is fulfilled?
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