I am halfway through reading hbp for the second time, and I've just thought of something. What was Wormtail doing for Snape? He was put there for a reason, not just to be Snape's slave and I think that LV is using wormail to spy on Snape. This would mean that LV does not trust snape as much as the other DEs think. Clearly Wormtail will appear in book seven, perhaps fighting against lupin/he saves harry's life by killing greyback, which would clear up the lifedept.

I have to say that I wondered about this as well when he wasn't mentioned again by the end of the book.

LV had made it pretty clear that he doesn't think a lot of Wormtail, so I don't know why he'd suddenly be so important to spy on Snape. But I can't think what else he'd be doing there.

Maybe LV is just so revolted with WT at the moment that he just wanted to hand him over to Snape. Or no one really trusts Snape, so LV sent Wormtail, who likes to listen through doors, to spy.

This part of the book was a bit cheesy..
It didn't explain really what was going on at Snape's.
But Snape said that Wormtail was set to assist Snape, but I think there is more to it than just that... hmm

I think we have to remember that Wormtail owes a life debt to Harry too. A well as that, he has never been the one to be 100% loyal to anyone. He could very well be lisyening to all that he can and trying to see which way the tides are turning at that moment. Listening at doors can get him information he will need later. Like, when am I going to go running to Harry to help him? When LV is in real trouble and Wormtail has a chance to save his own tail. As for him being with Snape, well, they just need to hide. Actually, Wormtail needs to hide. I ma sure he can get annoying. Especially if LV knows Wormtail can not be fuly trusted, then he woul send him to hide elsewhere while he makes plans to kill others.

My guess is that Wormtail is probably in hiding.

In the opening chapter Fudge tells the Prime Minister that Sirius was innocent after all so the Ministry must now know the truth, that Peter Pettigrew is not deadand it was Peter that killed all those Muggles and betrayed Lily & James.

So he will be wanted for murder and for being in league with Voldemort.

Snape cant just hand him over because then his cover would be blown, no matter what side he was working for.

If he handed Peter over to the Ministry/Order the Voldemort would know that he was no longer with him.

This was reeeaaalllyyy odd!!! What in the world was Wormtail doing in Snapes house...hidden in the wall!!! This definitely isn't the end of Wormtail...I'm 100% sure that Wormtail will return in the 7th book...he's owes Harry his life...everybody knows that...i was just tryin to act smart !!

If snape is good, Petigrew could have been Albus's doppelganger.

If snape is bad, he could be torturing Peter for being found out by Black.

I was rereading HBP, and I was on Spinner's End, and I noticed something. When Narcissa asked if they're alone, Snape relpies:

Nope, it's never been posted anywhere else!

I think that we've previously seen some indication that Pettigrew is using this nickname among the Death Eaters. I'm not at home and therefore do not have all my books by my side at the moment (), but I'm pretty sure that Voldemort called him 'Wormtail' throughout GoF, which makes me think that this is just some weird nickname that he's decided to adopt permanently... don't know why, though... I wouldn't latch onto any nickname that had to do with a rat, if it were me.

I do think that Snape knew about the nickname before rejoining Voldemort, however. He seemed to recognize the names on the Marauders' Map, or otherwise he'd have no reason to suspect that Harry got it 'directly from the manufacturers.' It wouldn't really surprise me if Snape was aware of these nicknames based on any distant connection that he had with the Marauders, though. I mean, in the scene in the Pensieve, we know that James calls Sirius 'Padfoot' and Peter 'Wormtail,' so Snape could have picked the nicknames up while revisiting that memory, if nowhere else... I dunno, there doesn't seem to be anything particularly suspicious about this to me. Plenty of people in my school, for example, know that 'Anthony Goldstein' is my Internet alter-ego (), and this really isn't terribly different.

LV makes reference to Peter as Wormtail several times in Book 4 in that chapter where he regathers. I'm assuming that if LV calls him Wormtail, then the rest of the DE are going to as well. However if LV always knew him as wormtail or how that came about is in question, but I don't really think important in the grand scheme of things

I agree with Allie, that it's most like;y that snape simply over hear James, Sirius or Reimus using the nickname 'Wormtale' for Peter when they were in school together, it's a bit conspirecy-theorist-like to suggest that he learned this from any other, darker means.

Have you read Goblet of fire?

When Barty Crouch jr is under the influence of Veritaserum?

He mentions wormtail quite a few times. Snape was in the room

yes i have read Goblet of Fire or I wouldn't be posting in the Post-Half Blood Prince forum ....I've read all the books...I just don't own them all yet, so I can't go and look up tidbits of information whenever I please. Goblet of Fire and Chamber of Secrets are the two books i on't own, so my apoligies.

Edit: Allie, you mentioned you wouldn't want to keep a nickname that reminded you that you were a rat.

Well....

I wouldn't wanna become a rat....don't you get to choose what animal you become? If so, Wormtail is lame on many, many more levels....I mean, James and Sirius became big enough aniamls to keep Lupin in check...so they must of had control of it somehow...I think maybe the animal reflects your personality....therefore Wormail became vermin because he was vermin.

Mmm... well, I'm sure that the wizard doesn't get to choose his Animagus form, but if you ask me, the fact that he doesn't get to choose (and yet Pettigrew turns out a rat) is even more compelling support for the theory that the animal reflects the wizard than were the wizard allowed to pick his animal. That's a very good idea that you've got going... I believe that JKR has mentioned before that a wizard's Animagus/Patronus is somehow correlated with a wizard's personality, so that would also constitute 'official' confirmation that your theory is correct. I don't really understand exactly how this works all the time -- I mean, how is an otter supposed to represent Hermione's character traits? -- but the stag and the vicious-looking dog ... those are definitely strong animals, and I can see how they are related to James's and Sirius's personalities. And yes, Pettigrew is a definite rat. Small, small-minded, filthy, the works. I still don't get why he keeps the nickname, though. Why not go by 'Peter' instead? You'd think that he wouldn't want to draw Voldemort and the Death Eaters' attention to the fact that his Animagus form is such a weak animal, if it really does reflect something deeper about his personality...

Could it be that some of the Death Eaters don't know his true identity? And about Hermione's patronus being an otter...otters are outstandingly clever and smart animals - they can figure things out fast.

Perhaps Voldemorte hid Peter's identity, as many of the Death Eaters Believe him to be a traitor, especially since we learned Sirius was cleared. Maybe it was a reward, similar to the silver arm.

Well Peter was called Wormtail in the GoF by Voldemort so I think he told Voldemort that he likes the name Wormtail. Now everyone calls Peter Wormtail instead.

He calls him that because


**spoiler for anyone who hasn't finished**























he is a death eater man so now everyone calls him wortail. Not a very flatering name now is it?

Snape knew because my Snapey poo knows everything! I am just joking mods! In OotP, During Snape's worst memory, while James, Sirius and Lilly are talking-Sirius refers to james as Prongs. That shows me they were not discrete as to who knew there names. They seem the type who would want other people to know that they have oh so cool nicknames and tease people about what they really mean.

Kind of like asking how Snape knows Harry has an invisible cloak...or was that just from using Occlumency or Legilemsy(sp?)...or I'm just missing something...YEAH...probably just goes by that nickname like everyone else is saying.

Also in OoTP when Harry and Snape are in Umbridge's office and he had the vision that Sirius was being attacked he told Snape that Padfoot had been attacked and Snape knew who he was talking about. Their nicknames were clearly not secret.

Very suspicious! I think that Wormtail may be spying on Snape for Voldemort. Although he wasn't Voldemort's most trusted servant....he has probably redeemed himself with everything he did. He was the only one who went and found V after his downfall and helped restore him to his body. That has to count for something. V knows that Snape is an accomplished lelimens *sorry about the spelling* and could be betraying him so he needs someone to spy. Plus.....that is all Wormtail has ever done. He was spying on the Potter's for V before his downfall and spying is the only thing he is of any use for. He isn't very good at magic but he makes a decent spy. He was also found listening at the door which is pretty fishy. I might be reading too much in to this but I guess that we'll see.

ok im new to this whole thing but bare with me, i really do think that snape was ordered to kill dd but i think theres sumthing that everyone is overlookin. this may be a very log stretch but wat if that truly wasnt dd. remember in the second chp when they had wormtail serving snape. why was wormtail there? why would the have such an important character in 2nd chp and never bring him back. wat was the point of wormtail being there? and wat about wormtails hand
wormtails hand was bandaged and dd was dead could there be a connection? could wormtail possibly have taken polyjuice potion and pretended to be dd? i kno this is a huge stretch and im prally just tryin to cling on to the hope that dd isnt dead but are there any other thoughts on wormtails short appearance and the significanec of it?

i don't think voldemort really trusted snape because he knew that he was in the ootp as well, being a spy, but snape could have been playing both spies.

i think LV had wormtail spy on snape because if snape killed him for medling in his business it wouldn't matter on the loss

Crsdba wrote [QUOTE]Kind of like asking how Snape knows Harry has an invisible cloak, or was that just from using Occlumency or Legilmensy(sp?)...[QUOTE]

Snape used Harry's invisibility cloak in The Prisoner of Azkaban.
Lupin, Sirius, Scabbers, Hermione, Ron and Harry were all in the Shrieking Shack discussing Snape's being nosy among other things.
Last sentence of chapter 18 "Severus Snape was pulling off the Invisibility Cloak, his wand pointing directly at Lupin."
Chapter 19 "I found this at the base of the Whomping Willow," said Snape,
throwing the cloak aside, careful to keep his wand pointing directly at Lupin's chest. "Very useful, Potter, I thank you....."

Snape knew about the cloak, he didn't need to perform legilimensy on Harry about that particular item.

I'm sorry about the way I quoted this, I was a little confused about how to quote it.

If Voldemort didn't trust Snape, he would be dead long before now

I believe that Snape successfully explained how he returned to Voldemort's favor--by staying close to his enemies at Hogwarts itself.

In HBP. Snape reminds Wormtail that he was placed there by the Dark Lord to assist him...but in WHAT ? ? ?

I think it is Wormtail that Voldy doesnt trust. At the beginning of GoF, Wormy tells Voldy that he can go out and get another wizard to use instead of HP, and Voldy accuses him of trying to abandon him...so, now that Voldy and caused Wormy pain and the loss of his hand, he may think that sending him to Snape keeps him out of the way and he won't learn what the next plan is...and be able to warn HP since he owes him.

BTW does Voldy KNOW that Wormy owes a life debt to Harry? Or that Snape sort of does, because of James?

There is more to Wormtail's future in book seven and we were not given all the information in HBP. Where will his loyalties lie, and will he finally have the courage to repay Harry's debt?

Ah, this whole situation is just really odd. I don't think that Voldemort trusts Snape absolutely, but I also don't think that Wormtail was sent to spy on Snape, because as far as anyone can tell he is even less trustworthy. Probably Wormtail is with Snape to get him out of Voldemort's way because Wormtail would be likely to use Voldemort's information for himself. I don't know what he would be "helping Snape with" though. Maybe something, maybe nothing.

first of all to those who think wormtail is good for nothing but spying we have to remember that it was wormtail who used that crowd killing curse when he confronted Sirius after the Potters' death. that sounds like a very advanced curse, something only heavy weight dark wizards could cast. so in my opinion wormtail is in no way as weak as he always made himself look to his friends and the like.

what I was always curious about was how close he was to Snape. In PoA it sounds like snaape never knew he was a DE like himself and that generally the DE only knew one or two of the others' identities. but than again if he knew would he not be happy to keep his information to himself so Sirius could rot for eternity in Azkaban? personally I think he only learned of wormtail's allegiance and the marauders' exact animagi appearance in PoA.

now as for the reason he stayed with snape in HBP I thought the reason was to satisfy Snape. We all know how much he enjoys abusing his underlings (like his weak students and maybe the terrified DE during DD death scene) especially those he hates like James Potter and his gang.

Voldemort knows his weak side and gives him wormtail for the summer to play with to his heart content.

also I think wormtail is quite the gossip so could give the other DE the sense that they know what's going on with snape and wouldn't get suspicious and do something foolish like get into a duel with him. beside they're the same age, spent their childhood together at school and both key figures in the death of the Potter family. what better team could there be?

I don't think Wormtail is stupid, obviously he can do some quite advanced magic as he learned to be an animagus. I just don't think that anyone would trust him enough to make him their spy. It makes sense that he would just be there for Snape's amusement. Snape would love to have someone there to boss around. But doesn't Wormtail say something along the lines of "I'm here to help you, not to serve you drinks?" I dunno.

I was wondering the same thing about Wormtail upon my first reading of HBP. I think that there is something up with him -- something potentially important -- and we may have been given clues to what that may be, but I don't have a clue at this point. But I suspect that there was some prep work going on there with Wormtail for something potentially important in Book 7.

Read the books. Voldemort himself has called Peter "Wormtail" since the beginning of GoF, and Snape and Voldemort do seem to have spoken with eachother quite frequently. Perhaps, (just a thought) Voldemort said something about Wormtail to Snape and he figured it out then. Or maybe he knew it long before. It's not a secret. Far from it.

I really can't say I'm too fond of people's rather blunt flippancy in telling others to 'read the books'. I'm not singling anyone out here, because quite a few people in this thread have done it and frankly, it's really rude and I'm not having it.

If whoever asked the question missed something, then you can point it out politely - there's no need for abrupt sarcasm. We've all missed things from time to time so unless you're a walking encyclopedia with all the books memorised, I suggest you keep the sarcasm out of it.

If people here can't answer the question in a polite manner then I'd really rather you didn't post at all unless you fancy the idea of an official warning for breaking the fundamental rule of this forum - not to create a hostile environment.

Hi there harry potter_lover and welcome to the vtm forum! Please drop by lounge to introduce your self when you get the chance (check my signature for the link).

I'm afraid net speak ('u') isn't allowed here on vtm as it makes post harder to read for our members.
Also there really is no need to quote someone's entire post, (only the bit you want to reply to ). it wastes bandwidth which could go to much better use on the forum.

I'd really appreciate it if you could take a quick look at the rules (again the links in my signature, at the bottom of this post) and it will give you a good guide for posting and opening topics.

Thanks Shane

I really doubt that Wormtail was at Spinner's End to spy on Snape. Voldemort knows that Snape is really clever and powerfull wizard. He would have noticed if Voldemort had sent Wormtail to spy on him. However, he managed to decieve James and co. and we know that they werent stupid either, so Wormtail must be really good at pretending and acting.

But i still dont think that Wormtail would have ever managed to hide his real orders from Snape. He is a brilliant Legillimens(sp?).

I believe that Wormtail will participate in the last duel between Voldy and Harry, and when Harry is nearly going to die, he dies for him.

I don't think that Wormtail was looking out for LV because LV doesn't trust Snape. I think that wormtail doesn't trust snape. Wormtail is jealous because Snape is maybe more popular with LV than wormtail is and he wants to be. We know how jealous and attention wanting he is?

yeah i was rereading the half blood for the 3rd time and wourndering the same l also wounder why was he at spinners end my thoughts are that LV made snape watch over wormtail and because he probably got ticked off at him so he kicked him out of where ever he is but other then that i have no clue where they are now but i think they might be in the riddle house though because no one gose there anymore EH?

I agree, I don't think that Voldemort completely trusted Snape and that was why wormtail was there. He was to report anything that Snape said especially if it was mutionous. Wormtail has always been more conserned about himself than others, so the fact that he was getting attaked by Snape, he didn't want to get hurt so he could go away and then honestly telll Voldemort that he didn't overhear anything bad.

I have no idea why Wormtail is at Snape's house. I believe that, if Snape is really evil and intends to harm Harry, maybe Wormtail will protect him. But this has nothing to do with Snape and Wormtail together. Let's wait for the seventh book.

Why would Voldemort send Wormtail to Snape's house to be his servant? I am under the suspicion that he sent Wormtail there to spy on Snape.

Hmmm...maybe he did, great thinking...I never thought that before...


Mod Edit: Please remember one-liners and short posts are not permitted in this section.

That is really good thinking, I never thought of that before. Very possible. But Peter strikes me as a person to nervous or shy or I dunno, stupid, to do aomething like that. But he was trying to listen at the bookcase and what not the whole time. So it is possible. But then why would Voldemort want to have a spy on Snape when he proved that he was Voldemort's side (as far as he knows) a while ago. We learned that during that chapter, all the questions that Bellatrix asked him. So why then would Voldemort want a spy on Snape. And if Peter was acting as a spy, did he follow Snape to Hogwarts?

I think wormtail would be the perfect spy. Snape would feel like he could boss around and yet wormtail could still report to voldy. If it was anyone else snape wouldnt let his gaurd down.

and also to prove the point when malfoys mom was just about to talk snape used a spell to hit wormtail who was listening in and snape says:

"My appologoes, he has lately been taken to be listening at doors.... i dont know what he means by it" - pg 30 HBP

very good observation!

This is just one of many unanswered questions JK failed to address, she was to busy fiinishing the series.