i thought Horcruxs were Dark Magic i thought that is what they said. and i don't think Dumbledore is in to dark magic. and i don't know where that would come in to the book J.K. Rowling said he is dead for sure he is not coming back. but it dont think he would have had any anyways

Dumbledore would never create a horcux. When he's telling Harry about how Voldemort created his horcruxes in HBP, he says that his soul is 'mutilated beyond the realms of what we might call the usual evil...' - this is hardly a positive description of creating a horcrux. He describes the act as evil - something Dumbledore himself would never do.

I like slytherin_xo's idea about Fawkes beiing a horcrux - it makes a lot of sense. But i just don't see how Dumbledore can stand for all things good, and yet commit such evil.

Dumbledore definitely doesnt have a Horcrux, if he had he would have come back in book 7 but JKR has put away that topic recently saying that he wouldnt return.

My theories were that he could have had a Horcrux after defating a powerful dark wizard, he used that to his advantage to make a Horcrux because he was also studying Alchemy with Nicholas Flamel. And Flamel was also an immortal, "as long as he had the Sorcerer's Stone."

i dont think he did make a horcrux dumbledore isnt like that he couldnt have or hed coe bk alive maybe but i dont think he did make one well just have to find out wen the book comes out im so excited i cant wait though it should come out after the ootp film is out

I was sitting in class today and my mind feel upon something other than the sound of my russian teacher trying to explain how to speak the alphabet. I realized that maybe Fawkes, but possibly other things as well, is a Horcrux made by Dumbledore. I was thinking about this and thought of several reasons as to why this could be.

1) Dumbledore knew that Voldemort had made Horcruxes and would be able to live far longer than Dumbledore. Dumbledore knew that he had to do something that would be able to extend his life long enough to be able to see to it that Voldemort was in fact dead.

2) Fawkes is Dumbledore's pet, and is extremely loyal to him. Dumbledore himself says that the only reason Fawkes came to Harry's aide in CoS was because Harry showed Dumbledore great loyalty. This doesn't seem to be the actions of a normal pet. Fawkes seems to be thoroughly attached to Dumbledore.

3) Fawkes might have been made a Horcrux in book 6 after Dumbledore found out about Snape's Unbreakable Vow with Narcissa. This way, Dumbledore would be able to continue to live and also to let Snape kill him and maintain his Unbreakable Vow, thus fooling the other side once again into thinking that Snape is a bad guy.

4) A Horcrux would once again allow Dumbledore to come back into the story line, while keeping with JKR announcement that yes, he actually is dead. Dumbledore is dead, but because of his Horcrux can come back and continue to aide Harry, or maybe even possess Harry like Voldemort did. This would give Harry great power and maybe even enough to be able to kill Voldemort in the end.

5) In HBP Dumbledore tells Harry on several occasions that Harry's life or blood is more valuable that Dumbledore's. This could be because Dumbledore's soul is ripped and even if Dumbledore's body does die, he can come back because of his Horcrux, while Harry can't.

After thinking about this for a while, the idea seemed to be more and more logical to me. I just decided to post this up and see what all of ya'll think about it.

To start. It goes DD defeated the dark wizard Grindelwald, it says nothing that he killed him. and horcruxes are also some dark magic that DD would never do. I for one disagree with this entirely, it goes againced everything DD is.

When they said horcruxes were evile, maybe they meant the killing that has to take place is evile. Dumbledore loves Harry more than anything, maybe he, what's the word, honored harry for having a pure soul, because he himself did not have a pure soul. That is why he cares for harry so much.

Why? because harry had the prophecy made out about him, you know "neither can live while the other survives" means that he is the only one human on earth with his love to vanquish the Dark Lord Voldemort, that in the end when he does it, he will still have a pure soul. Something dumbledore didn't have.

So dumbledore encourages hary to pursue his revenge on voldemort.

A good question.

M.A.

It never says that dumbledore doesn't know dark magic, in the Sorcerer's Stone, Professor McGonagall says that Dumbledore doesn't know dark magic, its just that he chooses not to use it. Which is why he asks snape for help when he is injured.

Theres no way DD had a Hurcros. First it has never been astablished that he killed anyone. Second we all know hes been giving credit for the removal of the dark wizard Guildawad or how ever you spell that name, but it never says he killed him. And finally you have to prepare a hurcrox to take a soul part. I just can't see DD thinking that living forever would be a good thing.

To Traz-ak, and any other readers: DD could have had a horcrux. he was the best wizard the world has ever seen. probably the most riteous too. this doesnt mean that he couldnt have made a horcrux. He had to rid the world of Grindelwald, didnt he!?!?! well then, on this line of thought, it could be that dd wouldnt want to let the severed part of his soul, just fade away, and become useless. he would have wanted to use it for some reason. dd is the most intelligent wizard in these times! now, to make another point. dd would not have done this in vain, he would have done it, not knowing that he was to kill grindelwald. also, answer lilly_potter_blah blah's question, The Dark Lord, split his soul, seven times, where as in this theory, dd would have only split it once!! so dd would look normal, the dark lord, would look like he does now, since he did it 7 times. also, dds horcrux i think can only be one thing. Fawkes, is dds horcrux, if dd has a horcrux i mean. this would be wise on dds part, bc a pheonix never dies! just burns up then rebirths, over and over and over again. so dd would only need one horcrux, bc he would make fawkes which can never be destroyed, a horcrux!! plz, send me feedback, by use of an owl!! member sreen name is, prince_halfblood_22!!

This is what I posted in the Dumbeldore, will he return thread:

"1) Murder and making Horcruxes are illegal. DD didn't murder Grindelwald, he vanquished him, there is a difference. Don't forget, DD was one of the good guys, and therefore would not do anything like kill someone without it being for the greater good.

2) DD would never think of making a horcrux, simply because as was suggested in HBP, to do so is such a henous crime."

Like I said, the making of horcruxes is severely frowned upon, so much so that even talking about them was completely taboo in Hogwarts (hence Slughorn's utter reluctance to admit to DD that he spoke to LV about them).

We see in the memory of Slughorn's and LV's conversation about horcruxes how terrible a topic it is to discuss. To that end, there is no way that DD would ever even contemplate making a horcrux, not even for Harry's sake, because at this very moment, Harry has resisted the dark side of magic (remember the temptation LV placed before him in PS/SS?), and making a horcrux for Harry would taint him forever.

I also thoroughly reject the proposition that Fawkes could be a horcrux:

Simply because DD said it is exceedingly risky for people to use living entities as horcruxes, because they can't necessarily be controlled by the owner. Plus they have a nasty habit of dying (granted a phoenix rises from the ashes - but at the end of HBP we are told that Fawkes had left Hogwarts, and that Harry felt it was forever).

In short, no, I do not accept that DD made a horcrux purely because of the process it involves and the risks it entails. Not only that, but the premise you are basing this on is not even known to be a fact, prince_halfblood_22. I'm sorry, but it just doesn't make sense.


Edited to add:

I've been away to do my chores and whilst doing them I came to the realisation that I am positively steaming over the mere suggestion of Dumbledore having anything to do with horcruxes other than hunting them down and destroying them.

These are my reasons:

1) Dumbledore has always been portrayed as a man of utmost integrity and honour. He is the epitome of goodness and therefore the righteous enemy of LV, who is the exact opposite of those traits.

2) JKR did not ever envisage Dumbledore as anything other than a Saviour, but not the ultimate saviour, she has reserved that purpose for Harry himself.

3) I personally find the idea that Dumbledore would make a horcrux astounding - NO! offensive in the extreme.

I realise that I am going slightly over the top about this, but have you considered the point of view you are portraying by even asking these questions? You are suggesting that far from being righteous and fighting against the evil that is LV - Dumbledore is exactly the same as LV. How could you?

You say you are DD's greatest supporters, but in truth you appear to be doing nothing more than what LV has done throughout the books and reduced love and caring to nothing but power seeking self-centredness on DD's part. Is that really how you see him?

I'm sorry if my tone offends anyone here, but I personally find this topic incredibly offensive in itself. And never have I felt such passion about a fictional character, so KUDOS TO YOU, JKR!!!

I completely agree Magelirose.... JKR has outdone herself in creating a powerful, smart, responsible role model for Harry and us to follow, love, and respect. But to think that people would actually think that Dumbledore would split his soul, even on the off-chance that it was torn from murder, is an absolutely unbelievabe concept to me. The man in question regards love above all things, he values the completion and power of a pure soul... he would not want to harm his soul by commiting murder... let alone splitting it, ripping his soul apart unnaturally placing it in an object like some sort of tool... absolutely mind-boggling!

I will admit, that at a time, I too considered this option... I may have even posted in this very thread supporting it... but that was pre-August 2nd, pre- end of Dumbledore could have faked his death theories... when i was naive and clinging to the hope that Dumbledore was not dead, could come back, and even that he may have had a horcrux!! Blasphemy... I know

But now I have come to realize, that no matter how much I hope and wish for a return of some sort, Dumbledore will always be the same great wizard we all love... and will continue to show his wisdom after death... even if that means no return...

So no... Dumbledore wouldnt have had a Horcrux.




yes many will find this offensive... both your post and my own... but the topic itself, while it does need discussed, is very ...crude... thats the only way I can put it...

there has to be better theories...

~Albus

P.S.- as for Dumbledore killing Grindelwald... read my fanfic... it may be a fanfic but i think it could have been along those lines.... so as to keep Dumbledore's soul whole

I don't think Dumbledore has a horcrux. That's just not what I thin of Dumbledore. JK made him sound like the modest good-guy, that he is, he couldn't of made a horcrux. Well, he could have, but I just think the whole thing is weird. I can't really compare Voldemort and Dumbledore by saying they both killed people and made horcruxes. I just can't.

im not too keen on the dumbledore making a horcux theory as in HBP when Harry is taken into the new Headmistress's office (Mcgonagall) he notices a portrait of DD snoozing on the wall.....HBP pg 584 'And a new portrait had joined the ranks of the dead headmasters and head mistresses of Hogwarts ... Dumbledore was slumbering ina golden frame over the desk.....' if he had made a horcux the portrait wouldnt hvae appeared

I don't think DD would make a Horcrux I agree that horcuxes are dark magic and why would he want one. it would have had to be destroyed any way, because DD is dead.

I created a topic on this... sorry to corjp !!! now that i'm straightened out. I'm going to post my entire topic starter here. I read the first few posts of this thread, and the one above had an interesting quote... it's a good point AlbusD. Although I doubt Dumbledore is after immortality... seriously, I do think what DD Said sounds like voldemort and his loyal death eaters.. but in a good way as he needs "followers", friends, to bring him back once he's gone. After I quote my starting post from "Dumbledore....everything...", my topic which was closed cause of this one , I have something amazing (I think!) to add. Read please???



After I had posted that ^ I realised something... Sorry if it has already been noticed and accounted for in this thread or anywhere else, i didn't have time to read this entire thread ... BUT

In the first book... matter of fact, in the very first scene, Doubledore and McGonagal discuss Hagrid. McGonagal expresses fears about leaving baby Harry with Hagrid but Dumbledore reassures here "I would trust Hagrid with my life" (I think those were his exact words). "I would trust Hagrid with my life."... Sounds like JK added a foreshadowing before we knew we had to look for one. If anyone remembers, Hagrid was prominant (sp?sorry no time to spllcheck) at Dumbledore's funeral. If I remember, he carried Dumbledore to the "tomb" (please correct me!!! if I'm forgetting) Hagrid also seems to be growing in significence, especially in the fight scene in HBP. There was more in Dumbledore's words than a simple expression of trust, whether Dumbledore meant it or JK left us a clue.

~.Film.<

Yes, I agree that there is most likely more to Dumbledore's words than we see. I have pondered this from the moment Hagrid "moved the body". Im not sure how it will come into play... but I must bring up another statement made by Dumbledore quite close to the one you bring up:



I think that quote perfectly outline the fact that Dumbledore himself knows that there are certain powers in this world that no respectable witch or wizard would use... including himself. I have said it before, and I will say it again. If Dumbledore returns through the use of a Horcrux (which is impossible because Horcruxes do not allow death, and JKR said he was "dead", so onto others theories!!) I will be very disappointed, and he better have a really good explanation. Dumbledore would not use a Horcrux. Here is a post that I wrote before.






~Albus

yes, I dearly hope Dumbledore is not resorting to evil to do good... but would dumbledore sacrafice himself? I think so. Heck, if he's really dead, he already has. but a horcrux, no matter how terrible, would be something Dumbledore would undertake ONLY to defeat Voldemort and save the lives of others, possiblly hoping that his doing so would keep others from having to do it, such as Harry, if for some reason Harry needed to provide for desaster in the plan.

I don't want this...

if it's not true, but Dumbledore is alive, I think Hagrid has something to do with it. That's where I'll leave it for now.

i think it is highly unlikely that dumbledore returns or has made a horcrux of his own as this would complicate the plot in the 7th book for JK. i think JK intended dumbledore to die and one of the soul purposes of him being in the plot was to equipt harry with everything he needed to eradicate LV.

how ever on the general train of thaught:

if killing (as an ultimate sin) splits the soul, that is to desroy it or diminish its form into fragments, to form horcruxes, then maybe and ultimate act of love could create a new soul.
in otherwords for DD to make love to a woman and have a child.

it makes sense but its not realistic in the current plot.

I don't think that DD created a Horcrux for a simple reason. Harry couldn't even use the Cruciatus spell, because he was not it proper mind for this. It was written that you really need to want to give pain and probably enjoy it, and Harry was not the right person for that. I think that creating a Horcrux is in the same league. It's not just enough to kill somebody, because a lot of people did this and they did not get a Horcrux out of it. It's the intent of the killing that makes a Horcrux. You kill somebody with the intent of getting an object that is supposed to help you. This means that, by creating a Horcrux, you put yourself above everything and totally disregard something as petty as a human live and the act of killing is the "proof" of it. A Horcrux has a totally selfish motivation and I don't really see DD doing that, because it would violate everything that he believes in. He doesn't even support Scrimegour(?) the new minister because of a similar reason. And also a spell like a Horcrux is sulrey nothing that you can do by accident, so you have to plan for it like LV did.

I don't really think that DD will play a big role in book 7, even though I would be very glad if he would be resurrected, but somehow I don't think this would happen. He might make an appaearence in the same manners has HPs parents did when he encountered LV, but nothing substantial IMO. HP doesn't need him to finish the job. Normally a classic ending starts by the hero loosing everything to oputgrow himself and become the hero. If DD is still there then HP wouldn't be requierd to do this, and we also heard that there will be an important death in B7 as well. I think this could be Ginny, because she is not really a strong character, or it could be Hermione or Ron for the shockeffect.

Another reason why I'm convinced that DD is dead, is because of his portrait. Somehow I think this wouldn't have appeared if he were not truly dead, but we don't really know much about these portraits. Do they only appear if the person is truly dead, or just when they vacate their job as the Hogwarts head?

Ok well this may have already been said, in fact thinking about it it probably has, but I'm gonna say it anyways! lol. Dumbledore would not have made a horcrux because he wasn't afraid of death. The reason Voldemort made them was to prevent dying because that was his greatest fear. Dumbledore however, looked at death as "the next great adventure." And has told Voldemort repeatedly that "there are things worse than death." So I can't see him taking the steps in Dark Magic to make a Horcrux.

~Ginny~

Well okay, what if you are right and DD has already "split his soul" by murdering someone else? Why would he then have had to get Harry to trick Slughorn into revealing the memory where slughorn tells LV how to create a Horcrux. DD would have already known, if he did so when he defeated Grendewald.

Perhaps it is dark magic so deep that DD needed to find a way for Harry to discover, without Having to mention it himself, perhaps so. This is possible since DD already had destroyed one horcrux, the ring, at great cost to himself. (Soooo have I just answered my own objection?)

At some point in time DD states that LV is indeed a powerful wizard in ways that DD cannot be, and someone, McGonnagall, I think, says that DD is simply too noble to do those things.

Ok, well, while it is possible that Dumbledore could have made a horcrux because he has killed someone (A dark wizard who came before Voldemort whose name I can't remember, sorry!). I really don't think he did. First of all the only reason somebody would make a horcrux is to excape death. The only reason you would want to escape death is if you are afraid of it. And, as we all know, Dumbledore was NOT afraid of death. He always said that "Death was just the next great adventure." And that "People who fear death are merely afraid of the unkown." And "There are many things worse than death." So why would he take the nesesary [sp? I'm sorry I know my spelling is terrible], evil, steps to avoid it? I really can't come up with a reason as to why he would waste time avoiding death if he wasn't afraid to die.

Also, when Voldemort's Avada Kedavera curse was rebounded onto him his body was diminished and he became just the shrivled part of the soul that he had left in him. Dumbledore's body, however, was still completely intact. Remember after he died Harry sat with him for a while before Ginny came and brought him to the hospital wing. He still remained whole.

~Ginny~

I doubt Dumbledore has a Horcrux for several reasons.
1. Horcruxes a very dark magic and dumby would never do dark magic if he didnt have to.
2. A horcrux helps avoid death and we all know dumby saw death as the next adventure.
3. I dont have the exact link but on J.k. website she say Dumby is really dead and will not pull a gandalf is I believe how mugglenet put it so he isnt coming back.

In a HPDH thread I just theorized that DD might, instead of having had a horcrux (which I think is very very unlikely), actually have been a horcrux. This might have been accomplished during the visit LV/Tom made asking for a job that "both of them knew DD would never give him". LV grabbed at his wand, apparently, during that interview. Since we do not know what it is like for the horcrux spell to transpire, it is possible that it was transpiring right there.

Wait, hang on, I thought that during the interview was when he jinxed the DADA job? I'm sorry I'm a little tired and that just really confused me. Could you please explain that one again? thanks.

I dont think that Dumbledore had a horcrux because in order to create a horcrux u must split ur soul and to split ur soul you must commit a murder which I dont think Dumbledore would ever do.

dd deffinatley did not have a horcrux(?), he is a good wizard who would never cheat death and just let destiny take its toll, dd would never of let himself be consumed by dark magic, or, another possiblity dd could have been into dark magic when he was younger and made a horcrux(?) then but when he matured he realised that good magic is better, so u never know.

I think he did. The evil part about Horcruxes is the murder involved. Murdering someone damages your soul. You are no longer "pure." Dumbledore killed Grindlewald in order to defeat him, so it would make sense that if he knew that he had to kill him, he would try to protect his own soul.

There are several hints, almost, that make me believe that when Snape cast the Avada Kedavra curse, something wasn't right. In the other books the killing curse is described differently...flash of green light and you're dead.....you crumple to the floor and you're done....

"There was a flash of green light, a rushing sound,and Frank Bryce crumpled."15GOF

"There was a flash of blinding green light and a rushing sound, as though a vast, invisible something was soaring through the air--instaneously the spider rolled on its back, umarked, but unmistakably dead."216GOF

"A blast of green light blazed through Harry's eyelids, and he heard something heavy fall to the ground beside him."638GOF

"Another flash of green lightflew from behind the silver shield.This time it was the one-armed centaur, galloping in front of Dumbledore, that took the blast and shattered into a hundred pieces, but before the fragments even hit the floor."814 OOTP

So we've established that.....It's a flash of green light that kills you on the spot....no cool tricks, you're just dead. D-E-D Dead

"A jet of green light shot from the end of Snape's wand and hit Dumbledore squarely in the chest. Harry's scream of horror never left him; silent and unmoving, he was forced to watch as Dumbledore was blasted into the air. For a split second, he seemed to hang suspended beneath the shining skull, and then he fell slowly backward, like a great rag doll, over the battlements and out of sight." 596HBP

Woah, broke the rule. Dumbledore had cool tricks with his curse... Perhaps it was his soul leaving the body as Voldie's did, when he tried to kill Harry....We know that his body was creamated but that doesn't mean his soul was lost.

I'm nearly 100% convinced that Fawkes is Dumbledore's Horcrux. The bond between the bird and himself serve as a foil to Voldie and Nagini. Where Harry can destroy Nagini, a phoenix will just be reborn. Dumbledore said that as long as there were those loyal to him, he would never really be gone in the second book. Harry showed loyalty to Dumbledore and Fawkes came.....I think there's definitely more than meets the eye

(I can't believe i wrote that much....sorry)

i'm tourn wether or not his has one but if he did wouldnt you have seen his soul emerge from the body as seen when voldemort fled from quirrel in the first film i dont no.

but it also brings us bake the fawkes as he never leaves dd's office unless he has been given an instruction like keeping a look out, but if so how did dd get fawkes in the first place what would be so special about it did it belong to all of the previous headmasters/mistresses as riddle knew about it, also dd knows alot about and it conets alot of things toghter like in the first book dd said that music is a our greatest strenght or something and fawkes always plays music like in the fourth book when harry is in the gravyard
the bird also could have belonged the gryffindor himself as its plums are are red and gold the same coulors as the gryffindor house colurs.


so as isaid at the begining i'am tourn between him having one or not!?(i just made myself even more confussed!)

I'm positive DD did not have a Horcrux. Yes AK seemed weird but DD probably wouldn't have had a Horcrux because:

~ He talks about how evil it is to split your soul. Why would he do something he thinks is so bad? I doubt it. Murdering someone is only half of it. Murdering a dark wizard is a good thing.

~ robbie1955 I agree with what you said about magic DD can't or won't use. Horcruxes almost definetly fall into that catagory.

If DD had a horcrux, he would not have died. Thats the end of it.

I am completely sure that he doesn't have a horcrux.

1. COz it's really dark magic. Really evil. Why would a nice wizard do dark magic just to prolong his existence? Dumby doesn't seem the type who wants immortality.

2. It means having to split your soul. Like the Slug said, it's against nature. It's bad to split you're soul coz it's meant to be whole. Dumby won't do something like that. Slug even said that death is preferable than having a split soul stuck in an object.

No,he couldn't have made one.
Horcruxes are really evil.You have to murder someone to make one.Dumbledore would never have done that.

No I don't think that DD would have made horcrux, be cause he is a good man, and horcruxes are evil. Also if he made horcruxes then he would be just as low as Voldemort. DD looks at death as the next big adventure or something like that, so why would he want to become imortal? I don't think that DD could kill any one to make a horcrux with in the first place.

oh wow, very good point :/
and yes i really do think we havent seen the last of albus either :)
im just so excited to see what happens in DH!

I don't think that Dumbledore had a horcrux because he doesn't believe in using that kind of dark magic. He probably destroyed Grindiwal (sp) by another way.

I doubt DD would have one because it takes very dark magic to make one. While DD has had the power to use dark magic. It was always stated that he was to noble to use such magic.

yeah i could see Dd havin created a horcux..just to make sure no one like grindlewall will ever return...check this right..

he helped create the scorcurs stone...gives u eternal life...why would Dd look to create such a thing?..maybe grindlewald done something so terrible to Dd or his family or loved one that he vowed he'd protect all people from dark wizards..then after hearin the prophey that there will be no more dark lords if harry destroys voldy..he decided he could use the horcux that he made to set up his death

I know this thread is pretty much dead and we have some proof he didn't have one now, with DH, but I'll give in my opinion anyway.

I don't think Dumbledore would of made a Horcrux, because we know that he sort of half-knew Voldemort had made one and he was sort of afraid of the Dark Arts. Horcruxes are waaay to dark for DD to do such a thing. And I know that DD is not afraid of death and would have absolutely no reason to make a horcrux.

I don't want people getting mad at me for this post so I will put DH spoilers on all of it.

I really don't think Dumbledore has a horcrux.

b. Slughorn clearly said that horcruxes are almost the most evil thing you can get. Dumbledore really hated the subject.

On the other hand, if he did have a horcrux, I think it would be The Elder Wand or the Cloak because he maybe though it wold be safe with Harry.

I know this is all not true but these are just my thoughts.
Ryan