Ah, but you seem to forget that lust is a part of love and lust -when we talk about a 16-year-old boy is a very important thing too.
As I had said, I don't like this ship because it seems shallow. I mean, Harry doesn't talk to Ginny about some more serious things, he seems not to know her well, so is she. It may develop, it may not. I'd prefer him with Cho, definitely and I'd be disappointed if Jo didn't develop the relationship between Harry and Ginny and left them together in the last book.
Actually was there said that he loves Ginny? I can't recall... To be honest, almost all relationships in HBP got on my nerves...
Full Version: Venom: Harry/Ginny
In my opinion Ron and Hermione are going to have to find something not necessarily with each other but before Harry and Ginny get together again they are going to have to find love themselves.
Also if Harry and Ginny get back together it will be at the very, very end of the 7th book just to keep us waiting.
Also I believe after Harry, Ron and Hermione defeat the death eaters and Voldy they are going to return to Hogwarts maybe say something at DDs grave and then waltz on into the Great Hall! And Ginny will run into Harry’s arms
Also if Harry and Ginny get back together it will be at the very, very end of the 7th book just to keep us waiting.
Also I believe after Harry, Ron and Hermione defeat the death eaters and Voldy they are going to return to Hogwarts maybe say something at DDs grave and then waltz on into the Great Hall! And Ginny will run into Harry’s arms
| QUOTE |
| Ah, but you seem to forget that lust is a part of love and lust -when we talk about a 16-year-old boy is a very important thing too. |
Speaking for myself I haven't forgotten, and while it's true for most, it's not for all. Anyway, I agree that lust is (generally) an important stage in teen development - which is why I call H/G lust, and hope that it indeed a phase before Harry moves on to deeper and better things....
Still not seeing any counter-examples that support the idea that H/G is young love with a healthy, realistic dose of lust thrown in the mix. I have no problem with lust - it's not as though they're in the nunnery - it's just that the lust element seems to dominate to such an extent that I don't see much else to their relationship.
I know they're 16 and 15, but I think even teens of today would find the whole 'he smelt her scent and suddenly he was in love' supposition a little improbable. As I said, even in terms of realistic lust, that's just advertising cliche. There are 15 and 16 year olds who have the lust factor going yet still manage to have a deeper relationship than what has been portrayed between Ginny and Harry.
Lust might be an important part of teen love? But HBP is so busy over-emphasising the lust of H/G that it "seemed to forget" to actually write in the 'love' part. If something seems to be entirely comprised of lust, then lust stops being an 'important element' and starts seeming shallow and trivial. Lust is the framework that we're dealing with here, and now it's up JK whether or not she can write in, or reveal any love that may underpin it.
| QUOTE |
| I'd be disappointed if Jo didn't develop the relationship between Harry and Ginny and left them together in the last book. |
She's never really shown a great deal of development for Ginny (as an individual character) so why start now? If she won't (or can't) develop her as a character, then I have serious reservations for the future development of any ship that she's a part of.
| QUOTE |
| Actually was there said that he loves Ginny? I can't recall... |
If memory serves me correctly, nope. Which again, is an interesting omission for two people who are supposed to be in love, but oh well.
| QUOTE |
| To be honest, almost all relationships in HBP got on my nerves... |
Ditto. It's not just H/G - none of the ships had real development or depth. It's just that H/G particularly comes under fire because it was supposed to be central and important, but the writing around it suggested otherwise. A lot of people just weren't convinced or won over by it.
I know that Jo said somewhere that she was glad of how she had created Ginny's character 
Like you, Westerly, I don't see almost any creation, I mean, what we know about her? Bat-bogey hex and red hair? Ah, and a flowery scent 
And the quote at the end of HBP when she says that Hermione told her to stay more herself. If it's her real self, then it looks totally opposite!
As for lust in Harry's case... I'm not willing to argue, every single person has his/her own views at it, and in his case lust is a very strong feeling. I'm only afraid that Jo will leave Harry with such a girl just because she looks like Harry's mother.
Like you, Westerly, I don't see almost any creation, I mean, what we know about her? Bat-bogey hex and red hair? Ah, and a flowery scent And the quote at the end of HBP when she says that Hermione told her to stay more herself. If it's her real self, then it looks totally opposite!As for lust in Harry's case... I'm not willing to argue, every single person has his/her own views at it, and in his case lust is a very strong feeling. I'm only afraid that Jo will leave Harry with such a girl just because she looks like Harry's mother.
Hi Omaga, welcome to the forums!! 
Errmm I think you're posting in the wrong thread, mate. This is the Venom:H/G thread, for people AGAINST the Harry/Ginny ship. From your post it seemed you were pretty neutral, but I do have to stress that this thread is for NON-SUPPORTERS ONLY.
If you have any further questions, feel free to contact me or one of the other mods via PM (Private Mail).
Errmm I think you're posting in the wrong thread, mate. This is the Venom:H/G thread, for people AGAINST the Harry/Ginny ship. From your post it seemed you were pretty neutral, but I do have to stress that this thread is for NON-SUPPORTERS ONLY.
If you have any further questions, feel free to contact me or one of the other mods via PM (Private Mail).
I'm going to sound a bit crude here... but all this talk of a flowery scent whenever Ginny is around Harry, just makes me think of a female dog in heat having her rear end sniffed by the male dog. I really think that JKR took all this talk about amorentia, love potions and the apparant teen hormones (that are running amuck!) in HBP to obscene levels. It's really very baffling to me as to why JKR chose to depict this as romance!
Wizards and Witches are Human Beings NOT canines!
Wizards and Witches are Human Beings NOT canines!
| QUOTE (Dumbledore's Widow @ Nov 4 2005, 02:54 PM) |
| I'm going to sound a bit crude here... but all this talk of a flowery scent whenever Ginny is around Harry, just makes me think of a female dog in heat having her rear end sniffed by the male dog. I really think that JKR took all this talk about amorentia, love potions and the apparant teen hormones (that are running amuck!) in HBP to obscene levels. It's really very baffling to me as to why JKR chose to depict this as romance! Wizards and Witches are Human Beings NOT canines! |
Stop it, you're killing me here...LOL!
The love potion thing is strange overall. The truth is Slughorn should have been fired for even brewing a love potion around a bunch of teens. Now I wonder what did Slughorn and Ginny discuss before the little get-together on the train.
| QUOTE (Nymphe @ Nov 4 2005 04:52 PM) |
| Now I wonder what did Slughorn and Ginny discuss before the little get-together on the train. |
Strange.. I was actually reading more about Slughorn's character last night. Well, we all know that he tends to spill more information than intended. He makes exceptions for his favorite students, and thinks that they seem capable of handling important issues. So, since Ginny was about to enter his Slug club..they might have discussed matters of love potions.. I don't think Giny would be that forward and ask a teacher about a potion, but it's a possibility. But..that's another thread though..
| QUOTE (Westerly @ Nov 2 2005 03:21 PM) |
| I have no problem with lust - it's not as though they're in the nunnery - it's just that the lust element seems to dominate to such an extent that I don't see much else to their relationship |
.
Exactly. As I've stated before, Harry and Ginny's relationship seems to be built on lust. Again, as that's normal for many relationships, theirs seems as all it has is lust. I've never actually seen (read, rather) a real conversation between them. Sure, they say a few words, sentences here and there, but it's not like they've had a heart to heart one. Well, the only time it's actually happened was at the end of HBP, and Ginny was acting like..well..heh, *remembers it's a family site* Obviously, I can't say what I think, but this is going back to the topic of Ginny telling Harry that their relationship was breaking up over '
Exactly. As I've stated before, Harry and Ginny's relationship seems to be built on lust. Again, as that's normal for many relationships, theirs seems as all it has is lust. I've never actually seen (read, rather) a real conversation between them. Sure, they say a few words, sentences here and there, but it's not like they've had a heart to heart one. Well, the only time it's actually happened was at the end of HBP, and Ginny was acting like..well..heh, *remembers it's a family site* Obviously, I can't say what I think, but this is going back to the topic of Ginny telling Harry that their relationship was breaking up over '
| QUOTE |
| some stupid noble cause |
'..
I have read elsewhere that Harry and Ginny have a strong bond. Frankly, I don't see it. What these two certainly have - without the shadow of a doubt - is lust. Harry has lust for the (all of a sudden) pretty red-haired girl and Ginny is stuck in a rut. Her rut is that she has never gotten over her silly, little girl crush for Harry. The bond I see in the HP series is ONLY between Harry and Hermione! It's been there since book one.
| QUOTE (Dumbledore's Widow @ Nov 5 2005, 11:42 AM) |
| I have read elsewhere that Harry and Ginny have a strong bond. Frankly, I don't see it. What these two certainly have - without the shadow of a doubt - is lust. Harry has lust for the (all of a sudden) pretty red-haired girl and Ginny is stuck in a rut. Her rut is that she has never gotten over her silly, little girl crush for Harry. The bond I see in the HP series is ONLY between Harry and Hermione! It's been there since book one. |
You know what I am starting to believe? I strongly think Rowling allows for fanfiction to distract the vast majority from her intended purposes. Harry and Ginny had bloody years to connect on a personal level, but did not. Why? Harry's (conditioned?) introversion (with Ron and Hermione both recognize and overcome to actually form a bond) and Ginny's immaturity. In ever single book, when Ginny hits the scene, JKR sends us little reminders that Ginny is the quintessential "mama's baby girl" which hinders her growth as a person.
Reread the part of Ginny's comment about Harry's possession in OotP. Reread Chapter 29 as well. She could have went further and connected with him, but she did not. She is not capable emotionally to do so, or she would have done it already. There was no flirting, some tiny snips of banter, Harry avoided eye contact with her, etc...nothing worth mentioning prior to that kiss. What is the author's intent? As far as the plot, it could be to get Ginny out of the way. For the characters, a growth experience that many teenagers go through...and it hurts.
Bottom line: People are going to see whatever they want to, but you better back it up with text.
I have been reading where the breakup between Harry and Ginny is being compared to Spiderman 2. In the Spiderman movies we know that Peter has had this crush on MJ forever. But, in the HP novels, it's Ginny who has had the crush NOT Harry. We (the reader) assumes that Harry broke up with Ginny because he wants to protect her from Voldemort. To keep her safe. But, let's face it, most, if not all of Hogwarts knew that the 'boy-who-lived' was dating the Weasley girl. No doubt Voldemort has his spies inside Hogwarts who have already informed him of their romance. So, Harry's reason for breaking up with Ginny was a lame one. Personally, I believe that Harry had OTHER reasons for breaking up with Ginny! I'm guessing he realized that he and Ginny had nothing in common. Also, I have always thought that the love potions played a larger role in HBP than we are led to believe. I think that Harry, was under the influence of the love potions. IMO,it was the effects of the love potions combined with the 'monster' in his pants that had him fall for Ginny in the first place. Harry was being quite shallow and felt only lust for Ginny. Harry is NOT at all like Peter in Spiderman 2. Harry doesn't love Ginny the way Peter loves MJ! I disagree with this comparison. 
Please excuse my evil moment:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/oconel/108294.html?#cutid1
Poor Ginny never got her upside-down kiss in the rain...
http://www.livejournal.com/users/oconel/108294.html?#cutid1
Poor Ginny never got her upside-down kiss in the rain...
Is it a bad thing she never got her "upside-down" kiss? I kind of thought that was a positive. Means that there's NO - yes, no - connection between Spiderman and Harry Potter. Therefore, Harry and Ginny has to fail. I wouldn't be able to live with myself otherwise. Then again, I should just start beating myself over the head with the book six now so I don't once I read book seven and am disappointed...
Teenage hormones getting in the way....it's LUST, not LOVE. Seriously, you'd think that maybe Hermione would have by then been able to help him see the difference between both. 
Seriously, you'd think that maybe Hermione would have by then been able to help him see the difference between both.
| QUOTE (TheHarryinMe @ Nov 14 2005, 07:44 PM) |
| Is it a bad thing she never got her "upside-down" kiss? I kind of thought that was a positive. Means that there's NO - yes, no - connection between Spiderman and Harry Potter. Therefore, Harry and Ginny has to fail. I wouldn't be able to live with myself otherwise. Then again, I should just start beating myself over the head with the book six now so I don't once I read book seven and am disappointed... |
TheHarryinMe, it was meant as a joke. Relax!
| QUOTE (x NomadGirl x @ Nov 14 2005, 07:49 PM) |
| Teenage hormones getting in the way....it's LUST, not LOVE. Seriously, you'd think that maybe Hermione would have by then been able to help him see the difference between both. |
Bingo, x NomadGirl x, just old-fashioned, fleeting, teenaged lust. That is why H/G is over and done. Hermione, unfortunately, had her own demons to deal with and Harry needed his experiences in HBP to realize what was important.
well....I just wanna say that Harry never acted the way Ron did after he took the love potion...
so I don´t think Harry swallowed any love potion at all. All Harry´s crushes were real, for none has taken his common sense from him the way it did by Ron/romilda (I mean Ron telling his heart´s desires aloud).
But I don´t support H/Ginny, because I see Harry alone in the end. All his crushes are just parts of adolescence... the same with Hermy and Ron.
Rowling just set up three best friends and as she decided to have them go through their teen age, she just had to give them some romantic adventures.
But that´s not the point of the story. They will be all three together in the end, with no life-partner.
so I don´t think Harry swallowed any love potion at all. All Harry´s crushes were real, for none has taken his common sense from him the way it did by Ron/romilda (I mean Ron telling his heart´s desires aloud).
But I don´t support H/Ginny, because I see Harry alone in the end. All his crushes are just parts of adolescence... the same with Hermy and Ron.
Rowling just set up three best friends and as she decided to have them go through their teen age, she just had to give them some romantic adventures.
But that´s not the point of the story. They will be all three together in the end, with no life-partner.
| QUOTE (LoLLi @ Nov 15 2005, 07:10 AM) |
| Quote//But that´s not the point of the story. They will be all three together in the end, with no life-partner.//End Quote |
I do see Harry, Ron and Hermione remaining true and loyal friends until the end of their lives, but I don't see that they will "grow old together", so-to-speak, without life partners.
Like many of us, I see Ron and Luna together. She really likes Ron, and he is beginning to see her differently. I believe that they could easily become a couple in book 7. I'm such an avid Harmonian, I just can't see Harry with anyone but Hermione, and vice-versa. As for Ginny, I really think that she was just fluff in book 6, much like Cho was in book 5. Ginny was chosen to be Harry's girlfriend by Harry's 'monster' and his out-of-control teen hormones. Not to mention the love potions that permeate HBP! Their relationship was shallow and meaningless, based on pure lust and NOT love.
I can understand that R/Hr will happen and can even accept that as a fact, but H/G? How unexpected was that? That was a weird, unwanted twist! I'd much rather Harry fall in love with someone less helpless and weak-someone who can stand up for herself. Up until the sixth book, Ginny was merely that red-headed daughter in the Weasley family who was hopelessly 'in love' with Harry. Besides, all of a sudden Ginny learns Harry likes her and it turns out that all along she had never actually given up on him? That's just plain stupid. I mean, in the beginning, she first fell "in love" with him simply because of his reputation and possibly because she had fallen for his looks, for she had never even spoken a word to him before and yet claimed that she was already in love. I hate how JK Rowling suddenly made it seem as if Ginny was the heroine when Harry was doing fine without her from the beginning, and how she just made Hermione seem like this teenager who mopes and has childish arguments to show her 'love' for Ron. It's like Hermione and Ginny switched personalities. All of a sudden, Hermione does nothing to help Harry in any way whatsoever, and all she does is get jealous and think of ways to make Ron feel bad also. I'd much rather she admit her 'love' for him and get it over with already. It's almost as if all of the good things she'd done and sacrificed for Harry didn't count for anything at all!
Way back in CoS...people thought they would get along...but from the start i've never fancied this shipper! Ginny thinks harry only as short-term...i agree with the lust and it not being love!
i personally think ginny will die in book 7...
i personally think ginny will die in book 7...
| QUOTE |
| TheHarryinMe, it was meant as a joke. Relax! |
Er... Sorry Nymphe. I didn't mean anything harsh. Probably just being a little too sarcastic with little sleep.
| QUOTE |
| i personally think ginny will die in book 7... |
That would be so cool. Not that I think it's going to happen, but who knows... 
And x NomadGirl x- I think you hit the nail right on the head. It seemed shallow to begin with, and then Hermione and Ginny both do complete about faces, acting obnoxiously like the other person.
And x NomadGirl x- I think you hit the nail right on the head. It seemed shallow to begin with, and then Hermione and Ginny both do complete about faces, acting obnoxiously like the other person.
I'm curious about something, did Professor Trelawney make a prediction that Harry and Ginny were going to have lots of children? There is a belief out there that Harry and Ginny will be in the final battle and both, or at least Ginny, will survive. I don't recall ever reading about this prediction in any of the books. Did Professor Trelawney really say this? If you know that she did say this, could you tell me what book it's in? Personally, I don't think that she predicted this at all.
| QUOTE (Dumbledore's Widow @ Nov 17 2005, 09:12 AM) |
| I'm curious about something, did Professor Trelawney make a prediction that Harry and Ginny were going to have lots of children? There is a belief out there that Harry and Ginny will be in the final battle and both, or at least Ginny, will survive. I don't recall ever reading about this prediction in any of the books. Did Professor Trelawney really say this? If you know that she did say this, could you tell me what book it's in? Personally, I don't think that she predicted this at all. |
Excuse me whilst I finish laughing at that idea...
OK, here is the direct quote from OotP, Chapter 26:
| QUOTE |
| The teachers were of course forbidden from mentioning the interview by Educational Decree Number Twenty-six, but they found ways to express their feelings about it all the same. Professor Sprout awarded Gryffindor twenty points when Harry passed her a watering can; a beaming Professor Flitwick pressed a box of squeaking sugar mice on him at the end of Charms, said, "Shh!" and hurried away; and Professor Trelawney broke into hysterical sobs during Divination and announced to the startled class, and a very disapproving Umbridge, that Harry was not going to suffer an early death after all, but would live to a ripe old age, become Minister for Magic and have twelve children. |
That would be hard to accomplish since JKR wrote that H/G is over and restated it in an interview. The fling was to serve as a growth experience to two teenagers, which what is meant by getting over their delusions.
| QUOTE (Nymphe @ Nov 17 2005, 11:02 AM) | ||||
Excuse me whilst I finish laughing at that idea... OK, here is the direct quote from OotP, Chapter 26:
That would be hard to accomplish since JKR wrote that H/G is over and restated it in an interview. The fling was to serve as a growth experience to two teenagers, which what is meant by getting over their delusions. |
Well, I'm laughing right along with you! I didn't think that it was canon that Harry and Ginny were going to have a bunch of kids TOGETHER!
IMO, most Harmonians believe that when JKR wrote about the breakup between Harry and Ginny (in the final chapter of HBP) that it was to be a permanent one. Of course, the non-H/Hr shippers believe that Harry and Ginny will be reunited in book 7. Seems like Harmonians aren't the only delusional ones!
As you say in your signature, "There is neither R/Hr nor H/G at the end of HBP!" I agree wholeheartedly!
Post GOBLET -- Spoilers ahead!!!
LoLLi said:
LoLLi said:
| QUOTE |
| well....I just wanna say that Harry never acted the way Ron did after he took the love potion... so I don´t think Harry swallowed any love potion at all. All Harry´s crushes were real, for none has taken his common sense from him the way it did by Ron/romilda (I mean Ron telling his heart´s desires aloud). |
In the book, when Slughorn sees how Ron is behaving he asks Harry if the potion was within date, because it can get stronger if it gets older, implying that the way Ron was acting was not the usual way a person on a love potion would act. I understand that to mean that his behavior was stronger than what is normal (as the potion would get stronger with age) so a normal dose would have behavior that was less extreme.
Had to check in and see what everyone thinks about Ginny in the movie. It really bothered me that they put her in more scenes than in any other movie when she was not mentioned much at all in the book. Sitting her between Ron and Harry at the Quidditch World Cup and Having her hanging out with Ron and Hermione when Harry and Ron weren't speaking.
It was very depressing to see Hermione hangning out with Ron and Harry being alone or with Neville during the split considering in the book Hermione was with Harry most of the time and Ron was with Dean and Seamus.
They really gave Ginny alot of screen time in this movie, although gladly not alot of lines. Surprisingly the ONLY H/G potentially shippy thing that ever happened in the books didn't show up in the movie and that was Harry asking Ginny to the ball when he couldn't think of anyone else. You would think they would have put that in, in light of how HBP turned out.
| QUOTE (Dumbledore's Widow @ Nov 17 2005, 06:51 PM) |
| IMO, most Harmonians believe that when JKR wrote about the breakup between Harry and Ginny (in the final chapter of HBP) that it was to be a permanent one. Of course, the non-H/Hr shippers believe that Harry and Ginny will be reunited in book 7. Seems like Harmonians aren't the only delusional ones! |
I'm a non H/Hr shipper and I certainly don't want to see Harry and Ginny together by the end of Book Seven.
It seems to me that Ginny appears to be no more then a fan girl at times. Her crush first started simply because Harry was the famous 'Boy Who Lived'. Throughout the books there has been ample opportunity for Ginny to get to know the real Harry but it has never come of anything. Harry still remains her brother's best friend whom she has a crush on. In my opinion for true love to occur you have to know the person inside out and clearly Ginny knows nothing about Harry.
| QUOTE (Fantastic Mr Potter @ Nov 20 2005, 08:58 AM) | ||
I'm a non H/Hr shipper and I certainly don't want to see Harry and Ginny together by the end of Book Seven. It seems to me that Ginny appears to be no more then a fan girl at times. Her crush first started simply because Harry was the famous 'Boy Who Lived'. Throughout the books there has been ample opportunity for Ginny to get to know the real Harry but it has never come of anything. Harry still remains her brother's best friend whom she has a crush on. In my opinion for true love to occur you have to know the person inside out and clearly Ginny knows nothing about Harry. |
And the reverse is true--Harry knows little about Ginny, only what we have been told and not shown. I have seen it argued that they had the beginnings of true love, but the problem is we only have one book left and whenever Ginny is involved with Harry's life, bad things happen. I am surprised more people do not see how Ginny has been written as a bad omen for the Trio.
GINNY-SUE COMETH!!!!
So it has started. Ginny has now been thrust into the limelight for all to see so moviegoers wouldn't be like who is this girl. I am scared that we will be seeing more of Ginny-Sue in the next movie probably taking lines from Hermione. Let's hope that the screenwriters did a better than a particular book cough*HBP* cough. Actually, I like Bonnie Wright as movieGinny! better but lets see how they change her in the movies. I think that we will like her much better in the movies than in the books. I still think that moviegoers will be frantically waving the "She is not worthy! What happen to Hermione?" flag like us, book readers. Just because she is a Weasley doesn't mean that she's great and I don't want to hear that Rowling told us because that means we had to hear it from the author which in my opinion indicates bad writing. Just the first rant of many So get ready!!!
So it has started. Ginny has now been thrust into the limelight for all to see so moviegoers wouldn't be like who is this girl. I am scared that we will be seeing more of Ginny-Sue in the next movie probably taking lines from Hermione. Let's hope that the screenwriters did a better than a particular book cough*HBP* cough. Actually, I like Bonnie Wright as movieGinny! better but lets see how they change her in the movies. I think that we will like her much better in the movies than in the books. I still think that moviegoers will be frantically waving the "She is not worthy! What happen to Hermione?" flag like us, book readers. Just because she is a Weasley doesn't mean that she's great and I don't want to hear that Rowling told us because that means we had to hear it from the author which in my opinion indicates bad writing. Just the first rant of many
So get ready!!!
I have had a really bad taste about Ginny since the second movie. She is just so weird and creepy since then, even if she didn't have control over what she did... I'm sorry but I just can't like her. Plus, isn't she like years younger then Harry? And she just has this like adoration for Harry and no guys like a girl like that. JMO
The movies will definitely have to bring out Ginny in the fifth movie so movie audiences will know who the heck she is so the sixth movie *shudder* will make sense.
You know, if JKR had only built up Ginny's character from the second book, I wouldn't be complaining now. I mean, we hear she has a crush on the famous Harry Potter (what girl her age wouldn't?), and that's it! Almost ZERO interactions between Harry and Ginny from them until HBP (and even then we hardly see anyting of them together; we hear about most of it in retrospect at the end of the book where we are TOLD they were wonderful together). If only we had seen Ginny more, had her interact more with the trio, then maybe we could have warmed up to her.
Worst of all, when we DO finally see Ginny in HBP, she is no longer the shy sweet girl of CoS. She's popular, experienced with boys, and has a bit of a smart mouth. I just didn't see Harry with someone like this! Harry has never sought popularity. In the first five books at least, he is depicted as modest and noble. Ginny comes off like one of his many fan girls who likes him because of his famous persona, and not who he really is. Maybe she knows him better than this. Perhaps they've had some deep conversations and meaningful experiences at the Burrow over the summer? Would have been nice to read some of those scenes.
You know, if JKR had only built up Ginny's character from the second book, I wouldn't be complaining now. I mean, we hear she has a crush on the famous Harry Potter (what girl her age wouldn't?), and that's it! Almost ZERO interactions between Harry and Ginny from them until HBP (and even then we hardly see anyting of them together; we hear about most of it in retrospect at the end of the book where we are TOLD they were wonderful together). If only we had seen Ginny more, had her interact more with the trio, then maybe we could have warmed up to her.
Worst of all, when we DO finally see Ginny in HBP, she is no longer the shy sweet girl of CoS. She's popular, experienced with boys, and has a bit of a smart mouth. I just didn't see Harry with someone like this! Harry has never sought popularity. In the first five books at least, he is depicted as modest and noble. Ginny comes off like one of his many fan girls who likes him because of his famous persona, and not who he really is. Maybe she knows him better than this. Perhaps they've had some deep conversations and meaningful experiences at the Burrow over the summer? Would have been nice to read some of those scenes.
| QUOTE (Elizabeth Bennett @ Nov 22 2005, 03:59 PM) |
| The movies will definitely have to bring out Ginny in the fifth movie so movie audiences will know who the heck she is so the sixth movie *shudder* will make sense. You know, if JKR had only built up Ginny's character from the second book, I wouldn't be complaining now. I mean, we hear she has a crush on the famous Harry Potter (what girl her age wouldn't?), and that's it! Almost ZERO interactions between Harry and Ginny from them until HBP (and even then we hardly see anyting of them together; we hear about most of it in retrospect at the end of the book where we are TOLD they were wonderful together). If only we had seen Ginny more, had her interact more with the trio, then maybe we could have warmed up to her. Worst of all, when we DO finally see Ginny in HBP, she is no longer the shy sweet girl of CoS. She's popular, experienced with boys, and has a bit of a smart mouth. I just didn't see Harry with someone like this! Harry has never sought popularity. In the first five books at least, he is depicted as modest and noble. Ginny comes off like one of his many fan girls who likes him because of his famous persona, and not who he really is. Maybe she knows him better than this. Perhaps they've had some deep conversations and meaningful experiences at the Burrow over the summer? Would have been nice to read some of those scenes. |
Bravo! Well said! I agree 100% with what you say!
From what I hear (I haven't seen the GoF movie yet), Ginny is more visable in the GoF movie, albeit, she doesn't talk much. She is more visible in the movie than she was in the book! I guess, the screenwriters are already starting to 'pave the way' for the little witch (with a capital 'B')! There are many HP movie fans (who have never read the HP series) who will be very confused if Ginny is suddenly in their face in the HBP movie! Oh, but wait! She WAS in MY face when I read HBP! She just came out of the woodwork! I know that Ginny had this mega-crush on Harry, but I never in my wildest dreams, thought that JKR would have Harry reciprocate!
HBP revealed the new and not so improved Ginny. I say "good luck" to whomever writes the script for the 6th movie and to the person who directs it, because they will need to fully convince the fans that ONLY see the movies that JKR actually wrote H/G in HBP! They have their work cut out for them!
| QUOTE (Dumbledore's Widow @ Nov 23 2005, 02:33 PM) |
| From what I hear (I haven't seen the GoF movie yet), Ginny is more visable in the GoF movie, albeit, she doesn't talk much. She is more visible in the movie than she was in the book! I guess, the screenwriters are already starting to 'pave the way' for the little witch (with a capital 'B')! There are many HP movie fans (who have never read the HP series) who will be very confused if Ginny is suddenly in their face in the HBP movie! Oh, but wait! She WAS in MY face when I read HBP! She just came out of the woodwork! I know that Ginny had this mega-crush on Harry, but I never in my wildest dreams, thought that JKR would have Harry reciprocate! HBP revealed the new and not so improved Ginny. I say "good luck" to whomever writes the script for the 6th movie and to the person who directs it, because they will need to fully convince the fans that ONLY see the movies that JKR actually wrote H/G in HBP! They have their work cut out for them! |
I'm not sure who told you that Ginny was in GOF but they were pulling your leg! Ginny did not say ONE world in GOF and was in maybe 2 or 3 scenes. I agree with everything you are saying though... we have all gotten to know Harry so incredibly well and we know basically nothing about Ginny. If ya'll are anything like me, your protective of Harry, and I just don't know Ginny well enough to approve of her relationship with Harry. She comes off to me too as just another female fan of his so I don't know why he would chose her. Now I will say that I think the whole idea of Harry dating his best friends sister is completely logical, I have dated my best friends siblings too. Maybe there is more happening with Harry and Ginny that JK just wants us to imagine for ourselves
In my opinion, almost anyone else would be a better match for Harry then her. Who knows, maybe JK will surprise us in the seventh book.
ahh am i the only person with good intuition here?
after i read 1st book (6or7 years ago) I just knew that they will get togethr.. that was just ment to be!!! but i must agree that it might have come as shock for h/hr shipers also it just seems wrong that harry and hermione could ever be together - so unnatural!! and i must conffes that i was really dissapointed how russhed it was. it was like a teasser for 5books and then just bang!!! they are together(((( no challange for harry in there. but i still dont give hopes up - see now that they have broken up it will bee so much more interesting - offcourse if JK will be as good as in book4. peace men!!
after i read 1st book (6or7 years ago) I just knew that they will get togethr.. that was just ment to be!!! but i must agree that it might have come as shock for h/hr shipers also it just seems wrong that harry and hermione could ever be together - so unnatural!! and i must conffes that i was really dissapointed how russhed it was. it was like a teasser for 5books and then just bang!!! they are together
(((( no challange for harry in there. but i still dont give hopes up - see now that they have broken up it will bee so much more interesting - offcourse if JK will be as good as in book4. peace men!!
Do you guys have the movie out of your system yet? Ready to pick the book or books apart? I have a feeling if we take a closer look at OotP, we will see that Hermione got played by Ginny when she tried to help out the younger girl. There had to be a reason why Rowling would have each character in the breakup scene mention Hermione...that was queer. Does anyone recall a breakup in a book like this?
Personally, I hope that Ginny is included is the OotP movie, as long as she is not involved with Harry in away way, or there are no 'hints' for their relationship next movie. As I recall, Harry was with Cho at that time, while Ginny was with oh, what was his name.. I foget, but she was involved with someone. I liked Ginny's character in OotP, and I hope she is to remain that way. She was in no way involved with Harry, but undoubtly ( ) 'not giving up on him.'
If the movie viewers ask in HBP what happend, it's not the directors fault, it's the way Jo wrote it, there was no back up information given, and I think the movie watchers will have to get that straight when they see HBP. Just because Harry and Ginny 'hook up' in HBP, it doesn't mean the directors will have to show evidence in the OotP movie, as that would be unjust and untrue to the book.
I also think that Hermione played a big role in the OotP book, and I am hoping she has a big role in the OotP movie as well. If Ginny is pushed in the way of Hermione just because of what happend in HBP, I will be really upset. We are dealing with the fifth book, and only the fifth book, just make a movie of what is happening, and don't show any hints of what is going to happen!
Ah, well enough for now, but I swear, if Ginny gets more spotlight in the next movie so her audiance gets to know her better for HBP, I will be fuming! Especially if she get's in the way of Hermione's character development in the next movie. Why should Hermione's strong female character be punished on screen just because Jo didn't give us much back ground on Ginny?
-Dominique
) 'not giving up on him.'If the movie viewers ask in HBP what happend, it's not the directors fault, it's the way Jo wrote it, there was no back up information given, and I think the movie watchers will have to get that straight when they see HBP. Just because Harry and Ginny 'hook up' in HBP, it doesn't mean the directors will have to show evidence in the OotP movie, as that would be unjust and untrue to the book.
I also think that Hermione played a big role in the OotP book, and I am hoping she has a big role in the OotP movie as well. If Ginny is pushed in the way of Hermione just because of what happend in HBP, I will be really upset. We are dealing with the fifth book, and only the fifth book, just make a movie of what is happening, and don't show any hints of what is going to happen!
Ah, well enough for now, but I swear, if Ginny gets more spotlight in the next movie so her audiance gets to know her better for HBP, I will be fuming!
Especially if she get's in the way of Hermione's character development in the next movie. Why should Hermione's strong female character be punished on screen just because Jo didn't give us much back ground on Ginny?-Dominique
I applaud Elizabeth Bennett. Harry wasn't interested in Ginny until HBP and it was like, woah! When'd this happen? It doesn't even say why he likes her. Plus, her personality shifts too fast. Don't get me wrong, I love her personality but she goes from shy outcast to popular girl too fast and stuff.
Frankly, I have to say, there must've been a reason for JK to include a G/H relationship in book six. They were only together a few weeks, so why is this so important? I suppose it might prepare us for them to get together again in book seven, it makes sense though, right?
I'd prefer another person for Harry (or maybe I've been reading too many fanfics), but I'd MUCH rather Ginny than Cho.
Frankly, I have to say, there must've been a reason for JK to include a G/H relationship in book six. They were only together a few weeks, so why is this so important? I suppose it might prepare us for them to get together again in book seven, it makes sense though, right?
I'd prefer another person for Harry (or maybe I've been reading too many fanfics), but I'd MUCH rather Ginny than Cho.
| QUOTE (roonil_wazlib @ Nov 23 2005, 09:05 PM) |
| I applaud Elizabeth Bennett. Harry wasn't interested in Ginny until HBP and it was like, woah! When'd this happen? It doesn't even say why he likes her. Plus, her personality shifts too fast. Don't get me wrong, I love her personality but she goes from shy outcast to popular girl too fast and stuff. Frankly, I have to say, there must've been a reason for JK to include a G/H relationship in book six. They were only together a few weeks, so why is this so important? I suppose it might prepare us for them to get together again in book seven, it makes sense though, right? I'd prefer another person for Harry (or maybe I've been reading too many fanfics), but I'd MUCH rather Ginny than Cho. |
One can pinpoint the change of Ginny's character from the last time she stepped out of the portrait hole in GoF and her little speech in OotP after Harry arrives at the Black House. Harry's only acknowledgement was basically "Oh, she can talk to me now" and that was it.
The way it was written, people are not supposed to become emotionally invested--Harry and Ginny surely were not. Just the passive nature of Harry's behavior towards his own growing sexuality and the lack of real talking between the two should be evidence enough. His care for her never grew beyond the "Please don't be dead" desperation of CoS.
| QUOTE ( roonil_wazlib) |
| Frankly, I have to say, there must've been a reason for JK to include a G/H relationship in book six. |
J.K. never said that Harry and Ginny's relationship was permanent. Maybe she wrote it in just as a filler. Just for Harry to actually have a girlfriend...and know how it feels like, and then making him realize that he has to give her up to save the world....
| QUOTE |
| Harry wasn't interested in Ginny until HBP and it was like, woah! |
Exactly! The first time we actually get sort of a hint that he starts thinking about her was when he was on the Hogwarts Express, and he was watching her go away to find Dean. Then, the night when he and Ron caught Ginny snogging, he was lying in bed, and what was it...? That monster in his chest was roaring up or something..? Anyway, that totally came out of the blue because he had never really thought about Ginny in a relationship, and then all of a sudden, he was like, 'go out with her, you know you want to' and 'she's your best mate's sister!'. I just didn't see any of that coming.
| QUOTE |
| His care for her never grew beyond the "Please don't be dead" desperation of CoS. |
So, it sounds as though the only reason Harry actually went out with Ginny was to please Ron. He knew that [Harry] was the only one Ron actually approved to go out with Ginny. So, Harry cares for Ginny in two ways. One, because she's Ron's sister, and two, is because he *thinks* he feels something for her because she's Ron's sister. I think that when Harry was thinking about Ginny, somewhere in the back of his mind was, 'this was meant to happen. Ron only trusts me'.... Don't know why I think that...but for some reason, it makes sense.
I have been wondering why H/G shippers seem to have this 'thing' for Ginny resembling Harry's mother. There is a thread on another website that talks ONLY about the color of Ginny's eyes! Many respondents to this thread seem to think that Ginny has the same color eyes as Lily. I would have to ask, "... and your point is?!" I just don't understand why it is such a big deal that Lily and Ginny have the same color hair and eyes. What possible difference could this make? Am I missing something here? Do H/G shippers think that it is a good thing that Ginny resemble Lily? Why? And why would Harry be interested in 'sucking face' with someone who looks like what he thinks his mother looked like? I just don't get it! 
This seems a bit perverted to me!
BTW, Lily's eyes were green. Ginny's eyes are blue, like all of the other Weasleys!
This seems a bit perverted to me!BTW, Lily's eyes were green. Ginny's eyes are blue, like all of the other Weasleys!
| QUOTE |
I have been wondering why H/G shippers seem to have this 'thing' for Ginny resembling Harry's mother. There is a thread on another website that talks ONLY about the color of Ginny's eyes! Many respondents to this thread seem to think that Ginny has the same color eyes as Lily. I would have to ask, "... and your point is?!" I just don't understand why it is such a big deal that Lily and Ginny have the same color hair and eyes. What possible difference could this make? |
This is an argument that annoys me to no end. Ginny has red hair! Lily has red hair! Harry and Ginny are meant for each other just like James and Lily! I think this is just silly. You know, RON has red hair too!
Ginny does not seem to have anything in common with Lily other than red hair and popularity. But beyond this, we know that Lily was an exceptionally talented witch and extremely compassionate. Remember how she stood up for Snape when he was being taunted by James and Sirius? Can you imagine HBP Ginny doing the same? She'd probably be right there laughing with everyone else, if you ask me.I am of the opinion, and others are free to disagree, that Hermione more closely resembles Lily than Ginny. Hermione, as we all know, is an extremely talented witch with advanced magical capabilities, which is why she excels in all her classes. Also, she is very compassionate, as we see with S.P.E.W., her treatment of Kreacher, and even Neville at times. She stands up for those who need it. Also, she is incredibly protective of Harry. She is not afraid or ashamed to tell him to be careful, or to look out for his safety first. Lily died to protect Harry, and I think so would Hermione. So if shippers want to make comparisons between Lily and Harry's ideal partner, they need to look for more than hair color.
| QUOTE |
| I have been wondering why H/G shippers seem to have this 'thing' for Ginny resembling Harry's mother. |
Oh my goodness me too! But I'm not here to disagree with the H/G shippers, and make fun of their ideas, but to disagree with the H/G ship, and analyze that Ginny and Lily do not resemble eachother.
Either than red hair, I really don't see how they look alike. I think Elizabeth made very good points, and I agree with her... And even if, and that is if, even Jo ment for Lily and Ginny to be alike, I don't happen to agree that Harry is much like his father, except for the way he looks. Maybe when James was a little older Harry resembled him more. Why? James wanted attention, Harry does not. James wants to be popular and noticed, Harry does not. James teased people for no apparent reason, (because he was bored) Harry knows what it feels like to be teased, and wouldn't do it on purpose. I do agree though that James grew out of it, which is good.
So really, I believe that Harry more resembles Lily in personality, while Ginny resembles James.. All though I do not think that this is a very good reason for H/G to get together..
-Dominique
I applaud everyone!! Yes, even though Ginny and Harry resemble James and Lily, who's to say that they'll end up married? I mean honestly...a post talking about nothing but her eye colour is rather...strange...
Harry doesn't really give a reason for liking Ginny, yanno? Like...it's just he sees her snogging Dean and all of a sudden it's, I love her!! It's not something like, she's nice or she's clever. I don't think he even comments on her looks! There is no real point to a H/G ship. I for one think that Harry is destined to be alone and Hr/R end up married!! Ginny ends up with...someone else...
Harry doesn't really give a reason for liking Ginny, yanno? Like...it's just he sees her snogging Dean and all of a sudden it's, I love her!! It's not something like, she's nice or she's clever. I don't think he even comments on her looks! There is no real point to a H/G ship. I for one think that Harry is destined to be alone and Hr/R end up married!! Ginny ends up with...someone else...
| QUOTE (Elizabeth Bennett @ Nov 25 2005, 12:31 PM) |
| I am of the opinion, and others are free to disagree, that Hermione more closely resembles Lily than Ginny. Hermione, as we all know, is an extremely talented witch with advanced magical capabilities, which is why she excels in all her classes. Also, she is very compassionate, as we see with S.P.E.W., her treatment of Kreacher, and even Neville at times. She stands up for those who need it. Also, she is incredibly protective of Harry. She is not afraid or ashamed to tell him to be careful, or to look out for his safety first. Lily died to protect Harry, and I think so would Hermione. So if shippers want to make comparisons between Lily and Harry's ideal partner, they need to look for more than hair color. |
Absolutely! I also think that Hermione is the one that more closely resembles Lily. Not Ginny. It's canon that Hermione is the most gifted witch of her age. It's also canon that she has compassion for others, as for example, when she started S.P.E.W. and when she showed compassion for Kreacher. When comparing Ginny to Lily, you only have the hair color in common. How lame is that? And no, I don't think Ginny has near the compassion that Hermione does. Ginny is too self-centered, sassy and rude. She likes being the center of attention, she's been pampered far too much in my opinion. Hermione does look out for Harry. She sides with him when everybody else alienates themselves from him (as in GoF). Lily died protecting her son. Although I do not want Hermione to die in the final book, I can see Hermione sacrifising herself for Harry. And, like Lily, Hermione will do it out of love!
Um..hate to say this, but this thread is slowly turning into the 'Ginny and Hermione comparison' thread.. Heh, anyway..
I agree, that it is very dim to compare Ginny to Lily. Like Dumbledore's Widow said, I don't think Harry wants someone to remind him of his mother (in looks of course). People think that history is to repeat itself, and that's one of the main reason for some H/G shippers. It's just really frustrating to hear or read a comment like that because looks don't matter. If history was truly to repeat itself, then Harry and Ginny's personalities would have to be more like Harry's parents. Harry isn't exactly like James, although they're both excellent in magic, James tended to be stuck up at Harry's age. Ginny isn't exactly like Lily because Lily stook up for people she didn't associate with, and Ginny just hexes people for the heck of it!
So yeah, basically what everyone else here has in mind. Ginny and Harry didn't meet each other like Lily and James, either. They didn't argue right off from the start. Ginny went ahead with whatever ideas Harry had in mind. Oh, and nice, Elizabeth Bennett, Ron has red hair too! Lol, that definetly made me laugh.
People just like the idea of history repeating itself, and I admit, I did too. But Hermione was Lily in my mind for quite a while.
I agree, that it is very dim to compare Ginny to Lily. Like Dumbledore's Widow said, I don't think Harry wants someone to remind him of his mother (in looks of course). People think that history is to repeat itself, and that's one of the main reason for some H/G shippers. It's just really frustrating to hear or read a comment like that because looks don't matter. If history was truly to repeat itself, then Harry and Ginny's personalities would have to be more like Harry's parents. Harry isn't exactly like James, although they're both excellent in magic, James tended to be stuck up at Harry's age. Ginny isn't exactly like Lily because Lily stook up for people she didn't associate with, and Ginny just hexes people for the heck of it!
So yeah, basically what everyone else here has in mind. Ginny and Harry didn't meet each other like Lily and James, either. They didn't argue right off from the start. Ginny went ahead with whatever ideas Harry had in mind. Oh, and nice, Elizabeth Bennett, Ron has red hair too! Lol, that definetly made me laugh.
People just like the idea of history repeating itself, and I admit, I did too. But Hermione was Lily in my mind for quite a while.
| QUOTE ( Dominique) |
| But I'm not here to disagree with the H/G shippers, and make fun of their ideas, but to disagree with the H/G ship |
Argh...now I read this. Well, I'm not trying to debat with the shippers as well, if it seems like I am.
| QUOTE ( roonil_wazlib) |
| Like...it's just he sees her snogging Dean and all of a sudden it's, I love her!! |
Yeah, like I've said before, it's as though the only reason Harry starts thinking about Ginny is going back to Ron's words. It's also as though he thinks about her because he's jealous. He's jealous that someone else has a chance to song a girl (Dean Thomas). Ginny goes off to Ron about how Harry's snogged Cho Chang, but in truth, hasn't he only kissed like once? So, he might've taken what she said to heart or something, not really thinking about it, but he knew that the idea was in his mind. Let's hope this paragraph makes even a little sense to the people reading it
.
No, you make perfect sense. I don't think he was jealous though. I think it was a rather pointless relationship. No depth and Harry risked his friendship with Ron for a stupid relationship that lasted what? A month? Not even. It was really pointless, no offence to JK.
[/QUOTE]
But I'm not here to disagree with the H/G shippers, and make fun of their ideas, but to disagree with the H/G ship, and analyze that Ginny and Lily do not resemble eachother.[/QUOTE]
Sorry if I took the discussion there - didn't mean to be so negative. The Ginny-Lily argument just gets to me is all.
Anyway, on with H/G venom.....
[/QUOTE]
J.K. never said that Harry and Ginny's relationship was permanent. Maybe she wrote it in just as a filler. Just for Harry to actually have a girlfriend...and know how it feels like, and then making him realize that he has to give her up to save the world....[/QUOTE]
I think Hermione_Resilda makes an interesting point here. I've been thinking about it, and I believe it is entirely possible that H/G really is over and that JKR included the relationship in book 6 to provide Harry with a teasing taste of normalcy before he has to embark on what is quite possibly a suicide mission to conquer Voldemort. Ginny seems to represent everything conventional and shallow, which is not necessarily a bad thing for a first relationship at age 16. She is physically attractive, pokes fun at those she doesn't like, cracks jokes, and likes Quiddich. She is the sheltered youngest member of the Weasley family, which is as close to a family as Harry has now. A relationship with Ginny seems like the essence of escapism for Harry. However, Harry is not a normal 16-year-old. He has the burden of being the Boy Who Lived, and the target of the most feared wizard of all time.
Perhaps because of all this, Harry shows a courage and depth of soul not often found in one so young. He can pretend to be typical for awhile, but in the end he will need more than a cute face and Quiddich chatter. Ginny shows courage, but so do most of Harry's friends. In OotP, Ginny, Neville, and Luna insist on helping him and going to the DoM. All show courage in wanting to help, but even then Harry thinks to himself that they are the last people he wants coming along. He breaks up with Ginny in the end because he KNOWS he is using the relationship as an escape. He even says the time he spent with her was "like something out of someone else's life" (something like that - I don't have the books on me right now). Yes, he wants to protect her from harm. However, he cares for Ron and Hermione more than anyone else yet he allows, even expects, tham to accompany him on his dangerous journey.
To me, this shows that Ginny was a brief attempt at being a normal 16 year old, and nothing more.
But I'm not here to disagree with the H/G shippers, and make fun of their ideas, but to disagree with the H/G ship, and analyze that Ginny and Lily do not resemble eachother.[/QUOTE]
Sorry if I took the discussion there - didn't mean to be so negative. The Ginny-Lily argument just gets to me is all.
Anyway, on with H/G venom.....[/QUOTE]
J.K. never said that Harry and Ginny's relationship was permanent. Maybe she wrote it in just as a filler. Just for Harry to actually have a girlfriend...and know how it feels like, and then making him realize that he has to give her up to save the world....[/QUOTE]
I think Hermione_Resilda makes an interesting point here. I've been thinking about it, and I believe it is entirely possible that H/G really is over and that JKR included the relationship in book 6 to provide Harry with a teasing taste of normalcy before he has to embark on what is quite possibly a suicide mission to conquer Voldemort. Ginny seems to represent everything conventional and shallow, which is not necessarily a bad thing for a first relationship at age 16. She is physically attractive, pokes fun at those she doesn't like, cracks jokes, and likes Quiddich. She is the sheltered youngest member of the Weasley family, which is as close to a family as Harry has now. A relationship with Ginny seems like the essence of escapism for Harry. However, Harry is not a normal 16-year-old. He has the burden of being the Boy Who Lived, and the target of the most feared wizard of all time.
Perhaps because of all this, Harry shows a courage and depth of soul not often found in one so young. He can pretend to be typical for awhile, but in the end he will need more than a cute face and Quiddich chatter. Ginny shows courage, but so do most of Harry's friends. In OotP, Ginny, Neville, and Luna insist on helping him and going to the DoM. All show courage in wanting to help, but even then Harry thinks to himself that they are the last people he wants coming along. He breaks up with Ginny in the end because he KNOWS he is using the relationship as an escape. He even says the time he spent with her was "like something out of someone else's life" (something like that - I don't have the books on me right now). Yes, he wants to protect her from harm. However, he cares for Ron and Hermione more than anyone else yet he allows, even expects, tham to accompany him on his dangerous journey.
To me, this shows that Ginny was a brief attempt at being a normal 16 year old, and nothing more.
I think Bonnie (who plays Ginny) is going to have one hell of a hard time in Half Blood Prince (if the cast is the same that is). She is going to have to try and convince the movie fans that her and Harry should be together with almost no interaction between them. OOTP must show no interaction between the two of them because there wasn't any interaction on the book. Then everyone will see how there is no basis for this 'relationship' (if you can call it that) at all.
I think Ginny and harrys relationship could have been good its just that it was written so badly. All of a sudden he started liking her. Why? Did he like being with her, did he find her funny, kind, attractive? All we got was that he was jealous of Dean getting to snog her. I wasnt convinced at all that they had any real bond with eachother. I know there young but I'm only 15 too and I've had relationships with a bit more substance than that. And when Ginny came running into Harrys arms I was like "what the hell?!!' I t doesnt happen like that! So silly with no genuine feeling at all
I don't have my book on me (I lent it out to someone), but before I did I was skimming over my copy and a number of things struck me, so I jotted down the page numbers as I went. I'll just mention a few of these instances.
1. p. 390-91 The scene in which Ron informs Harry that Ginny visited him while he was unconcious after the Quidditch accident. I thought Harry's response to this was hilairious. He imagines a scene in which "...Ginny, weeping over his lifeless form, confessed her feelings of deep attraction to him while Ron gave him his blessing..."
Not 'love' - but 'deep attraction' eh? (Aim high Harry - aim high!)
I laughed - in enjoyment. It's a whimsical scene with shades of teen angst, and General Hospital, bordering on being camp. (Lifeless body etc.) If JK is serious about presenting this as some deep, abiding love then - she has to be kidding!
And I think that, perhaps she is.
Harry is not even thinking in terms of love, or securing anyone's heart - if anyone is - we are. He's (suddenly) attracted to this girl and is hoping for some reciprocation - that's it. I don't think it is any accident that the 'L' word is never used in connection to their relationship.
It wouldn't surprise me if the levity and seeming ridiculousness of some of the ships was in response to how ovelry serious we readers were getting over the ships. The more I read, the more the ships seem to be written as a joke, or a parody of a soap (think of the kiss etc.) intended to get readers to lighten up a little.
That said, I do think that Ginny's sudden significance has some more serious aspects to it as well....
2. Ginny's behaviour over the Sectumsempra episode has been talked about at length, but I did find it interesting that before Harry ever cast the spell on Malfoy, he had another candidate lined up - namely, one Cormac McClaggen (pg. 484). What's disturbing about this scene is that McClaggen's admittedly irritating behaviour causes him to contemplate using a hex (sectumsempra) on him....
Since when has Harry ever considered hexing someone simply because the person irritates him? And uh, who exactly, does this remind us of? Do you think Harry would have ever considered hexing McClaggen for being annoying until someone else had 'shown' him that it was cool to slap down people who annoy you?
The only reason why he doesn't use the spell on McClaggen is because Hermione (fortunately) inadvertently distracts him from his train of thought.
3. p. 501 (UK edit.) We're informed that Slughorn approves of Ginny and the prospect of H/G. And this, coming from an elitist old man who hasn't exactly been shown to have the best judgement when it comes to assessing character.... (Think Slughorn and TOm Riddle who he also heartily approved of.) It's not even as if its Hagrid, or McGonagall or even Lupin standing in the background and noting his growing attraction and hook-up with Ginny with interested approval - it's Slughorn. What a benediction.
4. Yes - Sectumsempra. Krisharose was the first person on this thread to talk about this passage - I'll quote the passage, along with her assessment:
I'll just mention a few of these instances.1. p. 390-91 The scene in which Ron informs Harry that Ginny visited him while he was unconcious after the Quidditch accident. I thought Harry's response to this was hilairious. He imagines a scene in which "...Ginny, weeping over his lifeless form, confessed her feelings of deep attraction to him while Ron gave him his blessing..."
Not 'love' - but 'deep attraction' eh? (Aim high Harry - aim high!)
I laughed - in enjoyment. It's a whimsical scene with shades of teen angst, and General Hospital, bordering on being camp. (Lifeless body etc.) If JK is serious about presenting this as some deep, abiding love then - she has to be kidding!
And I think that, perhaps she is.Harry is not even thinking in terms of love, or securing anyone's heart - if anyone is - we are. He's (suddenly) attracted to this girl and is hoping for some reciprocation - that's it. I don't think it is any accident that the 'L' word is never used in connection to their relationship.
It wouldn't surprise me if the levity and seeming ridiculousness of some of the ships was in response to how ovelry serious we readers were getting over the ships. The more I read, the more the ships seem to be written as a joke, or a parody of a soap (think of the kiss etc.) intended to get readers to lighten up a little.
That said, I do think that Ginny's sudden significance has some more serious aspects to it as well....
2. Ginny's behaviour over the Sectumsempra episode has been talked about at length, but I did find it interesting that before Harry ever cast the spell on Malfoy, he had another candidate lined up - namely, one Cormac McClaggen (pg. 484). What's disturbing about this scene is that McClaggen's admittedly irritating behaviour causes him to contemplate using a hex (sectumsempra) on him....
Since when has Harry ever considered hexing someone simply because the person irritates him? And uh, who exactly, does this remind us of? Do you think Harry would have ever considered hexing McClaggen for being annoying until someone else had 'shown' him that it was cool to slap down people who annoy you?
The only reason why he doesn't use the spell on McClaggen is because Hermione (fortunately) inadvertently distracts him from his train of thought.
3. p. 501 (UK edit.) We're informed that Slughorn approves of Ginny and the prospect of H/G. And this, coming from an elitist old man who hasn't exactly been shown to have the best judgement when it comes to assessing character.... (Think Slughorn and TOm Riddle who he also heartily approved of.) It's not even as if its Hagrid, or McGonagall or even Lupin standing in the background and noting his growing attraction and hook-up with Ginny with interested approval - it's Slughorn. What a benediction.
4. Yes - Sectumsempra. Krisharose was the first person on this thread to talk about this passage - I'll quote the passage, along with her assessment:
| QUOTE |
| ...the looks on the Gryffindor team's faces when he had told them he would not be able to play on Saturday had been the worst punishment of all. He could feel Ginny's eyes on him no, but did not meet them; he did not want to see disappointment or anger there. He had just told her that she would be playing Seeker on Saturday and that Dean would be rejoining the team as Chaser in her place. Perhaps, if they won, Ginny and Dean would make up during the post-match euphoria...the thought went through Harry like an icy knife... HBP, 'Sectumsempra', p. 495. UK Edition. |
?????Krisharose stated the point nicely:
| QUOTE (Krisharose wrote:) |
| Not only that but the chapter also introduces us to a surprisingly callous Harry who despite almost killing Draco, is more worried about quidditch and 'winning' Ginny. Bit of a worry, isn’t it. Harry almost commits murder but can’t keep his mind of his adolescent teen romance - it’s a little bit odd for his thoughts to be straying in that direction when he’s just been covered in someone else’s blood. [my emphasis] |
Indeed. This is when his all-consuming physical attraction to Ginny stops being angsty, melodramatic and a little bit comic, and starts feeling as if something sinister is afoot. (And while I'm not even big on the love potions theory, this passage had me staring at my book while musing over the effects of amortentia.)
Seriously.
Who almost kills someone and then starts sweating bullets over a sport's match and wondering if two people are going to get back together???!!! Does this seem like normal behaviour? If this isn't 'obsession' (not to mention denial) then I don't know what is.
5. p. 592 (UK Edit.) Harry is discussing Snape and Voldemort with Ron, Hermione and Ginny. What is Ginny's response? She yawns, kisses him goodnight and decides to go to bed when Harry is in the middle of talking about something quite vital. Again, this proves to me that Ginny is just the good-time girl. Good for a laugh, a dare, a joke, prank or a bit of spur-of-the-moment adventure - but nothing more. Reasons, motivations, plans or an interest in really knowing or understanding anything aserious at a deeper level is not what she's all about.
Re: The OOtP movie:
| QUOTE |
| OOTP must show no interaction between the two of them because there wasn't any interaction on the book. |
Well there was some - more than in any of the previous books, but what are the odds that the movie is going to play up any interaction between them for all it's worth.
Westerly, that was great, as usual. Since the movie hype is over, we can now focus on book analysis. Looking back at the romance, it does look like Rowling is writing a parody, heavy emphasis on the cheese, if you please.
I think the love potions littered throughout the book could possibly a sign telling us over and over that something is amiss. I also think those run-on sentences and weird occurances whenever Ginny's name is mentioned are clues to explaining Harry's disconnected lust as well.
I think the love potions littered throughout the book could possibly a sign telling us over and over that something is amiss. I also think those run-on sentences and weird occurances whenever Ginny's name is mentioned are clues to explaining Harry's disconnected lust as well.
I am not a non-supporter, but I think this guy´s got a point:
taken fromhttp://www.livejournal.com/community/canon_sues/47887.html
Ginny has become the ultimate ‘all tell, but no show’ character. Also, she became incredibly mean spirited in the sixth book. Hexing Zacharias for asking question when last year nobody should believe what the Daily Prophet has written, but now everyone should just mindlessly believe what they hear without asking questions. Later she crashes into him on purpose after the match because she didn’t like his commentary, which wasn’t any worse then what Lee Jordan said. Trips Ron to humiliate him in front of Fleur, who she has bestowed with the childish nickname of Phlegm. Later yells at him and humiliates him in front of his friend. Rips on Hermione for not being a Quidditch fan and tells Ron that she and Viktor snogged, something that Hermione probably told Ginny confidently. Tells Harry that the Sectusempra curse was ‘a good one’, even though Harry almost killed someone. Basically, she tries to be the third twin and fails miserably at it.
All these things would not be as bad if not everyone would go on about how great Ginny is and never calling on her for her behaviour. Hexing Zacharias gets her a place in the Slug Club, crashing into him doesn’t get her detention from McGonagall. Neither Ron or Hermione can successfully rebuke her when she yells at them and neither of them seems to stay angry at her, which they would easily do with each other. Harry finds her insults about Fleur funny. Sorry, but this one of the ultimate Sue qualities, acting like a **** but everyone loves her regardless. Heck, everyone who reads pottersues knows about the ****iwitch house, so Ginny would definitely belong in there.
Annoying Special Abilities: Is such a good Quidditch player that she is better than Chaser Katie Bell who has been on the team for six years now. Also can play as Seeker almost as good as Harry, never lost to anyone. Appears to be the ‘heart and soul’ of the team for reasons unknown. She is also supposedly a very powerful witch because of the seventh child thing, but that was never mentioned in the books. We actually never witness her Bat Bogey Hex, which seems to be the only spell that she is capable of, seeing as she never uses a different one. Can act like a complete **** to all, but still be popular and beloved by all and sundry. Is so pretty that a shop keeper, Harry, Blaise Zabini and even a Death Eater say so. Is Harry’s source of comfort even though he never really tells her anything that goes on, nor does she ever comfort him about anything.
Miscellaneous Reasons The Sue Should Not Exist: She simply has no reason to exist in the books apart from being the reward for the hero and his future wife unit. She was important for the plot in CoS, but apart from that nothing Ginny does has anything to do with the plot, not even in OotP and HBP when she became a lot more prominent. She could have been removed without changing anything in the story.
Redeeming Qualities: Well, she isn’t annoying in the first four books, to me at least. She was a normal, kinda shy girl, who had a crush on a famous guy that is also her brother’s friend.
Small snippet of Sue Being Annoying:
That would be pretty much every time Ginny opened her mouth in the last two books or when she did something or when someone else talked about her and how great she is and how she has actually always been that way, but we just never got to see that. But if I had to pick one, I would say the ending of HBP and when she admitted that she never actually gave up on Harry. So, Michael and Dean were just there to make Harry notice her? How nice. She never really cared about them, that’s why she could easily dump them without actually feeling anything over rather trivial things. Of course it’s her doing the dumping, after all Ginny is so perfect, why would anyone leave her?
taken fromhttp://www.livejournal.com/community/canon_sues/47887.html
Ginny has become the ultimate ‘all tell, but no show’ character. Also, she became incredibly mean spirited in the sixth book. Hexing Zacharias for asking question when last year nobody should believe what the Daily Prophet has written, but now everyone should just mindlessly believe what they hear without asking questions. Later she crashes into him on purpose after the match because she didn’t like his commentary, which wasn’t any worse then what Lee Jordan said. Trips Ron to humiliate him in front of Fleur, who she has bestowed with the childish nickname of Phlegm. Later yells at him and humiliates him in front of his friend. Rips on Hermione for not being a Quidditch fan and tells Ron that she and Viktor snogged, something that Hermione probably told Ginny confidently. Tells Harry that the Sectusempra curse was ‘a good one’, even though Harry almost killed someone. Basically, she tries to be the third twin and fails miserably at it.
All these things would not be as bad if not everyone would go on about how great Ginny is and never calling on her for her behaviour. Hexing Zacharias gets her a place in the Slug Club, crashing into him doesn’t get her detention from McGonagall. Neither Ron or Hermione can successfully rebuke her when she yells at them and neither of them seems to stay angry at her, which they would easily do with each other. Harry finds her insults about Fleur funny. Sorry, but this one of the ultimate Sue qualities, acting like a **** but everyone loves her regardless. Heck, everyone who reads pottersues knows about the ****iwitch house, so Ginny would definitely belong in there.
Annoying Special Abilities: Is such a good Quidditch player that she is better than Chaser Katie Bell who has been on the team for six years now. Also can play as Seeker almost as good as Harry, never lost to anyone. Appears to be the ‘heart and soul’ of the team for reasons unknown. She is also supposedly a very powerful witch because of the seventh child thing, but that was never mentioned in the books. We actually never witness her Bat Bogey Hex, which seems to be the only spell that she is capable of, seeing as she never uses a different one. Can act like a complete **** to all, but still be popular and beloved by all and sundry. Is so pretty that a shop keeper, Harry, Blaise Zabini and even a Death Eater say so. Is Harry’s source of comfort even though he never really tells her anything that goes on, nor does she ever comfort him about anything.
Miscellaneous Reasons The Sue Should Not Exist: She simply has no reason to exist in the books apart from being the reward for the hero and his future wife unit. She was important for the plot in CoS, but apart from that nothing Ginny does has anything to do with the plot, not even in OotP and HBP when she became a lot more prominent. She could have been removed without changing anything in the story.
Redeeming Qualities: Well, she isn’t annoying in the first four books, to me at least. She was a normal, kinda shy girl, who had a crush on a famous guy that is also her brother’s friend.
Small snippet of Sue Being Annoying:
That would be pretty much every time Ginny opened her mouth in the last two books or when she did something or when someone else talked about her and how great she is and how she has actually always been that way, but we just never got to see that. But if I had to pick one, I would say the ending of HBP and when she admitted that she never actually gave up on Harry. So, Michael and Dean were just there to make Harry notice her? How nice. She never really cared about them, that’s why she could easily dump them without actually feeling anything over rather trivial things. Of course it’s her doing the dumping, after all Ginny is so perfect, why would anyone leave her?
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