EliasOsiris
Nov 13 2008, 12:16 AM
I kind of doubt the centaurs did any physical damage to Umbridge.
QUOTE
Her usually neat mousy hair was very untidy and there were bits of twigs and leaf in it, but otherwise she seemed to be quite unscathed.
Seems to me if the centaurs physically attacked her, her clothes would have suffered as well. Centaurs don't use magic so they couldn't have repaired her clothes, and they certainly wouldn't have done it by hand. Dumbledore could have fixed up her clothes but then why would he leave her hair, which as noted was usually neat, all mussed up? Also, I can't believe that Dumbledore would have condoned the centaurs use of rape or torture, regardless of what Umbridge might have done or said. I'm guessing that if they had, he would have been furious and it would have shown when he and Delores left the forest. Madam Pomfrey didn't seem especially concerned - and she's a Healer. Irrespective of her personal feelings about Umbridge, she wouldn't let the old battle-axe suffer when she could do something.
Nope, my guess is that Delores got the fright of her life being unarmed and wandless amongst a band of "filthy half-breeds". Being someone who craves power and control, it must have been a very humiliating and terrifying experience.
acidpop
Dec 31 2008, 09:34 PM
I think that centaurs probably look at witches/wizards like Umbridge as scum. I don't think they would have an interest in raping her. That would justify her beliefs that they're beasts too. I think they probably just took her prisoner and showed her that they are intelligent creatures. By the time DD found her, I sure the centaurs were happy to have her out of their midst.
Nicky
Jan 1 2009, 11:42 PM
I think they just held her hostage before deciding what to do with her. By the time that they figured out what to do, Dumbledore showed up. And I 100% doubt that they raped her. acidpop is right, that would just justify her beliefs that they are beasts. They were not against killing Harry and Hermione only because they intruded upon their land more than once in Harry's view, but raping someone so vile? No.
HarryLFCfan
Jan 2 2009, 05:20 AM
There have always been very subtle hints in the text about witches and wizards indulging in activities that could not be discussed in more details owing to the target audience in mind for the books. We have more enjoyable and comic instances like Aberforth's "inappropriate charms" on a goat. hilarious that one, Ron's swearing and the "rude hand gesture(s)" during the world cup, in the Weasley twins' joke shop and on the Hogwarts express, Fleur Delacour and Roger Davis disappearing behind the bushes to something more ghastly and serious as Greyback wanting to "play" with Hermione and Bellatrix who 'likes to play around with her food".
I suppose these points are all left to the readers' imagination to fill in the gaps as they feel appropriate. Umbridge with centaurs seems to be another one of those. While it is an open question what happened to her there, something that DID leave an impact on her, inferred from her state in the hospital wing and her reaction to imitated trotting noises, and scurrying away in fright from Firenze at Dumbledore's funeral, but being the vile evil person she is, she got over it pretty soon as was evident in the last book when she showed no lingering after effects when reintroduced as the head of the muggle born registration commission. But I do feel that the best punishment for her would not have been Azkaban prison but to be handed over to the centaurs and they would have taken it from there ;-)
Eisa
Jan 3 2009, 07:12 AM
Actually, considering how the HP books were morphing more into YA books, she probably could have put the subject of rape in the books if she wanted to, depending on how she handled the subject and how detailed it was. I mean, it's not like she shied away from murder and torture, e.g. Avada Kedavra and the Cruciatus Curse. Rape just isn't magical.
I have no idea whether Umbridge was or not--it's true no one will unless JKR reveals what happened--but it's definitely true that some of the behaviors she exhibits would match up with a rape victim. Or at least the victim of some serious trauma. Whatever happened with the centaurs, it is obvious that it was highly traumatic to Umbridge.
HarryLFCfan
Jan 4 2009, 10:12 AM
QUOTE
Actually, considering how the HP books were morphing more into YA books, she probably could have put the subject of rape in the books if she wanted to
Very unlikely that her editors would have allowed her to do so, they didn't even permit her to allow Ron swear!!!. Plus then they would have had to include parental advisories and that would have led to all sorts of legal ramifications not to mention a substantial hit in the books sales after all a substantial number of readers were juveniles. Somehow murder and torture is not deemed to offensive in media unless described in graphic terms and lots of G-rated fantasy movies and superhero animations have enough references to those. But rape is a different issue altogether, it brings in the whole sexual connotation which many parents still find it hard to discuss with kids never mind the "talk"
She does exhibit symptoms associated with serious trauma, hilarious stuff that she would have seen there as you suggested of a rape victim but it is fun to imagine perhaps the centaurs made her dance singing "I am the senior undersecretary..." and don't forget that Grawp chased after centaurs too so and I wonder if somehow he too is associated with her trauma ... the events are too ghastly to imagine ;-)
mugglelovrspew
Jan 6 2009, 07:08 PM
Okay, I had to go back and read from the beginning because I was too confused on what the whole discussion was about. I agree with most of you. J.K.R. would probably not have put that in her books, but then again like HarryLFCfan said, there were things that she put in that we have to "use our own imagination" to come up with what she meant, in a way. Since younger audiences read these books, she can't talk directly about some things, so she puts them in context. I'm positive kids hear worse things at school, like someone had said, and it wouldn't really matter. But JKR is supposed to be a role model and is to some people, so if she put that in her books, knowing younger kids read it, then that would lead a whole new problem. Anyway........
I'm sure JKR did research about Centaurs, and knew this. She probably just didn't intend it to be what we thought of at first thought, unless we actually did the research. I find it diffucult to imagine her putting that into her books. Maybe other stuff, but that just seems way to....weird. I really don't know. This is just my opinion.
I think they probably just took her into the woods and maybe tossed her around a little. She was probably fearing for her life, but I don't think they would of gotten to do much harm to her before DD came.
acidpop
Jan 6 2009, 11:04 PM
If you think about it, implying that they would rape Umbridge is really insulting to the centaurs. How would you feel if you kept a disgusting person hostage after they invaded your territory and people thought you'd stoop so low as to rape them?
Of course Umbridge was traumatized. She had just been trapped with something the hated the most, a half human. She had to relinquish control to something she hated. Obviously she got over it though. Probably because she's only half human.
sockr24
Feb 22 2009, 02:23 PM
it could be left vague for the reader to interpret in their own way. but i doubt the centaurs would of done anything sexual to her. they were probably only holding her prisoner. possibly tied up in a tree or something.
Harry POtter obsessed
Feb 22 2009, 11:41 PM
i dont think they would rape a crazy ugly person like that....................... i mean they are centaurs...........they are most likely toutring her and trying to get info maybe.....................i guess we shal never know but we can guess
smelliarmus
Mar 8 2009, 10:40 AM
Well its unlikely wen you consider what Hp centaurs are like, but J.K certainly puts in things like this that only adults would understand. it wouldn't matter as young children wouldn't get unless it was explained to them and by the time there old enough to get it they would already have been introduced to it so no harm done.
Brigid
Jun 28 2009, 08:48 PM
My background in mythology is not particularly good, so I hadn't thought about that. I have the inclination to believe that wasn't on Rowling's mind. I think that the Centuars wanted to scare the life out of her. She had terrorized so many students and tortured them that she had a good scare coming. She needed a dose of her own medicine back,and I think we are meant to rejoice that she got it, but not in the form of rape.
marauderxforever
Jul 11 2009, 02:22 AM
I think that they just kept her prisoner, and scared her. Nothing of that sort. Maybe they were planning on making her hostage to get better rights and everything?
Lord Skinner
Aug 7 2009, 01:42 AM
The centaurs from the books dont act like the ones from myth. Since umbridge attacked them and insulted them. They probably traumatized her by carring her off and tormenting her. Since dumbledore is respected by many he would be the only one who could calm them down and retrieve her.
James Bond
Feb 6 2010, 05:39 PM
its possible I guess but, she didnt do it on purpose. For the part when veron said " effing" the series is getting darkers so you should expect darker language
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please
click here.