Is it just me,or is anybody else wondering abouut this too? I probably seems kind of random, but maybe it might help with some theories some people might have. So we allready know that Dumbledore was a Transfiguration teacher before he became Headmaster of Hogwarts...so why is it we don't know what he can turn into?? It would make sense for him to be an animagus being a teacher who teaches Transfiguration right???.....

So does anybody have any ideas?? I have one but it seems a bit impossible.

For some strange reason i have always had a feeling that Dumbledore could possibly be Hedwig. Now i know that throughout the entire series Hedwig is said to be a female owl, but apart from that...it kind of fits. Dumbledore says himself that "I have watched you more closely than you can have imagined," how could he have been able to do this? I know there are other possiblilities...but i like this one!
I also noticed in the third movie how when we first see Dumbledore, he is standing behind a owl stand thingy. It really doesn't seem like much but than again...who knows? Another point is when we see Dumbledore's finger nails when he is going over the portrait. It doens't make sense how dirty they are...but than later on in the movie we see another animagus who has the same type of nails...Peter Pettigrew. I just found this kind of odd. Thatsmainly where i got my idea...

Anybody else have an idea to this mystery???

The following evidence in support of the Dumbledore's Animagus Theory has been collected by Venomai. Venomai's original post is located here.

~~~~~EDIT~~~~~~~
More clues and hints will be added at the bottom.



**MAJOR PLOT SPOILERS - DO NOT READ UNLESS YOU HAVE COMPLETELY FINISHED BOOKS 1-6**

EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to put a SPOILER warning on my topic title. If a mod could add it, that would be great.


The evidence I've found will back up the theories that (1) Dumbledore is an Animagus, (2) his Animagus form is a phoenix, and (3) he flew, in phoenix form, out of his ashes at the time of his burial.

Please post your thoughts on this theory.



About Animagi

An Animagus
Being able to transfigure yourself into an animal while keeping your mind intact - and still able to think and act like a human. Very few wizards are able to master this ability.

"The animal one turns into as an animagus reflects your personality." - JKR


"The registry"
[PoA - 19]
If you are an Animagus, you are required to register yourself as one with the Ministry ASAP. Failing to do so can meet some severe punishments (Azkaban). This registry is public - Hermione was able to see a list of 7 registered Animagi in the 20th century, and which animal they could turn into. Professor McGonagall is one of these 7, the other 6 are unknown to us. We know that other wizards (Sirius Black, Peter Pettigrew, James Potter, Rita Skeeter, etc) have this ability but prefer to keep it a secret, even with the risk of being caught by the Ministry.


Bird as an Animagi
[PS - 6]
Ron, sitting with Harry, received a Chocolate Frog trading card of Morgana le Fey on the train to their first year at Hogwarts. He gave it to Harry, which was the second card Harry had ever seen or heard of. Morgana was a bird Animagus. The first card Harry received was Dumbledore himself.

The only other known bird-Animagus is Falco Aesalon; he was the first ever recorded Animagus. His animal form was a falcon. This information can be found on the HP trading cards.






Dumbledore as an Animagus
If Dumbledore shared the powers of a phoenix, he would be able to re-animate himself from his ashes.



Order of the Phoenix
In the 1970s, Dumbledore got together a group of great wizards willing to fight against Voldemort and his Death Eaters. This secret organization was called none other than "Order of the Phoenix". This was Dumbledore's Order. This is the most obvious clue we can find, completely overlooked by most readers.



Teaching
[CoS - 13, 17]
Before Dumbledore became a Headmaster, he was working as a Transfiguration teacher at Hogwarts (roughly in the 1940s).
The current Transfiguation teacher - McGonagall - is a known and registered Animagus, which is obviously one of the reasons why she is wise enough to teach Transfiguration.



Re-animation
[CoS - 12]
"'Fawkes is a phoenix, Harry. Phoenixes burst into flame when it is time for them to die and are reborn from the ashes. Watch him ...'
Harry looked down in time to see a tiny, wrinkled, new-born bird poke its head out of the ashes."

Dumbledore explains to Harry what happens to a phoenix on their Burning Day. After a phoenix's Burning Day, he will be full-grown again


[HBP - 30]
"Then several people screamed. Bright, white flames had erupted around Dumbledore's body and the table upon which it lay: higher and higher they rose, obscuring the body. White smoke spiralled into the air and made strange shapes: Harry thought, for one heart-stopping moment, that he saw a phoenix fly joyfully into the blue..."

The body was obscured by the flames, and by the time the flames were gone, the table (and what we are supposed to assume is Dumbledore's body) was lowered into the tomb. It's more than possible that Dumbledore's body was burnt to ashes, and the tomb is just another distraction trying to lead to the conclusion that he really is dead.



Why Die?
"Dumbledore has had to step back a little bit from Harry in an effort to teach him some of life's harder lessons." - JKR
Dumbledore's death has made Harry more independant. Harry now realizes he must be the one to kill Voldemort - he has to be the one to hunt down the Horcruxes.

With Dumbledore now gone, Voldemort will be confident enough to rise to his full potential. This will weaken him greatly, in a way, and will give Harry a much better chance at Voldemort (especially if Dumbledore turns up to help).
The fact that Snape killed Dumbledore allows Malfoy to stay free from Voldemort's punishments, without having to face the burden of 'murdering' his headmaster, and will also make Snape more popular with Voldemort.


Dumbledore's Patronus
"What form does Dumbledore’s Patronus take?
Good question. Can anyone guess? You have had a clue. There was a little whisper there. It is a phoenix, which is very representative of Dumbledore for reasons that I am sure you can guess."
(from an interview with JKR)

Interesting, yet another tidbit of information which could be interpreted as a clue.


Domesticating a Phoenix
In the book Fantastic Beasts & Where to Find Them, J.K. Rowling writes that "phoenix gains a XXXX rating not because it is aggressive, but because very few wizards have ever succeeded in domesticating it".
It's unusual that Dumbledore is able to control Fawkes so well. We know he is a great wizard - but what if he has a unique way of communicating with phoenixes?

We know that an Animagus is able to communicate with certain creatures in a fashion that most wizards wouldn't usually be able to. Peter Pettigrew was able to find out Voldemort's hiding place by talking with rats. Peter takes a rat in his Animagus form, which would explain why he can communicate so well with those creatures.

If Dumbledore was a phoenix Animagus, it would explain the rare ability he has to be able to domesticate phoenixes (namely, Fawkes).



Registered Animagus
If Dumbledore shared the powers of a Phoenix, he would be able to re-animate himself from his own ashes. If any of his enemies knew this ability of his, they would know not to leave his body after he was killed, or they would have at least ensured that no flames could touch the body. Perhaps Dumbledore is an unregistered, and uknown, Animagus. That would explain why no one questioned the phoenix they briefly glimpsed flying from the tomb of Dumbledore.



Misc. Info (circumstantial)
Dumbledore uses a scarlet quill - presumably from Fawkes. [OotP - 37]

Dumbledore, like Fawkes before his "Burning Day", had been looking "dreadful for days" and looked like death upon arrival back in Hogsmeade after recovering the locket.

Fawkes? - "I am not going to answer about the role in the next books, which probably gives you a big clue, and [Fawkes] has never been owned by anyone but Dumbledore." - JKR

"The animal one turns into as an animagus reflects your personality."

"You become the animal that suits you best." - JKR

Dumbledore has always had an unnatural affinity towards fire, and he has a lot of control over it (much like a phoenix would).



---MORE CLUES SOON TO COME---





Update Dec 13

Solving the Portrait Complications
Dumbledore was hit with the Killing Curse (an odd one at that - flying up in the air?) and fell quite a long way down from the castle. That, with the information we received about Dumbledore's new portrait, does lead me to believe that Dumbledore was very much dead at the time.
But once the flames erupted, (and we can assume it was on Dumbledore's doing, maybe subconsiously, that the flames arrived, like they did whenever Fawkes was ready to move on to his next "life") and once his body was presumably reduced to ashes, I think it was then that he was "reborn", alive again, into his next life. So he would have been dead for quite a while before being reborn.


If this did happen, it can change the portrait in a couple ways:
a. The moment Dumbledore was "reborn" at his funeral, the portrait would disappear. McGonagall will probably notice this, but not until she begins as the new Headmistress in the next book (by which time she may already know something's up).
b. Dumbledore has somehow hoodwinked the portrait: he is now starting a totally new life, and the old portrait depicts his "old" life, so to say.

It's likely that if we do see him again in the next book, he will look much younger, with his wand hand back to normal. There will be no more fatigue or weakness in his face that JKR reminds us of only too often.


Reborn as a baby?
This has already been stated in the thread, but I'll say it again. Fawkes was back to his full-grown self in a matter of weeks – if not days or even hours – after we first witnessed his burning day.



Movie Hints
I noticed two parts of the Goblet of Fire movie which may be interpreted as “clues”. One is the already mentioned curtain-fire thing, which could be interpreted as another hint of Dumbledore’s unusual affinity (or at least obsession) with fire. There are many of these pyromaniac acts by DD throughout the movies and books which I can try and bring up when I get the time.

The other “hint” I noticed was a phoenix of fire during the Durmstrang entrance. The fire-blower blows a huge ball of fire. As it’s spreading out the clear shape of a phoenix (of fire) taking flight can be seen, just in front of where Dumbledore is standing. Although it’s entirely possible that this wasn’t intentional as any sort of hint, but rather just a nice magical fire-effect including a beautiful phoenix.

Either way, both are circumstantial at best, it’s likely that any “clues” we find in the movies aren’t actually clues at all, just things we interpreted as "evidence".


Update Feb 19

DD's Portrait Saving Harry! .. or not
This isn't really related to my topic at all, but I've heard it come up a few times in the thread. I'll try to clear it up as best I can.

Many people are beginning to think that Dumbledore's portrait will help Harry in the next book, giving him advice and encouragement. This is possible, but JKR states herself that portraits can only be so helpful. They "repeat catchphrases," and are a mere "aura" of their past life.
"They repeat catchphrases, almost. [...] If Harry had a portrait of his parents it would not help him a great deal." -- JKR


Properly Dead
A few have talked about JKR stating that magic cannot bring back the dead. But let's examine more closely what she said...

"The natural laws of death applies to wizards as it applies to Muggles, and there is no returning once you’re properly dead." -- JKR

Hmm...Actually this is a very interesting theory. It would seem likely that Dumbledore's animagi be an owl. Dumbledore is wise, and owls are often related with wisdom. But let's go back to the first book when Harry first receives Hedwig:

"Twenty minutes later they left Eeylops Owl Emporium, which had been dark and full of rustling and flickering, jewel-bright eyes. Harry now carried a large cage that held a beauitful snowy owl, fast asleep with her head under her wing."

This would make one think that Harry picked out this owl all on his own. And do you think Dumbledore really would have sat in a store all day in his animal form? Or does Dumbledore have the same animagi as Hedwig. Perhaps Dumbledore isn't Hedwig, just looks alot like her. It would explain alot about Dumbledore, how he always knows certain things.

But just because one is a Transfiguration teacher doesn't mean that they are an Animagus. Unless it says something about that in the book, I cannot remember for the life of me. Also, Hermione looked on the Official Animagus list (this is how she knew the Maurderers and Skeeter were unregistered). You'd think that if Dumbledore was a registered Animagus that he would be on the list, and Hermione would have said something about it.

Unless Dumbledore is unregistered. This is not too difficult to believe. One working in the Order would be safe with an unregistered animagus form. So, maybe your theory has some truth to it. And the nail thing is interesting too. Where would Dumbledore get dirt under his nails? It isn't as if he gardens or anything...

But see there's a problem with the dirt under the nails thing. I can't remember it mentioned anywhere in any of the five books that Dumbledore has dirty nails, it was only in the movie.

But other than that the rest of your theory has some merit. I've always thought there had to be somthing more to Hedwig than meets the eye.

I don't believe being an animagus is a requirerment for being a trasfiguration teacher.

It was only in the movies? Hmm, in that case. The only reason we have to go along with this theory is speculation on how Dumbledore knows things. But that is an entire discussion all in its own. This theory would explain alot, though.

Another point I would like to bring up is the intelligence of owls. In the Order of the Phoenix, Harry is writing a letter to Sirius. He says to Hedwig.
"I know it says Snuffles on it, but bring it to Sirius" (or something like that). Can owls read? This seems sort of odd, doesn't it?

Maybe it is just Hedwig that is so smart?

But in the end it comes back to the point- why would Dumbledore be living a second life through an owl? Harry has sent Hedwig all over the country sending letters to people. Is this really the life of 'one of the greatest wizards of all time?'.

i think that maybe Dumbledore is a phoenix and whenever Harry is saved by a phoenix it's actually Dumbledore. AAAND maybe Harry's and Voldy's wand cores are from HIS tail feather.

just a thought

I've been looking over everyone's ideas on Dd death and the theories that he did not truely die. I've have been one of those that pretty much believed he'd gone for good, the alternative seemed too unreal and well ... corny.

I also looked at the threads that discuss Dd's funeral, where Harry see's a smokey pheonix rise from the tomb as it spontaniously bursts into flame.

Hmmm, ... I know Jk has been asked if Dd was an Animagus, and if so, what form he took. She always refused to answer the question. The old 'No comment' thing.

Well, can we start to put these things together?

We know that the animagus form a wizard/witch takes on, is characteristic of the person themselves, right?

Dd's familiar is Fawkes, a pheonix. It has played a rather prominent role in a few books, so we know a bit about it's qualities. Pheonix's are extremely loyal, they can carry very heavy loads, and they have healing powers.

Let's look at Dumbledore...

He is extremely loyal (we should all be agreed on that), he has demonstrated that time and time again in his protection of those who need it the most.

He has also surprised Harry on several occasions with his strength, the first that comes to mind is in GOF when he lifts Harry up from the grass after he returns via the portkey from the graveyard.

I absolutely agree! We know his patronus is a phoenix, and he has a special connection to Fawlkes. I think that it would be unusual, if a wizard as powerful as DD, did not have an animagus form.

I don't know that it makes him immortal per say, but he may be able to regenerate himself if hurt (or poisoned) by the phoenix burning.

I also agree i was thinking the exact same thing when i read tha ending of the book, but just because Dd may be an animagus and that the pheonix may have been hime, that he evne died in the first place. Think about it, it doesnt mean he woke from the dead it may be that he wasnt killed by Snape in the first place because no one but hagrid and harry really got close to him to see if he had died. Hagrid's eyes were so swollen he could barely see and harry didnt check Dd's pulse nor did anyone else so with that i believe the smoky pheonix that we had seen was in fact Dd

Can you lot please get over dumbledore dying. We know a main character would die, we know that person is dumbledore, we know when someone dies in harry potter books they can not come back. So it's like this, dumbledore is dead and he's not coming back no matter what he could do when he was alive.

I really hate to admit it, but I really think that Dumbledore is really dead. I was skeptical at first when Sirius fell through the veil, I thought he was still alive somehow. But it seems that when JKR kills off a character, she kills them off. But, I will say this, I do believe that Dumbledore and Fawkes will play a role in book seven. How, I am not sure.

Darkflux, I think you could be a little more tactful when posting in other peoples ideas. You may not agree with something, but that doesn't make you automatically right, the same as I am more than willing to concede that I may not be right. It's a thought, an idea, not a fact. I dont mind constructive critisism, but it's a bit rude to walze in and shoot down all those who comment on an idea when you can not factually back up your opinion either. None of us will know for sure if any of this is possible or not until Jk publishes book 7 right?



Look, I tend to think it's a bit weird the idea of bringing people back from the dead, but we are talking about a world of magic, and we are talking about Dd, and it's just strange that Jk seemed to be leaving little clues, barely mentioned in passing, that there might be more to this than first thought. And maybe he never was dead exactly if the theory about his animagus is right...

1) the way DD flew into the air when AK'd, that's never happened in the books before as a result of that spell, people normally just drop on the spot

2) we never saw DD's body, but what looked like a body wrapped in cloth

3) the smokey pheonix rising from the white tomb as it burnt

4) the fact that we know a pheonix always rises again

there may be more, I haven't got time right now to research it more thoroughly, and I'd welcome anyone else's ideas on evidence of more to DD's death.

I don't understand 1 thing (I wish DD was alive, though ). When Harry visits Dumbledore, he sees the phoenix sitting in his room and he can talk to DD at the same time. So what would it be? 2 phoenixes, 2 Dumbledores? Or simply DD has a phoenix and can transform into phoenix, is that what you meant?

If it was this last theory, it would be a great idea of applying yourself immortality... far better than Voldemort invented with accidental Slughorn's help.

Because this funeral was strange indeed. A body which was covered in flames itself like a phoenix?

Hi Bubotuber_pus (funny name) I like it!

Yeah, Fawkes is separate to DD, I'm not trying to imply that they are the same person/animal. Just that DD has an affinity with pheonixes.

Thanks guys, I love my nick too

So it makes sense to me: DD as an animagus. If phoenixes are reborn from the ashes, it maybe was simply a time for Dumbledore to die... and then reborn somehow... the question is: does Voldemort know about this?

What if DD was a reborn Godric? (crazy, I know ).

yeah, Dumbledore should have a possibility to reborn like for example Gandalf from the Lord of the Rings He's definitely like Griffindor!

MOD EDIT: Howdy! Please take a look at the rules; personal abbreviations are not allowed on VTM, as it makes posts harder to read. Things like f. ex. are personal abbreviations. I'm sure you can manage typing the rest of the word out. Thanks, Mason.

I just had another thought, having to do with the phoenix.

Before the book was released, I read an interview with JKR, where she said that Harry might get another pet.

I had thought that something would happen to Hedwig, BUT what if Harry's new pet is Dumbledore as a phoenix.

Dumb, I know, but it was just a thought...

I haven't read anything about Harry getting a new pet. But it is a possiblity; and maybe his new pet isn't Dumbledore as a phoenix but Fawkes. Remember Dumbledore said that it takes someone who is real loyal to him to call Fawkes to him, and that is what Harry did in CoS. I believe that there might be a way for Dumbledore to communicate through Fawkes. JK already said that Fawkes will play a role in the next book.

A pet? Would Kreacher classify as a pet?

I think that Harry will take possession of Fawkes and that Fawkes will help him on his quest for the horcruxes. But I do beleive that DD is dead, but will help Harry through his portraits.

Hmm, I also have a thought, what if DD was a Horcrux? Then Fawkes is his Horcrux? No, it might be silly, I've just read the book at english, and i might have misunderstood something about the hole "horcrux thing" .. I'm from Denmark, sooo

But I like to think thats he still at live, but as told, the most whom have died in Harry Potter, have never haved there life back again:( Sooo

Line

Sorry for my English:)

Another thing that nobody has mentioned is the fact that DD seemd to be pleading with Snape to kill him... Perhaps, with the knowledge that he will be born again like a pheonix, DD was anxious to die - especially with a dead hand. that must have been painful. However, judging by everyones reactions to the death and the whole funeral thing, i don't think DD will ever be in the same position as he was before he died. He might have to become a recluse and stay away from the spotlight - which is something that he may enjoy....
who knows????

Also, when fawkes is reborn he is born again as a baby... does that mean DD will be born again as a baby? Or does it work differently becasue he is an animagus?????

SOmething really interesting

DD is hundred and fifty years old so stated by JKR how is it that he has lived for so long

wow, this theory really got me thinking. i thought DD was dead as dead, but maybe not . . . . .
i can't seem to find any loopholes in this one. thanks razzberry2 you've given me a lot to think about.

and as far as Fawkes as horcrux, i find that hard to swallow, because i don't think DD ever killed anyone. but good idea.

I agree with Greggerz, Fawlkes is not a horcrux for many reasons. The greatest being these:

1. DD would not kill someone. Remember, he "defeated" Grindelwald, that doesn't mean killed him. Also, he said that there were some things that are even worse than death.

2. Making a horcrux may not weaken the magical power of a wizard, but it weakens the soul. DD had a strong and good soul, he would not risk weakening it to make a horcrux.

3. DD did not fear death, he saw it as an adventure, so he would not take steps to put it off, if it were inevitable.

4. Horcruxes are very dark magic, not even mentioned in books of dark magic. Not a DD thing!

That being said, I don't think DD would allow himself to be killed for no reason, either. I think that he had a plan with Snape, after which he turned into the phoenix (maybe even as he was going over the tower side, so that he could land softly at the bottom and "play dead"). I think the phoenix we saw at the funeral is him.

I have to admit, until I read this discussion I thought that the pheonix that rose from DD's tomb was Fawkes, or just a shape in the smoke that was symbolic of something being born in Harry (because after DD's death he will never be the same), or something like that. But the idea that it may have been DD in animal form is really interesting.. DD always said he is not afraid of death, but rather he views it as an adventure.. is this why? If he can transform into a pheonix, then he is only reborn after he dies, and able to start another adventure, which would make death much less scary. Also, if Voldemort knows about DD possibly being an animagus, then that would explain why DD was "the only one he ever feared." After all, what Voldemort fears most is death, and if this theory is true, then DD is a man who can never die.. In the eyes of Voldemort, this would be the supreme advantage, since he thinks there is nothing worse than death.
However, I'm not entirely convinced that DD is not dead, because it seemed like a fitting time for Harry to have to learn to do things himself. But it's an interesting theory.

Just look, if Dumbledore could be able to be reborn as a phoenix, isn't Voldemort's Horcruxes idea filthy, disgusting and 'low"?

The question is why everybody can't change into phoenix?

Good question bubo!

And I think it relates back to the animagus taking form of the charateristics of a person. We've seen so many examples of how a person's animagi form reflects directly to their personality.
So if you think about it, very few wizards/witches would have characteristics in common with a true and noble phoenix. But Dd would, dont you think?

I like you calling me bubo so funny

Yeah, you're right. DD said that phoenixes were fascinating creatures and it sounded as if they were very rare. Voldemort as a phoenix doesn't suit me he can only create these dark, murderous Horcruxes...

WELL i thought that maybe phoenixes are like another way u can go (u no nearly headless nick said to harry after sirius died that becoming a ghost is one of the ways u can go after u die?) well maybe a phoenix is another way, and they have great healing powers so i reckon that the dumbledore phoenix will turn up in the last book and help harry, cos they have healing powers n all...

but could fawkes be voldemorts horcrux?
after all fawkes's feather is in voldemorts wand, and it is by fawkes he has a conection to Harry...

anyway, I definetly belive that a powerfull wizard like DD would have an animagus form, and if he did, definetly a pheonix.

My apologies. This thread ended up in the wrong place. See Death Thread 3. Sorry again!!

I'm not sure if this is fully related, but I wanted to put the question out there anyway. When Snape finally does curse Dumbledore, the spell DD had caste over Harry disappears. It is only mentioned very briefly that the spell ceases once DD has disappeared over the wall of the castle.

I guess my question is, do all spells wear off once a person dies? Was Dumbledore truly dead, or did he deliberately launch himself over the wall and simultaneously caste a spell to release Harry? Or, if he was dead, what other curses may be lifted once the caster is dead? Avada Kedavra, perhaps?

It's a long stretch, but I guess so little is known about the nature of the magic used. This could be used as evidence that DD is still alive, or perhaps it is a separate thread altogether. Guess you can decide, but I'd like to know what you think.

Okay, back to topic

Could Dd, if he was indeed a phoenix animagi, become a phoenix after his death? Is that how a phoenix is created? If so I guess it's possible that Fawkes could be GG.

How would Harry know it was Dd if he did show up as a phoenix? How would we know? This is getting very weird.

Sorry to put a down on the posibility that Dd could come back, but animagi are wizzards/witches that chose to turn into an animal that represents their inner phykie. so if Dd could indead turn into a phoenix, he would have needed to change before the spell hit him, but as harry sae him fly over the battlements this obviously didnt happen. good idea but i dont think it can be possible, i may be wrng tho, so dont think i'm saying you're wrong.

although yes it is possible that DD animag was a pheonix as he is 150 years old

I believe that a wizard takes on the form of the animal but not the powers of that animal

but another interesting question arose in another thread
that fawks was totally devoted and loyal to DD and to an extent that he could comfort and understand him

was this because he was a pheonix (DD) or just that fawks's power allowed him to understand people

any way i dont think DD was reborn... as from the ashes a baby pheonix is reborn and harry thought he saw a full grown one fly out

I agree, I don't think DD was reborn as a phoenix, like zainsa said, Harry saw a full grown one fly away. However, if he was really poisoned, he could have healed himself.

As for Snapeisevil7's thought about DD being hit by the spell and not being able to change... If Snape's spell was not "really meant" like an unforgable curse must be, then it could have had just enough power to blast DD over the edge (no one looked down as he fell) and he could have chosen to change while falling, so he could land softly and "play dead".

I like the phoenix theory a lot. It seems to fit in well with what we have been presented so far in the books.

I'm not sure that Dumbledore would have had to turn into the phoenix before being killed in order to rise from his ashes. If he indeed has the abilities of the phoenix, all he really had to do was die... then rise from the ashes.

I don't recall the description of Fawkes rising from his ashes, but did it mention it coming back as a phoenix chick? I know it was, or looked like it was, in the movie...

The other thought that popped into my head was about Dumbledore's knowledge, experience and so forth. If he did rise as the phoenix does, would ha have retained all his memories? Did he store them somewhere for later retrieval with the pensieve? Could he have done so and still have been able to get the fake horcrux from the cave (are memories extracted for storage removed from one's head, or are they "back-ups" or duplicates?)

It would appear that the more we delve into this, the more questions we come up with...

Will it be enough to keep us busy until book 7??

Cheers!

ok so of all the theories being made of how Dd could have survived i think this is the "best" one..DD could have turned into a phoenix when he was falling from the tower and he could have summoned a fake body to take his place...it is still very unlikely and the theory i support the most is that DD is really dead


-anto

I like the pensive thoughts, Omerus_Banning, there is a lot we don't know, and it may make a big difference. If the memories are duplicates, then you can function without them. If not, then if you take them out and loose them, have you forgotten????

I don't think DD rose from the ashes. My theory is that he never really died, that Snape didn't mean the Avada Kedavra, so it didn't kill DD, only blasted him off the tower. The animagus phoenix, explains how he could have fallen from a tall tower and survived.

maybe the pheonix that harry saw at the funeral was being born from the ashes of DD as his body was being burned.

and to take that another step further.. its a little far fetched i know.. but maybe somepart of DD is in that pheonix.

thats just and idea. i still personnally think he's dead.

That's a really interesting point, mudblood maniac!

i cant get over DD dying..its just so unreal, and besides i cant imagine Harry getting hold of the 4-5 remaining horcruxes, i mean to get the false locket DD had to identify the wall, find out it needed to be covered with blood, he then found the chain to pull the boat...none of this things Harry could have done by himself..i mean not a chance


-anto

I agree 100%, elanto, and I think he'll have to go back to Hogwart's to learn more, and that there has to be a way for DD to help, whether it's a portrait, phoenix or whatever.

There is magic that Harry knows nothing of, and he'll need help!

Something just struck me: As we have seen before, dead wizards can move from one portrait to another, vacating one and visiting another elsewhere.

If we assume that Dumbledore is really, truly, completely and utterly dead, could Harry not simply carry a small snapshot of him, or even the Chocolate Frog card he first got in Book 1 and get input from Dumbledore wherever he is? It would certainly be very convenient!

Just one more possibility...


Oh, and Samsmom, I nearly gave myself a brain hernia trying to sort out all the possibilities of the pensieve... I don't think I'll ever recover! ;-)

Cheers!

Posted on: Jul 21 2005, 07:55 AM

Replies: 158
Views: 11771 just a theory: Perhaps dumbledore isn't dead..at least not for good. What if Dumbledore is an animingus(spelling) and that his alter self is none other than a phoenix....This would allow him to die because as we all know a phoenix will always rise from the ashes. Afterall harry believed he saw a phoenix in the smoke at the funeral if only for a second. and Dumbledor does seem to be very fond of the phoenix. i.e. fawkes, his patronas... Perhaps Dumbledore is much much older than we think. Perhaps he is even Gryfindor himself..(ok that's a stretch) but the phoenix part could possible be true. and possible Snape had known this. just a thought. debunk it for me so I can stop pretending he's not dead.

I've been trying to get responses to my theory since july 21'st. I'm glad there are others out there who think the same thing.

I thought of a couple of other points to add to Dd being an animagi phoenix and possibly GG. In Chamber of Secrets we were told that he was the Transformation Professor. Like McGonagall (sp?) being able to transform into her cat, Dd should be able to transform into some sort of animal.

I do not have the book handy, but in Order of the Phoenix and perhaps even other books, we learned that Albus Dumbledore has many middle names. Has any one ever researched his other names? Perhaps each time he retransforms after his phoenix he becomes a new person and takes a new name. At least this would explain why he has so many middle names. If he has about 6 middle names and each life is about 150 years that would make his total somewhere between 900 and 1050 years.

Other points were posted under the burnet arm thread.