I know I posted this in the other thread...but nobody said anything, and it didn't relate to what everybody else was talking about (how he acts and stuff like that)
Why wasn't he happy about what he said in the memory. I know it was about Horcruxes...but does that mean he knows what Voldemort is up to? Or can he just speculate since he doesn't really know like Harry and Dumbledore do?
Full Version: Slughorn
I think he probably felt a little responsible, probably even embarassed. And as he says to Tom, Horcruxes are a banned subject - he shouldn't have mentioned it in the first place.
How would you feel if you were the one that inadvertently implanted Hitler's hatred of the Jews?
How would you feel if you were the one that inadvertently implanted Hitler's hatred of the Jews?
I think Slughorn must know that Voldemort is using Horcruxes to prevent his own death. For three reasons:
1) Just as you mentioned, he changed his own memory of telling Tom Riddle about the Horcruxes. I think he would have done this after he realized Voldemort had succeeded in making himself immortal, which would probably mean he did it some time between Vapourmort (when the AK on Harry backfired) and GoF when Voldemort 'resurrected' himself.
2) Slughorn was obviously ashamed at having told Voldemort how to achieve immortality once he realized what Voldemort was doing. He went to great lengths to prevent Dumbledore from obtaining his true recollection of the night Tom Riddle asked him about them. (I have no doubt that when Slughorn was telling Tom about Horcruxes, he did not have any idea as to Tom's true nature) It is hinted that Slughorn was becoming more and more uncomfortable with the conversation he was having with Riddle about how to create a Horcrux. I also believe the fact that Riddle had to ask Sughorn about Horcruxes proves that few really know very much about them. It is a very dark magic and there was no information on them in the library when Hermione looked, being a banned subject. I think Slughorn is probably a bit of an expert on them, he has the personality and intellect for that to be the case, though he himself would never think to create one.
3) There was the easy-to-overlook mention that Dumbledore specifially wore the ring when he went to visit Slughorn. He had already destroyed the Horcrux by then because the ring was already cracked, so why wear it? Slughorn noticed Dumbledores hand and commented 'Reactions not as quick as they used to be?' Why even have all of this if it wasn't to hint Slughorns affinity with Horcruxes.
I am guessing Slughorn knows about the Horcruxes existance at the very least. How much he knows about them we will find out in the next book. He said in the Heads office when they were discussing whether to keep the school open or not after the death of Dumbledore 'Will we have a single pupil after this? ... I dont think we're in any more danger at Hogwarts than we are anywhere else...' That definately leaves the impression he has already chosen to stay on himself. Otherwise it would have been natural for him to say 'You...' not 'we'.
I also think Jk made him a potions master because she needs him for book 7, if she had made him DADA he would not be there still and Snape would. Slughorn will be a source of information on the Horcruxes in someway to Harry, possibly he will be able to help Harry destroy them as he discovers them?? Dont know, but he will be important I think.
1) Just as you mentioned, he changed his own memory of telling Tom Riddle about the Horcruxes. I think he would have done this after he realized Voldemort had succeeded in making himself immortal, which would probably mean he did it some time between Vapourmort (when the AK on Harry backfired) and GoF when Voldemort 'resurrected' himself.
2) Slughorn was obviously ashamed at having told Voldemort how to achieve immortality once he realized what Voldemort was doing. He went to great lengths to prevent Dumbledore from obtaining his true recollection of the night Tom Riddle asked him about them. (I have no doubt that when Slughorn was telling Tom about Horcruxes, he did not have any idea as to Tom's true nature) It is hinted that Slughorn was becoming more and more uncomfortable with the conversation he was having with Riddle about how to create a Horcrux. I also believe the fact that Riddle had to ask Sughorn about Horcruxes proves that few really know very much about them. It is a very dark magic and there was no information on them in the library when Hermione looked, being a banned subject. I think Slughorn is probably a bit of an expert on them, he has the personality and intellect for that to be the case, though he himself would never think to create one.
3) There was the easy-to-overlook mention that Dumbledore specifially wore the ring when he went to visit Slughorn. He had already destroyed the Horcrux by then because the ring was already cracked, so why wear it? Slughorn noticed Dumbledores hand and commented 'Reactions not as quick as they used to be?' Why even have all of this if it wasn't to hint Slughorns affinity with Horcruxes.
I am guessing Slughorn knows about the Horcruxes existance at the very least. How much he knows about them we will find out in the next book. He said in the Heads office when they were discussing whether to keep the school open or not after the death of Dumbledore 'Will we have a single pupil after this? ... I dont think we're in any more danger at Hogwarts than we are anywhere else...' That definately leaves the impression he has already chosen to stay on himself. Otherwise it would have been natural for him to say 'You...' not 'we'.
I also think Jk made him a potions master because she needs him for book 7, if she had made him DADA he would not be there still and Snape would. Slughorn will be a source of information on the Horcruxes in someway to Harry, possibly he will be able to help Harry destroy them as he discovers them?? Dont know, but he will be important I think.
I think the only reason Slughorn didnt tell Dumbledore / Show Dumbledore the memory is because he is ashamed. He is an ashamed embarresed little concieted man who assisted the darkest wizard of the age. I do not have anything against Slughorn because I think he was a great charecter but he is a bit concieted and needed to pull his head in
| QUOTE (razzberry2 @ Aug 18 2005, 06:20 AM) |
| 3) There was the easy-to-overlook mention that Dumbledore specifially wore the ring when he went to visit Slughorn. He had already destroyed the Horcrux by then because the ring was already cracked, so why wear it? Slughorn noticed Dumbledores hand and commented 'Reactions not as quick as they used to be?' Why even have all of this if it wasn't to hint Slughorns affinity with Horcruxes. |
I completely agree with your post, Razberry! Your point #3 is something I've been thinking about. Slughorn obviously knows that Voldemort is using Horcruxes--I doubt that he has any concrete evidence of this. He simply put 2 and 2 together, knowing the young Voldemort was interested in them, followed by Voldemort's recent return to life.
But the fact that Slughorn recognizes the Peverell ring--and the Dumbledore knew he would!--is passing strange. It means that Slughorn has more than simply guessed that at Voldemort's use of horcruxes. It means he actually knew precisely the object Voldemort chose to use for one of his horcruxes. This either means that Slughorn has himself done quite a bit of investigatory work, or--more likely in my opinion--that Dumbledore had taken Slughorn much more deeply into his confidence than is let on. In fact, it seems none of the other members of the Order of the Phoenix know about the horcruxes, and yet Dumbledore must have shared with Slughorn a great amount of detail in order for that flash of the ring to register.
I think this has fairly large implications for how important Slughorn may be in book 7, given that he apparently knew much, if not all, that Dumbledore did about the specific items made into horcruxes.
I was just thinking... regardless of whether Voldemort made the ring into a horcrux or not while he was at school, he did obtain the ring while he was at school. Evidence shows that Voldemort was quite close to Slughorn during his school years, meaning that Slughorn might have seen Voldemort with the ring at that time. Even if Slughorn had no previous idea that Voldemort had made the ring into a horcrux, seeing Dumbledore with it would have certainly struck a chord and probably made him realise what had happened.
You're right Meggie, I've been saying the same thing...though not about Slughorn remembering it. Maybe he just remembered Voldemort/Tom Riddle wearing it in the room...Dumbledore showed him so he could remember his past. I like your idea more!
I too agree with Meggie ... I'm yet to be convinced that DD was actually exchanging information with Sughorn. Ultimately it doesn't make sense because it seems DD wore the ring so that Slughorn would recognize it. And on Slughorns meeting with DD, we are definitley given the impression that they have not seen each other for some time.
Slughorn is the only other character in HBP who seems to have any information on Horcruxes, and the fact that Tom Riddle approached him openly about it many years before suggests that he is some sort of authority on them. Slughorns apparent shame of telling Voldemort how to create a Horcrux also seems to be a dead giveaway to his knowledge of the situation.
Slughorn is the only other character in HBP who seems to have any information on Horcruxes, and the fact that Tom Riddle approached him openly about it many years before suggests that he is some sort of authority on them. Slughorns apparent shame of telling Voldemort how to create a Horcrux also seems to be a dead giveaway to his knowledge of the situation.
I agree that slughorn knew what dd wanted as soon as he saw the ring. however, my concern lies with slughorn's knowledge of horcruxes. How did LV know to ask slughorn, the potions master, why not ask the DADA teacher. how did lv even know the term horcrux? THis part baffled me a bit.
Yeah, I didn't understand either about where Voldemort learned the word Horcrux from. Maybe he found out the same way Hermione did and thought it best to ask somebody. That somebody happened to be Slughorn. However, how would Riddle be so confident that Slughorn had even heard the word or knew about them? He could have asked anybody about them....I don't know...maybe he heard the teachers casually talking about them (casually talking about Horcruxes?). He did know his stuff though, he knew about Merrythought retiring when nobody (at least a student) didn't know.
I imagine that Voldemort knew about horcruxes because he was extremely interested in the dark arts and probably came across a vague description of them somewhere in his studies. As he was still at Hogwarts, though, he probably ran into the same problem that Harry did: horcruxes are a banned subject, so the most any book says of them is that they are the darkest of magic. So, he had to ask some one. My guess is that he asked Slughorn for two reasons. First of all, Slughorn is intelligent. Whatever faults he has, they do not change the fact that he is quite knowledgeable on a number of subjects. This being said, I think that the other reason that Voldemort would ask Slughorn is that he knew he could be bribed to answer. Slughorn saw Voldemort as a smart student with a bright future, and never would have dreamed that he would use his knowledge wrongly. And he just couldn't say no to a box of crystallized pineapple.
Sorry if this is slightly off-topic but I quite liked Slughorn's manner and honesty in the true memory.
He was very calm about the question, obviously not suspecting Tom for a murderer, and was quite frank about what Horcruxes were.
If other teachers had the same respect for their pupils I can't help thinking less would have gone off the rails...
He was very calm about the question, obviously not suspecting Tom for a murderer, and was quite frank about what Horcruxes were.
If other teachers had the same respect for their pupils I can't help thinking less would have gone off the rails...
I agree with you there, Darth Oz. In any other situation, Slughorn would have been going about things exactly right by being honest and respectful toward his students. It's just that he was dealing with Voldemort, so it changed things a bit. And really, Voldemort would have found out what he wanted to know whether Sluggy told him or not, so I really don't think we can blame Slughorn.
I think DD was lucky that it was Slughorn and not some dark-magic wizard who told Riddle about the horcruxes, otherwise he couldn’t find out how many of them were around. I doubt a grown-up Riddle would have ever mentioned something about how many HX he was intending to make to any other person. His lake of experience (being only 16 years old) made DD find this out. 
As Dumbledore said later though, I think Tom already knew what Horcruxes were - he just needed the incantation, methodology and his thoughts on the power of seven.
He undoubtedly went straight to Slughorn over Merrythought because he knew that his vanity could be bought with a few compliments. Harry himself thought he was a master of pursuasion.
He undoubtedly went straight to Slughorn over Merrythought because he knew that his vanity could be bought with a few compliments. Harry himself thought he was a master of pursuasion.
This post was written by HP number one Fan and moved here.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont know if this topic has been discussed already but one question the has been on my mind is does Slughorn know about Voldemorts Horcruxes? After all is practically resoposnsible for Voldemort knowing what they where. He was forbidden from telling LV about them but he gave in so easily. Maybe its his fault Voldemort is as powerful as he is. What else dont we know about Horace Slughorn? He my have told Voldemort all he know about powerful spell and creatures. If he let slip the content of a Horcrux then what makes us think he hasnt told LV about other dangerous and dark artifacts and curses!?
He was so hesitant to show his memory to Harry and Dumbledore Harry had to get him drunk before he retreved the memory. He must be a very important character for JKR to introduce him to us now. And it is most likely that he will stay at hogwarts but we wont really know what happens to him unless hary returns to Hogwarts and it is obvious he will. But Slughorn help him to distroy the horcruxes or will he turn agaist him now Dumbledore's gone Im guessing his true colours will show within time. Tell me what you think guys?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont know if this topic has been discussed already but one question the has been on my mind is does Slughorn know about Voldemorts Horcruxes? After all is practically resoposnsible for Voldemort knowing what they where. He was forbidden from telling LV about them but he gave in so easily. Maybe its his fault Voldemort is as powerful as he is. What else dont we know about Horace Slughorn? He my have told Voldemort all he know about powerful spell and creatures. If he let slip the content of a Horcrux then what makes us think he hasnt told LV about other dangerous and dark artifacts and curses!?
He was so hesitant to show his memory to Harry and Dumbledore Harry had to get him drunk before he retreved the memory. He must be a very important character for JKR to introduce him to us now. And it is most likely that he will stay at hogwarts but we wont really know what happens to him unless hary returns to Hogwarts and it is obvious he will. But Slughorn help him to distroy the horcruxes or will he turn agaist him now Dumbledore's gone Im guessing his true colours will show within time. Tell me what you think guys?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After all is practically resoposnsible for Voldemort knowing what they where. He was forbidden from telling LV about them but he gave in so easily. Maybe its his fault Voldemort is as powerful as he is. What else dont we know about Horace Slughorn? He my have told Voldemort all he know about powerful spell and creatures. If he let slip the content of a Horcrux then what makes us think he hasnt told LV about other dangerous and dark artifacts and curses!?
He was so hesitant to show his memory to Harry and Dumbledore Harry had to get him drunk before he retreved the memory. He must be a very important character for JKR to introduce him to us now. And it is most likely that he will stay at hogwarts but we wont really know what happens to him unless hary returns to Hogwarts and it is obvious he will. But Slughorn help him to distroy the horcruxes or will he turn agaist him now Dumbledore's gone Im guessing his true colours will show within time.
He was so hesitant to show his memory to Harry and Dumbledore Harry had to get him drunk before he retreved the memory. He must be a very important character for JKR to introduce him to us now. And it is most likely that he will stay at hogwarts but we wont really know what happens to him unless hary returns to Hogwarts and it is obvious he will. But Slughorn help him to distroy the horcruxes or will he turn agaist him now Dumbledore's gone Im guessing his true colours will show within time.
Hey soul jacker you moved my topic lol I just realised oops
Hiya HP number one fan!
Could you please drop by the forum rules? You will find a link to then in my sig. Double posts are not allowed. Neither are one-liners. If you want to add something to a post you've made, simply hit the 'edit' button on the top right corner of that post and then modify it. And please elaborate more in the future, as one-liners don't add much to the discussion.
If you need anything, Mods and Prefects are here to help. Simply PM one of us.
Cheers
Could you please drop by the forum rules? You will find a link to then in my sig. Double posts are not allowed. Neither are one-liners. If you want to add something to a post you've made, simply hit the 'edit' button on the top right corner of that post and then modify it. And please elaborate more in the future, as one-liners don't add much to the discussion.
If you need anything, Mods and Prefects are here to help. Simply PM one of us.
Cheers
He was so hesitant to show his memory to Harry and Dumbledore Harry had to get him drunk before he retreved the memory. He must be a very important character for JKR to introduce him to us now. And it is most likely that he will stay at hogwarts but we wont really know what happens to him unless hary returns to Hogwarts and it is obvious he will. But Slughorn help him to distroy the horcruxes or will he turn agaist him now Dumbledore's gone Im guessing his true colours will show within time.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.