Louise
Aug 8 2005, 04:40 PM
Okay guys, here you go - thread 4 for discussions concerning the identity/purpose/anything else that may be relevant to R.A.B and the note.
Please note that there are three (obviously
) threads of arguments before this, but a basic summary of the arguments would be that many other possibilities have been suggested from Regulus Black to a group using the initials R.A.B to two people - R 'And' B. As it currently stands though, the main arguments are centering around Regulus Black and that is where the last thread ended.
Now I appreciate that there are going to be a lot of newcomers to the forum who don't fancy the idea of wading through three previous threads - that's fine, I understand - but nonetheless we really would appreciate it if you could take on board the summaries and understand that there have already been a lot of ideas expressed so PLEASE read through the posts in
this thread even if you don't want to go through the others before you post your own thoughts. It's the polite thing to do and will stop you feeling disappointed if your posts are ignored because they simply repeat old ground.
Balderdash has posted some evidence for this from the books, copied and pasted from the previous thread below.
| QUOTE |
| QUOTE | QUOTE (Lelldorin @ Aug 7 2005, 01:02 AM)
Edit: Whoops, I got off-topic. You think its Regulus Black simply because of his intials? That's extremely debatable.. |
No, theres lots more evidence. But, firstly, who else do we know of that has those initials? There are only two, maybe three, other people that we have been told about, that have a surname beginning with a 'B,' and Regulus is the only one that fits perfectly.
Regulus was killed nearly seventeen years ago, and R.A.B. - whoever they were - said in the note, that they were expecting to die soon. Plus, Lupin said that he only managed to survive a few days before he was killed. This would have given him enough time to have found the locket, and removed it - but possibly not to figure out how to destroy it.
Regulus was a Death Eater, and R.A.B. addressed Voldemort as 'the Dark Lord' - what the Death Eaters all call him.
Sirius told us that he had managed to find out that his brother 'panicked about what he was being asked to do, and tried to back out'. I think that this statement is most suggestive, and revealing. I think that at some point, he accidently discovered Lord Voldemort's secret, and since he knew he was going to die anyway, for his disloyalty, he thought he'd try to take some of Voldemort's soul with him.
As we know, Rowling delights in giving the faintest hints of a clue, where few would think to look. She actually said, I believe, in the Mugglenet interview, that people would be able to figure out where the locket was - if they went back and reread carefully enough. There was actually a locket a Grimmauld Place, the Black family home, when the Order were cleaning it; most people believe this is the very locket that was removed from the cave. This was from Chapter Six of Order of the Pheonix:
"There was a musical box that emitted a faintly sinister, tinkling tune when wound, and they all found themselves becoming curiously weak and sleepy, until Ginny had the sense to slam the lid shut; a heavy locket that none of them could open; a number of ancient seals; and, in a dusty box, an Order of Merlin, First Class, that had been awarded to Sirius's grandfather for 'services to the Ministry'."
Most interestingly of all, we are told that the locket would not open. If it was indeed a horcrux, then it was operating in a way that we might expect it to - it didn't want it's secret to be revealed. And it may also be that, since it was Salazar Slytherin's, it required Parseltongue to be spoken, in order for it to open. A last defense of Lord Voldemort's, to keep this item functioning as a horcrux, even if somebody had managed to remove it from the cave. Regulus wouldn't have been able to speak Parseltongue - but Harry can.
Now if you add to this my theory, at the top of the previous page, about Mundungus stealing it, and selling it on to Aberforth Dumbledore - we have the beginnings of the plot to Book Seven. I do not believe that Rowling would have included the section about Mundungus and Aberforth, if it wasn't important.
All of this leads me to believe that R.A.B. is, without a doubt, Regulus Black.
|
Furthermore, I pasted an excerpt from the Mugglenet/Leaky interview in which Jo seems to confirm that RAB is Regulus Black.
| QUOTE |
MA: R.A.B.
JKR: Ohhh, good.
[All laugh.]
JKR: No, I'm glad! Yes?
MA: Can we figure out who he is, from what we know so far?
[Note: JKR has adopted slightly evil look here]
JKR: Do you have a theory?
MA: We've come up with Regulus Black.
JKR: Have you now?
MA: Uh-oh.
[Laughter.]
JKR: Well, I think that would be, um, a fine guess.
MA: And perhaps, being Sirius’s brother, he had another mirror –
JKR: [drums fingers on soda can]
MA: Does he have the other mirror, or Sirius’s mirror —
JKR: I have no comment at all on that mirror. That mirror is not on the table. [Laughter from all; Jo's is maniacal.]
MA: Let the record note that she has drummed her fingers on her Coke can in a very Mr. Burns-like way.
[Laughter.]
JKR: Oh, I love Mr. Burns.
[...........]
MA: Is there more we should ask about him?
JKR: There are things you will deduce on further readings, I think — well you two definitely will, for sure — that, yeah, I was really hoping that R.A.B. would come out.
MA: Forgive me if I'm remembering incorrectly, but was Regulus the one who was murdered by Voldemort —
JKR: Well Sirius said he wouldn't have been because he wasn't important enough, remember?
MA: But that doesn’t have to be true, if [R.A.B.] is writing Voldemort a personal note.
JKR: That doesn't necessarily show that Voldemort killed him, personally, but Sirius himself suspected that Regulus got in a little too deep. Like Draco. He was attracted to it, but the reality of what it meant was way too much to handle. |
Okay - if you have good contra arguments to these, great...please post them. Just don't repeat anything that's been said here.
We've heard it...
Okay...carry on!
pure_blood_irish
Aug 8 2005, 04:52 PM
Well I am surprised no one has caught this before or it just hasn't been summarized:
but Regulus Black's middle name DOES begin with an "A" though I can't remember fully what it was. It was like Amphedora or something along those lines.
So R.A.B. ARE his initials. How can it be any one else? Unless JK figured people might guess it would be him in which case she just wants us to be completely surprised when some really small non-drawn out name at all from one of the first books comes back into play and makes us all feel like morons. In which case...nuts!
ALso...
I SERIOUSLY doubt that whoever wrote the note would be two people. For one, the initials would probably have to be one person because Voldemort would know them pretty good by initials. But if it was somethign along the lines of "blank" And "Blank," how would Voldemort be able to tell what two people it was. The possibilities would be endless seeing as how many Death Eaters he had working for him. The person that wrote that note wanted LV to know it was him, probably. I could be wrong but that's my two cents.
Louise
Aug 8 2005, 04:56 PM
Oh yeah, sorry...that has actually been mentioned somewhere in one of the previous threads. Regulus' middle name does begin with an A - Jo said it somewhere in OotP I think (first time ever the Lexicon has failed me here!!) but yeah, you are right.
I'm sure someone will enlighten us.
GinevraPotter
Aug 8 2005, 06:01 PM
Yes, the Lexicon failed me, as well. I don't recall Regulus's middle name being mentioned anywhere- I shall have to go and consult my copy of OotP. Popular belief is that Regulus's middle name is Alphard, which is also his uncle's name. But if his middle name had been mentioned, I doubt there would be any more doubt that he is RAB. (I'm also positive I would have remembered it- I've memorized all the character's known middle names.)
--- Gin
gayle_ferris
Aug 8 2005, 06:57 PM
I really like the idea of Regulus being R.A.B., not just because it fits, but because of what it offers story-wise in the next book. I've always seen Regulus as reluctantly following his parents' wishes, especially after Sirius let them down, only to realize too late that it wasn't who he was. I like the idea that in the end, he tried to be more like Sirius than his parents. I also like how the note bordered on being a written "flipping off" of Voldemort of sorts. A sort of "oh yeah? Well I've got your horcrux now and there's nothing you can do about it! Hah!"
In conjunction with this, there have been rumors for a while that perhaps Regulus wasn't killed. I believe there was a rumor that Stubby Boardman might have really been Regulus in disguise - which would account for the rumor in PoA that some thought Sirius Black was really Stubby Boardman. This one's a stretch, but it would be interesting if it turned out that Regulus really was still alive.
And fitting a character like that into the story, especially upon finding out that Sirius had been killed etc... That would be great. It would make up for some of the parts I didn't care for in the last book, to be sure.
There's a lot of potential in it, and I really hope that JKR uses this rather than just creating some random new character with the initials R.A.B.
hoover4_fan
Aug 8 2005, 07:01 PM
First thing that came to my mind was Regulus but it does seeem to easy to figure out and that's not what JKR wants.
Has it been said anywhere that R.A.B. is someone we allready know or for sure is someone completely new?
Nitro
Aug 8 2005, 07:06 PM
it has to be regulus cause no where else in the books does jk metion a person with the initials Rab and i dont think shell introduce a major carator in book seven
pure_blood_irish
Aug 8 2005, 07:42 PM
Well, as much as it's about 95% sure its Regulus, for the last post, JK does tend to bring in new characters that hold importance. Slughorn was just introduced in the new book and he has already been important enough to be the one that told not only Harry, but Voldemort what a horcruxe was to begin with. So all possibilities are still open...
tomziu
Aug 8 2005, 07:57 PM
To those who want to go back and look for Regulus's middle name: it has NEVER been mentioned (at least in books 3456). I've just checked it...
I must say that I'm impressed with the theory about the locket in Grimmauld place. Everything fits... Bravo!!!
GinevraPotter
Aug 8 2005, 08:13 PM
Regulus is dead, folks. Jo said in one of her interviews, when asked if we'd 'be hearing anything from Regulus' she answered, 'as he's dead, he's been pretty quiet these days.' I doubt she'd lie to us- I mean, I wholeheartedly believe he's RAB, but I also wholeheartedly believe he's dead.
-- Gin
hoover4_fan
Aug 8 2005, 08:21 PM
Yes, Ginerva i think along those lines too.
Wasn't it allready stated somewhere in like book 5 that Regulus was dead??? In the room of doxy's doesnt Sirius say something like that??? So if,and i believe although it'd be to easy to figure out, if it was him that Regulus is R.A.B. then he should be as it is also staed in the note in the locket that he'd be long dead.
Hallia
Aug 8 2005, 08:59 PM
No problem, hoover4_fan, I'll ask a mod to delete this
. Nice of you to explain, too. It makes you look good
Now I'll step out and let the discussion continue
Hpfanofbooks1234567
Aug 8 2005, 09:54 PM
i think its regulus, becuase he was killed by Voldemorts followers, but it never said wat for, and he wrote"i will be long dead before u get this" in the locket...maybe he new it was cuming so he killed a horcux.....
GinevraPotter
Aug 8 2005, 10:01 PM
Yes, Regulus's death is mentioned in OotP. Sirius tells Harry that Regulus, after panicking and trying to back out of being a Death Eater, was either killed by Voldemort, or killed on his orders.
--Gin
Hallia
Aug 8 2005, 10:07 PM
Hiya again!
Hpfanofbooks1234567, please drop by the forum rules. Netspeak is not allowed. There are a lot of non-native English speakers here, and it's difficult for them to understand netspeak sometimes. Please be a little more careful in the future.
If you need anything, just PM a Prefect or Mod and we'll help you out.
Padfoot361
Aug 8 2005, 11:27 PM
Has anyone suggested the middle name of Regulus Black?
MOD Note: One-liners are not allowed. All post must be at least 2 sentences long. Thank you.
Lord Rage
Aug 9 2005, 01:22 AM
its regalus black isnt it? because didnt he get killed by voldemort anyway.
MOD EDIT: Hi, Lord Rage and welcome to the VTM forums! I must ask you to refrain from posting one-liners, they are not allowed. Take a quick swing by the rules for me if you would! Thanks.
PerkinsCampGear
Aug 9 2005, 02:47 AM
I may be way off about this, but I think that RAB would have attempted to destroy the horcrux and that may have been what killed him instead of the deatheaters. We don't know if he came back to #12 before he died but maybe he lived long enough to destroy then hide the locket. I just wonder why nobody mentioned in Ootp that the locket had a snake emblem unless that, like the ring, part was destroyed when the horcrux was destroyed and it doesn't look like "the" locket anymore.
I also think that Dumbledore would have checked everything in his office for other signs of the horcruxes and don't think it's there.
This will be a long two year wait...PCG
.::Cho Chang::.
Aug 9 2005, 04:17 AM
I don't think that RAB is Regulus Black cuz it might be too simple to guess, maybe RAB is not a short form for a name, it may stand for a group of people or a nickname of someone
Vincent
Aug 9 2005, 05:16 AM
| QUOTE (Lord Rage @ Aug 8 2005, 07:22 PM) |
its regalus black isnt it? because didnt he get killed by voldemort anyway.
MOD EDIT: Hi, Lord Rage and welcome to the VTM forums! I must ask you to refrain from posting one-liners, they are not allowed. Take a quick swing by the rules for me if you would! Thanks. |
That's two lines, just bad grammer.
I do think that Regulus probably is R.A.B., but I'm not sure. I think that there are many, many, many possiblities. I don't know why people have cancelled out the fact that it could be someone we don't know yet, because it could very well be. I don't know. But as for my theory that could very well be incorrect, but I am just doing it because it interests me, something that could back up the
Regulus
Aberforth
Borgins theory is the fact that Aberforth(or the Hog's Head barman), bought the locket from Mundungus, which could mean that since Mundungus stole it from a safe place, he wanted to make sure no one else could purchase it. I stated before that perhaps the reason that Albus Dumbledore said that he wasen't sure if Aberforth could read was because of the potion, and it would also make more sense if those three all entered the cave together, rather then just poor old Regulus. Think about it. Regulus was a former death eater who could of possibly converted to good at the last second, Aberforth was an Order member, and Borgins is now an easily-intimitated man who owns a shop about the Dark Arts. Perhaps Borgins is a bit like the Wormtail of R.A.B., but not so much a traitor, just scared and panicked. He may never of had the guts and good in him that the other two did, but maybe he still stuck by them, and then when Aberforth lost most of his memory and such from the potion, and Regulus was killed, Borgins thought that he might be next so he made sure that he was pleasing Voldemort and the death eaters will his shop of Dark Arts stuff. Aberforth maybe remembered some of the old stuff recently, even perhaps the potions effects wore off, so he bought the locket.
Eh, just a theory.
Balderdash!
Aug 9 2005, 12:39 PM
| QUOTE (Vincent @ Aug 8 2005, 11:16 PM) |
I do think that Regulus probably is R.A.B., but I'm not sure. I think that there are many, many, many possiblities. I don't know why people have cancelled out the fact that it could be someone we don't know yet, because it could very well be. I don't know. But as for my theory that could very well be incorrect, but I am just doing it because it interests me, something that could back up the Regulus Aberforth Borgins theory is the fact that Aberforth(or the Hog's Head barman), bought the locket from Mundungus, which could mean that since Mundungus stole it from a safe place, he wanted to make sure no one else could purchase it. I stated before that perhaps the reason that Albus Dumbledore said that he wasen't sure if Aberforth could read was because of the potion, and it would also make more sense if those three all entered the cave together, rather then just poor old Regulus. Think about it. Regulus was a former death eater who could of possibly converted to good at the last second, Aberforth was an Order member, and Borgins is now an easily-intimitated man who owns a shop about the Dark Arts. Perhaps Borgins is a bit like the Wormtail of R.A.B., but not so much a traitor, just scared and panicked. He may never of had the guts and good in him that the other two did, but maybe he still stuck by them, and then when Aberforth lost most of his memory and such from the potion, and Regulus was killed, Borgins thought that he might be next so he made sure that he was pleasing Voldemort and the death eaters will his shop of Dark Arts stuff. Aberforth maybe remembered some of the old stuff recently, even perhaps the potions effects wore off, so he bought the locket.
Eh, just a theory. |
I respect your boldness in putting that theory forward, but I'm afraid I just don't think it makes any sense at all. Firstly, and most importantly, the note itself only indicates that it was supposed to be from one person - "I want you to know that it was I who discovered your secret." That's what it says. He wants Voldemort to know who it was that destroyed the horcrux, and he makes no indication that he was acting as part of a group. Whoever wrote the note was definitely acting alone.
Secondly, why on Earth would you think that Borgin might be involved? He just seems like a complete coward, and really quite a bad person. If he can be intimidated by Sixteen year-old Draco Malfoy, do you really think he would try to mess with the most powerful evil wizard in history?
| QUOTE (.::Cho Chang::.) |
| I don't think that RAB is Regulus Black cuz it might be too simple to guess, maybe RAB is not a short form for a name, it may stand for a group of people or a nickname of someone |
It's only simple to guess, because there are like, thousands of us online, who have all put our heads together, and come up with all the evidence. There are probably lots of people - fans of the books - who aren't aware of online fandom, who have no idea about who R.A.B. might be. I didn't find all that evidence in the first post myself. I didn't even think of Regulus until I logged onto Veritaserum, the Monday after finishing the book.
fanglover
Aug 10 2005, 01:25 AM
I was thinking it was Regulus Black too, but couldn't find anywhere where it listed his middle name. If his initials are indeed RAB, then why didn't Hermoine find him in the library when she went hunting for a witch/wizard with those initials?
I definately think there is MUCH more coming out about Borgins... he employed Tom Riddle, he is mentioned in every book - ever so suttlely.
The only thing that doesn't fit about Regulus being RAB is how did he do it alone? DD never would have been able to make it without Harry. Someone else had to have been with whomever retrieved the locket.
.::Cho Chang::.
Aug 10 2005, 02:07 AM
| QUOTE (fanglover @ Aug 9 2005, 07:25 PM) |
why didn't Hermoine find him in the library when she went hunting for a witch/wizard with those initials?
|
probably because JKR doesn't want the readers to guess out who RAB is, but I believe the result is always surprising, so eventhough I do hope our predictions are right, there's still a slightest chance it might turn out differently
Vincent
Aug 10 2005, 02:18 AM
I said before that the whole reason that Aberforth and Borgin were never killed was because of the fact that Regulus took the entire blame for it. Perhaps Voldemort knew of Regulus's betrayel through Legilimens or something, so Regulus decided that it would be best to take the brute of the blame if he was already going to be killed. I said in my last post that perhaps the whole reason that Borgins is as he is is due to the fact of being paranoid of Voldemort trying to kill him. I also said that Borgins maybe never had the guts and stuff that the other two had in them, but maybe he still felt as if he had to go. And also about you saying that Borgins is an unlikely geuss, didn't you say that the main reason that Regulus is a suspect is simply because of the initials? So why do you say that Borgins couldn't be it since he is one of the few with a "B"?
Tuitus
Aug 10 2005, 02:56 AM
Like many people, I immediately thought R.A.B. is most likely Regulus Black alone. Yet your theory, Vincent makes alot of sense to me.
| QUOTE |
| Firstly, and most importantly, the note itself only indicates that it was supposed to be from one person - "I want you to know that it was I who discovered your secret." That's what it says. He wants Voldemort to know who it was that destroyed the horcrux, and he makes no indication that he was acting as part of a group. Whoever wrote the note was definitely acting alone. |
Not necessesarily. It is possible that the note was written to make it seem only one person was involved to protect Aberforth and Borgin, should Voldemort ever discover the decoy. He of course, designed the cave to need more than one magic person to retrieve the locket, so Voldemort would expect at least two intruders. The note gives no indication of such, making their theft fullproof.
saralsaigh
Aug 10 2005, 03:01 AM
I agree with alot of people that is it Regulus Black because in an interview with JK after the release of HBP she said that in the 7th book there will be very few new characters and none that are of any importance so I believe it is a character that we already been introduced to which makes sense either Sirus's brother or uncle but I don't know if anyone noticed or not but Regulus was mentioned twice in the HBP unecessarily the first time was in Slughorn's house when Harry was trying to persuade him -page 71 canadian version-
| QUOTE |
| ' Well anyways he was a big pal of your father's at school. The whole Black family had been in my house, but Sirus ended up in Gryfindor! Shame - he was a talented boy. I got his brother Regulus when he came along but I'd have liked the set.' |
Didnt think it was necessary that he was mentioned there but JK seemed to slip him maybe to make sure that we havent forgotten him and she mentions him again this time Remus Lupin at the Burrow was saying;
| QUOTE |
| 'There have been another couple of Dementor attacks,' he announced as Mrs Weasley passed him a large slice of birthday cake. 'And they've found Igor Karkaroff's body in a shack up north. The Dark Mark had been set over it well frankly I am surprised he stayed alive for even a year after deserting the Death Eaters; Sirus's brother Regulus only managed a few days as far as I can remember.' |
That was page 103 Canadian version
I dont know why JK would slip him in maybe I am just trying to cling to anything but i cant help thinking that if no new important characters will be introduced that Regulus is our best guess...
Edited to add that I dont think the Regulus was not alone I think he did it without help and that was probably because he was a death eater and knew more about voldemort than dumbledore did at that moment besides if he could figure out Voldemort's secret without Voldemort confinding in him (Dumbledore thought that voldemort would never tell anyone his secret) then that means he is a ver powerful wizard idk i just dont think that he had someone else with him because he ended up dying alone yet i have been playing with the idea that snape helped him...but i think that is far from true...
marvgnt
Aug 10 2005, 04:05 AM
Yah about the regulus theory, it seems strange that Rowling would introduce a character that is dead. (And from what I hear Rowling said doesn't look like he's one of those characters that we only think is dead but really is an animagus/ in another person's body, coming back to life etc. )That's what mainly makes me believe that Regulus can't be the guy. Besides, the way Sirius talks about him makes him seem pretty stupid (like he got in with the wrong crowds almost by giving into peer pressure) and it didn't seem very easy to figure out how to get through the whole cave and find the horcrux. Harry's a pretty smart wizard with only a year left at hogwarts and he had no idea what the hell dumbledore was doing to get into and through that cave. Dumbledore really only knew about the cave because he knew about Voldemort's childhood and Regulus isn't even old enough to know things like that. I'd suspect that the person is still alive and probably around Voldemort's age and level. Sorta like a hidden genius that we have not yet met. Just my ideas.
ShadowLor
Aug 10 2005, 04:42 AM
I just wanted to add that Regulus was mention 3 times in the book. The two mentioned above and
| QUOTE |
"Black family tradition decreed that the house was handed down the direct line, to the next male with the name of 'Black.' Sirius was the very last of the
line as his younger brother, Regulus, predeceased him and both were childless. |
by Dumbledore
If Regulus wasen't dead the house would have gone to him not Harry. So thats Proof hes dead I believe.
Also I think that Regulus could have found out about the Horcruxes from Slughorn since its stated that they knew eachother.
Forgive me if thats all been mentioned before tho.
Vincent
Aug 10 2005, 05:31 AM
Well, I believe that everyone who has said that he may be alive were thinking that he was still believed dead, so the house wouldn't go to him. They were thinking along the lines of him going into hiding and stuff.
ShadowLor
Aug 10 2005, 06:27 AM
I just thought the house might know whos next in line in some magical way.
The house was left to Harry anyway so even if it would have liked to have gone to Regulus obviously it diden't. I agree he could be hideing no reason its not possible plenty of spells to hide people.
Balderdash!
Aug 10 2005, 08:43 AM
| QUOTE (Tuitus) |
| Not necessesarily. It is possible that the note was written to make it seem only one person was involved to protect Aberforth and Borgin, should Voldemort ever discover the decoy. He of course, designed the cave to need more than one magic person to retrieve the locket, so Voldemort would expect at least two intruders. The note gives no indication of such, making their theft fullproof. |
Yes, but Vincent's whole theory began with the initials, if you remember. Regulus, Aberforth & Borgin, is what he said. If what you're saying is true, then Regulus wouldn't have put the other people's initials on there as well.
And how could two other people have gotten across the lake in the cave? Dumbledore said that Harry only got across the lake because his powers were insignificant next to his own powers. How then would Aberforth and Borgin have both managed to get across?
| QUOTE (Vincent) |
| And also about you saying that Borgins is an unlikely geuss, didn't you say that the main reason that Regulus is a suspect is simply because of the initials? So why do you say that Borgins couldn't be it since he is one of the few with a "B"? |
I did indeed, and since I'm not sure what his first name is - perhaps you could tell me? I don't remember where it was mentioned in the books.
However, I just don't think he would have anything to do with this; he simply isn't that kind of person. You must concede, surely, that he would not be a likely candidate - look at the way he treats the Malfoys, he's like their servant; bowing to them and everything. Why would Regulus want to take someone like that with him?
I do think that it's actually possible that Regulus had someone else with him, but I don't think that it was either of the people Vincent suggested. I think that it's possible - and this is a purely baseless theory - that he brought Kreacher with him. Or at least, summoned him to him when he reached the centre of the lake. Kreacher would've been bound to him, and would've protected his secrets. And he would have obeyed Regulus's orders: if Regulus had ordered him to drink the potion, in the basin where the locket was, then he would've done it.
Plus, when he was scavenging the house in OotP, looking for Black family heirlooms - maybe it was really because he was trying to protect the horcrux. His loyalties obviously lie with Lord Voldemort, and if he knew what the locket was, he would have done everything he could, while he wasn't under orders to do otherwise, to keep that locket from falling into the wrong hands (ie. the Order of the Pheonix).
I don't really have much evidence to support this idea, admittedly, but I think this is much more likely than the notion that Aberforth Dumbledore and Borgin were somehow in on it. There is no indication in the books that the three of them really even knew each other particularly well, at any point.
magic master
Aug 10 2005, 12:31 PM
Well, I think that R.A.B is refering to Regulus Black. There is a name in the Oop...Araminta...a cousin of Sirius' and Regulus' mother if I remember correctly. Now it could be that it is a woman...it sound very feminine but I thought Blaise Zabini was a girl but he turned out to be male. It could be Regulus Araminta Black?
As for it being more that one person, the note uses 'I'. Wouldn't more than one person use 'we'?
blink182
Aug 10 2005, 01:32 PM
I think Regulus Black makes sense
.Ja ma tean et postitus peab kaks lauset pikk olema sellepärast panen selle lause ka
.
Balderdash!
Aug 10 2005, 01:47 PM
| QUOTE (blink182 @ Aug 10 2005, 07:37 AM) |
| Really can anybody explain me how Regulus would have dropped the letter where harry found it? |
I think you should read the end of the book again. Dumbledore had it. It was in the locket they found; the fake horcrux. They found it in the cave, and Dumbledore had it in his pocket. And then it fell out of his pocket when he fell off of the tower, and Harry recovered it.
vulturemort
Aug 10 2005, 04:46 PM
I'm just wondering. I can't remember if Harry actually had a chance to see what the real locket looked like. Was there a pensieve scene with it or did we simply find out that it was fake due to the note? If Harry doesn't know what it looks like, the only way he can find it is through the person that took it in the first place. This could be a possible connection for Kreacher. If it was Regalus, and he used Kreacher to get the Horcrux, Kreacher would be the only one that knows what it really looks like. It is difficult to find something when you don't know what it looks like. Could Harry simply order Kreacher to spill his guts on the subject?
I know that there is some sort of description of the locket having a snake on it. Where did this come from? I can't recall.
Vincent
Aug 10 2005, 04:51 PM
| QUOTE (magic master @ Aug 10 2005, 06:31 AM) |
As for it being more that one person, the note uses 'I'. Wouldn't more than one person use 'we'? |
How many times do I have to keep repeating the same things? I stated that perhaps Regulus was taking the blame of it by himself to protect the other two, then Tuitus said that too.
MOD EDIT : Please be nice, Vincent. I know that it's frustrating when new members repeat things, but unfortunately, I think it's being unrealistic to expect them to read through everything that's been said before, even though ideally, that's what we would all prefer and would be the polite thing to do. It's better just not to comment at all or just say, 'we've already covered that' or something like that. It just sounds a little less edgy and is less likely to discourage people from posting again.
saralsaigh
Aug 10 2005, 05:28 PM
| QUOTE (vulturemort @ Aug 10 2005, 10:46 AM) |
| I'm just wondering. I can't remember if Harry actually had a chance to see what the real locket looked like. Was there a pensieve scene with it or did we simply find out that it was fake due to the note? |
Yes Harry did see the Locket in the pensieve in the memory of the ministry official when Marvolo showed him the ring and the locket to prove that they were decendants of Slytherin and they weren't filth...so Harry does know wat the locket looks like...
juans90
Aug 10 2005, 06:02 PM
harry saw the locket in the pensieve... i support the theory of the locket beign at grimmauld place, and this gives even more reasons for regulus being RAB... and i don't think that RAB is mor than one person
GinevraPotter
Aug 10 2005, 08:35 PM
The main reason I think RAB is Regulus is because of the locket that could not be opened in Grimmauld Place. I know it was only mentioned briefly, but there's a great possibility that it is the true Horcrux. And since Grimmauld Place was obviously Regulus's childhood home, it's not hard to see where most people put two and two together.
I believe that the locket may have been stolen by Mundungus, so Harry & Co. will have to search around for it.
I'm also starting to believe that RAB won't necessarily be as important to the plot as the Horcruxes themselves, so maybe it doesn't really matter that Regulus is too 'obviously' RAB. If you see what I'm getting at- I confuse even me sometimes.
-- Gin
InLoveW/Ginny
Aug 10 2005, 09:24 PM
[/QUOTE]Regulus would really be too simple guess....i don't think we can figure it out from the past books....it's probably going to be somethin like the HBP...u know...it's like a nickname but whoever she/he will be i think it's going to be someone we know(like one of the teachers or a student) but we just don't know the nickname because harry found the note near the castle
But it doesn't make sense that Regulus would have dropped it there, does it???
But what about that Rosmerta...what would be her middle and last name?
it wouldn't be exciting either if she turns out to be RAB
[QUOTE]
I don't think that it's a nickname for someone that we know already (such as a teacher or a student) because any teacher or student who is A)powerful enough to retreive the Horcrux and B)against Voldemort to the point that they would risk their lives to bring him down would be working with Albus Dumbledore if he could. If this person was a teacher or a student, then Dumbledore would have known about them and, consequently, would have known that the Horcrux was taken already. Why would he take himself and Harry to the cave if he knew that the Horcrux wasn't there? Also, I refuse to believe that it was Rosmerta because if she was powerful enough to retrieve the Horcrux, she certainly would not have been stupid enough to have been put under the Imperius Curse by Draco Malfoy.
On a different note, is anyone else worried that Harry's powers don't even register when compared to Dumbledore's? Dumbledore had troubles fighting Voldemort even as powerful as he is.... how is Harry going to fight him? There just doesn't seem to be enough time for him to learn the kind of power wielded by Voldemort and Dumbledore. (sorry about the side-bar... probably belongs in a different post). That is all
GinnyLover
Vincent
Aug 10 2005, 09:35 PM
Yes, you're right Dana. Sorry about that.
InLoveW/Ginny- Regulus never made any good impressions either about being powerful enough, so I don't think we should rule out anyone just for that reason alone.
treacle_tart
Aug 10 2005, 10:00 PM
| QUOTE (InLoveW/Ginny @ Aug 10 2005, 03:24 PM) |
| On a different note, is anyone else worried that Harry's powers don't even register when compared to Dumbledore's? Dumbledore had troubles fighting Voldemort even as powerful as he is.... how is Harry going to fight him? There just doesn't seem to be enough time for him to learn the kind of power wielded by Voldemort and Dumbledore. (sorry about the side-bar... probably belongs in a different post). That is all |
I think Harry is a great wizard. In Chapter 2 Snape is describing Harry as nothing extraordinary and a lucky kid who had help from friends. However, I believe that Snape was downplaying his impressions of Harry. (Yes, I'm in the camp that Snape is protecting Harry and on the "right" side). Also, as Snape was fleeing with Draco at the end of the book, he was still "helping" Harry by telling him to shut his mind and blocking all the unforgivable curses.
Also, Dd did tell Harry that when he comes of age at 17, he will become a man and the protection of his blood (the Dursleys) will come to an end. I think Dd was warning Harry that he needed to continue to learn...maybe that's why he made Snape the Professor of the Dark Arts.
~Ginny_Potter~
Aug 10 2005, 10:31 PM
*squirms in chair* I can't wait to find out who he is!
Hi there, please check out the rules here. One liners are not allowed on the vtm forum. Thanks Shane
El Verte Veritas
Aug 10 2005, 11:13 PM
I think we have to consider what R.A.B. had to do in order to do what he did. I think the thought that thinks thoughts that think thinkly thoughts.
No but really, what would he have needed to do:
1. He (or she) had to have learned about the horcruxes either by becoming a death eater, or being part of a Slug Club.
2. He (or she) would have to have to be dead.
3. He (or she) knew about Voldemorts past, in order to know about the cave.
4. He (or she) planned to do something else than steal the horcruxes, that may have gotten him or her killed. "I know I will be dead long before you read this". The only way Voldemort would know about the horcrux stealing is if he read that note.
5. In contrast to the theory of #4, perhaps he thought he would die by some other means.
6. The person who accompanied him or her, had little or no magical power.
If we find out who accompanied the person, we may be able to figure out who they are...
Darth_Oz
Aug 11 2005, 08:29 AM
Has anyone went back through the PS/SS to check RAB? There were a lot of names mentioned at the beginning that you kind of skirt over.
In any case, I think the identity of RAB is little but an interesting sub-plot as they're probably dead and can do little to influence the story any further.
Maybe a more interesting question is "WHEN did RAB find the horcrux?" Maybe...
Darth_Oz
Aug 11 2005, 09:38 AM
Sorry for double-posting but as it doesn't relate directly to my last, I hope the mods will forgive me?
Is there no chance at all that R.A.B. could in fact be Robert 'Bertie' Bott, purveyor of the finest every-flavour bean in the wizarding world?
It's such a long-shot that it needs a telescopic sight but it's better out than in!
InLoveW/Ginny
Aug 11 2005, 02:23 PM
| QUOTE |
| I think Harry is a great wizard. |
treacle, don't get me wrong. I think that Harry is a very powerful wizard, too. I mean, the dude could summon a corporeal patronus at the age of 15. I'm just a little too conscious of the fact that there is only one book left and, as far as I can see, it seems like the kind of power that Harry needs to defeat Voldemort needs to be learned through a lifetime of studying magic... not 600 pages of a book. Then again, who knows how long the time frame for the next book will be... maybe this one will last longer than a year. And I know I've mentioned this before, but it bears repeating... what about the priori incantatum? Won't that stop Voldemort and Harry from dueling? 
Darth, I don't think that R.A.B is Bernie Bott, but I commend you for thinking outside of the box. I still think that it's Regulous Black. Furthermore, I think that it sounds like a perfect JKR plot to have R.A.B. still be alive and in hiding or something. Just because he thought he was going to die, doesn't mean that he did.
Great list, Veritas! Way to boil it down to simplest terms. The only thing I would take out is number 2 because he or she doesn't necessarily have to be dead. And I would add that whoever took the Horcrux was either not a huge supporter of Dumbledore or, at the very least, not known or friendly with him. Otherwise, I contest that he or she would have told Dumbledore in the hopes that more Horcruxes could be found and Voldemort would be destroyed. I think that Regulus fits this criteria specifically. Perhaps he didn't trust Dumbledore because he used to be a Voldemort supporter and he still views Dumbledore as a blood traitor, so he didn't tell him (Dumbledore) about it. Plus, it's too convenient for Kreacher to be hanging around. He is way too wacked out of his gourd to just be old and I think that Regulus made him drink the potion which seriously messed with the elf's mind.GinnyLover
blink182
Aug 11 2005, 02:30 PM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
MOD EDIT : Check you PM's please.
kipsy
Aug 11 2005, 03:10 PM
blink182,
Posts like that aren't accepted here on VTM. This place is praised for good long discussions, and if not everyone can make an effort to contribute, then it's harder to continue for others who WANT to, to do so. Spam is certainly not acceptable here of any kind, so if you're bored by others posts, or tired, then don't come on here and read them. You shouldn't stay on here clogging up the forums with pointless posts. It takes up mod's time and it takes up others time that aren't here for that. Next time, try to add to more to discussion. If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.
IanThomas
Aug 11 2005, 03:47 PM
Im a newbie at this hoel thing and was interested to find out who people thought was RAB. i admit i havent read all of this thread but most of it, but im apologizin in advance if im pointin out somethin that some1 had pointed out already. well here goes. i went back into OotP and the blacks uncle's (regulus' and Serius') name was Alphard. I would not say that it was not imposible for this Regulus' name to be Regulus Alphard Black, seein as names do tend to run in the family. I think puttin all the evidence mentioned in the "NOble and Most Ancient House of Black" chapter, with the locket makin all of them go funny, CANNOT be a coincidence. i think JK is very smart and likes to keep us guessing HOWEVER, how many times has she done that now??? A LOT! i think she expects most people to have forgotten bout regulus by now and therefore would just go with that, aim at them....now wont it be a let down if it is regulus, all this second guessin would have been for nothing....i guess thats what u call book spoiling.
MOD EDIT : Hiya and welcome to the forums! Could I ask you to please take few minutes to have a read through the rules? Netspeak ('some1', 'u') is not allowed on the forums. They should have been there when you signed up, but they're more detailed in the 'rules' forum. Thanks.