thats pretty true, i guess he would only use the way of communication that was used before.

nice theory, by the way, but i think its a slight chance it might happen.
sorry!
but it might.

The reason Harry didn't use the two-way mirror in OOTP is because he forgot he had it. He also thought to himself that he wouldn't use it and risk Sirius getting recognised again.

I think harry forgot about it because of everything that was going on at Hogwarts. He only realised he had it after what happened at the ministry and was looking through his trunk.

This is what i remember anyway, I dont have my copy of OOTP to check...

~Ashes

I do believe that Sirius Black May come into the story again. Why? Well I have proof. J.K. Rowling herself has said many time that shae derives her info from the Celtic culture. Well, Sirius' Animagus form is a dog, and dog stands for Celtic meaning "You have a well developed imagination, like to make the first move and are passionate about your causes. You have an innate sensitivity to the spiritual side of life and can be linked to the magical and mystical side of existence." and also this "The Dog is also associated with this time and symbolises true loyalty, it was a title of honour for Celtic Chieftains." That is all.

M.A.

The two way mirrors were given to Harry by Sirius, used for communication purposes, Sirius had ine and Harry had the other. The Mirror of Erised was used to show peoples desires. But I think that somehow Harry will be able to communicate with Sirius through the two way mirror. As for the Mirror of Erised I think that Harry might be able to find out what Horcruxes are using it, but if it does come into play in HPDH it won't be until late in the book.

I noticed two new threads on Sirius mirror today, which we don't need, so I've merged all the posts together into this thread and I'm going to pin it, seeing as how it's a topic that keeps cropping up.

Thank you,

It seems an interesting and VERY important topic, yet as far as I have seen hasnt been discussed to the length it should be. Perhaps it now being pinned will open up new lines of inquiry and we may actually scratch the surface a bit before July 21st. Then again, we may never know the secrets of the Veil.

~Albus

what would happen if someone threw something into the veil
not a human but an object such as Sirius's mirror and sirius
found the mirror. Now since harry broke his all he would have
to do is use reparo on it and wait and see. If Sirius found the
mirror and me was some sort of spirit could he use it as a portal
or something. And just adding on if he did this could he stay alive
as a ghost

i think the two way mirror will show another role in the books its not played its part fully yet... maybe there a gateway that can link the connections into the mirrors i dont know.. but i dont think weve seen the last of the mirrors..



........Dan

Maybe sirius will be able to communicate with harry..when i think he will be in a sort of a spirit form.. and he will advise harry wat 2 do

MOD EDIT : Please be careful not to use netspeak - it's not allowed on the forums. Please check the rules.

Nick said that Sirius won`t become spirit. he said that Sirius will move on.
But why Harry connects That mirror and Mirror Erised ? Do they have something more in common except that they both are magic mirrors? or he simply connects that because of his lack of knowledge?

I'm not sure. Does anyone acutally know of a time that Harry makes a connection between his two-way mirror and the Mirrow of Erised.

Another question I have is, where is the other one? If, (going on a different topic for a sec.), James did actually know what was going to happen and that is the reason he left his invisibility cloak in Dumbledore's possession, then what of the mirror. Sirius said, in the note he left with the mirror, that he and James used to use it to communicated if they were in separate classes or detentions. That would mean that James had the other. Where is it now, and why wasn't it turned over to Dumbledore?

Another thing I wonder about is, how the mirror will come up in the last book. I suppose Harry might remember it, and mention it to Hermione and Ron. That seems the only way it could come into play, after all, Harry didn't tell them about yet, and it's now broken.

Also, about the Mirror of Erised. Someone said that Harry will look to it, to have it help him in his quest for the remaining horcruxes. If you'll consider some passages in the Philosopher's Stone, you'll find that the Mirror can be charmed and spelled. In the last few chapters of PS, Harry gets the Philosopher's Stone because he only wanted to find it, not use it, as told by Dumbledore. DD also mentions that this was because of one of his charms or ideas. That being said, I wonder how it can help him with the remaining horcruxes just by heeding to Harry's deepest, innermost desire to defeat the Dark Lord. Harry got the stone because DD made it so. We know that Dumbledore has been searching for horcruxes for a very long time, as he tells Harry in HBP, but dumbldore only has his speculations and suspicions of what they might be or where. Therefore, Harry cannot get the Horcruxes or information about them from the mirror, if no one, but Lord Voldemort knows what they are and where they reside. The Mirror cannot be made to find or present them, without the knowledge having been given to it by something or someone else. Could I be right? Does that make sense?

OK, do we know for sure from canon that "Reparo" works on magical items? If the physical mirror is restored, will its magical capacity be restored? I cannot right now remember an incident of something with magical properties being repaired that way, but.....

I find it interesting that Sirius say to use it "if you need me" (specifically he mentions in case Snape is abusive with him during lessons), and that is what Harry remembers when he sees the mirror in his trunk--use this if you need me. We also have the phrase "just in case" repeated twice regarding the invisibility cloak. Something that affords visibility and something that affords invisibility, referred to in parallel ways, twice each. Interesting.

Harry's first thought when the mirror fails to communicate with Sirius is that "Sirius didn't have the mirror on him when he went through the curtain". So, that means that in Harry's mind at least the mirror COULD work IF there was one on the other side of the Veil. And shortly afterward Luna tells him that of course he'll see Sirius again because he's just on the other side of the Veil. So I'm thinking that when he packs, he will see it again and get the idea to fling one onto the other side of the Veil. Another reason, besides the Locket, to go back to Grimauld.

In between shattering the mirror and encountering Luna's reassuring words, Harry goes and finds Nick. Nick, interestingly, is quite uncomfortable and seemingly unwilling to talk to Harry about these things. Nick is no coward, of that we have been made sure. So it is not fear that makes him uncomfortable. Is it that he knows he cannot give Harry the news he is sure Harry wants, that Sirius will be a ghost? Is there some other reason? Nick speeds off to a feast he cannot partake in rather than explaining more about death to Harry. He knew Harry would ask him, and does not really want to talk about it. What does Nick know or not know? He does not know what death is like, for he is neither here nor there, but says that it is studied in the DoM. This upsets Harry, and we know why--because he has lost him godfather to the very instrument they use in the MoM to study the issue.

Now, JKR got rid of Sirius to limit the amount of help Harry will have in DH. So I don't expect the mirror to provide more than a moment's reassuring connection to Sirius, if anything at all.

One interesting side note. Luna is convinced her mother is on the other side of the Veil. But her mother does not seem to have died in that room. So Luna is convinced that all the dead of the people on this side of the Veil are over there. So Harry could even, perhaps, connect with his folks through that mirror, if they are not user-specific. Harry may have to fling Sirius's own mirror for Sirius to use, but who knows.

i at 1st thought that Harry would talk 2 Sirius right then and there. but since he didn't i was really dissapointed that it didn't happen....but as Dumbledore said in Harry's 4th year, "no spell can re-awaken the dead Harry, I trust you know that." i believe that, though i sometimes don't ever want 2. but i think that since Sirius did say," that the ones that love us never really leave us, we can always find them in our hearts," that Harry might well die in the 7th book....or Hermione and Harry both. I don't know why, but that's what i think.....but yeah, i don't think Harry has a chance 2 talk 2 Sirius or his parents again while he's alive, cuz if it didn't happen already, why would it happen at all? that's what i think anyways....and sometimes i wish my mind was thinking something else that people could acually understand...sorry if you didn't understand what i'm saying... .....

I think that Harry will go back to Grimauld because of the other mirror and than remember the locket!


Whan he saw the mirror first thing he remembered is the Mirror of Erised.
After that he started to call Sirius in mirror.

And about Nick, he didn`t want to talk about death, but he said that Sirius certainly will not be ghost.

If the mirror didn't actually break or can be repared, maybe Harry, Ron and Hermione will go back to Grimmuald Palace for some reason or the other and come across the other mirror. This means that they could contact each other easily without owls or anything if they are in different places.

This might not be at all fesable, but when Luna was said to believe that all the dead went behind that mirror, wouldnt LV be included? or would he just be destroyed? If he did die and went behind the mirror than maybe if Harry is going to talk to anyone about the horocruxes, then maybe somehow it would be LV??? i am not sure that LV would give him any good advice but maybe something could slip to let him know a clue about where one is.

That might have worked if Voldemort was dead but as he's not I'm not so sure, I guess it kind of rests on what happens to the soul after a horcrux is destroyed; does it return to the soul in the owner's body or does itgo behind the veil? If it does then does the soul have any knowledge? If it does then is this the knowledge the person had at the time the muder was committed and the soul was originally split, the knowledge at the time the soul was placed in an object and the horcrux was created, the knowledge at the time the horcrux was destroyed or the knowledge at the present time?

As Albus and others have said in other threads, the evidence of the diary suggests that the horcrux in an object is some state of the soul of its owner at the age the horcrux was created.

I agree with this, and here's why: We know the diary horcrux was designed to be a weapon (to reopen the Chamber of Secrets when the moment was right) as well as a horcrux. To serve the weapon role, it is not necessary that the Tom Riddle in the diary remain young--indeed, there would be advantages to a maturer LV soul being released within Hogwarts. So from the fact that Riddle was 17 and not older (which would have been better qua weapon), it makes sense that the horcrux portion of soul just could not age.

Anyhow, I think the idea of LV using the mirror to talk to Harry and somehow give away horcrux details is a bit farfetched. It just seems like the mirror is more likely to function as an emotional release than anything else. Harry is not supposed to have a lot of help in DH, in terms of his mission.

I'm thinking that if James had gone into hiding, away from his best friend Sirius, James probably had his original mirror with him and would have been using it to communicate with Sirius. This raises the interesting possibility of there being three mirrors and Harry getting to talk to James as well as Sirius, if the region behind the Veil includes ALL the dead, and not only those who died BY going through the Veil.

Sirius fall int the Veil and died. there was no body left. He could have mirror with him in MoM. And Mirror fall along with Sirius` body.

And James`body exist(ed). He was buried (we know that Avada Kedavra kills but doesn`t destroy body.).If there was a third mirror he couldn`t "bring" the mirror along.

But is interesting that, if there is only two mirrors, James didn`t have the second mirror when he had gone into hiding. otherwise why Sirius had both mirrors.

this is a frustrating conundrum i plan therefor to go over all my details and books and take every thing i know and compile a long report on the subject

I think the mirrors will be used in the final book, but I think that they will be used between Harry, Ron and Hermione. I think that in the new book they will all have to work together to destroy the horcruxes and will need a quick way to communicate with one another, the mirrors would work really well for this.

I think Sirius is dead, when I read the scene in the OOTP, it felt to me as if the veil is like the wizard version of the death penalty, instead of the gas chamber of the electic chair, you are thrown through the veil. A punishment reserved for wizards too evil to go to Azkaban. Or perhaps the death penalty was outlawed and that is why the veil was being stored in the department of mysteries?

JKR has said the Chamber of Death, which is where the Veil is, was not and has never been an execution room; it is there for study.

Ah yes i was wondering when this would become a pinned topic. it has been a good one since it was created.

I will just post my thoughts and then take it from there (sorry if you have heard them before!)

So, sirius gives harry a mirror that works like a walkie talkie if you will. whenever harry would need sirius, all he would have to do is call out sirius' name, and viola, he would be there. Unfortunately, sirius dies shortly after he gave it to harry (sirius fell through the veil). So, does it still work? that is the question.

When harry used the mirror at the end of the book, nothing happened, and in his frustration he thew the mirror and broke it (7 years bad luck harry! haha). I would have to go back and check but i dont think that he even bothered to repair it, OR even pack it up when he left. Is harry even in possesion of the mirror now? I will check in the morning...

Also, the first thing harry thinks of is "sirius just doesnt have the mirror with him." No harry, that is wrong. I believe that the mirror was something of a prized possesion of sirius'. it was small enough to fit in a pocket, so sirius could have it on him 24/7/365. Sirius so strongly wanted that connection with harry that he would carry it with him at all times something like the cliche of a loved one giving a necklace to another loved one. they never take it off. this mirror gave sirius a special bond with harry, and enabled him to talk to harry whenever harry needed him. i believe that sirius was desperately trying to get james back (though harry. it is sirius' character in OOTP. Molly even calls him out on it). Saying this, there is no way that sirius would EVER part with that mirror. Sirius most definately had the mirror when he fell through the veil.

Will it come up again? Most likely.when JKR mentions things more than once, it tends to be important.

Also, someone brought up the whole "just reparo it." And someone asked if you can repair magical items. The only thing that i can think of is when harry's Nimbus was destroyed in the womping willow. why didnt they just reparo that? because the broom was magical... so i believe that the magic could not just be repaired and restored... so if harry did manage to reparo the mirror i dont even think it would work properly... But i could be wrong and if the mirror works fine, then will sirius ever answer on the other end? i think maybe... i believe the "after life" in the harry potter universe is just like another dimension that is just as real as this one. but that is another theory haha! we will definately hear from sirius again, somehow, someway

Yes the pieces were wrapped in, what else, a sock in his trunk.
And, for accuracy, Sirius gave Harry the mirror in September, Harry doesn't break it till June. He just never used it. I think that was because he'd put it out of his mind because he didnt want to do anything that would get Sirius in trouble by making him want to leave the house, least that's what he says to himself once he opened it at Hogwarts initially. Ironic.



That was me--the Nimbus is a good test case, thanks--so maybe he cannot repair it or at least not fully. But the mirror is a little less complicated, perhaps, than the Nimbus? I'm guessing that DD's items that Harry smashes get fixed at some point? Maybe it's just not a simple reparo.

I really like what you say about the fact that Sirius would indeed keep such a small and significant item with him. I do think he has it over there behind the veil with him.

Also, it is possible that passage to the afterlife takes some time--Harry may try the mirror too soon after Sirius's falling through the Veil for him to be able to communicate. In various mythologies, it is not an instantaneous transition. DD's portait in the headmaster's office appears, but he is slumbering. Maybe it takes time to get your wits about you on the other side (not that portaits are the people, tho...just symbolic, perhaps).

i most definitly think this is something extremely important to DH.

but i dont think it will be used to communicate with sirius, becuase clearly there is no way for him to get it. but i have heard/read about someone chucking the mirror through the veil for sirius to get it. is that even possible?!?

but i guess that can't really be answered 100% sure because we dont know what lies behind that veil for sure.

and how would he repair it anyway?

i still think it will somehow get sorted out and make sense and add to the drama and goodness of deahtly hallows.

=]

JKR has said that anything we have in the muggle world, they can have in the wizarding world, but usually it's a bit out of date. She gave the example of the Wizarding Wireless Network (WWN) matching BBC radio, but no BBC TV.

Another missing technology is telephones. In many ways owls work better, so I can see why they don't have the equivalent of cell/satelite phones, but Hermione's coins, and Sirius' mirror give instant communications, which could become important in the final battle.

Given time, I would expect Hermione to take the mirrors concept and develop a worldwide picture-phone network using the underlying principle. All she has to do is add person-to-person dialing. Shouldn't be too hard.

Thus, if she lives, she can be expected to become the wealthiest witch in the world.

I don't think the mirror will come up in HP7. It wasn't mentioned in the Half-Blood Prince so i don't really see why JKR would bring it up again 2 years later... seems a bit odd .. but she could ? Maybe it could show Sirius again.. I really don't know

I thought Harry broke it. Im not saying that he couldnt be it together with a simple spell but they dont mention it after that

Emphasis my own.

good point. a simple reparo probably wouldnt work, and yet DD managed to fix all those instruments that were probably magical. so if harry is desperate enough to get it fixed, then he will get it fixed.



i do believe it will come up again. JKR doesnt mention something like this, twice as a matter of fact, and then let it go to the side. the mirror represents harrys last chance to talk to the closest thing to a family harry has. he will most definately at least see it again

JKRs coy comments about the mirror suggest that it remains a bit relevant. That could be a red herring, but we do know there is at least one more mirror like it, possiby two. If both others were found the trio would be well equipped, tho I dont know if that is the best use of it for the story. She said no comment when asked if it would be used to talk to Regulus Black, so......that could just mean she didnt want to say anything lest she give away what use it might actually be, or not be.

It's interesting, that while they may study death in the chamber where the veil is, it may also be that no one has gone over there before with a little walkie talkie mirror in his pocket, as Sirius may have.

the viel was in the chamber of death were they were studying... well i assume "Death" but how they were doing it with the viel, i have no clue. i mean, there was nothing to study! the body vanishes... to where? i dont know. do they know? maybe... but the only way i can see them even knowing is if they sent someone volunarilly through the viel. And i am sure that they had some way to communicate in there... or at least they thought they did... so i am pretty sure they "studied" it with some sort of walkie talkie. would sirius' mirror have worked? i dont know.

(random question that doesnt have to be answered... if the DOM sent people through the viel to study "death," did they come back to report their findings???? i.e. sirius can come back????)

I've been wondering that too. I think that whomever it is studying in the Death Chamber at the DOM is probably there studying in groups,so as to have a witness or "spotter". I also think they may use some kind of spell or charm that will allow them to come back through the veil. Perhaps a potion? A cloak? Magic rope? There couldbe a number of things. But if there was, indeed, a need for some kind of spell to be cast then there might not be hope for Sirius. I don't want that to be true! I would love for Harry to be able to see him again. Let's keep our fingers crossed, shall we?

Cheers~*

I'm guessing that studying the dead through the Veil has to do with the voices that are audible on the other side, some form of zeroing in on what is being said. Everyone is very certain that Sirius cannot come back across that arch, which suggests it is one-way to another dimension. No one has suggested anything for a whole year about getting him back, or even the nature of the arch as far as I know.

So if there is anything, I'm thinking its communication. And it may not even be the mirror, as much as the mirror suggesting to Harry that there might be odd ways of communicating with someone.

sirsus gave harry the mirror so he could have been there when the potters died

Sirius's explanation of the events of that night sounds pretty convincing--persuading James and Lily a week before to use Peter as the secret-keeper, but pretending it was him so that LV would come after him, the "bluff" move. He says he went to check on Peter, found him gone without a struggle, found it odd, and went to James and Lily's house.

Why did he take the motorcycle instead of apparating? Dunno. It came in handy for Hagrid tho.

It's possible he took the mirror from James's body, and that's the one he gave Harry. But having made one once, he just as easily could have made another set for Harry.

So I don't think he was there that night, until later as he said.

I finally understand why Sirius thought Lupin was the traitor--Sirius underestimated Pettigrew, which is why he thought LV would. So that only left Lupin, and Lupin had had a thing for Lily, so there was motive, perhaps, as far as Sirius could know. Ah...

about the mirror, i think it will play a part in the upcoming book, it would be kind of useless if it didn't and in JK's novel nothing is put there by chance.

speaking of the voices from behind the veil, did anyone else notice that only Harry and Luna can hear them, at least the only ones from the pople in the room, just like only they can see the Thestrals (and Neville too, but i don't recall if he can hear the voices or not, maybe he was just further away from the veil)? i think this is odd.

This is totally random but what if the mirrir somehow helps him overcome voldie? Possibly he could use it to deflect his spells in a final duel they have. If harry is disarmed, then he could be feeling round randomly for anything to help him stay alive. He could pick up the mirror, and use it to deflect avada kedavra, and voldie could finally R.I.P. So maybe it play that kind of role in the story?

seeming how harry broke it by just throwing it, i doubt it would be able to handle much of any curse that voldemort would throw at him. putting it in muggle/today terms, that would be like saying: "hey i wonder if this cell phone will help me stop the man with the gun"

I think that the mirror might come up again but I dont think so, because in OoTP Harry smashed the mirror in anger when Sirius died. And I dont think that Sirius had the mirror with him so that he could use it, but he cant use it because he is dead.

I think that the mirror will have some importance in Deathly Hallows. Even though Harry smashed it I think that it will somehow show up in book 7.
I just think that maybe Harry will be looking through his things and find it ( if he didn't throw it away) and try to fix it or something who knows maybe he can't fix it.

Annie
I think the mirror has a deeper meaning, even though it shatered, i feel that JKR will mention it, and it will have some significance in the 7th book.

I agree: I'm pretty sure it will come up in book seven, and Harry will have found a way to repare it, though I don't think it's the miror of irise (oh, **** I don't know how to spell it!) 'cos it shows what you want most NOT the truth, and as sirius told harry, these twin mirrors are used to communicate not to see what you want most so...

But Harry will surely use it... maybe to communicate with Ron or Hermione at some point if he finds the twin mirror (the one sirius had in his possession).

Well, we'll see..

to be honest i think the idea of harry communicating with sirius after his death isnt going to happen because of the fact that at the end of OotP when harry was packing his stuff he tried saying 'Sirius' and it didnt work, that's why he smashed it.

I have no idea as to what the significane may be though

I remember vagley that after Harry opened the package after Sirius died and found out that it was the two way mirrior he threw it and it broke. Maybe I'm remembering wrong but I think the two way mirror is out of question.

there have been a lot of theories about "the mirror" and I'd like to distill my thoughts on them here as that I believe it will be used in book seven, but not with sirius.

Sirius is dead, not coming back, just as DD isn't coming back from his death. The mirror will be used some other way, eventhough Harry smashed it. Can you say "Reparo"?

Between Harry and
Ron
Hermoine
Remus

I don't know, but I have a feeling

Here's what I think:

I think that Sirius did have the mirror when he fell through the veil, but he's dead and so cannot communicate with Harry anymore. I know that Harry has shatter his own mirror, and unless they find a way to go through that veil and come back that he won't be finding the other. However, I believe the unbelievably, incredibly intelligent Hermione Granger will possibly find a way to create another one. Harry's mirror can be easily repaired if he did not dispose of it. If he did, then back to what I said about Hermione. Assuming the mirror is significant to the final installment, Harry will remember it, but I seriously doubt it will be used to communicate with Sirius. Most likely, the trio will be using them to communicate if they should be split up, in my opinion.

ITS A HORCRUX!!!! I thought everyone knew that!!!

thecortni - i like your thought about how the big three could use them to communicate when they are split. I think Hermoine and Ron will spend some time at Hogwarts this year, but will help Harry. Harry isn't going back to Hogwarts as a student, that seems pretty clear. Communication is important. The mirrors seem like the safest form of com seeing as most other forms can be easily watched, as we found out during the Ministry clampdown in the fifth year.

I have a current theory that Harry will find a way through the veil without suffering death. I think the mirror will have something to do with it. It could be to communicate with Ron and Hermoine on the outside of the veil to help him within it. We have not seen the last of the Death Chamber...and of the mirrors

Weasley King - I definitely feel we haven't heard the last of the Death Chamber and the mirrors, I just wish there were more evidence that could help us piece it all together. Then again, I don't any of us would actually like to solidly solve all the mysteries before reading that would take the fun out it. I just wish there was more in the books about the mirrors. It's funny how when something seems so crucial to the story, JKR would tease us by keeping it for the end.

remember in book five when a bowl with that sap stuff broke and hermione fixed it but the sap could not be replaced what if the mirror is the same way.
Maybe harry can fix it but won't be able to recover what was inside it or what it contained that is if it contained anything at all.
If it is a horcrux then maybe when harry broke it then the horcrux was destroyed. that would bet too easy I know but it is just a thought
but I don't think that the mirror is a horcrux but who knows...