Still holds true does it not ?

Did Voldie curse that position ?

Hi everyone, this is my first post so just wanted to say hello.

About the DADA post, I was wondering about that when Dumbledore said

yea i know i was vey confused when i read this. I wouldn't put it past voldy to curse the position but i always thought quirrel had been there a while i mean when harry he wasn't announced and other older students knew quirrel didn't they? Maybey rowling made a mistake?

Rowling making a mistake wouldn't supprise me. So many times before it had happened. Well you'd think that if there was just one exception he would say....

I think Quirrell was a new teacher, I remember Voldemort saying something that he made a long journey when he met him (that is, a part of his soul) . He persuaded him to come to the dark side. Then he started teaching at Hogwarts with Voldie in his turban.

There is something to this DADA position curse. If dd knew of the so called curse on his DADA teacher position. Why would he finally give it to Snape? (Just more proof DD and Snape were in league)

I suppose Voldy could have put a curse on the position until the time that DD is no longer Headmaster or something. But it does seem a bit odd...I wonder if it is as simple as that...

well it is possible, but it is probably definatley cursed since we have no idea where snape is and he wil probably go to azkaban for killing dumbledore. and why would voldemort want it to be cursed, and in book 1 he was using quirrel so it doesnt neccasarily have to be him

I'm sure Voldemort cursed the position, and Quirrel was a new teacher. Dumbledore himself said no teacher remained more than a year. This means there have been about 30 different DADA teachers... it's just a lot!

The position was most certainly cursed...and Quirrell was a new teacher, too!!!
I remember Fred and George telling Harry that no DADA teacher has lasted for more than a year in the previous books...and Dumbledore made it clear himself!!! So i don't think there is any reason for us to possibly assume that JKR made a mistake...there's just no other way to go about it basically!! However...if you're still not satisfied... read the Philosopher's stone!!

From GOF:

If I remember Quirrell was already there since before, I suppose since he had Voldemort on his head it sort of didnt count, but Im not sure

I'd say that's almost definitely the case - and it leads to another question: Did James or Lily Potter ever hold the position?

I highly doubt that Lily or James taught, due to their ages. They were fresh out of Hogwarts but 3 years when they met their demise.

But Quirrell was taken on when he was very young too wasn't he?

Not doubting you're probably right of course, but thought I'd put it out there

Hagrid said, that Quirrell took year off right? So, actually he could have taught 1 year before taking a year off and then year after his year off, which would be Harry's first year in Hogwarts. So, two years but not in a row.

Have you realized how many DADA teachers there have been in history of Hogwarts, I just wonder what kind of things have taken all of them. And most important, have we seen any of them in other situations.

Maybe another thing to bear in mind is that this position would normally have a high turnover anyway - anyone good enough to teach DADA must have faced danger many times and are therefore more likely to die sooner than someone who teaches Divination say.

Hi all, I'm new here, but I'll toss my opinion into the mix.
What if Quirrel was a teacher in a different subject? That might explain why he wasn't introduced, why he was spoken of as a teacher for multiple years, and why he didn't lose the teaching position untill harry's first year.

The thing that I dont understand is that DD says they cannt keep a DADA teacher for more than one year since Voldemort came to ask for the job; HOWEVER, Quirrel was a teacher for more than one year (as DADA) as we found out in philosophers stone...so that would mean that voldy came to ask for the job when Harry was about to go to school 11 years after his apparent demise??? since that would be the only time that it would make sense because it was only after Quirrel that DADA tachers only made it for one year...but if this is true Voldy was almost nothing..there is NO WAY that he could go into DD's office to ask him for a job if he doesnt even have a body...so is this an overlook by JKR??? or is there more to the story that we do not yet know??

Quirrell definitely isn't new to Hogwarts when Harry goes there for the first time. We have as evidence of this 1. Voldemort's words saying he was a teacher at Hogwarts when he met him, and 2. Hagrid saying to Harry after he met Quirrell for the first time:

"He was fine while he was studying' outta books but then he took a year off ter get some first-hand experience.. They say he met vampires in the Black Forest, and there was a nasty bit o' trouble with a hag-- never been the same since. Scared of the students, scared of his own subject--"

We also know from Fred and George and Dumbledore that no DADA teacher has lasted more than a year. Now it's tempting to reconcile the differences by saying, like Josh Kyzneg does, that Quirrell was a teacher at Hogwarts but in another subject. I thought that too originally. So when Harry came to Hogwarts for the first time, Quirrell began teaching DADA and that was why he only lasted a year in that teaching position. But it doesn't seem plausible, given Hagrid's words "...scared of his own subject--". I mean, what other subject than Defence Against the Dark Arts would seem scary after you'd met a vampire and had trouble with a hag? I think it's just an inconsistency on Rowling's part.

As for the position being cursed or influenced by Voldemort, that much is made clear when Dumbledore says:

"'Oh, he definitely wanted the Defence Against the Dark Arts job' ... 'The aftermath of our little meeting PROVED THAT [emphasis added]. You see, we have never been able to keep a Defence Against the Dark Arts teacher for longer than a year since I refused the post to Lord Voldemort.'"

I agree with Josh Kyzneg that Quirrel must have been a teacher of another subject before he took the time off that mirz mentioned, met LV, and came back.

Perhaps his position in the other subject had been filled, and the only one open to come back to was the DADA position.

Hagrid's statement about being afraid of his own subject that Mimsy-Porpington found would still fit, because Quirrel would have been afraid of the Dark Arts and probably only accepted the new position because LV made him.

The position is most definitely cursed... Face it, Snape was hardly new to the school, but as soon as he hit the DADA position, he was a goner...

My prediction on this, though, is that after Harry defeats LV, he will become the first DADA professor to hold the position for more than a year. He won't want to be an Auror, because that would mean being a ministry stooge, and they couldn't possibly hold his age against him, if he defeats the most powerful evil wizard in ages. Who would be better to teach it than Harry.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here, and argue against the position being cursed...

1. Just because Dumbledore said it, doesn't make it true. In fact, DD was the first to say "fear of something only makes it stronger" - if DD feared that the position is cursed, maybe it became a self-fulfilling prophesy instead on an actual curse.

2. If DD really felt this was a genuine "curse", maybe he should have just hired Bill Weasley to break it instead of dealing with an annual turnover!

3. We as readers know very little about the DADA position before SS/PS - maybe the characters have been exagerating a bit in that the turnover for the job is yearly. Maybe Quarrel lasted 2 years - with a year's hiatus. There seems to be a lot of exaggeration in the wizarding world - just read the Quibbler!

i think it is cursed because Dumbledore did not allow Voldemort to be the DADA teacher. i found this intruiging discovery while reading that part of the book: its the memory scene when voldemort requests to be a teacher at hogwarts and he says to dumbledore "Greatness inspires envy, envy engenders spite, spite spawns lies"
this particular quote reminded me greatly of the scene in star wars episode 1 where yoda tells anakin
"Fear is the path to the dark side, fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering"
i know that what yoda and voldemort said are different things but the way they said it just sounded similar.

I still believe that the position was cursed by LV, although LaStranger made some very good points.

They are, however all based on the thought that DD was disturbed about this and wanted to change it. On the contrary, DD hardly seems phased by this at all, and finds it a minor inconvenience to have to find a new teacher each year. DD never does anything without a reason. He is one of the most powerful wizards ever, and is probably more than able to take a curse off the position himself.

Remember, we are assuming that LV wanted the position to be able to get into Hogwarts and make more horcruxes. If DD acknowledged the curse, he'd be acknowledging that he knew that LV placed it. He would not want to do anything to let LV think that he's on to his plan. Leaving the curse in place could just be his way to keep LV from realizing that he knows about the horcruxes.

if the spot was cursed, i would have thought that DD would have been able to break the curse himself. isnt he ment to be stronger or somthing. and also "he knows Voldy's style since he taught him".

Dumbledore may be a powerful wizard however he's not perfect. remember it took him a long time to figure out that Voldemort made more than one horcrux, he had an idea but he was not sure of it until Harry could obtain Slughorn's memory to prove his theory. same with the jinxed DADA teacher he knows it's a problem but probably knows its the least of his problems.

I still believe that DD knew that there was a curse, could have, had he wanted to, removed it himself, but does not wamt to.

The more that LV thinks he's pulled the wool over DD and the Order's eyes, the more power they have to stop him. He thinks that no one knows what he's up to. If they removed his curse, he might suspect they knew why he put it there, and watch over his horcruxes more.

The curse is little more than a minor inconvenience to the headmaster, but serves a purpose for Harry and the others who look for the horcruxes.

i think that DD finally gave the DADA teacher position to Snape because he needed Slughorn memory. DD knew Slughorn was a potion maker so he gave him Snap's position, in the other hand, he couldn't or he didn't want to get rid of Snape so he took advantage of the fact that the DADA position was free so DD gave it to him.

i read (i don't remember where) that JK said that there was going to be a teacher that would take twice the DADA position. i think maybe it could be Lupin or Snape again.[/COLOR]

Hagrid said something about Quirrel spending a year in the black forest. Then he came back to Hogwarts. So that is why people like Percy knew him and why he wasnt introduced at the feast. So Quirrel only lasted one year then went back afterwards so he had one more year

About Quirell: I think it's very possible that Quirrel taught for one year, wandered around, and then came back to teach again. Out of everything suggested, that, to me, makes the most sense. I don't think a curse would give allowences- it was set so no one could hold the position for more then a year.

As for whether Voldemort set the curse:I know JKR likes her tricks, but
we don't have to question every minor sentence in the series! This book was our last chance to get the answer to this curse-on-the-DADA-postition mystery.

And as to why it hasn't been lifted: Maybe, just MAYBE no one CAN lift it. Just because Dumbledore is (/was) a greater wizard then Voldemort doesn't mean that Voldemort can't think up some weird curse that no one knows the counter-curse for. I mean, Voldemort is a genious too...

I tend to agree that Quirell most likely taught the subject for one year then went on leave for one year to learn more about the subject and then returned to teach for another year. Or he taught another subject went on leave and then came back to find his subject filled and was offered the DADA postition.

I would also like to point out with the curse that every student that had passed through that school since V placed the curse would have had a very disruptive learning of DADA including the Maruaders and Lily.

Good point, Rory!!! I remember other characters making note of the lack of continuity of instruction the students have had because of the many varied teachers who have taught the subject.

Having had Lupin was probably the only saving grace the trio has had. Think of Quirrel/LV who would not have taught them anything worthwhile... Lockhart who was an idiot... Lupin who was a great teacher... Moody/Crouch who also would not have taught them anything that would help them defeat LV... their lost year with Umbridge (worse than nothing - Harry learned nothing, even though he was able to help the others)... and Snape, although he may have attempted to teach them, their mutual hate for eachother stood in the way of a good solid year of training.

Perhaps a secondary goal of the curse, other than keeping he position open for LV to eventually step in, is to keep future wizards untrained in DADA.

I agree with Rory and Xandra about Quirrel coming back after a year of absence.

The curse is a bit weird. I think Jo Rowling may have regretted it. It means that there must have been a different DADA teacher every year since 1956. Dumbledore must have used up all the available wizards and witches and run out of candidates long before now!

Hey I have a pretty good answer I think.

Since Qurrel was possessed by Voldemort he was probably able to keep the job.(and it must have been before he ever got the job at hogwarts, or else people would hav enoticed the change within him) I mean, I doubt Voldemort would curse it for EVERYBODY, cause, he would have the chance of getting the job, and he wouldnt curse himself. So I am thinking that since all of voldemort was in Qurrel, Qurrel was able to keep the job for multiple years.

Thats what I think at least, it makes a bit of sense. I really hope no one else has said this though. (I got lazy and didnt read the whole thread)

cheese puff?

That's a very good point Cheeser! Voldemort would not have cursed himself out of the job and it might have enabled Quirrel to come back!
The amount of teachers is still staggering, though.
Makes you wonder who is going to do the job next year.

I'm not sure if Voldemort cursed the position. All it said that no teacher has lasted more than a year at Hogwarts after he had been rejected the job.

But if you think about it, the teachers decided to leave themselves:

Quirrel: He knew he wasn't going to last long, and he knew that Voldemort wanted to kill Harry, who was newly attending Hogwarts. So when he accepted to share his body with Voldemort, he accepted the job to DADA and knew he was going to be killed.

Lockheart: He shouldn't have been stupid enough to use Ron's wand. So that's all his fault there. Choosing to use Ron's screwed up wand.

Lupin: He resigned, so I don't need to explain huh?

"Moody": Barty Crough Junior knew he wasn't going to last long. He knew he would be fired after a year or so. It was his choice.

Umbridge: The Ministry's scared of Dumbledore. She must've known she wasn't going to last long. What ministry worker would wanna work at Hogwarts?

Snape: If Dumbledore's death was planned, he knew he'd run poff toward the end. This was planned.

i dont think vd cursed it i think it happened magicaly because vd is such a powerful wizard ever since he was denied the job every other teacher only lasted a year so i wounder if in the last book if hogwarts opens who will it be who gets the job and will they leave after one year

yes i think he cursed the positiob because Dumbledore agreed with that and they always had to get a new teacher each year since voldemort was denied it

I agree entirely (I actually started a thread about this exact topic but it seemed to cross over into too many others.. so here it is again, including why DD gave it to Snape finally and the implications of the curse:
QUOTING FROM PREVIOUS POST:

"The DADA position's curse seems to have been overlooked considerably (especially by the characters in the book) in relation to Snapes 'betrayal" of killing Dumbledore.

Many factors have been placed to add to the confusion about Snape's true motivations, including the big one of the Unbreakable Vow (which I will get to in a minute), but the fact that this was the year DD decided to give Snape the DADA position seems to be quite poinient (and also makes me think that another reason he had never given Snape the position earlier was because he infact wanted Snape to remain at the school as long as possible [which would not have happened if he was given the DADA job] rather than that he didnt trust Snape - he states repeated that he does trust Snape - saying in HBP "I trust Severus Snape completely".. if he trusts him completely then he would not have been having reservations about giving him the DADA job because he thought it would cause a relapse, so the only reason must be because of the curse). If anyone, DD knows that any DADA teacher is doomed to leave the school by the end of the school year, and it is a very powerful curse when we look at what has transpired to make it come true in the past (Quirrel's possession by Volde; the opening of the COS (even if the reason was self-inflicted by Lockhardt, it was because he was down there and trying to get out in his own pathetic, selfish way); Lupin's unmasking as a werewolf; Moody's 'kidnapping' by a deatheater; Umbridge's encounter with centaurs) - was it the curse at play in all these cases?

Anyway, the point is that, as Harry says towards the beginning of HBP "..Snape'll be gone by the end of the year.. that jobs jinxed; no one's lasted more than a year". DD also knows this fact, and yet he still gave the job to Snape: ie, DD knew that Snape, too, would be gone by the end of the year.

So now the question is: why? Well, I hope we find out in the next book I or will be tortured for the rest of my days.. but here is one theory I have thought of:

Snape informed DD about the unbreakable vow that he had made with Narcissa (whether DD was in on this as well is a point to consider also (see below)... he does at times seem to know about just about everything that he 'needs to'...), and therefore because of the situation Snape had got himself in (or had put himself in) DD knew that one way or another Snape would be leaving Hogwarts by the end of the school year. Again, we return to the power of the curse, and whether it may have played a role in Snape's making of the vow as well. Snape already knew of Volde's mission for Draco ("It so happens I know of the plan; I am one of the few the Dark Lord has told") before Narcissa arrived at his home with Bellatrix, so what is to say he had not informed DD of this plan, and DD had instructed Snape to make the Vow so as to solidify the perception by Volde and his crew that Snape was still on their side.

I am not sure exactly how important is was to DD that Draco not become a murderer, but if it was that important this may also have been part of the plan; for all we know Snape has murdered already back in his Death Eater days (of course I speculate here too - is there any proof?), and did not stand to 'lose' so much if forced to murder again. Perhaps once Snape informed DD of LV's mission for Draco, DD instructed Snape to make the Vow with Narcissa, knowing that Narcissa would call on Snape for help (Snape being "...Lucius's old friend.." and the only adult contact that any Death Eater has at Hogwarts, it seems like an obvious move for a distressed, frightened mother). I am sure that Snape was expecting the visit, and seemed very ready to help and make the Vow.

Of course, all this, I guess I have to admit, pre-supposes that DD essentially planned his own death (and I definately believe that DD will not 'return from the dead', or that his death will turn out to be in some way be a hoax or a trick).. this is a tough point to reconcile, but possibly we find it difficult because of our own perception of our mortality. DD always maintained that death was "the next great adventure", and that Harry's life is much more important than his own. He spent the year preparing Harry for his final challenges (tracking down the remaining horcruxes and killing Voldemort), even taking him along to search one out to illustrate exactly what kind of difficulties Harry will be facing in these tasks.

And finally, I don't think JKR would have killed of DD one book before the end without a very good reason (beyond keeping us glued waiting for the answer to this massive question). His death is an integral part of Harry's journey; possibly the final coming of age Harry needed before facing his final tasks, for with DD always at his side or infront of him, protecting him and shielding him from harm as he has done for the series (I know, Harry has faced a great deal of harm and potential death, but I hope you know what I mean here), Harry may have lacked that final drive and sense of self/purpose that he needs to succeed. I endure this waiting period more believing than not the Snape will turn out in the end (even if it is somewhat begrudginly) to be a good guy and help Harry to fulfil his destiny"

phew!

I think my last post was long enough so a reply is more appropriate than an edit.

Replying to Harry_4LyF.. this is a touch point to argue: whether the teachers left of their own volitino or whether it was the curse that "pushed" them to leave. I believe the latter.

IN the magical world a lot of stuff happens by magic that prompts wizards to make decisions - which raise the "destiny/fate Vs free will" arguement that has been raging for more than 3 millennia. If we are presented with a situation that gives us only one choice , do we still have free will? It is far too complex to enter into here, but I think the curse acts in that kind of way: it "sets up" (for want of a better term) situations whereby the only "choice" is to leave the DADA position. (whether it be via death, as in Quirrel's case, by incapacity (as Lockhart), by resigning (Lupin had no choice once the news of his 'furry little problem' came out); Moody never got a choice cause he never actually taught in the position; DD only "let" Umbridge take the position (I believe) to prove his point beyond doubt through experience (ie that the Ministry was wrong and should butt out of Hogwarts business - he says that "Fudge will soon wish he had never dislodged me from Hogwarts, I promise you.", thus making him (Fudge) regret driving him out of the school; DD knows better than anyone that experience is always the best teacher), and my last posts discusses why Snape was given the job.

JKR has used the curse for many reasons: to change teachers (so as to give a variety of wizards the opportunity to be involved in arguably the most important subject in Harry's curriculum), to demonstrate LV's power and what he might do if denied something, and to provide an environment for Dumbledores Army to come into existance. Finally, it provided precedent in the canon for Snape to be exited from the school as well.

Basically, the curse is not the primary source for teachers leaving; it creates the environment, or lays out the canvas, for each of the teachers to be outed based on their personalities, their situations, and what is going on at the school. As I said before, I think it is a very powerful curse as it almost "thinks for itself", applying what it needs based on the circumstances.

PS: the issue with Quirrel is a sticky one.. I do think this might be a mistake, as we definately know he was a teacher at Hogwarts before Harry started, and it does seem that he was the DADA teacher as Hagrid mentions he took a year off to get hands on experience (as someone else metioned earlier)... to me this means first hand experience in a subject trhat he had previously only studied out of books.. hmmmmm

Oh yes!he certainly did curse the post.Voldie came from a long way just to get that job.But when Dumbledore refused it obviously he got angry.He must have thought that no one should get that job other than himself.As for Quirrel he was a new teacher at Hogwarts.But what matters me is Voldie must have told him not go after that job since he had cursed it.Anyway I just told my doubt.

I think he definatley cursed th position but i think he did it urley out o spite and anger that he was denyed the position. I perosnally found it incredibly annoying that Luin had to leave Hogwarts but its not my book so

I'm pretty sure he did, because what else is the reason for the position being cursed and stuff? I guess he could have done magic without actually knowing it, like he was so angry that something happened (like when you are a kid wizard and you can't really control your powers).

I believe that the DADA post was cursed by LV. I realize the Quirrel being it's professor for more than one year doesn't fit, but JKR's been known to mess up with numbers and dates so let's give her a little slack. Sometimes things occur to you later and you really want to put them in. I thought the cursing of DADA teachers was an interesting bit and it allowed JKR to add a new character in each book that would shape Harry.