ok, first of all, if this topic already exists, please feel free to delete it


i think, the most fascinating thing in HBP was, that Snape made the unbreakable vow. he promised Narcissa to help and defend Draco. that sounds really serious, since if he had broken it he would have died....


my questions:
as far as i know Snape made the vow with Narcissa about Draco. but why did they need Bella? is there a 3rd person needed to make the vow? Ron said that when you break it you die. but do you die immadiately so if Snape hadnt killed DD he would have died right in fron of the DE? is it visible when you die because you broke the vow? i mean would the DE/or Voldemort have known that Snape did the vow?
does the vow still exist, or did it only last till Draco had fulfilled his duty?


i hope ive explained myself clearly

any thoughts?


PS: ive read a theory somwhere that DD trusts Snape so much, that they also made the vow. it sounds logic, since DD couldnt have been so foolish to believe that Snape felt sorry for the Potters' death. there must be something else....but its off topic. sorry

Lol- just before I saw this, I typed a long-winded thread about the unbreakable vow and then saw this title and thought you were reading my mind! But it's all good- two seperate issues;)

But anyways.....

I don't see how there can really be a time limit on the unbreakable vow, unless it is specified. For example, if the orders were for Draco to kill Dumbledore before Christmas that year and Snape then turns around and makes an unbreakable vow to complete it if Draco can't, then for Dd to still be alive AFTER Christmas would suggest that Snape failed and should be dead himself.

In answer to the questions though, I think a third person probably WOULD need to be there to conduct the vow. It says in the book that Narcissa and Severus clasped their right hands and that Bellatrix was the 'Bonder'. If of the two people completing the vow, one of them was the bonder, this kinda suggests to me that things could not be done properly, or that they are putting a binding spell on themselves. I saw it being like a witness in a contract.

I think if the vow was broken, Snape would have died immediately. Which I guess brings me back to the point of a time limit. If Draco is supposed to 'just kill dumbledore', then technically he could have 50 years or so- however long Dumbledore lives- to try. But what if someone else got to Dumbledore before Draco, and in turn Severus, tried? Would this mean that Draco failed and therefore Snape fails?

And then obviously if Draco HAD succeeded then Snape would have been releaved of his vow. But it might have taken him 5 years to complete???

Apparently it takes 3 to make the unbreakable vow. The 2 people between which the vow is being made, and the "bonder," who apparently casts the spell that binds the 2.

We didn't get much info on how you die if you break the vow, just Ron's quick comment. It doesn't make much difference how, just if you die.

I wonder... if it's true you die, then why doesn't LV use it on all of his DEs? He likes to kill them off if they're not faithful anyway, wouldn't this assure their faithfulness?

I think Snape's vow was ended once Draco's job was completed, so he's probably off the hook now. He didn't seem to have a problem offering to do his best to keep Draco safe, it was only when he had to promise to complete his task if Draco couldn't that he "flinched." I'm not sure that he knew what he was promising at that point. No one ever mentioned the plan, and Snape seemed to be fishing for info by pretending to know what was going on.

There's something that DD knew about Snape, that he never told, but I don't think it was the uinbreakable vow, or he just would have told Harry. I think it's much more important to the story.

I think that DD couldn't tell Harry about why exactly he trusts Snape, because Voldemort would be able to read it from Harry's mind and if it was a very serious reason, Snape could be a spy no longer

And I don't think that DD made the unbreakable vow with Snape, it may have been something else, DD wouldn't want people to die (at least I think so ).

I hope there isn't a topic about this allready, I've searched for it but couldn't find one that was particulary discussing it.

Last night when I was re-reading HBP my eyes fell on this sentence

Very good question, I would probably guess that it was not meant by either snape or dracos mother to include any other mission in the future, but it would be very interesting if it was worked into the next book somehow, causing either snapes horrible fate( which i do wish for) or having him likewise tied to draco as protection.

OHHHH noooo

maybe we all become completely obsesed by every words we see, but after all all details are to be taken into account with JKR

i hope that she will not get snape even more in troubles !!!

ok i know that my point of view isn't very fair but , hey i am a fan guys

well we already all know that Snape is certainly one of Voldemort's favourite so in any case he'd better obey to his master no ?

so i don't think this will make a real difference..hum i hope so ( i truly, madly, deeply hope so )

Intresting


But i guess, its a bit overanalyzed. Snape made the Unbreakable Vow and that means, that he must help Draco with his task. I believe, that his task was - at least Narcissa and Draco only knew about this- to kill DD. It is possible, that this was only the first part of Voldemort's plan, but Draco's mission was only to kill DD. I hope that makes sense...

Heya This is an interesting topic and I've thought about it as well- there's another thread on Draco's missions here that you also might like to read

In answer to the question "Has Snape fulfilled the 'unbreakable vow'?" I'm a little of both ways. I don't think that there was a time limit stipulated on this particular vow, therefore to say that he must have completed it, because he didn't drop dead isn't exactly accurate.

And I agree with you that it was never actually stated what the mission/s were- implied definately, but never stated. So the vow could have been a number of other things, in which case, it might have even been completed long before Snape killed Dumbledore. Or maybe it hasn't actually been completed yet and that will be part of book 7.

I think what is meant by "wishes" is the individual things that make the whole task.

Like let's say Voldy wants him to bake a cake for him, Bad example I know.

Draco has to
-Get flower
-Get sugar
-get eggs
-mix the solids
-mix the liquids
-bake the cake.

Technically voldemort only asked him to do one thing (bake a cake), but there are many things that need to be done in order to do this one thing. Thats where the "wishes" comes in I think.

Voldy only wanted Draco to kill DD, but there are steps that he needed to go through to do it.

Good point, Krjeltje and I'm not sure what to think about it. Right now we know that Snape had one wish to fulfill but if LV knew about for example about the Vanishing Cabinet at that time? I'm wondering what Moaning Myrtle said about Draco, maybe there was more about wish/wishes he had to fulfill in his speech. I mean if she said something in singular or plural or nothing

And it may be as in the upper post about baking cakes

Um, I think that the word "wishes" was only used to describe the one task. For example: Following DD's wishes, Snape was bound to keep his promise in killing him. (this is a fake sentence, don't get too excited) or BY following Voldy's wishes, Draco was able to disarm and destroy DD. (another fake) or Harry wishes that he can see his father again. None of these are based of multiple verbs or subjects. So I think that the manner of hte sentence was just interpreted wrong. THis is my assumption, I could be wrong, but i doubt it.

I don't think the unbreakable vow is fullfilled, just like its said before, it might contents all the things that Voldemort wishes Draco to do... But i have a doubt. If Draco didn't kill DD (that it was his mission) and following what narcissa told to snape he would die, and if he dies snape dies, right? cause of the unbreakable vow!.. And I dont think that voldemort would care about Draco, and if he doesn't know about the Unbreakable vow..
Maybe he'll sacrifice one of his favorites without knowin..!

Sorry if i dont explain good, cause the english's not my first language! But i really want to know this!

thte example with the cake was a good one. Nevertheless, if we follow this theory that would mean that the vow can last forever !!

indeed, Voldemort always requires his death eaters' help, so that would mean each time Draco will have to help his master, Snape will have to to be there for Draco because of the vow

Or, maybe JKR will consider that this will be Snape's punishement....to be Draco's slave in a way...

I think JKR contridics herself though.She said LV liked to do things by himself then why does he require things to be done by Snape and Draco? he is now relying on other people? He is getting week.

No, I think you just read it wrong. We are told that Voldy likes to be independent, and not have to rely on other people for his well being, not that everything he does, he does on his own. There is a big difference.

If there is a job that needs to be done and Snape and Draco are right there to do it, why wouldn't he have them do it? How does that mean he's getting weak? Seeing how Voldy has been getting stronger throughout the books I find it laughable that you are able to come to that conclusion.

I think that vow is over and done with, we know exactly what it was from reading, Hagrid over heard snape and dumbledore arguing, snape dident want to kill dumbledore but dumbledore told him he had to because of his vow....At one point someone also in plain words says that its a possibilty that draco was meant to be killed in his attempt to kill dumbledore. Throug careful re-reading i believe that part of the story is done with.

I think that he has fulfilled the vow because they were speaking about dracos tasks at the moment not after. Snape didnt want blood on Dracos hands so he did it even though he hated it.

Can you guys help me with something? How do you get those cool pics with every posted message? Iam completely lost.

yeah, he has fulfilled the vow that he made with narcissa and bellatrix when he killed dumbledore cos thats wot narcissa meant with the task that draco might not be able to fulfill himself.

anyway, the more proper question is: does anyone think that the reason why dumbledore trusts snape very much is cos dumbledore made an unbreakable vow with snape to protect and never harm (harm as in KILL) harry? cos i mean, dumbledore knows snape's a good occlumens/legillimens bit and could actually hide things from him if snape wanted to, but still, he trusts snape almost unconditionally.

i think when he made the vow he said he would protect him.the vow may not be over if he said he would protect draco not just until the task was done.if he just made the vow for the task alone then maybe the vow is over b/c he protected draco and carried out the task of killing Dumbledore.

I agree. I think when he said I will protect him, he didn't just mean during this task. I think that Narcissa maybe asked Snape to protect Draco from the Dark Lord period. She knows that Voldemort is angry with Lucious and that he is trying to avenge himself through Draco. So, the vow is probably not completely carried out. Furthermore, he said that he would watch over Draco while he attempts to fulfill Voldemort's wishes. It didn't really specify and I think that was intentional because Narcissa knows that if Draco doesn't succeed in this attempt, Voldemort will set for him other more diffucult tasks. So, again the vow is probably still in effect.
It has three parts and Snape effectively completed one: he carried out Draco's task in the lightning struck tower.
Also, Bellatrix had to be there to cast the magic to bind them. I think to make the Unbreakable Vow, you need to have a "Binder" because you need another person's wand to bind the hands of the two people making the vow together.
But, the question is: What was he thinking when he agreed to the Unbreakable Vow?
I think he maybe felt sorry for Narcissa and realized that there was no other way?

OK maybe I'm just too analytical but how bout this
let's look at the full Unbreakable Vow

"will you, Sevrus, watch over my son, Draco as he attempts to fulfill the DARK LORD's wishes?

"I WILL"

ok it says DARK LORD and i assume that Narcissa means LV but what if Snape know of another who goes by the DARK LORD if she said LORD VOLDEMORT their would be no mistake
next line

"and will you, to the best of your ABILITY, protect him from HARM?"

"I WILL"

ok 2 key words here first ability does cowardice play into ability here because if so if he is to scared to protect Draco from LV then it was TO THE BEST OF HIS ABILITY

HARM not DEATH by protecting him he may convince LV to just kill him instead of torturing him

next line

"and, should it prove necessary...if it seems Draco will fail..." (Snape's hand twicted within hers but did not draw away) "will you carry out the DEED that the DARK LORD ordered Draco to perform?"

the word DEED indicates 1 task

when i first read this i thought it was VERY VAGUE and do you notice that snape never lets Narcissa say the actual DEED meaning if LV tells draco to do anything like get him a cup of coffee and it looks like Draco is going to fail and Snape does it then guess what the UNBREAKABLE VOW has been fulfilled

i think snape was about to pull hand away from Narcissa because he thought she was about to go into details on the DEED she meant but didn't for 2 reasons 1 he knew that Bellatrix had already told Narcissa not to say a word to anyone about the DEED and he agreed when they first came into his house at spinner's end and Narcissa thought better of it 2 he new the instant that he did pull away Bellatrix would kill him and she would tell LV that Snape was a traitor and he proved it in front of her

What if Lily made an Unbreakable Vow with Snape as well?
Maybe that's why Snape keeps trying to save Harry? Because if he doesnt protect him then he'll die? That'd suck. He'd have two people he'd have to watch over. I know he attacked him in HBP but he didn't kill him. Eh? I thought it'd be pretty cool. I don't know why she wouldn't have just used Lupin and Sirius though. Or Pettigrew at the moment. Maybe she'd have said that if she and James died, then would you make sure he didn't die? I don't know...it would've made sense I think.

~I think in the chapter of Spinner's end a seperate party was needed to be the bonder. The Bonder was someone who sealed the vow with a wand that was impartial to the parties making the vow. I believe that if Snape would have failed to kill DD, he would have failed in keeping his vow and he would have instantly died. Whether or not it would have been spectacular and let the Death Eaters know that it was a failed Unbreakable Vow that killed him, I don't know. I would imagine so though. How else would others know the consequences of breaking such a vow? Does the vow still exist? I think that the vow was nullified once Dumbledore died. I mean that was Dracos entire task--the task that Snape vowed to protect him from harm.


~hmmm, I think you may be a tad bit analytical but that is okay. Questioning is a good thing. Through out the series JKR specifically refers to Voldemort as The Dark Lord. It is a term that is reserved for the Death Eaters. When talking about a different wizard who is evil such as Grindelwald they do not call him Dark Lord, they say Evil Wizard or Dark wizard...don't quote me on that as I don't have a reference in front of me regarding this, but it is definately not Dark Lord. I don't think it could be anyone else such a Lucius because I don't think Lucius would want the wrath that would befall him if Voldemort ever found out he was labeling himself as an equal. scary.