Do you know which one of your theories is the most appealing to me? Slughorn faking his death, it was brilliant, you know, all the blood everywhere and he transforming into a chair But there wasn't a Dark Mark because he had no time

And then Dumbledore: could he take this idea from Slughorn? I think that yes, you, Snape, will put Avada Kedavra on me... and my death will be faked... and we can find a way to put my portrait on the walls... this is a magical world, isn't it? And I suppose that DD is an animagus like Slughorn too, and somebody must know about it.

I hope it isn't my wishful thinking.

And if I were DD, I wouldn't tell the order about it because the order would stop me.

One thing is: maybe it was planned, but what Snape's Avada kedavra was real?

JKR stated in an interview that if she had to give DD an age it will be 150

150 years old so imagine how long he has had to learn and master extream spells so i highly doubt he can be taken out so easily

I'm wondering about 1 thing... again...

The fourth chapter is about Horace Slughorn, about DD and Harry who went to convince him to come back to Hogwarts. He was hiding, his flat looked like as if he was dead... There were even blood stains on the walls. There wasn't a Dark Mark because he had no time to do it.

The fourth chapter, when we are looking from the end of the book is the chapter in which Harry with DD see the Dark Mark and it's a chapter about Dumbledore's death.

What the hell does it mean? Any ideas?

I dont think that the two has any connection

the dark mark is made when the death eaters are going to kill some one and they are there at that moment or that they have killed some one and and the mark states that this was done bye LV or the DE

but one thing puzzles me is that DD was 150 and he died so helpless was it the potion that fried his brain that why he could not fight but than he says to nalfoy that "no it is you that is in my mercy"
what does that mean how can malfoy be in his mercif he could not even cast one spell 150 common

there is definately something more to DD death

but JKR said that the next book will Probably come out in 2007 man that so sucks

WAIT! I was thinking about the Unbreakable Vow that Snape made... what if Draco's mission wasn't to kill Dumbledore.. but to prove Snape's alliance to Voldemort. Snape was never able to get the "plan" from Draco... maybe Draco played him for a fool! It never states in HBP that Draco's mission is to kill DD... You never know!

-Shannon

Shannon - I like your theory!

Except...how would Draco have managed to manipulate Snape into killing DD if that were not his mission?

You're right! I dunno how.. but it just seems so odd that one of the things most of us haven't given a second thought is Draco's mission... *shrug* can't wait to find out!

I am new here and i have been reading a lot of theorys....
From all those theories i can't help but think Snape and DD had planned the whole thing out. My main reason for thinking that is the whole fight Hagrid over heard between them. There had to be a good reason JKR Put that in there. I mean it isn't like her to put something in that doesn't play a role.
Also Snape could've very easily cast a spell on Harry while he was be chsed to bring Harry to LV.
For me it doesn't really make sense that Snape would be on LV side for real.

i totally agree with the theory that snape killed Dd because Dd planned it with him. i would like to bring attention to the fact that Snape ( and us) knew very well that Dd did not injure his hand because of slower reactions, but because of the ring. (he might not know about the horcruxes but he was the one who saved Dd) so why would he lie to bellatrix about it? So this is proof that Dd and Snape planned out what he was suppose to say to the other Death Eaters

But unfortunately there is a possibility that Snape didn't tell Narcissa and Bellatrix about the ring because it was a thing only between him and Voldemort.

But what for he cured DD if he was a Death Eater?

I think that fawkes will come back to harry with news from the dead dumbledore, because in movie 2 dumbledore said the only true loyalty to him would call fawkes to him[COLOR=blue]

or Another theory is that the picture (in the headmistrisses office)has somthing to do with dumbledore not being completely dead ,because he was burried on the grounds

Hang on everyone... I've got a plausible theory that will knock our socks off. First of all, you'll need to check out this thread which links to anne's theory and read the current posts up to my third (which is after you last came, bubotuber). For the sake of not having to rewrite everything I've written there, I just gave you a link to that.
Have fun!

Dumbledore Lives!!!

i think that's a really good point about really having to hate the person to use an unforgivable curse on them, but it wasn't that you had to hate the person, but that you had to find an enjoyment or something having to do with having truly dark intentions, not ones of pure anger.

I think that we are all saying DD didn't really die blablabla because we're so desperate for him not to be dead. WE all thought the same when sirius died, like 'oh theres another way to get out' or 'there's more to it' but we saw in the sixth book that nothing was mentioned and sirius remained dead. It took us time to accept sirius as it will for us to accept DD. JKR killed him and she said people would die in the 6th book, and i don't think the background people who died in the book qualify. when she said yes, sorry people are going to die she meant dumbledore. hes gone and it's sad, but we've got to accept it. if u disagree send me a message.

MOD EDIT : Please watch the netspeak...'u' should be 'you' - it doesn't take that much longer to type.

i just thought up something, so here goes this idea. this may sound really off topic but you must know my reasoning. i see many, many similarities between the Harry Potter series and the LOTR. in both an object or objects must be destroyed in order for the evil to be truly vanquished. there are some others, but this is an example of a similarity.

now, closer to the topic. seeing all the similarities between the two stories i do makes me wonder. if JKR says that in this type of story(which is similar to the LOTR) somebody must die then maybe Dumbledore is not gone forever. in LOTR Gandalf died, but was brought back. and while he didn't quite remember who he had once been(he is called Gandalf, and says, "yes, that's what they used to call me") Gandalf still remembered what his duty was. so, i think that because of the similarities between the two stories and because of JKR's statement that Dumbledore is not gone forever.

well, i hope that makes sense

i think the portraits are a link to the persons soul

Let me explain

in the 5th book when serius dies his grandfather in the portrait in DD office was overwelmed with grief for his grandsons death he even left to go and check if it was true and left to go to grimwald palace so they feel and see and here as if they are alive i think that the hedmasters are given and only them are given a portrait that connects reality with the unknown life after death so DD will be there either alive or alive in a portrait

Can you show me the part where it's written that the study of the headmaster changes when somebody else is a headmaster... because I suspect that you were thinking about Umbridge, and as far as I remember, she couldn't come in into his study and had to work somewhere else, correct me if I'm wrong.

Then the thing with Sirius... honestly, I knew from the beginning that he was dead, I felt it, the veil was something like falling to the other world, the other dimension. And here, with DD, I'm not one hundred percent sure.

yup you right cant find any were that says the office changed as that there we only two other people that took over in the books that is umbridge but she was locked out and menervra who is currently head mistress

no one else took over

I noticed someone said that DD's death was to quick and unexplained for him to be dead... However, Sirius died VERY quickly and nothing was explained about the stupid veil... and there wasn't even a body left... I think (sadly) that DD is in fact passed on... just like me dear Sirius *tear*

--Shannon

[FONT=Times][SIZE=7]
The Truth About The 6th Harry Potter Book


J.K. Rowling’s sixth Harry Potter book, Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, is a book filled with mystery and many possibilities. Locked away in mystery, under a veil of smoke, J.K. Rowling has left many questions in her new book, such as who is R.A.B? Why did Professor Snape kill Dumbledore? And who will find the other Horcruxes first, R.A.B, Harry Potter, or does the Dark Lord have them are ready with him? These are some of the questions that might have been running through Harry’s mind, as he “Pulled out the fragment of parchment, opened it, and read by the light of many wands that had now been lit behind him” these words, “to the Dark Lord I know I will be dead long before you read this but I want you to know that it was I who discovered your secret. I have stolen the real Horcux and intend to destroy it as soon as I can. I face death on the hope that when you meet your match, you will be mortal once more”, signed R.A.B (609pg). As one can clearly see, the possibilities are endless; however, based a pun my reading of the 6th book, I feel that Dumbledore is still alive and he will find the other Horcruxes.

Some, who may oppose my claim, might argue that since Professor Snape used the Avada Kedavra, the killing spell, on Dumbledore that Dumbledore must be dead. Also, some might say that because Dumbledore’s body was found, he is surely dead. Still others may argue that if Dumbledore was not dead, then Professor Snape would have die, because of the unbreakable vow, Snape made with Narissa, Draco’s mother. However, I will prove that that thinking is not correct.

First off, I believe that Professor Snape was only pretending to kill Dumbledore. On page 34 Snape says to Narcissa and Bellatrix, Narcissa’s sister and a follower of the Dark Lord, “He intends me to do it in the end, I think. But he is determined that Draco should try first.” Then later on, on page 36 when Professor Snape is making the unbreakable vow with Narcissa, she asks him, “Will you, Severus, watch over my son, Draco, as he attempts to fulfill the Dark Lord’s wishes?” He replies, “I will.” She also asks him, “… should it prove necessary…if it seems Draco will fail… will you carry out the deed that the Dark Lord has ordered Draco to perform?” And he replies “I will.” If Snape were to break the unbreakable vow with Narcissa, then he would die, but in the book he did not die so he did not break it. So, how then can Dumbledore be alive? Well simply put, Draco’s deed that the Dark Lord orders was for Draco to try and kill Dumbledore, which he did, 3 times. Therefore Professor Snape did not have to kill Dumbledore. Once Harry and Dumbledore made it to the castles, Dumbledore kept telling Harry to go get Snape, “it has to be Snape.” And when Professor Snape made it to, a-seemly-nearly-dead Dumbledore, lying on the ground, Dumbledore said to Snape pleasure. I think he did so, so that Harry could see Snape pretending to kill him.

Furthermore, according to Hagrid, Professor Snape and Dumbledore were fighting in the Forbidden Forrest. According to Hagrid, Professor Snape said that he did not want to do “it” anymore, then Dumbledore say remember your promise. I think that Dumbledore wants the Dark Lord to think he is dead, so he can look for the other horcruxes (the keys to killing the Dark lord). With all of this, it looks like to me that Dumbledore was telling Snape to act like Professor Snape killed him. But I think Professor Snape did not want too. He knew he would have to give up teaching DADA (Defense Against the Dark Arts, a class at Hogwarts), seeing as how he could not stay at Hogwarts, if everyone thinks that he killed their headmaster, Dumbledore.

Professor Snape really loves teaching DADA and does not want to give it up. In a conversation with Bellatrix and Narcissa, on page 27, Snape said unto them, talking about DADA, “He wouldn’t give me the Defense against the Dark Arts job, you know. Seemed to think it might, ah, bring about a relapse… tempt me into my old ways.” Upon that Bellatrix replies, “This was your sacrifice for the Dark Lord, not to teach your favorite subject?” This seem to hint on that Professor Snape compares his “not being able to teach DADA” to Bellatrix, “who spent many years in Azkaban for him,” him being the Dark lord (pg27). Also, Professor Snape was good at teaching DADA. Hermione even says to Harry , “ I thought he sounded a bit like you…When you were telling us what it’s like to face Voldemort, you said it wasn’t just memorizing a bunch of spells, you said it was just you , and your brains, and guts- well, wasn’t that what Professor Snape was saying? That it really comes down to being brave and Quick-thinking?” ( 181pg). Hermione is clearly comparing Harry’s teaching style, the one from book 5 Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix , to Professor Snape’s teaching style ,and everyone Harry teaches, loves his teaching style. All of this goes to show that Professor Snape really likes teaching DADA and does not want to give it up for nothing.

However, there is this question that has to be answered. What about Dumbledore’s dead body? Well, lets start with this, Dumbledore knew that Draco “had been trying to kill him all year” (pg585). Also, in the cave on page 570 Dumbledore had to drink that potion in order to get to the Horcruxe, but R.A.B had all ready betting him to the Horcruxe. So R.A.B would have had to drink that potion too, which means that there should be no more potion for Dumbledore to drink. Professor Snape, the potions master at Hogwarts, said in book one, Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone, to his potions class “I can teach you how to bottle fame, brew glory, even stopper death” (pgg137). All of this means that the potion, Dumbledore drunk, was to help him stopper death. Plus, Dumbledore would have never allowed Harry to go on a mission that was that dangerous, one can tell that from the other 5 books. So it seem that Dumbledore fooled Harry into thinking he was hurt when in truth the potion more then likely helped Dumbledore fight off the Avada Kedavra spell that Professor Snape hit him with. Also, on page 596, after Dumbledore is blasts into the air “like a great rag doll, over the battlement and out of sight”, he more then likely got up and cast a spell to make a fake dead body, that looks like him, appear. Furthermore, Dumbledore is R.A.B. On page 502 Dumbledore said that he and Harry were closer to the secret of finishing Lord Voldemort than anyone else. Plus, only Harry, Dumbledore, Lord Voldemort, and Professor Slughorn know of the conversation that Lord Voldemort and Professor Slughorn had about Horcruxes, and it could not have been Harry or Lord Voldemort, but it could have been Dumbledore or Professor Slughorn who has the Horcruxe, but more then likely it was Dumbledore. I believe that Dumbledore wrote that letter Harry found and signed it R.A.B, knowing that Harry was going to be the one who reads it. He was betting on Harry thinking someone else, has found the other Horcruxes, so Harry would not tried to go find them. This means that Dumbledore can look for the other Horcruxes, under a new name, without people getting in his way.

So in short, Dumbledore is still alive and is acting under a false name in order to find the other Horcruxes. Professor Snape did forefeel his unbreakable vow to Narissa by the watching over of Draco, and Draco did try to kill Dumbledore 3 times. Also, Professor Snape really loved teaching DADA, and was good at it, and did not want to relinquish it to go back to a life on evil and darkness. Dumbledore had to beg Professor Snape to pretending to kill him. The potion Dumbledore drunk was to help him fight of the Avada Kedavra spell that Professor Snape used against him. The Dumbledore body that was found was a fake. Nothing is ever what is seems to be in Harry Potter, and in this case of Dumbledore dieing is no exception.

Please refer to my other post in the other thread that you posted this in, brb.

I must ask anyone responding here to PLEASE remain on topic - i.e Dumbledore's death. Any other discussions must be conducted in the relevant threads.

I just wanted to throw this out there because I wasn't sure where to post it or if it has already been mentioned. If it has could somebody please tell me where?

My question is: why didn't Dumbledore ask Harry to tell him what was being said at the Gaunt's house in Ogden's and Morfin's memories? Since most of it was said in Parseltongue, DD couldn't have understood it, and since he was carefully analyzing everything from Voldemort's past, he certainly would have wanted to know what was being said in that house.

Does this mean DD could speak Parseltongue? Or perhaps he had already gotten someone else to translate the memory for him? Or maybe JKR just forgot that detail...


A new thread has been opened on this subject here.

hey, Persimmon and PhoenixFeather, I was thinking that too, when I read that part in the book. Dumbledore can't speak Parseltongue, and there can't be anyone else who can tell him. I would love to know that anwer to that question too.

A very interesting question...and one that I don't think has a seperate thread, as far as I'm aware, so seeing as how such discussions will be off topic here and this is certainly something that deserves to be discussed, you can open another thread about that if you want.

I had thought that this drink was the Draught of the Living Death but I'm not sure now. Harry brew this draught during the lesson with Slughorn and he didn't know what it was although he did it by himself? It's unbelievable

Furthermore, I think that neither DD nor Snape didn't know about Draco and his Vanishing Cabinet- Draco told DD that he hadn't told Snape about it and when they were escaping, they disapparated outside Hogwarts, not using the Cabinet. I'm wondering where Snape took Malfoy.

I think that DD had no idea that the Death Eaters would come with Draco and Snape didn't know that too, because Draco didn't trust him. If Snape hadn't killed DD, Death Eaters would do it.

What i want to know is that DD said he personally put the spells over hogwarts shouting at harry in his office before they left for the cave

so why is it when DD was killed did the stunning charm on harry lift but not the spell to let people apperate out from any were in the school

We know that DD created this spell as when they were doing tests for there apperations DD lifted the spell just for the one room so why did it not lift after he was struck down

There are other threads discussing the charms on Hogwarts and what happened to them - just do a search with 'Hogwarts' or 'Charms' as the keyword in the post-book 6 forum and you'll find them. They're probably in one of the latter pages.

For now, I think the topic needs to come back to Dumbledore's death.

Thanks.

i'm still in shock to some extent. i just want him to still be alive. but i had the same feeling when Sirius died and they didn't bring him back either. so i'm inclined to believe that he's gone for good. the best theory i've heard is the one about DD being a animagus of a phoenix. then he could live forever. but i don't think any of us can predict what JKR will do next.

Yeah, you're right- it's hard to predict what Jo is going to throw at us next. I actually thought the Draught of Living Death theory was a pretty good one, but I'm not going to put faith in it, for fear of more disappointment. =(
There's a website out there trying to explain away Dumbledore's death, in case any of you are of the opinion that he's still alive. I browsed this site and found some pretty good information, but it still hasn't changed my thoughts on the matter.
As far as literature (and Harry Potter) Dumbledore is my favorite character (with the exception, naturally, of Harry himself.) Dumbledore was a very wise, eccentric, and loving character, as well- he had a great personal meaning to me; he reminds me distinctly of my late grandfather, who also had a very quirky personality. I handle Dumbledore's death in the same way that I view my grandfather's- I believe that Dumbledore is truly dead. Of course, I'd love to hope that he can come back and help Harry, and perhaps he will- I would be thrilled. But I don't personally believe that that will happen.
As some have stated, it would be far too anti-climactic too make such a profound scene of Dumbledore's death, then have him come back- 'haha, guys, just kidding'-that would be wholly unexpected, and, as we all know, that's Jo's style, but I don't think even she would pull a fast one like that on us.
His death truly makes Harry see that he has to go on and, as a grown up, has to defeat LV, that he's the only one who can. Dumbledore laid out the plan and showed Harry what needed to be done.
As for Dumbledore being an Animagus- possibly. I doubt it, but who knows? And as for him having a Horcrux- I think it's preposterous. As we all know, that is an evil and cowardly thing to do, and Dumbledore is so much better than that. I believe Dumbledore did not fear death, and would not have thwarted it- I think he laid out the general idea for Harry, then exited stage left.
Sorry for rambling on, guys! But I know this event has affected a lot of us, and I just wanted to put my opinion out there. Thanks very much!
xox Gin

My thoughts are that DD won't come back PERSONALLY< I've read the site dumbledoreisnotdead.com and it didn't convince me too, although it had many intersting clues.

I think there's something with the phoenix, and that it may come back and help or something. I don't understand one thing: this phoenix might have flown to save DD like it did in HP 5 and it didn't.... why?

My question on the death and potion thing is Why did he have to drink it? Couldn't they just duump it out into the water or something, I mean if it was full of inferi, why didn't they dump it into the lake. I also am slightly dissapointed at the task Voldermort assigned to Draco. I thought that it would have been more difficult then killing Dumbledore, like figuring out what Dumbledore was doing, that would have been a chore in its self, or turning Dumbledore that would also have been more of a challenge. Narcissa came crying to Snape because she thought it was so hard. Draco's assignment was to kill Dumbledore. I mean Harry reveres Dumbledore so if he turns then Harry admiring Dumbledore like he does would do what ever Dumbledore told him to do, as long as Dumbledore claimed it was in the name of The Order. If I was Voldemort, I would want Dumbledore to myself, so I would want to know what he was doing, where I would meet him, because he left Hogwarts so much, Voldemort had to have known about that if Snape was a spy, which I believe he was. Malfoy should have at least, had to trap Harry and Dumbledore, if it was supposed to be this difficult. I would want to strike down something that was my greatest fear, as Dumbledore was to Voldemort, so I could say I defeated it, not some snot nosed teen who listens my orders. Plus, they think that it was something that was supposed to get Draco killed, and we all know that Dumbledore whould never kill anyone unless it was absolutely necessary, much less a student. And even if Harry is a Horcrux, Voldemort had 7, couldn't he just make a replacement? It is still argueable that Draco had a much harder task and failed, but Snape, being the traitorous pig that he is no doubt accomplished the task for him.

yeah i see wat u mean about the potion thing. mayb if they poured it in the lake it might have woken the inferi? idk. an ur right about dracos task. he wouldnt get killed by dd because dd's not like that. well anyways snape did the job fo draco an im wonderin wat will happen to draco since he was not the one hu killed dd. (sorry im dumb i dont noe hu to spell well).

I accidentally got off-topic in the R.A.B. Topic due to someone who claimed that Dumbledore wasn't dead, that Snape was actually mentally casting another spell, as he had proved he can. My response:

All evidence so far points that great concentration is needed to fuel a potent spell, and saying 'Avada Kedavra!' that loud would probably occupy a good fraction of your thought. Also, Dumbledore was definitely proven dead, by the burial, and the sudden release of the Leg-locker curse.

However, there are some possibilities..

1. Snape has shown a certain disapproval to saying spells out loud, and it is a bit debatable of him cursing DD out loud.
2. DD could actually be now what Voldemort was...Snape could actually have done something to his spell mentally, that instead now Dumbledore was still alive, but only with as much lifeforce as Voldemort had in Book 1.

Harry could not be a Horcrux. Although Voldemort has just killed his parents before attempting to kill him, all evidence and dialogue so far has pointed Voldemort's curse on Harry to be the Avada Kedavra.

Also, Voldemort knew that he had to kill Harry. If he had killed Harry, wouldn't he have been sapped of another part of his lifeforce?

Although it could be the Horcrux spell, the spell was diverted to Voldemort, which was possibly why Voldemort has his 7th Horcrux in his soul.

That was more than a little off topic...

This is about Dumbledore's death...but I'm willing to believe you just clicked on the wrong thread. No worries.

There's another strange thing about DD's death. OK, he had no wand, he even told Draco that he was defenceless because he had no wand. Wasn't it a bit bull****? During all the book we see how important is to learn non-verbal spells, DD immobilises Harry without words and now he can't defend himself because he has no wand? he's lying!

Oopsie....might want to watch the language there...

Yes, it's entirely possible that Dumbledore was lying, but as I've said all along, he knew he was going to die and was totally prepared for it. Whether he had orchestrated it that way is a matter for debate, but the ultimate result would still have been his death.

Sorry to keep harping back to that interview, but there is so much explained in there and it will give us some real points from which to start working to figure out book seven.

I definitely agree, Dana. Tat interview is going to prove to be key to the decyphering of the broad outlines of Book 7. I've printed the whole thing off and will be going through it with a fine toothed comb to extract every little bit of information from it I can. Then, it's back to the books for corroborating evidence...

I'm starting to think that Dumbledore is quite dead; I hadn't quite made the jump yet but I think that, increasingly, all indications are that he will not physically be coming back. There are certainly several other ways in which he can "come back" and assist Harry in his quest...

Well, I'm off for a bit of holiday, so I'll be making myself scarce for the next few days. I'll catch up when I get back!

Cheers!

Can somebody explain what exactly J K Rowling said in her last quote? My English is a bit crappy here... the thing with the shippers

And by the way: sorry for the **** thingie

DD is dead. I think that DD will come back, but as a spearet. For example, he will give sign, the right direction for the trio.

I see what you guy are saying that DD planed to die. And if he plan to die and he told his plan to Snape (because he trusts him). But I can't see why he didn't tell his plan to McGonagall (I am shore he trust her more than Snape) .

However, I can see anyone plan to die. DD know that he is a great wizard and her know that the wizarding world needs him. He knows Harry needs him. So why will him want to die.

I agree with you all that DD was lying about the fact that he hand no wand, it put that spell on Harry. He must have a wand. or was her protecting Draco.

Yeah, I'm also of the opinion that Dumbledore will never come back "physically." I think he really and truly is dead. I konw everyone is trying to explain away the Avada Kedavra, but I'm not going to bother-it would be very disappointing if that theory sinks. I'm sure Dumbledore will still play a big role in the books, and perhaps he can be communicated with through is portrait in the office- I don't see why that wouldn't work, we still hear from Phineas Nigellus and all that lot even though they're dead, don't we? I say Dumbledore will, in some way, still be able to lend a hand in defeating LV, even after his death.
--Gin

I have to admit that I've been taken in by the theory that Dumbledore may not be dead because he "flew" when Snape cursed him. But sadly I'm still unsure whether this is concrete evidence! I'm pretty sure that the only times we've seen the Avada Kedavra curse used is

1. On a spider by Barty Crouch Jr. (as Mad Eye in GoF)
2. Cedric Diggory at the end of Gof, but we don't actually see it happen. Harry doesn't see the curse but does see Cedric dead beside him.
3. When Snape curses Dumbledore.

I can't remember precisely what happened when Barty did it to the spider, but didn't it actually flip over onto it's back? Could that indicate that the AK curse can physically lift someone as it tears the life out of them? I dunno, but I can't shake the feeling that Dumbledore is fully dead...as much as I hope he isn't!

If anyone has any other instances where the AK curse is used and can discredit my theory that Dumbledore could have been lifted by the curse itself...PLEASE, convince me. I don't want him to be dead!