Good point Souljacker. I wondered this myself, however, I think that perhaps he may actually have been a Death Dater because there are two instances in OotP that imply this:

Chapter 23, pg. 532 (US version)--"How come I saw the snake's eyes if it's Voldemort's thoughts I'm sharing?
"Do not say the Dark Lord's name!" spat Snape.
"Professor Dumbledore says his name," said Harry quietly.
"Professor Dumbledore is an extremely powerful wizard," Snape muttered.
"While he may feel secure enough to use the name...the rest of us..." He rubbed his left forearm, apparently unconciously, on the spot where Harry knew the Dark Mark was burned into his skin.

Chapter 26, pg. 593 (US version)-- "Can you tell me something, sir?" said Harry, firing up again.
"Why do you call Voldemort the Dark Lord, I've only ever heard Death Eaters call him that--"
Snape opened his mouth in a snarl...."

Snape continues to speak of LV in respect at times only one that was true to LV would speak like that. However, for Snape to turn his back on LV something truly horrific had to happen to Snape at the hands of LV.

I reckone the reason why he Snape turned against the dark lord was because he didnt get some of the fun stiff with voldy...lol only jk

We know from the books that snape has always been lonely. He hides emotions and thoughts from everyone. He makes his own decisions. He turned agains Voldy beucase he thought it was wiser that way. But im sure there are much more realiable reasons.

The trouble is that Snape adheres to all the sterotypes of what a "Baddie", yet he is actually a real hero. Just because someone is bitter and withdrawn, it does not necessarily make them bad.

Given people's perceptions and with his obvious talent for Occulmency, I wondered if Snape volunteered (Or DD suggested) that he join with the Death Eaters as a spy?

Definitely plausible I think

I think that Snape tuning good just after Voldemort killed Jasem and Lilly Potter. THat snape thought that he would not get his powers back and so he did not have a leader any more. and that he saw an advert for potionsmaster at Hogwarts and that Snape took that oppertunity. (soy if i spelled that wrong!) and now that Voldemort get into his powers again, Snape wants to fight against him and no tbecome evil again. maybe because Dumbledore has got a lot of faith in him?!?

I have always wondered about this passage from GoF:

"And here we have six missing Death Eaters...three dead in my service. One, too cowardly to
return...he will pay. One, who I believe has left me forever...he will be killed, of course...and one, who remains my most faithful servant, and who has already re-entered my service"

I assume one of the people LV is referring to -- either the one who is "too cowardly" or the one who has "left forever" -- is Snape. Which one? Either way, how can Snape be doing spy work for the Order if LV believes him to be disloyal?

As for why Snape switched sides, I really like the idea that he loved Lily. He may have called her a Mudblood just to hide his true feelings. That would explain why he hates Harry so much - because Harry reminds Snape of Lily and the pain of his unrequited love *sigh* haha that would be a lot more romantic if it wasn't about Snivellus!

I remember reading that JKR said that the parts of the PoA movie that talked about Lily's kindness were predictive of things to come or something like that....This could tie in with Snape. Lily's kindness to Snape at Hogwarts could have contributed to Snape switching sides.

Overall, I think the books have always emphasized the importance of being accepting of outsiders (as with werewolves and giants) and putting away differences (like the Sorting Hat's song about all the Houses uniting). I think Snape proving himself to be a true hero for the Order would tie into these themes very nicely.

About the passage in GoF, I think that the one too cowardly to return is Karkaroff, and Snape the one who he believes has left him forever. But what I don´t get is, if he thinks Snape ahs left him forever, how can Snape get information from LV´s inner circle? Maybe someone will discover that at some point and cause Snape trouble.

I don't think Snape is being obvious about it. He's not actually attending DE meetings anyway, not IMHO. When Harry wound him up during Occlumancy, he said basically that it's his job to see what LV is saying to his DE's and I think, personally, that he's doing that through Lucius in one way or another. I don't think Lucius is particularly loyal to LV, I think he's more loyal to himself and what's best for him, which makes him a target for manipulation if Snape if careful enough about it. Remember that Lucius and Snape have been 'friends' for years and that Lucius wouldn't want everyone to see that something was suddenly 'wrong' between them...not up to the end of OotP at least anyway.

But to get back to the topic, I think that Voldemort hurt Snape or threatened to hurt someone he cared about which is why Snape turned on him. But I've said that before, so I won't go on about it anymore... Why Snape *joined* Voldemort in the first place...now that's an interesting one...

How do we even know that Snape turned against Voldemort...Wer not even sure if Snape works for Dumbladore or Voldemort

we know that Snape was a DeatEater don't we? I mean he has the dark mark on his arm..

Snape may have been at the graveyard in GoF. There were death eaters that Voldemort did not identify. If this is the case, Voldemort does not have a particular reason to distrust Snape.

Snape is at Hogwarts attending tha Third task, and he is definitely there when Barty Crouch Jr takes Harry. Since you can´t Apparate or Dispparate inside the Hogwarts grounds, IMHO Snape wasn´t at the graveyard after LV´s rebirth

There is a possibilty that Snape left the Hogwarts grounds to apparate to the graveyard. There is some time between Harry and Cedric's arrival at the graveyard and the arrival of the death eaters. Also there is some time between Barty Crouch, Jr. bringing Harry to his office and Snape's, McGonagall's, and Dumbledore's arrival.

Snape may not have been at the graveyard, but I think it's a possibility.

There was time between Harry´s and the DE´s arrivals at the graveyard, but not that much since LV called them and they Apparated there, so I don´t know how big is the chance of Snape being there.

well we will all find out on july 16th so all we have to do is be patient wait[SIZE=14][B]thats impossible i need it now

Yes that's true, but then what would be the point of this forums then? Please do not post if you've nothing to contribute to the discussion, james. Thanks.

ok. so i think i may have it figured out. severus owese james his life. years later, severus the death eater learns about voldemort's plot to kill james and lilly potter. to repay his debt severus is compelled to go to dumbledore and warn him. i mean, it is revealed that james and lilly were in hiding when they were killed in PoA right? and why would they be in hiding? someone had to tip them off.

but just the compulsion to repay his debt wouldn't be enough to turn snape, i think that what turned him all together was his love for lilly. so between the love severus had for lilly and the tip-off he gave dumbledore, severus has proven himself trustworthy.

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and another thing, in GoF, is it possible that Snape is the one Volde refers to as "his most faithful..." who has "...already re-entered" his services? It's a little far-fetched maybe, but JK seems to be forever turning what we thought to be obvious into something else entirely.

No, the faithful servant was Barty Crouch Jr. AKA fake Mad-Eye Moody.

I think Snape turned on Voldemort because he loved Lily, it would also explain why he hates Harry so much, he looks exactly like his father, except for the eyes of course

This one is an easy one. It was said that Snape was very high up in the DE ranks. Snape could sense that it was coming to an end so Snape switched sides so he would be on the winning side.

Many people say that Snape loves Lily but that is untrue. I the OotP Snape calls her a mud-blood. Thats not love. As for the reason he hates Harry is because of his looks yes and because of what his father did to him back when they were in school. Even if Harry looked like Lily, Snape would still hate Harry with passion because he is James's son. I think I just called Harry a girl.....oops it was only an example.

As for why Snape crossed over is because he felt alone. Although he practiced the dark arts in school doesn't neccessarily make him a bad guy. He moved to the Order's side because he had a home and he had a family that really cared for him even if it was James and Lupin and Sirius.

Ha Ha Ha!!! Those aren't laughter ha-ha's, they are for triumph. I've known this for a long time, but was afraid to start a post and have it locked. Anybody remember Snapes Worst Memory. When Lily helped Snape, and Snape goes "I don't need help from a mudblood". Anyone remember how Snape hated to be in debt for James, so he had to save his sons life. What about Lily, what did he do for her ? He turned on Voldemort is what he did!

so we know that snape was definately a death eater because he has the thing mark on his arm.
we also know that snape is the one voldemort is refering to when he says in GoF 'One, who I believe has left me forever...he will be killed, of course'
so snape cant be working for dumbledore to spy on Voldemort because Voldemort knows he has left him. so what happened to make voldemort know that snape has definately left him
so we also know that snape is in debt to James for saving his life so he must of done somthink or still needs to do somthink so fulfill this debt to harry. (i dont know if debt are then moved on to the child if the parent dies??)
i dont think snape loved lilly not at all! also we were given the hint that lupin loved lily so i doubt james, remus and snape would love lily, i think it was called his worse memory because he was sooo humiliated by james in front of practicely the whoel school
why does DD trust snape so much, i think it must be somthink HUGE if DD lets snape teach harry occulemancy (woopsy spelling!!)
i think snape will have such a big part to play in the next two books! a HUGE part because we know so little about him and his got such a mystery to his character, an information we do know about snape stil isnt a 100%
snape will definately have such a big part to play !!!
any thoughts?

Snape's role in the next two books will be bigger than he had before hopefully. He is such a great character not to be.

Another thing from previous background Snape's unhappy childhood is made worse by the taunting received by James Potter and Co. Forcing him to follow the path of the Death Eaters.

He does help Harry and the gang in loads of adventures though he cannot be such a bad character after all, in OoTP. At the end of OoTP we see a change of heart he gives house points to Harry and takes some off his own house.

Also being a member of the Order allows him greater freedom than when he was a death eater, he was always controlled by Voldemorts possesive behaviour, Dumbledore gives him an almost free reign if you like.

Also I think that he is pure blood, what other factors made his childhood unhappy was his mother a muggle and could he be the half blood prince?

How do we know that Snape was the one Voldermort was talking about when he said "I believe he has left me forever"? Snape and Lucius have been in close contact so i don't think that he would still keep up with the DE if Voldermort knows he betrayed him in the first war.

At the end of GoF DD asks Snape if he is ready and Snape says yes and Snape returns safely in the OotP so Voldermort must not know that he was betrayed.

All put together, Snape had 2 options: "Chose what is right and what is easy." The easy way for Snape was that he could stay with the DE and be locked up in prision or do the right thing and help prevent anything else bad happen to the world.

We really don't know if that the one Voldy was talking about was Snape. I stick to my redemption theory about Severus. He is a complex character who has both good and evil abilities. Life was bad to him and he, by nature, went to where he felt he had control. Voldemort's DE. But that chunk of time that preceded the Potter's deaths changed his motivation. He was somehow comforted by something on DD's side and went over. It would have to be big seeing as though his entire life had been surrounded by the dark arts. Agian, why DD won't allow him to teach them. I think as JK has pointed out, Love is a driving force in these books. Severus never recieved love. DD (maybe others) within the order could have shown him a side of love he has never before been given. Confidence, acceptance, trust, friendship, loyalty all these things Voldy's DE could never give to Severus. The order could give him what his heart needed to be good and once agian Love saves the day. I don't believe everyone accepts Severus as much as DD does. But it only takes one person to reach out. Therefore, if he came to merly pay his debt to James by tipping them off and saving his life, DD could have reached out, seeing as though only he is able to do. Severus seeing something he has never had before accepts and then to furthur redeem himself, he offers to spy. To help the order more. In doing so he gets to become a part of something that he feels GOOD about. Just my thoughts...

Guys, y'all are veering off-topic.

This thread is for discussing why Snape turned on Voldemort.

If you guys wanna talk more about Snape, drop by the Character thread Master list, scroll down to the heading "Snape" and you'll find there are quite a number of threads available related to him.

Okay, back on topic now!!

maybe Snape changed his mind?Sirius said Snape is smart enough to get himself out of trouble right?

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Hi Sora!

Why Snape turned his back on Voldemort... this is a really good question and it probably has something to do with why Dumbledore trusted Snape. Well... I bet he's the first Slytherin to do so. Youknow what? I'm stumped. Maybe he just realized what he was doing was wrong? You know, for some reason I doubt that.

I think Snape definitely loved (loves) Lily and his turning on Voldermort is related. He only called Lily a mudblood to hide his true feelings for her (like the constant bickering between Ron and Hermione).

He may have become a DE in the first place because James got the girl. He thought that LV could give him the feeling of acceptance he wanted, but he was never truly converted because of his love for Lily (and there is no place for love in LV's camp).

He left because of his love for Lily and his knowledge that LV was trying to kill her. DD, observant as always, caught on to Snape's secret love, which would contribute to him trusting Snape. It would also explain why he would refrain from telling Harry about it, since that would be hard for Harry to handle.

Snape still hates James and his hatred carries over to Harry because he looks so much like James, but I think in a do-or-die situation Snape will be about to make the wrong decision, but Harry's eyes will remind him of Lily.

Yes, i totally agree with that!

Thats what i've thought for ages, you just put it in better words than i could or did, i can't remember!

Maybe Dumbledore did something for Snape while he was in school, but Snape's friends had more influences over his actions and he joined the Death Eaters because they did. But maybe he saw how bad the Death Eaters were and decided to join back with Dumbledores side, or maybe something happened when James and Lily died...? Maybe he liked them more than he lets on? And what if Snape was muggle born? Who knows, maybe its some mystery we'll never find out...but I hope we will!

<3 Fleur_girl <3

love your theory albus-wan. anyway, maybe having been taught by dumbledore, some of DD's goodness rubbed off on him? who knows.

can't wait till 16th!! tick tock tick tock

I think Snape is the HBP and is related in some way to LV. When he did not show up for the Harry killing in the GOF, LV said, "I am afraid one has left us forever" he was in the midst of seeking punishment for those who were not loyal to him... why has he not seeked revenge on the one who turned his back? It's not because he's under the protection of Hogwarts - he's left several times.

I also think that he was under LV spell in order to become a deatheater, and PDumbledore taught him how to overcome the curse.

I can't wait to find out the connection he has to the Malfoy's, he's obviously very friendly with the lot of them. I think he has a connection to Petunia too - maybe they dated.

I think you'll find thats not quite right!

Voldemort/ Tom Riddle was in Slytherin and he is a half-blood, to his disgust!

Oh, and you might want to visit the Introduction thread, i'm sure a mod will pop up soon with a link to where it is, and some other useful hints and suggestions.

But let me be the first to welcome you.

Welcome!

I mentioned this somewhere else, but I think it adds to the theory of Snape's love for Lily causing him to turn on LV.

Voldemort has told Harry that Lily didn't need to die, and the only reason he killed her was because she was protecting Harry. I don't think that LV knew that Snape had already turned on him the night he killed James and Lily. It might be that he would have avoided killing Lily as a reward to one of his deatheaters--Snape.

Maybe because Voldemort double crossed Snape or something. Maybe that's why Snape stopped working for Voldemort.

I think snape had a girlfriend during the first war who was on dumbledores side with snape being on voldemorts side. She told snape to come over to her side and snape to her to come over to his. In the end she went over to his home intending to force him to join dumbledores side but voldemort found her and killed her, snape powerless was forced to stand there and watch her die. Snape vowed to kill voldemort for this but was not powerful enough to do it, but he stayed close hoping to find a weakness he could exploit. Then the prophecy was made and snape contacted dumbledore and made a deal, he would spie on voldemort and in return dumbledore would protect him when voldemort fell. This would also exlpain why snape hates harry so, it's because he is snapes only hope for revenge.

I do not think snape loved lilly because in book 5 OOTP he clearly hates her.

Not sure if this was brought up. What if Snape was there when Harry's parents died? What if he was the one who told Lily to run...or whatever he said. Might explain why Snape turned on Voldemort, because he was going to kill Lily. Also could help explain how Snape tried to repay his debt to James. On that debt, what is it? I don't remember reading about it...can someone tell me what it is? It would also explain why Dumbledore trusts Snape. Maybe he looked after Harry until Hagrid came on Sirius' bike...or whoever came first to pick up Harry.

Well, in OotP, Snape was teaching Harry Occlumency lessons because Dumbledore could not. And since Snape is talented in the field of Occlumency, Voldemort cannot tell that Snape provides him with lies. What kind of lies, I do not know, but hopefully we will find out in HBP.

Is it possible that Snape had a son?

I dismissed this sort of idea at first (and still think it's only a slim possibility). I remember having read in the rumors on JKR's website that Snape doesn't have children, but I just read it again recently and noticed that she said that Snape didn't have a daughter. Granted, she was debunking the rumor that Snape was Luna's father, but it may be significant that she didn't say that Snape doesn't have any children.

If Snape did have a son it would provide a great reason to turn on LV--Voldemort killed Snape's son! If Dumbledore was one of the privileged few to know this, it would give him a good reason to trust that Snape had legitimately turned on LV.

This would also explain an intense hatred for Harry. The son of his enemy lives while his own child was killed (it allows for many ambiguous feelings toward Harry--permitting him to still be able to try to save Harry's life). Also, if Snape heard that Lily's love saved Harry, imagine how Snape might take that. He might take it to mean that he did not love his child enough to save him (or her--JKR was speaking in the present tense, but that doesn't mean Snape didn't have a daughter).

I still feel like Snape would be a hard person to love, but people can turn pity into love.

Rowling makes rumors like snape having a son or daughter, voldemort being harry's father etc. to be too soap-opera ish in order to be part of the story. it just doesnt sound believable to mel i think the reason snape turned on voldemort would be more simple. he does seem to torture his death eaters often though, so it would probably have to be something deeper similar to the son/daughter theory

wow albus-wan I really like your theory on Snape having a son and subsequently him being murdered by Voldemort. Certainly would explain how Dd trusts him so explicitly, and why Snape despises Harry so much. Really clever thinking!

Hope you're right, it would certainly put an interesting twist on things!

Snape turned on Voldemort because Voldemort killed Lily or had Snape kill Lily. Snape's "worst memory" is not of him being humiliated in front of Lily, but of a "a hook-nosed man...shouting at a cowering woman, while a small dark-haired boy cried in a corner"; because that was not a scene of Snape's 'difficult childhood', but of Snape trying to tell Lily something (probably to leave the boy and get out) while Harry cried in his crib in the corner, probably on the night Harry's parents were killed. And the reason Snape was so attached to Lily was because he was adopted by the Evans family (Severus Snape = Perseus Evans). She was probably a guiding light to Snape just as she was a guiding light for Lupin. Does Lupin talk a lot about Lily in the books though? I think I might just be going off of the PoA movie. But that's the general description of Lily (as a guiding light) that we get from everyone.

And sorry if maybe this has been mentioned (although I doubt it), but I didn't want to search through 7 pages of posts.

That's a very good theory Albus-wan. I never would have thought of that. I think that Snape's father could have been a death eater and could have done things that were so gruesome that Snape didn't want anything to do with it.