well i don't know what to say to that...
firstly, don't get me wrong, you are entitled to your own opinion and everything, i just completely disagree!
i don't think it is cowardice at all! do have any idea how hard it is sitting there on your own contemplating how and if you should do it when thoughts of your family and friends and the life you could led run through your head!! that in it's self is painful! it is that people are scared amoung many many many other things as well though!




the quotes, by the way, are by me...

Depression does suck. And I seem to suffer more from it during the winter months than any other time, especially around the holidays. I get stressed out so easily anyway and with the stress it makes the depression worse..Meds do help though but they only go so far. I hate having bi-polar as a disease it sometimes can be so crippling. I remember I once laid on the couch for three days without eating or bathing, (this is while my husband was in Iraq) it was awful, all I wanted to do was lie down and watch tv. It was so bad I had to send my kids to my parents house cause I just wanted to be alone.
Depression is a bad thing and unless you understand how it works it is very difficult to understand completely. My husband was anever really a depressed person till he came back from overseas and after he was diagnosed with PTSD he has moments (when he forgets to take his meds) where he gets depressed.

where have all the people gone in here?!

oh, DracosLady, i´m so sorry for your husband that he had to go overseas. that must have been a horrible experiance!

i actually wanted to post something in the cutting-thread, but since i´m not a cutter i can post it in here....
it´s all about talking.
many people said in the suicide and cutting threads that they HATE the ones that "show off" with their scars and suicidal thoughts to get attention. i have to agree to a certain point, it´s not cool to tell something like that, but i truly believe that those who tell something like this have issues and problems as well and i would never say "i hate them".
i know both, the cutters as well as the oh-i-am-going-to-kill-myself-ones who just wanted attention. in my opinion, they all need someone to talk regardless what their problems are! i´m very happy that i have the possibility to talk to all of you guys in here and i hope more people that need someone will find their way to us

Aww...Marcey. Don't feel too bad. Too bad we can't throw a party anymore; I have a feeling that it will cheer a lot of people up in here.

I'm sorry that your husband had to go overseas too. Well, more upset that he was diagnosed with PTSD. I do not envy anyone who is depressed, be it clinical depression or post-trama stress (er...that is what PDST is...right? I think I ran across it once in my First Aid book).

I hope, Marcey, that this year won't be so bad? Your husband's home for the holidays and you have a loving crew of people on here to talk to. Still, how about virtual hugs? *hugs Marcey tightly* Better?

I know what you're saying #tigerlily#! It seemed like for a while, everyone here just decided to browse the other threads. The related threads. I really think that we should merge them. Unless a person is depressed or wants attention, why would he/she cut? And if they're depressed, they're probably suicidal at one point too. How about doing something about it, eh Darcy?

Congrats on becoming Head Auror! Are you gonna make us stay on topic now? Or are you going to protect us from the mean mods that force us back on topic?

Right...back to what I was saying...which was...hold on. Right. Attention-seekers. I think someone said this on one of the other threads (see what I mean?), but these people seem to think this is almost a fashion fad. And it causes people who are depressed and do cut be seen with this sterotypical view whenever they do work up the courage to tell someone. I read a Reader's Digest article about how this girl told her friends and family that she is cutting and thinking about suicide all the time; they told her that it's just a part of being a teen and didn't pay attention until she attempted suicide. Her friends apparently told her to "stop being emo and lighten up". But she wasn't looking for attention, she just wanted to get help....

I agree that maybe those people needs help too, but I think that majority use this as a way to pull attention to themselves. And it's like the boy calling wolf. With all these "fakes", it draws significance and attention away from those who really need help. I know because I tried to tell my friends and that was what I got. Oh geez...now I'm getting all worked up over this. And right before English too. I think I'm gonna go cry soon.

End of period. Gotta go run. Post again later.

~Dianne

Hmmm. I guess I got caught up on the cutting thread because people were going in there just to say things like, "I think that people who cut are just mental." And that's mean, so I had to do the prefect/auror thing and say, hey, could you knock that off? Thanks Dianne. Being an auror is kind of fun, pretty interesting, and it's made me look at topics I just overlooked before--plus I get to know some of the new people right away, when I sort them. Sorting is fun!

Don't worry too much about "off-topic." It's not that we can't talk about our lives, but it was getting to the point on this thread where we weren't talking about depression at all. New people who found this thread felt uncomfortable posting about depression because we weren't talking about depression! Which was, it must be admitted, a bit weird!

I do think that depression, cutting, and suicide can be related topics, but it might too late to merge them--they all have many many posts by now. I did feel a little weird in the cutting thread because I ended up talking about being stalked instead of about cutting! But that's how interrelated they are! I do think the mods are giving us a lot of slack on these threads because the causes of depression and cutting and thoughts of suicide can come from so many deep and hidden places inside us...sometimes a person has to veer off-topic to find the thruth! I don't know why it works that way, but it sure seems to! But we'll have to skip the virtual parties.

Marcey, this can be a tough time of year! We can get moody when we don't get enough sun, too! That, and dealing with the cold and the snow and sometimes it just seems endless. The older I get, the sooner I get tired of winter. We don't even have any real snow yet and I'm sick of it!

PTSD--Post Traumatic Stress Disorder...yep. Happens many times to people who see the kind of destruction and suffering wars bring. I got it too, from being stalked. Being stalked started my depression, or maybe it happened in the middle of all the other rotten things happening in my life...I think that's what brought it on--too many bad things happening, one after the other, no time to adjust to anything before the next blow would come. But the stalking, I'm realizing, caused a lot of the other hurts. Anyway, I think I would like to talk about the stalking soon, if that's OK, but this post is long enough already.

For every person with a legitimate disorder there are hundreds that exploit it and create a bad image for it.

Take the whole ADD/ADHD epidemic. I know there are children out there that are extremely hard to manage, and have difficulty focusing on the task at hand. Do I think that there are millions nation wide like we are diagnosing? Absolutely not. Some of these children need a swift swat to the behind or a sharp reprimand. And some of them just need a little extra love, hugs and kisses.

I remember when I was going through my divorce and dealing with such emotional trama. I had thoughts and tendencies towards suicide and had a lot of emotional break downs. Recently I was talking to my dad about it and he said the reason they blew it off was because they thought I was trying to get attention.

I don't know if I was ever able to convince that I truly wished I were dead; that I did not want to face another day with my failures and screw ups. I was even going to counseling at the time and my counselor told my parents that I acted like it was no big deal and shrugged it off. Hello! I was embarassed for pete's sake! How many people honestly want to recollect a time when they were completely out of control emotionally and mentally? Granted she was my counselor, but I don't think it was her place to judge.

Anyway....off my soap box.



This reminds me of the late 80's movie, "Heathers". For those of who this is before their time, it's about three girls named Heather and one girl named Veronica who ruled the school. One of the girl's was murdered to look like a suicide and she was completely revered (for lack of a better term). Some extremely unpopular, overweight girl tried to kill herself by walking in front of a bus and ended up living. One of the Heather's laughed about it saying, "Just another case of a geek trying to imitate the popular people and failing miserably." However, this girl could have been seriously depressed; this is another way of art imitating life.

Hang in there ladies; we have each other to lean on, and like I said, my Owl post is always available if anyone ever wants to talk.

~McKenzie~

i am so sorry that i ahven't been here! i just..well i don't know...



thank you #tigerlily#, that helped with my understanding!

thank you SnakeCharmer74!!


yes, there are several meaning of the word!! thanks!

yes my name (here on Vertiaserum) is Katrina... yep it sucks! glad you agree! hope and reprival?? i used to think that but now.. i don't think like that often! what's bothering me, number of things!!

thanks though guys!

it´s so good to see you here again!!!



i love this example SnakeCharmer74...this is exactly how it is...
of cause it isn´t right to tell about your suicidalthoughts just to get attention. i don´t like that myself...the problem is that serious depressed people, who really think about killing themselfs, won´t talk about it that freely...i mean as i was thinking stuff like "i wish i wasn´t here anymore!" or "why can´t that all be over?" and suffered from horrible, depressive thoughts...i wasn´t telling anyone. i was to shy to talk about it with my friends (i didn´t want to scare them) and i would never talk about this with my parents (they would have said..."typical teenager!"). and i really feel better talking about it, but i knew people seeking for attention, showing their scars and speaking about how often they tried to kill themselfs...and i didn´t want to be like this idiots ( i don´t call them idiots anymore, i somehow feel pity for them...now that i´m wiser ).

nice talking to all of you
#tigerlily#

Yeah, we talked a bit on the cutting thread about people saying things "just to get attention." The thing that really bugs me is, what is so wrong in our culture that we can't get some attention when we ask for it? We're always supposed to be so together and feel ashamed if there are times when our life gets out of control and we need help! Something went wrong along the way, I think. I think it's normal to have times in our lives when things just stink so badly that we need a hand-up! People who say "Oh, she just wants some attention," usually are having a hard time dealing with another person's pain, so they belittle it instead! Thing is, what happens when they need help? They will be ashamed to ask for it! Like one of those "Heather" types would be!

I say this because I once just fell completely apart in front of someone I thought loved me, and all he did was stand there and laugh at me. Later he said he thought I was being "like his mom, who just does that to get attention." Well, freakin' DUH, I needed attention! And what was so wrong with needing attention and a little help? People are idiots.

Sorry, that just really drives me up a wall.

#tigerlily#

oh... thanks!

wow!! i never wanted to tell anyone either!! everyone thinks it is a typical teenage thing but the point is it is not always so!! some people find it hard to understand that kids do get depressed as well, especally if they are a teenager!

Aethonon -

again... you are like wow!! i have looked at what you have put on "Cutting" as well! you know what... your way of thinking is great! i don't need to say much except for... wow! and thanks a million! i totally agree... again!!

Thanks for the hug Dianne *hugs Dianne back for being understanding* ! I have known alot of people in my years that have tried suicide to "get attention" Thank God they were never successful at it. But I look back on it all now and wonder if they were in fact doing it to just get attention from others or were they really so severly depressed that they contemplated suicide but just never went through with it?

It is such a strange phenomenom(sp?) and one that is so misunderstood. I think that depression affects everyone differently. Like me whenever I get depressed I just wanna lay around, whenever David (hubby) gets depressed he keeps himself busy (usually deer hunting till all hours of the day and night). There are also many things that can make one depressed. Like I said earlier my husband was never depressed till he went to war, then that changed it all. I however have suffered from it my whole life, just did not know what it was till I was an adult.

Depression also seems to run in families. On my dad's side of the family when I look back on things, I see that both of my grandparents were depressed people. I can look back on the signs now and recognize them. My dad also suffers from depression but he won't admit it. He is a Vietnam War vet, so maybe that has something to do with it. I do feel that illnesses such as depression, bi-polar and such run in families. My son got depressed while my hubby was gone, I later found out that he has Asperger's Syndrome a form of Autism. I had him on anti-depressants for awhile, but unfortunately the side effects were horrible! He became suicidal and therefore I took him off of the meds, they were not helping at all.

Like I said depression affects different people in different ways. My God darcy I did not know that you had been stalked! How horrible that must have been! No wonder you became depressed. My ex husband did that to me for years before he went to prison *sighs* As far as the "cutting" that some of you were talking about earlier, that is a serious sign that indicates that the person may or may not be contemplating suicide. It is a red flag.

I like your bit about "Heathers" McKenzie. That movie is like so true in many ways. Even though it came out when I was in school, you see alot of that in today's society. The popular "mean" girl dies and everyone glorifies her. That reminds me of "Mean Girls" the movie where the girls kept a "black book" of sorts about all of the people that they considered "below" them. That is just so cruel! No wonder kids get depressed with monsters like that patrolling the halls of the schools.

Katrina, aw, thanks.

Yeah, Marcey, it was about three years ago now. I was working this afternoon, cutting out bodices, thinking, "What should I say about it? It's about time I did, but..." I hate sounding like a drama queen or sounding like I'm whining, so I hardly ever talk about it. For a long time it was so painful, too, because it wasn't just the stalking, it was other people's treatment of me, or their reactions to me being stalked. Or them just thinking I was being 'emo' about it, that sort of thing. But I was looking stuff up about it for the cutting thread and found a lot of info, and it can be rather confusing, but let me say this--you know it when you feel it!

Long story...

My stalker was a man with whom I had a three-month relationship. I'd spent the last two months of that pretty well afraid of him and trying to get away, but afraid to do even that. He was possessive, needy, prone to episodes of drama-queening, always trying to get me to take care of him, expecting me to drop everything if he felt he needed me (never mind about my son or my schooling!), always having a crisis, etc. He was so much work! I didn't have the energy for him. That, and his other crazy behavior. He loved conspiracy theories of all sorts and he talked constantly of Satanism and killing people. After 6 weeks my son was so creeped out by him that he wouldn't go to his house anymore!

Needless to say, I didn't know any of this when we got together, but once he felt he had his hooks in me, he started letting it all out. And it was like a whirlwind--I couldn't get used to one bad surprise before he'd spring another one on me! I couldn't think, I was so off-balance! And that is exactly how he wanted it, I now know. I'd never been with anyone like him and had no idea how to deal with it.

So, after driving the 2.5 hours to his house one Saturday, because he was having yet another crisis and 'needed' me, and getting there to find him all happy and full of BS, I ended it. But it wasn't the end.

When I got home there was a nasty message on my answering machine. He ranted at me for so long the machine ended it, but he called me back to continue! I had to unplug my answering machine, because I didn't need my son listening to that stuff. For about three months, he would email me all the time because I kept the phone off the hook. He would make up stories, saying how he almost died, how his neighbor tried to kill herself--anything he thought he could say to get me to go to him. But I didn't budge. I just tried to be nice, hoping he would get bored and leave me alone.

But one day, I got this awful email from him, accusing me of all kinds of things, accusing me of cheating on him when we were together (not true--HE was the one cheating!), all this stuff...I told him to leave me alone once and for all or I'd call the police. I thought he left me alone, but he didn't--he just went underground.

I started hearing from people we both knew that he was bad-mouthing me all over the place, telling lies, spreading stories about me and how I cheated on him, didn't look after him properly, yada, yada, yada...and he was so angry. I started sleeping with the exercise bike pushed up against the door because he was a locksmith and could easily pick anything I had installed.

At the same time, I had three different friendships end. One took what I'd said in confidence about my boyfriend prior to the crazy one and told his best friend not only what I'd said, but added some extra stuff. She repeated this to anyone from my hometown that knew me. Another tried to insinuate herself between me and a friend I had online, to get to be friends with someone famous we were friends with. The last was that other friend, who, when I tried to explain about the stalker, told me I was a stupid ***** (whatever mean word fits) and how could I fall for such stuff, and then he was angry and cut off all communications. After that, I had a guy who just used me for you-know-what and threw me away, after telling me to 'please shut up' about the stalker. I had yet another friend try to get in the way of my friendship with the famous guy. I bought a van and it died from a bad transmission almost right away, I needed $2,500 to fix it...in short, I was a mess.

I retreated. I couldn't face classes anymore and quit school. I didn't want to leave my apartment, but I was scared inside my apartment, too. I was scared all the time. I didn't feel I could talk to anyone because they just poo-pood me and said I was overreacting and being 'too-sensitive.' I didn't want to make new friends--why, when they just stab you in the back? I didn't want a new man--why, when they just use you and rob you and lie to you and throw you away, or worse, scare the living daylights out of you for months on end? What a nightmare.

I felt like such a monumental failure. Like I couldn't choose a decent man, like maybe I was so worthless that only users and crazies wanted me. I felt poor and I felt stupid. I felt scared--scared of my stalker, scared to go outside, scared to talk about what happened because people would (and did!) call me stupid and tell me to shut up about it.

So...since no one else wanted to hear it, and no one else would help (not even family--except my awesome son James!), I took care of myself. I stayed in my apartment, built my business, looked after myself the best I could, and let time pass. When I felt I could face going outside, I went outside. Slowly, I started letting the sun back in to my life. In September 2005, I found VTM. I joined. I was really really nervous! I was afraid I'd find more people who would just be gawdawful to me and I'd fall apart--my trust in anyone was that tenuous!

But people were nice. I felt like I fit in. And this summer, when I finally did lose that famous friend to treachery (and partly my own doing, I'll admit) the sting was not quite so bad, because I had some really great friends online I could talk to. Coming around VTM and being accepted and told I was worth something after all gave me the confidence to go out into the world again and now I'm pretty close to normal. Whatever 'normal' is.

It sucked. And like I said, I have some baggage. I haven't dealt with my man issues yet--I've been on my own for over three years now--but it's getting lonely! I hope that it just continues to get better though. Things have gotten a lot better.

oh my god! Aethonon, i´m so feeling with you. it is awfull when you feel isolated, because noone is willing to believe you ( stalking seems to many people like an overreaction, but it´s not. to many weman had to die because of stalking, either they were murdered by their crazy ex husbands or they chose suicide to get out of the situation, cause everyone said they would be too sensitive!).
it´s great that you are here and i like to read your posts
though it was a long story it is nesseccary to be told, maybe someone who reads it will find the courage to talk about their experiances, too.

i have never been stalked, thanks god, but i also had a boyfriend who turned out to be obsessesive and creepy... it was all good in the beginning than he started to talk about how much he hates life and suicide all the time. he always wanted me to "carry him with me", he was always in a bad mood and became agressive when i had an other opinion ( he was always complaining about his mother, which is, i know by now, a sighn that a guy has issues...that´s just not normal, though i don´t like this word.). as he started to tell me what to do ( i wasn´t allowed to hug or talk to my friends anymore, because he was jealous. he told me what clothes to wear and how i should behave. he was massively trying to change me!) i couldn´t handle it anymore and broke up with him.
i got this "helper-syndrom" and wanted to get him "well" again, but i couldn´t. he was too damn weird and in the end i got scared of him.
after we broke up he started to tell anyone that i´ve planed to destroy him and i were playing with him to get a sadistical joy out of it (which of cause wasn´t true!)...
needless to say everyone believed him...he could have become an talented actor...
and i felt horrible (he also wrote me a few awful letters).
i don´t know why but there were at least 3 people that believed my story and now they are my best friends...i don´t know what i have done without them.


this sounds if you would read my mind, though i wasn´t stalked, i got the same feeling towards men...do i have the sentence "availabe for violent and sadistic users!" tattooed on my forehead?AHHH!!! i hate it!

I know they are passing through a lot of painful moments,K.Lupin_werewolf,but only if you have the heart and courage that you could forget the painful moments somehow you will see that suicide doesn't solves any problem!!.Courage is only thing that could help you get through these situations and most important you need to have faith.When some people fail in Board exams(it's an exam which decides your future career),they think that their life is gone,and they have no chances of getting a job.Then they are wrong!!.In life there are chances.If one door closes the other door openes(it's an old proverb! ).So if there are problems in life,just have some faith and courage and suicide is not the only way to escape problems.There are people out there who have faced failures and have come out of it.Like for instance,Edison.He invented the bulb.But before inventing it,he had failed many times to create it.He had failed something 1000 times(I guess .He didn't give up,many people made fun of him but still he didn't give up his hope!!,he didn't suicide.Instead he fought.Day and night he sat to make a bulb which gives the light to the world.Some people won't know what they are going to do if they are stuck with problems and take the decision that they are going to suicide.Patience,they need patience in that case.Think about it.

Aethonon -

no problem...
wow! one heck of a story there. i admire you, i admire the fact that you can tell that story. well i really do hop things get better for you, and with son by your side they should!
i hate that to... when everyone tells you to stop being stupid but know something is just not right! and they.. don't believe you! oh and #tigerlily# ....

i totally agree!!
we feel for you Aethonon!!

#tigerlily# -
omg what a story! i knew this one kid who was a self harmer and has issues. he sort-of threatened girls into going out with him, saying he would kill him self and stuff. he was quite violent - he went around with a lighter once and alomst set fire to a few people and he he broke someone's arm... well finally (and thankfully) that kid has now gone and is now some other school's problem although i sometimes find myself worrying. you the was a time when i was trying to help, i had a go at people who called him an attetion seeker and well i guess that was because i knew and felt that there must have been some problems in his life that caused him to do such things but it's like everyone else could only see what was on the surface, i was trying to look beneath that. i gave up eventually.

well it seems the two of you don't really like men... i don't either. i am only a kid but i have decided that i don't like them.
boyfriend - he became clingy, always wanted to kiss and stuff. i didn't feel to comfortable. chucked him. we are still mates though.
mom's boyfriend - he left us after being in our lives for 5 years or more. it wasn't all his fault though. but he was like a dad...
current mom's boyfriend - we don't know if he has hit or not... it was on holiday when i came back from the club with my older sister and her friend and my twin was sat outside the caravan. it wasn't until a later time when i finally found out why she ws there; she had heard and arguement and it sounded like something bad had happened. it sounded like my mom's boyfriedn had hit something or someone.... and well before this hoildy there had been incidents when he got up and walked out. and also on the hoilday he left, packed his bage, took his kids and drove off after an arguement. he came back though after like 20 mintues, he didn't get very far. and then some time ago i witnessed him belting his son to death, needless to say that it scared the **** out of me! i can tell his kids fear him. and recently i had me mother's 40 birthday and apart from some idiots who decided to start a fight it went well, until the end of the night. my older sister and tony had an arguement and well it wasn't nice to witness and to top it all of my dad was there when it happened!! my dad is a DJ so he was doing a favour for my mom and did the DJ-ing. my older sister hates him. my dad looked like he was going to do something,but didn't.
my dad - hit my step mom once, no one knew why, well at least i don't know why. but anyways they patched things up. but my dad has got a temper.
teachers - one teacher (male) scared the **** out of me by the way he was shouting, in fact a lot of them scare me alot.

that's me done.

read and thought about it. fair points. but i just still feel that in this day and age fighting is harder. fighting doesn't always work. i fought... and failed. the only reason why i haven;t killed myself is because i don't have the guts and i don't want my death to be as painful as what i feel now. i want it to be a relese. see the thing is alot of people feel that it won't matter if they died, no one would miss them. it is a shame. and at the same time it is everyone's fault. we are too blame for others death. wether it's a teacher that has pressured someone to much, a parent who takes the back bench or a friend that losses intrest, in what ever situation someone else plays apart in it. it is a fact we have to face; people die, people die because of the world today. and as for courage and faith... what do suggest we do to help those who have lost courage and faith? really honestly... help. what can we do? we can't rewrite all the wrongs of this world... maybe together we can make a difference and maybe not.
i respect your views... Phoenix92

Uh oh. Now I feel really bad cause everyone's have posted such great posts and an idiot comes along and sounds totally out of place. I don't really have anything constructive to add....

Darcy! OMG! That's terrible. I'm so sorry that happened to you and wish you found your way to VTM sooner. Maybe...no, I sure they would have given you support through it all. I know that I would have...though...at 2005, was I even reading Harry Potter yet? I think so....

I think it was great that your son supported you through all of this. You two, mother and son, seem really close. I envy you so much. You are so lucky and you don't even know exactly how lucky you are.

#tigerlily#, your boyfriend doing what he did, changing your clothing style and isolating you from friends, is a sign of possessiveness. It was a good decision to end it where it did.

Ouch, Katrina. It sounds as though men have not been a very positive factor in your life. I hope that that will change for you soon. Remember, not all guys are like that. It's just...some tend to be more of a jerk than others. I'll bet James is wonderful, and one of many that are like him!

I'm...not too thrilled about men, or friends, for that matter. I had a "friend" backstab me and...some consellors (sp?) on KHP said that may be what threw me into depression. I think that it was that and a whole bunch of other things. I don't hate her anymore, but I do wish I could talk to her and ask her why. But all she does is give me the cold stare when I do see her around the school sometimes....

Unlike you guys, I seem to find it easier to talk to guys and girls. Less two-faced and more direct. And often more mature. Well, some of them are. I know a couple now that I have my classes with and get along really well with them. Heck, we even got into trouble together. But, sometimes it almost feels like a Harry-Ron-Hermione relationship. The thing is, I don't mind when people rub off me. I don't care if they give all the work on group projects to me because that means that when I get a bad mark on the project, I've only got myself to blame. In fact, I generally try to pair up with people who don't care.... So, it doesn't really matter.

This is a very ranting and dumb post...I don't think I actually said anything....

Aw, thanks for all the kind words, everyone. And Dianne, you may have been right about VTM, but maybe if I'd joined any sooner I wouldn't have been ready to talk about it anyway. I wasn't really ready to talk about it until now. It was weird, losing that famous friend, because it was almost cathartic. It was like he was the last person from that time period I had much connection with anymore, and then he was gone, too. With him gone, I didn't think about it so often and started to feel better. Weird, huh? Because he didn't do anything mean to me--I just figured that with so many people trying to get between him and me, eventually someone would manage it. He's a good kid, really. So when I see him on the news or whatever, I don't automatically hate him.

With my best friend (the one who cuts), I had already talked about it quite a bit and we'd moved on to other topics.

Men...I don't hate men at all. I know that men are like women--all different, some good some bad, some completely messed up. It's just that working at home now, I don't really meet men, and I am afraid to meet them online (that's how I met the stalker and the user--not a good testament to meeting people online that one later dates! lol). I feel kinda bad for the next man I have though, because he will have the task of helping me through some of this baggage, and I don't know of too many who would be that selfless, honestly. Seriously though, maybe there will be another man in my life, maybe not. Maybe I'll stay single. The nice thing about being 45 and having 'procreated' is that I feel I can actually choose whether I want to be with someone--I don't know why, but before I always felt like I should be with someone and wanted to be with someone,, and now I'm old enough to know how much bloody work it is and don't know if I can be bothered.

It was good hearing some other troubles you guys have had. Not that I want you to have troubles! But in a way, maybe it's good you met people like that early in life. It'll help you to see the signs the next time someone acts that way and you can avoid them. That was the altercation I had with that one friend--he wondered how some 'my age' could be so ignorant about men! Well, geez...maybe because the guys I've been with have been fairly decent? Durh! I hate it when people think you should know something just because of the age you are. Not everyone experiences things on the same timeline. What an idiot.

But I am glad you broke free from those possessive people. People like that generally have self-esteem problems and problems with trust. Their possessiveness comes from fearing you'll leave them--abandonment issues. And yes! Yes! Yes! The 'trying to help messed-up guys thing!' I know exactly what you mean by that, because I used to be that way, too. It took me forever to learn that I couldn't solve anyone's problems but my own. I can advise, but I can't 'fix' it--that always has to come from within.

Thank you,K.Lupin_werewolf . I'm not trying to change your point of view about suicide but I'm only saying it from my experience..



I have already wriiten in my last post that,don't leave your courage whatever happens..But yes,we can't do anything for those people who have lost it.I too agree with it..

Aethonon,I nearly cried after I finished reading your story .In fact,I still couldn't get over with it.I'm glad you opened your heart and spilled all your worries and past!!.It really needs trust and faith to write it down!and I am glad that you trusted us here in VTM.You didn't know that your guy was a liar and a cheat before you started going out with him??.I'm happy that you have your son to forget them.How did you forget these happenings,burying deep under your heart?.You actually raised the respect I usually have for elders..I salute to you ,Aethnon..and I want give you hug.. ...

Thanks Phoenix92. It was kinda hard to do, really, but I felt it was time I talked about it. People I've emailed with here for awhile can tell you I hardly mention it at all.

Nope, I didn't know it about him. I have found it to be a big drawback in meeting someone online. They present themselves in a certain way, and you present yourself as you are. If you're naive, like I was, you think they've presented themselves as they are, which isn't always the case.

Back in the old days, girls weren't encouraged to speak to men they hadn't been introduced to. Being introduced meant you were meeting that person through a person you both knew. There was already that trust that your mutual friend or acquaintance knew both of you and found both of you to be decent people. If you meet someone online, you are meeting only them. You don't necessarily know anyone they know and they can tell you anything they want you to hear and leave out anything bad.

But I've always had a really bad habit of rushing romance! It's like I am so pleased that someone likes me that I do everything I can to make them like me even more! Instead of being careful, and making sure this is someone of moral fiber, someone who can be kind under stress, I just rush right in. By the time I realize what they are really like, I've already committed myself pretty deeply! I find myself making excuses for them. It's all-around unhealthy!

If there are good things I've learned from the experience, it's that I'm worth taking the time for. I am worth taking care of, and I will put myself first in the beginnings, and take things very slowly from now on. I will pay attention to those small things that trouble me at the beginning of relationships. There may be times I over-react to something, but better to over-react in the beginning than to mess it up for later by ignoring it.

What's that line?

Constant Vigilence! LOL

Because really, in the end, you are your best protector. You need to take care of yourself first, so you can care for others.

I had to double check to make sure I didn't change my name to Aethonon. This sounds like me in a nutshell. I was always so flattered when a guy would express interest in me that I bent over backwards to make to keep his interest. I knew I was in a horrible relationship with my husband but I thought 'This is as good as it's going to get so you better hang in there' so many times that it took him throwing me out to realize I was better off without him.

I too had to smell the coffee and wake up and realize that I am a precious gem and that if anyone wants to be with me, they have to earn it. They had to prove to me that they're worth my time and effort. Probably too far across the spectrum, but I think I have balanced the scales as of late.

I had a stalker once but nothing as vicious and scary as yours Darcy. This was a guy who I used to work with who thought that just because I had dated a guy I was working with that I would date all of them and then grew upset when I rejected him. I had a job at the local mall and would find him standing by my car when I closed, or walking around the mall during my shift. I took to having mall security escort me to my car and/or had a bunch of male friends pick up and take me home. He even followed me home one night and sat outside my house watching my bedroom window.

Finally I called the police and they told me since he had not assulted me they couldn't do anything about it. Apparently feeling creeped out and violated is not enough to get a restraining order on someone.

This went on for a few months until he caught wind that I was seeing someone. I never saw him again after that.

Now I am trying to buy a house and I figure that after I get settled and learn to live independently then I will see about starting a relationship. Hey, I'm still young, but old enough to enjoy myself.

I also have to say that the last yahoo I dated was an introduction from a friend of mine from church. She had told me he was a Christian single dad, nice guy who was looking for a nice Christian woman. Well, we met and didn't last very long because he was too interested in going too far. After he found out I didn't want to do that, he blew me off.

There are bad men out there just like there are bad women; that's why God gave us intuition and common sense. If we use them wisely, we can come out ahead of the game.

Wow there are some amazing yet somewhat saddening stories here! I thought that I had dated some doozies in my day. The only problem that I ever really had with a stalker type was my ex husband before he got busted and sent to prison for 25 plus years.

I was married to my current husband David and pregnant with my daughter Jenna. Well I worked the night shift at Wal-Mart and one night I was working in my dept witha co-worker of mine. My ex comes up to me and starts threatening me, wanting to know where his "son" was at and how he was going to take him. Now my son Jud is my child with him but he was never a father at all to Jud. David has raised Jud since age 6, and he's now 13. Well I told the ex that Jud was at home with his "father" (David) he went ballistic and came at me and threatened to "beat me down" well thank God my co-worker was there she stepped in between us and told him to back off or she would call the manager and have the police up there in a heart beat. Well he was high on drugs and stuff and got scared off. Me and my co-worker went and called the manager and told him what had happened. Him and a couple of the guys looked for my ex, I then called David, he came right over, but too late the ex bolted out of there after writing like $700.00 worth of bad checks. It was quite scary, but the ex had done things like that to me ever since I had left him in 1993. I was really glad when he got sent to prison. I did not need him and neither did my son.

He won't even consent to allow David to adopt Jud, it seems that in Virginia a biological father has the right, even if he is incarcerated to stop an adoption. That is bull, uh hello? I thought once you were in prison you lost all rights?Apparantly not in the case of adoption. And this is the sdame bozo that tried to abolish his parental rights years before cause he did not want to pay child support to me or on the other 4 kids he had sired.*sighs* Men, they are like used cars sometimes you hafta try out a bunch of lemons before you find one that actually "runs" right.

I am so glad I found David. He has helped me in so many ways, and stood by me through thick and thin good and bad. So ladies for those of you that have had crappy boyfriends, ex husbands, celebrity like stalkers, kudos to you for dumping the slime balls! We women are too precious and good to put up with that ****!

hehe...nice to hear that from someone who found a decent guy!
i already told you this, pages of posts ago, but you are blessed with your husband and it keeps up my faith to maybe find a "fitting" one for me lol.
i´m sorry for your son, but it´s great that he has a true father-son-relationship with your husband now. it´s awful that your ex is against the adoption...i mean what kind of laws are that, which let him do this?

isn´t it horrible how many girls and women have experiances with stalkers or violent users?!
i can understand why K.Lupin_werewolf has this attitude towards men. how shall you build up trust when you only know violent or unrelyable guys?! this is really making me sick.
i know there are bad women as well, but i don´t need to date them lol. i knew some women that treated their boyfriends and husbands very rude and i never understood that. i wouldn´t treat someone like that, especially when i´m in love with him!

I think your stalker experiences were pretty darn scary, too, ladies! At least mine lived 2.5 hours away! The things I read online about it said that 1 in 12 women have it happen sometime in their life, and 1 in 45 men. Reading that stuff helped me somewhat, too. I never really thought about the pattern he had--it was classic!

1st phase--I want you, I need you, let's be in love, let me rule your life. Let me call you day and night with my problems, let me tell you how to live, what to think, let me insinuate myself into your every thought. You don't like how I do this? This is why I do it this way and you should accept it. I've murdered people, you know...I murdered them for the Satanists who had me under mind control...if I get too stressed I might go out of control...

2nd phase--You want to break up with me? I'll do what it takes to get you to come back-apologize, lie, cheat and steal, whatever it takes. If I act all nice and calm maybe you'll come back...no? I almost died, my neighbor, remember her? She tred to kill herself...don't you want to come up and see her?

3rd phase--Wow, you really don't want me? How dare you! I hate you! I'm going to ruin your life! I am the victim here and I'm going to tell everyone about it! No one will ever want to go out with you again once I'm done with this, because I don't want you ever going out with anyone but me, and if you won't have me, you won't have anyone!

*shudder*

It sounds a lot like the guys you took it from, too, Marcey and McKenzie!

You know, I still keep tabs on him? I don't know what he's up to now, but I know he was married a couple of years ago--to someone even more gullible than me, apparently. And then one day all his info was gone from his online profile. I think he probably scared another one off, and I feel sorry for her--I hope she's OK.

Tigerlily--there are LOTS of great guys out there! I've was married 12 years, with another man for four...maybe things didn't work out, maybe they were jerks sometimes, but most guys are as complicated as you and me, and no worse than us! lol I just...trust that when I'm ready, I'll find a decent man. Sounds weird, huh? I just really sense that that time is not yet here. And I'm OK on my own--like McKenzie said.

I have complete faith that I will find the right guy but I wonder if I had not gone through the trials that I did, if I would even recognize him. You have heard of the saying, 'You have to kiss a few frogs before you find your prince'? I really believe that's true. It's like anything in life, but how are you going to know you have it good unless you have experienced a little bad?

If I hadn't met and married my ex husband then I would probably expect that behavior to be typical and still allow it to happen. Now that I'm away from him and have learned that there are better ways to 'be the head of the household' without being a complete jerk, I know that I don't have to put up with that dominating behavior. I guess it goes hand and hand with 'live and learn'.

However, I do have a few friends that have only dated their spouse and they are better for it. I can't imagine that (only because I dated quite a bit as a youth) but they are extremely happy.

I think that being happy on my own has made me a better person to meet as well; I'm not clingy and desperate and feeling like I have to marry someone right now. Men see an independent woman and it shows confidence and power and that alone is an aphrodisiac. So, when I finally meet that hot Irish guy with jet back hair and striking blue eyes, he'll be more wowed by me then I am of him.

I haven't posted in this thread for ages. That's not to say I haven't been reading anyone's posts, I just haven't really had anything to say in response to them. And I still don't...

I'm quite happy at the moment really because I've finished school for the Christmas holiday and I don't have to worry too much about doing homework and stuff straight away. I still have loads to do but there's a bit less pressure to do it all right now, so that's okay. But I will have to do it sometime...

And that's about it really, nothing else has happened and I don't have any stories I can tell about stalkers or boyfriends or anything...

I won't promise because then I'll end up not doing it, but I'll try to post a bit more often.

Katie

xxxxxxxxxxxxx

PhoenixTears -

yes, ouch... i know not all guys are like that but heY! i am just slightly... careful and fearful of them that's all lol

Aethonon-

i actually agree.... thanks!

#tigerlily# -

isn't it just!!

thanks!

Golden Phoenix - aww bless ya! i don't know what to post either!! i posted to say thanks really!

bless! it's amazing how much you can miss by not going on this thread.. even if you don't go on for a day!

Phoenix92 -

fair enough! i respect your views... still!


well i guess maybe there is something we could do.... help them before it gets to late... before they lose all courage and faith... before life seems pointless and before they feel dead. the only thing we can do is talk them out of it. about a week or more ago i "saved" someone, all i did was talk to them. he was going to kill himself, i "saved" him more than once as well. i can't believe i did that. it wasn't face to face though it was over MSN.

i saved another and yet i fall before i can save myself...

haha...Aethonon, i still believe that there are decent guys out there...but where?!
and i don´t hate all men in the world! i don´t like my father and i think that´s already a bad start to built up trust to a guy (there are books dealing with the "father-dauter-relationship" that helped me to understand why many women try to make men like them and why so many girls are unsure about themselves).i somehow feel that most guys who seemed to be interested in me have/ or had issues...i can take when someone is troubled, i really like to help people. but it´s too hard for me to take when someone is always talking about how he hates life (and i agree with all of you who said that my exboyfriend was terribly possessive...), someone like this needs serious help, and i´m not a professional
i think i would need someone who is, just a little bit, more sane than i am...so he could also help me if i needed it. (i´m sick of carrying others all the way!)



SnakeCharmer74, your statement is really good! i believe it makes you a better person when you are also comfortable living on your own...i knew girls that only felt worthy when they were together with a guy (this has also to do with their relationship to their fathers) they need the attention of a male to feel a whole and beautiful person. i think it´s so sad how many girls change their behaviour or their look to make the boys like them. that makes me again...pretty angry, because i have no idea to change it...AHHH!

oh i forgot...welcome back Golden Phoenix

You know what I think one of the biggests tasks in life is. Finding someone who can see and knows all your differences, all your faults, all your negatives...but still loves you with every fibre of their being. But I've learnt one thing about life and love. Never ever be upset in life. However many mistakes you make, however much you regret or feel guilt, never be upset..cause for every 60 seconds you spend upset, that is a minute of happiness that you will never get back in life. And that is the reason why people always ask me why I am so happy all the time.

*sigh* I'm feeling so down in the dumps today; the weather over here isn't exactly helping either --thunderstorm. And it's almost Christmas too. I hope everyone's better than I am; I wasn't planning to sign on...but didn't have the energy, or motivation, to do anything else in comp tech so....

I...was going to trash what James wrote, but that won't really do anything. So I'll leave it. I'm so tired I can't even get an argument together. But James, great way of living. And great philosophy. *That's* why I get upset at certain times of the year...well, more obvious at certain times of the year anyways. Because one thing you can never gain back is wasted time. And then I think about whether I've done anything constructive....

I guess what I'm trying to say is that although that it is really great that you can do that and fantastic for you to share it with us, but I think that a lot of us, or me at least, am aware and it's *trying* to be happy all the time no matter how many mistakes I/we make that is the little... glitch in the whole plan. I...don't know how.


Great minds think alike! Those were my exact words...er...thoughts. I mean, great guys have to be out there somewhere, but where? And how to look? The world is a *pretty* big place.... And with so few of them....

Welcome back Katie! Sorry this is so buried in the post. I had to scroll down to see messages since my last post. Maybe you'll join into conversations now? Or steer us into a topic that you know about and can talk about?

Haha! Funny thing is, I don't really have stories to tell either. Kinda make my posts feel...dumb.

EDIT: Oh geez. Sorry about this very...messed up post. I found so many errors reading this over.... Now I feel really. Sorry...crash of self-esteem today.

don´t feel too messed up, PhoenixTears!
the weather can have a huge impact of your mood...i know that myself.

at least i found out that we thought the same thing .
don´t get too down...things will get better, i truly believe this...why else should i stay alive .



james pickles, that all sounds great what you´ve said about love and live. but i don´t think that i have the power for searching and finding my perfect match anymore... too much disappointment, to still believe in the possibility of finding someone who could accept and love me the way i am.
i´m sorry i´m not that brightminded to day, just like PhoenixTears...
love,
#tigerlily#

Aww come on. Phoenix you may be sad about all the time you have wasted but that doesn't matter, what about all the good times that really count. And tigerlily, you should never give up on love, however worn out you may be you shouldn't give up on it. I know more than anyone what it feels like to never find anyone that can accept you and love you. If I told my parent about this she would just say..but James you're only 14. SO WHAT! I see all these idiots at school who are absolute dicks to people but yet they have everything they want, money, social life, friends, girlfriend/boyfriend, fun, no one to pick on them...so many good things. And I can look at myself and think..I've got nothing..but then I realise I have got everything, I don't have money but in the words of Anne Frank "Riches can be lost, your heart can only be veiled but it will love again", and that is more important to me, and I have a huge social life, and friends who love me, I always try to have fun and be happy, and yeah people pick on me..but so what..if they get a kick out of making people feel miserable they are SICK! But one thing that has always made me sad is that I have never had someone to cuddle up to, someone to keep warm, someone to hold, someone to love. But now I have a girlfriend and we have a good relationship. And maybe it won't work out as time passes and maybe it will, but time will pass and my time will come again.

James, you have a new cirlfriend? Sweet!

And you are our little sweetheart on here, you know. I am sorry to hear that tigerlily and Dianne are having a blue day. The holidays can sometimes be very hard.

Thing about romance? The best ones seem to find you when you're least expecting them. I don't know why that is, but maybe it's because a potential mate sees you when you're feeling sassy and self-confident and they find that attractive. I have to admit that I'm even wary of that now...lol. Some guys are attracted to that because they are emotionally fragile and want someone who will prop them up, instead of finding that within. Because that's the best place to find it--it just takes more work.

hehe...James, you seem like a decent guy!
i don´t think that it has anything to do with your age...i have given up on love and relationships when i was 14... than, as i tried it, with 17 years i got together with that creepy guy, that i have told about, and i selfproofed my theorie about "love...that doesn´t work for me!". i´m happy for you and your girlfriend is lucky to have someone who still believes in love. i realy like your way of thinking, nice to have you here . although it is hard for me to keep myself from dark thoughts sometimes, i´ll try to be a bit more open to the good things in life...
i thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.



Aethonon, i think if i would have been more selfconfident and happy with myself, this guy had never dared to go out with me. (after a while he told me that i would never get someone better than him and that i should be glad that i´ve got him...).
i´d rather agree with the "if you love yourself, than someone else will love you too"-theorie. but that would count me out again .
for the fact, i´m not that brightminded today, so i have a problem with posting positive things...sorry...
all i want to add is that being possessive and eager as well as violent or abusive has nothing to do with romance (this isn´t meant to sound that rude, sorry but remember my bad mood ).
i wish you all love and light,
#tigerlily#

Aww really Aethonon..what makes you say that That really means alot. And tigerlily thanks . It is quite confusing to be honest when people tell me I'm a nice kid and a decent guy because then I go home and say my mum shouts at me for trivial things because she is stressed out and I think..how can people think I'm decent when I keep getting told off all the time..but it is just being a teenager I suppose. And you know what else is confusing lol..when my mum tells me to grow up and start being mature and acting like an adult, and then when I talk about discrimination and my points of view in life and human rights etc she shouts at me and says..James you're just a kid, stop trying to act like an adult...and then I'm like So what am I supposed to do if I can't grow up and be mature and then I can't be a kid. I think life is hard for everyone..I'm not trying to make it sound like I am having the worst situation and give the impression that I have had harder than anyone..but I think when you are at my age, in your teens it is the hardest part of your life. Cause I mean for a start you are physically changing and it can be worrying, and also your hormones are and you start running into things that aren't you territory and then you worry about leaving school and studies and you start wanting to be mature and acting a better person and you start finding yourself and it can be confusing, then you start wanting sex and relationships that you might ultimately regret and when you fall in love, you think it is pure love when it is actually a crush and you get your heart broken and you fall out with friends and the list goes on and on and on and I should quit my ramble now...but through all those changes and worries, there is always happiness and optimism at the end of it.

James, I believe you have a great head on your shoulders. You know the ways of the game and since 'knowing is half the battle' you can sit back and enjoy the rest of your teen years with ease.

Don't get me wrong, teen years are extremely hard, but when you know what you're up against (being treated equally like a child and an adult) then you learn how to react to different situations.

Such as, when someone tells you that you don't know about world events because 'you're a kid' then you need to be prepared to back up your statements with facts and proof that you are treating this discussion seriously.

As an adult I can almost guarantee that adults will look at and treat you differently when you prove that you are maturing.

As a young adult who remembers the teen years I can also guarantee that you will be extremely frustrated but hang in there.

When you need to vent, you know where to find us.

Being a teen is the hardest life phase that one goes through. I know when I was a teenager my life was very topsy turvy and had some very torrential moments to say the least. I went against everything my parents had taught me as a child. I was a rebel. I snuck around, smoked cigarettes, drank alcohol and even experimented with marijuana. I look back on my teen years and wish I could change them. there was alot that I did and alot that happened to me that I wish I could go back and erase.

If you are a strong person and have a positive head on your shoulders there is no doubt that you will come out of the teenage years unscathed. I believe all kids go through phases to "test" their parents. My son is 13 now and is already starting to play those very same games I started out in at that age. Now grant you he does not smoke, drink or experiment with drugs he thinks all of the above are disgudting. Which is a good thing, he tells me all the time how bad smoking is for me. I started when I was his age and I'm 34 now. That is one habit I wished I'd never picked up!

hang in there James and you will do fine. A word of advice next time someone says to you "you're only a kid, you would not understand" sit down with them and discuss issues that deal with kids and what they go through. If they realize that you are mature for your age and understand the antics of being a teen then maybe they won't look at you as "just a kid"

Hope this helps!

Hey! That's really brave of you!!and you have actually raised the level of respect I had for you!!.I haven't actually 'saved' people but only two people becoming best friends again.Talking is the best way yo bring out the problems within people who are going to suicide.There is no other solutions other than by talking to solve the problem.You know by writing here,my interest for Psychology has increased..

When I was in yr5 i felt like my friends were leaving me out and i felt really alone because there really werent that many people - girls- in my class
Like i asked if i could join in a game and they just said oh its not our game its the balls game you'll have to ask it oh no it landed on the wrong side - and these people were supposed to be my nest frineds
So i wanted to soemtimes and considered killing myself just to make it go away
Thankfully i didn't, i eventually told my mum that i couldnt wait to leave school and get new friends and it all came out
i never told her i considered jumping out my window

But personally i dont think i have the guts to do it, because all i can think is what if there is nothing out there what if this is it, i cant just end it all.

hey james,

i know it is hard, but as a teenager or a young adult you always get called things like "you are just a kid" or "you are too young, shut up!".
but your mind, thoughts and statements show who you really are. i´ve known so many idiots at school that got older, but unfortunately not smarter. i always felt so "old" compaired, because i was thoughtful and wanted to discuss things. i think all of us in this thread agree that you are talking like a smart guy and that has nothing to do with your age.
to me , the teenage years, seem to be horrible, because you aren´t really "finished" you still change and you have contact to people that don´t understand(or don´t want to listen to you) what you are talking about, cause they think you are"just a kid".

@DracosLady: i understand your son. i never did drugs or smoked cigarettes (i drink alcohol though) cause my mom is a smoker and i can´t stand it...in the past i told her how bad it would be for her, but i gave up on it . i don´t want to offend anyone, but i really think smoking is one of the most stupid things you can do to your body (i also told my mom).
back to the teenage problem. as i was about 12, girls from my school started smoking an wanted my to join them...as i told them my opinion about it they just said i was boring. you wouldn´t believe how many of those girls try to quit smoking now, but don´t have the strength to do it...that´s all i have to say about teenage years for now

i haven't posted here before, but i'm feeling so frustrated at the moment and i just want to get everything out. sorry to burst in but here goes.

I am, at the moment incredibly frustrated. i am forteen and i hate it. I know teenage years are hard, but i seriously need to get on with my life. I want to be older. This isn't so i can drink or drive, but so that i can have more responsibility. I want to go to university and work hard. I want to stop feeling as though i can depend on people, or have people assume i need them. I want, need to provide for myself. I am already independant, but it's not enough. I can be on my own and i am, however young i may look, very mature and subsequently, have been told so many times. Yet, people won't give me the chance to be. Everytime i do something 'grown up' or mature, most people will coment on it, as though it is a once in a lifetime thing and really, it's not.

I also have a slight problem socially. I am, at my school part of the 'popular group'. i dont even know where this title comes from since most of these people are the rudest, most uneducated people i have ever met, and are liked only by those of similar characteristics. this group is huge. I like none of them. Yet why do i stay as part of this social group? I don't know. I don't even talk to most of them anymore, i spend my free time during school studying or with the select few people that i do like. Yet, when people meet me and recognise my 'friends' i am thrown into a world of steroetypical idiots. I hate it. Out of school, i spend my time with adults, mainly my father, though when i am at my mums house i spend a lot of time alone. Since joining vtm, i have made friends, and even the youngest of these seem to be at least five years older. I thinki find young life- and young people- far too petty and trivial, and do not neglect to make my feelings known- at the appropriate time of course.

I am frustrated because i act and think like -dare i say it- an adult, but continue to be treated like a child by all but my father. The root of my frustration seems to be bondage, bounderies. Not the usual bounderies that some and unfortunately most teenage girls fight against, but bounderies in the minds of others. These can not be bypassed by meeting dodgy characters on street corners or getting blindly drunk, and cannot, it seems be changed by me, at least not directly.

It looks as if what i am going throughis what you were talking about, tigerlily, but it feels like the next level, that it has gone too far. i have insomnia, which is why i am up posting at these ridiculous times, i am on the verge of mental breakdown. I should be able to cope with this, many people do, but my mind seems to think about things too much, and it hurts me. i get paranoid and get terrified, to the point of breathing-into-a-paper-bag and when i do finally sleep , i have the strangest dreams. Yet, i am not afraid of heights or spiders or anything else like that that you care to say. i am scared of being afraid and i am scared of thinking too much. i sound dramatic, maybe i am. hell i don't know.

wow, im starting to feel better already. I think i may carry on tomorrow, rather, today.
hey its christmas eve for me! Happy christmas eve everyone.

Clara, what you're going through sounds, strangely enough, pretty normal to me!

You're in your teen years now, and it can be a scary time. Not only are your hormones doing all kinds of things to your body, they affect the mood, too! And it's when we are teens that we realize how truly dark our moods and thoughts can be, and that can be really scary!

It also sounds like you're changing enough to where you are wondering why you have the friends you have. I get this mental image of you standing on the precipice of a cliff. There's a bridge somewhere, a way to something better, but the fog is so thick you can't see it. You feel like you might fall off the edge but there's fog there, too, and you can't see the bottom. It's hard to know which way to turn, and the last thing you want to do is turn and go back!

But you don't have to go back. This sounds weird, but sometimes it's OK just to stand on the edge until you know where you want to put your foot next. I know, it can be hard. I'm a person who likes to have the near-future mapped out and clear. But it isn't always that way. Sometimes we just have to have faith in ourselves, and a little bit of trust that the fog will clear. You want other people to understand you and show you the way, but maybe they feel a bit lost, now, too!

I didn't think you were 14, either! I am always amazed that james pickles is 14. You guys are kinda special! I wish you had more people in your lives who understand who you really are and how your minds work. It's such a shame that people only see your age and make all kinds of assumptions about who you are based upon it. Kinda like with me--I've had a lot of younger people blow me off and discount me because they think I don't have anything to say that they want to hear, that I'm just someone's Mom and therefore stupid! It's really frustrating to be patronzied and disregarded, no matter how old you are!

I'm glad you posted here--we are all freinds and we try to help each other through those rough times.

i´m amazed we have that clever 14 year olds in here!
clara, as Aethonon said, i´m also happy you posted your thoughts in here. and i understand your point. being young and not "excepted" for your thoughts and statements is frustrating and it totally sucks. as i already said i felt horrible wrong and "not fitting" through my teenage years and i can only talk that calm about it, cause i feel ok with myself now. being thoughtfull is a gift, i understand that by now. but it can also be awful and seperating from others your age. i had times i couldn´t sleep, cause my mind was full or things and i turned around the whole night, so i had go to school without a minute of sleep.
if you don´t mind me asking, what is your social problem...i mean who can you be part of a group that you don´t like?! i´m sorry if i misunderstood you on this, but i was alwas a loner... i am polite and rather neutral to other people so i got along with most of them. i got my first true frinds (and i still got them!) when i was 16. they are surporting me and care about me without asking for something, i never new this before. and when i´m annoying and depressed they still stay by my side, though i sometimes don´t know why .
i would love to read more of you, and if it helps you that´s even better! maybe we can tell you something that makes you feel understood and not that alone on earth.

wish you all a harry christmas!
#tigerlily#

Wow Atheneon the clif analagy was scarily true, i'v never really thought of it like that before. I always try and put my thoughts down visually, whether that be writing a list of the thigs that are worring me (which, by the way, works amazingly<) or by imaging something in my mind. I do a lot of meditation and that has been helping with the lack of sleep, but only the deep sleep that you need, not the light comfortable sleep that i really want.

tigerlily, my social problem is, i think, that i dont fit in. I know this is quite normal, but what isn't normal is that everybody else thinks i do fit in, and that i am happy with my situation. I don't know whether this is because they are just blind to other peoples' emotions or just that i am incredibly good actress . i think maybe the former.

I am, i suppose very different. I have several sides to me. I am on one side, intelligent, knowledgeable and very scientific/logical. another side of me is spiritual. I am vrey empathetic and i love magic, i also love learning about other cultures and religions but have been raised, and remain to be atheist, at least of blind, complete faith. Then, i have my teenage side. i was for about ten years, starting from the age of two or three, very disruptive and difficult. when people see this mixed with intelligence, they are surprised, though i dont know why. Many of the most disruptive people are just clever, and bored. then, i have my calm side. my controlled side. I am a firm believer of self control, and this is one of the reasons i dislike most religions. i also speak my mind, as i want to be in control of myself.I believe in discipline, which sort of contradicts what i said earlier, but i believe in discipline of the mind. Then, there is my physical side. I wont lie, i was in the 'popular group' because of my looks, but i am not girly in the activity i take part in. i do karate and kendo, both which require complete control and discipline. then, there is my mental attitude. i am not niave, i am streetwise. i am not scared of any physical thing, seriously, try me. and i know, finally how to react to people, and when and when not to do and say things.

I think that that was a pretty long winded way of saying, I'm complicated, as only the best of us are.

i think, tigerlily, that even if i wanted to be a loner (and believe me i try) i can't because people won't accept me as that. I have to be what they want and believe, however valid or not. i need to shock them all, make them turn around and look at me, stop accepting me as one of them and begin to accept me as me. But, i understand that it is a flaw of the human race as a whole, one of the big ones, they cant accept things. I can't change the attitudes of several billion people, not yet anyway....

now, i said i would write some more today, and since i seem to be a good study case... here goes.

My brother. He is a seriously big problem. I know very very few people get on with their siblings, but i have a problem. I will sit on my bed and cry for hours because of him, and i dont cry easily, so that is saying something. I am not blaming this on him, however much i get the temptation, i am just stating the fact that our characters do not mix. i have wanted to move out because of him. he is twelve years old, he should not have that effect on me. I should not let him affect me like this, but i try really hard to ignore him and its taking up a lot of energy. Energy that unfortunately, i dont have.
He is not that bad. Oh he's bad, dont get me wrong, but not that bad. of course, my mum doesn't see it the way i do, he is her son and she would be the same if it was me in his position. I think it is me. I seem to have a weak spot, he seems to be able to upset me more than anybody else. i think there is just something in my brain that clicks when he's araound. In time, i will learn to control it, i am sure of it, but for now its not working. And, i fear that when i can finally stand to be around him it will be too late, an di will have lost my only sibling. I dont want to have to be apart from him to be relatively happy. that isn't how it should have to be. It scares me. i just want him to be different, but he isn't and i don't think he ever will be, he is not the sort of person to change and i have to accept this.
Doesn't make it easy though...

Clara}~

SnapeReallyEvil? -

how evil?? i wouldn't call them friends either!

it's always good to let it all out by telling someone, i'm glad you did.

that always bothers me... is there anything after death?? i think if i knew there was i would be dead by now!

Phoenix92 -

thanks! your respect, i vaule that! hey helping people to become friends again is hard and well worth respect also! Talking... yes i guess it is a good way of bringing problems out and helping. oh and i have had an intrest in Psychology for a while and by writing here and on other threads my knowledge, understanding and intrest in the subject has increased also.

Suicide is the final cry for attention, I think we can all agree on that.

But when it comes down to what it is, I believe it is cowardice. Back in middle school, there was this girl who would get so depressed she would say stuff like "see you tomorrow, if I make it through the night" and I would beg her to just take it slow, relax, etc. etc. I know now, as I have gained much intelligence on this subject over the years, that she just wanted me to talk to her and stuff and give her attention. She probably never had any desire those nights to do anything, she just wanted the attention.

Even still, I will offer a tidbit of advice after saying this: It would be unwise to shrug it off. 5% of all people who tell themselves they are going to kill themselves actually do, where as 80% of all people who actually did do it told someone before they did. Don't take that risk, I say.

oh, clara. you were just discribing me .i´m also a believer of selfcontrole...you can´t imagine how many people would be seriously injured when i couldn´t restain myself...
as for being complicated, let me put it like this. i am comlicated to most of the people, because i know what i want...and i seem to be complicated to them, because i sometimes don´t know what i want...it appears to me that i´m sometimes so sure about my thoughts and wishes and on the other hand i lose control on myself (i wouldn´t let anybody know though), i get angry and insecured...horrible!
like you i have been raised to be atheist, but i want to believe in something more than meets the eye. not blind believing in anything that someone else tells me, but exploring new cultures and i´m pretty spiritual (i dislike religions, there is nothing that seperates you more from true believe...i don´t want to follow a reverent ). i mean why should i stay alive, when there´s no hope left?!
your classmates have to be blind.this is actually an interesting phenomenon (how do you want to shock them, i´m curious...maybe i could give you tips..teehee) i can´t see myself not noticing that someone doesn´t feel right in his place. don´t they ever talk to you?! people can´t accept things as they are, because they put a lable on everything that is new to them. i hope we´ll get the chance to change their attitude and way of thinking some day!
as for your brother...it´s just the fact, that you can choose your friends, not your relatives. everybody is individual and i know how long it can take to except (ignoring is something that you can do with people you don´t like and don´t have to get along with. as you´ve said it takes too much energy to do this towards your brother)this. it sounds like "easier said than done", i know. but i´ve been through that time (i´ve hated my brother!) myself. i don´t know about the problem between you and your brother, for me it was that , as my brother was born, he took all the attention. i know that sounds silly, but noone ever had time to talk to me for about 8 years. so i was left with my thoughts and sorrows and if i started to say something everyone went "shut up you´re just a kid".
you shouldn´t be too hard to yourself and talk you into patience...if you are angry, write us a post . i know best that too much selfcontrol could make you numb, because you don´t allowe yourself to feel and act out of your emotions (you should keep yourself from jumping into someone elses face though!). your emotions and feelings are the language of your heart and soul. you don´t want to become a numb, hollow nothing, and we don´t want you to become this either!
till next time,
#tigerlily#

I completely empathize with the plights you are going through, but I'm afraid my brain froze when someone said, I'm not sure how you can be religous and not possess self control. Self control is how we contain ourselves to behave within society. A person with self control doesn't strike out at the first person that ticks him off or someone that doesn't shoot off at the mouth just because he has a passing fancy.



This statement IMO is borderline oxymoron. You want to explore new cultures but you don't want to believe in anything that someone else tells you about. So how exactly are you going to believe anything if everything is based on what we are told by someone else? History is complied of things people say as is the Bible and the Koran and anything else.

Don't completely write off spiritual assistance especially when going through difficult times. I know that I would not be here today were it not for God's intervention and help with strength. Mankind is not meant to go through our struggles alone and we don't have to if we look to the right places.

Now, I'm not saying you are wrong because your beliefs are your beliefs but just a small suggestion for you.