i am sry if this topic has already been started but i cant find it if it has.

Whats with harrys new found aggression towards adults. Seriously he challenged mundungas and hes an auror. I would think mundungus wouldnt be afraid like that sense he is an older person than harry and probably knows 3 times as many spells as harry does and could block any one that harry knows. This doesnt make sense to me. Also why does he have no care in the world to what he does. He breacks the rules backtalks teachers and in my opinion becomes a jerk.

also if this topic has been started could somone direct me to it.

i don't necessarily agree with your analysis, but i didn't think Mundungus was an auror. hes just a clown who somehow got into the OoP.

The only reason he was aggressive towards Dung was because he was stealing his possessions. And Harry has nearly come of age himself. I thought he was actually much more mature in this book. And Mundungus was a petty criminal, not an Auror. But he was in the Order.

Mundungus is NOT an auror, he's a common thief and a con man. He was supposed to be watching over Harry in OotP and left him, risking Harry's life and almost getting him and Dudley kissed by dementors.

Harry has more than enough reason to be angry with him, as in HBP, he stole and sold off a lot of things Harry inherited from Sirius (in Grimmauld Place) which means he has no respect for the dead (Sirius) or Harry. Mundungus should fear Harry, because Harry is powerful and passionate about Sirius and those who would disrespect him, giving Harry much more power than Mundungus, who is nothing but a greedy old grave robber.

As for talking back to teachers, it's only been to Snape, who has always been hateful to him. Harry can't respect him after knowing that Snape told Voldemort about the prophecy and caused his parents' murders, and ruined his life.

He was also angry with Dumbledore, who withheld the truth from him for so long. Even Dumbledore admitted that Harry had reason to be angry with him, and didn't blame him for it. Harry is almost an adult and the adults around him were, until the end of this book, treating him like a child. He's been through more than most of them ever will, and deserves the respect of being told the truth about why all these things are happening to him.

He was also quick with Scrimgeour, but that was because he was disgusted by the Ministry's tactics of imprisoning innocent people like Stan Shunpike to make it look like they were doing their jobs.

After looking at his reasons, I certainly couldn't call him a jerk for any of these things.

Hiya TheOneTheyCallFred&George (my my, long user name...)

If you haven't been to the rules page yet, could you have a quick look over them because the use of netspeak isn't allowed on the forum ('sry'). I know it's only a small one, but it irritates a lot of people...

I've also edited the topic title so the search engine can pick it up more effectively.

WARNING!!! SPOILERS IN THIS RESPONSE, SKIP IT IF YOU'RE NOT FINISHED!!!!!


Wow, I'm surprised I'm the first to mention this. Aside from the fact that Harry has always worn his emotions on his sleeve, which I firmly believe will only be more important as the story closes, that argument was not thrown in arbitrarily. The locket horcrux turned out to be a fake, replaced by the mysterious R.A.B. Now, popular theories point to Regulus Black as the switch artist, and Harry has inherited Grimmauld Place, which was home to Regulus at the time he worked for and was killed by Voldemort. We have no reason to hear anything about Mundungus or the stuff he's nicking (Harry didn't even remember it was his, he was just insulted at the idea of Sirius' things being taken so soon after his death) if something isnt going to come of it later, thats just not like Rowling to throw in for no reason.
Cut to OotP, "The Noble and Most Ancient House of Black" where they are all cleaing out a large cabinet. They come across several items, including "a heavy locket that no one could open". I believe that the locket is the Horcrux Harry is looking for, and someone will remember it, but Harry will be unable to find it at Grimmauld Place. Mundungus will have nicked it, and he'll have to hunt it down. Thats the reason for that argument, so that it will stick in our heads.

SPOILERS AHEAD

Hey, i saw this topic and just had to add my two cents. lol.

Well when i read this book, and thought that harry seemed to have really matured. Not shown more aggression. I was really proud of how Harry reacted to Rufus Scrimgeour. Calm and witty. Snape, well he's always been like that with snape, and Dumbldore, well he'd just found out that Dumbldore had hired the man that had sent his parents to their deaths, i think you'd be just a little angry with him. Same goes with Mundungus, he'd just been stealing Harry's beloved Sirius stuff. It would make anyone kinda angry.
Just as a side note, did anyone get the kind of feel that Harry is really joining the adults now. In that last meeting with McGonagall and the other teachers, HArry joined in as if he was one of them.

I mean this with no disrespect for sixteen-year-olds, but Harry is sixteen. EVERYONE lashes out like that, whether the reason is good or not. I think Rowling simply does a great job at showing his growth into adulthood, nothing more.

personaly i'm starting to think harrys a bit oof a testosteron and adrenailine junkie, the way he lashes out at dung, well he's a theivin git and his retort to snape "theres no need to call me sir, proffesser" that was just jokes.

I have to agree with corijp that Harry's attitude was completely justified, it was incredibly disrespectful of Mundungus and Harry hasn't really grieved Sirius's death because he has so many other things to be getting on with. I think he showed great restraint not hexing on site!

i don't believe that harry is changing in respect to working with adults. ever since he came to hogwarts he has been conversing with older wizards and witches and has always wanted to be part of their plans. HBP has the adults finally agreeing with harry being there and being one of them. just think, in SS he first ran into hagrid and then was introduced to many adults before he even saw any shildren. in CoS, Minerva made sure harry was involved in knowing what happened to hermione instead of snding him straight to the tower. He also stood up to lucius. In PoA, he hung out with lupin more than the students. in GoF, again with mad eye hanging around with harry, harry and sirius. in OotP, he is surrounded by all of the order. finally in HBP, he meets Slugghorn, Scrimingeour, goes on outings with dd and stands up to dung. HBP has just shown harry's eagerness to show the adults that he can work with them instead of just being their friends. also keep in mind that harry's trouble with authority stems from how his aunt and uncle treat him at home

wow you guys i never looked at these ideas before they are extordinary.

I thought that at first when i started this post all everyone was going to say is what i thought was wrong but instead some of u have these amazing ideas that i never considered, especially that harry had the right to take on mundungas i trully thought it was harry who was also being disrespecful but now i see that i was wrong. thanks everyone




hey geuss what people actially wrote back on this topic i feel so proud

Okay, we've had charater threads for HBP Hermione and Ginny, and now I think Harry also warrants one because he has definitely undergone some changes since OOTP.

I was surprised by some of the reactions Harry had to certain situations, he never really seemed very consistant. When Harry was with Dumbledore, that's when we saw the Harry I know and love, but he was often very different in his other dealings, for example his demonstration at pettiness when he frequently joined in on others exploits of making fun of people. It didn't ring true to me and was not at all what I expected from a more mature and hardened Harry.

What's your opinion on HBP Harry? Did he live up to your expectations, or maybe even exceed them? Do you think he changed or was inconsistant?

If you think I missed an important option please let me know...

he was different and very very consistant! i loved him more, he did his best and i think he did prefect, i think he was so lovely though i also love Harry in the book 5 too but in book 6 he was so funny too!

I've voted "didn't like it where his character went but he's still OK or something like that .

Honestly, I think that Harry proved his stupidity using hexes if he had no idea what they caused. He became more James-ish in hexing people without any reason. He may not like crabble/Goyle but testing hexes on them because HE HAS TO test it on somebody? No, thanks.

Then, all this sadness after Sirius's death. Jo made it too unbelievable, he managed with the sadness to quickly.

He could be wiser and control his outbursts of anger. he could also think more about some people motives.

Nothing more comes to my head now. I still like him very much, but less. As I remind myself being his age, I was as stupid as he sometimes is so I forgive him

hes still the jokes person we know from the earlier books with he has become a bit more like his dad but that was to be expected.

as for imprtant options try:
hes still the jokes person we know from the earlier books

Like I wrote in the Harry/Ginny venom thread, I had my problems with Harry in book 6. I cannot believe him thinking it funny bullying people, throwing hexes at them, etc.
In book 5 he was horrified that James and Sirius were so mean to Severus, and now? He's doing the same thing, and it is sort of okay with Jo. I don't think that this should be the message of this book.

I'm okay with him being too proud to apologise to Snape and not actually getting a grip and start to learn occlumency from him (yes, I do think that Severus is not evil at all and had his reasons for what he has done). I can understand that for when I was his age, I behaved the same way.

I actually didn't like him being made captain of the quidditch team, it made him a bit arrogant. What do you think about that? I was so pleased when he wasn't made prefect, for I think that Ron has got to earn some glory too. But now Harry's captain and sort of the boss of everything, I don't like that. Sorry I can't explain any better.

I have to completly agree with bubo on this one.

Firstly, Harrys "dealing" with Sirius' death. Anyone who has ever lost someone close to them will know that no-one can just "get over" a death like that. It was way to quick as if the whole "Sirius is dead" storyline needed to be pushed aside. The only possible explaination is that Harry still hasn't really come to terms with it and is repressing his emotion, which doesn't really explain the outbursts.

Ands for being more "james-ish", its starting to become apparent that he is maybe attempting to mimic the life style of all four maurders put together. He shows the intellegence and style of Lupin, the prank and "cool and sporty" side of james, the un-nerved "charge into battle rather than think" of Sirius, and well... we'll forget Pettigrew for now, but you can see where my point is. Could it be that he sees them as role models, and is sub-conciously basing himself on them?

Maybe im reading too far in, but I personally think as we move through the books, the more like the three (at least) he becomes

I think Harry has gotten alot better. In the fifth book he had a really bad tember, but in the 6th book he started to control his temper more. He is really growing up. *sniffles*

I liked Harry very much in HBP. He has changed a lot since OotP.
But there was one thing that struck me and that was how he dealt with Sirius' death. In my opinion Jo wanted to close this chapter of Harry's life too fast. I also didnt understand why he suddenly started to like Ginny. Where did it come from?


But all in all, im satisfied with his character, i liked this Harry better than OotP-Harry.

JKR didn't write Harry as an ALL CAPS HARRY in HBP, because he was no longer angry like he was in OotP. It is mazing, how Sirius' death wasn't an issue in HBP at all. In HBP, I expected Harry to still be upset and be mourning his death. But, I suppose Jo had to make allowances for concentrating on creating her Super/Barbie-Ginny! IMO, in HBP, Harry was written as having a rather tough time of puberty. All the angst and that dumb "monster in his chest". It didn't help that love potions dominated the portion of the book that had nothing to do with KILL VOLDEMORT! To me HBP-Harry is shallow. It occurred to me that he always seems to go for the pretty girls. But then again, I remind myself that he is just 16 years old. If he wasn't "the boy who lived" I doubt many pretty girls would give him the time of day. (Girls this age also seem to go for the cute boys!) Lets keep in mind that we're NOT talking about Daniel Radcliffe (the 'hottie'), we're talking about the boy JKR has described in her books (the plain ordinary one!)

In a nutshell, I'm not too fond of Harry in HBP. The only time I liked him was at the end of the book where he breaks up with Ginny. I know that it was for a noble reason, and I realize that JKR may still bring them together in her final book, but I'm just glad he broke up with her. NOBODY but JKR knows how the romance plot will turn out in book 7. We'll just have to wait and see.

Overall I felt a little detatched from the HBP Harry. I realize he wasn't going to be as angsty as he was in OOTP because he'd already gone through that phase, but in HBP, we got to see very little of what was truely going on inside Harry, maybe far less than in any other HP book so far. So many of his turmoils were glazed over, and we were expected to take for granted what he was feeling by comments like 'Harry didn't want to talk about it just now'. Okay, that's fine if later you're going to delve into the why-for's etc of what is going on in his heart and his head, but most of the time it wasn't followed up. Harry seemed to remain quite distant from the reader. I found that particular character development disappointing. Maybe it was in effort to show his maturity?

Every other book I was able to hold hands with Harry the whole way, seeing what he was seeing, doing what he was doing (in a manner of speaking), feeling what he was feeling, this being one of the many wonderful writing talents of Jk. She made us all care deeply about Harry Potter, no mean feat when you are creating a fictional character, especially when it was done with such enormous success. But I felt a bit left behind in HBP. Maybe it was just me?

Oh its late here and I'm not expressing myself very well, but Harry was, in my opinion, not as reachable in HBP as in previous books.

I think that Razz has it captured it perfectly when she says that she felt detatched from HBP Harry. It wasn't that I disliked him exactly so much as I couldn't relate to him as much. I think that part of it is that he feels he needs to be detached from his friends, etc, to defeat Voldemort, but that's no reason to alienate him from the readers!

Yes, I think I'm going to have to echo Razz too. Detached is an excellent way of putting it, actually

I liked Harry in OotP. I think his anger was justified and righteous and I respected him a lot for standing up for what he believed in. I know a lot of people didn't like him there, and that's fine, but personally, give me the OotP Harry over HBP Harry any day.

Inconsistent is also a wonderful word - and he can't blame hormones for that because he came to life towards the end of PoA so it's hardly a new concept for him. He laughs at Ginny calling her brother a prat - why is that funny exactly? Ron is upset - genuinely. He's really bothered about that Quidditch match and I hardly think that's it's a particularly nice thing that not only does his own sister make fun of him, but his best friend laughs at her jibes too. I felt like smacking Harry upside the head - this was just moments before the "monster" started roaming around in his chest - out of absolutely nowhere, incidentally - when he sees Dean and Ginny kissing. I wondered what on earth was going on with him when I first read the book and I found myself wondering the same thing upon second reading. Where are Harry's morals gone? Has he become that arrogant? I can't believe it - that's not the Harry I've loved for five books.

He's becoming like his father, and that's not a good thing. His father was an egotistical, bullying, arrogant, rude, ill-mannered jerk and certainly not someone to aspire to. As I said in Omerus' thread earlier, JKR is going to have to pull a pretty big rabbit out of her hat to turn my perceptions of Lily and James around. I really don't think much of either of them right now and I would really hate to see Harry walking their path. I would have hoped that all those bad experiences of his would have rounded him a little more - I don't want to see him forgetting his roots because I don't think it would be a particularly positive message to be sending out.

And I absolutely loathed the lack of Sirius in this book. This man was the closest thing to a father Harry has ever known and he tries not to think about it? Denial? Is that the message that JKR wants to send out? Don't worry if you lose a parent - just don't think about it and you'll be fine. Yeah, right... I can't believe Harry didn't feel his loss more. How are we expected to know how Harry feels about all the people who he's lost if JKR doesn't show us? Isn't that what a writer is supposed to do? I just don't find it believable at all that Harry could think so little of him.

I was very disappointed to see him as Quidditch captain too. I genuinely thought his Quidditch days were over - I thought his character was growing and he had more important things to worry about now. I wrote quite a lot about that in the pre-HBP days - how I hoped Harry would naturally progress away from that and possibly become more involved in the DA. Sadly, like a lot of things, I was mistaken about that too. He goes right back where he started from. Very disappointing. And yes, I do think it made him a little arrogant, especially towards the middle of the book.

I found myself feeling rather indifferent towards him in the end actually. I was far more intrigued, overall, by Snape and Malfoy in this book to be honest. At least they were consistent.

I, too, am worried about how Harry is evolving. I'm not sure I liked the "new" Harry so much. Although I am hoping to see him evolve right back into what I think he should be: a proper hero.

Perhaps we are being presented with Harry essentially turning into his father for a very simple reason: to see him accept his flaws (how he is like his father) and grow past them to become a better person. I know that probably makes me the eternal optimist, but I have a feeling we're going to see more changes before the end, some good, some bad...

I have to quickly add: This fits in very well with my current pet theory...

Cheers!

With every new book, we see a different Harry. He is growing up. Just as any teenagers I met, he is a new person each year. He is getting taller, more mature and still developing his character. I realize Jo Rowling doesn't really make her character to suit the readers' liking, but for the readers to like the characters the way she develops them. Harry's developing character is part of the surprises Jo Rowling has in store for her readers.

I liked this Harry then whinny, girly OotP Harry. God, I freakin' hated him in OotP.

I love Harry. You can tell that he's definitley growing up, I mean, if you havent noticed, he's talking back to his teachers a lot more, and is being a bit more snippier with his friends. His emotions are getting more stronger..there's much more hatred towards Voldemort and Snape then there ever was. I like the way Harry's character has evolved.

I really liked Harry in this book. He is growing up, becoming more mature, but at the same time his emotions are getting much stronger and more intense (sometihng he really needs to work on). I think it showed great responsibility and even love when he told Ginny he could not be with her anymore. That would be a hard thing to do, but he knows he has to set his priorities and not let anything get in the way of his ultimate goal.

I join the line and can just say: Wow Razzberry2, detached is the absolutely best word to describe my feelings towards Harry when I read HBP. (Actually, I felt detached to every character in HBP, even Dumbledore, but this is off-topic. I remember, the only person I really felt attched, and close to was Luna, which is surprising for me - I really like her and the personality concept she stands for, but I am not a huge fan.) I find it strange that I feel like this reading a book where Harry is doing quite a lot of thinking (about Draco, Ginny and so on - for me, even the pensieve scenes were very thought-heavy, because it wasn´t a real action and Dumbledore and Harry reflected a lot about what they saw). I mean, getting to know the inner thoughts of a character should bring him closer to you, and in the past JKR really pulled this off with achieving a great sense of caring for Harry - which is (obviously... ) not a necessary consequence... It´s not that he is growning up and therefore I feel less protective - quite the contrary, I atually should feel much more protective because he lost all those close people by now, experienced Cedrics death (and could feel guilty about it), his best friends bicker all the time and he is trapped in the middle, it gets more and more clear he will have to defeat Voldemort in the close future, he is in love with a girl who has a boyfriend (this usually is enough for me to feel extremely sympathetic with a fictional or real person )- and then he loses Dumbledore, breaks up with his girlfriend and a huge and dangerous task awaits him.... Well, I should be out of my mind for compassion and caring, shouldn´t I ? To be fair, when I read the last paragraph (about the last golden day....), I really felt so sympathetic with Harry, Hermione and Ron - I had a warm, fuzzy, caring, connected feeling (sigh ) and maybe I remember wrongly, but I think this was the first time in the whole book I felt that way...

I reckon I need to bring myself somehow to read HBP again - I haven´t come near it since I have thrown it in a dark, dark corner of my cupboard - and go looking for detachment reasons....

I have to agree with detached. We really were detached from Harry in this book. He wasn't really involved like the OoTP Harry. I would much rather have the OoTP harry back because he stood for what he believed. I also didn't like the fact that Harry didn't feel sad for Sirius or anything. You can't get over a loss that quickly. There were only a few instances where Sirius was even mentioned.

I don't think Harry is back-talking that much anymore, and that's definitely a sign that he's maturing. He has changed so much since OotP where he was such a hot-head (which really annoyed me). So I would definitely say Harry is maturing in the sense that he's learning to control his emotions better.

I'm really glad that Harry has moved on from his emotional phase in OOTP - he constant whinging was beginning to do my head in. He is definitely becomine more like James, but I'm don't think the 'message' behind it really matters - we are only what we are, be that good or bad. If Harry is destined to be arrogant then arrogant he will be.

I also don't buy into the "he got over Sirius too quickly" argument - sure he must miss him but how long did he really have to develop a rapport with him? Snatched moments at Grimmauld Place and the occassional chat in the fireplace will not attach a fifteen year old to anyone for very long, it's very easy-come easy-go at that age. In this regard Dumbledore's loss was far the greater as he was an old mentor and friend.

i didnt like harry at all. think about it. at the start of the series he was a nice innocent and polite boy going to learn about magic, and now he is...... a boy with a temper, who cheats in potions, kisses girls, and is kind of arrogant in my opinion. hes supposed to be a hero!

Somebody said that Ginny and Harry behave in this book not as we supposed them to behave (at least many of us, not everybody). It's interesting why it was done so, there was some purpose in it. I can't see Harry growing up here, I see him as a boy who doesn't care about DD and what he asked him to do, unless DD makes him ashamed of it.

Snape is shown as betraying DD here, Ginny as somebody very different from the second-year nice girl, DD was shown as a naive fool, Ron and Hermione as people who can be in shallow relationships. There's something wrong with this book. Is it on purpose? Nothing is really as it seems?

I am a little disappointed in how little effort Harry lies to learn more on the school. Like learning how to perform spells without uttering a word, to be able to do that would prove extremely helpful, I can't believe anything else. Like Snape said when fleeing

You have a good point Zeph - probably the thing that irritates me most about Harry is that he's just so lazy! I don't think he's a patch on James when it comes to skill, yet he apparently had inherited all the "bad" traits...

I think you are a bit too strict with the poor boy.

He has never been the best student in the class - it is Hermione. He has never spent too many times studying in the common room. Its true, but you forget that he achieved high marks at the OWLs, he could perform a full-fledged Patronus at the age of 13, he learned the Summoning Charm in a really short period of time. Definately, he IS talented. And IMHO he isnt lazy. He just has other things in his mind.


Snape said at the end of HBP:

Exactly, what he achieve is because of his talent, not hard work, like Hermione. He can do Patronus and some stuff, yes, but he got private lessons from Lupin, and he had to learn it.

Once he sets his mind to learn something, he usually manage it pretty fast, but when you consider the dangers he encounter, and that he has set his mind to defeat Voldemort, possibly the world's most dangerous wizard, he ought to have gathered all knowledge and skills possible at Hogwarts.

He seems to get good grades, some I fear a bit because of his background, but everytime you meet him in class, he appears like he don't give a, sorry about the language, crap. How many times hasn't Hermione helped him with her knowledge and skills?

His chase for Snape happened in the end of the term, and by then he should have learned how to do non-verbal spells. If he can, but was too upset to focus may be possible, but if he can't focus on the spells when in danger, he's got a problem.

i loved harry in this book they way he stood by dumbledore no matter what was very heroic he kept his promise to dumledore he showed he was dumbledores man through and through which i just loved even when dumbledore died he still didnt break the promise which in my opinion shows a far better harry than in the other books (although i loved harry in all the books )