Hello! This is another of our 'Venom' threads which are now being opened.

This is a privilege that we have decided to try on the forums to give people a chance to express their feelings against particular ships because there is currently no place to do so. This privilege WILL be revoked if people abuse it - this is an idea we are trying purely on a trial basis so if it gets pulled, you will only have yourselves to blame.

The mods respectfully request that you behave with maturity, decorum and respect for other fans in here and strongly recommend that you familiarise yourself with the VTM rules which are different to those you may have come across in other forums. Ignorance of the rules is NOT a defence.

These are NOT debate threads - they are purely for NON-SUPPORTERS of ships.

1. Members who support the ships being discussed here are strongly advised to stay away. You WILL see things that will upset, annoy and anger you. The purpose of these threads is for people to have a place to freely vent with like-minded people, but NOT to argue. Supporters have their own threads, people who hate certain ships need to have a place to vent to that is free from retaliatory/argumentative posts or flames (nasty, personal remarks)

2. These are NOT debate threads - there is no case to answer. The mods DO NOT want to see defensive posts in these threads.

3. All Veritaserum rules still apply - no cursing, abuse, nastiness or personal attacks will be tolerated here. You may feel free to criticise the ship as much as you like because they are fictional and you're not hurting anyone, but DO NOT attack REAL people, DO NOT attack Jo Rowling personally who worked very hard to create this series that we all love (although you may express dissatisfaction, so long as you do it POLITELY) and DO NOT attack the opinions, intelligence or make other personal remarks about the fans who support these ships. That behaviour WILL NOT be tolerated. Such posts will be met with official warnings and a restriction of your posting privileges.

4. Please do not argue against one ship on the basis that another is more likely. These threads are ONLY for discussing the reasons why you don't like THIS PARTICULAR SHIP - the fact that you prefer another is NOT a valid argument.

5. These threads are not to be opened by regular members; any Venom threads not opened by a moderator will be locked as they have in the past.

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This particular thread is for those who are against a possible Harry/Hermione ship. Remember: these threads are on a trial basis. As long as the rules are followed, it will be allowed to continue, but if they aren't, then it won't.

So have fun!

Thanks for the chance to vent out some "venoms". This is not directed to any persons. It's directed to the chance of Harry and Hermione having a romantic relationship.

I don't doubt the close friendship between Harry and Hermione, but I can't see romantic relationship between them. They aren't attracted to each other romantically. They are attracted to other people romantically, but from each other.

To me the nails to the coffin for H/Hr relationship are in GOF. Harry has denied any romantic relationship with Hermione publicly and the most significant was in front of Mrs. Weasley, his surrogate mother, and Ginny Weasley (cleverly not mentioned directly, but she was definitely there and witnessed the clear denial), the girl whom he acknowledges to be very taken with him. It would be very difficult for Harry to retract his denial without losing his credibility in the wizarding world and hurting many people who loved him and whom he loved in the process. It's possible to happen, but I doubt Jo Rowling would like the idea of Harry taking back his words and making his life complicated.

By now Harry has been in close friendship with some girls. He has made his impression on each of them known to the readers. His impression to Hermione has some negative points which he never revised up to now. That's the continuous unspoken denial in the series to a possible H/Hr romantic relationship.

The other factor is Hermione's determination. She is not the type of girl who is easy to change her goal. She already set her mind to Ron and it was shown in POA. It would be nearly impossible for her to see other boys. She even rejected the advance of Viktor Krum who gave her the first romantic kiss of her life. Therefore, I was not surprised to see her harsh actions in HBP, although I don't like her behaviour.
I would be shocked if she suddenly showed romantic interest in Harry. THAT would be totally out of character.

The statement "Ron died, then Hermione married Harry" before HBP is now more likely not going to happen, but even before HBP it's not going to be easy for Hermione to do so. First, being with Harry will remind her of Ron, so she will feel miserable all her life. Second, being with Harry will be unfair to Harry, because Harry will just be a surrogate and replacement for Ron.

I wouldn't want to go into "deeper" feeling between Harry and Hermione, because there is actually none. That was all built up on the premise that someday they will realise it, but there is always 50% chance the day will never come. Now the chance is practically zeroed by Jo Rowling. Harry has never looked at Hermione romantically and Hermione has never treated Harry beyond close friendship.

Of course, to please some people Jo Rowling can write an epilogue about Hermione and Harry finally got together after Ron and Ginny passed away, but I don't think that's going to be right. First, what's the point? They are good friends and can stay good friends without having romantic relationship. Second, they would rather cherish the good memories they have in respect to those they have shared lives with.

i actually like the idea of these threads

Now anyways, i found the Harry Hermione Relationship theory basically...predictable. Though so was Ron and Hermione, but the actually thoughts behind the H/Hr were Hero gets with the girl. I found in the books though Harry spent alot of time with Hermione and the fact they never even took a shot at a relationship. Which led me to believe htey wouldn't be together, but i must agree with everything Muggleview has said, makes more points...and better then me.

I'm not sure if I like the idea of these threads, they seem a little...mean. But I guess the mods are giving people an oppertunity to air their opinions so I can't criticise that.

Anyway, my thoughts on Harry/Hermione;
I've never really liked the idea of H/Hr purely because I never saw them as anything more than friends. They have an excellent close-knit friendship, based on mutual trust and understanding but this does not constitute a relationship. For me, chemistry (that physical attraction we feel to someone) is what defines the boundaries between just friends and something more. I feel H/Hr is missing that chemistry. And while I am well aware that it is not possible to base a relationship on chemistry alone, it is still needed along with the other requirements for a relationship to work. Harry and Hermione are (in JK's own words) 'very platonic friends' in my eyes and nothing more.

Bash away!! sorry - Only joking - I think these threads are an amazing idea, especially after the release of HBP. Too many people take the threads too seriously and this cause the most senseless fights imaginable.

But onwards we go...

Harry and Hermione was just NEVER going to happen!! Its been quite clear from the word go that Hermione was destined to be with Ron, and Harry with Ginny! Admitedly I didnt think it would take this long, but nevertheless, Harry and Hermione's relationships is almost mirrored by Ron and Ginny - their like brother and sister, and to them, a relationship is like Ron and Ginny - It just wouldnt happen!! The seperation and pairing between the four has been obvious since the beginning of their first train ride. I know this is a H/HR thred, but I brought Ginny and Ron in as an example of the relationship that stands between H/HR

Couldn't agree more with you Nick ! I think Harry and Hermione's relationsship is very brother/sister like. Harry can sometimes be a bit protective of Hermione but never in the romantic sort of way. He way of beeing somehow protective to Hermione, reflects the way Ron is protective and caring to Ginny. Quite frankly I doubt they could ever have ANY sort of romantic relationsship.

In HBP when Hermione tells Harry why many students are suddenly so interested in playing on the Quidditch Team, Ron gets a little jealous because she tells how Harry is admirable. We have never experienced Harry feeling this way for Hermione. Quite clearly, its Ron & Hermione and Harry & Ginny who are destined to be together in these books.

Totally. I mean they have never shown any romantic interest in each other, you're right, they behave very much like Ron and Ginny do. I mean, they love each other like siblings. I mean, this ship just seems a little....wrong to me. It's just missing chemistry, missing...attraction.

I agree with Nick that Harry and Hermione dating would be like dating a sibling ....eeewwwww!
Harry likes Hermione, he's very fond of her, but never once has he looked at her in that way! And we've been reading things through his eyes for 6 years of his life, so we would know if he had. He's even stated that being around her too much when Ron wasn't around was boring, doesn't sound much like a love match to me! Harry & Hermione? Absolutely not, no way!! She doesn't fancy him at all either, she's told him he's good looking the same as he told her he didn't think she was ugly, but she's got it bad for Ron always has had, so I imagine there is absolutely no chemistry between them at all. hehe...

this is fun

While I think that Harry and Hermione have an amazing friendship, they would never work out as a couple. Hermione isn't as fun loving and humorous as- say, Ginny- and I think we can all agree that Harry does need someone to make him smile, to relieve all the sadness in his life. While Hermione will always be there to lend a hand, it's been made extremely obvious that she and Harry are no more than friends. They would make a very odd romantic pair- I'm quite glad that it's probably not going to happen for them- they would only end up arguing all the time.

As well as everyone else, I think Harry a dn herione just have a very strong bond - one that is completely platonic. I personally think that if Harry had any romantic feelings he would have shown them or realised them now. I mean many things have happened that would spur romantic intentions - her being pretty at the yule ball, her kissing him on the cheek, the whole Viktor Krum thing. I just don't think the chemistry is there. I think that they have a very strong bond, don't get me wrong, but it's more siblingish.

I agree with everyone completely about Harry and Hermione being more like siblings. A big part of why I can't see them together, ever, is because Hermione and Ron have been so set up to get together. It's funny how I never noticed it reading the books before, but since rereading the earlier ones now that there are all these really obvious hints in the newer books and movies, it's everywhere. Ron and Hermione have always had this kind of tense, volatile relationship, and no matter how angry they make each other they can't stay apart for long. It's a total cliche, but it's bound to happen and I like it. Harry and Hermione...just seems off. It just doesn't fit in my mind. Plus, in the most recent book, Hermione knew Harry liked Ginny and, far from being hurt, was all for it.

Bashing seems pretty minimal around these threads....I'm surprised. I thought everyone would really take advantage of the oppurtunity, but nope. Everyone seems fairly polite. Not that that's a bad thing or anything....

Anyway...

Harry and Hermione, to me, was always about nearly as possible as Ginny/Draco. I didn't see how there was a chance after OotP and GoF.
What bothered me most about the ship was the "evidence" (or lack of it,) because basically, there wasn't any. Sure, they were friendly, and they saved each other, or whatever else there was, but most of it seemed like a misinterpretation of the text, or an opinion. (such as: 'they understand each other better' or 'in this paragraph Harry is really upset that she's hurt, so therefore he likes her more then a friend...') That just didn't cut it for me. Not once did a piece of evidence really stand out and show it's Harry/Hermione. And not because it's a "deeper", "between the lines" relationship, but because there just wasn't any. Shouldn't there have been something, some *little* clue that would've been obviously shouting out Harry/Hermione? I thought so. And yet, I never got it. And I still haven't.

Another thing that was annoying was the fact that this relationship seemed completely and totally boring. There just wasn't any chemistry there at all. And it didn't seem like the type of romance I'd be interested in reading (and I know the books aren't romance, but in general their relationship would put me straight to sleep.) Even the fights were annoying. They mainly consisted of one person yelling at the other, and then five seconds later the other admitting they were wrong. Which got increasingly irritating, especially in OotP. There's minimal conflict between the two, (which you need for a good romance,) there isn't any teasing (which I love ), there weren't any of those sweet moments (which I also love ), and their good qualities didn't play off of each other, but clashed. (Whereas with Hermione and Ron, one could help the other where he or she lacked.) Basically there wasn't anything. And to top the whole thing off, I didn't find their relationship much deeper then a frienship, pretty much leaving it with absolutely nothing.

And finally: Ron. What would happen to him? Well usually he ended up in some kind of depressing life style. Such as, death (I can't tell you how much I hate this theory), or being thrown together with some girl that didn't suit him at all. (Like Lavedner, Luna, or Fleur to name a few). Or he would be single. And while there's nothing wrong with that, it just irritated me that the hero would get the girl, the fame, the money, and the sidekick wouldn't get anything. Or, in some theories I've read Ron would get jealous, creating some sort of love triangle (and if you look in my sig you can see how much I love that idea,) which at times ended up with the trio breaking apart, and I can't even begin to tell you how much I despise that. Ron's a big part of Harry and Hermione's life, and it would bother me so much to see him pushed aside like that. (Can you tell he's my favorite character? )

Overall, it's boring, it's practically impossible, and it's just plain annoying. Harry and Hermione together isn't appealing. And while I'm sure some people liked this relationship, it hardly did much for me.

I totally agree, kipsy, I have never understood the H/Hr ship. It's just form book four and on, it seemed so obviously clear that it wasn't an option. I mean, their relationship would be boring. Harry doesn't enjoy spending time alone, just hanging out with Hermione, he only really enjoys being with her when they're disscussing something, he doesn't just enjoy the past times she chooses, yet he doesn't try and change them. It's obvious Hermione needs someone to take her out of just academics, and have some fun, and Harry needs someone strong enough to be with him. Now, the trio rules all, they have a much closer bond than the H/G or R/Hr ships could ever have, they work best as a team. And yes, Ron. I mean, it would just be another hero/main girl story where the sidekick gets left behind. Jo made Ron such a loveable character because he's based on her friend, that she wouldn't let that happen. H/Hr wasn't really an option to me.

Wow, I'm glad I checked this thread out. Everyone does seem to be pretty calm in here, the other venom threads were getting a bit scary.
I, for the life of me, just cannot picture Harry and Hermione as anything more than friends. I think a romantic relationship between them would result in quite a disaster- they can meet each other's needs, but only on a friendly level. Ron and Hermione can bring out the best in each other, and have very obviously shown that they want to take their 'friendship' to the next level. I'm one of those people who, from the beginning of SS/PS, when being introduced to Hermione, thought, 'Hey, wouldn't it be cool if she hooked up with Ron?' Dunno, but that's just what I think. I really needed a good dose of R/Hr today, I was getting depressed. This did it, I think.

Yeah, i read all the venom threads, but I only post in here. I guess it's because since most of us are happy with what happened, we don't have much to be angry about, a month ago we would be really screaming in this thread, but not now that we know what's going on. I never eally saw R/Hr in the beginning, I just assumed H/Hr and couldn't care less. But when the book progressed, and I saw the full picture, I thought it would be a more interesting relationship if they got together with other people, and I think it is.

Yeah, I agree with everyone up there^, but that's why I'm here! It'd be too weird if Harry and Hermione got together.....They are more family-likeish- does that make sense? Like if Hermione and Ron got married and Harry (still alive, hopefully!) came to visit, he would be like "Uncle/Cousin/Grandpa/Whatever Harry" to their kids.

~*Ozzi*~

Well, why would we bash? There's nothing for us to bash about, because we love Hermione, we love Harry, but we don't love them together. And there is a very clear line between bashing and telling the truth. I don't really like threads like this, because they usally invoke all kinds of nasty posts and bashing. But since we have nothing to bash, I will post here happily.
The first time I saw PS I thought Harry will probaly end up with that one girl, forgetting Hermione's name quite quickly. I also thought hmm...maybe the first time I read the books, so I went to H/Hr sites but I found myself inwardly disagreeing with everything I read.
I think the point in the books were Harry and Hermione become obvious that they won't end up together is in GoF. Having Rita saying that Harry and Hermione were going out was, I think, suppose to be compaired to all the other lies she tells. And Harry thinking that he got sick of telling people Hermione wasn't his girlfriend was I think JK saying that she was sick of the same thing.

I think this is a very good idea and I don't think anyone will be rude because I love these characters dearly and everyone is intitled to their own personal opinion. But I hate when some H/Hr shipper (only some, mind you, definately not all) bash Ron a lot like he isn't good enough and I am a big Ron fan. I mean, I love Ron and Hermione but I don't hate Harry.
But, again, that is only a few H/Hr shippers. It is getting rarer so no hurt feelings.
Harry and Hermione's friendship is extremely strong but I don't she another relationship there. Not like R/Hr.

Yes, Harry and Hermione shippers do tend to downplay Ron. He's the obstacle in Harry and Hermione's relationship, because most of the H/Hr shippers on the old debate thread believed Ron had feelings for her. I won't call it bashing, what they did. More spinning the books their way.
I think that they started out with the first book liking Harry and Hermione over Ron and it continues from there. That's an opion I got from a Harry/Hermione shipper I IM.

That was the impression I received too Amyrat. Still, to each his own. I have absolutely no objection to people continuing to ship H/Hr after HBP so long as they don't bash JK Rowling.

Ok, just a quick reminder; lets leave the H/Hr shippers out of this. This is purely against that ship, not it's supporters. If we start to get into the supporters, no matter how polite, it becomes personal, and we don't want that.

So keep your 'bashing' on the fictional characters surrounding this ship and not on the real people who support it.

Sorry QQS, I forget your name. We didn't mean to offend but it happens I guess, on accident, I mean.
And fvweasley, anyone else for that matter. I've taken a look at the other venom threads, some serious negativety.
But does anyone agree with what I said before that JK gets sick of the same thing, telling people that Hermione wasn't Harry's girl friend.

I definitely agree with some of the others who've posted on this board before. Harry and Hermione have a friendship relationship--nothing more. All those times Hermione helped Harry out in the library when Ron was either 1) ticked at one or both of them, or 2) with his buddy Lav-lav, and nothing ever--EVER--happened between them. I do believe that says rather a lot.

Even in the movies, it is not Harry, but Ron Hermione turns to for support--this espescially in POA.

Even saying all this, I still know that it is not too late for Harry and Hermione to get together...even Harry recognizes that as people get older, they outgrow at least some of their friends. I'll just have to keep my hopes up for the budding Ron and Hermione relationship and hope that Harry finds solace in Ginny, even if they aren't officially together anymore.

Sorry QQS, that was intended as a comment not bashing. didn't mean to offend anyone.

Amyrat, I saw the venom too. My last post to you came directly after that.

I know I've said it before but Harry and Hermione were never going to be a couple. There is absolutely no chemistry between them (and regardless of what others might say, that chemistry is important).

Venom, eh? Sounds...brutal. But we fans must let our feelings out.

I've had disagreements with H/Hr for a long time now, and even more so because of HBP. Harry and Hermione are just close friends, and they wont become anything more. Its all friendly stuff. Harry saves Hermione, Hermione helps with homework. Its all in a days work.

QQS, I wouldnt call this bashing. We just have different opinions. After all, inanimate things have feelings too.

Yeah and it seems that if something was ever there but friendship it would of started very early on, GoF...maybe even PoA, because the two of them are pretty close. That's another problem I saw, if something was suppose to happen wouldn't of by now? I mean, in GoF when she was helping him with the first task there was plenty of time for him to see Hermione that way.

I agree that Ron and Hermione are meant to be together .
But I really dislike the whole Harry and Ginny thing for some reason (I have no idea why ).
I used to like Ginny in COS (the movie) she was so quiet and nice. One of my favorite scenes was when Harry was in the Burrow and Ginny comes down the stairs and asks mrs. weasley where her jumper is and she turns around and sees Harry and her eyes go very wide and runs up the stairs.LOL I thought that was hilarious! . Now I just don't know.

Hmm....It might be that after I watched all three movies, I decided to read the books, so I bought OOTP and read it before I ever read the first HP book (LOL), and saw how different Ginny was from COS.
But I decided to stop at chp. 30 though and read all the books before it and then reread the 5th book again and then the 6th. But even now I just don't know what to think of it, I'm so confused .
If anyone could tell me why H/G are meant to be together, that would be great.

MOD EDIT: Ermmm....I think you're in the wrong thread. This is for Anti-H/Hr shippers, not anti-H/G shippers...there's a separate thread for that. Please keep it on topic and be more careful when posting.

Woops sorry QQS, LOL . I read the rules so fast, I didn't realize that it says the thread is for Non-Supporters, I just wanted to vent my frustration. Anyways, I'll stay out of this thread, although I might decide not to ship anymore and come here (I was a non-shipper before but with everyone in the forums shipping either h/hr or r/hr or any others, I got hooked. LOL) (I only started shipping last month.)
Once again I am sorry. Bye

i am so against harry hermione im a very big h/g supporter but h/hr is never going to happen although harry is comfortable with hermione he doesnt see her like that

*sigh* Even with these venom threads, the best of the debates have dropped off because we're all agreeing with each other. There isn't much to debate about in the ship genre anymore. Much as I disagree with H/Hr, I wish JKR had left it until book 7 to sink the ship because the debates were so interesting. Does anyone else agree?

I agree. When book 6 started, it seemed like it would have more romance than usual...and it did. I mean, she didn't have to put it all in one book, she could've spread it out. I miss the disscussion, but there's kind of....no point now. The shipping wars have ended. Okay, I'm getting off topic, now...

It is a tad depressing to be rid of the shipping debates, they were so much fun. But in a way I'm very glad she put her cards on the table, because I did enjoy this book very much.
On thing that still gets me is what a some H/Hr people are asking "How could Hermione chose Ron instead of Harry". To this I say there never was a chocie.

That's a good strong reply for the mind-boggling question, Ellen!
Some people cannot believe that Hermione does not see Harry as boyfriend material for her. However, at least until the end HBP, Hermione has never seen Harry more than as a close friend and classmate. There are several occasions where Hermione and Harry could share some quality time for romance (POA, GOF, OOP, HBP). Yet, they didn't even try to do anything about it. Hermione is pretty much focusing on Ron, while Harry has been overlooking her for other girls (Cho and Ginny). Both is okay with it.
Finally in HBP, it's clear that:
- Hermione loves Ron
- Harry acknowledges that Hermione loves Ron, and he doesn't feel uneasy about it. In fact, he is worried if Ron and Hermione relationship doesn't work, so it must have been inadvertently included in the Felix Felicis moment that caused the break-up of Ron and Lavender, thus giving Hermione her "nice day".
- Hermione knows that Harry acknowledges her love to Ron, and she doesn't feel uncomfortable about it. Hermione doesn't think Harry would be jealous. She doesn't feel any guilt for loving Ron instead of Harry. Thus, both Harry and Hermione know that nothing romantic has been going on between them. Both feels okay with it. No remorse. No hidden crush. They are simply close friends without any romance.

- Harry loves Ginny
- Hermione is happy that Harry loves Ginny. No jealousy.
- Harry knows that Hermione is happy with his love to Ginny. Harry doesn't feel guilty or betraying Hermione's friendship. He doesn't think Hermione is going to be uncomfortable with it.

In fact, Harry is more concerned about Ron's feeling. After kissing Ginny, Harry was anxiously reading Ron's reaction. When Ginny gave good-bye kiss, Harry noted Ron was immediately facing opposite direction.

Until it's shown that Harry stops loving Ginny and vice versa, Hermione stops loving Ron and vice versa, the chance of Harry-Hermione romantic relationship is very much close to zero. Even then, it's doubtful that Harry and Hermione would see each other romantically, after failing to do so while they were still free to make choices.

To be honest, much and all as I love Harry, I can see exactly why Hermione loves Ron (despite him being quite a prat from time to time!). I wouldn't say it was a matter of choosing Ron, because Hermione's feelings for Harry were strictly platonic so there was never any question of her having to choose between them...there was only ever one answer. Ron!

Hmmm... Harry-Hemione never crossed my mind because they're too close to each other that I think it's more of siblings than a romantic couple. Both are caring for each other but it's like a brother caring for his sister and vice versa. There are also factors that I see that's why I never saw them.
First is the setting. I'm actually tried of the hero always getting the girl. I'm wondering why would the hero always have them if he already have everything. I found it a sort of selfish thing.
Next is Ginny. I really believe from the start that it's Harry and Ginny. First love never dies. I love the twist between Harry and Ginny that in first, Harry was sort of ignoring Ginny or he was trying to ignore what he feels and he focused on a girl that I believe, he wasn't really attracted to her. It's just a facade. Then Ginny to Harry, an obvious one then she slowed down but the feels is still in there. And in the end, they found the right way.
Next is this word: obvious. How could you be so blind if all the clues are there, laid in front of your eyes. I'm in the obvious and possible ship.
And then, the bickering thing. I really like that kind of development in a relationship.

Harry and Hermione has a chemistry, like Ron and Ginny. That's what I see in them, the sibling chemistry.

The bickering thing that some H/Hr is pointing as childish and immature maybe true but it's effective. Bickering is still a form of communication, a communication that Harry and Hermione don't have. How do they (H and Hr) communicate? When Hermione is doing her "talking", Harry is not replying on her "talking". And what's weird is they are communicating through Ron. Ron is Harry and Hermione common thing, it's Ron alone. But Ron and Hermione are communicating in many ways.

How could Hermione chose Ron instead of Harry? that's the question and the answer is because of love. A kind of love that Harry can't give Hermione but he could offer her a love of a brother as well as Hermione to Harry.

Wow, venom threads are interesting ideas. I was sort of thought there would be a couple of arguments and bashes in posts, but its actually quite nice, there's barely any bashing. Everyone hear is telling Harry and Hermione how they see them, not bashing them, which is what I'm going to do.

I love Harry, I think he's a great character. I love Hermione, I think she's a great character. He's the great hero, she's one of the great sidekicks, does this make them a great couple? In my opinion no.

Harry doesn't communicate much with Hermione, when she talks to him he either zones out or automatically lies to her, which is not a very healthy relationship. Bickering is indeed immature, but Ron and Hermione are telling the truth through their bickering, whereas Harry is sometimes dishonest. In my opinion, bickering honestly is better than agreeing dishonestly.

They have a much more sibling type of relationship rather than a romantic one. They support eachother, they care for eachother, they inspire eachother, it's a perfectly good friendship.

The one thing that strikes me though, the thing that makes me quite sure that they are not a couple is that fact that:
a. Harry thinks that Ron and Hermione like eachother, and doesn't mind much (except he thinks that he'll be left out)
b. Hermione supports Harry and Ginny, and was "beaming" when he kissed Ginny
If they did have feelings for eachother, wouldn't they have been discovered after these incidents?

Thank you Muggy, it's what I've always thought. Hermione is completely deicated to Harry, and I am now quite proud of her character for sticking with Harry in GoF during the fight him and Ron had, despite her feeling for Ron.
But that's just an offtopic thought. Harry and Hermione's relationship is quite special the way it is, being able to have an inside view into the oppasite sex's mind without embarassment. Even Ron and Ginny can't have that level without some discomfurt, being brother and sister. I think you get what I mean. I used to add on the debate threads about Harry and Hermione's relationship, it's not broke so don't try and fix it.

Amyrat151, good points. I too think what Harry and Hermione have is a wonderful, special friendship so why ruin it? When I first discovered the H/Hr shippers, I tried to picture H/Hr but I couldn't. The image just wouldn't come because they didn't fit together in that respect. As friends, however, they're perfect.

when i read the books it's ron and hermoine all the way. onscreen is a totally different matter. i do belive emma and daniel have more chemistry as harry and hermoine. but it is too complicated. and predictable.

hi

i defenitly agree whith you mugleview and Amyrat151, harry and hermione are big friends, and we can notice that becouse they really dont mind the fact that they r from oposite sex.

the fact of many people to think that they have a loving relation its because they dont believ in guy/girl friendship, which is starting to be very normal nowadays

we all know now that harry loves ginny and hermione loves ron, and like you muggleview said, she dosnt feel guilt for having that feeling or for had sharing with harry those feelings when she was upset with ron, and harry werent with jealous when he noticed tey're mutual love... so i think its very clear that they wont ever love each other more than a friends love

kiss
miia


MOD EDIT : Please review the rules again. The use of netspeak is not allowed in the forums - "r" should have been "are". Your post has been edited.

Hi all, great postings! Just want to add more venoms to excite the thread:

One crucial problem with Harry-Hermione romantic relationship is the absence of romantic expressions from either side until the end of HBP. Harry and Hermione have lived in close proximities for roughly 10 months every year, sometimes more. There should be plenty chances for them to express certain things beyond the common friendship, if they intended to have a romantic relationship. What we saw are gestures between them which are 100% within the boundaries of common friendship. With HBP we know that a peck on the cheek doesn't count as a romantically meaningful kiss. Holding hand is not romantic (Snape/Narcissa). Hugging is not romantic (even between Harry and Ginny in the earlier Quidditch wins in HBP). Those "non-romantic" actions belong to friendly gestures.
Apparently both Harry and Hermione intentionally never overstep the boundary of a common friendship (a strong one, nevertheless).
One example: We know the Dursleys have phoneline. Hermione’s parents must have phoneline as well (must this be stated in the books?). If there is any burning desires for them to communicate, they can always use the phone! Never in the series, Harry receives a phone from Hermione. Never in the series Harry calls Hermione. Harry did hope Hermione might call in the POA, but that was only because Ron failed to get through him. Yet, Hermione never called. “Never bother to call” may be rude, but that’s applicable as well.
In the beginning Book 5, it’s unclear whether Hermione went straight to the Burrow after the term or went home first and then went to the Burrow, before following the Weasleys to the Grimmauld Place. We read later how “anxious” Hermione (and Ron) was to let Harry know about their whereabouts, but Dumbledore forbade them to do so. Hermione could have called Harry from her home if she went to her home first (most likely she did not go home first). She could use the phone in the village as Ron did once. Somehow Hermione never thought about it. This is not “out-of-character” in just book 6, but in all books!
Phone conversation may be a good tool to open and maintain a romantic relationship, although it can also be used to maintain common friendship. Hermione never used that for Harry. Harry never used it for Hermione. Could it be that Hermione decided not to use the phone at all because the person she romantically interested in is not the one with the phone?
Quite possibly (not that obvious, maybe). One example is in POA (the beginning of the romantic story of Ron and Hermione: going shopping and enjoying ice-cream together without Harry). One interesting thing in the beginning of it was something Hermione thought she wanted to buy for her birthday. She wanted an owl. If she wanted to communicate more frequently with Harry, would she think of an owl at the first place (while pocketing Harry’s home phone number from the end of Book 2, and Harry’s owl is reliable enough)? She must have thought of correspondence with someone only reachable by owl, not by muggle methods (snail mail for instance) and whose owl’s reliability is getting questionable (good old Errol). More interestingly thereafter, Hermione changed her mind. Instead of an owl, she bought a cat which fur color matched Ron’s hair color! So an owl may not be that important, because our Hermione wanted something soft to cuddle more urgently than owl correspondence. This is a sign of a girl in love! She cannot cuddle the boy, but a cat can be a substitute right now. Besides, Errol seemed to be good enough for a while. He has visited Hermione’s place often enough not to get lost along the way. Also, it’s still a matter of 10 months from now that Hermione might need an owl for correspondence. At the end of POA, Ron got his own (good reliable) owl, Pigwidgeon. Curiously, Hermione never had the urge to buy her own owl anymore thereafter.
This is the boundary of communication which Harry and Hermione don’t intend to cross. The convenience of a phone call is not in their list to communicate. Harry never asked Hermione’s phone number. Hermione never intended to give Harry her phone number in exchange for his. Hermione knows what giving away a phone number may represent in muggleworld and she restrained herself from doing so to Harry.
It’s just one case where Harry and Hermione knowingly didn’t do things which may easily lead to a relationship beyond common friendship and they don’t feel missing chances.

Ah, as usual, another long but mindblowingly accurate post. You've summed up everything I've never had the wits (or mental capacity) to say. I have always wondered why Hermione wouldn't have called Harry, she was Muggle born and certainly knew how to use the phone. And I loved the thought of Crookshanks being like a substitute for Ron- that's adorable! Yeah, I think Harry and Hermione are great friends and always will be, but never anything more than that. Cheers.

Sorry, but I have just one opinion about this: Harry and Hermione are best friends, and they will always be. They will never be anything more than just good friends!

I agree that JKR shouldn't have blasted us with so much romance. I thought it would have been better if it was gradually getting more obvious throughout all the books not just blasting us with so much drama lol. But also you have to remember that the students are 16 and thats the big dating time (Even though I had more romance then they did, excluding Ron's constant snogging, I can't beat that one lol)

I like the idea of this thread but I mean there isn't much to say about H/HR. Its not gonna happen and thats basically it, don't you think?

I never thought Harry liked Hermione. I could understand why H/Hr shippers supported them but I thought that canon evidence always pointed towards R/Hr.

i agree the romance overshadowed important aspects of the book. Yes, these characters are getting older but still, you grow into it. Not just one day decided "Hey im going to like members of the opposite gender today"

But i really Loathe Harry Hermoine ships. It's just too perfect. The dark handsome hero and the pretty intelligent sidekick.

It just doesnt do anything for me. I'm all about the dangerous, forbideen loves...

Keepstar1331, I don't think Harry-Hermione romantic relationship is too perfect, because it is not intended to be at the first place. Tend to think that their romantic relationship will be ruining a very good friendship. Thinking that Harry and Hermione will be romantically involved just because one is the hero and one is the good sidekick may be happening for a 2-h movie or short stories with few characters. However, in the series of 7 books comprising 7 years (and flashbacks) it should be deeper than that. If you look deeper into the series without hampered by fantasy (or idolizing hero-sidekick relationship), it is relatively easy to see that Jo Rowling has never intended to pair Harry with Hermione at all. It's pretty much clear that the story is told around Harry and the Weasleys, not Harry and the Grangers. In the background, we also see again and again how Hermione is comfortable with the Weasleys and only paid superficial attention to Harry's family or foster family. Ron is more worried about Harry's well-being with the Dursleys than Hermione! Quite possibly Ginny was behind it as well. ("She never shuts up" talking about Harry). I know people can idolize some pairings, especially if they like the actors or actresses who play the characters. Some tend to stay firm in their "ship" because they already fell in love with the idea (partially helped by numerous fan fictions stories who try to offer alternatives to what the author(s) intended). However, frankly speaking from the reality of the Harry Potter series, Harry and Hermione relationship is not planned to happen, at least not until the end of HBP.

Just to relay one good opinion I read from another thread:
Harry and Hermione's relationship have never meant to be romantic.
Hermione never saw Harry as a boyfriend material.
Harry never saw Hermione as a girlfriend material.
From the first time they met in the train, there was no attraction. Hermione focused on Ron. Harry looked outside. Nothing.
When Hermione was petrified, Harry used the fact to escape punishment, to the astonishment of Ron. He didn't feel the pain as much as Ron did.
Harry did not miss Hermione much during the two breakups. During the breakup with Ron, Hermione didn't feel bad not to speak to Harry. She didn't feel happy to speak with Harry either. Harry thought more about missing Ron, than being with Hermione. They are just not made for each other. They are friends, classmates, teammates, but not lovers.
Even when they are together, they will not focus on each other. I am afraid each will still think about Ron.

Now my own addition:
It can't be said that Harry didn't care for Hermione. He did care as a good friend, but not more than that. I see more and more proof that Harry-Hermione romantic relationship is not based on canon (even before HBP), but more on personal preference. This is a different issue than analyzing the books deeper. The personal feeling supercedes the facts presented in the books in authority. That's why there are more symbolism used than the real quotations. Symbolisms can easily be suited to personal feelings than the hard proof of Jo's writings.
I respect those who continue to "ship" Harry and Hermione because they want to. It's their right and privilege as human beings. I just don't feel right if they said that Jo has been mistaken in her planning. I think she has carefuly setup the relationship so cautious readers will see Harry and Hermione are just friends.

i didn't even know that these venom threads existed until now.

well, this is probably one of the only venom threads i'm going to write in. I might not be a complete obsessed R/H shipper, but i knew that it was the ship that was going to happen. However, Harry and Hermione seems just wrong. Many people have said in this thread that their relationship is like brother/sister. I know they are not related, but they act like they are. There has never been a time when the books hinted that harry might have non-platonic feelings for hermione. they are way too comfortable with each other for this ship to work. i'm sure many people think that best friends can also be boyfriend/girlfriend, but harry and hermione just doesn't seem like they will make a relationship work. i don't despise H/Hr shippers or think that they can't read or analyze clearly, but i just think that it's obvious what ship was going to happen in the beginning and some people just look passed that

i think that harry and hermione are the best of friends and will always be, but never anything more than that

Very well said!
If Harry and Hermione have relationship it will be doomed from the start because they can't handle each other in personal lives. For adventures they are fine, but not in peaceful time. See how Harry spoke harshly to Hermione in OOP and HBP. Harry just cannot stand Hermione's nagging and know-it-all attitudes. Hermione wasn't happy when Harry became her competitor in academic lessons. Basically it's obvious that Hermione's heart is not for Harry ever since Book 1. Harry has never thought of Hermione to be a girlfriend material for him. They are just friends. That's all.

I wish I had more time to express my opinion on this board, but it is just too obvious that it is not Harry/Hermione. I understand those shippers' viewpoints that they think it would be cute because he's brave, and she's smart, etc, but they should at least consider the fact that Ron/Hermione would also be cute. Anyway, the perfume, the Spoiler warning! Do not continue reading this post if you have not read HBP! "I love you, Hermione," the kiss on the cheek, the jealousy of Viktor... Oh, I just love JKR's not-so-subtle hints... She's just so good with that! Even Rowling said on her interview with MuggleNet that it is not Harry and Hermione. (I would make a link but I'm short on time.)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but since he was supposedly "going out" with Hermione before Lavender, then after he broke up with her, wouldn't they be "going out" again? I mean, Hermione sort of did forgive him...