The old thread has been archived and may be found here - please refer to Matthew's original post here before replying.

Thanks.

Okay...carry on then!

OK, OK. You got me. I thought I'd strangle Snape for killing off my favourite character. But after I read your opinnions ...
Firstly, if I presume that Snape did not betray Dumbledore (though it still seems to me like - You too, Brutus, you too?) and that Dumbledore knew all about Snape's Vow nad stuff - maybe this would be also a reason why Albus freezed Harry. Firstly for Harry's safety and for Snape and Malfoy's as well. But still ... I think Snape betrayed him. Double-agents are always to worry about - either for our or enemy's side.

But what disturbs me is Dumbledore's plead. It seemed (and, please, give me the sentence that proves this isn't true) that he WAS pleading for his life and not for I-don't-know-whose-traitor's security.

Gee, I loved this character soo much ... See, maybe he really pleaded for his life, maybe there had been a secret Harry doesn't know yet, maybe there's been something Albus should help Harry realise, understand, or maybe only help ...

OK, Rowling, I don't like you for doing this, but the sentence (I don't know how it goes, sister's reading and she'd finish me off had I disturbed her so, the sentence about how Harry was now alone to face the Murderer and that he had to take action. But how would he do this ... ? I understand Dumbledore thought highly of him only, he's so young and posses great lack of experience and knowledge and I do not know what. I still think that Voldy is quite a great wizard ...

well no one would have really suspected dumbledore to die.BUT if voldemort only really fears dumbledore and when he's around harry he should be fine and voldemort wants to kill harry. Snape took voldemorts side and killed dumbledore maybe for voldemort or just decided to. all questions should be answered in book 7

i knew dumbledor was going to die because in the third book at christmas dinner it was said to be 12 people at the table but ron had his rat well petter in his pocket and mrs rowlings made a point to say dumbledor stood up to greet professor trealawny and when 13 dine the first to rise is the first to die. i didnt think it would be this book though

Yeah ... can't wait next book ... as it will be the last (of those - meant-to-be), JK will unveil all terrible secrets
And, yeah, I kind of think that Hogwarts will reopen and that Harry comes back. For Rowling herself there's 7 years of Hogwarts. Well, don't know if that proves anything, it seemed much more convincing not written down
right. and, yeah, dumbledore's death ... he was one of my favourites, as Snugthing would say

It wouldn't be Harry Potter if Harry didn't go to Hogwarts, and Harry still needs his training if he wants to defeat Voldemort. And thats a good observation mandyrs2005, i thought it'd be Ron to die because he and Harry got up but they didn't notice who, but i didn't think of Scappers/Pettrigrew.

Guys, come on...please....try and stay on topic. This thread is for DD's death - not the future of Hogwarts. There are other threads for that.

Maybe Dumbledore knew that if he died, Voldemort would be more careless and maybe underestimate Harry's knowledge of the Horcruxes, giving Harry a chance.

I was totally upset about dumbeldore, cried my eyes out! i would like to think that he sacrificed himself for the cause in a predetermine pact with snape, however i am not 100% on that. i think that when dumbledore said early in the book that when he makes a mistake, they are usually bigger mistakes because he is so wise, maybe trusting snape was a mistake, please she wrote that he had a look of hate in his eyes when he did the curse. i was glad at the fact that dumbledore was slepping in his new portrait when they went into the office for a meeting. so at least there is some imprint of him still in the world and at hogwarts. that's cool. still really sad though, hope we can see more of the portrait in book 7

Even though Dumbledore makes mistakes, I just can't see him making such a huge mistake. I think that no matter what, Dumbledore would make sure he knew everything about Snape before he trusted him. Dumbledore would not make a mistake that resulted in his death. I am now very sure that he and snape planned it.

I understand where you're coming from, Rojaneer. Respectfully, I disagree ... for in "Phoenix" Dumbledore himself told Harry of the flaw in the plan he had to keep Harry safe, the flaw that he cared too much for him, and that he had acted "exactly as Voldemort expects we fools who love to act."

On the other hand, Sirius did tell the trio in "Goblet" that while he knows Dumbledore trusts where others don't, he just couldn't see Dumbledore letting Snape teach if he'd ever worked for Voldemort.

So basically, I have no idea what to think. Blimey, what a waste of parchment ... er, a post!

By di_the_mad_muggle

Yea very sad when i read that part about snape killing dumbledore , BUT i dont think he died. i bet hes going t come back somehow. A wizard like himself probably found out another way to bring himself back. He ll come back I think he ll come out when you wont expect it. and yes i am hermonie' husband

I think Snape is on Dumbledore's side based on certain points in the latter part of the book:

1st: Earlier on, Hagrid told Harry that Snape was angry with Dumbledore and did not wish to do the job anymore. This job is most likely not DADA since we know Snape has always wanted that job. Something Dumbledore wants is against Snape's will.

2nd: Snape's face is full of anger and fury when he murders Dumbledore. Dumbledore has always been a strong, intelligent, and brave person, so I do not think he was pleading for his life, but rather pleading to Snape to kill him. This is against Snape's will which is why his face is full of anger (since Dumbledore's been the only person ever to give Snape a chance).

3rd: Snape loses control of his emotions when Harry calls him a coward. The only other time Snape has lost his temper like this is when Sirius escaped. He yells, "DON'T - CALL ME COWARD!" because he has just done the most difficult thing ever to do for him (murdering Dumbledore) and possibly forced to by Dumbledore.

4th: Snape almost seems to be giving Harry advice when he is escaping. He says, "Blocked again, and again, and again until you learn to keep your mouth shut and your mind closed, Potter!" This referring to Harry's weakness to succumbing to anger.

While again this topic is up for discussion until JKR releases the final book, these 4 examples are all open to interpretation, IMO they hint that Snape is on Dumbledore's side.

P.S. - The whole Snape is explaining to Bellatrix scene is also up for interpretation, whether he is on LV's side or he is following Dumbledore's orders to act as though he is on LV's side.

Okay, so I don't know exactly what I think of "The Death" and what's going to happen, whether or not Snape really betrayed DD, the business with the portrait...blah blah...but anyway, I have this ridiculous idea that I don't really believe in all that much, but it is still a mildly interesting thought. What if DD knew that Snape was going to kill him but let it happen because he thought it had to happen for Harry to forge ahead in killing Voldemort? DD immobilized Harry rather than defend himself. Perhaps this was out of his want to protect Harry at all costs, but maybe it was to keep Harry from getting in the way of what DD thought had to happen. Maybe he knew Draco wouldn't follow through and so would fall out of favor with Voldemort and have to switch sides. It's pretty ridiculous, as it's crazy that any character would be that perfect...but it's just a thought.

Hi...new to the site, but thrilled to see all the conversation. Here are a couple random thoughts of mine.

First, I'm in the "DD somehow staged the death" camp. There seems too strong a connection between the phoneix and DD. It was his pet and his patronus. I think JK did that for some reason... Could be wishful thinking, but I think there will be a rise from the ashes type of event for DD. I mean, who really knows the breadth adn depth of DD's powers.

Also, DD was just telling Draco about how the Order could stage Draco and Narcissa's death as a means of hiding them. That was what threw me into thinking maybe he's not really dead.

For completeness, Snape may not have been in on it. I do think he was acting under DD's orders...to kill him if this scenario presented itself...to save Draco's innocence. DD's pleading was for Snape to do what he was directed to do. Also tieing in with the argument that Hagrid overheard between Snape and DD.

Also, I don't think DD's portrait in the headmaster's office necessarily inidcates that he's dead. The portraits are of the "previous" head master's, not just "dead" ones.

Of course, this may all be wishful hypothesizing. I was *crushed* when I read the death the first time. DD's got more of a role to play. I'm not counting him out.

From the point of a story Dumbledore did have to die for Harry to step up and take his place as the hero, but I don’t buy that Dumbledore would just sit back and let it happen. Dumbledore was much more valuable to Harry alive then dead. As far as petrifying Harry, Dumbledore did it to protect Harry. It could have been Voldemort himself walking up those stairs, by freezing Harry under the cloak it insured that no matter what happened, Harry would be safe.
Also, just let me say that we all wish that Dumbledore was alive and faked his death, but the chances of that are pretty much nil. The main reason of which being that Dumbledore dieing in front of Harry would cause huge problems for him emotionally. DD would never do that. If Dumbledore were going to fake his own death Harry would have been let in on it.

If dumbledore is REALLY dead- then Rowling has ruined the book.

There is absolutely NO WAY in the world that the most powerful wizard in the world cannot defend himself, or even see what is coming. He wouldn't be a moron and fly to the tower- he wouldn't be killed by snape.

Some of you may say that he died on purpose.

In front of harry? Um, no. If anything, that would destroy harry, not help him.

and finally- DUMBLEDORE WOULD NOT PLEAD FOR HIS LIFE!

but he wouldn't plead for his death either-

the only possibility that would make sense is that dumbledore is wormtail, in disguise, somehow, unless polyjuice potion wears off after being killed.


Nevertheless, if dumbledore is dead, then rowling has failed.

It's like rock-paper scissors.

The only way rowling can escape ruination of the HP series is by bringing dumbledore back somehow.

It makes no sense for him to die- Now harry has no defense- no one can stop voldemort. I have no idea just HOW rowling is going to wriggle her way out of this one.

Like i said-

1) Dumbledore is too smart to get himself into a situation like he did.
2)He would not plead for his death.
3)He would not plead for his life.


The only explanation is that wormtail is dumbledore... which still leaves the fact that snape's expressions wouldn't have been like that if he had killed wormtail. He probably would have had no expression whatsoever had wormtail been dumbledore.


I'm sorry, but my best guess is that rowling screwed up. Dumbledore was my favorite character, the most powerful wizard in the world, and get gets disarmed by a ** 16 year old? SURE, JK ROWLING, SURE. YOU JUST RUINED HARRY POTTER.

MOD EDIT: Swearing is not allowed on the forums be it in abbreviation form or replacing them with asteriks. I strongly suggest you read the rules page if you haven't already.

Sadly, I think that DD is truly dead. I think that JKR is much to clever than to do something that's already been done. (LOTR Gandalf). I also think that it would be too far of a stretch to think that it's truly wormtail in disguise. I mean if it was Wormtail wouldn't Snape not have killed the real DD making his unbreakable vow still valid. I mean Snape had to kill DD to fulfill his vow or both he and Malfoy would die. Of course, there was the rising of the phoenix when DD's tomb was formed which could indicate a possible resurrection. I mean just because it's been done, it doesn't mean that it can't happen again. Afterall, dementors kinda do remind me of ringwraiths.

I also think the death of dumbledore has taken something out of these books.I Know it aint going to happen but it would be great for dumbledore to return.HERE are some things im not sure about.

Firstly why was DD body lain like it was a sleep after he fell?

If Snape hasnt really betrayed DD maybe he didnt put enough power into is curse and maybe it was a show so not to blow snapes cover as a spy

If this is true DD would after fake his death and work in secret against Voldy so not to blow his cover

Maybe after the fall dumbledore transfigured(his speciality)something into his body and left hogwarts to fight Voldy secretly.

I want these to be true but they probably arent but we never know dumbledore might have taken his own steps to immortallity.He certainly did something of the sort because of how old he is.

Why didnt he NOT put a freeze on harry and defend himself with his wand i mean we seen the stuff he can do why not disarm draco then precced to the other death eaters wouldnt this have been a better plan?

I was expecting fawkes the phoenix to actually heal dumbledore and were was fawkes why didnt he come to DD's aid and swallow the curse or whatever?I was expecting fawkes to bring dumbledore to life.

Also maybe this was part of dd's plan to lure voldy into a false sense of security.


Can anyone clear these thing up?

(: Such an interesting conversation.

I think ScarletTonks has a very good point about the "rise from the ashes" theory.
It seems to make sense, especially after the scene where Dumbledore's body is surrounded by flames, and Harry catches a glimpse of a phoenix flying.
I still have hope that Dumbledore will return, he's such an important character.

But I can also see why Dumbledore chose to 'die' infront of Harry, perhaps he had planned for Harry to realize he had to face Voldermort himself, that he had to be independent?
Who knows.

This could all be very wishful thinking, but it certainly makes me feel a little better.

I was devestated after finishing the book, I started crying on page 536 all the way to the end.
Pretty lame I know, but it was just so sad.


So here's hoping Dumbledore comes back!

I think I agree with Scarlet Tonks's theory about him rising from the ashes but, I also have a feeling that he knew he was going to die soon because why would he teach Harry all those things about Voldemort's past and the Horcruxes if he thought he was going to live longer.

Here is an interesting thought... Maybe dumbeldore has an horocux somehwere ?


that noone knows of ofcourse...

my first reaction to this book was really shock. I thought how could dumbledore die, i mean hes dumbledore!!but after thinking about what i had read, i think it was best that dumbledore did die, He cant fight harrry's battles for him anymore, Harry has to kill voldermort all by himself. I also believe that for that very reason dumbledore was asking snape to kill him.

just a theory: Perhaps dumbledore isn't dead..at least not for good. What if Dumbledore is an animingus(spelling) and that his alter self is none other than a phoenix....This would allow him to die because as we all know a phoenix will always rise from the ashes. Afterall harry believed he saw a phoenix in the smoke at the funeral if only for a second. and Dumbledor does seem to be very fond of the phoenix. i.e. fawkes, his patronas... Perhaps Dumbledore is much much older than we think. Perhaps he is even Gryfindor himself..(ok that's a stretch) but the phoenix part could possible be true. and possible Snape had known this. just a thought. debunk it for me so I can stop pretending he's not dead.

If the ability to create a Horcrux is something that Voldemort could do, why couldn't there be something similar on the side of good magic? If you carefully re-read the chapter where Dumbledore was killed and the conversion prior to Snape's entrance it seems as if (1) Dumbledore is distracting/protecting Harry (2) He's telling Malfoy that it is he (Dumbledore) that is extending the mercy and it seems to me that Dumbledore was in complete control of his destiny. He was as skilled a wizard as the world had seen. Do you think he was really going to be caught unaware? I'm convinced that Snape's expression was because he didn't want to kill Dumbledore, but was bound by his word, especially because of his reaction when Harry called him a Coward--he had just done the hardest thing he had ever done--carried out his word and Killed Dumbledore.

Maybe Dumbledore had a horcrux itself and will manifest itself as the 'Phoenix rises'

i dont know what to think because right now JKR made it so we would be thinking is snape a traitor or not i was alway wondering that during the 6th book. he could be on our side because he did save harry during harrys first year during the quidditch match but then again he could be on the other side because if he was really sorry about giving voldemort the first part of the prophecy which eventually left to the death of james potter he wouldnt be that mean to harry. so i think we will have to wait two years to find out

I definitely think that Dumbledore made Snape kill him whether it was by an unbreakable oath or another way. I am still wondering about the significance of Harry seeing the phoenix flying from Dumbledores grave. Is is related to Harry saying that while people still believed in Dumbledore they will always et hep form him - like in Camber of Secrets when Fawlkes comes to Harry's rescue?

First things first ... to VS7, J.K. Rowling has not ruined Harry Potter. Furthermore, it is impossible for her to do so, as it is her creation and certainly none of us could do any better (though I have read some rather impressive fan fictions, but that's beside the point). Just because the story didn't turn out the way one wanted does not mean the author failed. Please don't misunderstand me, I am not flaming you, but it is important that an author follows his or her own vision. Though ... Dumbledore's death did upset me too, but hey, it's a war, and people die.

I like the idea that Dumbledore could come back as an Animagus-phoenix form. I personally don't believe it will happen, but it will be a very pleasant surprise if it does. I don't think Dumbledore will come back as a ghost, given Nick's explanation about ghosts at the end of "Phoenix."

I was once a believer that Fawkes was Godric Gryffindor himself, in Animagus form. Not so, not so.

i totally agree with Penguin Dude

this might seem a little farfetched but i think dumbledore wanted harry to see him die because why else would he have froze him to see it? i also think that it is almost like what happened in star wars, obi wan kenobi (sorry if i spelt it wrong) sacrificed himself so harry would get angry and want to find the horcruxes even more

i think Dumbeldore is definitely dead - JK has as much as admitted it. Also look at star wars (much of the harry plotline is taken from this) where OBi-Wan sacrifices himself so that Luke will take up his mantle and defeat the dark side. maybe Dumbledore is doing the same for Harry?

i really think DD is truely dead....

but i feel that DD died in hopes for harry to finally grow up fully and realize what he must do.... he is the one who must vanquish the DL and he can no longer hide behind DD

i do not believe DD was pleading to snape for his life, but rather for snape to kill him so Malfoy would remain innocent..... as someone has stated above...... it is too obvious that snape has swapped sides which makes me believe the above more.... i mean when has a plot of the book actually turned out the way we expect ?? The points above about Snape's reactions to being called a "Coward" and the arguement he and DD had that Hagrid overheard only strengthens these points more..... I read somewhere in the theories that some people Snape will be a Hero at the end and must prove himself, only there would people feel sad about him dieing..... i agree with this too, i dont believe snape to be evil, so i do believe he is still on DD's side

about the whole animagus thing where DD will come back- i doubt it but its wishfull thinking..... yes DD was powerful, but i just think that he is gone...... i doubt he did any horcruxes because he explains his discussed by the idea of splitting up your soul so you can live again... remember DD does not fear death, he feels there are other things worse then death......

well, i really cried when i Dumbledore died! seriously sad, but i guess it was necessary. i guess it's true that Harry has to face the very worst on his own without anyone with him. All the people who could have given him support - his parents, Sirius and now even Dumbledore are now gone. Harry will also come of age n the next book and is already more mature...so I suppose Dumbledore had to be killed of to ensure that the climactic book 7 has a showdown between Harry and Voldemort....a one-on-one confrontation.
JKR says that she'll take two more years for the next one!! boo hoo!! i mean, i grew with harry till book 5 coz i read my first when i wa 11...and now i'm 17 and by the time the last one's out i'll be 19...alas! lol..that was so off topic...

I like the idea of DD as an unregistered phoenix animagus. We've never known DD to be an animagus, and surely someone so great, especially at transfiguration, would have mastered it.

And who's to say that Harry seeing DDs "death" wasn't part of the plan to steel Harry's nerves for the final battle? I agree with others that the death served a purpose in putting Harry in the right mind set to do what he must. But DD is too great a wizard for it all to be so simple and straightforward. I think Harry still needs DDs guidance to do the final deed.

I'll accept it if in Book 7 he's "really" dead, but I would be surprised if he still didn't play a part.

And where did Fawkes go?

I disagree with those who speculate that DD might have a horcrux. Aren't they so horrible? That ripping of the soul? I think only the truly evil would even consider tearing apart their soul as a last ditch against death. And death was not feared by DD.

And last, Pettigrew never struck me as intelligent enough to pull off being DD. Even with polyjuice potion, he could never have that DD ness.

I wanted to discuss one thing. The fact that Dumbledore is so important I was also thinking that maybe Dumbledore is not dead after all…!! May be he is going to return in the next book! And may be this is just a plan of Dumbledore so voldemort (I am brave hehe) thinks that he is dead…and is not on guard! This can also mean that snape is not a death eater and he may be helping Dumbledore to carry out his plan??…what do u guyz think??

I like the idea that Dumbledore could be an animagus. That would mean that it was him who delivered the sorting hat and Godric Gryfindors sword in COS. Also, it could mean that Harry will find alot of help from what he thinks is Fawkes in the 7th book, but is actually Dumbledore. I can see this happening because JKR likes to tie events from old books into the latter ones and I think that would tie in nicely. However, if Dumbledore is not dead, we won't find out until the end of book 7, not the middle of it.

It is unfortunate, but Dumbledore is dead. In the book Harry was released from the spell because the caster is dead. But I believe that Dumbledore will still be around book 7 and will help Harry. The help will be coming from his portrait in the headmaster’s office (where the portraits are all interactive). I won’t be surprised if he will communicate with Harry through the card HP got on the train in the first book.

When I first read the chapter of Dumbledores Death I wanted to kill Snape. There seems to be a lot more to it though. Though I am convinced Dumbledore is dead I hope that his trust really can still lie with Sanpe. I would hate for him to be wrong (after all he is my favorite character).
I was shocked when Dubledore died because it always seemed like he would be there and I also never would have thought it would have happened in tha HBP. Well all I got to say pretty meaningless though.

If Dd is really dead, then it is going to be really hard to finish the HP series without him and make sense. He is just SOOOO important to Harry's education. On the adventure to retrieve the horcrux from the cave, Harry was of no use except to force that liquid down Dd's throat. How can he find the other Horcruxes without Dd?? I don't even think other members of the Order could do what Dd did. And I don't know how Snape is going to offer any use to Harry (IF he trully ISN'T a real death eater....) until Harry reaches the final showdown and then Snape will have a chance to help fight off the Death Eaters while Harry faces Vold. alone. But that's another topic.... Even if Dd offers help through his portrait, it isn't going to be the same as actually being there. I cannot wait until the 7th book comes out but I think it's going to be hard to give Harry the intellegence and powers he needs without a helping hand from Dd.

Man, i had to go back and re-read to make sure i understood it correctly. Snape, however, did make sure that Harry wasnt touched and definitely not killed... Which, perhaps was under Dumbledore's orders, but I'm sure that Dumbledore, the wise man that he was, knows that if he himself can hardly track down these horcruxes, then Harry would stand no chance without him....
Also, I kept thinking about this... In the beginning of the book when Harry got paralized and lost his wand, he tried to do some non-verbal spell (and the book says... how Harry knew Dumbledore could)... So my point is... that even if Malfoy disarmed Dumbledore, Dumbledore could've gotten his wand back in the blink of an eye and done something to Malfoy and waited with some sort of trap for the Death Eaters....
Perhaps, this would be a sign that this was all planned... And we all know Dumbledore... he always has a trick up his sleeve... there was a reason for this... and JKR left the possibility of the portrait, so Harry could probably talk to him there... But then Dumbledore cant go anywhere he wants... so MAYBE, just maybe, Dumbledore plans to become a ghost at Hogwarts... sure its not the same, but he could at least travel places maybe... who knows really..? but im pretty sure that Dumbledore wont be going unmentioned in the 7th book without a major role... I also think that being that there are so many unanswered questions and so many Horcruxes left to find.. the seventh book will be very very long, or hopefully JKR plans to suprisingly publish more than 7 books... but i kind of doubt that possibility...

I also think the death of dumbledore has taken something out of these books.I Know it aint going to happen but it would be great for dumbledore to return.HERE are some things im not sure about.

Firstly why was DD body lain like it was a sleep after he fell?

If Snape hasnt really betrayed DD maybe he didnt put enough power into is curse and maybe it was a show so not to blow snapes cover as a spy

If this is true DD would after fake his death and work in secret against Voldy so not to blow his cover

Maybe after the fall dumbledore transfigured(his speciality)something into his body and left hogwarts to fight Voldy secretly.

I want these to be true but they probably arent but we never know dumbledore might have taken his own steps to immortallity.He certainly did something of the sort because of how old he is.

Why didnt he NOT put a freeze on harry and defend himself with his wand i mean we seen the stuff he can do why not disarm draco then precced to the other death eaters wouldnt this have been a better plan?

I was expecting fawkes the phoenix to actually heal dumbledore and were was fawkes why didnt he come to DD's aid and swallow the curse or whatever?I was expecting fawkes to bring dumbledore to life.

Also maybe this was part of dd's plan to lure voldy into a false sense of security.

CAN ANYONE ANSWER THESE QUESTIONS THAT ARE CONFUSING ME?

What is perhaps not coincidental about Dumbledore's death is that he had only just finished telling Draco M. that "they won't look for you if you're dead" and saying that OOTP could hide him -- but the implication is that first they would so thoroughly fake his death that Lord V wouldn't suspect a thing.

Well. . . .

And, who else could modify a curse but Snape. And reaons for doing this: Save Draco, Save Dumdledore (to allow him to proceed undetected and unsuspected), and Keep any suspicions about his (Snape's) loyalties at bay.

I agree that the arguement between Snape and Dumbledore was that Snape was finding his role too difficult and too distasteful. It must take a tremendous amount of courage -- and that is why he blew up at Harry (the irony must have been infuriating.) Plus the descriptions of Snape are a little too over the top -- greasy hair, yellow teeth. . . Come on. . .

I think that Dumbledore's death maybe quite similar to Gandalf's in Lord of the Rings. When Gandalf died he came back for one last chance to help Frodo destroy the ring. Dumbledore's portrait in his office may still help harry to find the horcruxes (im not sure how).

I have many different theories to why this death has occured, and many of them have been posted, so i will re-read the book to see if i have missed anything. I am still hoping that Dumbledore is out there even though it looks like he is not coming back as they buried him.

I just want to point out that on the jacket of the british child version there are to pictures of the unbreakable vow, is it possible that one is Narcissa and Snape and the other Snape and Dumbledore?

I just want to add that i have read posts where some1 has sed 'but Snape's face was described as full of hatred' this is because for the curse to work you have to really feel anger.

the death of DD was indead sad, but the fact still lays that the books are about harry, not DD.... so i dont understand its sad but it shouldnt be a damper on the books and how good the 7th will be.... its a basic principle, if you kill off a character that is vital and important and who is impt. to a character like harry, you'll just push and drive harry to succeed.... much like in star wars how Obi let Darth kill him in front of luke, to ensure that luke will want to defeat darth... same basic principles

harry is more clever then some give him credit for.... he alone has worked out many things without having any teachers or DD convinced.. such as HP&SS and HP&CoS...... each time he (and ron and hermione) has figured out clues that adult wizards and witches could not... so i dont think trying to figure out where the DL's remaining soul shreads are at will be an enormous problem (difficult but not impossible)

with DD gone it is basically a rite of passage for harry... he is no longer a child under the protection of DD.... he is the only one who can make the big difference now (which im sure DD knew)

i feel Snape was bound by a promise he gave to DD to do what he did.. the look of hatred he gave was a hatred of forcing him to kill him.... as posted above, Snape didnt harm harry and prevented others from harming him..... he was also spouting advise even if it sounded like criticism....... when harry called him a coward it was a personal blow to Snape when Harry doesnt realize what Snape was forced to do (this is of course if snape was following DD's orders)

MOD Edit: Slight netspeak detected. "u" should be "you". Your post has been edited.

Guys


I dont get one thing ... Why you guys saying that Harry is relying on Dumbledore... There is not a single mention in the book where it says that Harry wanted help from DUmbledore to fight his battle... Dumbledore is filling his duties. Because there were mistakes done by him and Harry is his favorite student of all.

Harry Is fighting his battle alone... so there are chances of Dubledore coming BACK

Remember when DD told Harry that he will be the one to drink the potion in the basin in order to get the locket but then Harry was against it for it could probably poison him in which DD replied that Voldemort would not want to "IMMEDIATELY" kill the person who reached the island for him to find out how they managed to penetrate so far through his defenses and why they were so intent upon emptying the basin. Therefore, Dumbledore knew that he's going to die soon enough after drinking the potion and told Snape to kill him instead with the killing curse so that Harry won't feel responsible for letting DD drink the potion which will ultimately cause his death.

definitely some very interesting posts in this thread. i happen to believe that snape is still good and that dumbledore had instructed snape to kill him for some reason.

i agree completely with whoever said that snape overeacted when harry called him a coward because he had just done one of the hardest things he's ever done in killing dumbledore.

but, my theory has flaws... for instance, i don't think snape would have been able to kill dumbledore using avada kadavra unless he really hated him because of what bella said in OotP about having to mean it when you use an unforgivable curse.

hmm... im kinda confused right now...

Has anyone thought that maybe Dumbledore knew that snape was a double agent? and that he actually planed this or maybe snape did it on purpose on DD's order. Because he says before he dies to malfoy that he could make it look as though he died and that the dark lord wouldnt think diff. So how come it couldn't have been all an act? that purhaps this was to get the dark lord to think he was gone to let him search for teh horcruxs and to help snape get closer to the dark lord? Maybe it was all planed out. Also snape never attacked harry. He could have just thrown anyold spell to stop him but just parried his attacks, he even told that he was that dark lords not to mean that they couldn't even just hurt him. I feel that even if snape really did kill DD that he only did for himself and not for the dark lord. just pondering.

I agree on the theory about Dumbledore being a sort of animigus or some sort. Because he's so into phoenix, the order is even called the Order of the Phoenix, he's got fawkes, his patronus, and aat his funeral the body of Dumbledore was said to burst into flames, just as a dead phonix, and is says: Harry sworn to see a phoenix rising to the blue or some sort.

Dumbledore cant be dead. Harry cant have left Hogwarts. It just doesn't fit.

hei

I really like the phoenix teori - hope it will happen, but don't think so...
I just hope he can get back in any way, I really cried for a long, long time - was crushed.

Some of you say he wouldn't pretend to be death in front of Harry - it would do no good - but wouldn't it be wisest not to tell him?



I mean, It gives harry the anger to just consentrate on the phoenix, and really, really hate Voldo. he could have died to make Voldo more sure of himself, and therefore not be carefull. And since Voldo is good at Legimensi, and if Harry knew he migth find out, cause lets face it - Harry stinks at Occlumensi.

Don't think it is like that but hope so much.

Dumbledore was my favorite character, so hope he come back

Really hate snape now. don't know excaktly if he is evil or good, but right now I think he is evil, because it is nice to have someone to blame... other than voldemort of course!