A friend and I have been talking about horcruxes and we have thoughts and questions we'd like to put out there and hear other people's thoughts.
We know that V. wanted seven horcruxes -- is this in part because a horcrux is used up (so to speak) once an attempt at killing V. is made? If horcruxes are used up, then wouldn't one have been used when the killing curse rebounding off Harry?

Moreover, how do people think that horcruxes are used? Do you need to be near them or retrieve them in order to use them? I would think not, since the locket horcrux was so far away in the cave. But then, Lucius was supposed to keep safe the diary, which would mean that horcrux would have been readily accessible...
If as some are speculating Harry is a horcrux, then the fact that his blood was used at the rebirthing ceremony would fit.
It would also fit for Nagini to be a horcrux if, as her milk was helping V. gain strength.

Also thinking on how a horcrux is destroyed -- Dumbledore didn't destry the ring and was able to destroy the horcrux within. Therefore, even if Harry were a horcrux, then he wouldn't have to die for the horcrux itself to be destroyed. But might this be different if the horcrux is within a living being?

And how is Harry supposed to figure all this out!! Especially since Harry isn't telling members of the Order (McGonnegal) what he learned from Dumbledore.

Well, Harry was protected by love, that's why the Avada Kedavra curse didn't work on him.

I think that when a killing curse or someone tries to kill Voldemort he loses a horcrux.

I guess Harry doesn't want to tell anyone from the Order, because of what happened to Snape, maybe... He was on Dumbledore's orders not to tell anyone except Ron and hermione, and he's starting to be a loner, but he won't be that's why Hermione and Ron will help him.

And that's my thought on horcruxes.

Horcruxes are only used up when the actual horcrux is destroyed-people can try to kill Voldemort all they want, but no matter what, he always stays alive because of the horcruxes. I think that Dumbledore did destroy the ring-he was wearing it early in the book, but destroyed it when he realized what it was. At least I think so, I don't remember the ring after a while. I don't think it will be impossible for Harry to figure it out-the horcruxes seem to all be "trophies" from his most "important" murders.

I thought that maybe a horcrux works by making the soul that is left inside the actual living body immortal. So when Volde was killed by the curse that rebounded off of Harry, it was still the soul that was inside of his now destroyed body that went on living. So the horcruxes don't really DO anything, besides make the person who created them immortal.

Firstly, I highly doubt Harry or Dumbledore (as has been suggested) or any other human being, come to think of it, could be made a horcrux without being aware of it. We're told even earlier than Book 7 that merely possessing a creature greatly shortens its lifespan (Voldemort did this when he was recovering from trying to kill Harry, by occupying the bodies of serpents and other animals). So it would seem that to become the vessel for part of a soul would greatly affect the body of that person/animal. Even Nagini, who presumably has a longer lifespan than normal snakes, would be an unsatisfactory vessel - anything ALIVE would be, presumably. If immortality is the goal, then vessels that don't have a lifespan would be more desirable. Beings are vulnerable (usually even more vulnerable than Voldemort's 'being' since he's such a powerful wizard) which is why Voldemort needed horcruxes in the first place. I also think some kind of consent or acceptance would be required on the part of the person/animal that becomes a vessel, again suggested by the possession analogy where Dumbledore says that it's surprising that Nagini permits such long periods of possession.

Secondly, I also highly doubt that a horcrux can be created accidentally. It's been suggested elsewhere that when Voldemort killed Harry's mother he accidentally made Harry a horcrux. Although we're not told exactly how a horcrux is made, we are told that it's a difficult and important piece of dark magic. And not just any murder results in a horcrux being created (if this were the case, Voldemort would have hundreds or thousands of horcruxes around); there must be something further performed for a horcrux to exist. Murder only results in splitting the soul (incidentally Dumbedore's soul may not be entirely whole either since he defeated the dark wizard Grindelward[sp?] but he may not have done so by killing him).

I agree with previous posters that horcruxes only operate to make the person's soul invulnerable to death while they exist (proximity is not needed for use). But they don't become 'used up' once one attempt is made on the person's life; they continue to operate for as long as they exist. Also, the attempt on the person's life has to be one which would otherwise have killed them, had a horcrux not existed.

As far as I can gather, this is the state of the known horcruxes at the end of Book 7:
1. Slytherin's ring, destroyed by Dumbledore
2. Slytherin's necklace, found by R.A.B. and intended to be destroyed (but not certain this has been done)
3. Riddle's diary, destroyed by Harry

That leaves 3 possible horcruxes (Voldemort's soul being presumably split into 7 pieces, and the seventh piece residing in his body). Suggested horcruxes include Hufflepuff's cup, something belonging to Ravenclaw and/or Gryffindor, (although Dumbledor suggests Nagini, I don't think she is a horcrux for reasons stated above). and possibly the Advanced Potions Book (although I think that my reasons for believing this might take this thread off topic so I won't go into it here). It seems quite fitting with Voldemort's trophy-death tendency, and his desire to be set apart from others, that he stores a piece of himself in something belonging to each of the 4 houses. However, another likely suggestion includes other unknown dark items belonging to Slytherin and/or Voldemort only (as opposed to other houses) because of his disdain for their acceptance of mudbloods. Incidentally I don't think it's muggle borns that Slytherin/dark wizards look down upon (as Tonks says, there has to be some mixing because the pureblood community is too small); it's pure mudbloods like Hermione's parentage that they despise.

Sorry about the long post!

Good thing this isn't Hogwarts, you'd never find anything about Horcruxes there (banned subject)

The problem is, with Horcruxes being a banned subject at Hogwarts, it's going to be only speculation for now.

Never-ending Horcruxes scenario:

Voldemort sees one of his Horcruxes has been destroyed, he makes another one. Then, Harry/Order of the Phoenix discovers one and and destroys it. Voldemort kills one of the Order and makes another Horcrux. Repeat until Voldemort has eliminated lots of the Order members.

It's sort of like sending soldiers one at a time into the battlefield, to destroy 6 castles and then the main base. You'll eventually kill a castle (Horcrux), but unless you can kill them all at once, and eliminate any chance of them being rebuilt, you're simply going to have lots of casualties.

The problem is, we don't know enough about Horcruxes at this point. If Voldemort could make them fast enough, then we'd be stuck in a very hard position.


When you make a Horcrux, do you use up part of your soul peremantely? That way, if one is destroyed, you only have the 6/7ths remaining to use more? Or does the soul in the first Horcrux get 'distributed' to the others, making it 6/6ths?

I don't think a Horcrux could/should be anything living, i know DD said he thought Nagini is one, but it just seems stupid, because living things can die, so wouldn't the bit of soul in it die too? Unless it stays in the dead body? But maybe Voldermort became frightened by what happened and deciede to use nagini just to make sure he had 7.

I've been think of why he thought 7 would be good just because it is the number with the most magical meaning. What more could it give you than having 6, appart from being one more safegaurd? Unless have 7, with all its magical significance will mean that not only your soul won't be destroyed, but maybe also your body won't. So maybe if Voldermort had 7 when he attacked Harry, his body wouldn't have been destroyed and he would have just carried on as normal (i know a bit out their, but what difference does 7 give him, except having more? Why no 8 in that case?)

I have the same answer i had in the "Is Harry a horcrux?" forum.

A Horcrux is an object that has a piece of a person's soul in it. Voldemort didn't die when he tried to kill Harry (no Harry's not one of them, Voldemort just transferred some of his powers not part of his soul) because he already had 7 horcruxes. Seven is a magically significant and powerful number, just like the number 3 is with real witches today(believe me I am one).

The 7 Horcruxes are:

1. the diary - destroyed

2. Marvolo's ring - destroyed

3. Slytherin's locket - ? (I don't think Regulus had a chance to destroy it)

4. Hufflepuff's cup - needs to be found

5. something of Ravenclaw's or Gryffindor's

6. Nagini

7. Voldemort himself

Voldemort can't die (or become mortal) until the remaining ones are destroyed. Voldemort needed to keep a bit of soul for himself or he would not be able to have his body back.

ok....so i read all the books through once...but what about in the first one when voldemort is in quirells body..i still don't undertsand how that happened or how it worked...i jus though i might bring it up..since we r talking about LV and things he had put his soul into..

It would seem that each time Voldemort creates a Horcrux, he is actually splitting his soul into smaller fragments. It wouldn't be possible for him to put half his soul into the first, then half again into the next...so each time he creates a Horcrux he is becoming less of himself.

One would assume that there would be a limit, then, to how many times one could create a Horcrux in order to keep themselves alive. Seven, perhaps, is significant in that it is the most the Voldemort (or anyone with the same crazy desire for immortality) can split their souls without devastating effects. This would prevent someone as twisted as Voldy from continually creating Horcruxs...if there was no limit, and given the willingness he has for killing, why wouldn't he have just created hundreds or thousands of Horcruxes? The cave was full of Inferi, and, for all we know, Voldemort may have killed all of them personally.

So, by my thinking, once his seven are destroyed (including himself) then so is he...his soul will no longer exist in any vessel! This is good news for HP and those in the Order...Voldemort can be eventually defeated!!

My thoughts on how Horcruxes work...

The reason a living being is needed to be killed to create one I believe is to capture their soul. Then that soul is combined with the fraction of the caster's soul to sustain it and protect it - like a virus in the nucleus of a cell. The whole thing is then embedded within an object to make it portable and give it concrete substance.

Can a living being have a Horcrux embedded within it? I say yes, but it's a foolish idea. If that creature dies, the horcrux would be lost once the body decomposes. And in the wizarding world, it seems so easy to be killed. So if Voldy made Nagini a Horcrux, he was being very short-sighted.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't Voldemort have already used one of his Horcruxes? The purpose of a Horcrux is to have a back up soul, in case the first one dies. They are the reason Voldemort is "immortal". So, shouldn't the reason Voldemort is immortal be the same reason he survived the attack on Baby Harry? That would mean the soul in the current Voldemort's body would not be the original. My guess it that he used the one in Nagini's body, considering she was close at hand during his recovery.

Only, this also doesn't fit because Voldemort chatted with Harry about how his soul was stripped from his body and how for ten years he inhabited random animals with it. If Volde still has his original soul, why didn't it die when the spell rebounded?

I think Horcruxes are back-up souls, with the idea being that since the wizarding world is so dangerous, why "place all your eggs in one basket," so to speak? So it goes like this: to insure that you will have a second (or third, or fourth, or fifth, etc.) chance at living, you divide up your soul and place pieces of it somewhere else for safekeeping. Killing is naturally the key to dividing your soul, because it's such a horrible thing to do that it isn't suprising that a consequence would be tearing your soul (or if you already have a horcrux/horcruxes, the piece of your soul you are currently using) in two. Each time you make a horcrux, your soul becomes smaller, making you less human. I don't think horcruxes can regenerate after you use them; after all, when people die do their souls grow back, making them alive again? A horcrux is just a part of a soul, so there is no reason to suggest they wouldn't get used up.
Living off of horcruxes is pretty much the opposite of recieving a dementor's kiss: instead of having an empty body with no soul, you have a soul (or part of one), and no body. Theoretically you could make an infinite amount of horcruxes, but the pieces would be so small you would end up being more like a wisp of a thought than an actual living being, so there's not much of a point.
Voldemort did use up one of his horcruxes after the infamous curse backfired. It killed him, but he was not dead - he still had his handy back-up souls, though for the time being he was out of a body.
I also have a theory about Nagini: I think she is a horcrux, but there was no original snake the soul was put into; I think Voldemort somehow created her around his soul, like he created another body for himself in the 4th book. This would be why Nagini is an unusually calm living horcrux: she's not merely being possessed, she actually IS part of Voldemort.
One last thought: you might not even need an actual thing to keep your soul in, you could just let it be a floating horcrux (does the word horcrux refer to the vessel or the soul itself? because here i mean the soul), though that might be hard to keep track of.

There certainly is lots of room for interperetation with the description in the book, but the concept I had after reading the book was that a horcrux consisted of a small portion (not necessarily half) of the soul that splinters off as a result of the act of murder. Now, if you'll excuse me for using the all too cliche example of the 'physical' realm and the 'spiritual' realm (just call me Sybill, although in my defense that concept is indirectly implied by JKR's use of the image of the veil), I think that when a person dies, their soul crosses the veil from one to another. One of the things mentioned in the books is that the natural state of the soul is to be whole- I think the significance of that is that the soul must be whole in order to successfully make that crossing. So splintering off a piece of the soul and securing it inside an object/ person that is firmly tied to the physical realm means that that piece- the horcrux- acts like an anchor to a ship, holding it in place indefinitely.

I have to beleive that Horcruxes are not something that one can easily make and just because you kill someone doesn't mean you will automatically have one. Otherwise LV would have thousands and just for insurance he would have made a million more.

I beleive it's very difficult magic that even LV needs a little help with, say from a skilled potions master or DADA teacher?

And even with help there is probably a limit, 7, the soul can probably only be split into 7 pieces. After all 7 is a magic number. And once a horcruxe is destroyed it probably cannot be reformed or the creator cannot make it again because the sould becomes lost and he's only left with the remaining one which cannot be further split since 7 is the max.

In other words, you cannot split a soul that has already been split, therefore no more Horcruxes can be made

Something like this has to be true if Harry's Mission is to destroy these objects. Horcruxes only occur once I beleive, once split you can't do anything else about it.

I agree with Tarak Raskhan, i think once the soul is destroyed or used to revive the person, it can no longer be of any use. I highly doubt that the diary or the ring will be functional after being destroyed.

I'm sorry, but I really have to disagree. I don't think that horcruxes are back-up souls at all. On p. 503 of OotP, Dumbledore says, "The seventh part of his soul, however maimed, resides inside his regenerated body. That was the part of him that lived a spectral existence for so many years during his exile; without that, he has no self at all." I think that the horcruxes work to tie the piece of soul in Voldemort's body -what I see as the center of his soul - to the earth so that even if his body is destroyed, that piece of his soul will not be. The bits of soul in the horcruxes can be destroyed, much like chipping away at a block. Only when they are all gone and can no longer tie the final piece of soul to earth can the central piece be destroyed.

The following post was made by Annapurna1 in a topic that was subsequently locked.

--------------------

koschei bessmertnyi (wikipedia)...

apparently thats where JKR got the idea for a "horcrux" (however koschei didnt "split" his soul)...other parts of the koschei tale might also pop up in book 7..for example with nagini playing the role of the "hare"...

Koshei is a great lead! Thanks!

Here are my ideas:
I think there is a bit more to the concept of soul, than just a recording. A horcrux is not just a backup copy. It possesses a will of its own, and a limited awareness. In the Harry Potter books, Tom Riddle's diary shows this the best. It was able to talk, think, plan, and even influence or control the person it dealt with.

I think all horcruxes possess this power to some extent. Tom Riddle's diary may have been the best made of all of Lord Voldemort's horcruxes, but I think the others may also reveal themselves by their attempts to control their bearers.

A soul is ripped by every murder, and inded a little by every real crime (not parking tickets!) Voldemort's hundreds of personal murders have already fragmented his soul, and made him a bit more of a monster and less of a human being, with each one. The horcruxes involve doing something special with that bit of torn-away soul. But because of the preparation and deliberateness of the act, the rending of the soul is going to be much greater than, say, what happens to a soldier on a battlefield who shoots another soldier.

Where have we seen something like this in print before? The Lord of the Rings!

I am inclined to believe that the One Ring was a horcrux. It somehow preseved the spirit of the Dark Lord for 3000 years, and allowed him to be reborn. If the One Ring had been destroyed, then this would not have happened. The ring has a will of its own. It influences, even controls its bearer. It seems able to think for itself, and shows it at crucial moments.

Riddle's diary showed all of the same attributes.


I believe that in Harry Potter's world, the Lord of the Rings is not a novel: It is sober history. Harry Potter's world is one in which the practice of magic has been perfected to a much greater extent than in the LOTR, but every magic from LOTR would still work, in Harry Potter's world.


I believe that the creation of a horcrux solves only the first of several problems related to using it to preserve life. After LV was killed, just as after the Dark Lord of the Rings was killed, there were great difficulties in bringing them back. LV has advanced much farther than Sauron along this road, not only in making more horcruxes, but in the more important sense of knowing how to use them to regain a body.

I believe Quirrel must have happened across one horcrux, in order to be possessed. Unicorn blood or the Philosopher's stone were both possible routes to regaining a body. The first barely sustained LV, but the stone was never tried. When Quirrel/Voldemort died, there is no reason to believe that that horcrux was destroyed, but there is reason to believe that Dumbledore used the stone to lure LV into the open, to reveal himself.

I also believe that Phoenix' tears are another possible route for a horcrux to regain a body, but I have no proof. Perhaps Phoenix tears are a necessary ingredient for the manufacture of the Philosopher's stone?

On second thought, I'm not so sure that Quirrel had contact with a horcrux. The Dark Lord of the One Ring, did not have contact with the ring when he regained power in Mordor, so it may not be necessary. However, he clearly wanted to regain contact with the Ring, so that may have been a necessary step for the LotR to regain a body.

If Quirrel did have contact with a horcrux, then the process of LV hijacking his body may have been somewhat similar to what was done to Ginney Weasley. Not precisely the same, but similar.

If Quirrel did have contact with a horcrux, then probably there is one in Albania also, that Wormtail knew about, and fled to. If so, then he brought Birtha Jorkins to that horcrux, and perhaps it took control of her (with Wormtail's aid) in a way similar to the way Ginney was controlled.

Voldemort was not the most trusting person. It was likely he entrusted different horcruxes to different members of his inner circle, but allowed no-one to know the locations of all of them.

Lucien Malfoy was too afraid, or not confident enough in his own abilities, to attempt to revive LV using the diary. His instructions were probably to sacrifice his son, and allow LV to enter Draco's body as the first stage in LV's return. That would have been as simple as handing the diary to Draco and telling him to have a look. Instead, he handed it off to Ginny Weasley.

It is possible that Snape and Karkarov knew about the ring and the locket.
Any opinions?

MOD EDIT: Please see Kreiltje's post below. Double posting is not allowed on the forums.

i don`t mean to start a whole new discussion, but i think it fits in pretty well with the topic name.

If Riddle's Diary was in fact a horcrux, (as stated by DD), then why were Ginny, and Harry able to touch/hold it without getting hurt?

in the sixth book, the horcruxes were so dangerous to hold, that it would bring death to the holder. An example of this is Katie Bell, and Dumbledore's Blackened hand. Was it because the memory of Tom Riddle had wanted to lure a naive girl like Ginny that the Horcrux became bearable to touch?

i`m sure someone has brought this up already, but I feel that It should be discussed furthermore, to quench my undying thirst.

Hello SiriusB1214.

We don't allow dubble posting here on the forums, instead of dubble posting use the edit function (at the top of your post) instead, you can edit the post you made, and add whatever you like
Please be careful that you don't dubble post again,
A mod will come by to merge your posts.

~Marieke.

If a Horcrux is a vessle in which you place a part of your soul, in order to avoid death, then LV has parts of his soul cached in 7 objects, for he would not himself be a horcrux, his ego would hold him above the parts of his soul that were not in his body. If he had asked Slughorn about having the soul split into seven parts (7 being a magical number) that would imply that he was the seventh.

I too believe that the horcrux act as anchors, and that the soul is not split in two each time.. if that were the case the horcrux Harry has already encountered would have more of LVs soul than is left in LV. The diary 1/2 and LV now 1/64 (if the diary is the first horcrux) - simple arithmancy

I think there are several factors of horcrux to be explored and enjoyed in the next book:

1) Who was killed to make the horcrux.
2) Why were the people killed, I think there were motives at least for the first few.
3) What happens to the parts of the soul when a horcrux is destroyed.

My main theories are concerning LV's use of murder to split his soul. I think Riddle researched horcrux and more so the effects upon his soul, maybe there is a metaphysical relationship between the nature of the killing and the fracture in the soul.

Certainly LV is not about to risk his "self" to cheat death (which he fears is about losing his sense of self).. so there must be degrees of murder: accidental death, self defense, revenge .. if each one of these fractures the soul to differing degrees then these will create horcruxes that are only small fractions of the soul.

Witness the reaction of the old headmasters when they hear that LV has seven horcrux. They're not thinking small enough, they think LV will have acted depraved and recklessly and will be less than human, but I think LV shaved little pieces from his soul. Whilst horcrux are not taught at Hogwarts I'm sure there is a tome at Borgin a Burkes that would explain all this to Tom.

I think LV rarely kills people himself and with reason, he doesn't want too large a split. I think the size of the split is measured by the number and severity of killings, I think getting the Death Eaters to kill means at some stage he can make horcruxes of the larger part of each of their souls and keep the horcruxes himself as a means of controlling them.

If you look at the people killed to create the horcrux and the reasons it is obvious that there is a measure of motive for each killing:

Myrtle - (might've been the murder used to make the horcrux from the diary) this is a death caused by Tom, but he was not directly responsible.

Tom Riddle Snr - the ring horcrux. This is revenge on the father who left him.

Hepzibah Smith - revenge, the old witch was party to knowing the plight of his mother but didn't help her ... also greed.

So in that sense the motivation is less pure each time. Perhaps each made a small measured incursion into LV's soul.


As for what happens to the soul when the horcrux is destroyed. Do they gather back to the soul they were split from? In which case the 7th book may be a tale of redemption. Do the broken parts gather behind the veil waiting for the final piece to come.. or do they wander lost and powerless on the earth?

I think Dumbledore has extensive experience of people trying to achieve immortality and is patiently waiting for LV to ask for his help to reunite his soul so that he can die. I think LV knows that.. just as Percy knows his parents are right and not the ministry.

So Harry's role might not be to be stronger than LV but to destroy the hocrux, reunite the parts of LV's soul and in the final show down prove that love is stronger than dark magic. It's not without reason that Dumbledore ensured Harry's life was so like Tom Riddle's early life. It shows LV "it's not what you are but the choices you make that decides who you are" with all the parts of his soul back in place LV would effectively be the old Tom Riddle again, able to make the choice whether to continue to be a dark lord or not.

However that smacks of Return of the Jedi in some ways. Waddaya reckon?

There are a lot of people here that I agree with and disagree, but I can't quote them all because there are too many, so I'm just going to say some of my thoughts and try to quote little things.

I believe Horcruxes are what JK says they are (or what DD said they are), which is a piece of a soul (the wizard's soul) that is put inside of a specific object that the wizard chooses. I believe every one of Voldemort's horcruxes are a piece of him because they now hold a piece of his actual soul. I believe we're all born with a soul, one soul, and by killing someone in cold blood (which is one of the worst things you can do) you damage that soul, or split your soul, and only after that can you chose to put that torn piece into an object by casting a spell. You don't have to though, that's completely optional. I think it's also said that not many wizards know about horcruxes, let alone know how to make them, so most murderers don't make horcruxes, they simply murder and keep their torn, evil soul inside them.

The Koschei theory is really, really interesting and I wouldn't be surprised if that's where she got the idea from. It fits so perfectly, it would be quite extraordinary if it was just a coincidence, too extraordinary in fact.

I have also commented on the Harry is a Horcrux theory and I stand by what I said. I don't think he's one at all, and I'm not saying that because I simply refuse to believe it, I just feel that from what JK has said she's made it very clear what they are and in no way shape or form did she ever hint to Harry being one. I feel that if he was one she would have at least hinted at the possibility by now. When the theory first came around I believed it because there are things that happen that could be explained by Harry being a horcrux, but upon further readings I just realized JK already answered all of that and why they happened, so really there's no evidence to support the theory and it would complicate more than answer questions.

I picture LV the soul of LV (horcruxes) as those black bars in a battery status icon. The bottom bar is currently in LV, the top two are now blank (diary, ring). LV did not feel the loss of those bars because the low bat signal did not beep. As a horcrux is destroyed, the piece of the soul is gone forever so there's no way those spaces are going to be black again. The equipment still functions and goes dead until that last bar disappears.
Now, Slughorn mentioned a spell is needed to create a horcrux, and DD mentioned that LV "reserved the process of making Horcruxes for particularly significant deaths". Also noted is the fact that LV stopped wearing the ring once he succeeded in making it a horcrux, and DD was successful in destroying it (resulting in a blackened hand). These are some questions that pop into my mind:
1) Where did LV come across the term "horcrux"? Slughorn mentioned that there are hardly any books on the topic and that DD is particularly fierce about it and it's banned at Hogwarts. If it's banned, then all books in Hogwarts that discuss it would be gone from the shelves (Hermione lividly found one sentence in Magick Moste Evile mentioning it).
2) Whose murders/deaths did LV consider significant? Hepzibah Smith comes to mind as she descended from Hufflepuff. I think the ripped soul is encased in the Hufflepuff cup. An old muggle was mentioned as the last "worthy" murder (Frank Bryce??, caretaker of Riddle estate) for a horcrux (Nagini per DD, after the attempted murder of Harry, who has the power to destroy LV). I wonder about Dorcas Meadowes, though. Why did LV personally kill her?
3) When is a horcrux made? At the time and place of the murder? LV wore Slytherin's ring in Slughorn's true memory. DD said he stopped wearing it when he succeeded in making it a horcrux, secured it in Marvolo's house with curses and other enchantments. LV was still his handsome self when he returned after killing the Riddles, so I am assuming the horcrux production started after he graduated and after his Borgin and Burkes employment (he's ugly during his visit to DD for the DADA job).
Harry could not be a horcrux. LV killed James, argued/killed Lily, AK'd Harry, lost his body when it rebounded. If he chose Harry's murder significant for a horcrux, he had no chance to touch an object and/or cast a spell to "horcruxify" Harry.

I apologize for rambling. Still jetlagged. Hope I am in the right spot for this.

I have been reading through this topic Basically,
when you "use" a horcrux, does it stop being one? I mean, lets take when Voldemorts AK rebounded, and so Voldemort kindof died.
The fact that he had a horcrux is what kept him "alive". Barely,yes, in a weird sort of way, but still alive.
But he didnt have a body. He was only a piece of soul, the very last piece of soul he had left into his body.
So what exactly is the point of a horcrux? You dont die, but you neither can say that you are alive. You cant do anything as you dont have a body.
So how are you supposed to get one? Maybe you have to get the horcrux and use it. And i mean literally. How? Well, how about if you needed to make a pocion? Maybe a pocion like the one Voldemort made (well actually wormtail made it) in book4.

To have his body back, he needed to put the horcrux in the pocion. To use that piece of soul that was in the horcrux, and put it back into himself. And thats where Nagini came in.
Remember that Wormtail used some of Naginis milk in the pocion? Along with all the other stuff (call it ingredients), of course.

So we are supposing that Voldemort made Nagini a horcrux, by killing that old muggle, because he needed to have a horcrux with him to get his body back. And he couldnt send Wormtail to get one of the ones he already had. Guess that he didnt trust him and it would be too risky.
So he just made himself a new one, and then used it.

And here i have a doubt. Nagini didnt die. They only used some of her milk.
Do you think that she is still a horcrux? Can horcruxes be used as many times as you like? And how do you use it if its an object?
Or maybe you can only use it once...and there comes Voldemort wanting to have more, to make 7 horcruxes. "Would one horcrux be much use..." Thats what Voldemort said.

But this would mean that Nagini is no longer a horcrux. And that if a living thing is a horcrux, then it doesnt have to die for the horcrux to be destroyed. You can guess where im trying to get by that point in particular.

[/quote]1) Where did LV come across the term "horcrux"? Slughorn mentioned that there are hardly any books on the topic and that DD is particularly fierce about it and it's banned at Hogwarts. If it's banned, then all books in Hogwarts that discuss it would be gone from the shelves (Hermione lividly found one sentence in Magick Moste Evile mentioning it).2) Whose murders/deaths did LV consider significant? Hepzibah Smith comes to mind as she descended from Hufflepuff. I think the ripped soul is encased in the Hufflepuff cup. An old muggle was mentioned as the last "worthy" murder (Frank Bryce??, caretaker of Riddle estate) for a horcrux (Nagini per DD, after the attempted murder of Harry, who has the power to destroy LV). I wonder about Dorcas Meadowes, though. Why did LV personally kill her? When is a horcrux made? At the time and place of the murder?[quote]
I think so. You have to make some kindof spell, of course, but yes. Though this makes me wonder... if he was planning to make a horcrux on Harrys death, then he must have had the object with him...

Anyway... I just had all this in my mind... I know it has all been discussed already.

im sure the horcrux would be made at the time of the murder because you have to say a special spell to encase (right word??) the part of soul in the horcrux.....o o o this just comes to mind...frank bryce definatley wouldnt be a murder used to make a horcrux because there was no indication of another spell being said at the time of his death...i reckon Bertha was the last murder for the final horcrux...

not disagreeing with you here but this did occur to me...the death eaters didnt know about the horcruxes and this is just a guess but if the death eaters had horcruxes owned by LV i reckon they would have felt something when their soul was split. i guess this because DD told harry that LV probably couldn't tell when a horcrux was destroyed because he was so detatched from thoses parts of him so im just guessing that there would be some feeling (possibly pain) when the soul is split.

another question...if your soul split in half you would only have half left, then when you create another horcrux you would only have a quater left then one eighth then one sixteenth etc. this then lead me to think that possibly some peices of LV soul is smaller possibly weaker...

Well, the mutilation happens to Voldemorts body. What with the soul... Dumbledore said that the powers would remain the same...whole and intact.

Lets revive a thread!!!! yeah... well i think that somehow, i mean its magic so it isnt impossible, but somehow i think that when a soul i split more than once they somehow even themselves out.... because i doubt voldemort would be happy going through all the trouble and having some really small and some large, i dnt think it matters either way

when you put a piece of your soul in a horcrux it stays there. i don't think it can be taken out but i may be wrong. horcuxes contains dark magic and only the evilist of wizards would do such a thing. when a horcrux is destroyed you become less and less whole until you finally have no soul left and you are basically nothing. horcrux's i think are also made right on the spor although it's possible that it can be done somewhere else. i think voldemort should have been more careful and thoughtful before splitting his soul into 7.

Let me comment on something you said.... I think Dark Magic and its morality is a matter of circumstance.... let suse the DD/Horcrux theory.... He defeated(most likely killed) the Dark Wizard Grindelwald in 1945 inevitably tearing his soul in two, nothin he can do can fix it because he took anothers life, now if he wanted to ensure that he would aid in the downfall of Voldemort in the first war when things were getting desperate perhaps he used this fundamental imperfection, the tearing of his soul, to create a horcrux. I think the only reason Dumbledore would know so much and even accuse Tom of using Nagini as a horcrux is because he used one himself, on Fawkes perhaps... I know this isnt new but i wanted to restate it

dumbledore splitting his soul? i don't think that he would ever do such a thing. it requires dark magic and evil wizard or something like that and no offense but dumbledore is neither. i don't like the DD horcrux theory it's just so hard to believe. and putting a piece of his soul in fawkes might make sense since they come back to life again but i don't see the need of dumbledore having a horcrux.

am i wrong with what i just said...i don't know.

Dumbledore said that when ever a perosn is murdered by another, the murderers soul is plit, so no matter if it was an accident, for the good of things, or just homicide, it is still an act against nature so if did indeed kill Grindelwald, his soul would be torn, he would have no control over it but that leads to another thing, maybe since horcruxes involve immorotality they have gained the reputation that they are dark and evil because people kill for them... but if DD killed Grindelwald for humanity then it wouldnt be as evil as everyone thinks..... like i said it is circumstance that is relative

*sigh* true. i guess i wasn't looking at your point logically. i guess perhaps dumbledore's soul is split even though he didn't mean it or anything. i guess killing someone is a big deal in the wizarding world and there are consequences when you kill. but would that mean that is in book 7 if harry kills voldemort that harry's soul would split? hmm...i wonder. help me out a bit on this one dumbledore.

ahhh, alas we have come to Harry.... my only weakness to my theory.. i really would hate to see harry lose his pureness i guess it would be called.... I guess the only way around that is if someone else does it which would violate the prophecy... so yes must to my dismay i think harry's soul will be tarnished... but think of it this way, it is only tonr, even though that sounds like a big deal it might not effect him.... think about all of the Aurors who must have torn souls from the first war and the Order as well.... it is a violation against nature but is excused morally when the right thing is done such is the case with Harry/Tom

yeah i guess you are right. if harry does split his soul it may not affect him so. there is also a speculation though that harry may sacrifice himself instead of being killed or something else. it's possible that he may do so but i am unsure at this point. and yes all those aurors who have killed but for good reason. they may have split their souls all those times without realizing it.

here the catch.... is killing a horcrux the same as killing a person... because it is still a soul.... so wouldnt harry already have a torn soul and DD have his split into three.... and also maybe Harry wont tear his soul when he kills Voldemort because Tom is less than human, so maybe it wont count.....

perhaps. there's always a catch isn't there? maybe harry won't die if he is a horcrux and he tries to kill LV, who knows. but i hope harry doesn't die and perhaps he won't tear his soul since, like you said, tom is less human. it still is possible though.

yes ...always a catch.... i was just thinking about how JKR stated that her and Sybill worded the prophecy very carefully and i believe we are looking over something, perhaps grammatically.... i just cant wrap myself around it... uhh is this what it feels liek to be DD, haha

yes jk did word the prophecy very carefully i'll say that much. in fact everyone says that about the prophecy. the way she made sybll say the prophecy was great and as always a bit random and spooky. anyway i think that this is a bit offtopic so i'll get back on topic. am i wrong?

of course your not wrong, who here is to judge whether you are wrong or right, the only one worthy would be JKR when we are dealing about speculation and such... but anyway back to Horcruxes.... who else could have had one???

well perhaps some of the deatheaters. they are aware of dark magic and all that and we know that they have killed many wizards and witches but perhaps they too have horcruxes.

I don't think so. It seems as if LV is the only one in moderntime. ?Nobady has come further then me on the path of immortality? I think it was somethink like that. The only ones we know of except of LV are all old powerful wizards wich all had a passion for the Dark Arts. But all of these wizards lived in hundreads of years ago. So I think that LV is the only one in his time.

I was just reading HBP and dumbledore said

"no wizard has done more than tear his soul in two"


if killing tears the soul, then why wouldnt more people have their soul torn in more pieces than two. Think of countless aurors and order members who have killed more than once. Wouldnt then, after killing more than once, would their soul be split in more than two. I think then that there must be something more involved in making a horcrux and tearing ones soul.

Perhaps it depends on the meaning of the murder or killing. aurors, order members, and many other wizards have killed many times but only for good. perhaps if you kill for a good reason or only for good than you won't split your soul. voldemort seems and has only ever murdered or killed for evil and to make himself better. maybe killing for the wrong reason and doing something in an evil way will split your soul.

Another thing I was wondering, what can you make a Horcrux out of, and what does the objects well being have to do with the survival of the Horcrux. One theory I have heard is the accidental Horcrux that night at Godrics Hollow was created, even though harry didnt die, because LV wanted to make one from his dead body. i think this is preposterous and foolish of LV. Wouldnt his soul die with the body when it deteriorates. Would LV place a charm on the body to save it from the ravages of time. No i do not think even voldemort would want such a token, if it were possible to do.