Trust me, Dumbledore's Window, I know what you mean. There are things I can't seem to express in words, and this topic is one of them. I could stay here and say why I support the "double-H's" or discredit the "tension" between Ron and Hermione, but the basic fact that drives me on is that it just feels wrong. I don't know why, but it does. The bickering gets on my nerves, it's in no way "cute" or "supportive", and there seems to be a lack of deeper care than what's on the surface between Ron and Hermione. End of story.

As for Ron's character, though, I say that I like it separate from his relationship with Hermione (or lack thereof... ). He provides good comic relief, if you will, for the story and is a loyal friend to Harry. And there's nothing wrong with Hermione either. She's my favorite female character (Harry would be the male equivalent) and a great person. But put them together and my approval drops drastically.

Finally, in relation to the fact that all the Ron and Hermione shippers say we "hate" or "dislike" Ron, they do have a point. Most of our arguments are based more heavily off Ron than Hermione, but I believe that is because he's the one who started this whole thing. Remember, he was the one who fancied Hermione and not the other way around. We have no real evidence Hermione has actually ever fancied Ron, for that matter. True she becomes jealous and irritated by his attitude towards other girls and relationships, but it seems to be that he's "hopelessly tactless" and she expects him to grow out of it - which he has yet to do.

It all rides on the last pages of book 7.

I think you're contradicting yourself, Luna. Perhaps it'll reads better if you say that she isn't really a boyfriend kinda person...with Ron ...which I would agree with you 100%.

I wasn't sure whether to post this here or in the H/Hr support thread, but as it pertains mostly to the negative support of R/Hr, I thought I'll give it a go:

After perusing the R/Hr Supporters thread (I like reading all sides of any "ships"; there are some valid points...maybe I'm just eccentric) a point was made that the books follow mostly Harry's experience and that despite Ron and Hermione's bickering, we don't follow their story outside of Harry's peripheral experience. Which is true. R/Hr only exists to the reader when Harry is involved. Naturally, their interaction outside of Harry's bubble is unknown and is ultimately speculative.

So its a little bit irksome when H/Hr Supporters are called "delusional". As far as the books are concerned, R/Hr have not materialized, stated numerously here and elsewhere. The argument that their relationship exists outside of Harry's experience is also a speculative one which is open for interpretation much like how H/Hr shippers speculate/interpret theirs.

There is no speculation that R/Hr bicker, are argumentative, and clash. Interpretation of these written events changes perceptions but I don't see how, based on the books, supported of H/Hr can be faulted for having speculated on that "ship". Basing one's argument solely on verbatim interviews and experiences that have not appeared in the books in writing is also inconclusive (paraphrasing what others have said before about interviews).

Ron and Hermione may be snogging or having intimate/angsty moments outside of the Harry Potter narrative. Just because we haven't read it, doesn't mean it isn't developing/happening. But with that in mind, and with the fact that H/Hrs are doing the same thing, how does the argument (that R/Hrs relationship exists outside of Harry's experience/narrative) hold up? What is clear is that these two individuals just can't seem to get it together. One can quote other sources, movies, and anything else to justify one's position, but at the end of the day, this is the reality of the books.

Sorry 'bout the rant, but with the recent (and unfounded) animosity towards H/Hrs, I just wanted to try and clear up valid (and otherwise) justifications. Correct me anywhere if I'm wrong.

By the same token, they might not be. And if all of the yelling and 'cold shoulders' were anything to go by, I doubt it. But I do see your point. The possibility is there.

It doesn't hold up. Specualtion is the currency of shipping.

Actually, it's been a real sore point between the two ships - what is and isn't 'canon'. How do you differentiate between legitimate subtext (i.e. what isn't explicitly written, but is nevertheless implied in the text) and what is just purely inventive speculation on the part of the reader? When OotP rolled around for instance, there was the strident assertion that Ron and Hermione were not only prefects but *were* having a "secret romance" beyond Harry's view and that the perfume and other abstract instances were clear proof that they *were* together, and that this would be revealed in book 6. There was also speculation floating around that Hermione had a difficult relationship with her parents, because they were never in the text, and that they opposed her 'romance' with Ron.

Well, 6 books later and Ron and Hermione still aren't actually together, which debunks so much past specualtion. But as you point out, R/Hr speculation is not considered to be of the 'delusional' variety, no matter how off-track or wrong it might actually be.
Because R/Hr now appears to be on the verge of a relationship, then any erroneous speculation from the past can be waived aside and forgotten.

Amen. To me, that is rather significant - the lack of co-operation or any sign of togetherness between these two. I just don't see how sporadic instances of civilised behaviour, or kindness towards each other in extreme circumstances would be enough to flesh out a proper, every-day type of relationship.

Just as Nymphe has been arguing in her signature there is "neither R/Hr (or H/G) at the end of HBP - a fact which is oddly overlooked by most ships. R/Hr may finally get together, but the fact is that they will only come together (if they do at all) in the 7th book. It hasn't actually happened yet, yet a victory is already being proclaimed.

Just a quote that I found, I believe it's from a song actually. Anyways, I believe that it is saying that everybody at some stage falls into a similar state because we like the feelings attached to being in love. It's exciting, and the thought that someone thinking about you at night will make people go crazy! I mean, who could resist such goodness, but let's not mistake it for the real thing.

This infatuation, or 'crush stage' is nice, all right, and a normal thing for teens. One day you think that you are going to die because you have seen him with another girl, and the next day, his arm slowly brushed against your's and your in a whole different world where you couldn't be happier. Infatuation is an emotional roller coaster. But it isn't love. Instead, it's a normal stage which everyone goes through.. Your very first crush, day dreaming or being extremly jealous of someone, is all a phase.

A big difference between infatuation and love, is that infatuation is instant and more a physical attraction and love is slow. This mean's like it's sort of 'love at first sight'. Do we really know why Ron likes Hermione? Could it be merely just physical attraction? Another big reason: infatuation triggers insecurity, while love can bring confidence.. Again, going back to emotional roller coster.

If I could describe R/Hr's relationship, I would describe it as: nervous, jealous and insecure, simply for the reasons stated above. I wouldn't mind if they got together if they show some real feelings in stead of just the 'crush stage'.

-Dominique

I actually like that explanation because Ron is the type of person who says exactly what is on his mind and does not hide his reactions. Just chalk it up to another reason why I have trouble seeing R/Hr.

BTW, my favorite character is the trio itself and I would not mind it at all if none of them got with anyone, although I do like Hr/H, H/L and R/L.

I never thought or knew about "ships" until after HBP...I simply started reading fanfiction starting in January. We have no indication that Hr/V is anything more than friends, so I doubt revenge is a motive on Viktor's part. If anything, I could see Viktor hiding out somewhere because his headmaster had died.

For the most part all of the romance in HBP was simply a smokescreen. Rowling claims she knew nothing about the shipping wars until after OotP was published, so she is using this as a smokescreen as well. Could red herrings have red hair? Could we have no pairings in the final book?

After that interview, I am more determined to "crack the code" in these books and I am not alone in that sentiment.

Well, we know Viktor is definitely in the last book and all those things in the fourth book meant more than friendship!
Though im sure Krum isn’t the kind of revenge person, he will be at the Yule ball so there will be some kind of muddle up. Krum expects Hermione to dance with him and so does ron so what does poor hermione do? Dance with no one? And Ginny would want to dance with Harry even though it would be so embarrassing for Harry in front of the Weasleys!

You are assuming the trio are going back for more schooling; they won't have time for dating during their search for the horcruxes. I am hoping Krum will be at the wedding so we can get that drama finished. We do not know what is going on in Hermione's head or what transpired with Viktor. For all we know, Ginny could have exaggerated.

From the way Ron and Hermione behave, somehow I doubt they've had a heart-to-heart; although if they did, it was when Harry was knocked out in the hospital (which would explain her absence after Harry awakened).

no i was reffering to what i think will happen at the wedding of bill, and even if ginny was exaggerating how is harry going to know that. he likes her and i dont think hes going to rest until he's with her! anyway krum is definitely going to be there as he was a champion in the tournament too with fleur so i cant wait till that part! ron and krum fighting over hermione the *smarty* but now *pretty* and soon *the problem between krum and ron*...hehe

To me, their fighting is very much like the fighting I did with my siblings--jealous is not the issue, but competition for Harry's friendship may be at the root of it. To say it is only jealousy cheapens the story; these characters are more complex than that. The bottom line: Hermione is the mystery in all of this. Why would Ron want to be with someone who is seemingly obsessed with his best friend?

from Nymphe

the answer to the question that i put in bold: its not obvious that harry likes hermione

I know I'm getting off topic a little, but I do want to address the, "it isn't obvious that Harry likes Hermione" post above. I agree that it isn't 'obvious' that Harry likes Hermione. That's what makes the shipping in the HP novels so intriguing. It really is what the reader feels and believes. We Harmonians see that the final outcome WILL be H/Hr. Still, others see it differently. I know that Harry respects Hermione's intellect and regards her as one of his closest and dearest friends, but I just don't think that he realizes YET just how he feels about her. I'm hoping that in the final book, Harry will realize just how much he loves Hermione.

I personally feel that it is quite obvious (in the books and in the movies) that Hermione likes Harry. I also believe that Ron may very well realize that Hermione likes Harry. But, the shipping in HBP was just plain topsy-turvy! Harry follows his 'monster' (not his heart) and pairs up with Ginny. Ron has something to prove (after Ginny's viscious accusations) and thus ends up with Lavender. Hermione, is so out of character and is literally having a 'melt down' in HBP! It's no wonder that I feel that HBP is a confusing book!

Quote genealogy_girl:

In short, this is why I dislike Ron and Hermione as a romantic pairing. They simply don't appreciate each other. Hermione doesn't seem to respect Ron - at the very least, she doesn't have confidence in him and his abliities. Ron is jealous and insecure by nature and NEEDS someone who appreciates him and builds him up...like...Luna!

I concur! Ron needs Luna. Who else is gonna give him onions?! lol.

Ron and Hermione....bah. I so-so like it as the high school couple but I don't see them together after Hogwarts. They just don't work. I know "opposites attract" but come on -- they haven't attracted yet, so let's just stop forcing them together!

Plus, he makes her cry. And not in the good way. That's a biiiig no-no.

Like ron aka cool dude said, I love both of them but they just can't work together.

-HerMyOhNee

Yeah, I agree. Since the books are from Harry's perspective, we see things the way he sees them. We see that he thinks that Ron likes Hermione, and vice-versa. Frankly, I don't see Ron as liking Hermione in a romantic way. If he does, why is he constantly so mean-spirited to her? I see where Ron had a great opportunity (in book 6) to ask Hermione out. But, he didn't. Why not? I think it's because he doesn't like her as a girfriend. As for Hermione, well, I have always been of the belief that she likes Harry, and more than just as a friend. But, she knows that Harry is interested in other girls (namely, Cho in 5th year and Ginny in 6th year). I often wonder what it's going to take for Harry to realize that Ron doesn't like Hermione in a romantic way? What will happen in book seven that will bring Harry and Hermione together? I know that these are rhetorical questions, as we have no real clues as to how JKR will finalize her series. But, it would be fun just guessing!