the idea that Dumbledore is an animagi and that he turns into a phoenix would explain alot in the 7th book had he turned out to not be dead. this would explain the sight of what was seemingly fawkes flying away from the school. but i do think that if he can only turn into a phoenix it doesnt necessarily give him the powers that a phoenix has so i dont think that he would be immortal, but who knows right?

I don't reckon dumbledore needed to be an animagus. I think that he was such an advanced wizard, he could make himself into any animal at will. After all, he was the old transfiguration teacher.

i dont think that he is

because...

well for one i dont think DD would go and break any laws.
because you have to be registerd to be a animagus. mcgonnagal is a registerd animaugs.

but james sirius lupin and peter were not registered because they were to young and they wanted to help lupin.

No, we don't mean that Dumbledore is Fawkess, just that he can be a pheonix. And we don't know if he's registered, he very well could be...

ahh i want to revive this thread.... I love this topic... first i believe that dumbledore is a Phoenix animagus... and that if he was registered it would be for this centuries wizards anyway so Hermione would not have seen.

i figure that since his partonus and he resembalance with him and phoenix's is important that his animagus would be a phoenix also. there is so much reference and significance between phoenix's and him and plus he said it himself that he finds phoenix's fascinating. it only fits that he would be a phoenix as an animagi.

again, we prove that we think along the same lines... we can only hope and wish for this to be true because like i have reiterated before, I cant stand to see Dumbledore dead.... especially such a dishonorable death.

Yes we do and i don't think jk would have made all those references and details concerning DD and/ a phoenix without meaning something. DD patronus is pretty obvious but i believe there is more to his death, patronus and fawkes as well. whatever jk writes always has some depth and meaning behind it and i'm guessing there will be more answered about DD and all the phoenix things in the next book. like i said when jk says or details on small things they can turn out to be very important things in the end.

This is a wonderful theory that's obviously been very well thought-out, and yet... I must say I'm a bit skeptical. If DD knew he was going to be reborn, why did he beg Snape for his life in HBP? Unless he was acting...? Besides, as DD himself says, "It is the unknown we fear when we look upon death and darkness, nothing more." I believe that DD would willingly accept death, and not try to come back to life. That is Voldemort's great weakness, that he doesn't think there is a fate worst then death. LV is afraid of death, but DD is not; even if DD did not plan to die (and I don't think he did) he would not try to escape death.

Besides, there is simply no real reason for DD to come back to life, other then us fans want him to. Practically, the plot does not need him. Harry must be alone to defeat Voldemort, and with Dumbledore gone, the path to his 'destiny' is clear.

QUOTE

And Harry saw clearly as he sat there under the hot sun how the people who cared about him had stood in front of him one by one, his mother, his father, his godfather, and finally Dumbledore... but now that was over... the last and greatest of his protectors had died, and he was more alone then he had ever been before.

~TWP

As for the statement that DD plead for his life... i belive that is a double entendre.... one could take it as he didnt want to die and he was begging severus not to betray him, or since he and severus had argued in the woods a little aerlier in the book, one could say he was begging severus to fulfill what he told him to do. Kind of like Please Severus, you said you would, you must do as is planned... or something along those lines. Plus the fact that both were very accomplished legilimens i believe we did not hear the full story....


again, i do not think i made up all of these theories so please dont get that vibe from my posts

OMG..I have never seen this Topic WOW..I thought i was crazy for thinking it..I think he is immortal because he is an anamagi a phoenix...well in regards to that..I beleive the same things the first post stated..because I had thought most of that stuff through as well. Plus it would make no sense for him to die and leave harry alone..well not much sense really. And when it said that Fawks had left the school..I got curious..because DD wouldn't want to stick around. Also his 'body' was burnt..was it not? And thats what happens to Phoenix on burning day.. althought burning of the body could be a tradition if the wizarding world..I also think that if he truely is Fawks (as I think he is) McGonagall would know. And as we know not all anamagi are registered...
COurtney

well if you go by tradition then Dumbledores hat should have been turned insideout and his wand snapped in half. Neither was done and as far as we know, the last last time we saw it, it was soaring off the tower. I dont think it is tradtion to burn the body, if it was nobody would have screamed and the crowded wouldnt have been so shocked at the spectacle. again, his wand would have been snapped and his hat turned, if you choose to believe the song Hagrid and Horace were singing. I believe that song was placed their for a purpose

I have a few reasons to think that Dumbledore was an animagus and that he turns into a pheonix.

1. He was the founder of the Order of the Pheonix
2. He has Fawkes as a pet.
3. When he died a pheonix began singing(not nescasarily Fawkes, the chapter isn't called Fawkes Lament) and then flew away
4.At his funeral a cloud shaped like a pheonix came from the smoke of the white flames that incased his tomb.

Hmm good point, a little late but thats alright, the one that got me is the chapter about Dumbledore dying when a Phoenix arose from the tomb and "A!!" phoenix started singing. Not Fawkes.

that is a really good idea he could have been a phoenix in his animagus form but it really doesn't matter now he is dead and J.K. rowling said he is not coming back but we never found out if he was an animagus or not but if he was one then i am pretty sure it would be a phoenix

I may be wrong, I've tried to check as best I can, but do you have to be dead to be a portrait? I got the impression (again I've tried to be sure, but cannot acount for all references) that you simply had to be a past headmaster(mistress?) to be a portrait.

If this is the case, then DD has simply ceased to be a headmaster of hogwarts. Now I do think he's dead, but the "properly dead" thing has merit. DD says that death is just the beginning of the next adventure (ok I should have check exact wording) but why should DD'd next adventure not be in the "present". Either way can he not influence the current headmistress as a portrait without being dead?

I also think that since the ministry studies death in the dept of mysteries (Nearly headless nick points this out to Harry who retorts with "Don't talk to me about that place!", a convienient way for JKR to leave a clue without anyone noticing OOTP uk pg 759) that perhaps Sirius is indeed in some kind of "lab" although thats off topic, but more to the point that death is indeed not as straightforward as we might think (DD surely has a better grasp of Death than the ministry).

If there was a wizard that was at once not afraid of death (many refs which I'm sure have been used here before including the next adventure above and his admonishment of LV's fear that nothing is worse than death) had the belief that he was right (in HBP he admits he is sometimes wrong, but on the whole is more right than wrong) and also thought that Harry's future was the most important thing (in OOTP he claims that he is wrong to have allowed "nameless and faceless creatures [to be] slaughtered" UK pg739, but that he did it for Harry to be safe), then it is DD. He clearly will ensure that his death will only serve Harry and I cannot believe it will merely be the act of dying that does it.

OK so to get back on topic, DD knows about death (I think), he has the capacity to help Harry (after death) via the phoenix link (be it animagus or just understanding) or otherwise and he is a past headmaster (and likely at one stage a dead one as well). Surely he will figure in book 7!

Well i am not so sure if DD is an animagus.I think that if he was an animagus that J.K. would have told us about him being a animagus.Since she states that DD is dead for sure i really don't think that he is an animagus and if he was i think that he would be a phoenix.

I recently discovered this theory wile doing some research on another subject… it was very interesting and I started a forum and did some research. I didn’t know that there was a forum already but here is my reaserch

To quote my self:



Now I would like to input some research I have done:



remember this quote when you read the last:





And speaking of Dumbledore:



all though this all suports the theory I an still not convinsed my self

it's possible youu know, well i thought of this lots of times a great wixard like dumbledore doesn't have an animagous, wellmaybe that'swhy he can control fawkes so well.

i think dumbledores animagus might b crookshanks after all, crookshanks seems to be around harry and harry seams to like crookshanks aswell, and hermione seems to be very very fond of her cat

[spoiler]I am sorry if this was already posted, just couldn't be bothered to search through all of the pages [/spoiler]I clearly remember Hermione stating at the end of PoA, "There have only been seven animagi in the last century, and . . ."

If Dd is 157, then he wouldn't be one registered in the last century, right????

If you want to include that in your first post, please do, but give me credit

[b]Well DD could have a horcruxe and it could be his phoenix FAWKES maybe thats why he always followed DD around....

if this is true, then dd can come back and help harry

Remember that voldermort might also have nagini as one of his horcruxes... maybe that's how he was able to attack Mr. weasley using naginy.

I think that the theory of Dumbledore being an animagus is very likely. But if he is an animagus, then he would have to be the owl going by the theory. If dumbledore was Fawkes, then how would he show Harry Fawkes and still talk to him in person at the same time in book 2 I think it is? I also think we can rule out Dumbledore being Hedwig, because Hedwig is around Harry all the time in the books, and then Dumbledore would not be able to run the school over the summer holidays, he would have no time to do any recruiting for new teachers or any of those other responsibilities. Although, I do beleive that Dumbledore is probably an unregistered animagus, just not Fawkes or Hedwig themselves, maybe an owl, but not Fawkes or Hedwig.



JellyBelly

I think it could be fawkes. Infact, it could be like a duplicate of Fawkes. Which would make sense for all the time Fawkes has Rescued Harry. logical if you think about it!

Yet another Encyclopidea query.

I've often wondered whether this is the case. We see many people who can cast patronus charms in the books but there are very few witches and wizards who are animagi as this is very advanced magic and not many people want to put in the time and effort to become one. Their are only two people that we see both patronus charm and animagus form. Minerva McGonagall and James Potter. I always imagined that the effort required to become an amimagi and the bond formed between the animal they become helped to dictate what the patronus would become. Hence McGonagall's and James's patronus form looking identical to their animagi form.

This makes me wonder, if this theory is right, could the reverse be true as well? Could someone who could already cast a corporal patronus charm and then went on to become an animagus take the same animagus form as their patronus. So could Hermione go on to become an otter when she became an animagus? (hypothetically of course). Or is this completely wrong? Could the two forms be independent of each other?

I had one more idea I wanted to put out there. Dumbledore was an outstanding, highly gifted wizard who had numerous talents. He can speak Mermish, Gobbledegook and understand Parseltounge, helped create the Philosopher's Stone/ Sorcerer's Stone, discovered twelve uses of dragon blood and much more. Most importantly he was highly advanced at transfiguration and even used to teach the subject while a teacher at Hogwarts. For someone who was so ambitious to explore the depths of his magical talent, is it not possible that he archived the (hard task to most) of becoming an animagus during his lifetime? I no there is no evidence to suggest this but is this idea not plausible considering who we are talking about? And if that is the case, could he turn into a phoenix?

Finally if he could turn into a phoenix, could that be how he managed to make a phoenix as pet? An creature that is rated as XXXX in 'Fantastic Beasts And Where To Find Them' because it's 'rather the rarity of successful attempts to domesticate it'. Could he have befriended a phoenix and develop a bond with it by becoming and acting as one?

Again I know this is based on nothing but that's how I always imagined it in my mind. Now what does everyone else think on all of these ideas? Agree? Disagree? Other ideas, thoughts and theories? Share your ideas with everyone.

Doug2222, I really get your point and agree. Curiously, I just commented that to my buddy Kelly, because I didn't like that my Sorting here told me that my Animagus was a jaguar and my Patronus was ... also a jaguar. I thought that they had to be different, but then, when I talked to her (because she gave me another Patronus form), I thought it again and ... how could I know that Patronus and Animagus have to be different, when we had only seen only two people who could turn into Animagi and also casted a Patronus sometime?
I think that, if you first develope your Animagus form, then there's a stronger chance that your Patronus will be like that. But both kind of magic are too hard and difficult for any ordinary wizard to perform; how many people could even try to conjure a Patronus? Not to mention that not many people would ever risk their lives trying to turn into an Animagus. But it could be that, if you first conjure a Patronus, that your Animagus will be indeed the same animal as this one. Both things feature your soul somewhat; show what you're made of, how you really are, what are your traits; the important thing here is not how your Patronus or your Animagus look, yet it's really a mirror of your soul, but what matters is that they really work for what they're used for: a Patronus to shield, an Animagus to conceal yourself.
On Dumbledore, I don't really think he was an Animagus. He didn't need it, and yet he might have been interested and all, I think he might have just study all the process but never tried; or if he did, never used it. He could produce such a powerful Disillusionment charm that he didn't even need an invisibility cloak, and I'm sure he wouldn't have liked to be registered as an official Animagi, yet he couldn't be an illegal one.

Well, who said you had to be an animagous if you teach Transfiguration. Anyway I guess he could be a phoenix, but could you turn into a non-mythical creature. Other than that probably an eagle or a lion like Aslan in Narnia.