I think Snape turned on Voldemort because Voldemort had Snape's family killed.
Snape maybe had a wife and child and they were going to spill the beans and Voldemort had them killed so Snape turned spy against him. What do you guys think?

I don't know about that but I am dying to know why Dumbledore trusts Snape. It has to be something huge... but what??? I have no theories on this topic, which is highly unusual for me. I'm usually full of them! Anyone have any ideas why Dumbledore would put so much trust into a known death eater?

He can read people's minds, can't he??

I don't know exactly what it is that caused Snape to turn against Voldemort, but it must have been something HUGE. I only say this because if it were something huge [which it probably is] then it gave Snape enough courage to go against Voldemort and betray him which takes a lot of guts if you ask me. After all..isn't the Dark Lord known for seeking revenge on those he deems worthy of severe punishment?

I think it had something to do with not wanting to kill Lily and James.

Don't spaz out - I'm referring to the fact that Snape owes James for saving his life, and as was stated in POA, he had a debt to pay. I think being involved in the Potters death could have proven very hairy for him (possibly dangerous, I don't know what happens when you kill the person that saves your life) and he decided to run for safety. And the only person he knew that could 'protect' him, in essence, was Dumbledore.

Therefore, I think Snape is good by default, because he's defected from the bad side and can't go back.

QUOTE

I think it had something to do with not wanting to kill Lily and James. Don't spaz out - I'm referring to the fact that Snape owes James for saving his life, and as was stated in POA, he had a debt to pay. I think being involved in the Potters death could have proven very hairy for him (possibly dangerous, I don't know what happens when you kill the person that saves your life) and he decided to run for safety. And the only person he knew that could 'protect' him, in essence, was Dumbledore. Therefore, I think Snape is good by default, because he's defected from the bad side and can't go back.

[b] EXCELLENT POINT! Why in the world didn't I think of that? What a dummy I am! I forgot about that..thank you for the memory refresher!

But at the end of GoF didn't Dumbledore say to Snape that he must ask him to do something and was he prepared for it. This would suggest that Snape is still somehow working as a double agent. And doesn't Sirius say in OoTP that Snape is Malfoy's lap-dog or words to that effect? Does this mean that Snape is triple-bluffing? He could still be a agent for the Dark Lord. What other thoughts were in the pensieve before he pulled Harry out, and why did he not turn up to rescue Harry with the other members of the OoTP?
Ponder, ponder...

Well, the reason he didn't show up to help Harry in OotP is fairly obvious, to me at least...Okay, anyway, if he is working as a double agent, then he couldn't very well show up with the Order as that would give away his position to the other Death Eaters and Voldemort...That would not be good for Snape

And do you remember when Harry asked Dumbledore something like why did he trust Snape and Dumbledore said that is an affair between Snape and him?

maybe at some point, long ago,dumbledore saved snape. and then when snape was working for voldemort, voldemort asked him to kill dumbledore, but snape couldnt because he would be in debt to dumbledore.

I think that Severus just stopped wanting to perform Dark Arts, he got a change of heart, he said, "This is dumb.....!" he saw a family get hurt and he realized this is bad, and evil. I must stop this.

I have no idea why Snape turned on Voldemort, but I highly doubt that it was just a change of heart.

But I do know, as should many of you, what he's doing for Dumbledore--he said it himself in OotP during Harry's Occlumency lessons. Snape said something about Harry turning in information to Dumbledore on Voldemort, and then Harry said, "No, that's your job, isn't it?" and Snape confirmed it.

Hmm.. I really don't know why Snape turned. I agree with a lot of you that it would have to be something big. I really hope we find out!

Jo said that throughout the next two books we'll find out why Dumbledore trusts Snape, so I think that's a clue that we'll find out why Snape turned on Voldemort.

I honestly think that Snape had strong feelings for Lily, perhaps even was in a relationship at some point with Lily. At very least, I think he cared about her deeply and respected her. As I explained in another post, I think that Snape calling Lily a mudblood in OotP was just a defence mechanism. I think that he called her that in order to regain whatever respect he had from his Slytherin peers (as if being humiliated like that in front of the whole school wasn't bad enough, without being saved by a Gryffindor girl who wasn't a pure-blood?)

I could explain this more if someone wants me to, but back to the post topic... I think that Snape turned on Voldemort when he threatened to attack James and Lily. It was said at some point, that Snape left Voldemorts services before their death... and I believe that upon hearing of the attack (and being someone close to "The Dark Lord" he would have), he could have went to inform Dumbledore.

Then on top of his respect/admiration and/or love for Lily, there's the fact that he simply owed James his life. He couldn't very well just let Voldemort kill him...

Do we know that Snape hasn't *always* been a double agent? Maybe the first time Voldemort was in power he was a double agent for the first Order. Ron always insists he was bad because all he knows is that Snape was a Death Eater, his parents weren't in the Order last time so maybe they don't know he was a good guy then too. Or possibly not.

Or maybe the only reason he became a Death Eater in the first place was becuase he'd had such a miserable life and Voldemort offered him things he couldn't have had otherwise (like power, wealth, etc.).

Thats a really good point. Dumbledore prolly can't just read Snapes mind and seeing if he is telling the truth, since we know he is such an accomplished oculmens. I wonder how he is possibly still a spy for the order, if is SS he knew what Quirel is up to, wouldn't Voldemort want his assitance, and if Snape refused and was, gasp, helping Harry, I think his cover would be blown

Snape can't like Lily..she's well...dead**im sorry to say**

I think that Snape turned on Voldemort because he tried to save Lily and James. Remeber in PoA Dumbledore says that Wormtail has a debt to pay to Harry because he saved his life....Well in OotP James saves Snape's life so maybe Snape was paying the debt to James by trying his best to save them from Voldemort.

Snape turned on Voldemort because Voldemort had Snape's family killed because Snape was disloyal (or something) and that's why Snape has no family (perhaps)

Didn't some of the people who were sided with Voldemort were only sided with him because he used the Imperius(if I spelt that wrong, please don't bite my head off)curse on them? Maybe that happened with Snape. Or was it those people who said that were only lying...Or were some lying and some telling the truth..-shrugs-

Maybe Harry will look in Snape's pensieve again and see why? And yes, I meant to make that a question.

Well, if my memory serves me correctly (wish I had a pensieve), Lucius Malfoy said he was only supporting Voldemort since he was under the Imperious Curse, and we all know that was a lie

Wasn't Snape's debt to Harry/James repaid when he saved him in his first yaer?

lol, Maybe I'm dumb.


---------------------------

"Mmmm. Pie-pants"

Kind of.

But if I remember right (Hmmmm) Snape thought that Dumbledore would've been cranky at him for letting Harry die.

And don't forget about the prophecy.....

Yes...nobody wants a cranky headmaster...

What about the prophesy?
I'm confused...

This has nothing to do with the Prophecy!! I think you are a bit confused.

Because for some unknown reason Snape hates Voldemort. Snape knowing what the Prophecy contained couldn't see Harry die when Harry is the only one that can kill Voldemort for good.


So thats why Harry was saved.

Oh... I see now. I was totally confused. lol

Anyway, forgetting my stupidity, you make a good point. And since Dumbledore is the one who told Harry why Snape saved him, he couldn't really say, right in the first book, "Oh Harry, funny you should ask. See there was a prophesy that you are tha only one that can kill Voldemort. Or he will kill you. So we can't have you dying in the Quidditch field now can we? Now, get some rest, you have a house cup to win."

That would have been odd if he had though. Than the 5th book would be like Sirius died. The end. Its better her way...

Yeah - because the curse was Quirrel/Voldemorts harry could have well died on that day *happy* because he didn't!!!

Could he die in a Quidditch match? The prophecy states that he can only be killed by Voldemort. Of course it could mean he could die a natural way but no PERSON could kill him...

Quirrell was jinxing his broom - Quirrell was Voldemort and that gives him a 10000% chance that he could've died. Snape knew at the time and helped Harry.

I want to know - When Harry kills Voldemort does that mean that Harry is immortal?

The answer is probably no. But as I am not allowed near the books. I will ask some kind person to help me!

No, I don't think so....if anything, because of the tie they share, it's more likely to make him even mortal than he already is once old Voldy's gone, I suppose. (Okay, I suppose that's being like 'a little bit' pregnant, but....**shrugs**)

BTW Kreacher (you poor little thing!! ), what about the audio version of the books? If you're listening to a personal CD or something, no one would suspect, would they? They can't confiscate those....Tell them you're listening to Mozart or something and they'll be so impressed by your...ahem... 'efforts' to do something intelligent AND something that's not HP-related that they'll give you back your books, PLUS, you'll have the satisfaction of knowing that you've put one over on them!!

(Ooh...I'm so devious.... Comes from years of experience.... )

You are devious!!! I should do that!! "mum can you drive me to the shop? No its ok ummmm i'm meeting my friends" Yeah right! I'll try!

Good point. I suppose it turns him into an ordinary person?

Hey, if Snape knew that Quirrel was trying to then why didn't he just tell Dumbledore?

Because Snape has always been really weird like that. He probably didn't tell DD because DD would've found out about Quirrell and Snape would no longer be the Hero. I just think that Snape (whose life was saved by james) just wanted to repay his debt and continue to hate the lot of them!

Yeah, but Snape's weird 'cause he's already saved Harry's life and repayed the debt, so why does he continue to save Harry? I mean, obviously he's a good guy....deep down, but still...and since Lupin saved Harry's life, does Harry now owe Lupin? And Harry saved Wormtail's life so he owes Harry....it's all so confusing

I just think that Snape wants Voldemort gone 'cause Snape betrayed him and the only way that he'll go is through Harry.

Ooh, that's a good idea! I bet that would really break poor old Snape up inside - to think that the only way he'll ever really be safe from Voldemort's revenge is to rely on someone he detests so much.

Exactly! The pillar of the last 2 books are going to be the choice between whats right and wrong!

Everything goes against Snapes beliefs but Snape has to do what is best for Wizardkind and that is to protect Harry

Ahhh... Good times...

Wait, that didn't make sense...

Wow, this is a completly useless post. (yay! I have a new sig)

I like your new sig! Yeah it was completely useless but then again so is this one!

I think this is a rather interesting topic that need some fresh air out out from the dusted 'long-forgotten-topic' closet...

Soo, why did Snape turned on Voldemort?

I like the idea someone said earlier in this thread that probably LV killed his family, which is why he's so cold and mean to others but pledged his loyalty to DD...

or that he refused to kill James and Lily because James had once saved his life. So, by refusing to do that, he had no where to go but seek protection from DD...

Hmm... any thought?

I don't think Voldemort killed Snape's family or that Snape refused to kill James and Lily for a few reasons. The big one is that if Snape's family were killed I think that Snape would not be able to serve in his current role as spy for the order.

Snape also couldn't have refused to kill James or Lily because that would also affect his current status as a spy. I think that Snape pulled the same maneuver as Regulus Black (Sirius's brother who tried to leave the Death Eaters and was killed for it.)

But Snape, I think, was much more intelligent about it. He realized what kind of man Voldemort was around the same time as Regulus, but unlike Regulus he knew that you can't just leave the death eaters. This makes me think that Snape wanted out and quietly turned to Dumbledore for assistance.

But this still has the plot hole of why does Dumbledore trust Snape so implicitly and what did Snape do to convince Dumbledore that this wasn't a ploy to get a spy within Dumbledore's inner circle? I think Snape may still be playing both sides and only serving himself (but that's another topic, and still doesn't answer what spurred Severus to switch loyalties).

So I guess Snape was a little freaked when the "Dark Lord" revealed just how strong his hatred was and this freaked Snape out and made him turn to Dumbledore for an escape route (which ultimately saved his ass as seen in the pensieve.)

Well, that's my opinion. Tell me what you think about the parallel between Regulus Black and Snape and how they came to the same conclusion, but used different means to escape (with Regulus ending up dead for his decision.)


Anyway, I'm outta here, so tell me whatya think. Peace

snape is a undercover auror and hes been getting ready to be a auror since he was in school when he pretended to hate mudbloods and i bet he had the same thing happen to him as harry happened to him when he was being sorted but was sorted the opposite way but inside he wasnt mean to ppl

So his career as a Professor and his time as a Death Eater have all Been a Massive Rouse!?

I'm not so sure about that one.

Don't get me wrong I LOVE Snape, but I don't think he has always been a great guy planning since before he went into Hogwarts to be an auror.

I think Snape fell in with the wrong crowd and realized his mistake and wanted a way out.

I don't know if he hates muggles or not. I certainly think he prefers pure bloods.

Snape is definitely a pure blood correct? did we hear sirius say that he was related to snape. (knowing that all purebloods are related somehow)

I dont think Voldie killed any of his family, i agree with siriuslupin when he says the he just realized and wanted to get out, but was smarter about it.

I also think that DD would have had a good reason to believe him, and wouldnt just put him where he was without a reason to believe that he has turned for good. I think that snape has proved he doesnt want to kill anyone, its that he just doesnt like anyone.

I want to know if snape is indeed playing the double agent role. I do not remember the timeline, but he got out before LV's first defeat correct? and if that is the case, then what did he tell to LV to let him go work for DD. LV had to of known. his death eaters have kids, and the generations have gone through Hogwarts. He would have known when snape took the potions job. What did snape do to prove that he had truly traded sides. and what kind of information does snape feed LV? Maybe Snape is not directly involved with LV but has an inside source. like a spy for a spy. It is not like he can do dective work and spy from a car outside a house.

these are questions that everyone is dying to know. theres just so little we know of snape. she really has teased us hasnt she

What if Snape never turned on Voldemort? Not in the sense that he was and still is a Death Eater, Loyal to Voldemort but that He was never loyal to Volde in the first place.

I know in Dumbledore’s Pensive Harry hears Dumbledore say;
'I have given evidence already on the matter,' he said calmly. 'Severus Snape was indeed a Death Eater. However he rejoined our side before Lord Voldemort's downfall and turned spy for us, at great personal risk. He is now no more a Death Eater than I am' Dumbledore, TOTP. pg 513 UK p/b ed

But what if James saving Severus's life was a turning point for Severus and he may have decided a different path to his friends who became Death Eaters. When Volde was recruiting for Death Eaters Severus, at Dumbledore’s request joined up so that he could be a spy from the start and relay information to Dumbledore about Volde's actions.
Dumbledore may have pretended in Karkaroff's trial that Severus was a real Death Eater to the onlookers and so if Volde returned (as Dumbledore always believed he would) Severus could resume his role as spy and simply say he had fooled Dumbledore into believing he was a part of the Order and had only done it so he could 'spy on Dumbledore' and pass on information to Volde (which would of course be false giving the order the added advantage of feeding particular info to Volde which may divert his attention from the Orders real operations) In essence Severus is Dumbledore’s 'Ace in the Hole' which he was keeping in reserve.

Plus why does Severus know Occlumency? Could it be that Dumbledore taught Severus this skill so he could lie to Volde? After all the only other person apart from Severus who has knowledge of this magic is Dumbledore and Volde.

This may explain why Severus remained friends with Lucius after Volde’s ‘down fall’ (Dumbledore probably didn't believe Lucius's cover story for being a death eater and would have wanted someone close to him to see what he was up to) , and appears to be so moody, because he could never relay his true allegiances even after Volde’s apparent downfall and so would have had to keep up the Pure Blood facade.

Good Point. I am tempted to think though, that Snape was an actual death eater.

What I want to know is what made him turn? Plus, to become a death eater to begin with, (regardless of his initial or final loyalties) he must have done some morally abhorrent and atrocious things.

What do you guys think he did? Also i think something happened to the death eaters that revealed how extreme Voldemort's beliefs were. I think that Harry may be somewhat right when he does not entirely trust Snape. I can't tell what Snape's true allegiance is, and, in fact, I believe he may only be serving himself.

hey. is the shorthand for dumbledore DD??? coz shouldn't it be AD seeing as his name iS Albus Dumbledore???

DD is a shortform for Dumbledore, as in Dumbledore. It's been used throughout HP forums and discussion for many months, so we're keeping to the so-called standard. Check this thread here for more information.

Back to Snape discussion now....