I think Hermione character was a little bit different to other books because she is started to do magic to help Ron to make the Quidditch Team, behavior inusual in her.
Adittionally I think she is more sensitive because she shows the feelings about Ron openly, but I didnīt like so much the fact that JKR are mixing the 4th movie with this book, emphasizing that kiss of Hermione and Krum in the movie (that doesnīt appear in the 4th book) and mentioning in 6th book that a real fact.
I understand this point affects mainly the relationship between her and Ron in HBP book, and I suppose JKR is trying to picture the teenage behavior with this inmature behavior of Ron overecting with that kiss stuff and Ginny accusations .....
What is your opinion about it?
Full Version: About Hermione In Hbp
Yes,Hermione didnt have any significant role to play in the plot of the book.Come to think of it ,neither did the other students.It was all about Harry,Dumbledore,Snape and Draco...but we can expect Hermione to be in her elements in the final book.
Hermione is the only solution to the problem of Harry's lack of ability. I HBP he is completely outclassed by Snapes skill (not boding well for book 7). During their time Hogwarts Snape was creating new potions and Dark Arts spells, James, Sirrius, Lupin and Pettigrew taught themselves animagus skills and created the Mauraders map. Of the present inmates only Hermione shows anything like the ability to match these feats only she doen't dare to. However the quidditch trials incident does show that this may be changing. Also consider the level of magical Ability Dumbledore was required to show in the cave, with 4 more H's left to deal with who is going to do this when the time comes? I don't think anybody will come back from the dead. No as always the doing is Harry's job working out what and how will be Hermione! That will be her role in book 7
| QUOTE (MrLupin @ Jul 23 2005, 08:12 AM) |
| Yes,Hermione didnt have any significant role to play in the plot of the book.Come to think of it ,neither did the other students.It was all about Harry,Dumbledore,Snape and Draco...but we can expect Hermione to be in her elements in the final book. |
I think Hermoine will be entirely in her element in Book 7. She's got a history of being the sleuth of the 3 (Harry, Ron, Hermoine) and has an uncanny knack of solving puzzles. I believe the crux of Book 7 will be:
Primary Goal: Showdown/elimination of Voldemort
Dependent Goals: Finding and destroying the remaining horcruxes so that when Harry does face Voldemort, he'll simply be a mortal wizard.
Underlying Storylines:
Hermoine/Ron relationship
Resolution/probable redemption of Draco and Snape
Who was Lily Evans?
What really happened the night Voldemort attacked Harry and why?
I really liked Hermione in this book. she's grown up and become more confident.
She finally showed feelings for Ron and helping him made Keeper shows that she isn't that Percy-ish. She broke rules in order to make Ron happy.
I also loved it when she made those birds attack Ron.. he he
She finally showed feelings for Ron and helping him made Keeper shows that she isn't that Percy-ish. She broke rules in order to make Ron happy.
I also loved it when she made those birds attack Ron.. he he
Hmm..Hermione's character. Well, I, for one, am obsessed with Hermione, and was a bit disappointed at how she was played in HBP.
Of course, she was more advanced in magic and such..but she acted a bit more...'girly', I guess is the right word.
But then again, she was 17 (yes, for people who don't know, she's a year older than everyone else). I thought that she was actually more mature in the second book. In this one, she was way too flirty, for me, and the only time I saw her being the Hermione she was, is when she was talking about the HBP.
I'm glad that she was more loose about the rules though.
Of course, she was more advanced in magic and such..but she acted a bit more...'girly', I guess is the right word.
But then again, she was 17 (yes, for people who don't know, she's a year older than everyone else). I thought that she was actually more mature in the second book. In this one, she was way too flirty, for me, and the only time I saw her being the Hermione she was, is when she was talking about the HBP.
I'm glad that she was more loose about the rules though.
I was also shocked when I read Hermiones character and her flirty-break-the-rules-ways but I kind of liked it..I mean they are growing up and its completely normal for them to be more in tune to their "feelings" I was a little dissapinted on a whole about character involvement..I thought we would see more of the DA than we did and I thought that more people would return..but that is a whole other discussion...I am hoping that Hermione will have more of a part in the seventh book as both her and Ron said they would go with Harry where ever he went..
I guess I was expecting all that Hermione went through to have happened a little earlier in the series. I realise that everyone had to grow up and get interested in romance and all of that, but she's 17. I'd have expected the silly-flirty behaviours to be STOPPING at this age, not starting.
She's always been a bit complex. Intellectually she's been a little too mature for her age but then I've always seen her to some extent as a girl playing dressups in someone's mother's clothes type- aka, a little girl who for whatever reason is placed with an older person situation. But she's generally always been likeable. I just found her silly in this one.
She's always been a bit complex. Intellectually she's been a little too mature for her age but then I've always seen her to some extent as a girl playing dressups in someone's mother's clothes type- aka, a little girl who for whatever reason is placed with an older person situation. But she's generally always been likeable. I just found her silly in this one.
i think throughout the past 6 books, Hermione has really relaxed and has become to understand friendship. Not that she didn't understand it to begin with, but she is very smart, but a little immature when it comes to person to person relationships. In that, she has grown. Which shows in her behavior toward Ron in HBP, she begins to actually act like a teenager not a teacher. Which for her, is a big step in accepting who she is and who her frinds are. Sort of embracing her youth, instead of trying to be the adult all the time. It was liberating to see her step back and for once, watch what was going on around her and think of her own feelings. I think her brains will always be important to the trio, but they are stronger when she supports them emotionaly. Well...I am rambling now about her. Never have been a huge Hermione fan, but she has grown on me over the years!
i actually thought she was quite annoying in this book.. dunno how to explain it really, but shes just starting to get on my nerves... i felt the same about harry actually in the order of the phoenix... spesh the beginning...
The roles of Hermione and Ginny seemed to serve the more light-hearted aspects of the book dealing with teenage love/infatuation. I think that JKR was trying to reintroduce some humor and human elements since "Order of the Phoenix" was so dark and the 7th book will undoubtedly be the darkest yet. I agree that all of the crucial plot elements of "Half-Blood Prince" were centered around Harry, Draco, Snape and Dumbledore.
However, I have to agree that Hermione will play a huge role in the seventh book. Her magical ability outstrips every other student at Hogwarts and rivals or exceeds most adult witches--including Death Eaters. Harry's main attributes are his "love" (pointed out to be so important by Dumbledore), his fierce loyalty to his friends, and an inner great magical power that has yet to be unleashed. Hermione will undoubtedly play a big role in helping Harry unlock this power so that he can ultimately face Voldemort. We see a degree of the power that Harry can achieve in "The Prisoner of Azkaban" when he casts the Patronus Charm to chase away an entire group of Dementors--Hermione herself commented that only a very powerful wizard would have been able to do that.
Although Harry is an above average student, it is Hermione who is exceedingly brilliant and has the ability to read what is in a textbook and bring it into actual practice. Anyone who has ever been to college knows just how difficult it is. Undoubtedly, new spells will be needed to help with the fight against Voldemort and Hermione is just the person to do the research and provide the individual tutelage to Harry to make sure that he can perform them to the best of his ability. Once Harry learns the principles behind casting a particular spell, I believe he has much more shear power than any other wizard.
Also, I think that Hermione will be very important in locating at least some of the Horcruxes. Although, I believe that the location of the final Horcruxes will probably be revealed by Snape--which is why I believed that he agreed to kill Dumbledore (please read my posts in "Who Did Snape Really Betray") and deep undercover.
I think it is obvious that Hermione will play a critical role. I wonder what Ron will do, however.
However, I have to agree that Hermione will play a huge role in the seventh book. Her magical ability outstrips every other student at Hogwarts and rivals or exceeds most adult witches--including Death Eaters. Harry's main attributes are his "love" (pointed out to be so important by Dumbledore), his fierce loyalty to his friends, and an inner great magical power that has yet to be unleashed. Hermione will undoubtedly play a big role in helping Harry unlock this power so that he can ultimately face Voldemort. We see a degree of the power that Harry can achieve in "The Prisoner of Azkaban" when he casts the Patronus Charm to chase away an entire group of Dementors--Hermione herself commented that only a very powerful wizard would have been able to do that.
Although Harry is an above average student, it is Hermione who is exceedingly brilliant and has the ability to read what is in a textbook and bring it into actual practice. Anyone who has ever been to college knows just how difficult it is. Undoubtedly, new spells will be needed to help with the fight against Voldemort and Hermione is just the person to do the research and provide the individual tutelage to Harry to make sure that he can perform them to the best of his ability. Once Harry learns the principles behind casting a particular spell, I believe he has much more shear power than any other wizard.
Also, I think that Hermione will be very important in locating at least some of the Horcruxes. Although, I believe that the location of the final Horcruxes will probably be revealed by Snape--which is why I believed that he agreed to kill Dumbledore (please read my posts in "Who Did Snape Really Betray") and deep undercover.
I think it is obvious that Hermione will play a critical role. I wonder what Ron will do, however.
Snape lover states:
"Hermione is the only solution to the problem of Harry's lack of ability. In HBP he is completely outclassed by Snapes skill (not boding well for book 7)."
Not completely true -- in the first DADA class, Harry floors Snape with the shield charm. This is the first time that Snape sees Harry's strength as a wizard (My favorite scene in the book.) I was disappointed this was not carried further in the book.
Keep in mind that in the world of JKR, there is a lot more to magic than Snape (or Voldemort) envision. Harry has always been very accomplished in these 'non-traditional' areas of magic (Love, courage, and determination.)
"Hermione is the only solution to the problem of Harry's lack of ability. In HBP he is completely outclassed by Snapes skill (not boding well for book 7)."
Not completely true -- in the first DADA class, Harry floors Snape with the shield charm. This is the first time that Snape sees Harry's strength as a wizard (My favorite scene in the book.) I was disappointed this was not carried further in the book.
Keep in mind that in the world of JKR, there is a lot more to magic than Snape (or Voldemort) envision. Harry has always been very accomplished in these 'non-traditional' areas of magic (Love, courage, and determination.)
I think Hermione acted the way she did because she was ready for Ron. She already had the first-crush-middle-school-like relationship with Krum, she's moved on with that part of herself. She was ready for love, the can't sleep at night, confusing, love beyond reason, love. And with Ron, because she's felt this way for years. But Ron wasn't ready. Love makes you do the wacky, Hermione was just caught up in it.
i did not really like the way Hermione was written at all. It seemed to lack the usual depth of character or something. i don't know exactly what was missing, but something was.
Of course Hermione muct play a huge role in the next book, becasue lets face it, Harry is an just average wizard, except perhaps in Defence against the Dark Arts, and who knows how he is is going in that subject, as there was not alot written about it in HBP, and i can't imagine that having snape as a teacher would be motivating or encouraging. So in saying that, Hermione, who is definetly an above average student, will be relied upon to make the clever connections, and perform the harder spells and charms... and knowing her character ,she will also be there to protect HArry andRon from hasty decisions and inform them of possible consequences.
Of course Hermione muct play a huge role in the next book, becasue lets face it, Harry is an just average wizard, except perhaps in Defence against the Dark Arts, and who knows how he is is going in that subject, as there was not alot written about it in HBP, and i can't imagine that having snape as a teacher would be motivating or encouraging. So in saying that, Hermione, who is definetly an above average student, will be relied upon to make the clever connections, and perform the harder spells and charms... and knowing her character ,she will also be there to protect HArry andRon from hasty decisions and inform them of possible consequences.
I wasn't a Hermione fan at first, when I read the first book, but she has been growing on me adn now I think she is really cool. The fact that she is now having...I will call them emotioneal issues... is really good because it makes her seem like any other girl. And she is in LoVe.
Though I liked this book very much, I don't think Hermione's full character or potential was present. Usually, there's more insight into her brainy character because in the other books, there's a 'Scooby Doo' approach in which they are trying to solve a mystery or fight crime or whatever where she can put her brains to good use. In this book, they are basically just average teens, doing average things. Neither Ron or Hermione are really involved in 'fighting evil' this time. Hermione doesn't strike me as an average teen, so to put her in a situation where all she can do is act normally... is really weird and out of character for her. You always see her going the extra mile in everything she does, and in this book she's struggling with potions?? She's not even doing any extra cirricular activities! I dunno, I think it's just weird.
MOD EDIT: Howdy! Just a reminder, personal abbreviations are not allowed on VTM (w/e should be whatever) They make posts harder to read for everyone else. Please review the rules. Thanks, Mason.
MOD EDIT: Howdy! Just a reminder, personal abbreviations are not allowed on VTM (w/e should be whatever) They make posts harder to read for everyone else. Please review the rules. Thanks, Mason.
I personally was extremely disappointed in Hermione's character throughout HBP. In truth, she reminded me more of 'makeover Hermione' that you read in fanfic than 'canon Hermione' of the first five books.
Like Ginny (who I've ranted about in her thread
), Hermione seemed like way too much of a flirt in this book, and she seemed waaaay too interested in her relationship with Ron. I know that the going out with other guys to make Ron jealous isn't a new thing -- McLaggen and Krum were pretty similar cases -- but here she's openly admitting to Harry that she's got these *feelings* and she's purposely annoying Ron. In GoF, I found it sort of sweet the way she was going out with Krum to make Ron jealous because I think it was more subconscious at the time. But in HBP, her intentions with McLaggen are so blatant... it's pretty frightening to see the female protagonist of the series go this route. I also found her 'canary attack' vaguely pathetic. Honestly, it's ridiculous that she's resorting to such desperate means of attracting the guy's attention.
Furthermore, where has her social conscience gone?! I loved that sub-plot that was developing with SPEW and all, and it seems to have completely fallen by the wayside. One of the aspects of Hermione's personality that I always admired the most was that she did not allow herself to be distracted from causes that were important to her (schoolwork, house elves, etc.), and here she is, totally abandoning Winky in favor of putting in dramatic, pseudo-lover appearances in the Gryffindor common room whenever 'Won-Won' is having... er... interactions, shall we say, with Lavender. She seems determined to divert Ron's attention from his girlfriend with her theatrics... it's really quite shameful, in my opinion. (Hah.. I'm off the social conscience and onto her relationship with Ron again. It seems that's the thing that's bothering me most about her character in this book... which is scary, since I once counted myself among the R/Hr shippers.)
Now, I've heard people argue that 'she's seventeen, she's reacting to her first true love,' but I'm seventeen, too, and woe betide me if I ever find myself pining for a guy the way Hermione so obviously pines for Ron in HBP! I felt embarrassed on her behalf.
Like Ginny (who I've ranted about in her thread
), Hermione seemed like way too much of a flirt in this book, and she seemed waaaay too interested in her relationship with Ron. I know that the going out with other guys to make Ron jealous isn't a new thing -- McLaggen and Krum were pretty similar cases -- but here she's openly admitting to Harry that she's got these *feelings* and she's purposely annoying Ron. In GoF, I found it sort of sweet the way she was going out with Krum to make Ron jealous because I think it was more subconscious at the time. But in HBP, her intentions with McLaggen are so blatant... it's pretty frightening to see the female protagonist of the series go this route. I also found her 'canary attack' vaguely pathetic. Honestly, it's ridiculous that she's resorting to such desperate means of attracting the guy's attention.Furthermore, where has her social conscience gone?! I loved that sub-plot that was developing with SPEW and all, and it seems to have completely fallen by the wayside. One of the aspects of Hermione's personality that I always admired the most was that she did not allow herself to be distracted from causes that were important to her (schoolwork, house elves, etc.), and here she is, totally abandoning Winky in favor of putting in dramatic, pseudo-lover appearances in the Gryffindor common room whenever 'Won-Won' is having... er... interactions, shall we say, with Lavender. She seems determined to divert Ron's attention from his girlfriend with her theatrics... it's really quite shameful, in my opinion. (Hah.. I'm off the social conscience and onto her relationship with Ron again. It seems that's the thing that's bothering me most about her character in this book... which is scary, since I once counted myself among the R/Hr shippers.)
Now, I've heard people argue that 'she's seventeen, she's reacting to her first true love,' but I'm seventeen, too, and woe betide me if I ever find myself pining for a guy the way Hermione so obviously pines for Ron in HBP! I felt embarrassed on her behalf.
I don't know, but I really liked Hermione in this book. I think it showed a completely different side of her. It portrayed her as a young woman and not a little girl, or just one of the guys (as her best friends are both guys). I also feel it showed her as having more confidence in her abilities and skills and most importanly, she knew what she wanted (being Ron) and went after it.
hermione is behaving differently by helping ron at quidditch trials and when ron went out with lavender hermione always made fun of him and then she went to that party with cormac mclaggen i think she isnt changing shes just starting to show that she likes ron more openly i think thats why she was behaving differently she was jealous or showing affection
Well, as you can tell, I am a huge fan of Hermione. I love her to pieces. She is intelligent, fun, and has a nurturuing caring side. As for ner in this book, I thought she was brilliant. She stayed in character the whole book, especially when the topic of the HBP came up. She went to the library as much as before. As for her helping Ron, and acting jealous and all that, she is in love, she only wants to help him out a little (and I would too) and when she saw Ron and Lavender snogging, I guess it was only natural that she was jealous and attacked him (with birds that came out of thin air, that no one else could do at the time, mind you)
Well, to be honest I really loved hermione in this book. Before the HBP she really anoyed me, ( in OOTP when she was constantly nagging harry, that was a no-no 
, but it might also have to do with the movies)
And there she was in HBP, more matured, emotional , and she didn't irritate harry as much as before. To be smart is timeless, but to show your true emotions, well that's what I call maturing
, but it might also have to do with the movies)And there she was in HBP, more matured, emotional , and she didn't irritate harry as much as before. To be smart is timeless, but to show your true emotions, well that's what I call maturing
Well, I guess I understand where she's coming from in this book, but as for maturing... I doubt that. Yeah, she's in love, but honestly, she's acting like a little kid about it in my opinion. Who attacks the person they love with canaries? Also, it's not like she owns Ron, she doesn't have dibs on him, he can do what he wants. Yeah, she's obviously upset but that's no way to treat someone. Frankly, I wasn't too happy with her in this book. She's always been an upstanding, independant female, and now, all of a sudden, she's clutching onto guy's arms and begging for their attention? She's not being true to herself or original character. I'm sorry all you Hermione fans out there. I know I'm being harsh, but this is just my opinion. She could have acted better in this book.
Here is something that has annoyed me since i read HBP~
In COS Hermoine made the Polyjuice potion. Then in HBP when Slughorn was showing them all those potions on the first day of class he said those were the potions they could expect on their N.E.W.T.S. The polyjuice potion was one of those.
So when they made their first potion, how come Hermoine's wasn't perfect. If she could pull of a harder potion in her second year why couldnt she do the Draught of Living Death her sixth year. Maybe i'm just crazy, but that really annoyed me! It's like JKR dumbed down Hermoine!
In COS Hermoine made the Polyjuice potion. Then in HBP when Slughorn was showing them all those potions on the first day of class he said those were the potions they could expect on their N.E.W.T.S. The polyjuice potion was one of those.
So when they made their first potion, how come Hermoine's wasn't perfect. If she could pull of a harder potion in her second year why couldnt she do the Draught of Living Death her sixth year. Maybe i'm just crazy, but that really annoyed me! It's like JKR dumbed down Hermoine!
I have to be honest, while I thought Hermione behaved very differently in HBP, I think there were good reasons.
First off, Hermione is 17 and therefore is not going to be the same person she was at 12/13/14. People change as they get older. Not only that but she went through alot at the end of OotP. She nearly died and she faced the Death Eaters (a first for everyone except Harry don't forget). Sirius also died that night in the MoM, and while Hermione may not have been as close to him as Harry, she helped him escape in PoA and had stayed with him during the summer and christmas of OotP so it is highly plausible that she was upset by his death (as seen in her attempts to talk about him and the fact that Hermione is a warm, caring person whom such a death would affect). Big events like this change people (I'm 24 and I'm a completely different person to the one I was this time last year because of events in my life).
Secondly, her behavior around Ron was different to the other books because she had changed. I imagine the death of someone she knew (and not just the death of a person she has heard about but doesn't know) would make Hermione more aware of the possibility that life can end suddenly, and so prompt her to be braver with regard to her feelings for Ron. We can see this in the scene in which she finally asks him out, she's red faced and nervous but still asks Ron to the party. We can see it was hard to do but the point is she still does it! Is it any wonder that when Ron throws it back in her face by snogging Lavender, Hermione reacts with all the anger, frustration and pain (the canaries incident) of someone who has just been hurt by someone that she cares about and has bared her feelings to? Hermione finally dared to express her feelings to Ron and what does he do? Accepts her invitation to the party and then starts to treat her coldly before finally snogging someone else! Frankly, I'm surprised that people would express surprise that Hermione attacked Ron with canaries after all this.
Ever heard the expression; 'Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned'?
Thirdly, Hermione's aid to Ron at the Quidditch match was hardly surprising. Hermione has broke rules before. In PS, she disobeyed a teacher by helping Harry to get through the trap door beneath fluffy. In CoS, she stole Boomslang Skin from Snape and illigally brewed the Polyjuice potion. In PoA, she smacked Malfoy into the face, walked out of Trewlany's class, used a hex on Snape in the shrieking shack and used her Ministry timetuner to help free a man the ministry believed to be a murderer. In GoF, she helped Harry with his tasks for the Triwizard despite the fact that he was supposed to do them himself. In OotP, she had the idea and helped start the DA (an organisation illigal within the school at the time), helped Harry to break into Umbridges office and left the school to go to the Ministry. Hermione breaks rules when she sees that it would be wrong to do nothing. McGlaggen is an ass and a horrible person who said nasty things about Ron and Hermione. She sees that he is someone who would be bad for the Gryffindor Quidditch team and therefore acts to prevent his appointment to the team. Hermione has broken rules for Harry before. Why then is it so 'shocking' and 'out of character' when she does so for Ron?
One thing I have noticed on the Forums is that there have been many complaints about the evolving nature of Hermione's character, there were relatively few about Dumbledore's. Dumbledore allows himself to become less remote to Harry and personally delves into Voldemort's background with him (a first for Dumbledore). Dumbledore loses patience with Harry several times in HBP, something he had not even done when Harry destroyed his office in OotP. Dumbledore takes Harry with him to find the Horcrux (previously having kept Harry out of such things). I also noticed that there were relatively few complaints about Harry and Sirius's 'out of character' behaviour in OotP.
Characters change and evolve. Like real people, they develop as they grow or else they would stagnate. Also, people are unpredictable and will behave differently from time to time (look at Barty Crouch, the man who gave his son to the Dementors only to then 'spring' him from prison!). Is it really so surprising that Hermione would act differently from time to time as so many other characters have done? Just wondering.
First off, Hermione is 17 and therefore is not going to be the same person she was at 12/13/14. People change as they get older. Not only that but she went through alot at the end of OotP. She nearly died and she faced the Death Eaters (a first for everyone except Harry don't forget). Sirius also died that night in the MoM, and while Hermione may not have been as close to him as Harry, she helped him escape in PoA and had stayed with him during the summer and christmas of OotP so it is highly plausible that she was upset by his death (as seen in her attempts to talk about him and the fact that Hermione is a warm, caring person whom such a death would affect). Big events like this change people (I'm 24 and I'm a completely different person to the one I was this time last year because of events in my life).
Secondly, her behavior around Ron was different to the other books because she had changed. I imagine the death of someone she knew (and not just the death of a person she has heard about but doesn't know) would make Hermione more aware of the possibility that life can end suddenly, and so prompt her to be braver with regard to her feelings for Ron. We can see this in the scene in which she finally asks him out, she's red faced and nervous but still asks Ron to the party. We can see it was hard to do but the point is she still does it! Is it any wonder that when Ron throws it back in her face by snogging Lavender, Hermione reacts with all the anger, frustration and pain (the canaries incident) of someone who has just been hurt by someone that she cares about and has bared her feelings to? Hermione finally dared to express her feelings to Ron and what does he do? Accepts her invitation to the party and then starts to treat her coldly before finally snogging someone else! Frankly, I'm surprised that people would express surprise that Hermione attacked Ron with canaries after all this.
Ever heard the expression; 'Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned'? Thirdly, Hermione's aid to Ron at the Quidditch match was hardly surprising. Hermione has broke rules before. In PS, she disobeyed a teacher by helping Harry to get through the trap door beneath fluffy. In CoS, she stole Boomslang Skin from Snape and illigally brewed the Polyjuice potion. In PoA, she smacked Malfoy into the face, walked out of Trewlany's class, used a hex on Snape in the shrieking shack and used her Ministry timetuner to help free a man the ministry believed to be a murderer. In GoF, she helped Harry with his tasks for the Triwizard despite the fact that he was supposed to do them himself. In OotP, she had the idea and helped start the DA (an organisation illigal within the school at the time), helped Harry to break into Umbridges office and left the school to go to the Ministry. Hermione breaks rules when she sees that it would be wrong to do nothing. McGlaggen is an ass and a horrible person who said nasty things about Ron and Hermione. She sees that he is someone who would be bad for the Gryffindor Quidditch team and therefore acts to prevent his appointment to the team. Hermione has broken rules for Harry before. Why then is it so 'shocking' and 'out of character' when she does so for Ron?
One thing I have noticed on the Forums is that there have been many complaints about the evolving nature of Hermione's character, there were relatively few about Dumbledore's. Dumbledore allows himself to become less remote to Harry and personally delves into Voldemort's background with him (a first for Dumbledore). Dumbledore loses patience with Harry several times in HBP, something he had not even done when Harry destroyed his office in OotP. Dumbledore takes Harry with him to find the Horcrux (previously having kept Harry out of such things). I also noticed that there were relatively few complaints about Harry and Sirius's 'out of character' behaviour in OotP.
Characters change and evolve. Like real people, they develop as they grow or else they would stagnate. Also, people are unpredictable and will behave differently from time to time (look at Barty Crouch, the man who gave his son to the Dementors only to then 'spring' him from prison!). Is it really so surprising that Hermione would act differently from time to time as so many other characters have done? Just wondering.
i also agree that hermione hasn't been the hermione i fell in love with in the first two books. in the third one she shows more courage than cleverness and in the fourth one she shows too much love emotion and not enough wit. in the fifith book, however, she begins to show herself again but in the sixth book she becomes all lovey duvey again. i think she need to come back to character in her fast thinking and extreme cleverness to help harry. her relationship with ron is disrupting the hermione i want to see. so i hope she goes back to being her old self. as for her not playing a major role, i believe that it was because jk was trying to direct the attention soley on snape's betrayal and how harry loses another loved one. her role as a primary player will come back now that all the pieces have been layed out, in fact i bet she is the one who figures out snape's real allegiance and how to find the horcruxes and how to destroy them.
Nice post on the matter Allie.
I agree that Hermione is a disappointment in HBP. She's no longer smart, quick-witted, interesting, determined, active, assertive or much of anything really. She's neither active nor courageous and her talent, sense of social justice and cool-headed competency seemed to have vanished like morning dew. The second she 'falls in love' she's marginalised in the text and barely contributes to the central plot. She has no interests, which in turn made it extremely difficult to take an interest in her. She does and says little of note or real interest. In between sobbing or plotting vengeance, she has as much spice, flavour and originality as something you'd hastily purchase from the 'golden arches'. I felt as if she was soundly slapped up side the head with the classic 'McGirl' treatment and left to flounder. I fail to see how that qualifies as a 'development'.
Minister of Magic wrote:
I agree that Hermione is a disappointment in HBP. She's no longer smart, quick-witted, interesting, determined, active, assertive or much of anything really. She's neither active nor courageous and her talent, sense of social justice and cool-headed competency seemed to have vanished like morning dew. The second she 'falls in love' she's marginalised in the text and barely contributes to the central plot. She has no interests, which in turn made it extremely difficult to take an interest in her. She does and says little of note or real interest. In between sobbing or plotting vengeance, she has as much spice, flavour and originality as something you'd hastily purchase from the 'golden arches'. I felt as if she was soundly slapped up side the head with the classic 'McGirl' treatment and left to flounder. I fail to see how that qualifies as a 'development'.
Minister of Magic wrote:
| QUOTE |
| Well, I guess I understand where she's coming from in this book, but as for maturing... I doubt that. Yeah, she's in love, but honestly, she's acting like a little kid about it in my opinion. Who attacks the person they love with canaries? |
Hee! Love-as-insanity. And love-as-personality-excision.
I actually found her virtually unrecognisable and agree that her character was incredibly dumbed down (for the purpose of the plot I suspect.)
I think that what is interesting about Hermione's 'metamorphosis' is the different reactions that it elicits. My own objection is not that Hermione 'changes', but rather I question what or should I say who she changes into. Yes, change and development is inevitable - who, after all, is interested in reading about static, unchanging characters who fail to develop? I think that the issue for me though is that there are changes that follow the natural lines and contours of a character - and then changes which not only disrupt the original foundation of a character, but are so uncharacteristic (as to fall completely outside the delineated boundaries of the original character) that it stretches a (or at least, this) reader's credulity.
(As for the notion that Dumbledore's portrayal has not been criticised as inexplicable and out of character? Well, I've already mentioned it in other threads.)
At any rate, I guess I fall into the latter category. I was highly unconvinced by her portrayal.
Some view her new character as a legitimate process of maturation while others perceive it as a digression from the original character trajectory, or worse a regression. Change, imv, involves building upon established foundations - not a complete upheaval and disposal of the original character. Everyone has their own definition of maturity, and I must say, Hermione in HBP certainly didn't put me in mind of a maturing young woman. It was as if she had stumbled straight off the set of an episode of 90210, and I expected 'Brinda', "Ahndrea, Kelly, or Donna to be following at her heels.
I honestly find it odd that sexual and/or romantic awareness is unreflexively equated with 'maturity'. As far as I'm concerned the one does not necessarily entail the other - not at all. Kissing (or sex for that matter) doesn't suddenly transform you into an adult. Being wildly interested in the opposite sex or a particular guy, and having tremendous fits of jealousy is not an automatic rite of passage into womanhood (or manhood) or very indicative of emotional maturity.
I think that people would be surprised to discover that contrary to conventional wisdom, what was portrayed in HBP is not the typical experience of all teenagers, and that some teenagers develop quite nicely without it. There is this notion of normative (genderised) socialisation where everyone presumably goes through near identical experiences in terms of teenage relationships. But that is merely an assumption.
Many, but not all girls seem to go through a 'boy-crazy', or 'crush' phase usually between the ages of 12-14, giggling, bragging in the bathroom, inciting jealousy and all. Some grow out of it, while others never do.
I really felt that what we were seeing with Hermione was a jarring and highly ungraceful display of arrested development. I almost felt that because JK had been so reluctant to allow either Ron or Hermione to be even remotely sexual in the earlier stages of the series (which certainly did not escape critical comment as to how unrealistic and sanitised the kids were), that when the issue of romance and teenage sexuality finally and inevitably emerged - she compensated for her previous omission and went overboard with it.
I had hopes that since JK seemed to be delaying the central romances, that we would at least be treated to the unfolding of something remarkable.... She hadn't portrayed Hermione as an ordinary teenage girl for so much of the series that her sudden display of unimaginative 'averageness' didn't justify the suspense.
That was what we had been waiting for? To see that Hermione could out-Parvati Parvati in the stereotypical 'girl' stakes?
It was as if Hermione at 17, had backtracked, finally stumbled on to an imaginary notion of her 14-year old self and resumed her 'growth' from there. I really think that not only does she behave much younger than her years in HBP, but that she is uncharacteristically silly and shallow.
I have difficulty envisaging even a highly hormonal 14-year old Hermione going to those lengths and extremes simply to get a boy to notice her. I agree with all the posters who have noted that Hermione was far more mature in the earlier books. Her relationship and budding awareness of romance and physical attraction with Krum in TGoF is handled with far more grace and maturity than anything we see from her in HBP.
Yes, people change at the age of 17, but presumably they move forward into adulthood - they don't take an abrupt step back in time, overthrow all traces of developed personality and try to live out their (missed) early teens which is what I felt we were witnessing with Hermione.
Honestly, I really couldn't call her a 'woman' in HBP. And now for a more general observation....
The other thing that was well, frankly disturbing to me was the negative, dreary portrayal of what love actually is. I found Hermione's self-degradation and enduring misery in order to capture Ron's heart more than a little hard to swallow. Again, this probably comes down to differing notions as to the nature of love, but I'm not a masochist so I don't suscribe to the notion that 'love is pain' (sorry Jah Rule.)
Or at least, not deliberately inflicted and unecessary pain. It just made love seem so unattractive in the book. If 'love' is losing all sense of personality, purpose and identity? If it involves shrinking down the walls of your world rather than broadening your horizons; if it means taking leave of your senses rather than the heightening your senses? If it demands abandoning or subliminating your sense of self, rather than a discovery of who you are? If it entails getting lost in the maze of your own self-absorption instead of truly relating to a another human being? If it's entirely caught up in the act of posession with little notion of actual caring? When it is fixation rather than steadfastness?
Then yes. We can safely say that in HBP Hermione (and company) 'fell in love'.
Just as Hermione was presented without dimension, I felt that the portrayal of love in HBP was similarly flat, lifeless and impoverished. All of the colour, richness and complexity that love can contain was conspicuously absent. Yes, a brewing, reactionary pall of misery managed to envelope most of the characters, Hermione included. But where were the contrasts and texture? Where were the dizzying heights of emotion, the silent lows?
Where was the journey or the critical point of epiphany, of understanding, of revelation? The measures of joy and gladness, that align with heartache and sorrow? The sense of connection? Hermione aside for a second, I don't recall a single character having a genuinely introspective moment that evokes the sense of wonder involved with actually falling in love. No odd paradoxes of pleasure-pain, no delight, no thrill of twisting uncertainty, of anticpation or anxiety. Love without height, breadth and depth - what kind of love is that?
(It's ironic really that the Cho-Harry relationship would come closer to capturing these subtleties than anything we saw in HBP when that relationship was only a crush and a precursor to the 'real thing'.) So yes, I felt that Hermione along with the other characters was robbed of this rich experience in HBP and left the dregs.
There wasn't an iota of 'big' love to be found. Instead, it was a tale of one-dimensional, dreary 'crushing', game-playing and retaliation that didn't seem to make any of the characters happier, richer or wiser for the experience. The bubbles were clearly evident. It was teenage soap-opera with Hermione as dull, bushy-haired, manipulative teen soap-vixen and witch - a portrayal that neither impressed nor excited me. Unfortunately if you've ever watched any soaps you'd realise that none of the characters actually fall in love with each other in a soap. Instead they plot, scheme, manipulate, lie, back-stab, use, dispose, cheat, fall in lust, and 'get with' one another. Sure, that's high drama and entertainmnent perhaps, but it isn't love.
Westerly, as usual, I stand in awe at your ability to present an argument with such clarity and insight into the text. You have my utter and undying respect. I echo every single thing you said, which you said far better than I ever could have...
I think the major problem here is that Hermione's character was sidelined in order to thrust Ginny's into the limelight, and Jo simply hadn't built Ginny's character up enough to be able to make such a bold move plausible, which left a substantial portion on the fandom scratching their heads at the end of the book and wondering if perhaps they'd missed something along the way.
I won't mention any names here because he'd probably kill me for saying this in public, but I agree wholeheartedly with something he said with regard to this book - that Jo has basically thrown some meat to the wolves in this book with regard to the shipping. She's managed to sort out the major arguments about it in one fell swoop, silencing the debates once and for all in order, perhaps, to channel people's attention more into what really matters in these books - Harry's journey and his ultimate confrontation with Voldemort. I am desperately hoping that he was right - that with the shipping stuff out of the way, the final book can be everything that Jo has always promised it will be - a meaty, gripping and satisfying resolution to what will be in the end more than fifteen years of storytelling. And with that, I hope that we will see the characters returning to the whole, strong people they were before instead of the very flat, tedious, hormonally ravaged teenagers they seemed to have become in HBP. Hermione is strong, intelligent, rational and mature....please Jo, let us have her back in book seven.
Anyone else up for the 'Save Hermione' campaign?
You have my utter and undying respect. I echo every single thing you said, which you said far better than I ever could have...I think the major problem here is that Hermione's character was sidelined in order to thrust Ginny's into the limelight, and Jo simply hadn't built Ginny's character up enough to be able to make such a bold move plausible, which left a substantial portion on the fandom scratching their heads at the end of the book and wondering if perhaps they'd missed something along the way.
I won't mention any names here because he'd probably kill me for saying this in public, but I agree wholeheartedly with something he said with regard to this book - that Jo has basically thrown some meat to the wolves in this book with regard to the shipping. She's managed to sort out the major arguments about it in one fell swoop, silencing the debates once and for all in order, perhaps, to channel people's attention more into what really matters in these books - Harry's journey and his ultimate confrontation with Voldemort. I am desperately hoping that he was right - that with the shipping stuff out of the way, the final book can be everything that Jo has always promised it will be - a meaty, gripping and satisfying resolution to what will be in the end more than fifteen years of storytelling. And with that, I hope that we will see the characters returning to the whole, strong people they were before instead of the very flat, tedious, hormonally ravaged teenagers they seemed to have become in HBP. Hermione is strong, intelligent, rational and mature....please Jo, let us have her back in book seven.
Anyone else up for the 'Save Hermione' campaign?
Westerly, that's an excellent post and I do see where your coming from. However, I must point out that I'm not sure you've comprehended the differene in Hermione's personality in HBP. You said that;
| QUOTE |
| It was as if Hermione at 17, had backtracked, finally stumbled on to an imaginary notion of her 14-year old self and resumed her 'growth' from there. I really think that not only does she behave much younger than her years in HBP, but that she is uncharacteristically silly and shallow. |
Hermione's actions in HBP are, as you said, a sign of arrested development and there is no doubt that she behaved quite badly regarding Ron. However, Hermione was not completely immature in this book. She may have been more tetchy than usual because of Ron's actions and her advice, when given, was short and slightly irratable (although I may point out that she was similarly so in PoA when she was under pressure) but she still gave good advice regardless of how it was delivered.
For example, Hermione warned Harry that it would not be easy to get the memory from Slughorn and she was right. Her warnings to Harry that he must proceed with tact in this matter fell on deaf ears. This was a fault of Harry's over confidence rather than anything Hermione did. Hermione was also the one who never trusted the advice Harry was getting from his potions book, her suspicions of which turned out to be quite correct. She may have been rather tactless and short when she warned Harry about the book but she was right about it none the less. It was also Hermione who noticed that Dumbledore was absent from the school quite frequently (something Harry only noticed after Hermione had pointed it out to him) and Hermione who realised what Harry's feelings for Ginny were. Also, when Hermione returned to Hogwarts after Christmas, she became more scathing towards Ron and less emotional regarding his relationship with Lavender. In other words, she may not have liked it, but she dealt with it more maturely.
Westerly, I am nowhere near as eloquant as you (Your above post was excellent) but what I am trying to say is that I think Hermione's actions in HBP were not completely ridiculous and 'un-Hermionish'. She was very much herself in all aspects except Ron and as I explained in my previous post, there were reasons for this.
You yourself explained how people can react in terms of romance when you said;
| QUOTE |
| I honestly find it odd that sexual and/or romantic awareness is unreflexively equated with 'maturity'. As far as I'm concerned the one does not necessarily entail the other - not at all. Kissing (or sex for that matter) doesn't suddenly transform you into an adult. Being wildly interested in the opposite sex or a particular guy, and having tremendous fits of jealousy is not an automatic rite of passage into womanhood (or manhood) or very indicative of emotional maturity. |
I agree whole heartedly here but I would also like to add that I think it depends on the person in question. People will always react diferently in matters of romance, and what one person might consider extreme, another may consider perfectly normal. Hermione's actions did not surprise me in HBP because I have seen many extremely intelligent, mature women (and men!!) become childish, petty and jealous in matters of romance, particularly when they have been scorned or hurt (it never ceases to amaze me actually, how rational adults can turn into an emotional or angry force of nature when confronted with a difficult romance. My best friend is Hermione down to the ground. One of the most practical and steady women you could meet. However, she can become a sobbing teenager whenever there is a problem with her boyfriend, a thing I would never has suspected her of until I witnessed it for myself. But I digress.). I fully realise that many adults remain adults when dealing with matters of the heart but my point is that not all do regardless of their usual temperment. Hermione, usually a mature, intelligent and responsible girl became rather childish and petty when Ron started dating Lavender but became more mature about it as the school year went on (as I've already said, please see my previous post for reasons Hermione behaved the way she did).
The point at the end of all this is that we can never predict how someone will act in these situations, as human nature can be unpredictable to say the least in certain circumstances (of which romance is inveriably one).
Wow! I never realized that people were so passionate about this... I never really thought about it, just accepted the characters as they were presented. In my opinion? Hermione is behaving quite similarly to how Harry behaved in OotP, and he got over it, so so will she. And the reason Hermione's character seems to lack depth is that things like SPEW became less important to the overall plot. JKR talked about SPEW so much in OotP that there wasn't anything left to say in HBP. Obviously, though, people missed it more than she thought they would.
I'm really surprised at the negative reactions to Hermione in this book! I thought for the first time Hermione seemed less like a punchcard, plot necessary character and more like a person.
I totally understand people who question whether "maturity" is the right word to describe her feelings for Ron and the actions that result from them. Maybe "maturity" is not the right word. But it definitely is a sign of "Growing up." I like old Hermione. But as far as I see, you have two ways of reading the behavior of 12, 13, 14, 15 year old Hermione:
1. She's one of those super-precocious kids who is incredibly intelligent, knows she's intelligent. She's an only child, has never had many friends. As a result, she really wants to identify as an adult, not as a child. So she puts on "adult" airs, most notably stoicisim, an artificially inflated sense of right and wrong (which inevitably, given her lack of life experience, manifests itself in an impossibly simplistic black/white formula), and a forced seriousness. She is not mature in the early books--she is a little kid trying very hard to act like an adult (something that's really not that uncommon, you'll see, if you spend time around enough kids that age). She forces herself to behave in a certain way in an attempt to escape those things about childhood that she doens't like (the alienation, loneliness, powerlessness). She's living a perpetual make-believe of being an adult, without the worldliness to really know what that means and what that entails.
or, option two:
2. She's an emotionless cyborg. The cyborg is replaced in HBP.
I prefer explanation 1.
In HBP, her relationship with Ron may not be "mature", but it shows inescapable signs of Hermione growing up. She is shaking free of these defense mechanisms, these walls that are supposed to protect her from caring about being unpopular or made fun of, or of doing the wrong thing. For the first time, she seems to be a person acting naturally, allowing herself to be a kid, a fully fledged human character who is not stiffling at every turn her instincts to have fun and feel certain ways. Being 17 and having a crush and doing things a little irrationally are all part of growing up, no matter what your personality is. Relinquishing the act of being a grown-up at age 12 is necessary to her actually growing up and becoming an adult!
As a corallary to this, I really suspect that people, say, ages 20 and under may have a tendancy to read HBP Hermione negatively, and older readers tend to read her more positively. But maybe that's just because I am a 20-something who likes HBP Hermione.
I totally understand people who question whether "maturity" is the right word to describe her feelings for Ron and the actions that result from them. Maybe "maturity" is not the right word. But it definitely is a sign of "Growing up." I like old Hermione. But as far as I see, you have two ways of reading the behavior of 12, 13, 14, 15 year old Hermione:
1. She's one of those super-precocious kids who is incredibly intelligent, knows she's intelligent. She's an only child, has never had many friends. As a result, she really wants to identify as an adult, not as a child. So she puts on "adult" airs, most notably stoicisim, an artificially inflated sense of right and wrong (which inevitably, given her lack of life experience, manifests itself in an impossibly simplistic black/white formula), and a forced seriousness. She is not mature in the early books--she is a little kid trying very hard to act like an adult (something that's really not that uncommon, you'll see, if you spend time around enough kids that age). She forces herself to behave in a certain way in an attempt to escape those things about childhood that she doens't like (the alienation, loneliness, powerlessness). She's living a perpetual make-believe of being an adult, without the worldliness to really know what that means and what that entails.
or, option two:
2. She's an emotionless cyborg. The cyborg is replaced in HBP.
I prefer explanation 1.
In HBP, her relationship with Ron may not be "mature", but it shows inescapable signs of Hermione growing up. She is shaking free of these defense mechanisms, these walls that are supposed to protect her from caring about being unpopular or made fun of, or of doing the wrong thing. For the first time, she seems to be a person acting naturally, allowing herself to be a kid, a fully fledged human character who is not stiffling at every turn her instincts to have fun and feel certain ways. Being 17 and having a crush and doing things a little irrationally are all part of growing up, no matter what your personality is. Relinquishing the act of being a grown-up at age 12 is necessary to her actually growing up and becoming an adult!
As a corallary to this, I really suspect that people, say, ages 20 and under may have a tendancy to read HBP Hermione negatively, and older readers tend to read her more positively. But maybe that's just because I am a 20-something who likes HBP Hermione.
HiddenHorcrux,
Great point about Hermione being an only child and always trying to act more adult than she was.
I was happy with Hermione in HBP. After all these years of loving Ron, she's getting fed up.
The bird attack had nothing to do with getting his attention. It had everything to do with how hurt and confused and angry she was over his sudden cold and sneering treatment of her. Plus, as fvweasley rightly mentioned, it had been so hard for her to expose her feelings for Ron out there at all but she had done it by asking him to Slughorn's party. What a difficult thing for someone like her who hides her emotions to do!
Recall she had no idea why Ron suddenly became cold towards her. No idea why, after he tells her "No, I wouldn't" to her "if you'd rather I hook up with McLaggen..." he's suddenly going with Lavender Brown whom he'd shown no previous interest in.
Lavender was just a convenient way for Ron to strike back at Herm and Ginny's taunts about his lack of experience. But Hermione wasn't to know that.
I also thought her mistrust of the Prince's book was very Hermione-ish.
Helping Ron out in the trials? She'd do anything for Ron..well, until he started up snogging with Lavender.
Great point about Hermione being an only child and always trying to act more adult than she was.
I was happy with Hermione in HBP. After all these years of loving Ron, she's getting fed up.
The bird attack had nothing to do with getting his attention. It had everything to do with how hurt and confused and angry she was over his sudden cold and sneering treatment of her. Plus, as fvweasley rightly mentioned, it had been so hard for her to expose her feelings for Ron out there at all but she had done it by asking him to Slughorn's party. What a difficult thing for someone like her who hides her emotions to do!
Recall she had no idea why Ron suddenly became cold towards her. No idea why, after he tells her "No, I wouldn't" to her "if you'd rather I hook up with McLaggen..." he's suddenly going with Lavender Brown whom he'd shown no previous interest in.
Lavender was just a convenient way for Ron to strike back at Herm and Ginny's taunts about his lack of experience. But Hermione wasn't to know that.
I also thought her mistrust of the Prince's book was very Hermione-ish.
Helping Ron out in the trials? She'd do anything for Ron..well, until he started up snogging with Lavender.
Basically it's boiling down to the preference of Hermione's romantic partner to judge Hermione's character development in HBP. I don't think Hermione has become un-Hermionish in HBP. She has just grown up one more year. The start of her explosive side was when Ron snogged Lavender. She was so humiliated that she showed us her bad side. Now we understand why she doesn't have many friends.
Jo Rowling has cleverly written Hermione's character using Harry's point-of-view. In Book 1, when Hermione was not yet "useful" for Harry, Harry found her annoying, as much as any other students in his year. Once she helped him, Hermione was shown in a good light. Many readers fell for it, and fantasized Hermione as a nice intelligent girl, forgetting how annoying she was. Now, she was not much helpful to Harry, distrusting Harry about the Prince Potion book, and was angry at Ron. Harry witnessed the bad side of her, without anymore "sweet covering". That shocked many readers who already fell they "knew" Hermione (through Harry's biased view) and feel that Jo Rowling made Hermione "out-of-character" (not according to their "dream" about Hermione). Actually, we know how ruthless she can be: hexing Neville cold-bloodedly, sneak-attacking Snape, using Time-Turner for her own advantage without regard to her best friends. Still Hermione is not a bad girl. She is just not a perfect nice girl. This is why I find Jo Rowling unique in her description of characters. Nobody's perfect.
Hermione is still the same girl as in Book 1 to 5. She is just a bit older and forced to show her bad side due to the desperation of losing her "heart desire".
Jo Rowling has cleverly written Hermione's character using Harry's point-of-view. In Book 1, when Hermione was not yet "useful" for Harry, Harry found her annoying, as much as any other students in his year. Once she helped him, Hermione was shown in a good light. Many readers fell for it, and fantasized Hermione as a nice intelligent girl, forgetting how annoying she was. Now, she was not much helpful to Harry, distrusting Harry about the Prince Potion book, and was angry at Ron. Harry witnessed the bad side of her, without anymore "sweet covering". That shocked many readers who already fell they "knew" Hermione (through Harry's biased view) and feel that Jo Rowling made Hermione "out-of-character" (not according to their "dream" about Hermione). Actually, we know how ruthless she can be: hexing Neville cold-bloodedly, sneak-attacking Snape, using Time-Turner for her own advantage without regard to her best friends. Still Hermione is not a bad girl. She is just not a perfect nice girl. This is why I find Jo Rowling unique in her description of characters. Nobody's perfect.
Hermione is still the same girl as in Book 1 to 5. She is just a bit older and forced to show her bad side due to the desperation of losing her "heart desire".
Hermione is a matured character from the beginning. She is good at hiding her feelings. She is giving respect to the friendship between the three of them. I think that she is not having any other friend except harry and ron. she is ready to do anything for them and taking care about them. But i think she is having secret feelings for Harry and JKR is cleverly covering it in between the lines. In tryouts she is not at all said a goodluck to Ron. She is just watching the tryouts and from the facial expressions of Harry she knew that Harry was disappointed with Cormac Mecleggan and to please harry she confounded cormac. She confounded him even before he accused Ron and Ginny. But when Harry asked her she blushed and gave a reason that cormac blamed Ron and Ginny. She was angry with Harry (not with Ron for that lavender matter) because he made her to believe that he had gave lucky potion to Ron. She was upset because using the lucky potion on a sport event is illigal. After the match she expected Harry to come to her in the common room but he was surrounded by the students especially by the girls. After that he went to Ginny to ask for Ron. I think that was the reason for Hermione's anger. We have the same type of scene in POA . In that situation also she felt angry because Harry came to her after hours and asked her to join the celebations. At that time also she showed her anger and ran out of the common room. She made the birds to attack Ron because he interupted between her and Harry, not only this time from the very beginning. She was annoyed by the fact that the very important thing which harry did not want to miss was Ron (GOF) in that scene without reason she snapped Ron. She was not having any crush with Krum and i had doubt that she confessed her feelings for Harry to Krum in their farewell meeting. Maybe Krum asked her to show her love to harry as soon as possible because Krum knew that harry did not think Hermione more than a friend. So she did a thing which she had never done before she kissed Harry. JKR told in an interview that we will meet Krum in the next book. So there may be a chance to Harry to knew about Hermione's love for him through Krum. Hermione's character is the only one which is strong and loving character from the beginning. I liked that character very much.There may be a question, why dont she tell Harry that she is liking him? I think she is afraid of losing his friend ship if he did not like her.She is giving more respect to frienship.
MOD NOTE: Please note that your post really belongs in the Harry/Hermione ship, not in a character assesment of Hermione thread. Please try to keep your responses focased on the topic at hand.
MOD NOTE: Please note that your post really belongs in the Harry/Hermione ship, not in a character assesment of Hermione thread. Please try to keep your responses focased on the topic at hand.
That was an interesting insight of Hermione, WellwisherofHarry. I like Hermione too and have from the very beginning. Referring to your sentence as to why Hermione doesn't tell Harry she likes him. I do agree that she may have thought that Harry would not reciprocate her love and therefore, jeopardize their friendship. I also think that Hermione may believe that she isn't pretty enough for him. JKR has described her as rather a plain Jane. The only time Harry saw her as attractive was in GoF when they were at the Yule Ball. Harry has always gravitated to the really pretty girls. Like Cho and Ginny. This makes me say that Harry is a bit shallow, but to Hermione, who may very well like him more than a friend, it's JUST HARRY. She still likes him. People in love, don't see the flaws in the ones they love.
Another aspect about Hermione in HBP is that I didn't like the way JKR portrayed her. I have often said that JKR stripped Hermione's common sense and the personality that we had come to associate with her and turned around and handed it to Ginny on the perverbial, silver platter! I wonder if love potions may have affected our Hermione? And Harry too for that matter. In all honesty, Hermione in HBP was NOTHING like herself in books 1 - 5. My question to JKR is "Why did you do this to Hermione?".
I hope to see a lot of Harry and Hermione together-type moments in the final book. That would make book 7 very enjoable to me.
Another aspect about Hermione in HBP is that I didn't like the way JKR portrayed her. I have often said that JKR stripped Hermione's common sense and the personality that we had come to associate with her and turned around and handed it to Ginny on the perverbial, silver platter! I wonder if love potions may have affected our Hermione? And Harry too for that matter. In all honesty, Hermione in HBP was NOTHING like herself in books 1 - 5. My question to JKR is "Why did you do this to Hermione?".
I hope to see a lot of Harry and Hermione together-type moments in the final book. That would make book 7 very enjoable to me.
Okay, I'm starting to get boring here I know, but once again - great points, Muggleview.
One of the most intriguing characteristics about JKR's characters is that they are not ALL good or ALL bad. They are not completely black or white in personality, intentions, morals or views. They are much more complicated characters than that which is very rare in fiction and rarer still in movie characters.
Another excellent part of JKR's world is that these kids (the fictional ones I mean) are growing up, maturing and changing. And that means hormones come into play and the best and worst of them come out.
HBP showed more depth in Hermione than previously because she is growing and changing and yes, not always for the better. I didn't mind seeing Hermione in a rage (the bird scene), hurt and bewildered (Ron gets cold and sneering when he finds out she possibly snogged Krum) and jealous (inviting McLaggen to Slughorn's bash).
It's all part of growing up. I thought Hermione was more fun in this book because she showed more sides of herself than previously.
One of the most intriguing characteristics about JKR's characters is that they are not ALL good or ALL bad. They are not completely black or white in personality, intentions, morals or views. They are much more complicated characters than that which is very rare in fiction and rarer still in movie characters.
Another excellent part of JKR's world is that these kids (the fictional ones I mean) are growing up, maturing and changing. And that means hormones come into play and the best and worst of them come out.
HBP showed more depth in Hermione than previously because she is growing and changing and yes, not always for the better. I didn't mind seeing Hermione in a rage (the bird scene), hurt and bewildered (Ron gets cold and sneering when he finds out she possibly snogged Krum) and jealous (inviting McLaggen to Slughorn's bash).
It's all part of growing up. I thought Hermione was more fun in this book because she showed more sides of herself than previously.
| QUOTE (muggleview) |
| Basically it's boiling down to the preference of Hermione's romantic partner to judge Hermione's character development in HBP. |
Oh Muggy, now please...you and I have been old sparring partners for a very long time here now and I seriously hope that you would credit me, Westerly and other posters here who didn't like how Hermione's character changed in HBP with slightly more depth than to judge her purely from the perspective that our ship didn't work out. I certainly hope that I'd put forward a more definitive argument than that based on such things as how her role had been reduced towards the latter part of the book to make room for Ginny, for example - that's not a relationship issue. That's simply as issue that, after five books of building her character up, she has apparently been shunted sideways to make room for a love interest which I happen to think detracts from the integrity of the character. It's a little like ramming a square peg into a round hole, if you know what I mean.
I've accepted Ron and Hermione's "thing", whatever it is, honestly I have and I'm fine with it now so these feelings have nothing to do with my being a "bitter shipper". They are simply to do with my not particularly liking the shift in focus in this book.
Louise, I definitely respect the opinions of yours, Westerly and other fellow posters. I just want to caution all posters not to put too much feelings into a fictional story. The story is man-made and the author, who is not as just and powerful as Almighty God, can make the plot running however she (or he) likes without consideration to any particular readers' feeling.
Setting aside our dislikes or disagreements to what the author has written, we can still see how she wants the characters to be developed.
I want to point out Jo Rowling's originality in depicting the trait development of teenagers. We know the classic but idealistic "Breakfast Club" movie. We know several come-to-age romances of old times. However, seldom we have the way Jo Rowling writes about it. We now read a modern interpretation of youth life in the contrasting background of 19th century-style wizard world.
Can you imagine a cute, nice little girl with a wand, which can hex anyone with Unforgivable Curses, to be a cute, nice little girl you know next door?
Hermione is not a cute, nice little girl next door. She exists in the dark, mysterious, dangerous, amazing wizard world. Can you expect her to be all timid, forgiving and not using any curses at all?
Hermione is on good side. She has more good than bad. She uses her intelligence to help others, sometimes, instead of just thinking of herself. She stole our hearts because she is in the league with our hero.
Nevertheless, we know that she was very ambitious to be the best in her year. She even utilizes questionable method using "Time turner" to achieve more than any other students in her year. (Originally I suspect she wanted to beat Draco, but then Draco was never shown to be better than Harry or Ron, so Hermione just wants to be the number one herself.) That's not a bad thing per se, because other than Time-turner, she relied on hard-working to achieve the goal. However, we also know that she doesn't take a loss lightly. She kept tally how Harry one-upped her in the 3rd year DADA. She was disappointed to see her DADA OWL is not Outstanding (Ron, who understands her soul much better than anybody else, realized it and told the readers about it). Her act towards Harry's being better than her at Potion is completely within this realm.
She was downright unpleasant when her ambition is under threat.
In HBP, Hermione faced 2 threats from her 2 best friends: Harry being better at Potion than her, Ron liking other girl more than her. Now we see the other face of Hermione. No more Nice Miss Granger until later she was mature enough to handle her feelings properly. She accepted that the Potion book was useful (to save Ron's life) and without it Harry was no better than her. She accepted that Ron has done his "research" and now chose her instead of any other girls. Then, we see our nice Hermione again at the end: the fragile, emotional girl, whose brilliant mind solve the mystery of "Half-Blood Prince" but failed to prevent any disasters using that information.
Regarding the way Hermione was described in HBP, I can see how Jo Rowling actually did a superb job. Harry being annoyed at Hermione's constant showing of dissatisfaction at his "Potion skill" didn't have a good impression about her, so he said less favourable and in less frequency about her (again the brilliance of using Harry as our sole window to his world, with some exceptions). Harry saw Ron and Hermione's developing romance with a believable weary of a boy at the point of losing good times with his best friend (Ron) for going out with his girlfriend (Hermione). Again, a source of unfavourable thoughts about Hermione. As Harry himself was occupied with the unresolved tension on Ginny, he looked down on Hermione's frantic reactions to Ron's romance with Lavender. In fact, Harry doesn't oppose Ron-Lavender relationship very much, because he hoped it would allow him to get to Ginny easier. Same as the readers, Harry was definitely surprised to see the "less nice" side of Hermione. He faithfully described it the way he saw it, but with a note on how low a girl would go for revenge. So it's not that Jo Rowling changes Hermione's character. It's Hermione's seldom-spoken bad characters that now emerged prominently and it's the way Harry saw Hermione that was changed due to his bias to her unfriendly behaviour toward him.
I have pointed in previous discussions that in OOP whenever Hermione was alone with Harry, her mind immediately wandered to Ron. That is pretty consistent in HBP. Hermione was not only narrow-minded about her academic ambition, she was narrow-minded about her choice of lover. That hasn't been changed. In my humble opinion.
Setting aside our dislikes or disagreements to what the author has written, we can still see how she wants the characters to be developed.
I want to point out Jo Rowling's originality in depicting the trait development of teenagers. We know the classic but idealistic "Breakfast Club" movie. We know several come-to-age romances of old times. However, seldom we have the way Jo Rowling writes about it. We now read a modern interpretation of youth life in the contrasting background of 19th century-style wizard world.
Can you imagine a cute, nice little girl with a wand, which can hex anyone with Unforgivable Curses, to be a cute, nice little girl you know next door?
Hermione is not a cute, nice little girl next door. She exists in the dark, mysterious, dangerous, amazing wizard world. Can you expect her to be all timid, forgiving and not using any curses at all?
Hermione is on good side. She has more good than bad. She uses her intelligence to help others, sometimes, instead of just thinking of herself. She stole our hearts because she is in the league with our hero.
Nevertheless, we know that she was very ambitious to be the best in her year. She even utilizes questionable method using "Time turner" to achieve more than any other students in her year. (Originally I suspect she wanted to beat Draco, but then Draco was never shown to be better than Harry or Ron, so Hermione just wants to be the number one herself.) That's not a bad thing per se, because other than Time-turner, she relied on hard-working to achieve the goal. However, we also know that she doesn't take a loss lightly. She kept tally how Harry one-upped her in the 3rd year DADA. She was disappointed to see her DADA OWL is not Outstanding (Ron, who understands her soul much better than anybody else, realized it and told the readers about it). Her act towards Harry's being better than her at Potion is completely within this realm.
She was downright unpleasant when her ambition is under threat.
In HBP, Hermione faced 2 threats from her 2 best friends: Harry being better at Potion than her, Ron liking other girl more than her. Now we see the other face of Hermione. No more Nice Miss Granger until later she was mature enough to handle her feelings properly. She accepted that the Potion book was useful (to save Ron's life) and without it Harry was no better than her. She accepted that Ron has done his "research" and now chose her instead of any other girls. Then, we see our nice Hermione again at the end: the fragile, emotional girl, whose brilliant mind solve the mystery of "Half-Blood Prince" but failed to prevent any disasters using that information.
Regarding the way Hermione was described in HBP, I can see how Jo Rowling actually did a superb job. Harry being annoyed at Hermione's constant showing of dissatisfaction at his "Potion skill" didn't have a good impression about her, so he said less favourable and in less frequency about her (again the brilliance of using Harry as our sole window to his world, with some exceptions). Harry saw Ron and Hermione's developing romance with a believable weary of a boy at the point of losing good times with his best friend (Ron) for going out with his girlfriend (Hermione). Again, a source of unfavourable thoughts about Hermione. As Harry himself was occupied with the unresolved tension on Ginny, he looked down on Hermione's frantic reactions to Ron's romance with Lavender. In fact, Harry doesn't oppose Ron-Lavender relationship very much, because he hoped it would allow him to get to Ginny easier. Same as the readers, Harry was definitely surprised to see the "less nice" side of Hermione. He faithfully described it the way he saw it, but with a note on how low a girl would go for revenge. So it's not that Jo Rowling changes Hermione's character. It's Hermione's seldom-spoken bad characters that now emerged prominently and it's the way Harry saw Hermione that was changed due to his bias to her unfriendly behaviour toward him.
I have pointed in previous discussions that in OOP whenever Hermione was alone with Harry, her mind immediately wandered to Ron. That is pretty consistent in HBP. Hermione was not only narrow-minded about her academic ambition, she was narrow-minded about her choice of lover. That hasn't been changed. In my humble opinion.
Muggle view, please, dont tell that Hermione character is narrow minded regarding academic goal. If so why she helped both Ron and Harry in doing their homework from the beginning? She is following the rules and wants to be perfect. She is giving more consern to friendship and then sometimes ready to break the rules for her friends.She hexed Naville, attack snape etc, but why? She wanted to help her friend. She was really worried about the Prince book because it might be a dangerous one. Even though Harry get irritated, She tested the book in the greathall carefully and gave it to Harry. She was angry because harry was doing well in potions than her. But it is natural for girl who is always doing well in education with hardwork. Is n't? Even Harry felt guilty to receive the lucky potion when he saw the disappointment on her face. She was angry again when they were doing antitode potion. But immediately she forget about it and go to the library to see about horcruxes. At the end Harry accusing himself and told her that she was the only person who was correct about the prince book she did not bleme him. She consoled him and asked him not to take too much blame on himself. She did not like to see Harry hurt.When she grabbed Ron's hand when there is fale snow foolowing,Lavender glared her. She immediately go off Ron's hand. If she was jealous with her is it possible to her? She was not bothered about Ron and Lavender. She worried that why Harry still refuse to understand her? She is liking Harry from their 1 st year and still she is sticking in that. Really Hermione character is the best one in the series. In fact i have sympathy for that character.
MOD EDIT: Could you drop by the rules forum please. Double posts are not permitted. There is an edit link in the top right hand corner of you own post where you can add afterthoughts. Thanks You next post said...
I want to include one more point muggleview. you told that no more nice granger till she knew that Ron finished his research and chosed her. After christmas Harry returned to school and told her about the happenings in burrow. Ron and Lavender are snogging in the same room. She did not even look at them and she heard what Harry told her carefully. It was Hermione who recognised the werewolf's name as Fenrir Greyback immediately. Even harry gasped at her. Is her intelligent mind not worked nicely in spite of Ron's attitute?
MOD EDIT: Could you drop by the rules forum please. Double posts are not permitted. There is an edit link in the top right hand corner of you own post where you can add afterthoughts. Thanks
You next post said...I want to include one more point muggleview. you told that no more nice granger till she knew that Ron finished his research and chosed her. After christmas Harry returned to school and told her about the happenings in burrow. Ron and Lavender are snogging in the same room. She did not even look at them and she heard what Harry told her carefully. It was Hermione who recognised the werewolf's name as Fenrir Greyback immediately. Even harry gasped at her. Is her intelligent mind not worked nicely in spite of Ron's attitute?
WellWisherofHarry,
| QUOTE |
| If so why she helped both Ron and Harry in doing their homework from the beginning? |
Hermione started to help Ron and Harry doing their homework only in OOP, after she looked at Ron with "odd expression" (according to Harry). Before that, she always refused to help. In HBP she continued to help them.
She knows those two will not be her rivals in academic level, and by now, she wouldn't have the heart to let them get low grades in homeworks. So in this aspect, Hermione in HBP is the same girl as in OOP.
| QUOTE |
| She hexed Naville, attack snape etc, but why? She wanted to help her friend. |
In HBP she hex McLaggen to help her friend. No change here.
| QUOTE |
| But it is natural for girl who is always doing well in education with hardwork. Is n't? |
Glad that you support my statement about this.
| QUOTE |
| When she grabbed Ron's hand when there is fale snow foolowing,Lavender glared her. She immediately go off Ron's hand. If she was jealous with her is it possible to her? |
Why would she be jealous? At that time, Ron has broken up the relationship with Lavender the night before, while Hermione was there witnessing the whole thing. Now Ron is free to go back to her.
Lavender was Hermione's dormmate. She wouldn't want to go too far in making her angry. However, Hermione didn't reject Ron sweeping the snow off her shoulder. Harry noticed that Ron and Hermione were taking the scene naturally.
| QUOTE |
| She was not bothered about Ron and Lavender. She worried that why Harry still refuse to understand her? She is liking Harry from their 1 st year and still she is sticking in that. Really Hermione character is the best one in the series. |
The whole statements are your personal opinion. They are not in the books, but you are free to interpret the books as you wish. I respect your freedom.
| QUOTE |
| Ron and Lavender are snogging in the same room. She did not even look at them and she heard what Harry told her carefully. It was Hermione who recognised the werewolf's name as Fenrir Greyback immediately. Even harry gasped at her. Is her intelligent mind not worked nicely in spite of Ron's attitute? |
Hermione had tried to block the image of Ron from her mind several times as Harry noticed. She refused to speak to Ron until the poisoning incident. Meanwhile the school went on as usual. Why should Hermione not be able to think? During the breakup with Ron in POA, Hermione buried herself in the library for Buckbeak and her own multiple classes. I think HBP clearly showed that Hermione was in denial. She was not fully her own self until Ron was back to her side. However, she still can think. In fact, this partially proves how strong is her ambition for the academic goal, although now that was not her main thing in life anymore (Ron starts to occupy her thought more).
I think the description you gave shows the flowing development of Hermione's character. Whether it satisfies all readers is beside the point. Jo Rowling has done a great job in making the character developments memorable and in good flow. Hermione still carries her unique traits from Book 1 to now, and now she is maturing not to focus only on the academic and rules. The effects of hormones and romance have been written rationally. All of those things describe Hermione the way Jo Rowling has intended to portray her, no more no less. She is not written to please the readers, but for the readers to observe a case of how a young talented witch comes to age.
"So you're going to go with the best looking girl who will have you no matter how horrible she is?"
"That's about right."
Jo Rowling has admitted that Hermione is based on herself when younger: a girl who hides all her insecurities behind knowledge "books and cleverness."
Hermione doesn't think herself the prettiest but figures she'll use her brain. Unfortunately, this annoys most students around her. This is the main reason for her seemingly lack of closer friends other than Ron and Harry. Many guys are put off by girls smater than they are (obviously Ron and Harry rise above this) and many girls think she's self-important when the opposite is true.
There has been much mentioned of Hermione being socially backward. Well, she is not the easy going jokester Ron is obviously. But she does seem to hold her own when given half a chance in social situations (Yule Ball, DA meetings). It seems that many students at Hogwarts have already passed judgement on her, maybe unfairly so, and that accounts for this assumed lack of social performance. I just see her as a bit shyer and less sure of herself around others she doesn't know well.
Certainly, if she's been the top in every subject, she would be angered by Harry's rise to the top of the Potions class since he was only getting there by cheating (using the Prince's instructions and not doing his own work). If Harry was top in Potions by his own work and not the Prince's, she would have reacted differently though she would have felt she'd failed somehow after being top in class herself for so long.
Obviously, the whole break between her and Ron was very emotionally upsetting to Hermione (and to Ron "is Hermione really going out with McLaggen?"). Especially since Hermione never did know what it was she'd done to cause Ron to become cold and sneering and turn to Lavender (Hermione's supposed snog with Krum).
She's one of my favorite characters, too. She'd do anything for her friends and she treasures her friendship with Harry and her friendship/relationship with Ron. But she isn't perfect. I loved when she attacked Ron with the birds. She was angry and hurt. She tried to walk calmly out of the room but she just couldn't help it. That was a very illuminiating moment I thought.
Over the last two books, she's lightened up and JK Rowling said in an interview that Hermione would lighten up even more and I'm looking forward to that.
"That's about right."
Jo Rowling has admitted that Hermione is based on herself when younger: a girl who hides all her insecurities behind knowledge "books and cleverness."
Hermione doesn't think herself the prettiest but figures she'll use her brain. Unfortunately, this annoys most students around her. This is the main reason for her seemingly lack of closer friends other than Ron and Harry. Many guys are put off by girls smater than they are (obviously Ron and Harry rise above this) and many girls think she's self-important when the opposite is true.
There has been much mentioned of Hermione being socially backward. Well, she is not the easy going jokester Ron is obviously. But she does seem to hold her own when given half a chance in social situations (Yule Ball, DA meetings). It seems that many students at Hogwarts have already passed judgement on her, maybe unfairly so, and that accounts for this assumed lack of social performance. I just see her as a bit shyer and less sure of herself around others she doesn't know well.
Certainly, if she's been the top in every subject, she would be angered by Harry's rise to the top of the Potions class since he was only getting there by cheating (using the Prince's instructions and not doing his own work). If Harry was top in Potions by his own work and not the Prince's, she would have reacted differently though she would have felt she'd failed somehow after being top in class herself for so long.
Obviously, the whole break between her and Ron was very emotionally upsetting to Hermione (and to Ron "is Hermione really going out with McLaggen?"). Especially since Hermione never did know what it was she'd done to cause Ron to become cold and sneering and turn to Lavender (Hermione's supposed snog with Krum).
She's one of my favorite characters, too. She'd do anything for her friends and she treasures her friendship with Harry and her friendship/relationship with Ron. But she isn't perfect. I loved when she attacked Ron with the birds. She was angry and hurt. She tried to walk calmly out of the room but she just couldn't help it. That was a very illuminiating moment I thought.
Over the last two books, she's lightened up and JK Rowling said in an interview that Hermione would lighten up even more and I'm looking forward to that.
Muggleview, Hermione helped both Ron and Harry from their 1st year.Harry thought that it is very useful to get Hermione's friendship because she hapled him in his homework.(I think after the troll incident).She was helping upto 4th year. She refused to help in 5th year because they were having owl exams. That particular scene ((OOP) Ron received a letter from Percy telling him not to be friedns with Harry. So both Ron and Harry upset. So she helped them.When Ron scolding Percy she wear that odd expression. She even helped Navile also.
2. You accept that hexing,attacking all are to help her friends.It did not show the other side of Hermione no more seet covering. Thankyou.
3.I did not tell that she was not able to think. You told that no more nice Granger till she get Ron. So i high lighted that incident(Fenrir Geryback)to show that the intelligent Granger is there without getting Ron. In fact at first she left the Prince matter just like that becuase the book did not do any harm as she afraid. After the sectumsempra spell which leads Harry to a dangerous position (If snape did not help Malfoy would have died) and he escaped narrowly from Snape. So she alerted and tried to fine the clue about the Price.
In the whole book she is as normal as before except two scenes 1.birds attack,2.Invite Mclaggen to the party. If i start to explain these things it will become a H/Hr ship story. Anyhow as you told we have our right to assume the story as we wish. Still 7th book is there to answer all the questions.JKR Need not write to please any particular set of readers. After all the story is her own imagination and she is dreaming the story for the past 15 years. So let us wait and see the end.It is the point where we have to stop the arguments.
2. You accept that hexing,attacking all are to help her friends.It did not show the other side of Hermione no more seet covering. Thankyou.
3.I did not tell that she was not able to think. You told that no more nice Granger till she get Ron. So i high lighted that incident(Fenrir Geryback)to show that the intelligent Granger is there without getting Ron. In fact at first she left the Prince matter just like that becuase the book did not do any harm as she afraid. After the sectumsempra spell which leads Harry to a dangerous position (If snape did not help Malfoy would have died) and he escaped narrowly from Snape. So she alerted and tried to fine the clue about the Price.
In the whole book she is as normal as before except two scenes 1.birds attack,2.Invite Mclaggen to the party. If i start to explain these things it will become a H/Hr ship story. Anyhow as you told we have our right to assume the story as we wish. Still 7th book is there to answer all the questions.JKR Need not write to please any particular set of readers. After all the story is her own imagination and she is dreaming the story for the past 15 years. So let us wait and see the end.It is the point where we have to stop the arguments.
i dont like hermione in tbis book 
i was always a hermione a fan...well, except when i first started reading the books i called her hermoninny...lol...but i eventually got her name right...anywho...wouldnt draco and hermione make the cutest couple...a tormented soul and a girl who isnt seen by her ow two best friends...ron and harry take her for granted...they didnt even see that she was a girl and no way in hell are hermione and ron dating ever gunna be okay with me...I MEAN WHAT WAS JK ROWLING THINKING!!!
Ron and Hermione are born to be together. All they need is a little push in the right direction Hermione's character is changing as much as the rest of them. Thery are all growing and evolving into young adults. Surely Hermione has to let out her feelings sometime. She maybe fixated with books but she is as normal as the next person and she is bound to come out about her true feelings for Ron. Or someone else she may surprise us tehehehehe it could be Snape her heart is after lol. It's understandable 
Hermione's character is changing as much as the rest of them. Thery are all growing and evolving into young adults. Surely Hermione has to let out her feelings sometime. She maybe fixated with books but she is as normal as the next person and she is bound to come out about her true feelings for Ron. Or someone else she may surprise us tehehehehe it could be Snape her heart is after lol. It's understandable
Hiya mates!
blood, could you please take a few minutes to read through the forum rules? One-liners are not allowed, as they don't add much to the discussion, and thisn is a discussion forum. Please elaborate more in future posts.
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Cheers
blood, could you please take a few minutes to read through the forum rules? One-liners are not allowed, as they don't add much to the discussion, and thisn is a discussion forum. Please elaborate more in future posts.
If you need anything, my PM box is always open.
Cheers
Wellwisher of Harry, I am not going to argue about your opinions, but just want some clarification so I can understand your posting:
| QUOTE |
| 2. You accept that hexing,attacking all are to help her friends.It did not show the other side of Hermione no more seet covering. Thankyou. |
I know we agree that Hermione's character is not changed in term of helping friends to the point of hexing other people. However what do you mean by the second sentence?
I am also relieved that we narrow down the assumed peculiarity in Hermione's character only into 2 parts: birds and McLaggen invitation.
I think you are not the one who thinks that Hermione is totally out-of-character in HBP. Only in 2 occassions above Hermione seemed to be un-Hermionish. I have my opinion on that, but as I said earlier, I am not going to argue with you about this, since you want to leave it to book 7.
Now not particularly for Wellwisher of Harry anymore, another point:
HP number one Fan stated the very important key in understanding the characters in HBP: they are growing into young adults. Hermione has been attentive to Ron in term of helping him or not wanting his Dad to get into trouble (in several occassions). Now that she is sure about her relationship, she is ready to forgive and move on even Ron hurt her before. That's a sign of maturity. To love is to forgive. This is how we can see Hermione's character growing into. She is still know-it-all, and very opiniated. She is still "brilliant, but scary" (as Ron said in Movie 1). But she handles herself well enough not to scare other peoples (as during OWL exams in OOP), during her feud with Ron. She won't turn into a meek, graceful young lady overnight, but at least she turns softer to Ron, not showing her nasty vocabularies as before. Basically, she is a 17-year old lady.
Give Hermione a break! She was not being silly and immature in this book... she was being a teenager! She's growing up and dealing with the same things many of us teenagers face today. Love, friendship, relationships; it's hard!. I for one would have sent more than just a flock of birds at Ron for being such a complete jerk ! Her reaction was only human. Some people seem to expect Hermione to always be this mature brainic who's got all the answers, but she's only human! If Ron sent a flock of birds at someone nobody would care, they'd think it was funny. But when Hermione does it it's wrong and immature?! I don't think some of you are being fair. Sorry to be so harsh but Hermione has always been my favorite character since book one and I will stand by her till the end!
By the way, this is not directed at the person who posted before me. I just read a random post about how Hermione was being immature and it got me started.
! Her reaction was only human. Some people seem to expect Hermione to always be this mature brainic who's got all the answers, but she's only human! If Ron sent a flock of birds at someone nobody would care, they'd think it was funny. But when Hermione does it it's wrong and immature?! I don't think some of you are being fair. Sorry to be so harsh but Hermione has always been my favorite character since book one and I will stand by her till the end! By the way, this is not directed at the person who posted before me. I just read a random post about how Hermione was being immature and it got me started.
I understand your feeling and I know your posting is not directed to me, because we are in agreements about Hermione's character. Some people forget that the series are talking about teenagers, with some degree of maturity, but also of immaturity. In short, they are still maturing. Ron deserved more than just a flock of bird. Jo took the matter in her hand by punishing Ron with bad experiences (love potion and deadly poison).
Hermione is just being Hermione in book 1 to 5. She hasn't changed into someone else. Yes, she may not be the same Hermione in some readers' mind, but she doesn't change, according to Jo Rowling.
Hermione is just being Hermione in book 1 to 5. She hasn't changed into someone else. Yes, she may not be the same Hermione in some readers' mind, but she doesn't change, according to Jo Rowling.
I'm new here, and found this thread, as it is something that really concerned me when reading Half Blood Prince (actually, each time I have read it!) I see that this thread hasn't been posted on in a while, so hopefully I can get some folk to discuss this with me... anyway:
Hermione's personality change in HBP was so distressing to me that it made me not like the whole book - which is a real shame as Book 6 has a wealth of information in it.
muggleview said:
I know that Hermione, Ron, Harry and the other students are teenagers, but that doesn't mean that they don't have individual personalities. Just because a person is growing and maturing, they don't suddenly just change who theyare.The past will affect their future, and it seems as if Hermione has totally forgotten herself and her past.
In response to Only_N_fairyTales, I have to disagree with your comments that Hermione is just
We are talking about how Hermione delt with these situations, not how you, the "typical female" or anyone else dealt with/would deal with them. If you look at how Hermione acted in books 1-5 and contrast it with book six, you see a marked difference in her behaviour and way of dealing with things.
I honestly think she would have been even more stable in HBP, as there wasn't an openly hostile threat affecting the school (take for example the Basilisk and Heir running loose in book two, a werewolf and escaped prisoner on the loose in book three, death eaters on the loose in book four) in this book.
It seems that the sixth year would have been easy sailing for her - she could focus on school and her studies without having to play detective to help Harry out. Instead, she starts acting totally out of character - exhibiting behaviours and personality traits that had not been expressed before: she isn't as interested in her studies as previously, she doesn't do as well in subjects that she excelled in, she isn't into social justice causes, she shows petty and vindictive traits that are totally different from her wise demeanor, she is more selfish instead of being selfless and caring, she compromises her personal beliefs to achieve a silly/simple goal and more.
I think this behaviour change is really important.
Reading HBP made me wonder if one of three things had happened to Hermione as a result of the encounter in the Department of Mysteries in OotP: 1) she had her memory altered somehow 2) she is acting under the Imperius curse or something like it or 3)she has become mentally unhinged as a result of the encounter. I will look at each possibility as I see it.
Possibility #1.
1) Hermione had her memory altered in the confrontation in the DoM:
p.792 American edition Paperback:
I am not sure what sort of curse this was, but I think it is important to note that this is a case of a silent spell cast by a Death Eater.
I also think it is important that we saw purple flames in Snape's protection of the Philosopher's Stone in book two. There was purple flame blocking the way back while black flame blocked the passage forward. The potion (whatever it was) that was in the end bottle on the right was what allowed one to pass through the purple flames unharmed. Since we don't know what spell created the purple flames protecting the stone, and we don't know the contents of that bottle, we can't be sure whether or not that is helpful to figuring out what Hermione was hit with in the DoM.
I think it is important that Snape is very good at both Potions and Magic/Curses and was a Death Eater - as it increases the likelyhood that the purple flames he created are similar to the spell used against Hermione. Whatever spell created those flames must have been strong and advanced, as it was used to protect a very valuable artifact from the Dark Lord - and we have seen evidence of Snape's ability to create spells that harm others.
Possibility #2.
she is acting under the Imperius curse or something like it
The HP lexicon defines the Imperius curse as:
We know from books four and five that the Imperius curse was widely used by the Death Eaters during Voldemort's last reign of power. It seems likely that he would use such a good tool again. The fact that it is easy enough for compitent school-aged individuals to cast it (Malfoy cast it successfully twice in HBP) and it was covered in fourth year DADA, seems that it could be a real possibility.
I think that Malfoy could have (and likely would have) cast the spell on Hermione if he knew he could get away with it - after all, Hermione and Draco have a real dislike of each other. What better way for Draco to "get back" at Hermione for her independence, trustworthiness, honor, competence, skill and other traits that he resented in her than for him to take control of her and manipulate her so that she acted like a shallow, petty, average, stereotypical or scholastically incompitent female? Can't think of one off hand...
Possibility #3.
she has become mentally unhinged as a result of the encounter
Well, this is a possibility... maybe having Sirius die was the last in a series of stressful events that just set her off... But that doesn't really explain how at the end of OotP she seems normal, but then in HBP she is this hormonal, petty, selfish, shallow person.
I don't think that much could happen over the short summer vacation... which also makes me wonder - her parents are in the medical profession, eh? (Yeh, yeh, I know they are dentists, which isn't technically a doctor - but still) Don't you think they would notice these changes in their daughter? Don't you think a stark personality change like this would prompt them to get her help? Wouldn't such a drastic change in expressed traits be seen as signs of depression or other mental problems? I think that if she had acted like this at home, she would have at least been sent to a Muggle Psychologist or Psychiatrist for therapy.
I think that what we see from Hermione in HBP is a combination of #1 and #2.
Any comments you guys?
Hermione's personality change in HBP was so distressing to me that it made me not like the whole book - which is a real shame as Book 6 has a wealth of information in it.
muggleview said:
QUOTE
Some people forget that the series are talking about teenagers, with some degree of maturity, but also of immaturity. In short, they are still maturing.
I know that Hermione, Ron, Harry and the other students are teenagers, but that doesn't mean that they don't have individual personalities. Just because a person is growing and maturing, they don't suddenly just change who theyare.The past will affect their future, and it seems as if Hermione has totally forgotten herself and her past.
In response to Only_N_fairyTales, I have to disagree with your comments that Hermione is just
QUOTE
She's growing up and dealing with the same things many of us teenagers face today. Love, friendship, relationships; it's hard ...Her reaction was only human. Some people seem to expect Hermione to always be this mature brainic who's got all the answers, but she's only human!
We are talking about how Hermione delt with these situations, not how you, the "typical female" or anyone else dealt with/would deal with them. If you look at how Hermione acted in books 1-5 and contrast it with book six, you see a marked difference in her behaviour and way of dealing with things.
I honestly think she would have been even more stable in HBP, as there wasn't an openly hostile threat affecting the school (take for example the Basilisk and Heir running loose in book two, a werewolf and escaped prisoner on the loose in book three, death eaters on the loose in book four) in this book.
It seems that the sixth year would have been easy sailing for her - she could focus on school and her studies without having to play detective to help Harry out. Instead, she starts acting totally out of character - exhibiting behaviours and personality traits that had not been expressed before: she isn't as interested in her studies as previously, she doesn't do as well in subjects that she excelled in, she isn't into social justice causes, she shows petty and vindictive traits that are totally different from her wise demeanor, she is more selfish instead of being selfless and caring, she compromises her personal beliefs to achieve a silly/simple goal and more.
I think this behaviour change is really important.
Reading HBP made me wonder if one of three things had happened to Hermione as a result of the encounter in the Department of Mysteries in OotP: 1) she had her memory altered somehow 2) she is acting under the Imperius curse or something like it or 3)she has become mentally unhinged as a result of the encounter. I will look at each possibility as I see it.
Possibility #1.
1) Hermione had her memory altered in the confrontation in the DoM:
p.792 American edition Paperback:
QUOTE
But the Death Eater Hermione had just struck dumb made a sudden slashing movement with his wand from which flew a streak of what looked like purple flame. It passed right across Hermione's chest; she gave a tiny "oh!" as though of surprise and then crumpled onto the floor where she lay motionless.
I am not sure what sort of curse this was, but I think it is important to note that this is a case of a silent spell cast by a Death Eater.
I also think it is important that we saw purple flames in Snape's protection of the Philosopher's Stone in book two. There was purple flame blocking the way back while black flame blocked the passage forward. The potion (whatever it was) that was in the end bottle on the right was what allowed one to pass through the purple flames unharmed. Since we don't know what spell created the purple flames protecting the stone, and we don't know the contents of that bottle, we can't be sure whether or not that is helpful to figuring out what Hermione was hit with in the DoM.
I think it is important that Snape is very good at both Potions and Magic/Curses and was a Death Eater - as it increases the likelyhood that the purple flames he created are similar to the spell used against Hermione. Whatever spell created those flames must have been strong and advanced, as it was used to protect a very valuable artifact from the Dark Lord - and we have seen evidence of Snape's ability to create spells that harm others.
Possibility #2.
she is acting under the Imperius curse or something like it
The HP lexicon defines the Imperius curse as:
QUOTE
Imperio... One of the Unforgivable Curses, this spell causes the victim to be completely under the command of the caster, who can make the victim do anything the caster wishes.
We know from books four and five that the Imperius curse was widely used by the Death Eaters during Voldemort's last reign of power. It seems likely that he would use such a good tool again. The fact that it is easy enough for compitent school-aged individuals to cast it (Malfoy cast it successfully twice in HBP) and it was covered in fourth year DADA, seems that it could be a real possibility.
I think that Malfoy could have (and likely would have) cast the spell on Hermione if he knew he could get away with it - after all, Hermione and Draco have a real dislike of each other. What better way for Draco to "get back" at Hermione for her independence, trustworthiness, honor, competence, skill and other traits that he resented in her than for him to take control of her and manipulate her so that she acted like a shallow, petty, average, stereotypical or scholastically incompitent female? Can't think of one off hand...
Possibility #3.
she has become mentally unhinged as a result of the encounter
Well, this is a possibility... maybe having Sirius die was the last in a series of stressful events that just set her off... But that doesn't really explain how at the end of OotP she seems normal, but then in HBP she is this hormonal, petty, selfish, shallow person.
I don't think that much could happen over the short summer vacation... which also makes me wonder - her parents are in the medical profession, eh? (Yeh, yeh, I know they are dentists, which isn't technically a doctor - but still) Don't you think they would notice these changes in their daughter? Don't you think a stark personality change like this would prompt them to get her help? Wouldn't such a drastic change in expressed traits be seen as signs of depression or other mental problems? I think that if she had acted like this at home, she would have at least been sent to a Muggle Psychologist or Psychiatrist for therapy.
I think that what we see from Hermione in HBP is a combination of #1 and #2.
Any comments you guys?
Great, i've finally come across a post about may i say the most incredible character of the HP books. No, not just the HP books. The most incredible character of any character to exist.
OK...Hermione's character in six, i understand how some people could see her as changed, but i really don't think so and to say that she's changed i sort of take as an insult to her! She is the same Hermione she has always been, just older and seemingly in love. Jk knows her characters better than any of us do and i seem to think she is fond of Hermione. Changing her is the last thing she would do, and believe me. If Hermione had changed in that bigger way, i would have noticed.
She was still Hermione, obsessed with her schoolwork,looking out for Harry and Ron, bossing everyone around
she was definately still the Hermione we've been reading about in the previous five books.
I have the answer to the doubt in everyones mind that she acted out of character when Ron decided to make her jealous. One thing i have to say. How would you know? This has never happened with Hermione before, Ron took things out of her control and yes she was extremely jealous and upset. She has always had the control before,making him jealous with Krum. We have never seen how she would react if things turned the other way. She got a taste of her own medicine.
In the Harry Potter books, the point Jk always makes is that there is NOTHING as powerful as love. Hermione may have kept her cool in the previous books when things were going on. But Ron had never done anything like this before, going out with someone else. These are actions controlled by love and i think the point of this is that love is so powerful it can even unhinge someone like Hermione, a teenage girl who we must remember is only human.
So, what i'm saying is. We have never seen how Hermione reacts to Ron playing the jealousy card, so please don't say she's out of character when this is something that's never happened before. You can say it has with Luna and Fluer, but come on Hermione isn't stupid. Although she did get rather annoyed everytime Ron payed Fluer attention or Luna paid Ron attention. Even when she knows Fluer shows no interest in Ron, and Ron shows no interest in Luna. So why be jealous? My answer is, Hermione seems to be a very jealous person.
The posts about her being under the imperius curse or something happening to her brain in the DOM? No way would Jk do that to us. I know if i found out Hermione wasn't really Hermione in book six i would be very annoyed. Anyway, those kind of theories just sound ridiculous to me as Hermione's personality is the same as before. She had to change a little, she's maturing. She can't stay the same throughout all of the books.
If anyone has any other points about her changing personality that don't involve the fact of trying to make Ron jealous. And the canaries incident (which i loved!) it was definately Hermione all over! Just remember book three where she punched Malfoy out of the blue? She is capable of doing that and that is definately not a change in personality!
One last thing. After reading people calling her 'shallow' and 'selfish' i have got to say this is a little over the top. If you want to talk about a shallow and selfish character hop along to the Ginny post.
OK...Hermione's character in six, i understand how some people could see her as changed, but i really don't think so and to say that she's changed i sort of take as an insult to her! She is the same Hermione she has always been, just older and seemingly in love. Jk knows her characters better than any of us do and i seem to think she is fond of Hermione. Changing her is the last thing she would do, and believe me. If Hermione had changed in that bigger way, i would have noticed.
She was still Hermione, obsessed with her schoolwork,looking out for Harry and Ron, bossing everyone around
she was definately still the Hermione we've been reading about in the previous five books. I have the answer to the doubt in everyones mind that she acted out of character when Ron decided to make her jealous. One thing i have to say. How would you know? This has never happened with Hermione before, Ron took things out of her control and yes she was extremely jealous and upset. She has always had the control before,making him jealous with Krum. We have never seen how she would react if things turned the other way. She got a taste of her own medicine.
In the Harry Potter books, the point Jk always makes is that there is NOTHING as powerful as love. Hermione may have kept her cool in the previous books when things were going on. But Ron had never done anything like this before, going out with someone else. These are actions controlled by love and i think the point of this is that love is so powerful it can even unhinge someone like Hermione, a teenage girl who we must remember is only human.
So, what i'm saying is. We have never seen how Hermione reacts to Ron playing the jealousy card, so please don't say she's out of character when this is something that's never happened before. You can say it has with Luna and Fluer, but come on Hermione isn't stupid. Although she did get rather annoyed everytime Ron payed Fluer attention or Luna paid Ron attention. Even when she knows Fluer shows no interest in Ron, and Ron shows no interest in Luna. So why be jealous? My answer is, Hermione seems to be a very jealous person.
The posts about her being under the imperius curse or something happening to her brain in the DOM? No way would Jk do that to us. I know if i found out Hermione wasn't really Hermione in book six i would be very annoyed. Anyway, those kind of theories just sound ridiculous to me as Hermione's personality is the same as before. She had to change a little, she's maturing. She can't stay the same throughout all of the books.
If anyone has any other points about her changing personality that don't involve the fact of trying to make Ron jealous. And the canaries incident (which i loved!) it was definately Hermione all over! Just remember book three where she punched Malfoy out of the blue? She is capable of doing that and that is definately not a change in personality!
One last thing. After reading people calling her 'shallow' and 'selfish' i have got to say this is a little over the top. If you want to talk about a shallow and selfish character hop along to the Ginny post.
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