Hello everybody; we're going to give anti-ship threads a chance, otherwise known as Venom threads. There are VERY STRICT rules for these threads.

This is a privilege that we have decided to try on the forums to give people a chance to express their feelings against particular ships because there is currently no place to do so. This privilege WILL be revoked if people abuse it - this is an idea we are trying purely on a trial basis so if it gets pulled, you will only have yourselves to blame.

The mods respectfully request that you behave with maturity, decorum and respect for other fans in here and strongly recommend that you familiarise yourself with the VTM rules which are different to those you may have come across in other forums. Ignorance of the rules is NOT a defence.

These are NOT debate threads - they are purely for NON-SUPPORTERS of ships.

1. Members who support the ships being discussed here are strongly advised to stay away. You WILL see things that will upset, annoy and anger you. The purpose of these threads is for people to have a place to freely vent with like-minded people, but NOT to argue. Supporters have their own threads, people who hate certain characters/ships need to have a place to vent to that is free from retaliatory/argumentative posts or flames (nasty, personal remarks)

2. These are NOT debate threads - there is no case to answer. The mods DO NOT want to see defensive posts in these threads.

3. All Veritaserum rules still apply - no cursing, abuse, nastiness or personal attacks will be tolerated here. You may feel free to criticise the character/ship as much as you like because they are fictional and you're not hurting anyone, but DO NOT attack REAL people, DO NOT attack Jo Rowling personally who worked very hard to create this series that we all love (although you may express dissatisfaction, so long as you do it POLITELY) and DO NOT attack the opinions, intelligence or make other personal remarks about the fans who support these ships. That behaviour WILL NOT be tolerated. Such posts will be met with official warnings and a restriction of your posting privileges.

4. Please do not argue against one ship on the basis that another is more likely. These threads are ONLY for discussing the reasons why you don't like THIS PARTICULAR SHIP - the fact that you prefer another is NOT a valid argument.

5. These threads are not to be opened by regular members; any Venom threads not opened by a moderator will be locked as they have in the past.

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This thread is for non-supporters of the Ron/Hermione pairing; supporters of Ron/Hermione have their own threads, and these rules will be just as strictly enforced as are the regular shipping rules.

So have fun.

Yay!
I'm the first person to post on this!
Yay!
Okay, I really hate the idea of Ron and Hermione hooking up. Ron is too dumb and immature for her. And plus, they were friends first; everyone knows that relationships don't work out between friends. I mean, if they've been friends for a while. Sort of like Ron and Hermione.
Actually I wouldn't know much about relationships since I'm only 12 years old, but that's what I've heard.

I'm a H/HR shipper, and I don't think that Ron and Hermione belong together. It's just this... gut feeling you know? Harry and Hermione just must end up together!

Ron and Hermione? Nope. No way! I mean, they fight all the time! People think fighting is cute? To some extent yes, I agree, but didn't you read how bad Ron was treating Hermione?! Yes, I've heard the 'he'll pull your hair if he likes you' kind of line... but I mean, Ron and Hermione have gone waay past the line of pulling hair. I really hope they don't get together, it just... wouldn't be right...

Harry deserves someone as good as Hermione. He deserves a person who can comfort him through all the hard times that he has been through. Then Ginny popped up, and all of a sudden Harry's stomach does back flips? No, that doesn't seem right! Oh, and poor Hermione... Harry is with Ginny, and Ron's with Lavender... Hermione just feels... left out.

Here's what I think will happen in the seventh book. In the end, Harry will have the huge ending fight with Voldemort, and they will both die. Sadly yes, I'm afraid that that will happen. If J.K Rowling doesn't kill off Harry Potter, people would want her to write book 8, and then book 9 and so on... People would want to know all these things, if Harry became an auror, if he hooked up with anybody, did he hook up with anybody and all this other stuff... And I read somewhere, or saw, I don't remember, that J.K said she wasn't writing another 8th book... but who knows, I could be wrong! Anyways, when Harry is killed by Voldemort, Harry's last words will be:

"Hermione... I love you, and I always have..."

Well... I'm keeping my fingeres crossed Oh my, what a long post, I should stop rambling on...

-Dominique

I have no particular objection to a relationship between Ron and Hermione (I do not consider myself an extremely fervent shipper; I have been known to support both H/Hr and R/Hr in the past, and in the wake of HBP I have been positively anti-ship), but I must say that I absolutely hated the way the romance came about in Book Six.

I have always found all the bickering (apparently JKR's way of conveying their undying love for one another) slightly extreme -- whatever people might think, this is definitely not a normal way for teenagers to react to one another; most people, in my extremely limited experience, do not express attraction by constant arguing -- but HBP took things way over the top. The constant flirting, fighting, and dancing around feelings, in my opinion, severely damaged the characters of Ron and Hermione in Book Six.

As I've said elsewhere on the forums, I've always considered Hermione a person (albeit a fictional one) to whom I can relate -- I read a lot, I'm slightly obsessive about grades and test scores, I like to consider myself loyal/trustworthy, and I definitely have very little social life to speak of -- but whatever personal connection I felt to her was destroyed in HBP. The Krum thing in GoF was ridiculous, but at the time that I read the book, I thought it was a stage that would simply pass. My feelings were reinforced when it became extremely clear in OotP that she had no intentions of furthering their relationship, and for a while, JKR had actually hoodwinked me into believing that Hermione truly sought a platonic friendship with Krum.

How very wrong I was.

In HBP, Hermione's stint with McLaggen made it clear that the Krum romance was not in fact an abberance in her character, but in fact, the beginnings of a new modus operandi. She doesn't give a hoot about any of these guys -- her sole purpose is to leverage her sexuality to attract Ron! A scarlet woman if I ever saw one... and certainly not the attitude appropriate for the female protagonist of the series.

Ron is, if anything, worse (though granted, Hermione was a larger disappointment to me personally, since I had always felt that she was one of the series' most respectable characters). Not only does Ron engage in a similarly ridiculous relationship with Lavender Brown in hopes of winning Hermione's love -- or shall we say, lust -- but he took his fifteen-year-old sister's word for it that 'really snogging' is the first step on the path to maturity! You can bet your bottom dollar that I draw a direct correlation between these serious characterization flaws and the 'budding romance' between the 'loving couple.' If this is JKR's idea of teen romance... wow.

The upshot of it all is that now, as I re-read certain chapters of the first five books, I see painfully obvious hints all over the place that this is the direction these 'respectable' characters would take. The Boggart scene in PoA is most telling of all -- a spider? Professor McGonagall reporting failing grades?! What kinds of shallow fears are these, for two kids who know that Lord Voldemort is out there and repeatedly attempting to murder their best friend?

The Ron/Hermione romance, in my opinion, draws out the worst in both characters... as do all of the child romances in the series. Lupin/Tonks... yeah, that I'll buy into. But I truly believe that JKR has run into a wall in the relationship department -- I found the means by which the Ron/Hermione romance evolved completely and utterly implausible.

I'd used to be able to say I could relate to Hermione in some respects. The same went for Harry. Up 'till HBP, I'd been able to say that I was a mix between the two, almost perfectly, what with the messy, brown hair and the smart personality to live up to. Then July 16th arived... I guess I was wrong...

I never knew Hermione could act so... out of character. Was it just me, or did JKR just all the sudden turn several people's personalities around in HBP? Hermione getting flings to catch Ron's eye?!? How much more insane could she get?!? She's the sensible one! She's the one who's always got her head in a book! If she's not helping someone, she's trying to save Harry's life or urging Ron to get his homework done! Since when does she use her untouched teen ways to draw up someone else's jealosy? Isn't she the one who is supposed to be in tune with emotions? Doesn't she know that relationships built on jealousy are ludicris?!? Oi... I was preoccupied throughout all of HBP from seeing how OoC JKR made them this time... Ruined the ending's feel for me...

*Sigh* Yet another book where R/Hr fight. During the first four books, I didnt mind too much. No, I didn't think it was cute or sweet, more like a bit menacing but back then, I was willing to believe it was attraction. A little boy realizing that his bestfriend was a girl and then liking her wasnt that big of a stretch for me. However, pulling that feeling through six books (and a probable seventh) just gets tiring and bland and frustrating. You could say that only true love would make it last that long, but the way they communicate hasn't evolved past hitting the lower blow! They're seventeen now. I expected this sort of 'romantic' interaction in PoA and GoF, but for it to be still around four years later calls for a good intervention. Some sort of peace treaty has to be made for both the sanity of the characters surrounding the two (Harry's frustration OotP being a prime example) and the readers that have to suffer through it.

A major hint for R/Hr was supposedly in PoA the book, JKR said it herself. The only thing I see as major between Ron and Hermione then was the fight they had over scabbers and crookshanks. Again, I wonder why JKR chose to reveal this to us. As I said in the other venom thread, the H/G beginning was apparently the 9 3/4 scene. For this ship, its apparently a big blow out between them. A horrible example of blooming love since it turns out that Ron makes Hermione cry. Some will say that they're kids confused about unfamiliar feelings, we should expect that sort of behavior. Well then, why is it that three years later with plenty of time to grow up, Ron proves to repeat history and makes Hermione cry again.

Don't get me wrong, Hermione isn't off the hook. Perhaps calling the character's OoC is the wrong term seeing as JKR was the one to write them that way, but what other word could there really be to describe Hermione's un-hermione-ness? She was the perfect character, not like a Mary-Sue but perfect in the sense that she spoke to a part of every reader. Before HBP, Hermione was smart about books and strong about her convictions. Her fear of failure and severe insecurity endeared her to readers because those were flaws everyone had at one point in their life. She was mature and had a wonderful sense of logic that probably kept Harry alive most of the time. She was an integral part of Harry's sense of right and wrong... his guiding voice of reason. What the heck happened to all of that? Hermione suddenly goes crazy over Ron and Lavender dating and decides to play mind games instead of getting things out in the open. She starts to nag Harry about the potions book instead of reasoning with him and proving her point. Perhaps thats why Harry didn't pay attention to her advice, because he realized some strange being took over Hermione's body.



Please, please, please JKR put some sort of explaination in Book Seven.

The 'tension' between R/Hr is just plain hurtful. They make fun of each other for being themselves. Fights between bestfriends are always the most hurtful ones because they're well aware of your weak spots. Imagine how insulting it is for Ron when Hermione said she only liked good quidditch players, and how demeaning it is for his best friend to say that after the "weasley is our king" incident. How hurt must Hermione have gotten when Ron made fun of her brains. Wouldn't that give a sting of betrayal seeing as she went through hell in first year because of her smartness? Both were well aware of the history behind their comments, yet just to one up the other, they didn't hesitate in saying them. And they didn't show guilt afterwards, smirking even.

I haven't been reading the SHIP's for about a week now. Glad I started to again. I agree with everyone about the characters being OoC. I was basically just like Hermione before HBP, afterwards though, I started thinking: Would I try to make someone jealous by going out with someone else? No! Would I nag and nag at Harry like she did? No! I agree that she was in the right but I wouldn't have nagged like that I would have reasoned with him until I got my point across. It's like me changing from a pre HBP Hermione to someone who gets all A's and P's (real life is D's and E's). It just can't happen. She loses all her logic. I had a hard time reading HBP because of how odd everything felt. It didn't feel right. I also wonder where Harry's voice, that sounded oddly like Hermione's, in his head went.

I have been reading over everything said and I have to say I completely agree . I feel like the people I was reading about in book six were strangers and Hermiones antics with McLaggan were just off the wall out of character .
I have never from day one thought of Ron and Hermione together , as a person I have read these books many times scouring over for clues and hidden meanings . Yet the one thing I always took for granted was that surely Harry and Hermione were the point romantically . I mean Im 23 so I doubt its naievity but it just never crossed my mind .
When HBP darkened my door I was excited for what was to come but although I loved the book it left me bitterly dissapointed . During all the snogging etc I felt like I was reading fanfic . Almost as if there were boxes to be ticked Ron/Hermione being one of them . Their relationship became this bickering , fighting vehicle which had them both acting like completely different people . I know they are teenagers they are growing up but one summer does not a new personality make .
Im not opposed on such a hard level as many H/Hr shippers to this couple . I mean if it happens its happening and I cant stop it though it may mar the ending for me a little . The main reason I oppose this ship is because of the way it has been built up to be this great romance , the thing of fairytales and legend . It will never be because after all is said and done Harry is our legend and Hermione and Ron are just bit players . This may be a trio but it is far from equal in many respects .
The other reason I am opposed is the point of change , we all learn at a young age never change yourself for another person . Never try to be someone else in order for someone to love you . I feel like this is what these two have done they have became who they think they should be . Hermione saw Ron with Lavendar automatically assuming snogging was what he wanted and a small while later there she is on a date .
Who knows I have droned on long enough but I shall sit in anticipation for book seven to see if this can be redeemed . Im not closing my mind off and saying there is no way this would work I just doubt it .

Kate

IMO, Ron and Hermione have a love-hate type of relationship. It appears to me that once one of them begins to soften a bit and becomes civil to the other, the other one says or does something that hurts the other. And so it goes back and forth. This is love? I don't think so. After all those years of bickering, it has become a habit they can't seem to break. If Jo finally pairs them in book 7, it won't be for too long. I believe that they will come to the realization that they are best suited as friends. Ron needs someone who loves him exactly as he is. Hermione and Harry need each other; and I mean in a non-platonic way. I'm an H/Hr shipper and feel strongly about my ship. I hope that Jo surprises us all in book 7 with H/Hr falling in love.

I love the character of Ron and also of Hermione. It frustrates me that people think being against R/Hr means you don't like Ron. I really do like Ron most of the time although not too much in HBP.

The thing is that I just don't think that He and Hermione are destined to be together in the end. I could have even been ok with them having a relationship. I could see it growing out of the life of fear and worry over Harry. The pressure of waiting for the war to start, the pressure of caring for and worrying over their best friend could pull them together. I think just the fact that they both love Harry could be enough to draw them together for a brief and maybe even a passionate affair like those that often develop during times of war etc.

But I don't think that they would ultimately end up together. For one thing, I think Ron is much more traditional in his ideas or Women and family. Hermione will not be like his mother. I think she will be a non-traditional woman in many ways, and I think that while this may attract Ron in some ways, in the end he will marry someone more like his mother.

I also don't see a lot of evidence of Team work or partnering between Ron and Hermione like I do with Harry and Hermione. H and Hr are always working something out together. They read each other well. They often have a sense of one another's thoughts. Ron on the other hand repeatedly expresses his confusion about why Hermione does or acts as she does. Opposites may initially attract, but the attraction often doesn't last long.

I also think that Harry will have a hard time finding any woman to live up to Hermione. Of course, I don't like him wiith Ginny, but I think the qualities that Ginny has developed as the series has gone on are the opposite of what Harry would really see in Ginny. I will explain that more in the anti harry ginny thread.

In the end, Hermione will be frustrated with Ron and they will butt heads over theri differences in values, gender roles, etc. Though I like Ron, I don't think he will ever be "Deep" enough for Hermione. Ron is pretty much an open book. NOt a lot going on under the surface. When he is mad he shows it, when he is brave he shows it etc. But I think that Harry who has been through so much is more complex and will more likely appeal to the intellectual in Hermione. She likes to dig through the layers, to understand things etc. She would get this more from Harry than From Ron.

To be fair to Hermione, Ron hurt her big time. Imagine for a minute you ask out a bloke that you really like and you know he likes you and he says YES.
However after being really polite to one another, the bloke goes skitz. You dont know what you've done and the bloke isnt telling you. You go up to your house tower only to see your date locking lips with another girl.

Of course she's gonna go off with other blokes...

I have to admit im rather disappointed in the way the Hermione and ron situation turned out. For me it was a little too full on. I'd also have imagined Hermione would have kept her composure during the ron/lavender relationship.

I'm not going to underestimate Hermione, i reckon she can be devious when it suits her. And her being smart i would have expected her to play her hand alot better...make Ron really see what he was missing. A fiesty, intelligent and independant girl and not a cry baby.

If i had to chose a bloke Hermione would have got off with to make Ron jealous, i'd choose Blaise Zabini of Slytherin. He's handsome and rich and cool. As far as i could tell, Blaise and Hermione have spent time together at slughorns party and it isnt unlikely they would have been civil to eachother. Plus Hermione is a pretty girl.

I'm going to dismiss what Zabini said on the train about not ever wantingto go after ginny because she's a bloodtraitor. He was with Malfoy. Its not like he could say anything different around him is it?

if Hermione was going to be a vamp (which i know she has got in her)for short period, i have no doubt, she would have been alot smarter in doing so. In the book it just seemed that Hermione copping off with another bloke was a desperate resort to make ron jealous. So the way she dealt with ron seemed out of character. JK made her seem like a simpering, unreasonable idiot.

A slytherin would be so much more effective than a gryffindor. It would put across the message 'you pushed me in the arms of another man...and not just any'.


Another thing that sort of puts me off is that Ron used the 'L' word. I dont know why but that just annoyed me.

I dont think Harry's right for hermione either. Dreadful pairing.

MOD EDIT : Using symbols is not a way to avoid the censors. Swearing is not allowed on this forum - please check the rules. Your post has been edited.

Ron_Hermione - I've deleted those posts for you. Just incase you were wondering where they'd gone.

I agree with most of the posts that I've read here (particularly Krisharose's), and I think that Allie brings up an interesting point regarding the 'shallow' boggarts - it's a good point and worth thinking about.

That said, I still feel that JK is guilty of retrospective writing and character re-configuration.

For the record, I enjoy reading about romantic tension, witty banter (as opposed to childish bickering), sauced up with a touch of comic antagonism and misunderstanding. "Pride and Prejudice", "Much Ado About Nothing" and "When Harry met Sally" are effective examples of this kind of dynamic. Generally, the 'opposites attract' scenario operates along the lines of two characters who initially misunderstand each other, only to later come to a point of clarification where they know, understand and accept each other better. Or, we have two characters who clash, only to find themselves in a set of circumstances which highlight their ability to work together despite their differences; or, they discover that far from being a liability their differences are actually complementary and beneficial to them both. They (and we) discover that beyond the initial impression, that they are indeed a match.

(Now, can anyone in here honestly say that this is what has occurred between R/H? )

Either way, all of the above scenarios are heavily dependent upon a process of gradual revelation and underlying development. Strip beneath the layers and you discover a form of interaction that transcends the surface fighting and misunderstanding.

The conflict (however it may be expressed) is supposed to signify an existing, underlying relationship - it's not supposed to be the actual relationship! But I think that this is precisely what we have on our hands in HBP, with JK weakly trying to pass off the mere signs of romantic interest (tension, bickering) as an actual relationship. Bickering alone cannot substitute for a developed relationship. I've heard the argument time and time again that the bickering indicates that they are attracted to one another, but it seems as if JK never bothered to direct a key question at R/H - namely - "d'ye think they're suited to one another".

Even if attraction (and I still have my doubts on this because, I still can't see what it is that they even like, appreciate or are attracted to in one another) was present - all that indicates is that they apparently 'want' each other - or if the jealousy that raged through in HBP was any indicator - that, they didn't 'want' the other one to end up with someone else ( - a type of sour dog-in-the-manger behaviour that isn't exactly a glowing reccommendation as to how they feel about each other. What can you really say when someone is only moved to take an interest in you when it appears that someone else is interested? Why are they not simply interested in you all along, without external threat or motivation? )

At any rate, wanting each other doesn't resolve the key dilemma of whether or not they suit one another. To me, JK has in no way proven that these two work together and has confirmed what I have suspected about this pairing.

As always, I was left asking what I have always asked concerning these two - where oh where, is the relationship? I'm not even talking about romance here.

Strip away the fighting, the insults, and the toxic attempts to degrade one another and what do you have? Something static and non-revelatory.

Seriously, how do these two interact outside of tearing strips off one another? Does anybody have any idea what that would be like or look like - R/H simply talking, enjoying each other's company or interacting in a useful way? (We're 6 books into the series and I haven't read anything that satisfactorily answers this question, beyond the odd, fleeting instance of a ceasefire.) We've never even seen Ron and Hermione have so much as a single proper conversation yet we're supposed to believe that this is a 'relationship'?

JK's seeming inability to present R/H interacting outside of constant fighting, suggests to me that it was all lights and mirrors at the centre which lies a big, blank of nothingness that she has no idea what to do with.

R/H - oh yeah. They fight and...well - that's about it. All of the apparent fireworks and bickering have just been a big smokescreen covering up the lack of development and the subsequent void. I've come to the conclusion that really, there's nothing more to R/H which makes it so hollow and weak. As an author JK has chosen this as her central relationship, which is her choice, yet I can't understand why she has failed to imbue it with some variety and nuance so that we can see that this relationship is more than a tired, one-trick pony played for laughs. Has it not occured to her that her readers (even those who are not R/H supporters) would like R/H do something other than abuse and torture one another? That we might be curious to see what an actual R/H relationship would be like? That, we think it's time to move on and actually show us something new here?

I really couldn't agree more that with H/R we are witnessing a forced, long-suffering, and stagnant dynamic. I also think that JK has simply written herself into a corner with these two. She has relied upon the low expectations of her readers, presuming that they will continue to take it for granted that the repetitive bickering is an evolving relationship on to itself. But I am not convinced.

As Krisharose pointed out, we've had 6 books of the same tedious, unaltering, charmless pattern of interaction between the two - namely that they fight, insult each other, can't agree on anything - a pattern which we have seen since they were 11 years old. They're sixteen and they still interact in pretty much the same damaging, unappealing way. Yet we are apparently supposed to be seeing signs of development and maturation here. Where? (I suppose JK could suddenly have R/H actually treating each other like human beings in book 7, but by then that will be too little too late, after 6 books full of this prolonged, apalling nonsense between them.)

The only new 'development' is that they now go out of their way not only to hurt each other, but are sadistic and selfish enough to drag other people into the crossfire (McClaggen andLav Lav) without compunction and in a cold-blooded, calculated fashion. It seems as if JK's notion "changing things" was to give us more of the same, but only to an exaggerated degree, with a side-serving of sadism. But how does simply taking a pre-existing dynamic and then thinly stretching it to OTT dimensions qualify as 'development'?

I have the strongest suspicion that the reason why we haven't seen any genuine development or maturation between the way that they interact is because there isn't anything there to develop.

I'm so happy that there is one of these! I don't really like Ron and Hermione. Ron was just so mean to her during all of the books and i think she deserves better than that.

basically i am H/HG supporter..
i don't quite like the idea of Ron and Hermione together..
it look funny as Ron is quite immature and Hermione look far more mature than Ron.
Some more they keep quarreling and it may look cute to people.
i don't think a couple will quarrel that often which i think.
i hope JKR will make harry to be with hermione...
i feel they look more a couple than ron and hermione...

It's only second nature that Ron and Hermione get together. You could tell in the 6th book that they were only going out with other people to spite eachother! AND it worked lol

Erm, I think you're in the wrong thread. This is only for non supporters. Please read the first post here which lays out the rules for the VENOM threads.

If you're supportive of R/Hr, then you need to be posting here.

Throughout the books, it seemed to me that Ron treated Hermione just like he treated Ginny--like a sister. Notice how differently he behaves around pretty girls he is attracted to...blushing, stammering and the like. Notice how he behaved when Hermione asked him to go with her to Slughorn's party or when she kissed him on the cheek for luck in one of the books (cannot recall which one right now). Ron wears his heart on his sleeve and I believe many people (including Hermione and Harry) interpreted Ron's behavior in the Yule Brawl and towards Harry in GoF as jealousy, when he clearly states and indicates what he felt was betrayal by his two best friends. Given the fact of his reaction to Ginny telling him that Hermione kissed Krum without proof, I would say that for any R/Hr to happen, it would take a serious changing for both people. If the bickering would have changed gradually down to teasing and mutual respect over the years, I could have seen R/Hr happening right now.

I believe Hermione's behavior was strongly affected by the events in OotP--notice the behavioral changes in Hermione after the DoM and learning about the prophecy. In short, she may be a logical, and sometimes ruthless, person who cares about the underdog, but she needs to get a grip on her emotions. Both she and Harry were in some serious denial phase throughout HBP, and both wanted to put on the fascade of normalcy--to be like everyone else with regular teen issues. Also, I think she went for Ron because he was the easy choice, not complex and dangerous like Harry. At the end of HBP, we see Ron comforting his sister-like best friend and no real hints of a deeper relationship, but a re-establishment of the Trio as a whole.

Nymphe, I've commented on this in another thread but I think that your explanation as to some of the behaivour in HBP is a good one. I agree entirely that both Harry and Hermione become uncharacteristically 'normal' (and dull), and that it could indicate a form of evasion on their part. You're right. After all, they have a lot of atypical, depthful (and downright scary) things to face up to and what easier way to delay the inevitable than to submerge themselves in 'typical' teen life ( - the type of life and high school experience that they've never really been able to live)?

At any rate, your suggestion is offering JK an explanation for HBP and a way out of R/H.

In all seriousness though, I have a difficult time imagining R/H beyond the dream-like, alternate-reality of HBP. Once they are on the road, tracking down Horcruxes and combatting Death Eaters, Wormtail, possibly Snape and of course, Voldy - I'm really unsure as to where the average (if exaggerated) boy-girl romance of R/H would fit in, and what relevance their usual melodrama would have to the life-and-death proceedings that are to follow. (Whereas H/Hr's magic and detective-style partnership on the other hand would fit in very nicely with all of this!)

This is just one of the issues that has always niggled me about R/H. That, it would just be an stereotypical boy-gets-girl romance that was out of context and didn't fit comfortably alongside the main story elements of adventure, magic, and friendship that have anchored the series (until HBP). I've never been able to envisage a place for their romance. The reason why it eventuates in HBP is precisely because the main story elements (adventure, magic and friendship) that normally characterise the series seem to go on hiatus in HBP.

If the seventh book is even half-way decent, then I have to wonder....

I've never seen R/H sit down and figure anything out or co-operate long enough to work together in a semi-constructive fashion. I've never seen them combine their powers to so much as cast a spell or magically colloborate. Unless they are going to bore Voldy to death by bickering at him (with a few 'oppungo' or whatever spells thrown in for good measure ), then I don't see how their romance is going to be useful to the plot or be anything other than highly superfluous. JK could 'suddenly' turn R/H into a great magical duo, but at this incredibly late stage, who in their right mind is going to buy that snap development or not find it out-of-the-blue and totally at odds with everything that has come before it?

I don't think that it's any accident that the preceding books are largely action-based and more often than not are focused on actually defeating Voldemort, rather than incessant snogging. Nor is it a coincidence that in previous books, the R/H interaction has been kept to a minimum, and made an entertaining subordinate to the central H/Hr interaction, the latter of which then grew, as the series did; Ron's own role has been decidedly minimal to the major action, and has dwindled. Yet (pre-HBP Hermione on the other hand, was propelled to the forefront of the story alongside Harry. R/H has always been entertaining side-filler rather than central to novels which all in all seems to be appropriate positioning.

R/H and meaningful action have, thus far, been decidely uncomplementary. Action-adventure and R/H seem to be at odds, whereas action-adventure and H/Hr are like bread and butter. If anything, HBP serves as a cautionary tale as to what happens when R/H are made central to the story (or given a greater prevalence than in previous installments) - bye, bye adventure, magic, character consistency, meaningful plot continuity, or an underlying central focus (Voldemort). Hello snogging, farcical fighting and aimless histrionics. R/H will never be able to deliver the core action or the mystery that the series hinges upon and which readers such as myself, value.

R/H may well exist in the protected and artificial vacuum of Snogwarts. But once reality settles though, and things need to be done, it will be interesting to see how JK works their burgeoning romance into the action.

What iritated me about this relationship is the way Ron thought of her as a possession. When Hermione kissed Krum she was probably dating him. This had nothing to do with Ron at all. She doesnt answer to him. So when Hermione asks Ron out he assumes she's his, how else do you explain him going mental over the Hermione/Krum kiss that happened 2 yrs ago? It was ridiculous..nobody would act like that.

I dont really have a problem with Hermione's character taking a change. There is more to Hermione than just being Harry's guardian. We have also seen glimpses of the other aspects of Hermione's personality. She isn't a saint or wholly innocent.
Hermione cant stay the same for ever and will have to change at some point.
Harry has to make decisions for himself and not have Hermione standing over him, advising him forever. Also, Lord Voldemort is back and i expect Hermione's face wouldnt be stuck in a book. She is in the real world now. Books are of no use.

I'll be abit open minded Its abit early to say that Ron and Hermione are a disaster. Changes in the characters are bound to happen in the next book.
Personally i think JK lost a perfect opportunity to put hermione with a slytherin(blaise) who is McLaggen? who cares?. Im not sure wherever Ron is right for her..but Harry? im suprised to see him in the frame at all...absolutely appalling.

Somewhere along the line, both characters will have to do some serious pensonality sacrificing, but would it be worth it? Ron is too much like his mother and Hermione is one not to back much either. Somehow, I cannot see how JKR could write this convincingly in one book...I don't see how anyone could!

R/Hr represents to me a thoroughly screwed-up, one-sided case of UST that makes no sense to me. In reality, they should have dated and broken up by now! I just hope impressionable folks don't get the idea that this type of behavior is normal and healthy.

Yes, Ron generically treats Hermione like a 'thing' or a posession to be won - in other words she's just 'the girl' or the love interest, and I think its insulting.

In all fairness though, they are both possessive over the other, and as I mentioned in an earlier post, they are motivated by jealousy, rather than any intrinsic interest in the other. If Krum wasn't interested in Hermione, when would Ron have actually developed any real interest in Hermione for her own sake? If Ron wasn't carrying on with Lavender, what if anything, would have happened? I know that a lot of people would argue that that's what true love was predicated on - suddenly realising 'that you are jealous' - but I do find it telling that they're only ever fighting over each other (as opposed to just with each other), when somebody else enters the picture.

That to me, bespeaks of rivalry and competitiveness rather than romance and caring. What's disturbing about this is that it's not just H/R - both the central 'love' relationships follow a similar pattern. There is no diverse vision or notion that love happens for different people in different ways - there is only one way for romantic consciousness to be awoken apparently and one pathway to 'true love' - and that is jealousy, aggression and posessiveness. JK may as well have just come out and stated that 'being jealous and posessive'='being-in-love'.

It could be argued that Bill/Fleur and Lupin/Tonks counteract the violence of the H/R trend and suggest at other patterns for relationships, but in all honesty both their relationships are almost irrelevant to the text. At any rate, I find it interesting that there is no kind of romantic development in which anyone comes to the realisation that they're in love because they actually like being around the other person and enjoy their company, or experience a kind of gradual dawning that the other person is important to them or irreplaceable. It just boils down to "! I hate seeing you with such-and-such! *pout*"

And if that's what Hermione metamorphosises into when she is around Ron - hysterical, manipulative, selfish, jealous and petty - then she would do best to stay well away from him and hang on to her brain cells and integrity. I agree that it's nice to see characters change and to see them from a new angle. But it's not 'change' per se that I have a problem with (I'm actually of the opinion that Hermione is a character who has been evolving all along, that she was never perfect or innocent and had plenty of visible flaws pre-HBP.) What I find objectionable about R/H though, is both the direction and the type of change that has had to be wrought in Hermione in order to make R/H remotely possible.

Ron pretty much remains as he is, even though he is further flattened out as a character and his jealousy is taken to new and absurd heights.

But Hermione is the one who is re-fashioned. Her pride is basically ground into dust and she almost goes completely out of her right mind before she can even become a suitable (submissive) match for Won-Won. My question to JK is - couldn't Hermione maintain some degree of self-respect and get involved with Ron?

If HBP is anything to go by, evidently not, hence the extreme chauvanism. Throughout the series everytime these two have a clash it either ends in yelling on both sides or tears on Hermione's part, which makes it hard to know exactly what we are supposed to find attractive or endearing about any of this. If JK could show us R/H interacting and having an actual relationship (with arguments) instead of just a series dramatic displays of conflict being passed off as a relationship? Then that would actually constitute progress. Admittedly, I don't much like Ron as a character anyway, yet I've always assumed that these two would get together and that that was JK's original intention.

When R/H are in Herbology class in HBP for example, I couldn't help but think - oh well - 'at last' . They have a couple of communication missteps which is typical of R/H but at this stage, at least they're talking to each other; they're communicating, they're being open, they're sorting it out, there's some honesty - and it looks as if this thing is finally going to progress and be settled. Then suddenly - it's a different story. One, that is replaced with contrived, hollow, OTT histrionics that makes me suspicious about the underlying depth of their relationship. At this incredibly late stage, why drag it out? Why not simply write the relationship already?

I keep coming back to the fact that underneath the surface layer of noise with R/H, it seems as if there is actually nothing substantial going on.

I know that HP is fiction straddling the magic realism/fantasy adventure genre, but what was written about R/H in HBP was beyond 'fantastic' and just plain shallow and incredibly silly. I know that I'm not the only one who thinks that R/H could have had a teen fling a couple years ago and gotten it out of their system, because it's incongruous to have them still behaving like 11-to-13 year olds at ages 16 and 17, when they are supposedly on the verge of trying to save the wizarding world.

You're all doing fine here and this isn't really a criticism per se, just a gentle reminder that you are supposed to say why you don't like this ship based on your own opinions, interpretations etc - you (and by that I mean generally, no one in particular) should not really be arguing against this ship simply because you prefer another ship. That's not really a valid argument. The VENOM threads are more designed to discuss this from a literary point of view rather than a purely personal one.

I think Dominique says it best in one his/her posts that it's the R/H relationship itself that is really hard to like. They both treat each other in a way that is genuinely atrocious, and both transform from being fairly reasonable people into the kind of machiavellian people that seem capable of doing just about anything, and stooping to just about any level to get what they want. They may drive each other 'crazy' and may want to be together, but it seems to me that they bring out the very worst in each other.

Ron for example is never more jealous, posessive. competitive and insecure than when he is around Hermione. Hermione on the other hand is never more shrill, argumentative, unfocused, defensive, and bad-tempered than when she is around Ron. Ron is a naturally defenisve kind of character - that's part of who he is. But Hermione normally isn't 'defensive' - unless she's having a row with Ron. (Even when she fights with other people, she may be angry but she is usually strong in her convictions and sure of herself. Yet these more positive qualities are distinctly lacking in her arguments with Ron.) With Ron, I feel that Hermione becomes less grounded, and loses a sense of who she is, while her uptight moral compass doesn't become more flexible and humane - it just completley evaporates - and that's not good.

Yes, Hermione is a long way off from the self-righteous goody two-shoes that she started off as in PS. As the series as progresses we've seen that she is capable of being devious and downright ruthless. She's no angel.... OotP in particular demonstrated that hard edge to her personality in spades! But the difference is that there isn't this wilful desire to hurt anyone or the sense that she is solely motivated by malice. Her shrewdness and even deviousness in other books, is largely practical and utilised to help others. When Hermione is devious on Ron's behalf however, it's usually for some narrow, trivial motivation and her standards seem to go completely out the window. There's a big difference between being pragmatic and hard-edged and being plain nasty.

When she confounds McClaggen to help Ron on the team it just shows that she's willing to rob someone else of a fair chance, and directly injure their prospects. Again, wanting to help Ron isn't problematic - but, it's how she goes about and the lengths that she's willing to go to that are irksome.

I also thought this instance said a lot about how highly Hermione rates and trusts Ron's abilities. (i.e. Not a great deal.) The only reason why she would confound the competition is because deep down she really doesn't think that Ron actually has what it takes - an attitude that doesn't exactly scream 'respect'. And Ron is aware of this (as was evidenced after the 'Felix instance' where he manages to get one up on Hermione nd prove her disbelief wrong, and is clearly angry with her for her lack of belief in him.) There is always this sense of one-upmanship between the two. I think this absence of belief in Ron or respect for his abilities is part of what makes Ron so defensive around Hermione, and why I continue to question them as a pairing.

And again, we're six books into the series so barring a sudden 180 degree shift, I have to wonder....

I'm not trying to suggest that these characters don't have certain behavioural tendencies anyway - they're not by any means perfect - but I do think that their weaknesses become magnified in the presence of the other and take a turn for the worse.

Westerly, beautiful post! We saw towards the end of the book Harry beginning to comtemplated R/Hr and he does not like it. He has to be tired of the bickering and playing referee. It will be interesting when they go with him on his journey, since the Trio will be spending a large amount of time together. There will have to be some sort of emotional reckoning or they will have problems (or Harry could end up leaving them both until they iron out their differences). If JKR wants R/Hr, this will have to occur or it would not be genuine.

Please excuse my poor spelling. English isn't my native language. I've been reading the threads in here and I am glad I am not alone in my opinions. A little background perhaps. I used to be in favorite of a R/Hr ship but the development of this ship and the characters themselves are a disappointment. Fighting all the time may seem endearing to everyone but the two people in the ship. I think JKR was trying to build suspense by bringing R/Hr close to a real ship and then having an issue move them off again. However, 3 books of this exact situation is getting a bit ridiculous. All of this has been going on way to long and to the detriment of the R/Hr charcaters. They way they are relating to each other in book 6 doesn't endear the characters to the reader. I was original drawn to the R/Hr ship because of it's purity. Who wouldn't have liked to have found their soul mate early in life? Not have wasted time and sullied themselves with other relationships? This is what I loved about a R/Hr ship. However, this aspect has almost completly evaporated in book 4 and 6. I find Ron cowardly, boorish and perpetually immature. Hermione is little better. Insecure, childish, and manipulative. Maybe they deserve each other now? But why should the reader care? This ship had potential that was wasted by a marketing ploy to keep the final pairing of R/Hr in doubt until book 7. This has gone on entirely too long.

These birds hermione conjured to harm Ron were... a strange idea. Anyway: from all these ships this one seems the least annoying for me, I must say though that Ron was portrayed as somebody shallow and honestly- Hermione was more shallow too. They suited together
It wasn't true Hermione, I think. Ron was more true.

And I like Krum It would be better if she ended up with Krum; she behaved normal and was herself in his company... and he was a really nice guy: not so talkative, serious. It seems that Ron is Krum's opposite. Unfortunately I suppose that with Krum living so far away it won't work. Unless he moves like Fleur

I just don't think they're suited for each other. I mean I can see the classic Love/Hate relationship and Ron and Hermione did have less arguments, well Ron's part anyways, but I just don't see Ron with Hermione. I mean it seems that Hermione and Harry has this inner connection that is uncanny, they know what each other is thinking, they finish each other's sentences, they care the safety of each other first.

Rowling did set up at the end of book six Ron/Hermione and Harry/Ginny, she did also say Harry and Hermione are "very platonic friends", but "Platonic" does not necessarily mean non-sexual, it just means beyond the physical level, beyond reality, so in order for a relationship to exist, I think that both side will have to reach this level first and then go on.

We see these not just in the books but the movies, even though there are vast differences, but Rowling did do this and that to the movies so from what I saw in the first three movies I can only see Harry and Hermione with deeper interaction with each other. Some of the scenes that showed Hermione and Ron moments are the most interesting to see. I can think of only a few off the top of my head:

First one: Hermione grabbed Ron's hand when Harry was approaching Buckbeak - I mean we can see that she is scared for Harry, afraid that he will get hurt, and Ron just happens to be next to her and is her friend, so its normal for a girl to grab a friend's hand when she is scared, I mean she wouldn't go over to Draco or Neville and grab their hands cause she doesn't know Neville "that" well and from what I see from movies AND books Hermione hates Draco.

Second one: Hermione was crying on Ron's shoulder when Buckbeak was killed, now as I recall, a lot of the Ron/Hermione shippers says that at the end of the second movie, there were tensions between Hermione and Ron that's why Hermione did not hug Ron but hugged Harry. Well here we can say that there are no tensions between Ron and Hermione since this is actually CRYING on Ron's SHOULDER.

Third one: Outside the tree where Harry was talking to Sirius, Hermione was with Ron because he got hurt, I mean even if its a person that I don't know got hurt, I would try to help him/her, besides Hermione and Ron are great friends.

Fourth one: Actually I ran out...sorry, but those were the ones I thought of...

I mean some of those can also be interpreted as Ron/Hermione moments just like Harry/Hermione moments and vice versa (sorry if that didn't make sense) so yeah that's what I think.

Good stuff...

I am going to have to put this in my signature:

There is neither R/Hr nor H/G at the end of HBP! So that means anything is possible in the next book. Ginny was nothing more than a plot device, as she was in CoS, or the we would have had more development and actually seen H/G interacting beyond a superficial level. JKR is misdirecting us all, as she has done in the past. If anything, the trio will all end up single.

My main reason for hating this relationship, is that it leaves Harry out. I mean these kids have been together for a long time. And now two of them are going to turn their backs on the other? Also, it puts alot of pressure on Harry, having to deal with Ron's jealousy and Hermione's moodiness, he just doesn't need that.

rite well i dont think they shud b together i mean its cute n all but they fite WAYYY 2 much and like theyre just not made for each other. harry is made for hermione. ron is made for.... hmm i dunno but hr/r is not good!

Hiya Harry and welcome to the forums!!

Could I ask you to please take a couple of moments to visit the links in my signature that will help you find your way around the forums, use the search, tell you where to find help and, the necessary evil - the rules you need to abide by when you post, just incase you haven't seen them yet. Help on using the search engine can be found in the Newbies Central forum (link in my signature) or by clicking this link. You can access the search by clicking on the torch icon at the top of every page.

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Contrary to popular belief, most H/Hr shippers do not hate Ron...I know I don't. From the way R/Hr is written in all six books, there is no way either character would be suited to each other unless both of them go through a major change. Frankly, I do not want that to happen and we saw what happened to Hermione (and Ron's reaction to it). If I were Hermione and heard what Ron said to Luna in HBP after he got out of the hospital, I would say "screw this"and move on. Look at the reaction Hermione had after Ron was poisoned!

I really don't want Ron and Hermione to get together. I think it will really make the trio friendship awkward and make harry even more moody and reclusive. I really think that J.K. will go only for relationships with people outside the group.

while i very much enjoyed reading everyone's personal opinions, i do think that one of the most crucial elements of this relationship has been left out- they are kids....ok, 16 in HBP, so they are growing up. but what 11-16 year old (and 16- 60 yr old for that matter) hasn't done something completely ignorant either for or b/c of the opposite sex?

yes, hermoine does lose, at times, that sparkling personality and wit that everyone has grown to love. she acts catty and rude and downright malicious at times....but,jealousy is a very powerful emotion. people do very strange things when jealous or threatened or hurt.

now, as for when ron was poisoned....i don't think that there was "love" in the room neccessarily, but i do think there was plenty of concern. quick real-life example- i was in a truck accident 2 years ago july when my pickup rolled and stayed upside down. my husband pulled me out although i was blacked out and began asking me questions frantically. he had his heart out on his sleeve like never before. before i went to hospital though (head injury), my dad showed up to ride along. altough he sat right next to me, he sat white-faced, quiet, hands wringing.no feverish discussion of everything, but i have never seen him move faster to be by my side.

point? i believe hermione cared so much, and was so scared, she literally froze up, and could not manage to deal in any other way.

now, i think the r/hr ship is cute although it may not be the best for everyone, or even work out. but i don't agree the h/hr is a good pairing, or that after the way he chose to break it off with ginny, that he would just move on to hermione, no problem. he talks about how much he cares for ginny often, and even though he is young, as i said before, it doesn't mean that his, as well as ron and hermione's feelings are extremely strong.

my main point is try to keep everything in perspective. even though these three especially are being forced to grow up so quickly, it doesn't mean they still aren't very young in some ways. even immature in some- i.e. adult relationships that they are quickly entering into.

not everyone will ever agree on who should be with who, but chew on that idea a bit....just a little food for thought.

hey just wanted to say #1 sorry for the double post, and #2 sorry for posting before i fully understood the thread.
although i dont think of myself as support one way or they other neccessarily, i do know i wrote i didn't like the h/hr pairing.
sorry for that since i now know that this thread is for strictly supports, which i am not on either side really.
please accept...i will try to be more careful, and not be ignorant of the rules since that fault can only be my own.

I just don't feel that R/Hr should be together. Hermione is an exceptionally talented witch, while Ron is mediocre. Even Hermione realizes this, in OOTP she is as surprised as anyone that Ron was made prefect, she had thought it would be Harry. I do like H/HR, but I no longer believe that they will come together, I think JKR has decided on H/G and R/Hr, but she will have to do some pretty convincing writing in book 7 to make me like either. All I can say is I hope she does, as HBP seemed alittle forced to me.