If I missed something, please tell me...
Full Version: R.A.B. & DD Connection.
I will agree with a majority of you when you think R.A.B is Regulus Black. But I've been pondering, about the note in the locket, it says that he's found the locket and knows about Voldy's secret, which is how to destroy the seven souls. So what I'm asking is, is there a certain connection between Regulus and Dumbledore? Not family wise, I mean how did DD find out about the seven items? Did he knew by himself or did Regulus tell him years ago?
If I missed something, please tell me...
If I missed something, please tell me...
I have no idea. I wouldn't doubt it though. Regulus might have found out on his own or something and told Dumbledore who he might have thought was his "match".
I think R.A.B. (or Regalus Black) knew that Voldemort had created a horcrux. From the note written, I assume that R.A.B. assumed that one horcrux was created. By destroying the locket, he assumed that Voldemort would become mortal again. I don't think Regalus had time to figure out how to destroy the locket before he died.
Dumbledore assumed that Voldemort created more than one horcrux because of his cavalier treatment of the diary horcrux. Not until he got Slughorn's memory did he know how many horcruxes Voldemort created.
Dumbledore assumed that Voldemort created more than one horcrux because of his cavalier treatment of the diary horcrux. Not until he got Slughorn's memory did he know how many horcruxes Voldemort created.
| QUOTE (mcgonagall @ Jul 25 2005, 03:51 PM) |
| I think R.A.B. (or Regalus Black) knew that Voldemort had created a horcrux. From the note written, I assume that R.A.B. assumed that one horcrux was created. By destroying the locket, he assumed that Voldemort would become mortal again. I don't think Regalus had time to figure out how to destroy the locket before he died. Dumbledore assumed that Voldemort created more than one horcrux because of his cavalier treatment of the diary horcrux. Not until he got Slughorn's memory did he know how many horcruxes Voldemort created. |
I totally agree with you.
I still don't get how Regulus figured out how he created horcruxes and where they were, though.
Sirius said Regulues wasn't all that smart, so it doesn't really fit his character. I still think it is him because JKR said she didn't want to introduce new characters and she wanted to wrap things up. Regulus Alphard Black is the only character with initials R.A.B.
One question: What if it was someone in the Bones family? Though I still agree it was Regulus. Sirius said he got in too far then paniced and was killed by Voldemort on his orders. he panicked about what he was being asked to do. Is it possible Dumbledore told him about the horcruxes or a horcrux, being the locket? Went to get it and got past the potion, replaced it with the fake along with letter, went back to Grimmauld Place, but couldn't destroy it...thus keeping it hidden until the Order showed up to use the place as HQ THEN Harry, Ron, and Hermione (or whoever) were cleaning and discovered it...not knowing what it was of course.
He discovered the secret. Maybe the same way Dumbledore discovered the secret as well.
He discovered the secret. Maybe the same way Dumbledore discovered the secret as well.
Good theories. His middle name is Alphard? That pretty much clears it if your right.. I think that Regulus Black wasn't as bad as he looked. Maybe, like Sirius, he was born into a bad family, and wanted to make his parents proud, then realized that it wasn't for him. Sirius may have judged his brother, and therefore JKR wanted us to think Regulus was bad and it couldn't be him. If it isn't Regulus, it must be another former death eater, because it says "To the Dark Lord". If he truly was killed by Voldemort himself, then maybe he did take the Horcruxes, and Voldemort was mad that he threatened to make him mortal. The horcrux may be the locket they found in OotP, that would make sense. Thats also a plus that Harry did get the house in his posession, because then Bellatrix could have returned the locket to Voldemort.
Ok you guys, this thread is for discussing the possible relationship between Regulus Black, whom the creator believes to be RAB, and Dumbledore, and that effect on the story etc.
This is not for discussing candidates for RAB, because we already have a thread for that.
So try to keep this on topic and not turn this into a duplicate, or else it'll have to be locked.
This is not for discussing candidates for RAB, because we already have a thread for that.
So try to keep this on topic and not turn this into a duplicate, or else it'll have to be locked.
.....then the relationship with Regulus and Dumbledore might have or might not have existed. If there was, why would Dumbledore go searching for the next horcrux? To answer my own question, he might not have known which horcrux. For it to have existed, the relationship, then he possibly would have told somebody about him. Didn't even tell his brother Sirius about it. He could have told Snape, who knows! Wouldn't Dumbledore know about the locket in Grimmauld Place if he knew Regulus?
I don't think there was a relationship between Regulus and DD. Here's why:
1. Regulus may have known that there was a horcrux, and probably thought he had it, but remember, no one that DD or even Slughorn had ever known of had ever made multiple horcruxes. The locket, is also probably still intact, and probably missing, having been sold off with other family treasures by Mundungus.
2. DD learned of the horcrux "probably" when he realized that Harry had LV's powers and contact with his thoughts... (I'm of the Harry is a horcrux believers) Even if you don't believe that, then he knew when the diary showed up. He needed Slughorn to give up the specifics, of how many, so he got no information from Regulus.
1. Regulus may have known that there was a horcrux, and probably thought he had it, but remember, no one that DD or even Slughorn had ever known of had ever made multiple horcruxes. The locket, is also probably still intact, and probably missing, having been sold off with other family treasures by Mundungus.
2. DD learned of the horcrux "probably" when he realized that Harry had LV's powers and contact with his thoughts... (I'm of the Harry is a horcrux believers) Even if you don't believe that, then he knew when the diary showed up. He needed Slughorn to give up the specifics, of how many, so he got no information from Regulus.
I agree...now...I guess there really couldn't have been a relationship. Regulus might have found out on his own or saw Voldemort doing it. Sirius said he wasn't smart...so maybe he just happened to be in the right place at the right time to see Voldemort create the horcrux.
I also agree that Harry is a horcrux, or maybe his scar or whatever...but thats for a different thread!
I also agree that Harry is a horcrux, or maybe his scar or whatever...but thats for a different thread!
I doubt that there is an connection between Regulus Black and Dumbledore. Regulus was a Death Eater that was killed by Voldemort and even Sirius Black was thought to be in league with Voldemort until Harry uncovered the truth in "Prisoner of Azkaban". So I seriously doubt that Dumbledore had ever had any conversations with Regulus Black.
When Dumbledore and Harry had arrived at the cave, Dd didn't even know what the horcrux would be. After finding the locket at the bottom of the stone basin, he then surmised that that must be the horcrux. I believe that Dumbledore discovered the cave as he had explained to Harry--he had been researching Tom Riddles past for clues and stumbled upon the cave where Riddle had terrorized other children when he was a child.
As a corrollary to that, I think it incredibly unlikely that Regulus Black thought that there was more than one Horcrux. It is clear from the note in the fake locket that he felt if he destroyed locket horcrux that Voldemort would be mortal.
Dumbledore only found out about the six Horcruxes (with one piece of soul still remaining in Voldemort himself for a total of seven pieces) when Harry retrieved the memory from Professor Slughorn.
When Dumbledore and Harry had arrived at the cave, Dd didn't even know what the horcrux would be. After finding the locket at the bottom of the stone basin, he then surmised that that must be the horcrux. I believe that Dumbledore discovered the cave as he had explained to Harry--he had been researching Tom Riddles past for clues and stumbled upon the cave where Riddle had terrorized other children when he was a child.
As a corrollary to that, I think it incredibly unlikely that Regulus Black thought that there was more than one Horcrux. It is clear from the note in the fake locket that he felt if he destroyed locket horcrux that Voldemort would be mortal.
Dumbledore only found out about the six Horcruxes (with one piece of soul still remaining in Voldemort himself for a total of seven pieces) when Harry retrieved the memory from Professor Slughorn.
| QUOTE (harrietpotter @ Jul 25 2005, 06:41 PM) |
| Good theories. His middle name is Alphard? That pretty much clears it if your right.. I think that Regulus Black wasn't as bad as he looked. Maybe, like Sirius, he was born into a bad family, and wanted to make his parents proud, then realized that it wasn't for him. Sirius may have judged his brother, and therefore JKR wanted us to think Regulus was bad and it couldn't be him. If it isn't Regulus, it must be another former death eater, because it says "To the Dark Lord". If he truly was killed by Voldemort himself, then maybe he did take the Horcruxes, and Voldemort was mad that he threatened to make him mortal. The horcrux may be the locket they found in OotP, that would make sense. Thats also a plus that Harry did get the house in his posession, because then Bellatrix could have returned the locket to Voldemort. |
So what is your theory on how supposedly RAB got the locket? I think the locket was taken by Regulus and maybe he took Kreacher w/him since there needed to be 2 people to do it but since kreacher is not a wizard, he was able to get across the lake. That's why it was GP. RAB was probably killed before he could destroy it.
GP? RAB was most likely killed before he could destroy it...but now Voldemort doesn't know where it is...or he still thinks its in the same place...for another thread...right?
There may have been a connection with Regulus Black and Dumbledore but not having to do with the locket and not having to do with any other horcrux...as some say...because Regulus (or whoever RAB is)...thought there was only one horcrux.
There may have been a connection with Regulus Black and Dumbledore but not having to do with the locket and not having to do with any other horcrux...as some say...because Regulus (or whoever RAB is)...thought there was only one horcrux.
i think that Regulas found the locket, and then when he was killed by Voldemort > and the book indicates that he was killed personally by Voldemort and that Voldemort only kills people of great importance himself. > and then Kreacher took the locket, not knowing what it is and has it hidden in his den. Becasue as it was told in OOTP, Kreacher's den is like a shrine to the Black family - Sirius excluded.
I think that when Harry returns to Grimmauld Place, - which eventually he must not only to confront Sirius's death, but to visit the place that he know owns -, he will find the locket and it will motivate him somehow....
I think that when Harry returns to Grimmauld Place, - which eventually he must not only to confront Sirius's death, but to visit the place that he know owns -, he will find the locket and it will motivate him somehow....
I am interested by the fact that Regulus knew what a Horcrux was. Apparently very few wizards even know of them. Since Regulus was in Slytherin, it seems that he may have talked with Professor Slughorn possibly about how to destroy Voldemort and then Slughorn mentioned that he would be immortal because of a horcrux. At that point, it is anybody's guess how Regulus even knew about the cave. Once he did know about it, however, it seems likely that he would have taken Kreacher with him to get the locket. The enchantment on the stone basin prevented Harry or Dumbledore from getting the locket, but that restriction may not have applied to a Death Eater. Once he had the locket, then he placed the fake locket in the basin. But when he got the locket home he was then killed by the Death Eaters before he had a chance to destroy the Horcrux.
Sirius didn't say he was not intelligent. He said that he was caught up in the whole pure blood mentality like his parents. We know from Slughorn that he thought highly of both of them and if Slughorn is interested he saw something in them. With that being said I am still not thourghly convinced that it was Regulus although probable. What about the Bones'?? 
| QUOTE (crookshanks15 @ Jul 26 2005, 09:51 PM) | ||
So what is your theory on how supposedly RAB got the locket? I think the locket was taken by Regulus and maybe he took Kreacher w/him since there needed to be 2 people to do it but since kreacher is not a wizard, he was able to get across the lake. That's why it was GP. RAB was probably killed before he could destroy it. |
Where did the name Alphard come from?
Also, I'm surprised that there is no mention or theories (unless I've missed them) about the half-blood prince's book. I think it has something to do with the fact that it was dates some 15 years ago and that's exactly what was said about Regulu's death. Maybe it being planted by snape himself on the hopes that it would fall in the right hands in order to assist on getting rid of V in the future. Part of my theory was that Kreatcher went along because of the light weight and wizard thing to make the boat actually work but he would have needed someone like S to make the potion to put back. Maybe this is why Dumbledore trusts S so much because he has been secretly helping him for a lot longer than we thought. I totally believe that the locket in GP (Grimwauld Place) is the same locket since it is always described as a Heavy Locket!
Somehow Snape must have gotten some info on the horcrux (maybe V actually trusted someone for once, since Snape is a very shady but trusted character) and shared it with Dumbledore. Maybe amasingly he was connected to the Black family somehow, maybe Regulu's friend or enemy? We have been shocked before, who would have thought that the Malfoy's and Blacks were connected? He was possibly the one (or one of the people involved) person to go and get the locket and since he is a potion master was able to re-create it and put the liquid back. Maybe he wrote that note making it seem like RAB did it and that being why supposedly Voldemort himself, killed him (this would only be true if he was Snape's enemy). I also believe that maybe Voldemort did something horrible to a person close to Snape and this being why he would also like to get rid of V for revenge. In the interview w/JKR someone asked if Snape has ever (loved?) or been loved? This maybe being the person that V killed and this is why he wants to kill V. Maybe he secretly loved Lily? It could possibly be Lily and this would explain why Snape hates Harry so much because it was Jame's son and not his (besides what we already know about James ans S not liking each other).
Okay, I guess I has more thought on this than I thought. I'll contenplate it some more and return at a later date.
Hi, I'm new here and have been pondering the green potions for some time.
And Yes, I've read the rules, and will be making an introductory post soon. :-P
I don't think that the Green potion that Dumbledore drank is the same green potion that LV planted there in the beggining. I began thinking about the effects of the potion on DD. He seemed to be living his worst memories? (which might imply he made a horcrux).
Additionally, I'm still unsure of this theory, if RAB made the aguamenti charm work like that. My idea is that LV made this cozy little island, with some sort of potion there. Perhaps a type of stunning potion, so when he comes to visits years later, He can find the betrayer and interrogate them.
RAB made the switch, with help from Lily perhaps? Maybe Snape. Or... oo. Slughorn? To a potion that make you relive your worst times. Remember it was mentioned in HBP that Regulus thought what they were doing was wrong. What better revenge than to make them live-out this dream? And then have your own Inferi swarm against you?
An additional sidenote on the potion and the prospect of a Albus/Alberforth switch. The potion obviusly messed DD up. I don't think a "sight of the dark mark" will lift him out of it. Further evidence of a AA switch? though, I feel DD how we know him is gone.
And Yes, I've read the rules, and will be making an introductory post soon. :-P
I don't think that the Green potion that Dumbledore drank is the same green potion that LV planted there in the beggining. I began thinking about the effects of the potion on DD. He seemed to be living his worst memories? (which might imply he made a horcrux).
Additionally, I'm still unsure of this theory, if RAB made the aguamenti charm work like that. My idea is that LV made this cozy little island, with some sort of potion there. Perhaps a type of stunning potion, so when he comes to visits years later, He can find the betrayer and interrogate them.
RAB made the switch, with help from Lily perhaps? Maybe Snape. Or... oo. Slughorn? To a potion that make you relive your worst times. Remember it was mentioned in HBP that Regulus thought what they were doing was wrong. What better revenge than to make them live-out this dream? And then have your own Inferi swarm against you?
An additional sidenote on the potion and the prospect of a Albus/Alberforth switch. The potion obviusly messed DD up. I don't think a "sight of the dark mark" will lift him out of it. Further evidence of a AA switch? though, I feel DD how we know him is gone.
On that side note: I thought the mark was motivation for Dumbledore...not a trigger that suddenly got rid of the side affects of the potion. Do you think Alberforth will come into play? I don't think we ever found out the name of the bar keep...I have a theory that he is Alberforth...
There's not a doubt in my mind that Dumbledore and Aberforth are working together somehow. Additionally, I also beleive Aberforth is the barman. Because of the goat relatings, and how the descriptions are the same. Search for the thread on DD and Aberforth.
I beleive Dumblydore, and Aberforthly are working together because of Book 6. When Mr. Riddle visits Dumbledore, and Dumbledore knows who is in the bar down below (Mr. Riddle's accomplices), impliesn some type of communication with the barman. Furthermore Dumbledore flat out says "Just Friendly with the local barman". He doesn't want people to know, but there is a connection.
Furthermore - Dumbledore obviusly drinks at the hog's head. He made that clear in book 6. People see him go there all the time, and he does enjoy a drink there occasionally. Updating his brother on his quest, see?
I beleive Dumblydore, and Aberforthly are working together because of Book 6. When Mr. Riddle visits Dumbledore, and Dumbledore knows who is in the bar down below (Mr. Riddle's accomplices), impliesn some type of communication with the barman. Furthermore Dumbledore flat out says "Just Friendly with the local barman". He doesn't want people to know, but there is a connection.
Furthermore - Dumbledore obviusly drinks at the hog's head. He made that clear in book 6. People see him go there all the time, and he does enjoy a drink there occasionally. Updating his brother on his quest, see?
No, I honestly don't believe that Regelus and Dumbledore had a relationship going on because if they were in contact, why would Dumbledore take Harry to the cave in search of a false Horcrux?
I believe that yes, Regelus did go in too far and panicked. He had found out about a Horcrux, and when he did, he went AWOL. So he went to retrieve the lcket back into the cave and maybe drank the potion. It is possible that Regelus eventually fought off the side effects of the potion, planted a fake locket and potion, until he got the locket back to Grimmauld Place. he right after that he was murdered n Voldemort's orders
But, to answer the topic again, I don't think Dumbledore and Regelus was in contact.
Note: My story is really thin...
I believe that yes, Regelus did go in too far and panicked. He had found out about a Horcrux, and when he did, he went AWOL. So he went to retrieve the lcket back into the cave and maybe drank the potion. It is possible that Regelus eventually fought off the side effects of the potion, planted a fake locket and potion, until he got the locket back to Grimmauld Place. he right after that he was murdered n Voldemort's orders
But, to answer the topic again, I don't think Dumbledore and Regelus was in contact.
Note: My story is really thin...
I don't think there was a relationship between Dumbledore and Regulus because if there was Dumbledore wouldn't need to go looking for the Locket wait. Because Regulus would have told him about the Locket being at the cave so Dumbledore wouldn't have gone to the cave.
Perhaps Dumbledore has been working with Aberforth.
Perhaps Dumbledore has been working with Aberforth.
I don't think there could have been a connection or even a passage of information between R.A.B. and Dumbledore. If there was, then shouldn't Dumbledore have known already that the locket from the cave was already taken? And further more, I feel that if there was a connection between the two, then Dumbledore would have gotten the real locket ages ago to destroy. I think that maybe this R.A.B. person did his homework just as Dumbledore did.
Let me add a +1 for the idea that RAB and Dumbledore have not communicated. I think what most likely happened is that RAB, a death eater, found out by accident (maybe he was present at the creation of one?) about the horcrux and was so horrified at the concept (murder is ok, but dividing up your soul so you live forever? Voldemort has gone from everyday villainy to cartoonish super-villiany) that he felt the need to rebel. Voldemort probably didn't want anyone to know, so he had RAB killed.
As for Dumbledore, I think he's been asking himself the same question that JKR told us we should be asking before book 6 came out: why didn't Voldemort die? He must've come to the conclusion that horcruxes had to be involved and researched appropriately.
EDIT: I should clarify: no direct communication. There's the possibility that RAB left information (outside what was stored in the fake locket) that Dumbledore discovered but didn't reveal to Harry.
As for Dumbledore, I think he's been asking himself the same question that JKR told us we should be asking before book 6 came out: why didn't Voldemort die? He must've come to the conclusion that horcruxes had to be involved and researched appropriately.
EDIT: I should clarify: no direct communication. There's the possibility that RAB left information (outside what was stored in the fake locket) that Dumbledore discovered but didn't reveal to Harry.
There was a question earlier about whether Regulus knew about the Horcruxes.
I seem to recall a quote that LV made to the DE's in GOF about the DE's knowing how far LV had gone toward the path of immortality. I believe this was in the graveyard scene.
Perhaps LV shared with the DE's his horcrux plan.
I seem to recall a quote that LV made to the DE's in GOF about the DE's knowing how far LV had gone toward the path of immortality. I believe this was in the graveyard scene.
Perhaps LV shared with the DE's his horcrux plan.
I think in the quote he said he has gone beyond all those who have tried to get immortality. It is brought up again in HBP...Dumbledore recalled that Harry told him and he began to suspect even more of the horcruxes.
I really don't think there is or was a connection of comminication ever with Black and Dumbledore. It just doesn't make sense. If they had indeed communicated with eachother, then wouldn't Dumbledore have known that Black had gotten the locket already? Dumbledore would have never taken Harry all the way out there to retreive a fake locket and have Harry read something that Dumbledore could have easily told him. It'd be completely stupid and unsensible for Dumbledore to leave the castle at a time when the highest amount of security is needed to show Harry something he could easily tell him in Hogwarts. That would be complete sloppy. It would be a set of useless steps taken. The entire journey to the cave would not have been needed.
~Vin
~Vin
I can't see a relationship between the two to be honest - Regulus died years before I think Dumbledore discovered the horcruxes (if Albus had known all along, why wait so long to begin destroying them?)
The diary would probably have aroused Albus' suspicions but I think something that occured in the battle at the Ministry gave the game away...
The diary would probably have aroused Albus' suspicions but I think something that occured in the battle at the Ministry gave the game away...
my roomate and I were discussing, and I don't think anyone else has brought up the possibility of this combination....RAB is *probably* two people- 1 who drank the potion, 1 who escaped....looking at the most noble and ancient house of Black, Regulus and Andromeda Black fits the monogram.....Regulus died, Andromeda was an OotP, so I think it makes sense.....any thoughts?
Andromeda? Never really thought about that one. But still its only just one person talking according to the note if you read it carefully.
I think there could be a certain he said she said connection now that I think about. Dumbledore probably knew a long time ago by maybe, from Snape who heard from Lucius who then heard it from either Narcissa or Bellatrix and then witnessed or overheard from Regulus, who then was killed by Voldemort. I know that Sirius only heard that his brother died and also might never knew about the secret.
I'm just letting my ideas run wild here...
I think there could be a certain he said she said connection now that I think about. Dumbledore probably knew a long time ago by maybe, from Snape who heard from Lucius who then heard it from either Narcissa or Bellatrix and then witnessed or overheard from Regulus, who then was killed by Voldemort. I know that Sirius only heard that his brother died and also might never knew about the secret.
I'm just letting my ideas run wild here...
Well the secret is definately about his horcruxes, and I think also that regulus is RAB, because we cant think of anyone else that it could be and jkr wouldnt invent a new character who clearly is a big part of the story. It'll just be what, 2 or 3 more years till we find out? woopy, my enthusiasm is overpowering me.
I think we are forgetting one way which Regulus Black and Dumbledore have had very direct contact: Regulus Black was a student at Hogwarts, was he not? Although he was a member of Slytherin House, I am more than sure that he and Dumbledore were at the very least acquainted.
From there, we can infer that, after Regulus learned of the locket horcrux and decided to try and leave the Death Eaters, he may very well have gone to the one person he thought could stand up to Lord Voldemort: Albus Dumbledore.
Clearly, Regulus may well have thought that the horcrux he had was the only one in existence, as his message to Lord Voldemort seems to infer. From the description of the "strange locket" found in Grimmauld Place, and from the indications that no one can open it, I would not hesitate to guess that this is the horcrux which Regulus managed to get out of the cave. Since the locket is still intact, I would probably lean towards thinking that he was killed before he could destroy it. Harry inheriting the house, and Mundungus being caught red handed fencing Black family artefacts would be a great setup for Harry's quest for this particular horcrux.
Just a few of my own thoughts...
Cheers!
From there, we can infer that, after Regulus learned of the locket horcrux and decided to try and leave the Death Eaters, he may very well have gone to the one person he thought could stand up to Lord Voldemort: Albus Dumbledore.
Clearly, Regulus may well have thought that the horcrux he had was the only one in existence, as his message to Lord Voldemort seems to infer. From the description of the "strange locket" found in Grimmauld Place, and from the indications that no one can open it, I would not hesitate to guess that this is the horcrux which Regulus managed to get out of the cave. Since the locket is still intact, I would probably lean towards thinking that he was killed before he could destroy it. Harry inheriting the house, and Mundungus being caught red handed fencing Black family artefacts would be a great setup for Harry's quest for this particular horcrux.
Just a few of my own thoughts...
Cheers!
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