well, Westerly, very well said. OBHWF really really really sucks. yeah, LilyPotter. i almost cried when i read that interview. harry/ginny really [MOD EDIT] me off. it was like a fanfiction. a harry/ginny and ron/hermione pairing. i was like [MOD EDIT]? if she continue writing harry/ginny, well, she is making a complete mistake of the books. the one day she'll realize that all of her writings will not make sense at all.this is all IMO...sorry for jk bashing...and before i forget, ginny is not ginny anymore she is the oh-i-am-harry-potter's-very-beatiful-girlfiend Ginny aka GinnySue


MOD EDIT: Please watch the language. Not suitable for all audiences.

Westerly that was an amazing essay, however i don't completely agree with you. I like Ginny becuase she does have a personality. She is the one that came up with the plan in OTP so that Harry could communicate with Sirius, of coursethe plan was not completely succesfull but at least she came up with the plan. As for the fact that Harry is with her because he idializes the Weasleys it could be one of the reasons he is with her. But perhaps Harry needs Ginny, she is the only good bit in his life except Ron and Hermione. After all he has no parents, Voldemort is back, he had one rough year at OTP and he has a hard time with Snape in DADA wich used to be his best subject. Maybe Ginny is just perfect for Harry because this is the time when he needs someone who is perfect for him. Ginny is one of the extremly scarce good bits of his life. Perhaps Ginny is just what Harry needs right now, and maybe if they do stay toghether Harry will have a happy life after all these years of torment with the Dursleys.

WOAH. Talk about sensitive. Isn't this supposed to be discussing whether or not Harry an Hermione will end up together? I was just posting FACT from THE AUTHOR'S words... You need to relax. Try this on:

FROM THE INTERVIEW WITH LEAKY CAULDRON/MUGGLENET (FOR FULL INTERVIEW CLICK here)






Can it get any clearer than that? I was in no way trying to be mean... but if you wanna get mad over pure fact because you don't like the truth, then go right ahead.

MOD EDIT : And can I possibly have been any clearer about the rules regarding these VENOM threads? Go read them please, before I restrict your posting, which I'm sorely tempted to do anyway. Curb the attitude, or find another forum to post in. Refer to my post below

well JKR has done some out of the blue things in her writing (ex: H/G)
who knows what she'll do next?
i have a hunch that harry and voldemort will die at the same time
like in duel or something
i read that idea somewhere, though i cant remember where...

MOD EDIT : Please don't double post. If you need to change something, use the edit button. Thanks.

Now! Is EVERYBODY on this thread anti-H/G? I certainly hope so! It's really annoying that 'trolls' come here, post their unwelcomed comments, get their nose out of joint (because of what we say) and then refuse to leave. And, please don't spout chapter and verse of that interview. I don't care anymore. To me, it is what JKR WRITES in her books that is canon. I take what is said in interviews with a 'grain of salt'. I wish Harmony had been represented at that interview. We probably would never be having this discussion, if an H/Hr shipper had been there!

As for H/G... and !!

Sorry, guys...only just noticed the report. >.<

LilyPotter, I strongly suggest that you spend some time acquainting yourself not only with the rules for the forum which forbid typing in capitals, but also the rules regarding the VENOM threads. As it states quite clearly, the VENOM threads are for non-supporters only. Your post was therefore off topic. Two rules broken.

Consider yourself very lucky that I'm in a good mood because I'm about to leave for my holidays, otherwise an official warning would be winging its way to you. You've been here for long enough by now to know how this site works.

This thread is for Harry/Ginny ship haters, and haters only. Anyone else posting here and getting uppety gets a kicking. I hope that's perfectly clear.

Guys, don't waste your breath responding to these things. Just ignore them and they'll go away.

Thanks Michelle! Have a nice holiday. We'll still be here when you get back! Don't worry, the cliche, "while the cat is away the mouse will play!" will NOT apply here.

Ok, back to the topic at hand, "Venom: H/G".
I'd like to ask my fellow Harmony shippers whether or not they think JKR will reunite Harry and Ginerva in book 7. Personally, I believe that H/G is over. I think that JKR meant for it to be over. After all, she did say she wanted H/G to come together and then part. Besides, Harry will be so busy trying to find the Horcruxes in book 7 to bother with Ginny. I have always been of the belief that 'time doesn't make the heart grow fonder'. However, I believe that during this year, Harry will come to realize that he is falling for a certain pretty, brown-haired girl who just happens to be one of his best friends!

Well there is just something about Harry and Ginny together. I just don't like the pairing. In the 6th book when they kiss in front of everyone well, I just think Ginny takes it for granted that many people would be willing to go out with her and that was a bit too much, too confronting. Also I think Ginny is too well known. Even though I didn't like the Harry/Cho pairing either, Cho wasn't a known character really until the 4th book. I would like to see Harry with someone that we don't really know too much about, that way we can learn more about them.

*~*Stephanie*~*

I agree that H/G is over. I think it was a shipping distraction in the 6th book. I didn't think so when I first read the book, but now that I'm into the second reading, it seems clearer than ever. Especially the line at the end where Harry breaks up with her, saying that their relationship has been "like something out of someone else's life." I think JKR was trying to illustrate that their relationship wasn't something typical of our Harry; it was something he wanted because he wanted to feel like someone else for awhile, but it isn't who he really is. Ginny is the popular, pretty girl who is a member of the Weasley family, and through her Harry could feel like a regular, popular teenaged guy - focusing on snogging and quiddich - and he could imagine being part of a big, happy, Weasley family. But in the end, he knows this is not who is is. There is more to him, and he cannot hide from it. As others have pointed out, the H/G relationship exemplifies doing what is easy, as opposed to what is right. I also think Ginny will come to realize that she does not really know the "real" Harry, and cannot be a part of what he has to do, as Ron and Hermione are.

I also think that perhaps the love potions in HBP are illustrating the superficial nature of the H/G relationship. Even if no one actually used potions on Harry, I believe that their repeated appearances in the book are alluding to the idea of false love, insinuating that the current "ships" that are going on (H/G, R/Hr, and to some extent R/Lav) are infatuations or obsessions, rather than "true love".

I must apologize for my earlier posts... As a matter of fact, I didn't read the rules for posting in SHIPS before posting, because I didn't think I would ever be posting about one... I kind of stumbled in here out of the blue. I thought the all the threads were about discussing what we thought would happen in the books. Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion on what should/should not happen in the HP books, including ships. Sorry again for the inconvenience, but another day gone, another lesson learned. Please accept my apologies... and I'm pretty much done with this thread now Have fun guys!

P.S. I think DD and Minerva had something going on... Just thought I would random that in there!

Another visual change for the boards!

Just three things:

1.) Thanks for all of the responses to my long-winded post. (It's not an essay! ) I'm glad to see this thread is still going.

2.) Ginny 1991 - thanks for the compliment. I wasn't trying to assert however, that Ginny was sans personality. (In her characterisation thread I have repeatedly asserted that Ginny does have a personality in HBP, but that it is one that is thinly sketched, and unpleasant, and that I consequently fail to warm to.)

My criticism in this thread is in part about Ginny's characterisation rather than her 'personality'. Character is a fictional function that incorporates 'role' and personality. 'Role' is distinct from 'personality', which, is a collection of identifiable traits that are consistently portrayed by a specific character. Ginny's character - i.e. the way in which the author constructs Ginny, portrays her personality and positions her in the text - fails to convince me as a reader about the plausibility of her construction, which in turn elicits the scepticism with which I view H/G. (If I doubt the solidity of one the characters in this relationship, then unsurprisingly, the ship in turn is rendered problematic, no?)

Yes, action can reveal character. Journey, process and interiority however, (the latter of which denotes the emotional inner life and struggles of a character) are also a vital part of character construction, and the areas in which Ginny is severely lacking.

It would not be difficult to create a list of all of the things that Ginny does that may provide some insight into her character (i.e. her role in the book) and her personality (i.e. what she is like as a person). It is far more difficult however, to make an acount of Ginny's growth, or to access her interior life - we know little about Ginny's own thoughts, ideas, hopes, dreams, desires or ambitions etc. that are not in some way linked to Harry, and as I've said many times before, it seems to me as if neither JK (nor Harry) seems to think that Ginny is interesting enough to actually be contemplated within her own right.

Ginny's (Harry-centric) actions are accessible to reader. What is less accessible however is what Ginny thinks or feels of her own accord, unrelated to Harry. She lacks a seperate, individualised interiority, that other characters are furnished with despite the fact that Harry serves as the narrative lens throughout the series. We are also aware that Ginny changes, but we are not privy to that process. In other words we don't see, and therefore we do not know how she changes (though we can make a good guess as to why. )

If I attempt to make an account of Ginny's interiority, this is what I see:

We know that she has a crush on Harry Potter and is star-struck and bashful in Harry Potter's presence; Ginny is also very concious of being the youngest Weasley who is under Molly's stifling jurisdiction. She longs to attend Hogwarts like her brothers before her. She also resents being 'mollycoddled' by Molly and protests viciferously against it. We learn something about Ginny in her own right.
She wants to be her own person, and is desirous of freedom.

Unfortunately, this important aspect of her character is eventually tied to and subordinated by the spectre of Harry, when we come to realise in later books that her various bids for independence from Molly are largely related to being old enough to be among Harry's peers and in the line of his vision. Later, she (understandably) objects to Ron's controlling behaviour and defends her right to date other boys. But again, this display of 'independence' is revealed to strategically support her aim to be noticed by Harry.

So much for inner growth...

When Ginny is finally of age to attend Hogwarts she feistily defends Harry Potter from Draco Malfoy. She also writes a childish Valentine to Harry Potter, yet is pained by her poverty because she believes that it pushes her ouside the scope of (the great) Harry Potter's attention or liking (Riddle's diary); in TGoF she wants to go the ball with Harry Potter and is crushed when she can't; in Book Five she develops a sudden and convenient interest in Quidditch which just happens to coincide with Harry Potter's own love for the sport. As Ginny 1991 noted, with Fred and George's assistance she concocts a daring plan to contact Sirius in order to asisst (and impress) Harry Potter. She alleviates Harry Potter's fears about being possessed by Voldemort, and admonishes then accompanies Harry Potter to the DoM without fear or question. Amid all of this, Ginny is dating other boys and we are informed that this is an outward manifestation of Ginny's newfound maturity and inner growth. She is apparently "over Harry". (Note how even in this instance, Ginny's supposed maturity is indelibly related to Harry Potter rather than occuring as an independent event. She is mature, not because of anything that she does or says in her own right that might indicate this, but because she is no longer fixating on Harry.)

In Book 6 Ginny feistily defends Harry Potter - this time from a sneering Blaise Zabini. She performs hexes against someone who is prying about the Deparment of Mystery debacle, which was led by Harry Potter. She is arguably protecting Harry's right to privacy as much as her own in this instance. In Book 5 she befriends Luna Lovegood. In Book 6, she defends Luna Lovegood, an act which caused many readers to establish a connection between her and Harry Potter's mother, Lily Evans; it also mirrors Harry's own sympathy and indignation over Luna in Book 5.

Her relationship with Dean incites Harry's jealousy and interest. She makes Harry laugh (by victimising Fleur, Ron, and Zacharias Smith in front of Harry), she supports him, defends him, comforts him and so on. We also discover that we were misled in Book 5, and that *surprise* Ginny has been carrying a torch for Harry all along.

Harry Potter, Harry Potter, Harry Potter - *sighs* Ginny Weasley is all about Harry, to such an extent that one has to wonder if there is anything leftover for Ginny, and as Allie succintly queries in 'Ginny's characterisation thread' "Where is Ginny? Just Ginny?" What about her? Who or what is she, without Harry Potter? Does she have a sense of self that isn't intricately tied to Harry? JK even states in an interview that Ginny was 'made' for Harry and has (apparently) become 'worthy'. Worthy of what exactly? Of being a prominent and interesting character? Of being an associate of the trio? Of being part of a drive to defeat Voldemort? Of being seen as a powerful witch and a force to be reckoned with? Of being more than just a member of the Weasley clan? Of performing heroic deeds in her own right? No.

Ginny, we are informed is 'worthy' of Harry Potter. That's it. That's the journey. At this stage, Ginny's 'journey' hasn't involved evolving into a stronger, independent or more interesting character, or a more powerful or accomplished witch; nor was it one that consisted of Ginny becoming more relevant and important to the central plot; her journey consists of arriving at a point where she can function as Harry's idealised love interest. Getting Harry is the entirety of Ginny.

This is mirrored in a text that does not seem to have seen fit to portray Ginny as anything other than Harry's hidden, but idealised girl, a perfect platter of wish-fulfilment. Or in other words, Harry's rib. (A point which I have fruitlessly argued in the 'characterisation' thread until the point of hoarseness.) Ginny 1991 has pointed a few of the ways in which Ginny is conveniently perfect for Harry, but what about the other side of the equation?



What about Ginny? What does Harry fulfil or do for Ginny? The fact that very few H/G shippers pause to consider this, supports my argument that this is an imbalanced ship that is heavily skewed in order to (superfluously) fulfil Harry's wants, needs and (escapist) fantasies with little consideration for the needs of Ginny Weasley as a character or person in her own right. Hence my comment that (while Ginny has personality) she is not a true character, but 'half a ship' or plot device that serves Harry's current desires. To touch on DW's query, once Harry's situation changes and his needs and wants alter as they invariably will, where will that leave Ginny?

And what kind of relationship are we dealing with here, when only the needs of one party come into consideration? For a romance to be believable, and healthy, it is important for readers to see two people who are constructed as seperate characters within their own right (complete with independent identities, desires, and goals which may or may not be held in common) negotiate a way in which they can work together and be together. There is no process of obstacles to be overcome, clashes to resolved, or mismatches to be negotiated with H/G however, because Ginny is authorially fashioned to neatly fit into Harry's life which negates the need for struggle, compromise, or journey. Simply moulding and trimming Ginny to 'fit' Harry is not interesting in the slightest, but reeks of contrivance. No wonder these two never have so much as a genuine disagreement, or negotiate anything. How could they when Ginny for all of her surfac fire is merely the answering reflection of his dreams?

The problem with the whole 'Adam and Eve' scenario is that it puts Ginny/Eve at the disadvantage of being inherently subordinate to Adam/Harry. After all, she is 'made' for him and has no other purpose.

Romance is a genre that is reliant on process, the most interesting of which is when two people who are not 'made for each other' come to a particular understanding. Once again, I'll draw on the example of Will/Lyra of His Dark Materials to illustrate a point. They are compatible in many respects, and are suited to one another, but never once is this suitability flawless or a mere plot device. If Lyra was designed to be 'perfect' for Will for example, then why should readers be interested in a pre-determined, static and foregone conclusion?

Unsurprisingly, some people find this problematic not only for Ginny's characterisation, but in terms of a believavle relationship between Ginny and Harry that goes beyond being temporary. If she is ideal for a particular place and time, and a specific point in Harry's life, what is to say she won't be locked in that particular place and point in time, as Harry moves on?

While Harry is the central focus of the text, and other characters have varying degrees of relationship with Harry, none of them exist solely and narrowly in relation to Harry, in the manner that Ginny Weasley has thus far in the series. They have problems, concerns, desires, and ambitions that extend beyond Harry. Malfoy, Zabini, Nott, Luna, Neville, and even Ron and Hermione have lives beyond Harry.

3.) To definitively answer DW's question regarding an H/G reconciliation? I sincerely hope not, and I also agree that too many people overlook JK's plan to bring them together - and then seperate them. I also concur with Elizabeth Bennet's post. That is exactly how I regard H/G - a ridiculous ride from reality that has mercifully come to an end. JK hasn't revealed anything that is not obvious to the reader though. H/G do come together and then part. Beyond than however, it is hard to say. I have no idea what JK will do, though her enthusiasm for H/G seems genuine enough. What I will argue however, is that she has given me very little evidence to suppose that this relationship is more than just a hormonal, adolescent phase with Harry or that it has the potential to be an enduring relationship. So the tenure of the relationship (a few weeks, with very little insight into the inner workings of it) along with the 'split' seems to be appropriate to me, given how little basis we have for rooting for or investing in it.


Book 7 will reveal all though.

i read somewhere that draco malfoy could have been the one who actually wrote that poem to harry, just as a joke to embarrass him, of course
because ginny weasley would never refer to voldemort as "the Dark Lord"
and how exactly did draco know that ginny wrote the poem?
because she didnt write it, he did

i only wanted to point that out

back on topic...
i read somewhere else that JKR had said that *sniff sniff* she had meant for harry/ginny and ron/hermione all along *tear*
i, too, believe H/G was a distraction
and all the love potions mentioned
clearly a sign that this what not true love
oh, how i hope JKR will come to her senses!!
ginny is not the girl for harry
id rather him be single!

Ah, yet another fabulous post from Westerly!
Always a pleasure to read.



As much as I dislike this ship, I cannot believe that I had not even considered this point before *smacks forehead*. What DOES Harry do for Ginny, other then give her popularity higher status for being with "The Chosen One?" This point also helps to bolster my hope that H/G was created as a superficial distraction for Harry before he sets off to face Voldemort. If Ginny is supposed to be his "true love" and the final ship, we (hopefully) would have seen much more of their relationship in HBP. I mean, we had to be told that they got on wonderfully because we were hardly shown anything of substance.

Ginny is given so little depth, we see nothing of her inner motivations, as Westerly so aptly points out. Even once she gets together with Harry - who is the main point of view of the story - we still see relatively little of their interactions as a couple. Why? There can be only two answers:

1) We are not meant to get too attached to this ship as it is a passing fancy of Harry's, meant to distract readers from a more surprising ship and/or something that Harry needed at this time in his life, but will not be very substantial to the rest of the plot.

OR

2) JKR is not very good at writing romantic relationships.

I don't know about you all, but I am really hoping it's the former

Well, I'm hoping you meant to say "the former" because I also think that "we (the reader) are not meant to get too attached to H/G because it is a passing fancy of Harry's, meant to distract readers, ... and/or something that Harry needed at this time in his life...". But, by the same token, I also believe that JKR is NOT very good at writing romance!

Oops! Thanks Dumbledore's Widow. I've edited the post.

I suppose my extreme dislike for this ship makes me a bit trigger-happy with the "add reply" button.

Eliazabeth Bennett, it's not a problem. Glad to help out a fellow shipper!

I believe that because love potions are mentioned throughtout HBP, that maybe they are suppose to be symbolic for Harry's fling with Ginny. Perhaps the reader is to look upon their relationship as nothing more than teenage angst and lust. It's just too shallow, to be everlasting. Harry's obsession for Ginny is governed by that stupid monster in his shorts ... er, chest! Several people, from opposing ships, have said that they are just being teenagers. That just because they are teens doesn't mean that they don't love one another. Well, I agree with the statements, but in this case, in the Harry Potter novels, I beg to differ! Harry is no more in love with Ginny than the man in the moon! He said it best himself, and I paraphrase, "... it was like living somebody else's life...".

So, LOVE POTIONS are SYMBOLIC for UNFOUNDED LOVE.

I don't think they will have a REAL relationship. One that is like they kiss more or less, spend more time together, things like that. Hermione and Rons relationship is like 'I hate you, I hate you...but then again I love you.' I they 6th book you see how little time they spend together. And he breaks it off when Dumbledore dies. To me it makes no sense! I wonder why.........

For me there's nothing interesting about Ginny. Yes, she may be pretty, popular and and accomplished caster of the Bat-Bogey hex.. so what? She's hollow, I don't like her. And she kas that knack of joining conversations when she really isn't supposed to. Why would Harry like her?

harry_loves_hermione, to answer your question why Harry would like Ginny, I'd have to say that it's because Harry underwent a transformation in book 6. Harry in HBP is very shallow, not himself at all and is being unrealistic. He said it best himself, during their break up scene, and I paraphrase: that it was as if it was living somebody else's life (his time with her). Also, the stupid 'monster' of his, the one that really does reside in his shorts, rears its ugly head whenever he thinks or sees Ginny. His hormones are totally out of control in HBP. I guess JKR meant it when she said she wanted to get Harry and Ginny together and then have them part. I just hope that Harry grows up before the start of book 7, and realizes that Ginny is not the girl for him. She's nothing but fluff!

Hope you don't mind newbies! Good posts here!

I really wasn't opposed to H/G at first, but now I am, totally. If Ginny had gotten over her crush, gotten to know Harry as a friend, and then they had got together, I could have stood it, even if I think Ginny is a poorly written charcter, but the way it was done turned me off the ship.

He never cares what she thinks, or talks to her about what she wants or needs. It's so superficial. She pines for him for years, and then jumps into his arms when he finally notices her, which irritates me. I have daughters, and I'd tell them to give up on any guy that treated them like that. He didn't comfort her when he led her crying, out of the chamber. He didn't comfort her when her father was attacked, or when Bill was mauled. He only thinks about himself with her, and what he wants. He has more empathy for Luna, for God's sake.

And he knows being with her is like living someone else's life. It's not his life. It was a nice taste of normalcy before the war started up again, in my opinion.

I think Harry or Ginny might die in the last book, but if they both live, I really hope they are NOT together in the end. I especially hate the argument that Hary has to marry Ginny to reallly be a Weasley. For one thing, they will be very young, and may not know what they really want at that age. They will need some time to get past everything that has happened to be stable. And for another thing, he already is considered a Weasley, not that he always wants to be. He has never wanted Molly to have parental authority over him.

The way H/G happened just disappointed me so much. I was realy happy that they broke up at the end, even though I knew Harry was being stupid, and that it can't protect her, if no one knows about it!

i agree
that relationship was nothing but out of control hormones!!!





very true!!
ginny is so desperate that she come running to him after all those years he basicly ignored her...
wasnt it about time she got over him?!
she's had three books where she was hardly mentioned, and she comes back as the "love of his life"?!
um, i think not...





i personally dont think any off the kids (actually, teens) will get married in the end
i mean they're only 17!!!
and the thought of harry joining the weasley family is nauseating...
it would all be too perfectly fit together!!!

I could not agree more, Die Zimtzicke! Harry is uncharacteristically selfish and irresponsible in many ways in HBP. He allows Slughorn to think he is a master potion-maker, when he is merely copying the Half-Blood Prince's insights, he uses the Sectumsempra spell on another human being when he did not know what it would do, and he did not notice Ginny seriously until he saw her kissing Dean. He had spent nearly all summer with her at the Weasley's with no hint of romance. I think when he saw her, he felt jealous. Someone he knew to have a crush on him had now seemed to move on. He didn't react much to her relationship with Michael Corner in book 5 because he was too into Cho, too busy with Umbridge and the Prophet stories and O.W.L.S., and because he never really saw Ginny and Michael together.

But in book 6, Harry no longer cares for Cho, Ron and Hermione appear (to Harry at least) to be interested in each other which would leave him out of the trio, and he is desperate to feel "normal" as he had recently suffered the loss of Sirius and learned of his prophesized fate from Dumbledore. I think Harry is feeling monumentally insecure about his ability to be "The Chosen One". He has always felt like "just Harry" and not some great hero. His dishonestly in allowing others to think him a potions master, and his sudden desire to win Ginny's affections are, in my opinion, desperate, subconscious attempts by Harry to make himself feel special, to boost his confidence. Something had to give for poor Harry, and I think the idea of "winning back" Ginny's affections was just the distraction and ego-boost he needed.

In the end, however, Harry must face reality. Dumbledore is gone, the Half-Blood Prince is revealed to be Snape, and he realizes he has been pretending to be someone he is not with Ginny. He leaves Ginny, saying that it is for her protection, and yet he never considers leaving Ron or Hermione behind, who would arguably be in far more danger than Ginny as they are more known to the Death Eaters and to Voldemort as being closer to Harry than anyone else. Ron and Hermione are part of the "real" Harry's life. They are who is truly needs. Harry used Ginny, though not intentionally, just as Ginny probably used Harry to fulfill her fan-girl fantasy of being with "the hero who conquered the Dark Lord." She was a peripheral infatuation who fulfilled his temporary need for normalcy and confidence.

Ginny wants to stay with Harry at the end and be part of the fight against Voldemort - just as she ran along side the Hogwarts Express as it carried Harry, Ron, and Hermione to school in the first year. This has nothing to do with her feelings for Harry, but is more about the youngest and only girl of seven children wanting to make a name for herself in her own right. She wants the fame and glory. She wants to be the hero's girlfriend.

Ron and Hermione, on the other hand, want to help Harry survive. Ron has yearnings for glory as well, but is loyal to Harry above all. He has spent years with Harry, facing his worst fears and near-death experiences, yet remaining by his side. In a sense, he has "been there." Ginny's experience in CoS with the diary, while frightening, amounted to a damsel in distress situation. She was a victim and nothing more. She also faced the DoM, but she was part of the big group that went, one of the people Harry specifically did not want to come, and her involvement was relatively minimal. Hermione has shown no interest in fame whatsoever, and is almost obsessively concerned with Harry's well-being. If she had her way, Harry would not be "The Chosen One." Can we say that about Ginny? Would Ginny have ever had any interest in Harry if he was not the famous hero? This is why Ron and Hermione must come with him, while Ginny merely wants to. This is why the H/G relationship could never work in the long run, and therefore has to be over.

I agree with Die Zimtzicke.

As easy as it may be to dislike Ginny, or dislike H/G it is important to consider the relationship from Ginny's perspective. If you're only focusing on Harry, then that indicates a real problem because relationships aren't founded on just one person. I guess what I'm about to write is an H/C-H/G comparison, which looks at how the first relationship functioned, and how it may have led to the H/G. I will be spending a lot of time on H/C but will not be arguing that H/C is the better ship or that it my 'personal preference' (it's not), which is against the rules of Venom threads. What I want to do instead is describe the first relationship in order to highlight a recurring pattern and throw some light on Harry perceives romantic relationships in general and what (thus far) he requires from them.

I've always thought that Harry alas, has a tendency to be self-absorbed ( - even in his relationship with Ron and Hermione - ) but this tendency is never more evident than when we see him partnered up with Cho, then Ginny (where his self-absorption reaches absurdly new heights - or is that lows?) Harry exclusively focuses on himself and his own problems when he is with Ginny. She may as well not really exist as far as he's concerned. It's ridiculous that for most of Book 6, his greatest concern over a possible relationship with Ginny is with what Ron will think of it, and how it will affect Ron. His secondary concern is that Dean is a potential obstacle. That's it. He devotes more thought to and consideration of Ginny's brother and her boyfriend than her. Even his entire 'internal debate' about his 'illicit' lust for Ginny is decidely Ron-centric.

He cannot perceive her as anything but an 'object' to 'possess'. It doesn't even occur to him that one of the difficulties that may be involved in 'winning' Ginny may not be with Ron or Dean but with *gasp* Ginny herself. That, she might not return his desire, may have genuinely moved on or could even refuse him. He never even thinks that she might have a will of her own, let alone in what direction it might lie. There is none of the nervous trepidation that he had when he asked Cho out or a sense of risk or uncertainty. But how could there be, when he never actually asks Ginny anything and assumes that his desire alone, makes a relationship not only possible, but inevitable? Providing he can get Dean out of the way and secure Ron's approval? Sold! He never even stops to wonder how Ginny currently views him or how she might feel about him because he's in the grip of obsession and too busy exclusively focusing on what he wants and satiating the demands of his latin-dancing monster. Ginny may be 'what' he fixates on, but his real concern lies with himself.

I would argue however, that his lack of interest in and awareness of Ginny as a person in her own right, falls in line with his behaviour with Cho, which may not be nearly as 'uncharacteristic' as we would like to think...

I'm aware that Cho is disliked around these parts, and that she is regarded as a purely selfish, clingy and whiny character but it did strike me as rather strange that even though Harry supposedly 'liked' Cho, her tears did not move him to empathy or caring. Her crying discomforted, annoyed and clearly frightened him. Instead of reaching out for Cho, he wished for nothing more than escape. He never tried to comfort her or alleviate her pain - and actively sought to ignore or avoid it. The one thing that he could have provided for Cho - someone to talk to and, the opportunity for closure, he withheld. Cho's desire to confirm how Cedric died however was neither 'monstrous', abnormal nor unreasonable. It was only 'selfish' in the way that grief can at times be blinkered and internal. When someone dies in violent and mysterious circumstances, it is perfectly natural for family, loved ones or a girlfriend/boyfriend to want to know what happened and to frantically look for answers. Not knowing what happened is usually the worst thing, because it makes a person a prisoner of their own imagination which, heightens and prolongs the pain.

Having a real idea of what happened sometimes helps people to move on.

Harry could have momentarily pushed aside his own pain and given her that closure (which might actually have helped him as well) - if he had genuinely loved her or even liked.

But he didn't. He was not willing to push past his own discomfort, and his illusory 'peace-of mind' to offer her a shred of comfort. His own comfort was his primary concern. While Harry as a 15-year old boy may not have been experienced enough to effectively handle such a weighty situation, I defy anyone to try and tell me that Harry was even sensitive with Cho, or that he made any real attempt to be, aside from an uncomfortable pat on the back. He just wanted her to stop crying, and be pretty and 'fun' to be with, and began to secretly resent and ridicule her (with Ron) when she didn't fulfil his expectations. (It is not surprising to me that JK has been accused by some readers of not liking women. I number among such readers and wish there was a seperate thread for examining this issue.)

Sure, Harry was willing to kiss Cho beneath the mistletoe (noting that even though she 'looked as though she had been crying', *thank heavens*, she still looked 'pretty'. )

He just didn't want to talk to her or share anything of importance with her, that's all. And unlike Robo-Ginny who has been engineered to fall in love (and in line) with Harry, Cho had the audacity to actually challenge Harry's shallow assumption of how romantic relationships work, and thus, be a 'nuisance.'

While Cho certainly wasn't perfect or blameless in the relationship, she did offer him the opportunity to interact with her beyond a physcial level and at least talk about his traumatic experience; yes, part of her motivation was certainly self-interested and even selfish perhaps, but was it so unreasonable for her to 'dare' to have some kind of expectation of Harry and need something from him such as a listening ear, kindness or emotional support? Ginny by contrast, is so emotionally sealed off from the reader that, aside from her absurd crush on him, we have no idea of what (as a human being) she might possibly need from Harry or what he could provide for her. Part of Cho's anger against Hermione stemmed from the fact that although she was 'the girlfriend' it seemed as if he couldn't be bothered confiding in or seeking comfort from her, and placed Hermione above her. Unlike Ginny, who is content with merely being 'the girl' on the periphery, Cho at least sought for some kind of equity and connection with Harry, and wanted to be of importance to him.

Say what you will about Cho but, unlike Ginny, she was not interested in merely fulfilling someone's fantasy. Unfortunately, she was probably unaware that Harry saw her as a fantasy figure and 'ideal girl' rather than a human being. She was attracted to him as early as Book 4, and mistakenly thought (in Book 5) that as her boyfriend he was someone that she would be able to talk to about a crucial problem.

But as we've seen with both the H/C and the H/G set-up, Harry isn't interested in talking with his 'girlfriends', though he will at least talk to girls who are his friends as equals and human beings. But in terms of a girlfriend he just wants a good-looking girl who he can spend happy, uncomplicated time with. Interestingly, when Cho later paired up with Michael Corner, he wryly concluded that she would be 'happier' with Michael - a statment that is indicative of Harry's fundamentally flawed understanding relationships. True, people do not seek romantic connection with the intention of being miserable - expected happiness is certainly one of the attractions; but, a 'romantic' relationship that is built solely on the expectation of 'happiness' and an absence of conflict, is problematic. A relationship that can only tolerate good times but founders at the first sight of possible complication, and shipwrecks during stormy weather is an illusion.

Harry's interest in Cho was predicated on his own idealisation of her of as the pretty, popular and problem-free girl with flowing hair and an attractively cheeky grin as they played Quidditch; the second he had to deal with her as a flawed human being however, who cried, complained, and was at times jealous and depressed - 'loving' Harry couldn't sprint away from her fast enough. Cho's problems were a hinderance to his peace-of-mind since all he seeking was a comfortable escape from his life and a haven from his own considerable problems. He didn't want to have to think about Cedric (or death) and he certainly wasn't prepared to be confronted with someone else's grief over an issue that he was trying to suppress.

I think Harry deserves some responsibility for the situation with Cho - and that the H/C ship provides valuable clues into the current H/G nonsense. If he wanted a pretty, popular, care-free Quidditch player with silky hair and 'good humour' (which is his obvious ideal) - then perhaps he should have thought twice about getting involved with a girl whose boyfriend had recently died. Did he honestly think that the sunny, smiling glimpses of Cho that he occasionally caught across the Quidditch pitch or encountered in the hallway were the entire person? Did it not occur to him that Cedric's death would have an affect on her as a person? If he wanted something straightfoward and uncomplicated (ala H/G), why did he continue to pursue Cho, cross his fingers and simply hope that she wouldn't cry, only to scorn her when she did?

Cho failed because she wasn't a dream girl; she was a real person in a difficult situation with real problems that she wanted him to share in. She wasn't about to block out Voldemort's return and the very real consequences of it, or behave as if nothing had happened. She couldn't fake being an extension of Harry's desires or help him bury his head in the sand. She wasn't about to provide him with a snog-fest.

What does all of this have to do with H/G?
Well, the Good Ship H/G is the antidote to all of this. Ginny gives him no problems and has no problems of her own to get in the way of his comfort - she places no demands on him and expects nothing of him in return which means that Harry is free from ever having to be responsive or reciprocate in anyway. He isn't required to share any of his real life, or self with her, and he can maintain an illusion while avoiding true intimacy. In fact, Harry doesn't have to do a thing to forge a 'relationship' with Ginny since the entire set-up is Felix-orchestrated. Even though she'll go out of her way to defend (and impress him), and win his regard, name one instant when Harry does the same for her. Just one.

She has no 'discomforting', inconvenient or messy emotions to get in the way either, and if there is one thing Harry is big on, it is emotional safety. Being with Ginny is easy because there is nothing to face and nothing to avoid. Even when she's on the verge of complicating his clear horizons by protesting against his will (end of HBP), Harry just makes the decisions anyway; she submits and ultimately preserves his peace of mind (and possibly her own into the bargain) and never complicates matters. Ginny's desires or possible peace of mind is not even allowed to feature as an issue in their farewell scene. Once again, it is all about Harry. She fulfills all his fantasies and desire - end of story, and transports him away from his life, rather than entering the full reality of his life and becoming a substantial part of it. Things will always be straightforwards and deceptively 'light' with Ginny since she has no depth or dimension to weigh things down.

She's not a real person, and it's not a real relationship.

JK states that "in this book, Harry and Ginny are totally worthy of each other." (Or, words to that effect.) I honestly laughed when I read that, because the exact same thought crossed my mind after reading HBP. Ginny's fantasies of being with 'famous Harry Potter' are fulfilled when Harry suddenly loses his head over her, while she in turn props up Harry's desire to chill at Snogwarts with a pretty, popular sporty gal on his arm. They are equals in the process of fantasy construction and idealisation/idolisation, so indeed are 'deserving' of one another. I only hope that in Book 7, the bell rings and playtime is finally over, so that Harry can get "back to life, back to reality."

Just as with H/C (Harry's original, failed fantasy), I cannot support H/G because Harry doesn't really have much regard for his partner in either relationship. He is myopic to the needs of either girl and thinks only about his own comfort and emotional well-being. With either girl, Harry is decidedly selfish.

ETA: I agree that H/G's sudden emergence was unconvincing even though I anticipated this relationship. Closer examinaton of H/C provides a visible template for what Harry wants and expects out of a romantic relationship and his ideal woman. Cho fails, where Ginny succeeds. We as readers probably had no right to expect something deeper and more thoughtfully considered to follow the heels of H/C, for there is no evidence that Harry ever gives Cho or his relationship with her a backward glance, ;et alone a second thought. In HBP he makes no effort to consider what happened with Cho; nor does her feel that he has any responsibility for what went wrong. Since he never reflects on that relationship (and sweeps it under the carpet with so much other baggage from Book 5), then why should we as readers, have expected real growth or improvement when the subsequent 'HBP hook-up' rolled around and slapped us between the eyes? Since Rowling never allows Harry to sit down and genuinely examine his ideals of 'love' or even romance, then he can't re-configure or reliquish them. You can't learn from what you won't look at, or change what you refuse to consider.

Small wonder that we got the fantasy-land that was H/G. H/G is just Harry's idealised vision of H/C, revamped and materialised. He takes his old, failed expectations of Cho and simply transfers them on to Ginny who, is more than willing to meet them.

In all honesty, I think Harry has a relationship problem period, but my main problem with the H/G hookup in HBP is it came out of nowhere. I didn't feel like JK had set their relationship up to be believeable. The thing about them is, Ginny's had this thing for Harry for years, and without realizing it, Harry's gotten comfortable with that. Then, when he realizes he can't have her, suddenly he wants her... because all this time there's been no competition, she was crazy over him and he knew that... but when he comes to realize it's not that easy... that there are things in the way and she might not want him anymore... that's when he decides he has a thing for Ginny. I think more than anything, thier relationship was about Harry's comfort level, and his trying to keep one predictable constant in his life... his stab at normality, not his actual feelings for Ginny. I dunno, IMO, it just happened too quickly and out of the blue for it to be a deep relationship.

I agree COMPLETELY! Harry suddenly saw that he couldn't have Ginny, so he wanted her. The relationship came out of nowhere, so I am inclined to belive that Harry was just having horemones problems. Harry and Cho didn't work, and I don't think Harry and Ginny will work either.

May I start out by saying, great post Westerly! Really a fantastice read. You nailed it completly. In regards to that quote above, I believe that H/C didn't work out was because, as you said, Cho was too emotional, wanting to confront her feelings, and Harry just couldn't deal with it. He didn't want to discuss Voldemort, Umbridge or his OWLs coming up, he just wanted to get out of reality and really just .. get away. Cho, actually having a personality, and being a rounded human being, couldn't just forget everything and pretend like nothing happend. And so it didn't work out.

Harry, his troubles increasing, knowing about the prophecy and Sirius' death, he needed a way out fast. And Rowling provided him with one. Ginny. That's the only way to describe his relationship. Even Harry came to his senses and stated it near the end of HBP. "It was like something out of somebody elses life" something more or less along those lines. Sadly, Harry isn't a normal teenager, and he can't just 'escape' whenever he faces a problem. It may distract him for a while, but the real problem never really goes away.

Ginny and the whole H/G relationship was a distraction. But now Harry needs to focus on the task ahead of him and hopefully he won't get er .. too distracted again

-Dominique

Right on, Westerly

H/G does follow logically from the failure of H/C. Ginny is everything he wanted Cho to be: pretty, popular, good at Quiddich, has no real problems, and worships Harry without really challenging him. As soon as Cho exhibited an effort to seek closure and deal with her feelings about Cedric's death (something Harry seems to avoid like the plague), he loses interest. He is too immature and wrapped up with his own problems (which are substantial) to be stable enough to deal with someone else's.

After all the horrible things that happened to Harry in GoF and OotP, I think he was all about escapism in HBP, and Ginny provided him with a perfect distraction. Also, I think the parallels between H/C and H/G show that JKR is deliberately highlighting Harry's tendency toward selfishness and distraction in relationships. This leads me to hope that she is illustrating his growth to the reader by having him end the relationship with Ginny (and showing some insight with the "someone else's life" line), and also perhaps by having Harry find a healthier ship in the final book.

Is H/G really over? Is it part of an elaborate plan to throw off the shippers and show us a deeper view of Harry? Is JKR really smart enough to be doing this? I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

I really do hope that H/G is over. I still don't understand why JKR had to write it in in the first place. I don't care what H/G shippers think, there were NO foreshadowings of a romance between them at all in the previous books. I will NEVER understand that a prepubescent child running after the Hogwarts Express in book 1 symbolized H/G! I will say that there were a few instances where Ginny showed that she was STILL infatuated with Harry (e.g. always being shy and tongue tied around him; sending a valentine to him [we later find out it was from her]), but foreshadowings of a romance? I think not!

I can't help but believe that Ginny has accepted the break up because I think that she has never truly loved the REAL Harry. Naturally, she had a great time snogging with Harry, what teen wouldn't? But, she realizes at the end that 'Just Harry' is a bit too "common" and too "boring" for her. In HBP, JKR wrote a different Ginny. I saw an immature, self-absorbed, and reckless young girl. She probably was relieved that Harry had broken off their relationship. She NEVER once told him she loved him, did she? This bothers me, because if she really did love him for who he is, (i.e. not as the Chosen One), but for the boy that he really is - warts and all, she will have told him that she understood and that she loved him. If I were Harry, I'd think long and hard about her behavior during this scene.

Dominique - the ONLY distraction I hope Harry gets again is one for HERMIONE!

That is so true..and kind of disturbing! I never saw this pairing coming and i dislike it, mainly because i dislike Ginny.

Hello everybody, hope you don't mind newbies.
First post!
Well, I agree a lot of things said in this thread, especially Westerlys comments- well done
The whole H/G relationship, for me, came out of the blue. We all knew that Ginny harboured this little fantasy romance with Harry, yet I never really thought that they would get together in the end. Ginny's character is brought out in HBP strongly, extremely,- like JKR is trying to make a point. She wants the readers to warm to this feisty, gutsy girl. However with her catty remarks, rudeness, and insolence I don't see why we would.

I don't agree with JKR for saying that Ginny is the ideal "woman" for Harry. Well, maybe Harry in HBP as he has undergone a personality change. I think JKR want us to believe that H/G are truly in love. The end conversation where they break up, I have to say, is rather lame. It doesn't portray true love, and at their age I understand why it doesn't. But JKR is trying to make it sound profound and deep.

It does really sound like something out a teenage romance novel, and I know JKR could do better than that.

Also, JKR could have brought across Ginny's character a lot better. Ginny could have been gutsy and feisty, but without the cattiness. I seriously can't believe her actions to Ron; tripping him up to embarrass him...and her catty remark to Hermione and her hexing Smith for 'annoying her!'

I really can't warm to Ginny, and I hope that in her last book, Ginny will not play an important part.

And on the note of the breakup...

If Harry were in love with Ginny... would the break up have taken place at all? When Ron and Hermione (who are the two people Harry cares about MOST in the world) refuse to let him go after Voldemort alone, he doesn't resist there descision. He cares about them, they care about him... he allows them to go. But Ginny... who he is supposedly in love with, can't change his mind. You'd think if he was in love with her, or cared about her the way he cares for Ron and Hermione... he would have accepted her tagging along. Both for emotional comfort and backup... since she is a talented witch. But he didn't. He started out with his reasoning behind it to 'protect' Ginny. But she would have been a valueble asset, and she can look after herself. However, Ron and Hermione get their way.. and he isn't putting them in any less danger than Ginny. My point, in short, being that if he cared for Ginny the way he cares for Ron and Hermione... wouldn't he have realized he wanted her along?

Maybe that's ramblings... I dunno.

And rivendell... I totally agree with the teen romance novel remark... I was little dissapointed in Jo... with the Hqarry/Ginny thing as well and the Ron/Hermione thing (I am an R/Hr but...) I dunno, it felt like everything just exploded in a really overly fluffy corny way.

*high fives* Right on!

Moving right along to something that has bothered me about the H/G relationship for quite some time. Many people state (mostly H/G shippers) that the H/G relationship had things backing it up and did not come out of the blue. Now, if you think the little 'crush' Ginny had on the famous Harry Potter counts as forshadowing .. Yes, I too sort of thought JK would want Harry to get together with Ginny. I wouldn't have minded really, if it had actually been backed up.

And don't even get me started that Harry and Ginny were in love. Just because Ginny had liked Harry for a long time and finally they somehow collided for a brief period of time, it was definatly not love. Ginny wasn't in love with Harry the first day she met him at the train station and she wasn't in love with him the day he broke up with her and vice versa. I don't believe it love at first sight. I believe in lust at first site. There is no way you can fall in love someone just by looking at them. Because we all know that would be shallow, and Ginny isn't shallow now is she ..

If Ginny had really been in love with Harry, she would put up a little bit of a bigger fight near the end of the story. Wouldn't she at least show some emotion? I mean, if someone I was 'madly' in love with, dumped me and then went off to fight the most evil villian on earth, and may not come back ... I would shed more than a few tears I must say. Was Ginny just being strong for Harry? Or just not an actual character and that's why she showed no emotion? And did Harry really leave/dump Ginny behind so she would be safe? Not even a good snog for old times sake as a goodbye thing? Wow, maybe it wasn't the right time. With all those people around .. not that it ever bothered shy!Harry before ..

So what should I say to all of this? Should I be a biased reader and say " I'm chucking out my HP book if H/G get together! I can't stand them!" Followed my excessive exclamation marks and angry smilies. Or should I be a mature shipper about this, care about something other than what ship sails in the end and move on with my life?

What do you guys think?
-Dominique

I agree with all of you ppl!! I mean, if Harry is intressed in Cho, why does he go for Ginny instead of Cho?????? I think that makes no sense!! Ginny is a nice girl, but she really needs to grow up. Cho is okay, on the other hand, but faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrr better than Ginny!!!!

Well, I won't be chucking my book away if, heaven forbid, they do get back together - though I may be sorely tempted. There's only one thing that will truly make me throw my book in a mixture of disbelief and anger and that's if Snape is really guilty, but I'll save that for another thread

To stay on subject, I think the reason she didn't put up much of a fight was because she was probably expecting it not to last. And it would have shown her up to be even more selfish than I already think she is. I mean, saying 'It's for some stupid, noble reason, isn't it?'

Excuse me? Since when has altruism and nobility become "stupid" qualities to possess? Is Ginny really that self-centred that she would seriously expect Harry to walk away from something that is exceptionally important to him just because she flicks her hair at him? Well, yes, would be the short answer to that. Just that one sentence sums Ginny up for me really - she just doesn't understand Harry at all, and she seriously considers herself in love with him? Puh-lease.

It's not even that I prefer Harry with someone else now - I would really much rather he end the series alone, standing at the edge of some deserted clifftop, silhouetted against the moonlight with the ghosts of all the people he's lost drifting around him; a lonely hero who sacrificed everything for the greater good. I would find that far more literary, true and affecting than him dancing off into the sunlight, arm in arm with Ginny, trailing a people-carrier full of kid behind them *vomits* I just think Ginny is nowhere near his equal, and I'm sorry - I do respect Jo a lot, I wouldn't read her books otherwise - but if this was what she was aiming for when she changed Ginny's character, then I'm afraid she's failed.

No, all in all, if Harry can't be with Luna or Hermione or someone with half a decent personality, I'd rather him be alone.

Couldn't agree more!

Here is my nightmare: I am reading the final chapter of book 7. Harry has just defeated Voldemort, and proved that Snape was really evil all along *GASP* The lesson kids? Never trust anyone who isn't 100% super nice and cheerful all the time! If they're ugly and grumpy, they must be no good. Ron and Hermione, after successfully helping Harry save the day, declare their undying love for each other - then spend the next hour arguing over something pointless. The lesson kids? Opposites always attract. If you have a relationship with someone who shares your views and values you as a person, it's too perfect and just plain dull! Keep that person platonic and go for the one that makes you feel like crap all the time - he's the one! And finally, Harry returns to uber-grrrl Ginny - she of the boucing hair and blazing looks. She is super-cool because she got her "rock star" crush and can hex anyone who bugs her! A hero like Harry can't end up with some nerdy know-it-all, or some weirdo. He has to be with someone who really deserves him. The lesson kids? Pretty + Popular = Deserving! Now that Voldy, Snape, and all other bad people are gone, they are free to become One Big Happy Weasley Family! They all join hands around a campfire and sing "Kum By Yah". The End.

I wake up screaming......

ROFLMAO!!! OMG, that is *so* my nightmare too!!! Sorry about sounding a bit like a screaming fangirl there, but it really is the ending I fear above all others. Simply because it would just be so completely and utterly awful - so horrifically disappointing. I can see millions of adult readers out there sitting in wide-eyed astonishment as they wake from this dream and wonder why they've spent so much time reading a re-telling of Snow White or Rapunzel or any number of other fairy stories. I'm sure the hordes of H/G and R/Hr supporters and Snape-haters will be in throes of ecstasy about the whole thing and will spend years to come squeeing about what a wonderful series HP was, but I will most certainly not be amongst them and I'm pretty sure that millions of others won't be either.

What a truly horrific ending to what has been, thus far, a truly special and outstanding series.

Please, Jo...I beg you....please, don't do this to us....please....

*sigh*

I'm sorry if my above post caused problems - that was not my intention al all. I AM aware that not everyone who disagrees with H/G also disagrees with R/Hr. That's why I said it was MY nightmare, not anti-H/G shippers' nightmare. But as my post may have offended some members in this thread, allow me to clarify. My point was that my personal dislike of H/G partially stems from it's inclusion in the OBHWF scenario, and it's tying into what I see as an all too neat-and-tidy ending. For OBHWF to work, H/G and R/Hr have to go together, but I think each of those characters would be better suited with someone else or alone. I also sensed from other posts that there are many people here who agree with me.

Still, looking at my post, I definitely made criticisms of R/Hr that were separate from OBHWF. Despite whether or not I officially broke any rules, that was probably not a good idea. So, I would like to apologize to moonflower8 and any other R/Hr shippers who were offended by my post. While I don't think I officially broke any rules, I was at least insensitive. There is no good place on this forum to vent an opinion about the overall ending (in terms of shipping) without offending someone, so I probably shouldn't have tried. I just saw some like-minded people in the thread and got excited. I hope there are no hard feelings, and that we can be unified by our hatred of H/G.

Apology accepted Elizabeth Bennet.

The reason I dislike Harry/Ginny is primarily because I dislike Ginny.

Secondly, I cannot envisage anyone being worthy and able to reciprocate Harry's love (pre HBP) particularly not Hermione, and definitely not Ginny. I'm rather hoping he ends up alone as opposed to with a lead female character. Ginny's superficial and catty outlook cannot meet Harry's expectations although JKR is forcing it to.

Actually in HBP I think the current Harry almost deserves Ginny but I still dislike this ship as I am hoping that in the next book, Harry makes a grand return to sanity. I'm still hoping.

Quote from MOONFLOWER8:
"Actually in HBP I think the current Harry almost deserves Ginny but I still dislike this ship as I am hoping that in the next book, Harry makes a grand return to sanity. I'm still hoping."

Yeah, it's almost like Harry has been bewitched or given some love potion to have him behave the way he does (so out of character) in HBP!
(gasp!) I wonder who the culprit is? Well, I wouldn't be surprised if Ginny is behind it all. That is IF I even thought Harry was bewitched or under the influence of some love potion. I'm not entirely convinced that he is. I do know this much, IF he isn't under some spell or love potion, then he is going through a bad case of puberty! All those pheromones and out of control hormones running amuck! And, for who? That red-headed little witch with a capital "B"! I'll say no more.

one word to comment on this:
PERFECT
exactly what i was thinking
especially the part about ron and hermione continuing to bicker over something stupid!
and i think i would be deeply disappointed if the end of this series turned out with OBHWF
(and if harry was dreaming all this!)

The reason I don't like the Harry and Ginny as a couple is because I don't like Ginny. Ever since she almost got Harry killed in CoS, something has just made me think bad about her. I know it wasn't her intention to get Harry in any compromising position but I just don't like her. I also think she needs to grow up. Harry needs to like someone who can actually understand everything he's been through and help him through it. I think Ginny like Harry but doesn't realize that he's way more mature than almost any guy his age.

Another reason that I don't like Harry being with Ginny, or anyone else for that matter, is that I think it'll take away from the actual story. I think it would be better if the series ended with Harry in no relationship becuase it would focus on the actual story and not the relationship Harry is in at the moment. I think that the whole series would end better if Harry would just stay out of relationships and focus on getting LV.

I haven't posted here in ages but my dislike of H/G remains.

Has anyone speculated about what her real name--Ginevra--might mean? JKR spends a lot of time picking her names, and Arthur and the Weasleys all have royal names, but why Ginevra for Ginny? According to the HP Lexicon it's the Italian form of Guinevere. Guinevere famously betrayed King Arthur by committing adultery with Lancelot.

So--

Does her name foreshadowing some betrayal by Ginny? JKR uses names to show what will happen in the future. For example, she had the Lupins name their son "Remus" (the Roman baby raised by wolves) long before he was bitten and became a werewolf.

I definitely agree with you about the "stupid noble reason" line. The core of HP is a moral story, the choice between "what is right" and "what is easy." Ginny represents what is easy--which is just a nice way to say what is wrong. She is his "best source of comfort"--easy. She disparages his desire to do the right thing as a "stupid noble reason."

So true, bluestocking! She is the easy, obvious source of comfort and distraction. At the end of Book 5, Harry learns of the prophecy and his destiny with Voldemort. Any 16-year-old boy's first reaction would be denial. Harry wants to be a normal, care-free, superficial teenager, just like his dad was. Ginny is the perfect match for a normal, care-free, superficial Harry.......who doesn't really exist.



Interesting point. I had always feared that Ginevra, being a form of Guinevere, was meant to be foreshadowing romance, as Guinevere is a romantic heroine (and Harry could be seen as Lancelot). However, I had never thought of the betrayal angle before......and I LIKE it! You defintely have a point - JKR does not choose names lightly and there are certainly many other romantic heroines whose name she could have chosen - ones without the association with adultery and betrayal.

Hmmmm........

Hello there,
I'm pretty new here that's why I hope what I do here follows the rules.

I'm probably one of a few who doesn't like Ginny not because of her general characteristic but because JKR isn't writing her very well. If there exist a real life Ginny Weasley we would probably get along very well. I'd say my best female friend comes pretty close to her. It's actually pretty sad IMO that Ginny comes across as that badly written and she is, she really is because we got no idea who she really is.
Perhaps and I'm there pretty certain JKR isn't using the best PoV to write H/G or R/Hr in a way what makes them likeable at least not to me. Just a different PoV and one could have known about Ginny's journey so much more.
But to Ginny itself there are some hints, some is implied about her journey but to me it's not ending in a happy end for H/G. I'll explain this later on.

In PS/SS we read how Ginny reacted on Harry this let assume she must have heard about him. I think a family which stood always against this racist thinking in their world would most likely talk and put the hero on some kind of pedestal before they ever met that guy. That's something people do in case of Music-Stars or Movie-Stars as well. Here however it's some kind of tale nobody saw Harry Potter in the past years.

Well, there he is and Ginny sees him of course she likes to have a good look on him too. A year later in COS we read how she crushed on him, how though? I think her brothers told a lot how it is to know Harry Potter and what happened a year earlier. Suddenly Harry Potter isn't just kind of tale and someone Ginny saw just once but someone very real, a Star or Hero. But she doesn't think he could ever like her and find her that interesting like she found him. Because she is in compare small and plain. She is no hero, not someone who does all this great things.
I think it's rather hard though to be around such a guy, you put upon a very high pedestal and to think at the same time you'll never be good enough that he'll be interested in you. Thus she wrote in that diary, she very sonly discovered what's going on that these attacks on muggleborns are somehow connected to her.

It must have been quite a nasty shock for her that she a daughter of a family who always was against this racist stuff is in something like this involved. Finally Hermione is attacked as well one of Harry's best friends. As he went after Ginny and rescued her I think Ginny even crushed some more on him because he didn't blame her, despite that she caused so much troubles.

By the time of GoF Ginny suffered already quite a long time an unfulfilled crush or love for Harry. He still got that hero kind of air probably each year a bit more and he still on that pedestal. Added to this Ginny learns that Harry is interested in Cho but not in her. Ginny talks with Hermione about Harry and I think it's pretty obvious that Ginny is everything but perfectly happy. She should give it a rest and move on, that's at least Hermione's advice.

Easier said than done. I think Ginny really tried that by dating Michael Corner, she probably thought he was pretty nice etc. By OotP and I'm still convinced that Ginny was partly angry with Harry or got a kind of grudge with him because she still fancied him, he still had her heart even after all this years and even though she tried to move on.

Sometimes through OotP she must have IMO decided to get his attention even more by dating Dean. Yeah, I do think she didn't really like Dean but just used him to get Harry. But this doesn't make her any worst than Hermione or any other girl. She had a motive too she wasn't really happy and neither was Harry. HBP showed that Harry suddenly showed interest in her, he fell for her and they got together. There exactly ends my little Ginny tale though because either she finally got her dream, that guy she always wanted or she partly realised that he isn't what she always thought he was.

If H/G is really the final pairing I think I'll have a little grudge with JKR as well because she missed to bring Ginny that close. She failed to present her struggling, her unhappiness and her hopes. But I think and I hope it's not. Not because Ginny isn't good enough for Harry but much more because I think Harry isn't the right guy for her.

Hiya FlyingPhoenix, and welcome to the forums! Don't worry, you're doing great so far!

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If you think about it, every positive thing Harry thinks about Ginny in the break-up scene actually tells you that she is "wrong" for him. I wrong a long post months ago on this thread about how Ginny brings out the worst in Harry (especially in the Sectumsempra chapter), how she is BAD for him, brings him down, so I won't repeat that. But it's not just a case where she is a morally neutral character, neither good nor bad.


The Weasleys--Arthur and the kids--almost all have royal names: William, Charles, Frederick, George. Percy I guess comes from Perceval, one of King Arthur's knights; not sure about Ron. So where does Ginevra fit into all that? It's one of JKR's oddball names--like Albus or Rubeus or Remus or Hermione--a name that "types" the character for the reader.

But how could it fit? Ginny's not married. And she had broken up with Dean before she started dating Harry, so no betrayal there. And now she and Harry have broken up so if she starts dating again, not a betrayal. Could it be something far worse? We know we're going to see Ginny being even more of a "gifted witch" in Book 7: something tells me that's not going to be a good thing.