On the topic of H/Hr D/E...

I too, like many H/Hr shippers *waves to any reading this* venture out into the other forums. I don't really like the Venom threads, but I did however recently visit the H/Hr thread. They all put up a good fight saying they read the books and saw H/Hr potential before Dan and Emma even "existed." Which may be very true for some. Trying to say this without poking at the shippers....I do believe that the H/Hr ship does have some backing from Dan and Emma, but not complete support from it. Honestly, up until book five, I still thought H/Hr had a chance. Certainly not as large as the ships I favor, but it still was in the running. As far as what I see though, I don't think it is very possible after book 6. I think book 6 was heavy on romance and telling it how it was going to be, and I think how it seemed in the books is exactly how its going to be.

Everyone is right, Dan and Emma are not Harry and Hermione. H/Hr has its own support without D/E, but it still has some support in some places because of D/E. But what ship doesn't? I bet R/Hr has the same thing with Rupert and Emma, and D/Hr may have also been fueled by Tom and Emma. I think we all need to remember that the movies and books are separate. But there is still some support from some who may not be able to separate the two. I don't know anyone personally, but it is there.

And this goes out to everyone reading this thread, as a reminder, please keep the topic on the ship, NOT the shippers.

Sorry Droobles, my bad . I get a little carried away sometimes .

Anyway, looking back H/Hr could have been seen as a possibilty before HBP but I never saw it, I don't know if this is because I was the same age of the characters when the first book came out and didn't pick up on early stuff because I was young and hadn't experienced it myself. I read the later books in a slightly more detached way because I'm older now and have lived through being 15/16 and picked up on subtler things. Did I miss them in the earlier books or were they not there? Anyone else know where I'm coming from?

Just the Droobles, I totally agree. I never ever dismissed H/Hr completley till HBP. I considered it a posable. And it seemed to me what created that was OotP and the movie PoA.
I honestly think that H/Hr shippers being created will driddle quite quickly. Because pick up the books back to back, one has no time to over-anaylize every exchange between the two, and if they do they see there mistake when they read HBP. But not so easy without that nail in coffin. I think that the most H/Hr shippers came about in that period after OotP and the movie PoA, and then continued to fester. Because in OotP we see a lot of Hermione/Harryness to the hug when they see eachother, Cho's jealousy, Harry's reaction to the possiabilty that she might be dead, Hermione leaving her parents to go to Grimauld place during Chirstmas, her frown at the kiss between him and Cho, Hermione holding him tightly well Grawp was trying to get at them ect, ect, ect. I could go on, but I think you get the idea. In PoA Hermione hands him his glasses after the dementor attack, she leads him away from Malfoy, she sits next to him when they talk about Hagrid, watch Ron going up to the boggart quiet they look close, Hermione gives him a sad little way when he can't go to Hogsmead, Hermione looks at Harry when we find out Sirius Black has come in the castle, Hermione's reaction when he falls from his brom, ect. ect. ect. look at everything I just thought of, none of this including anything from the time-turner sceen. So Dan and Emma I believe did have a big part in making H/Hr fandom much bigger. But a person who knows the truth can just shurg this off. Because Hermione and Harry could be a romactic pair if only they sexually desired one another, but they don't so there you are.

good post, Amyrat...

Yes it's true, not all of the H/Hr shipping came from the movies, some of it is based on the books. But what we intend to say here is that it did grow a lot thanks to D/E interactions.

I've said it: I also was very nervous when HBP came out, because even though R/Hr was a lot more evident (and probable) to me, I still couldn't discard an H/Hr surprise.

I just can't deny there are some subtle hints about Harry and Hermione's love, but now, after HBP, I've come up with the conclusion that that love is purely platonic (In words of JKR).

There are so many differences between Hermione's relationship with Ron and with Harry... but there were, indeed, hints that could've supported both pairings.

I think there was just two thing that set them apart: awkwardness and jaleousy.

Harry and Hermione never feel jaleous about each other, and they're never awkward: they hug, she can kiss him (on the cheek) without any problem. While Ron gets jalous even of Harry! and she hesitates a lot when it comes to kiss or hug him...

It is not that she doesn't like him, on the contrary, she's afraid of letting everyone (especially him) realize how much she does like him. And viceversa.

Did I make sense there?

[claudia]

Hermione didn't kiss Harry because we would've known about it. The books are from Harry's view and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't leave that out if it had happened. And JKR said that Cho was Harry's first kiss, so at that point hermione wouldn't know anyway because Cho was his first kiss. I think she simply stated that because she knew that it was Cho just being her normal Human Hosepipe self.
And I don't think that shows Hermione liking Harry much at all. She easily talks about this subject, so it doesn't bother her that Cho and Harry kissed. If she liked him it would bother her. And as smee said, she isn't that great at hiding her emotions because look what happened in HBP. I think she would've been storming out of there or something. Course she was writing a big essay to Viktor...perhaps she was busy thinking of him. Which come to think of it is more evidence messing up this ship because Harry would've had some dislike toward Viktor if he liked Hermione. Never saw a bit of that, did we?

*worried*
I've been following the R/Hr H/G vs H/Hr Thread in the great hall (I can't post; I'm not allowed yet ) and there's some really good arguments for why Harry and Hermione are all right for each other and why there's still a chance H/Hr could happen despite what JKs said in her interviews. It's all very worrying. I was wondering; what are your reasons for being against H/Hr; is it because you ship R/Hr (which I do) or because H/Hr simply feels wrong (my main reason) or something else?

To me, Harry/Hermione just doesn't exist. They get along so well because they are best friends. Why does that mean they have to get together? We would've seen the tension between them. Awkward moments and looks and stuff. You don't see anything that points to a relationship. Sure they get along, but so what? Harry gets along with Luna. Harry gets along with Ginny. Harry gets along with a lot of other girls. But Hermione 'understands' him. Well of course she would, she's spent the past six years with him. And girls are more in touch with emotions and feelings so she would be very good at understanding him. Ron on the other hand is a male, and so is Harry. You don't see the same emotional thickness in Harry and Ron as you see in Hermione.

And what about all the things in the books? That is what you have to keep in mind. Who was Hermione crying on at the funeral? Who did Hermione blush at when they said "I love you" in a not-serious tone of voice? Who does Hermione send birds at for having a girlfriend? The feelings aren't all from Ron, they come both ways. MAny good thoughts are placed for H/Hr, but I don't see their relationship for anything other than what it is. Which is best friends. Best friends understand each other. That's why they're best friends. Don't forget that this is a trio, as well, not Harry and Ron and Harry and Hermione. They are all best friends. That includes Ron and Hermione.

And it's okay for you to worry, smee. But I wouldn't.

Argh. But what if it's all just misdirection! JKs might just be fooling us. Friends develop feelings after there being nothing there before, it happens all the time in real life! , argh, not enough emoticons to express all the worry!

If not misdirection, it is education:
- Dont' get too fast to assumption, that if someone is kind and close to you, he/she is interested romantically to you.
- There are friends and there is the friend. Sometimes it's not easy to know who will be which one, but there are always hints to follow.
- If one is trying to be close to you, it's possible that he/she is after your best friend, not you.
- etc.

Hermione has read about Harry Potter from the books, so it's normal that she paid attention to him once she knew him. However, before knowing Harry's name, Hermione's focus on the first train ride to Hogwarts was solely to Ron Weasley.
Hermione was not interested in Harry's family. She paid close attention to Ron's household, and even became a Weasley in Book 5.

I think the hints are not so subtle as I used to believe. Once the doubt is gone, the traces of R/Hr romance build-up from Book 1 to 6 are getting obvious, whereas all H/Hr interactions can only be seen as close friendship.

Before I got sucked into the dark world of HP forums and had only read the books it never occured to me that there were people who thought Harry and Hermione were viable as a couple and at first it shocked me but now I've looked into it a bit more I understand where it came from (though I still don't agree with it, or see any of the 'clues' as them being anything but friends) and I think 'corny' is a good word for it. The hero and heroine? far too over done

Claudia, many people are getting used to see a 2-hour movie. In that short period of time, if there is a hero and a heroine and sidekicks, the hero will get the heroine or vice versa. However, Harry Potter movies are not just 2 hours. It will be 14 hours in total. Thus, what you see in the first 4 hours (2 films) will not necessarily determine the last 4 hours. In the last 2 films, I'm sure there will be more Harry and Ginny, as well as Ron and Hermione (starting at the end of movie 2, actually).

We just have to realize that Jo Rowling never ever wrote anything romantic between Harry and Hermione. I believe all shippers agree with this. What's left is just hope. Hope that in book 7 something will spark between them.
The more we go into the books and movies, the less likely it is.
Emma Watson expects more Ron and Hermoine in movie 5. We know there will be even more in movie 6. Dan is concentrating on kissing Kathy in movie 5 and then Bonnie in movie 6. Lucky him! (Well, he IS the main character) If the screenwriter is nice, Emma should get a chance to kiss Rupert on the cheek, true to the book.

Anyway, Smee, I have seen people convinced that Hermione will end up with Draco, Snape, Lupin, Neville etc., so her ending up with Harry may not be too surprising. We know some people are quick to assume if a boy hangs around with a girl, they are romantically related. The fact is the girl is not after that boy, but the other boy.
In book 2, meeting at the Diagon Alley, with whom did Hermione make an appointment? Ron! Harry only came along with Ron and his family.
Thus, Hermione's parents didn't pay much attention to Harry, but to Ron and his parents. That's why Ron said to Hermione to wait, while he was going into the Bank. Her parents expected Ron to accompany Hermione, so Ron had to be responsible to say something when he needed to leave her for a while.
In book 3, again meeting at the Diagon Alley. Again, Hermione made appointment with Ron. This time, her parents even allowed her to stay for one night with Ron's family. Did her parents know Harry also be there? Maybe, but clearly that's not why they allowed Hermione to sleep over.
In book 4, the invitation to see Quidditch World Cup came from Ron, so Hermione stayed in the Burrow for several weeks. She managed even to come ahead of Harry by one day. When she saw Harry, she only offered a friendly smile, and then be busy with Molly and Ginny. Apparently Hermione strategically used the chance to find allies for her future goal (Ron!)
In book 5, again Hermione spent time with Ron, quite happily (from her and Ron's letters to Harry). She only concerned that Harry should be notified about what's going on, but she didn't seem eager to see Harry as soon as possible. When Harry finally appeared, she naturally formed a coalition with Ron to face Harry's anger.
In book 6, it should be natural to see Hermione again ahead of Harry in the Burrow. Being a woman, she knows Ron will focus more on Harry when Harry came. So if she wants to get Ron's undivided attention, she had to be with him before Harry arrived. Clever girl, that Hermione.

With all that information, how could we expect Hermione to change her attention to a boy other than Ron with one book to go? and let go all her efforts for 5 consecutive years (making allies with the sister and the mother, learning how to make family sweaters, starting with socks and hats, peeking at family recipes, etc.)? I don't have a doubt that Hermione will still regard Harry as her very best friend (brother-in-law sounds to official), but to have romantic feeling to him? I don't see any indications in all 6 books.

NO
Harry and Hermione cannot get together because
Ginny Harry
and
Ron Hermione
lol other than that I ahve no objections..

I hate when people say H/Hr it gets me sooooo annoyed because it is obvious Ron and Hermione like eachother not Harry and Hermione!!!!!!!

Hey muggleview, some really good points there. Good reading between the lines! I'm re-reading at the moment and noticed most of the things you mentioned. Stuff where we don't see first hand because Harry isn't there but Ron and Hermione are clearly spending lots of time together. It's times like those I'm glad I have a good imagination .

hiya muggy! *waves* Nice of you to drop by

As usual, I loved the points you exposed in your post. I'd love to rave about how sweet is the relationship between Ron and Hermy, but I'm afraid I'd be turning this into a R/Hr supporter thread instead of the H/Hr Venom thread that it is.

Anyhoo... I've been thinking about this ship and even though there *are* some subtle hints they are not determinant. The "romantic attraction" between Harry and Hermione could probably be spotted if you look very very closely at them, and only if you are ready to spot any and every little hint.
Oh man! I think I've missed it... why? because there isn't romantic attraction, that's why!

The more I try to 'convince' myself that this ship is still viable, the more I love to be a R/Hr... You're probably wondering why on Earth do I try to convince myself... well, I'd like to be prepared for *anything*. From 'x' character's death to 'y' character pairing with 'w'.

I know our dear Jo is a little box full of surprises and she could do any unexpected twist if she wants to. But Harry/Hermione just can't happen. It'd be way too complicated, not to mention again the fact that hero/heroine is faaaar too overdone.

I said it before, I could have believed it before HBP, but now it just doesn't seem close to possiible.

Oh, well... forget all about that... H/Hr IS possible...
in fannon

Nice to see you still sharp and strong, Mxnhpfreak (waving back)
Yeah, I have tried to be careful only to compare the cases relevant to H/Hr improbable relationship. We have seen how Hermione has all the motives and intention to get a boy and the boy is definitely not Harry Potter.
That should be okay for this Venom thread.

My dear, sweet, Muggy it is zero, not close to zero is.
I am currently rereading HBp for the forth time and I honestly think that if you think H/Hr are still a possiable couple you're (I'm using this word with ephamis) deluded. When Harry thought that Ron and Hermione's relationship "would happen sooner or later" in their Herbology class, his acknowlegment and completely non-jealous state of mind should tip the readed off that Harry has needed been romanticlly interested in Hermione. Why would Ron be so angry when he found out Hermione kissed Krum if he didn't hope to make her his own love? Why would Hermione cry because of Ron's actions if she didn't love him? Jk has said "It's Ron and Hermione." If I was Hermione and in love with Harry, I'd just ingorne Ron completely, not give him a moments thought and use Harry's time that use to have Ron in it to try and ask Harry out. The way the pair of them act reminds me of me and my friend Joe, I give him advince, I nag him to do his homework and I get mad or annoyed at him when he ingornes me. But the image of kissing him or other wise freaks me out quite a lot ::shudder::. I do love him, want him in my life past high school, but we are just friends.
It's so good to see you posting Muggy:).

Thanks God you posted! I was starting to get hipnotized by a very admirable and hopeful H/Hr (TerranOvermind) and might have been very close to conversion... but you guys and your venom rescued me!
(btw I was just kidding... it's too late for me to convert, lol )

So I do know how to trigger a chuckle, muggy! Well, that's something good, I guess We need humor once in a while (if possible, most of the time).

Which leads me to: how many humorous moments have been between Harry and Hermione? I mean, while Ron's not there.
They don't have too many laughing moments, do they? I think laughter is a very important part of life and, of course, of relationships.

Yes, muggy, you're right, if Harry married Hermione, it would be as though he has married a dictionary

And Amyrat, you're right, it is zero... although... remember, we're talking about JKR, the mistress of the surprises and unexpected twists! How about we give those a probability of 0.0001% just in case, you know? ( ) I just said that for the dead people coming back... H/Hr IS probability zero.

Oh, btw, Terran, if you read this, I admire you, you do know how to put a fight! I love H/Hr who won't give up and try to prove they're right, but they never become rude or mean. Three cheers for the good H/Hr shippers!

*hisses in quite an an uncontrolled manner*

Amyrat, after all the time you've been here, you should know better. Venom thread or not, you call any H/Hr's deluded, you're risking my wrath. You know that. You know I have absolutely zero sense of humour about it and you know what I'll do.

You're lucky I'm in a generous mood because if I'd been having a bad day, that little quip would have earned you an official. You should know better. Consider this a poke in the strongest possible terms.

Let me remind everyone posting here of the purpose of the venom thread.

It is to discuss why H/Hr isn't plausible - NOT to bash the the people who ship it and NOT to say why you prefer another ship anyway.

Go back and read the rules for the venom thread, ALL OF YOU.

I'm annoyed now...not a good thing.

I'm locking this thread for seven days. The next time I have to lock it, it stays locked. For good.

Learn the lesson well, people.

EDIT : BTW, I think the word you're looking for is 'emphasis', Amyrat.

Hi everyone, it has been a week and I'm opening this thread up so you all can discuss why Harry/Hermione may not be compatible according to the fabric of their characters and canonical history. Please take Michelle Dessler's warning seriously because we will close this thread for good if the Venom Rules are broken again; it would be a shame for VTM to ruin the opportunities the Venom threads provide folks.

Now, we know the drill and enjoy Venom Harry/Hermione.

Yeah, in addition to Justin's warning, I'm just reiterating that there is absolutely zero tolerance not just in this thread, but on this forum, for any bashing of the people who support ships whatsoever.

This was a generic punishment, but in the future, anyone caught bad-mouthing, belittling, or leaving vague digs at H/Hr's or any other ship supporters for that matter will be met with an official warning. You all know the score, you know what's allowed and what isn't, so don't push the issue. And I'm that vindictive to take the R/Hr and H/G threads off you too if you abuse this one.

Remember, three officials, and you can wave goodbye to the forums and you can rant and rave about it all you want.

I'm warning everyone - be VERY careful in here. As Justin said, if this needs to be locked again, it stays locked for good.

oh my!

We've been warned!

Oh guys, my dear ship-mates... we need to be careful. Remember, it's not only the Venom Thread that would be closed should either of us keep bashing H/Hr shippers instead of just the ship.
Louise, I'm afraid, is being very serious about closing H/Hr and H/G threads as well
Please be careful!

I have a new question for you, I have no idea if it has been asked previously, but here I come:

Seeing as you don't like Hermione as Harry's girl, who would you rather see Harry with? Luna? back with Cho? Lavender? any Patil? Hannah Abbot? Susan Bones? a new character? and why? (You can say Ginny, but you have to picl another girl as well)

Ok, that's it. See you later

To be completely honest, I could care less who Harry ends up with. To me, his new love interest is Voldemort. That's who I want to see him with.

But to answer your question correctly, I would say that I would be fine with Ginny or Luna. I only lean more toward Ginny because I do like her and she is a Weasley and I want to see where their relationship goes before I throw it out. Luna is also good too because I really like her and she just has this way that makes people think.

But I would just never be able to accept him with Hermione. Them together is just I still only see them as friends as much as I have read other people's points of view. Plus, I do have to admit Ron is my favorite character, and since I think he is going to erm... in the next book, I want to see him with the one he really cares for. So Hermione can't be with both of them. But I certainly don't want her to run after Harry if Ron does... Ok. I'm all done.

Ron and Hermione?
Harry and Hermione?
Harry and Ginny/Luna?

That's what happens when you don't come into the forum for a while.
Droobles says exactly what you would have said.
Dam you Droobles *shakes fist*

I would just like to add though that I'd probably hurl then throw out my book (mainly because it would have sick all over it ) if Harry got back together with Cho. That's just all kinds of wrong. Similar reaction for Lavender.

Hiya smee! welcome back to the ships threads
and Joy, welcome, too

My answer to that question would be:
I would never, never be able to look again at any Harry Potter book or movie (or actually anything) if Harry ends up with Cho... that's just wrong... maybe even worse than H/Hr *ewww...*
Lavender would just be weird, you just can date your best mate's first girlfriend... that would be odd... The Patil twins, well I don't think they're too happy after the Yule Ball fiasco.
A new character would have been an original and maybe even funny twist if it had happened in HBP or before... but in only one book to introduce a character, make her likeable, make Harry fall in love with her and all that stuff would be madness, very complicated.
Luna would be tolerable, I think she's quite nice... And I will definitely prefer Harry to be with her rather than with Hermy (nothing personal, I like her a lot... but she's Ron's ok? ).

But of course, as you all know, I am a *huge* H/G shippers so my first choice would obviously be Ginny

And Joy... I'm sorry to say that what Droobs meant was... er... yes... what you were thinking. (I will only say it once: death a.k.a. 'the unspeakable' )

*GASP!!!*
*falls out of chair*

You said the terrible word!!!



I found something Jo said about her...*ahem*...and she says she understand why people think that. But that's off topic and I don't know what happened to the Who do you think will ***? Thread....


You know, I have come to realize upon readin posts that Hermione's bond with Harry is not Sisterly with Harry at all. Any sister I know certainly wouldn't be all like No! you can't do that!! I mean, just look at the Weasley kids (except Percy). They support getting into trouble every once in a while. So, no, there relationship isn't brotherly/sisterly. It's motherly/son-ly. And mothers and sons just don't work together.

I don't think a new character would be good. People are already mad enough that Jo supposed went crazy on developing Ginny in HBP and that would make people even more mad. But I still don't see a problem with Ginny, though I only read the HBP once, and I am currently trekking through OotP right now, so...

I like Luna, so it wouldn't be bad to see her with Harry either, I just don't want Hermione with him, youknowwhatI'msayin?

I used to not like Luna very much, because she was to werid and kind of annoyed me. Now, to quote Ron "she's grown on me." But Harry has made clear his feelings. That he has romantic intentions form Ginny, and Ginny alone. Hermione even "beamed" at the situation, making clear her support of the pairing. Ah, sweet cannon, how you serve me well.

I wish no one to speak of Ron...er...that thing... at all, ever again. It is not wise to speak of such things and tempt fate.

But anyway, back to Harry and Hermione being so entirely and completely wrong for each other . Good point about the mother/son relationship there Droobles. I mean, lets face it, this is no greek tragedy; no one wants to see Ron with Mrs Weasley and it follows that no one should want to see Harry and Hermy together .

I agree that Luna has grown on me too. I really didn't like her to begin with, but then, it does usually take a while for people to grow on me. I was a bit, 'hey who's this random who's just popped up from nowhere alongside all these guys I've been reading about for like 5 years'. It's a bit like some new person turning up and making friends with all your friends.
But I've decided she's OK and if the worst happens to Ginny she's not a bad second choice

Just got off another discussion round with some new readers. Yes, they have watched all movies, but they read probably at the same speed as Jo wrote the books. However, they finally finished.
This is what they got:
Interestingly, they seemed to get the feeling that Hermione was not really helping Harry only. First, she helped herself (to get points for Gryffindor). Second, she wanted to prevent Harry from forfeiting the points. Then, as she grew fond of Ron, she used her ability to tag along with the boys. She helped Harry sincerely, but the other motive was so that she would be included to form a trio. Hermione can be comfortable near Harry, because she felt Harry didn't have any romantic intention to her. Being in the trio, Hermione can be close to Ron. I learned one little thing: Hermione could disappear from Harry's radar for a while and when they met, Hermione didn't ask "Where were you?" and Harry didn't bother to ask the same thing to her (Harry looked for Hermione in Book 6 because he saw Ron with Lavender and understood that Hermione must be sad). However, when Ron's was not seen, Harry heard Hermione asked many times: "Have you seen Ron?" just when Hermione was not there with them, Ron was restless about her whereabouts.
Can't we see who is missing whom?

Now that more cards were laid off on the table, it's much easier to see that Harry-Hermione romantic relationship didn't exist. Six books and zero romantic gestures. Can it be in book 7? Anything is possible, but without any build-up? so un-J.K.Rowling!

Oh my! whatever happened to this place??

Where are the avatars? and the siggys? **

This is unbelievable... I leave for 25 days and Veritaserum Forums changed completely! lol, I'm just kidding... I can't make too many comments about this, because I hadn't been on for a while... I feel like a newbie again

I just hope this change is for the best... but any ways, back to the point:

Muggy, Droobs, Smee... I missed you... and I also missed your great contributions to this and some other ship threads...
Good points there, Muggy: I hadn't realized of that... Hermy's always worried about Ron's location and whenever he's not there, she tries to find out where he is. And Ron also has a special Hermione-radar... he always wants to know where she is. And Harry? he does care about Hermione, but he doesn't feel the need to know each one of her steps and viceversa...

I wish one of us could come up with a good question to discuss in here... for all the time I left this thread was sadly sleeping... or sort of, anyways...

**EDIT: never mind... now I see the avatars... I guess they didn't show up because I was not logged in...

Harry and Hermione are too much like brother and sister to have any kind of romantic interest in each other. JKR has dropped so many hints that their relationship will continue to be that way. It is obvious that Harry and Ginny are meant for each other, and Ron and Hermione are the same. There is no future for H/Hr.

aggreed!! they can hug eachother, Ron and Hermione wont go near eachother!!

Hmm....hmm...

I'm trying to think of a question here. Why can we not keep a conversation going but all the other shipping threads can?? Is it because we've already discussed all of our anvil-sized hints?? GaaH!!!

Why can't Harry and Hermione work? Well, we've gone over several things, but unless we want to dig all those back up...
There is some argument for H/Hr based on how both Ron and Hermione act with Harry. For example, Hermione seems to understand Harry better, by helping him with Cho and guiding him through tasks. Ron, on the flipside, seems to laugh at his first kiss, and just generally agree with what he says. Personally, I believe the difference is because Ron is male and Hermione is female. Of course Hermione is going to know more about how Cho is feeling and how Harry might be feeling. Girls are supposed to be in touch with emotions. But is that really a good enough reason to give Harry and Hermione a relationship? Did that make any sense?

Another backing for this couple is they don't argue. I say so what, but what is your take? Is there reasonable grounds for two teenagers to date just because they don't fight? Is it wrong for two teenagers such as Ron and Hermione not to be together because they disagree so often?

And how bout that kiss Hermione gave harry in the fourth book? What was up with that? Any thoughts? Ron got one too, but why on earth did she give Harry one? Is that grounds for a relationship?

And the movies...those blasted movies...can we rely on them? With Hermione kissing Harry's head and them hugging and them holding hands and blahblahblah? (I still think that was all Dan/Emma, but that argument hit kind of a sore spot...)

Any thoughts now?

I apologize for posting in the Venom thread, but I felt this point really needed an answer. Harry and Hermione DO argue on several occasions. Just a few examples:

--When Hermione got Harry’s new Firebolt confiscated for inspection.

--When Harry showed teenage angst at 12 Grimmauld Place at the beginning of OotP.

--When Harry wanted to go to the Ministry to save Sirius.

--Whenever Harry used the Half-Blood Prince’s potions book.

--When Hermione tried to convince Harry to teach DADA.

--Whenever Harry procrastinated in figuring out how to deal with the Triwizard tasks.


…and so on. The difference is that H/Hr arguments are “constructive”, not “destructive”. Notice how in every instance listed, the argument is over Harry’s well-being (i.e. important and critical issues, not petty ones), and they all result in making Harry a better person which ultimately strengthens the bond of friendship between H/Hr.

And now you may return to your regularly scheduled H/Hr bashing…

MOD EDIT : Please read my post at the end of this thread, Terran.

well, ahm... i never really thought about harry and hermione being a couple, it's just too ridiculous (or at least i think so...)
didn't jo say something in an interview...about h/hr, that it's obvious they will never be a couple, or something like that...?
i dunno... i think harry and hermione just don't love each other and i don't think they ever will, they have too much in common and i think a perfect couple would be one where they can help each other and together be something like perfect...
anyways, harry never showed such feelings to hermione. and they are nothing more than friends!

You shouldn't be posting in here really...but I will respond anyway, without turnging this into a debate, because that is one thing it is definitely not.

Those fights can be as constructive as they want to be, but I will take your words exactly how you wrote them and agree with you. It will bond the friendship between Harry and Hermione. Not the relationship. Because there isn't one!

That really wasn't directed at Hermione. Harry was just yelling in general. Sort of at both Ron and Hermione. It wasn't a fight between the two, it was just Harry yelling. Because that's how Harry is. And that was destructive because Hermione started to cry.
That wasn't really one either. She was just trying to make a point that he likes to play hero. She was suggesting Voldemort could've been using him. We saw his true emotions toward her in his head because it is from his point of view, but there was never a fight there.
These aren't arguments. One thing that Hermione is good at is being persistent. She likes to bug Harry about stuff, but it hasn't ever really resulted in a fight. These aren't fights. They are just Hermione always proving Harry wrong. Harry likes to be right, so he's going to be annoyed, but he never flames up at Hermione, so it isn't really a fight.

I think that all of the disagreements between Ron and Hermione have ultimately led them to be a bit closer and they are gradually taking steps to reaching a better relationship. One thing they learned is in HBP when Hermione was angry at Ron and then Ron got poisoned. Hermione seemed to realize that a person you care about can be snatched away from you quicker than you may realize. She was very angry at him(more jealous than anything) but she learned it isn't good to stay mad forever and that people sometimes need to be fogiven and she did that. She took that necessary step to strengthen their bond. Ron also may have realized in HBP that he didn't need a relationship like his and Lavender's. He learned that their were definitely more important things than just a physical relationship and he learned where just doing that can get him. He took Hermione for granted and I think he realizes that now.

All arguments are contrusctive. A person learns from everything they do. Ron and Hermione's arguments have to be constructive or else they would've lost contact a long time ago. Harry and Hermione fights are completely different. It is basically Hermione going by what she wants for Harry and then Harry getting all annoyed because he knows she's right. He learns too, but their fights are different than Ron and Hermione's.

There was no jealousy from Hermione toward any of the girls Harry has liked, and Hermione is a jealous person, as we learned in HBP. She also didn't like Luna intruding in on her space in OotP. Up until that point, she had been the only female, besides Ginny, who was Ron's sister, so she wasn't a big deal anyway. We would've seen some tension from Hermione when Cho was brought up or maybe she would've looked away when Harry and Ginny kissed. If Hermione liked Harry, she would not be happy watching him with other people, and I know that because I am just as old as she is. If Hermione had an ounce of love for Harry, we would've seen it by now. So H/Hr is just...a no go.

This is NOT a debate thread. I fail to see how much clearer I can possibly make this and I have to say that I do expect better from members of the Duelling Club.

Terran, you post in this thread again, regardless of reason, and I will evict you from the Duelling Club. Moreover, I will place you on official warning because you should know better. To know the rules and flaunt them anyway is NOT acceptable and I WILL NOT TOLERATE IT. I hope that is perfectly clear.

People, don't respond - it turns into arguments which escalate. Just report the post and leave it at that.

I've warned this thread more than once before. If you people want to lose ALL the venom threads, then by all means, continue to ignore me.

Then you can deal with the consequences.

Hello, hope you don't mind very new newbies on here!
Um, well I think the whole H/Hr thing is rather ridiculous. Hr/Ron clearly have been building up this good, strong romance right from the very beginning.

Harry and Hermione are very close FRIENDS. I wouldn't bear to read HP if H/Hr were together. I can't exactly pinpoint why, well actually I can a bit. They're personalities clash. Hermione gets irritated with Ron, yet they are still appreciative of eachother. Hermione and Harry don't argue so much, but discuss things that FRIENDS discuss.


I think I have made it very clear that I am not fond of harry/hermione ship! It's wrong!

I just cannot understand the H/Hr ship and never want to. JKR herself has made it extremely clear, beyond crystal clear that their friendship is merely platonic and I have never seen otherwise.

I see them as having a brother,sister relationship and 100% believe that it will continue to be this way to the very end.

Well, it's like the "they're in purgatory" theory for Lost. Lindelof, one of the creaters, stated quite clearly that their is another explanation for the island's craziness. But people keep looking for clues to that theory. Sigh. But I think that H/Hr makes more sense than the purgatory theory. But that's a rant for a differnt set of boards.
Anyway, I think that I can understand H/Hr relationship pretty good because I have a Harry and Hermione-like relationship with a friend of mine. He was acting really werid one day and I knew he was differnt somehow, he kept claiming there was nothing differnt about him, only to admit a few days later that he was, he just didn't know it.
I have no romantic interest in him at all, or him me. I think that it's possiable to have a deep conection with someone who isn't your romantic partner, because that's what I have with my friend. Harry and Hermione have that, there's no questioning it. That they love eachother, that they're loyal to eachother, that they'd do what ever it takes to help the other. The differnece between Harry and Ron to Hermione is the zsa zsa zue. Hermione is sexaully attracked to Ron, but not Harry.
If she was, then you'd have a triangleor she'd be with Harry, but she's not, so there we are.

^I see what you're getting at. And that's the thing that frustrates me about the whole H/Hr idea... it IS possible to have a deep relationship with someone of the opposite gender and not be romantically involved with them. I see Hermione much more as Harry's mother or sister like figure. She is one of the few conatants in his life, and honestly, I think a romance would complicate the great thing they have. Furthermore... let's be honest. Hermione isn't Harry's type. We've been in Harry's head for the past six books, and I, for one think we've been given a pretty clear picture of the way his mind works... think about the girls he's been interested in... then think about Hermione. For me, he just doesn't feel that way about Hermione, simple as that.

To go further, I don't think Harry and Hermione are looking for the same thing in a relationship, and I honestly don't think Harry's ready for a relationship comittment. For Harry, it seems, girls are a backburner. Ultimately what's more imporatant to him are family-reminiscent relationships. Brothers, sisters, mothers fathers. Harry could have any girls he wants, realistically... I mean, he's Harry Potter... but what he can't have at the snap of a finger is family. And I think that, above all else, is what Harry craves. So going with that... the Weasley's are like Harry's family... as well as Hermione who is often grouped with the Weasley family. In his "family" Harry has comfort, and constant, while his romatic relationships have been turbulant.

Anyhoo, my point, is that Hary sees Hermione as family... a relationship (based on what's gone in in his previous ones) would screw that up. He cares about her.. but he's not into her like that, and that's ok!

Hello, Ellen. Still going strong! Yeah, you pointed out correctly. Hermione is sexually attracted to Ron since the beginning. Harry happened to be Ron's best friend, so he was almost always with Ron. Hermione wanted to be with Ron all the time, and with Harry always there, it can easily be translated Hermione was there for Harry. However, everytime the three met, most of the conversations were dominated by Ron and Hermione. Harry was often treated as a wall decorator or, for our purpose, tape recorder. As we always see everything through Harry, it's easy to see if Hermione flirted with Harry, even if Harry didn't get it yet. But we saw zero.
Everytime Ron was absent and Hermione had to accompany Harry, we always see how she kept a distance. In Book 1, instead of insisting to accompany Harry to death (as a lover would do), Hermione was okay to go back to tend Ron, while Harry had to face great danger ahead alone (in the Potion room). In Book 3, while Ron was at hospital, Harry and Hermione waited with Buckbeak for the time. Hermione was okay to be left alone while Harry was exploring. She must have thinking about someone else at that time. In Book 5, Hermione had been asking about Ron so many times, when she was alone with Harry. She could have enjoyed finally being alone with Harry, if she did have a little bit of feeling for him. However, she was more worried not to see Ron.
To support Pallas' good points, in Book 5 there were two occassions where the book (based on Harry's point-of-view) blended Hermione together with the family as "the Weasleys". That happened just after Arthur was back to Grimmauld Place from hospital. No hard feeling. No jealousy, but a clear approval. Harry saw Hermione as part of his extended Weasley family.

I'm not sure I agree about the time in the 3rd book when Harry goes off and Hermione is in Hagrid's cabin. I invision her thoughts being "I hope we can free Sirius," " I hope no one sees us", "I hope Harry gets back soon," as well as "I hope Ron is ok and Wormtail didn't hurt him to badly." Because I think Hermione and Ron, like Harry always put others before themselves, no matter what. They won't be "the golden Trio" other wise.
Hi, back Muggy. I can't take credit for the pharse "zsa zsa zue" cause I took it from Sex and the City. The episode was about a friend who marries another friend because they don't want to die alone. Carrie wonders what's the differnce between that friend you marry or end up with verse you're other friends. And makes the point that without passion, that person you marry is like every other friend you have.
And pallas I very much agree. That Harry has a type and Hermione isn't it, and they both want and need differnt things from there life. But they also need eachother, Harry needs someone to take care of him and Hermione needs someone who understands here sans the fights and confusion and sexual tension.

Absolutely, Amyrat151... I didn't mean to imply that Hermione isn't a very important person to Harry... just that it's very much a sibling-like, platonic relationship.

muggleview, I like your point about Hermione going back with Ron in book 1... never thought of that before!

Other than that... I'm fresh out of things to say at the moment...

Ellen, what I meant in book 3 was Hermione didn't feel the urgency to accompany Harry all the time as a lover would do. She easily agreed to be left behind. Of course, she would concern about Harry's safety. Out of friendship or professional partnership. However, why would she take time alone was, in my opinion, to give herself time to think about Ron back in hospital (and how to explain to him about Time-turner etc.). The movie took a different approach, made it more ambiguous between H/Hr and R/Hr, thoughout the Time-turner part, but put the more definitive R/Hr when Hermione asked whether Ron's wound hurt.
Thus, Book 3 is the beginning of R/Hr specific relationship,but none changed in H/Hr.
Another thing in Book 1, Pallas, actually is the farewell message. Hermione would remember Harry as a great wizard, not as someone she was fond of. It was a distant respect, not an intimate one.