uhm ok.. it's been a long while since i posted here as well, i was just wondering something. how come you're asking why sirius died by just falling into the veil? it's been a while since i last read the book (but i did read it several times), and i was under the impression that sirius got hit with a curse and Then he fell into the veil.. mayb im wrong and my memory isn't working right but i really really thought he died before he fell into the veil.

i also think the mirror(s) will be used in the last book but that sirius won't have anything to do with it. i really believe that he is actually, dead.

that's because he was hit with a RED curse, not a GREEN one, like the Avada Kedavra. we were discussing on another thread (Does the reducto curse kill) whether or not there are other curses that may kill, and the conclusion was NO. and i don't think thats JKR's mistake, because she would have rectified that till now (OOTP has been out for a few good years). so he was not dead when he fell through the veil (that's what we think anyway, and we need to be ABSOLUTELY SURE HOW HE DIED in order to belive we will not see Sirius again).

oh ok i get it. uhm, but if you guys concluded that there isn't another curse that can kill aside from avada kedavra then how come pettigrew killed all those people with one curse remember?..when sirius got sent to azkaban..just a thought

if the mirror was never used in book 6, than it'll definately apear in book 7. because i don't think JKR would introduce a knew kind of gimmic right at the end of a book and never show it again.

it does not seem necessary to point the wand AT those people to kill them. the cover story was a "gas pipe explosion", or something like that. maybe Peter just caused something to explode (like the gas pipe), or cut loose some electricity wires after blasting a hydrand, which would have electrified the water and cause people to get seriously hurt or die. ofcourse, these are just examples. the main ideea is that he could have caused a catastrophy, and THAT killed the 12 people, not Peter himself.

I agree.... I think I remember reading POA--not sure where-- that it was the blast from the spell that killed those people.

As far as a spell for killing other than the Avada Kedavra, I'm not sure... I'm sure a witch or wizard can die from natural causes, poisons... anything really if the victim hasn't taken any protective precautions or isn't quick on his feet. I duon't know... I guess there could be a lot of things.

Sirius got hit with a spell that had a jet of RED light not GREEN like Avada Kedavra! I doubt that there are other curses that could kill, because wouldn't it be another one of the unforgivable curses? Besides isn't the only other way a wizard could die from a spell is if they are hit with one too many spells or hit with one that is just meant to hurt but it goes too far (ex. Sectumsempra)? I'm not sure, I'm not JKR so I just can guess!

As for the mirror, I definitely think it will come up again because JKR plans things, she won't just mention something and not use it later or at least explain it!

Yes, yes. I see. If there were indeed another curse that would have been utilized only to kill then, I agree, it would be termed, "unforgivable". But then, the Cruciatus curse is only meant to cause your intended victim excruciating pain and it is unforgivable. Why, then, is the Sectumsempra curse not unforgivable?

Scratch that last... I forgot. When Harry used the Sectumsempra spell, he'd gotten it out of the Half-blood Prince's book. It wasn't Ministry-approved or termed "unforgivable" because no one aside from Snape, Harry and perhaps their victims, or some Death Eaters knew it existed.

The curse wasn't what killed Sirius, remember? He was flung through the veil. The red spell could have been anything. It doesn't really matter.

I get your point on the Sectumsemprea spell. Its a good thing no one knows about it but Snape and Harry & co.



I agree with that 100%.

in a way, i think the veil could represent eternal life so if you go through there you could not die, so sirius could come back.

(maybe he has a horcrux and could come back like voldy came back in GOF)

I still firmly believe that Sirus is dead. But as in all my posts, I'm not 100% sure of anything this woman writes! It is sooooo good. Would Sirus come back to life just to risk it to save Harry's? And if love protected Harry again, and Voldy boy was mortal, wouldn't love be the dying factor of the Wizard feard above all others?

That would def be a nice little twist!

i agree with this and prob serius will tell harry a strong spell to kill voldamort {this is just a guess}

u think that the mirror will be important and harry will use it to communicate with sirius cuz i dont think that sirius is dead!harry will remember that he has the mirror and repair it then he will be a ble to use it, but sirius didn't have the mirror when he went into the veil so i dunno how harry will communicate with him, but maybe the mirror has sum hidden clues about sumthing??what do u think?

The mirror of Erised (desire spelled backwards) showed Harry his parents, but they were not able to talk. If they were, Harry would not have sat and stared at the mirror. He would have spoken with his parents. So, Harry had a miniature mirror of Erised, it would show an image of Sirius and not Sirius himself.



Would Sirius come back? Absolutely. He would risk his life a hundred times to save Harry's. If someone else sacrificed themselves, it may or may not give Harry protection.

First, the person has to be given a choice to die or save themselves. JK said in an interview that jumping out and fighting like James was not enough. Lily's protection worked because Voldemort told her to get out of the way. He offered her the choice to save herself. I doubt Voldemort will make that mistake again.

Assuming he did, I don't think that it would give Harry protection. Lily's protection ends when Harry turns 17. I think the magic does not work for adults. I have no proof other than the fact that Lily's ends.

I think the Mirror of Erised is a strictly one of a kind thing, Sirius told Harry that he and James had got these mirrors to talk to each other when they were in seperate detentions so it sounds like the sort of thing to be found in Zonko's or Fred and George's shop rather than something as intrinsically magical as the Mirror of Erised. Or, since the two were such gifted wizards perhaps they developed the mirrors themselves.



Sirius would definately come back but as you said, they have to be given a choice, James knew he was going to die no matter what but Lily was given the chance to live. I can't see Sirius being given this chance, not least because he's Regulus' brother, if we look at past examples, Voldemort tends to kill entire families rather than allow members to live (except Lily?) so if he was given the chance then surely he would want to wipe out the Blacks, or Bellatrix would want to punish him for being a smudge on the family name.

As for whether or not Harry would be provided with protection should such a sacrifice be made, I don't think he would. Lily's protection wears of when Harry turns 17 because that's when he comes of age and is considered able and responsible to look after himself and so wouldn't need the protection of others so because he is of age and able to look after himself he wouldnt be magically provided with someone else's protection. Also, Lily's protection only held so long because Dumbledore used ancient magic to seal the protection, so presumably if, in theory, such a protection could be provided again then such magic would need to be worked again to seal the protection and with Dumbledore dead I'm wondering if anyone else knows such magic in the first place.

I really don't think the mirrors will come up again. They were sort of a way for Harry to really deal with the fact that Sirius was truely dead. If it was truely important then JK would have mentioned them in HBP
Just my opinion

Yeah I suppose so. Maybe someone will get ahold of the mirror and well comunicate with it to Harry.

i believe sirius is really dead... i know...its so sad (i wonder if anyone can travel behind the veil...other than those dead that is) anywaz, i bet the 2-way mirror will come in handy but not to talk to Sirius and not as the mirror of erised. the mirror of erised is a 1 time thing, dumbledore said in the 1st book they were doing something with it(sry cant member what he said; no HP books nearby) I have a feeling that sirius's old mirror is somewhere in the OoP's headquarters. Maybe harry will find it and give it to someone like ron or hermione and use it to keep in touch when he's off doing whatever...

Just a thought!

[size=6] i want to know where harry and lord voldemort will duel for the last time and what signifcance that harry has his mothers eyes will play in the plot.

I think that the mirrors will come back in this book. Although I don't think that he willuse them to talk to Sirius, he will use them to communicate with his friends if they ever have to split up. We don't even know of Sirius fell threw the veil with the mirror or not. So he may not even have it. He prpobably didn't think he was going to die, so at the end of the battle he would just talk to Harry in person.

It has been said, but I don't think there was any kind of way for Sirius to leave wihout that mirror. His connection to Harry was too precious to him. Granted, I harldy think he planned on his demise in the Department of Mysteries, but Sirius struck me as the type of person to always be cautious of things that might or could happen. Also, he was a marauder. He specialized in mischieve making. That coupled with the intense need and want for Harry's companionship, leads me to believe that he definitely did have that mirror as he went through the veil.

Now, I do doubt that Sirius and Harry will communicate in any form, but the mirrors are definitely making a comeback. Perhaps for the trio, or for the Order, but who knows.

I thnk the mirror Sirius gave Harry will have significance in the final book, maybe not a plot determining significance but significance nonetheless. JKR would not have even put it into the books if it didn't hold some purpose. So far it's only purpose has been that Harry should have used it instead of Umbridge's fire to talk to Sirius but there has to be more to it than that. It's in the story it must be important and make another appearance. I like to think the mirror of erised will make a comeback too for the same reason.

I'm sure the mirrors will come back into play in book 7 because JKR said that they would. I believe that Harry will be able to talk to Sirius with them. I think the reason he wasn't able to get Sirius before was because he wasn't using the correct call name. Remember Sirius said that he and James used them in detention when they were in school. I think they would have gone by their nicknames, not their given names. Harry didn't try Padfoot or Snuffles. Maybe that is what he needs to say in order to get the mirror to work. Sirius did say not to call him by his real name so that gives another clue that he wouldn't want the mirror to work with his real name but his nickname for cover reasons.

I dont think harry will use it to talk to sirrius but i think that he will use it to communicate with ron/hermione.

i disagree mikepotter, how couldd harry use them to talk with ron/hermione when sirius most likely had the other mirror with him when he fell through the veil? I do think that the mirror would probably be activated with Padfoot rather than sirius. But I also think that before Sirius died someone else of importance for DH got the mirror. Harry will somehow use it to talk to this person possiblyRAB.

harry ron and hermione will use it for when they hunt down voldemort.

Well it held no signifigance in the 6th one as you all know now. I think that alot of the stuff mentioned in previous books will come uo again. Since alot of the stuff was described and mentioned but was given no other part. So maybe the mirror could show Harry things.

Yes, yes. I agree. Things that J.K. Rowling writes that come up and then don't appear for a while usually tend to spring back up with a fiery intensity that will rock the core. So yes. I think that the mirror will definitely be making a comeback. See my earlier posts on pages 20-24.


Sorry about the earlier mistake. I've corrected it.

Well, we know from an interview with JKR that the mirrors will have a role in DH. However, during an interview, she was asked if Sirius had it with him when he went through the veil. She just gave that knowing smile and drummed her fingers. She was then asked if his brother, Regulus, had a mirror and her smile got bigger and she drummed her fingers even harder. So, is it possible that there are more than 2 mirrors and Harry will be able to communicate with not only Sirius, but also Regulus? It's quite possible from JKR's "response" to the questions.

i dont think that the mirror will play a big part. i think the veil will play a bigger part. if you read the 5th book you would have seen that harry broke the mirror. but since sirius is behind the veil i think harry will go to it and try to see sirius.

this sounds really interesting, i haven't ever thought of this topic before! okay, what my views are on the mirror sirius gave to harry are: isn't that like a communicating mirror, isn't it? & harry wanted to see if he can still talk to sirius even if he passed [order of the phoenix]. but it comes a bit handy, considering harry will therefore know that sirius is really dead.

xchristendimayx, yes, the mirrors were a form of communication that James and Sirius used when they were in detention during their days at Hogwarts. Sirius gave one to Harry. When Harry tried to use it after Sirius "died", it didn't work and Harry broke it when he threw it into his trunk. The question is whether or not, given that Harry repairs it, the mirror will come into play in DH and if so, how. Will he figure out how to use it to talk to Sirius or find another way to use it by attaining another one to talk with Hermione or Ron? Or will somethink completely different be in store for the mirror. JKR already said that the mirror will be back. We just don't know how.

Just to clear something up- whoever said that the people who went into the veil died??

Because Sirius went through so how do we know he died?? On page 805 of book 5 it says



So, it might not have been the Killing curse because it would have been green, not red.

So, the veil might be like a one way road. you can only go in.. but you can't get out.

I think that there are other Two-Way-Mirrors and of course... where is the other one?? It might still be at 12 Grimauld place and if Kreacher was in contact with the dark Lord, people might have gotten.. in some way and might use it...

But also going back to the fact that the mirror chattered... this is a magical world... everything can be repaired... right??

Okay so the Mirror shattered, right? In response to the mirror being used in another way, what if the shattered pieces are used for something special? I don't know what exactly, but they are easily used for pain, seeing as they are sharp.

I also think that (assuming Sirius did not die) perhaps when Harry demanded to see Sirius in the mirror, he might have been able to. What if Sirius chose from his end not to accept the invitation to talk? We don't know for sure how the mirror works, other than that Harry is supposed to say his godfather's name into it.

Sirius could be on a mission through the veil (although in this thread I will not speculate as to what that mission is) that requires him to be distanced from Harry or to make Harry think that he is dead.
Thoughts?

*Neville Loves Me*

these are just ideas, but the title is deathly hallows, not dead hallows, i think when a person goes through the veil, they become a deathly hallow. A sort of spirit that is near dead but not quite, like LV was once. So presuming sirius is not quite dead, and he had his mirror on him when he went through the veil, and harry and hermione manage to fix their mirror, they would somehow be able to communicate?

I think Harry will repair his mirror,find the one Sirius has,and give it to someone who really needs it so they can comminicate with each other in a battle or something.

if the mirror is broken then harry wont see anything but he might find, as was mentioned by someone else, some sort of note,pic, or message in the frame. i doubt that harry would throw away the last gift that he recieved from serious. but could it be possible that serious new that his brother, assuming that regulus is R.I.B.,was in possesion of the locket and left harry a message revealing the location of his brother ? wut do u guys think?

My opinion on this is that i don't think that it will come up again.. it didn't work when harry tried to use it after sirius died but again this is only my opinion =]

Sorry, but we already know that the two-way mirror will be back in DH. JKR said in an interview that the mirror will return and "will help more than you think". We are just trying to theorize what role it will play and how significant it will be in DH.

LittleRed, you really are a theory crusher!

I must have read countless threads where you post "Sorry, but.." after some poor newcomer bravely tries to put there ideas out there. Shame on you.

Anyway, coming back to the topic in hand, I was just thinking, if harry did find a note in the frame, what would it say? The mirror was used by sirius, but who had it before then?

The other thing i just thought of was that it would make sense if harry had broken sirius's mirror, but then found James' in Godric's Hollow. He could use that one.

comments?

I'm sorry. *temporarily ashamed* To all the newcomers who's theories I have crushed, I appologize! That being said, no point in letting people get false hope up on issues where there is already proven facts against them. Trust me, I've been put straight on a few issues myself! But I'm glad for it because I have been able to come up with newer and more sound theories (at least I think they are).

Back on topic. Sorry, but... (Just kidding ) You make a great point about James's mirror. I never thought about that. Good catch. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Harry stumbles across it. I wonder if James could have contacted Sirius through the mirror just before he died and that was how Sirius knew to come "running" to check up on them.

Damn those theories are all good, I on't be surprised if we meet some of them in the 7th book =)

Anyway, yeah I guess if harry's first stop will be in GH, he just MUST find out something very significant theere.

And the idea with James' mirror is really good. what if harry kinda I don't know didnt nkow how to use the mirror the right way.

I don't know it's late now and I am getting the idea:

Harry is in GH, visiting his parent's gaves and maybe the destryed house. and it's all dark and quiet and out of sudden he hears something.. and somewhere in the pieces of the house he finds James' mirror and someone's trying to contact him thru it.

Another thought I had was that Petunia is playing a role right? and I don't know maybe she will Harry something about the mirrors or something importand (I really doublt this though)

prongs2010

well i think that sirius is trully dead. without sirius that mirror is no good. but i do wonder, why did jkr put the whole mirror thing in the books to just never get used. i mean it was kinda pointless. i don't know.

LONG LIVE PRONGS!!!

I don't think there's a mirror to find in Godric's Hollow... Harry already has James' mirror; it's the one Sirius gave him. Sirius kept the other one, and told Harry to use it to communicate with him. So unless there are more than just the two, I don't see how Harry is going to acquire another one.

More likely I think is that Harry will repair the original one.

JKR didn't put them in the book never to be used again. She has already stated that the mirrors will make a reappearance in DH. We just aren't sure how yet.



Well, it doesn't actually state that that mirror was James' mirror. Here is the passage from the book:

"This is a two-way mirror. I've got the other. If you need to speak to me, just say my name into it; you'll appear in my mirror and I'll be able to talk in yours. James and I used to use them when we were in separate detentions."

Okay, who's to say that there were only two mirrors. When asked of JKR in an interview about Regulus having a mirror, she just grinned and drummed her fingers. Maybe there were three mirrors or more. Harry could have had Regulus' mirror meaning James would still have his. I know it says that he and James used "them" but it could just be a reference to the mirrors in general, not nec. those particular two mirrors. It's all on how you look at it. I wondered if maybe the mirrors is how Sirius knew to show up that night as quickly as he did.

Anyways, it's just a thought.

[font=Comic Sans Ms][color=#993399]well if jk brought up the mirror it must be for something.im just guessing here but maybe he will repair it like someone said and give it to someone in the order,ron,or hermione so when they are separarted and have info. that is useful they can tell each other

True. It's all in how you read the passage, as you said. The way Sirius said "I've got THE other" kind of led me to surmise that there were only two, at least that he knew of. If there were several, he's likely have said "I've got another".

I'm sure these will prove an important part of DH, so we'll be finding out soon!

harry tried once to talk to sirius after he died and he couldnt because sirius didnt have the mirror on him. so no i dont think tht he'll be able to comumnctae with sirius or his father the question is where is the other mirror? still at grimmauld place or did sirus drop it somewhere when going to rescue harry so who has it now?

I always thought that other mirror is at grimmauld, because sirius didn`t have it with himself, and therefor he didn7t answer to Harry`s calls.
but we do not now that sirius left the mirror behind at grimmauld or somewhere else.
maybe sirius took the mirror with himself but he is unable to answer

i have a theory and that is if sirus didn't has the other mirror with him the night he went to the ministry of magic then it must be at his home. i think harry will go to the black house and retrive the mirror again and take it to the ministry of magic. i think harry will throw the mirror into the veil where sirus has fall and then try to communicate with him again.