Herminia said

Hai,
I know very well that speaking about the interview again, will irritate Nymphe, but still I want to quote some lines from that interview.

JKR: " I am aware that HBP will not delight everyone because it does shoot down theories. I mean if it didn't I haven't done my job right"

"Well, I always knew that that was going to happen that they were going to together and then part."

" And I feel that Harry and Ginny,in this book, they are total equals and they are worthy of each other.

Note that she is speaking about HBP not about the next book. And even in R/H she told that we now knew that it is R/H.
It is the readers who misunderstood her interview and claim their victory when one book is still out there. So we can't come to a final conclusion before the 7th book. I just don't understand the other shippers how they are so confident in their ships after reading 6 books of JKR and knew very well how she twisted the ends and surprised her readers.

You know, the thing is, Harry broke up with Ginny. If their relationship would have been that perfect, they wouldn't have broken up. By ending their relationship, JK states Harry and Ginny have no future together.
Besides, at the end, Ron and Hermione promise Harry to be with him. I think this is pretty foresighting, this is a symbol for the entire seventh book. It will be the trio. Ginny won't be a part of Harry's life anymore.

Now, the interview. the words 'this book' are, as Lupin123 mentioned, very important. Jk admitted with those words that Harry and Ginny are over. Pretty clear evidence if you ask me

I'm delighted that JKR broke up H/G at the end of HBP! But, I can't help but wonder if this is one of her... what do you call them? ... red herrings? Is it more likely than not that she has every intention of getting them back together in the final book? I have always felt that JKR's favorite girl character is Ginny. It certainly isn't Hermione. She may have well doomed her to life as a Weasley! JKR has stated that Ginny is a 'powerful witch', which I might add, I haven't seen her prove this in ANY of the books! All she knows is the bat-bogey hex, which is a real joke! In fact, all of HBP is a joke!

I truly dislike Ginny, especially in HBP. I even dislike what JKR did to Hermione in HBP. She made her into a total fool! And, I adore Hermione! For that matter, I'm not all that pleased with shallow, hormone-riddled Harry! What an idiot, falling for the likes of Ginny! Seems like all Ginny has to do now is crook her little finger, place it in Harry's nose ring, and parade him around Hogwarts declaring that he finally belongs to her!

Sorry, but I had to get this venom out of my system! I do feel somewhat better for having done so!

I LOVE you guys.

Perhaps the most important thing to remember about this Interview is that Rowling had months (or at the very least WEEKS) to prepare; she could figure out what sort of questions she would be asked, she KNEW romance would come up and she could anticipate the exact kind of questions and formulate tricky answers. I wouldn't expect anything LESS from her!

Emerson and Melissa finished reading the book mere hours before the Interview, and had very little time to draw up great and relevant questions that might lead to real (or at least, more revealing) answers. Besides, once the discussion turned to romance, Rowling was the one guiding the conversation, asking them if they liked it/what they thought of it. She was "glad" they liked it. Why? Glad because she wanted them to love the brevity and shallowness that was H/G or glad because she'd duped them? She said herself that HBP was "half-a-book" and if we adhere to the pattern established by the previous books, things that are held true in the first half of a book are normally disproved by the end. Hopefully, the romances of HBP will be reversed in HPO (*nods to Nymphe*).


Dumbledore's Widow, I think you're exactly right about Ginny. We haven't seen this supposed power. JK Rowling had ample opportunity to show us Ginny being powerful (in the DA, at the DoM battle) but she didn't. She had plenty of time to develop Ginny as compassionate and as Harry's equal. She didn't. To me, this says that either we weren't meant to invest in H/G - OR - Rowling is a shoddy writer who forgot to develop the Hero's One True Love. I think we'd all prefer to believe that H/G just wasn't meant to last.



**Who else here is on LiveJournal? My LJ username is herminia, so if anyone's over there, feel free to friend me. I've been meaning to ask this for awhile, but only remembered now because I ran across nymphe_ over there the other day.

You know, you guys are right. She is pretty calculating as far as making this book as surprising as possible. I LOVE the idea that she was planning out the interview for a long time. What questions they would probably ask and what her answers would be.

I have been thinking that she also seems to have orchestrated WHO she had the interview with. Emerson is NOT known for being H/Hr friendly (QUITE the opposite actually) and I think it is also common knowledge that Melissa is a Hr/R shipper also. How convenient that she would be interviewed by TWO people that ship Hr/R???

If there had been a H/Hr shipper or even someone who really didn't ship anything there would have been different questions, perhaps questions she doesn't want to be asked right now.

If she had been interviewed by someone from Veritaserum (hopefully next time?) I think they would have been MUCH less biased in their conversation.

I mean think of how biased the whole conversation was. Emerson and Melissa just made no bones about where they were coming from personally. No attempt to be unbiased at all for their general readership. JKR just kind of seemed to go along with it. (How convenient for her if she was hoping to hide her true motivations.

Hm... maybe we're not so delusional after all.....

i really hate ginny with harry
i want him with luna
Mod Edit: As Hallia explains below, please elaborate in your posts please, thanks.

Hiya potterfan101!

Could I ask you to please elaborate more in future posts? Short posts are not allowed at VTM. Please drop by the forum rules, you'll find a link to them in my signature.

If you need anything, feel free to PM me or any other Prefect.

CHeers!

umm no I really just for some reason just dont like ginny, dont know why i just dont, so that makes me not like the whole harry ginny thing

ginny just doesnt seem harryish, i mean i dont know tht much about her and you know everything about hary they dont rally mesh nicely to me.

Hey Kiru_Biru, nice to see you over here.

I haven't re-read HBP, so i don't remember if we even know how Harry ended up with maggots. Did he receive a package with maggots in them? If so, do we know who sent it? I forget. As to Ginny pulling a maggot out of Harry's hair, well, it just tells me the kid isn't squeamish. Besides, anything to touch Harry, right? Where was Hermione in this scenario anyway?!

Everything should be inside the box, Dumbledore's Widow. It was Christmas, so Hermione was not there.

This is not the first time Harry has seen maggots--remember the scene in Hagrid's hut? Harry was grossed out by believing he saw Hagrid blow bogeys into the potatoes he was peeling. Next a large container of foot-long maggots grossed out the trio that happened to be grubs for the giant spider. When Hermione went to comfort Hagrid, she went around the container...hmm...

Hi all! I don't think I've posted here before because I didn't have time to read the whole thread and I like to know what's happening. Anyways, I have some free time and I've read the last two pages.

Nymph, I enjoyed your post and your points on maggots signaling change. As far as Ginny being happy about finding a maggot, I took that in a completely different way. As much as I'd like to see it your way, I think that's reading into it a bit much. I think Jo put the word cheerfully there to show us that Ginny was comfortable around Harry (comfortable as in, thinks of him like a brother). She didn't mind touching the maggot because she's a tom-boy. Well, that's what we were led to believe but apparently she's some sort of veela-model beauty now. Or something...

This is my personal opinion on H/G. Harry's 16, he's never had a real kiss or a real girlfriend (No, I don't count his sloppy kiss with Cho as anything, really. Their date on Valentine's didn't label them boyfriend/girlfriend either). Harry doesn't have any girls around that he knows well enough to date except for Hermione and Ginny. Hermione is obviously out because he's too scared to tell her his true feelings for her. So that leaves Ginny. IMO, she's nothing but a last resort. I think by HBP, Harry was sick of not having a girlfriend and not having his first real kiss so he made himself beleive that he liked Ginny in order to finally experience having a girlfriend. It's really simple, actually. After he had his fun with her, he dumped her at the end of HBP. He did what he wanted and hopefully grew up a little in the process. Maybe now he'll be able to see that having just any girl isn't enough and he needs someone really special and meaningful to him. *cough* Hermione *cough* Truth is, I've done that myself before. Ya know, sometimes you just decide that your lonely and need a boyfriend (girlfriend in Harry's case) so you just start thinking all these lame guys are people you like. It's really silly but I've done it! I'll just get sick of being single and be like oh hey yeah that guy, well I know he's a loser and not very good looking, but maybe I like him! Yeah, I could date him I guess! .... IMO, that's where Harry's at in HBP.

Besides knowing that they're completely wrong for eachother, I just despise Ginny. I never liked her after CoS. Yeah, I know it wasn't her fault she got posessed by Voldemort, but I just couldn't get over it. It's just weird.

This is my first post, please forgive any disrepancies I only ship Snape/Lily, but I don't like Harry/Ginny. I thought Ginny was rude and obnoxious in HBP, and I thought she came out as quite a cold character. I'd just like to see Harry with someone who has natural warmth and kindness.

However, I have a theory of why Rowling portrayed Ginny the way she did. I don't think it is because of her lack of talent or ability, and I certainly dislike people calling her the "B" word or talentless just because their ship was sunk or a ship they disliked came to be. My theory has to do with Rowling's idea of an ideal girl.

It seems that nowadays the ideal girl is feisty, loud-mouthed, a go-getter. I have a family member who is a stern feminist, and sometimes I wonder whether Jo portrayed Ginny through the feminist/modern idea? Qualities like compassion, warmth and humbleness seem to be getting less and less popular, and the snotty-mouthed, brash quality is getting more and more popular in a woman/girl. I see this as the basis of Rowling's portrayal of Ginny. She has stated she thought Ginny is an ideal girl for Harry, so obviously she wrote Ginny the way she sees the ideal girl for a hero. I like kindness, compassion and warmth, but many people like girls who are "feisty". They don't necessarily see this feistiness as rude at all -I know my feminist family member doesn't. She'd just say: "It's only good women are showing men what they're really made of and what they can do!" Some people just desire different qualities in the ideal girl.

I hope Harry would find a girl who not only makes his toes sizzle, but also shows warmth and kindness in her character. However, I don't think we'll see a new character; it would be strange if JK suddenly paired him with someone completely new to us. I fear she'll either leave Harry as a lone hero (IF he lives), or make him reconnect with Ginny.
But then, there are so many other interesting characters to obsess over, too...Snape comes to mind....

Cheers!

I don't think that the fact that Ginny is more "modern" as you call it is the problem. Nowadays it's hard to find a girl that's warm and compassionate and kind and all that Cinderella stuff. I just don't like her. Rowling had a very bad ideea hooking her up with Harry mainly because Ginny had liked Harry since she was 10 and the fact that they finally got together 5 years later is too corny. Plus,the whole discovery thingy about Ginny becoming a woman and Harry finally noticing her and stuff is not cool. Of course,it would have been difficult to bring in a totally new character just to be Harry's girlfirend,but surely she could have done better than Ginny. It simply doesn't fit.

Excellent post, Severina Welcome to the forums!

That's very interesting, I hadn't thought about it like that before, but I think you're right, you know.

It does seem as though the model of an ideal girl is a 'FemiNazi' these days, which is a pity really because I can't stand women like that. You can be clever and strong and passionate without losing femininity. You can compete with men in a man's world and be regarded as an equal without coming across as some sort of feminist nightmare out of the 80's, power dressing and refusing to wear make up incase someone might think they're 'weak'.

Not to mention that it's incredibly shallow - trying to be something she's not.

I'm with you - I couldn't stand her either, right from CoS. She was like an annoying little terrier that just won't leave Harry alone and keeps trying to pee on his leg or something - she really got on my wick. Then this sudden transformation into Uber-Ginny was just totally uncharacter-like and I really don't think that someone like that would attract someone like Harry.

I know that a lot of Harry/Ginny supporters have argued that Harry needs warmth and that he is looking to Ginny because of the warmth of being in the heart of a family that she represents. I agree in as much as Harry needs warmth and comfort...he needs to be shown love. But in the same instance, Ginny has been transformed to Uber-Ginny which has ripped her from the heart of that family as she hisses and snaps at her brothers like a snake that's just been stepped on. That doesn't strike me as someone who would be happy with hearth and home - the trouble is that you can't have both. You can't portray her as an Uber-babe with 'tude and at the same time have her playing happy families either.

They just don't suit, it's as simple as that. As I said in another thread, I feel as though Ginny is a round peg who's been forced to fit into a square hole to reach Harry and you can't change the shape of a block without losing something that originally made that block what it is, you know?

I don't really mind who Harry ends up with anymore, being more of a Snape/Hermione shipper than a H/Hr one these days, but I would really hate to see him end up with Ginny. Almost anyone else would do, but I just don't think JKR is being true to her own characters if that's the course she chooses to pursue.

I like the Harry/Ginny relationship that are in the books because I believe that the person who laughs with each other more (like they do ) they will be more happier together and I hope it comes out in the last 2 movies .

Temporarily changing the subject some...

I was listening to a local radio station this morning, when the DJs said that the first Wednesday in April is designated as "Kicking Butt Day". Of course, this meant kicking the cigarette habit, but it wasn't long before the DJs were clowning around and saying that they would like to kick certain celebrities' rear ends. It appears that the #1 butt most people want to kick is Cynthia McKinney's (the black congresswoman from Georgia who attacked a Capital Building security guard with her cell phone a few days ago. Now, she's playing the race card!)
But I digress....
... Listeining to these guys made me think that I would love to kick Ginny's butt!! It would give me so much pleasure to do so! i would wear a pair of stiletto high heels, and assuming I don't fall and kill myself first from wearing them, I would kick her hard enough to create another opening with which to evacuate her bowels from! (I say this as politely as I can). Oh well, it was fun thinking about it.

Have a great Kicking Butt Day! What's left of it.

Now, to back on subject...

I came in here completely ready to read loads of comments gushing about how Ginny and Harry belong together. But to my (grateful) surprise it seems that most people dislike the idea as much as I do.

Most of what I was thinking has already been said here but for the most part I don't want Harry and Ginny together because it seems like such a cop-out. They have known each-other from the beginning, the Weasleys are practically his family, Ginny is his best friend's sister . . . it's just too easy.
And now that she's become this 'raving beauty over the course of the summer months between Harry's 5th and 6th year' as Dumbledore's Widow said, Harry suddenly notices her.

I don't think anything good can come out of a relationship where one individual spent their childhood years adoring the other. Cough Cough TomKat Or perhaps I’ve been reading too much fanficion where Harry plays for the other team.

Ginny's being discussed over here: http://www.veritaserum.com/forums/index.ph...05&#entry175833
for all interested parties!

Hello, Obe3, only pure bashing and dissecting allowed thankfully. I believe Rowling allows for fanfics to distract us from figuring her series out. I have read H/G fanfics and some of them do an excellent job of building it, which is why I do not believe H/G is it for this series. Also, has anyone noticed the symbolism for this ship has a negative tone to it?

I hate the idea of Harry with Ginny. Mainly because I just hated the way Ginny was in the 6th book. I was actually starting to like Ginny in book 5. She had good mix of spunk and sweetness and even directness. But book six she just lost it for me.

I still get angry when I think about that whole stupid fight she had with Ron because Ron still had not snogged anyone yet. That was the worst fight ever and it made Ginny look terrible to me.

Harry belongs with Hermione, plain and simple. I know some say it is too cliche, but really it isn't when you really look at the series as a whole.

Ending up with Ginny is much more cliche to me. She was the girl who crushed on him from the beginning. He was her savior from the COS, she is his best Friends sister. All of those things are pretty cliched reasons for them to be together.

I just hope that JKR meant that whole attraction to just be a momentary hormonal escape from his immense responsibility that he has to face. I can forgive Harry the need to have a physically satisfying relationship in the face of possible death inthe near future. But I am not sure I will be able to view the series in a positive way if JKR has Harry end up with Ginny. I would rather she leave it open ended than put him with her. I would rather see him with Luna than with Ginny.

I know what you mean madamepomfrey. I too hate the idea of Ginny being with Harry. And another thing, I will never, ever accept Hermione being with anybody except Harry. Those two belong with one another. It may be cliche, but it's the truth. I also agree that Harry being with Ginny is an even bigger cliche. "HBP-Ginny" was a mistake as far as I am concerned. I'll never understand why JKR had to do it. She ruined it for me. But, I'm hoping that Jo will come to her senses and correct this error of hers in book 7. There was no H/G at the end of book 6, nor will there be in book 7! Ditto for R/Hr!

And the thread rolls on.

Re: a few pages back...I think it's interesting that Ginny is perceived as a feminist or, to use the more derogatory term 'feminazi', because Ginny is not like any feminist that I recognise. My understanding of the term 'feminist' is a girl or woman who works towards legal, social, educational and economic equality for all women, and who actually cares about and identifies with other girls/women. Feminists attempt to network with and support other women. They also realise that there are issues and choices that are specific to women, that men don't face.

When does Ginny ever display such qualities or objectives? She spends most of the book being openly hostile and competitive towards other girls - Fleur, Hermione, Romilda Vane etc. when she's not being pitying and patronising (in the case of Luna). Ginny and Luna are not portrayed as true equals and friends in the book, while Hermione's and Ginny's sudden allegiance is just that - an allegiance rather than a friendship, in order to stand against Fleur and help each other secure their respective men. How is it that we never see these two enjoying each other's company and just hanging out together, ala Lavender and Parvati?

What has Ginny Weasley got to do with feminism?

Cho, Lavender, Parvati, Susan, Hannah etc. aren't feminist, but they're the closest thing that you'll find to female-identified characters in the series - females who are not afraid to be female and to have female friends as equals. Notice how, (as far as we can see) their friendships are not reliant on men or centred around boys or men? Interestingly, Rowling spends most of her time ridiculing these characters, or relegating them to the margins of the main storyline. The main female characters who do receive attention however, tend to identify with (and centralise) men. Ginny and Hermione's 'relationship' for example, is not only prefunctory but it exists chiefly through Harry and Ron's relationship.

I know that Ginny has been accused of being a 'feminazi' - a negative type of feminism - but I find this term problematic. Women who are willing to trod on other women to access male power are not feminists, or 'feminazis' - they are anti-feminist and should be identified as such. The term 'feminazi' is a deceptive term, because it infers that it's simply a type of feminism (i.e. 'extreme feminism', 'feminism gone wrong', or 'twisted feminism' etc.) when in fact, it is not "feminism" at all. I see moderately anti-feminist tendencies in Ginny - not a feminazi. (She's not even on the level of a Thatcher.) Let's not overestimate this petulant little girl.

Seeing that Ginny has her very own characterisation thread, (and there doesn't seem to be a thread to discuss the female relationships in HP) I won't go any further with it. I'll turn my attention to the H/G relationship, which this thread was created for....

Westerly, it's so nice to see you posting again!!

I have to agree with your assessment of the feminism issue...I have to admit to bandying that term about quite a bit myself, but you're absolutely right, of course.

Actually, now we come to talk about it, Ginny is about the most antithetical 'feminist' ever, the way she flicks her hair about, has grown a new female dog personality and struts from bloke to bloke in her endless quest to "get over" Harry Not exactly feminist behaviour...I suppose I just had in mind the worst sort of feminist who is so extreme as to use and abuse men in order to raise themselves up, if you know what I mean. I had the impression that she doesn't care a great deal about the way she used Michael and Dean and was only going out with them to help herself. It's a kind of clinical coldness that I paralled with feminism...which strictly wasn't correct at all, so yes...I agree with you.

Wow, great points. I agree with you all, and I think I've actually become very anti-H/G, somethings about their relationship (and Ginny) bug me. First off, as already pointed out, their "attraction" came from no where. Harry saw her snog another guy, and was suddenly in love? That's not right. I mean, where have we seen the evidence before? Also, since I care about Harry, I realize I would never want anyone who I care about dating her. A ditzy, shallow, wild, little person. I really don't care for her character at all, or the way she acts towards others. She isn't very supportive, and seems very determined to go through life without help, and that bothers me.

Sometimes I wonder whether JKR had H/G in mind as the final ship in her HP series. And then again, I think that what she really wanted was to distract her readers about the shipping. So, she gave some clues (foreshadowing) about how the shipping is meant to be. We have to remember that JKR likes to be secretive about her books. She doesn't want her readers to figure out and be right about anything, including the shipping. This is why, just when the readers think that something will turn out one way, it turns out completely the opposite. I have heard that JKR likes the shipping wars, it just confirms to her that her readers haven't a clue. She likes that.

All I can say is that if she makes it H/G (again! ) in the final book, then she missed her great opportunity of becoming a modern day Jane Austen. Besides, JKR has to know, that the real and true ship is Harry with Hermione. After all, she wrote it that way!

HOLA..

no me gusta nada la pareja:

HARRY/GINNY ---->


odio a Ginny.. permitanme unirme a su club.. y perdón por escribir en español pero es mi idioma

bye

alright, this might be because ive only read the first 3 books (i only have up to 4) but i think this h/g thing is absurd!
she only had a little girly crush on him
and from the things ive heard, it was too sudden
maybe im acting like ron or something but ginny is still a little girl in my head...i really cant take this seriously!
harry was probably trying to protect ginny, like an older brother, when he got jealous seeing her kiss another guy
the only reason that seems possible for him to be dating ginny is that his hormones are out of control
so im glad harry ditched ginny, who was only using him for his fame, to go with his true friends
yay harry!

Backtracking a little...

Hey Michelle, nice to read one of your posts too! (I agree that not all of the changes in Harry are awful; some are even positive. But I remain cheerfully sceptical of many of the Ginny-related changes... )

I'm still in the vicinity though primarily as a 'lurker' these days.

When I first joined VTM I used to wonder what on earth the acronym OBHWF, meant until I stumbled across a post that spelled it out - One Big Happy Weasley Family! which includes Harry and Hermione being incorporated into the red-headed fold via Ron and Ginny. (I'm sure that this is already familiar to you.) Needless to say, for anyone who supports this state of affairs as a desirable and pre-destined narrative outcome, (rather than a cop-out), being a Heron is simply not enough.

Simultaneously supporting H/G becomes the key to OBHWF model and is the vital glue that holds the model together; as you noted, it also jettisons the idea of Harry having any romantic relationship (and any subsequent emotional growth) outside of the Weasley clan interestingly enough. (So yes. No flings with Luna or any venturing for Harry beyond the prescribed fold. Very healthy.)

To be fair, I know there are Herons who are not OBHWFers, and couldn't care less about who Harry ended up with; or, there are those who do care - and actively don't want to see Harry with Ginny. There are also avid H/G shippers who independently support their ship free of R/H, and who also don't suscribe or are indifferent to the OBHWF model.

But, as someone noted in the following essay: http://www.harmonyforever.com/index.php?ca...displaycomments

- OBHWF sounds like some creepy breeding project that centralises (and elevates) a specific outcome, over Harry's well-being and his supposed centrality to the story. Pairing up Harry with Ginny (in order to secure R/H and the OBHWF outcome) fails to ask the question - are they genuinely suited? Are they even any good for one another? I've heard time and time again that Harry loves the Weasleys etc. and that they are his favourite family. He even seems to idealise their way of life. And now there is Ginny who connects him to all these things.

But as I've questioned in the past - what does Harry know? What basis of comparison does he have for idealising the Weasleys? His experience of family life is so incredibly limited and hardly diverse. I guess that's why there's a part of me that thinks "run Harry! Run! Get out into the wider wizarding community and the muggle world and get some real life experience before you decide that being a surrogate Weasley is what life's all about."

My objection to OBHWF! stems from the same place as my (much reiterated) objections to H/G - once again too lazy, easy, convenient, highly improbable and terribly corny. Pair him up with Ginervra and Harry isn't even required to have an adult life or to really grow up. He can just safely follow the insular childhood/teen patterns of relationships that have already been established.

Again, this is not simply about Ginny's character, but her incredbily privliged positioning in the text, which makes H/G an unbelievable, almost comic relationship to me.

Let's see... She's happens to be around the same age as him (but younger and thus somewhat submissive to him), and is a member of the same school house. She suddenly comes to share near-identical interests with him, is suddenly revealed to be a powerful witch to his wizard. She inexplicably supports him in everything that he does, and never questions or challenges him or displays any 'unseemly' emotion (ala Cho). There's more. We are to believe that she has had an unfaltering crush on Harry from the age of 10 which she has somehow managed to sustain for over 5 years despite receiving zero encouragment to fan the flames. Then after years of being overlooked and utterly ignored by Harry, she sees fit to fall gratefully into his arms without the slightest resistance. She superficially shares similar physical characteristics with his mother, and also just happens to be the sister of his best friend and a beloved member of our orphaned hero's faaaavourite family in the whole wide world...

Wow - would you look at that? Anvils indeed. Could it be anymore tidy and screamingly in-your-face? Too good to be true perhaps?

Then of course, we get the biggest, most convenient example of serial happenstance - otherwise known as "how Harry and Ginny are forced to... " I mean "How Harry 'got' Ginny." *deep breath*

Harry for no apparent reason suddenly notices Ginny; one whiff of her incredible scent and he is infested by a conga-dancing (or was it cha-cha stepping?) monster - that gives him nightmares in which he lusts for Ginny. Just as well she breaks up with her boyfriend (after he accidentally bumps into her no less) - all under the auspice of the omnipotent Felix Felicis - a wonder-potion so powerful that you have to wonder why the Death Eaters don't carry a few vials of this ridiculously 'lucky' brew on them whenever they're contriving to kill Harry. After Ginny morphs into a Quidditch wunderkind earlier in Book 5 - one who purposely breaks locks and sneaks into the broomshed in order to hone her Quidditch skills on her brothers' brooms at the ripe old age of say... 5 or 6 - we are treated to more Ginny-related miracles.

Out-of-the-blue, Ginny is a top Quidditch goal scorer through the entirety of HBP (even before Felix's lucky influence intervenes); not only is she suddenly the 'life and soul' of the team despite having a minimal history with them, she is also instrumental in winning a key quidditch match - on her almighty Cleansweep no less. The event precipitates the inevitable. Amid the victory celebration, publicity-shy, hates-to-draw-any-attention-to-himself Harry, suddenly snogs Ginny in full, hearty view of everyone - with Ron's added 'blessing' and Hermione's beaming encouragement - just to ensure that the path to true love is paved 'extra smooth'; we even get an additional 'thumbs up' from Slughorn to ensure that we, the reader, *get* how virtually anyone who is anyone in the Potterverse, will ecstatically wave their pom-poms in support of this fantabulous relationship....

Jerk those strings Rowling...

Seriously. Am I supposed to believe any of this for a second?

Forget Ginny being a 'Mary-Sue' for a second - the entire H/G relationship (the basis of it, how it happens, not to mention Ginny being specifically 'tailor-made' for Harry as Rowling herself has admitted to) is a literary Mary-Sue in its own right. And I'm sure that's why so many people find it difficult to discuss Ginny's character (in her charcterisation thread) beyond the context of her relationship to Harry. She's not a character, so much as a walking "half-ship" that's been engineered for the hero.

Personally, I find that difficult to respect - and so I don't.

This is one of the main reasons why I can't stand H/G, even more than I dislike Ginny herself, or distrust any 'darker' influence she may have on Harry. I like good writing, and so loathe the weak premise of H/G and the crappy writing that surrounds this relationship. l find all of of the idiotic coincidences and improbable occurences that we're supposed to unquestioningly swallow, bordering on insulting.

Yes, I saw the probability of H/G ponderously wavering and looming from a mile away and I detected the various 'anvils' etc. along the way. How could I not? Even before HBP was released I had stated that I was worried that JK would try to shove Ginny into prominence for no apparent reason other than to affect an H/G relationship, and well - whadd'ye know? The problem with anvils as a literary device however, are that they result in clumsy premises and clunky writing that is headache-inducing and not terribly subtle. Anvils impede, rather than enhance actual story-telling.

Just by cursorily running over the heavy-handed and frankly unconvincing course of H/G (with anvils galore), I see no reason whatsoever to believe in it, or to see it as something beyond rather awkward authorial contrivance.

All that needs to happen in order to crown H/G and OBHWF! is for Hedwig and Pigwidgeon's progeny to fly circles around the Burrow, for Crookshanks and Arnold to overcome the species barrier and start 'shipping', while that lovely Tonks and her nice husband Remus drop in for a visit with their new-born, werewolf free son, and - ugh.

Just no.

It's one thing for Harry to love the Weasleys who in many respects are like a surrogate family to him, but surely (as so many other posters have already noted), this familial affection needs to be differentiated from what he feels for Ginny. Without the valuable Weasley connection, would Ginny be quite as 'ideal' for Harry?

Westerly, good insightful post, but I'll just comment on your last sentence. We all know as readers of the HP series, that Harry loves the Weasleys and that they regard him as a son/brother. (except for Ginny, of course!) I believe that Harry's sub-conscious mind wants him to always be with this family. They obviously represent the family he never had. Ginny just happens to be a part of this family. I'm not saying that he doesn't care for Ginny, but I really don't think that he is IN love with her. She obviously has always had 'a thing' for him. But, it's because he's THE Harry Potter, NOT because he is just Harry. I get the feeling that he might have realized this. I'm also hoping that she has too. I hope that this IS the end of her school-girl crush. Frankly, I'm really, really hoping that this is the end of her as Harry's love interest. I'm hoping that Harry will not be SO needy in book 7. I'm hoping that he soon realizes that the girl he really wants to be with is Hermione. Hopefully, Ron and Hermione are NOT an item in book 7 because I would like it if Hermione realizes that she wants to be with Harry too. Gosh darn! It's so simple to give us H/Hr!!! To JKR, I say, JUST DO IT!

Westerly, that was the best anti-H/G essay I have ever read and will probably ever read. Clear, concise and just...perfect.

We are not worthy...we are not worthy...we are so not worthy...

I must tell you that I posted the link to this in an anti-H/G forum and the response is definitely in the positive.

I'm with Nymphe Westerly, that was a truly excellent post - I always look forward to reading your stuff!

As I lurk around here I just want to say a BIG THANK YOU to all my favorite posters who just keep on writing these excellent posts!


THANK YOU!!!!!!!