Okie. This one is simple.
Harry sees Cedric die.
Harry goes back to the school
Stuff happens.
Harry gets back onto the carriages. Horses are still seemingly invisable.
Summer happens.
Harry gets back to school.
Can see Horses.
Later finds out that only people that have seen death can see the horses.

Shouldn't he have seen them before?

Maybe he was still in disbelief. In order to see the thestrals, you have to let the death sink in.

I dunno though....perhaps he should have seen them earlier.

The death does have to sink in. He couldn't really take in what happened to his mother and he's still really shocked at the end of Goblet of Fire. Once he's had all summer to dwell on what happened, he has the ability to see the thestrals.

yeah, i geuss he was still in a kind of shock i geuss!!, i geuss you have to accept that death happend...

Yes, JK said it herself, death has to sink in [cedric's death]...& also Harry did not see his mother die she was killed in another room or something..thats what I read on JK's official site. Which gives a clear explanation on why he was not able to see them in his previous years at Hogwarts.

I never thought they took the carriages back to the Hogwarts Express *shrugs*. I always just figured they walked to it... Give the students more time for goodbyes and the like... Maybe I'm insane...

Lol, you've got a pretty cool way of explaining it =) What happened: Harry had just witnessed Cedric's death when coming home to Privet Drive. Over the summer he had lots of time re-living it in his nightmares. When he comes back in book 5, he finnaly sees the thestrals because Harry has accepted the death.

Well Jk did say it had to sink in. I dont know what happens when school ends and the head toward the train. But, she also said that she didn't want to leave a big mystery in the end of the book, so she saved the horses for the 5th.

On JKR's site on the FAQ section she answered this question.
The answer is what NastyShort said, Harry had to let the death sort of sink in, so that he can finally sort of get over it...I dunno, go on her site and you'll receive a more explanatory answer.

no because the death has to sink in first cedrics didnt have time to sink in when he left school i think hagrid quoted something like that in the book if i find ill post it

The post below was made by fieryhell in a topic that has been closed. Any reply should be refered to them.
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Iv'e noticed on jk's site theres a question about whether Harry shouldve have been able to see the thestrals earlier, having had his mother killed in front of him, and having witnessed Quirrell's demise. She replies that Harry didnt witness his mother die as he was in a cot, and that he passed about before Quirrell died

My point is that in the 1st film They have kept Harry conscious and so he does witness Quirrell die , which should mean that he sees the thestrals sooner, either that or there must be another reason he cant see them!

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fieryhell, firstly, JKR said the death has to sink in. It has to be someone he doesn't want to die. Like Cedric. He was there because Harry had suggested they'd hold on the cup together at the same time. Harry blamed part of the death on himself. Look at the aftershock he received at the end of the fourth book. But he wanted Quirrel to die. He was helpless at the moment and he has no idea how to escape him. I believe he's glad that at some point he manage to kill Quirrel just by touching him skin to skin.

Secondly, you can't exactly compare the movies with books. Books are canon, where all the facts should be refered to, especially on something as mysterious as this. JKR did say she will insert the thestral in later books. Movies are based on the books. I know that JKR oversees the script and all. If that is the case, I suppose it's not such a big plot that it will mess-up later movies.

That's my opinion

I dont know if anyone realized it before..but in the fourth book (which I only picked up after reading it for the 4th time) when they are all going to go back to the Hogwarts express it is Hermione that sees the carrages comming so she wouldnt have been seen them, maybe Harry would have been able to see them but JKR didnt want to bring up a new character (possible an important one ) so late in a book...just a though...

speaking of thestrals......
well, harry could see them only because he saw cedric die.
but you know, i find the thestrals cool!
eventhough, they somehow look a bit scary!

i wanna ride a thestral!
but i haven't seen anyone dead!
like ron, ginny and hermione, maybe once i ride on them, it was a weird experience but i can say cool!
coz' it seems that you're floating in air!
riding on a thestral but you can't see them!
whoa!

but i really want to have a ride!

as people are saying harry didn't let it sink in at the end of book 4


EDIT : If you're not going to be nice with your comments, then we'd really rather you didn't make them at all. lawks had already answered the question - there was no need for you to be rude. Changing your username didn't work, my friend. Behave yourself, please.

yeah i noticed this problem too. but after reading others posts i do remember something about having the death sink in... i'm sure there's a logical reason why harry didn't see the thestrals according to JKR.

Yea, I agree with Pigwidgion. I think that JK did not want to bring up a character like the Threstal because it was so late in the book and she did not want to leave us with such a question as to what a threstal is at the nding of the book.

P.S. I love threstals Wish i could ride one!

I was wondering didn't he see his parents die or am i just imagining it? because i thought that he did but that would mean he would see the Threstrals in his first year not his 5th so I'm confused can someone answer this for me?

I have been wondering this for quite a long time!!! Harry should have seen the thestrals on his first carrige ride because he saw his mother die

Er, I noticed while reading the books that Harry didn't see Cedric die. He was there when he died, but he didn't see it happen. Rmember? Harry and Cedric got at the graveyard, Pettigrew appeared and Harry collapsed to the ground clutching his scar 'cause it was burning. Then, it says Harry could see a flash of green light through his eyelids and then he felt Cedric's body slump over near him. So, Harry didn't see him die. It even says he didn't open his eyes until a few moments later.

It's not a big deal, but it's been bugging me so, someong want to straighten things out?

Oh, RaLizDeG, Jk's already cleared that up. Harry didn't see his mum die because he was in his crib and couldn't see over it. In book one, he passed out before Quirrel died. Does it count if you see a memory die? And no one died in boo three. He saw (or did he?) Cedric die in book four. Then Sirius in book five and now...*sob* DD in book six.

I feel SO bad for Harry!!

I think this topic has pretty much cleared itself up. It was very informitive but while on the subject of Thestrals, Luna said her mom died in a experiment. I just find it weird that Luna would of been directly their and seen her mother do something that killed her. That would definitly make her weird. Sorry if theirs another thread about this.

JK has cleared this up on her website. she didnt bring the thresals in book four because she didnt want to start something at the end of a long book. she knew how she wanted to do it and thought it would go better in book 5 for length reasons. she answers this on her website on the FAQ part. look there for the full explaination.

To see a theastral you have to experience death ... Harry experienced it with his parents .. but when he experienced Cedrics death ... he was more aware of danger... thats probably why Harry couldnt see the Thestrals before that time ...

Yeah I was wondering about that too, but another thing is he saw his parents die, didnt he? I mean he may have been young...but still..............

Whats the point of the Thestrals though?

Hi there HP^4^Life!

Can i just direct you to the rules? (link in my signature) One liners aren't allowed on Veritaserum , as they don't promtote much discussion Can you please try to eleborate in future?

If you have any questions don't hesistate to give me a PM

Cheers, and happy posting

You can see thestrals ONLY when you have had a direct experience with death (you don't need to actually SEE it, as such, just be there, and aware of what is happening, when it happens) AND you have fully understood (and can remember) the experience, and it has had time to fully sink in.

1. His parents - even though Harry was there for this, he was only one year old, and didn't understand what was happening.
2. Quirrell's death - Harry was unconcious, and not aware of what was happening when Quirrell died
3. Cedric's death - this was the one that caused Harry to see the thestrals, but it didn't sink in for him until later.

Hmmmm..... Well maybe it was because Cedrics geat hadn't sunk in yet. Or because J.K. didn't want to introduce new charecters so late in the book.

Oops!! Typo! I meant to type DEATH not GEAT! Wher am I today!?!?

What I wonder is why Harry couldn't see them from the start. I understand what you are saying Kymar, but Luna was 9 when her mother died, and she can still remember it, so I don't really know.

Maybe the Thestrals were there at the end of the fourth book, but maybe Harry didn't care, or didn't notice. He had a lot on his mind then...

It could also be just because you don't really understand death until you are older, a lot of people who loose their parents when they are young don't really miss them/ know what they are missing. Since they are so young and don't really know waht is going on, that might have a effect...

Maybe he was still in disbelief. In order to see the thestrals, you have to let the death sink in.

I dunno though....perhaps he should have seen them earlier.



i like totally agree with before quoted statement i think that he couldn't see it after his mom died though is either he was to young to remember it happpening i mean you might be that you have to remember it happening or his mother might have turned away s that he wouldn't see voldemort kill her

yer i often wondered that ? maybe you do have to remember but if harry can hear his mum screaming like he said in book 3 then why cant he remember his mum dying?

I think I have already seen this question somewhere.
In my opinion, Harry was too young to realize the death of his parents when he was like one year old.
Quirrell: I think that Harry was knocked out before Voldemort left Quirrell's body, so Harry hadn't actually seen him die.
And to Cedric's death: I don't really believe in what JKR says, that the death has to sink in. There may be two reasons for harry not seeing the Thestrals at the end of book four:
1.JKR didn't want to introduce a new miracle at the very end of a book.
2: What I do belive is that she just hadn't made them up then and needed an excuse after the release of OotP...
What do you think, is more likely?

Harry counldn't see therstals until his 5th year because he saw Cedric die in the 4th year.
You have to to actually see them die and feel the pain of their death.
With his parents, Harry was merly a baby, the only thing he can remember seeing is a flash of green light. That is not seeing death but what caused the death of his parents.
About Quirrell death, did Harry really care? No he didn't.
I think for a person to be able to see threstal's they have to feel death and Harry didn't feel for Quirrell, at all.
But he felt for Cedric. Long and hard, all over the summer he had nightmares, and he felt guilty as well.
So he felt it and that's why he could see them in the 5th book.

actually my question (now that the original has been answered thoroughly) is why couldnt harry see the thestrals to begin with? He had witnessed his parents' deaths.

I know that it has been emphasised by JKR herself that to see the thestrals, you would have to witness death in front of your eyes and it has to sink in. All those arguments sound fairly convincing when you mention about him not having witnesses all those deaths before he saw Cedric actually die and the the time it took for him to sink in.

But if we examine this carefully the thing mentioned here is death and not specifically human death. If that's the case then Harry did witness a death prior to that of Cedric. Remember he killed the basilisk in the chamber of secrets and saw it die in front of his eyes. He did not forget about it since he discussed Tom Riddle with Dumbledore afterwards, so Basilisk's death had enough time to sink in. Even if the criteria is human death, Harry did witness a human death before Cedric. If we recall he saw Voldemort murder Frank Bryce in Riddle House in Little Hangleton when he received that vision from Tom. He wrote to Sirius after that and spoke about it to Ron and Hermione. He even discussed this with Dumbledore so the question of death not sinking in sounds not so convincing.

I believe that this was just another attempt on JKRs part not to accept an oversight on her part and try to circumvent the issue with deft use of verbosity. Some may disagree, but I believe that she made a mistake here. Of course I don't blame her for that, the books were written over a long period of time, but if she says that she had every thing planned out, then it would make it harder to have oversights. Guess Threstals were not in her original scheme of things and perhaps she wanted Harry and his friends to reach the ministry on brooms or a flying balloon ;-).

This question was cleared up in an interview:

• Interview with J.K. Rowling (2004)
  
  In the fifth book, Harry can see the Thestrals. Can you?
  
  Yes, I can, definitely. That is a really good question, because it enables me to clear up a point. The letters that I’ve had about the Thestrals! Everyone has said to me that Harry saw people die before could see the Thestrals. Just to clear this up once and for all, this was not a mistake. I would be the first to say that I have made mistakes in the books, but this was not a mistake. I really thought this one through. Harry did not see his parents die. He was one year old and in a cot at the time. Although you never see that scene, I wrote it and then cut it. He didn’t see it; he was too young to appreciate it. When you find out about the Thestrals, you find that you can see them only when you really understand death in a broader sense, when you really know what it means. Someone said that Harry saw Quirrell die, but that is not true. He was unconscious when Quirrell died, in Philosopher’s Stone. He did not know until he came around that Quirrell had died when Voldemort left his body. Then you have Cedric. With Cedric, fair point. Harry had just seen Cedric die when he got back into the carriages to go back to Hogsmeade station. I thought about that at the end of Goblet, because I have known from the word go what was drawing the carriages. From Chamber of Secrets, in which there are carriages drawn by invisible things, I have known what was there. I decided that it would be an odd thing to do right at the end of a book. Anyone who has suffered a bereavement knows that there is the immediate shock but that it takes a little while to appreciate fully that you will never see that person again. Until that had happened, I did not think that Harry could see the Thestrals. That means that when he goes back, he saw these spooky things. It set the tone for Phoenix, which is a much darker book.

I think Harry should have been able to see them at the end of the fourth book, but Cedric's Death hadn't really sunk in yet.

It's right what JK said in the interview.. When you see someone die it takes time to realise you wont see them again. (I still cant belive i wont see my grandmother again, and she died two months ago ) And Harry was on his way home only some days after the death of Cedric, i understand if he still didnt belive it.

He knew he died, but he didnt understand, he was shocked, then he was saddened because he thought it through and got the point.. "Cedric is really dead, and nothing will bring him back."

that is not it, it is just another JKR contunacy error, her books are great but with seven books she must not only remember past things but also think new exciting objhects

Hm well according to the movie harrys mother dies right in front f him. IDK just a thought.

JK Rowling said in one of her interviews that Harry could not remember his parents death! Obviously what can you remeber from when you were 1 years old. So after seeing Cedric die he could see the Thestrals.[font=Century Gothic][color=#3333FF]

i think JKR is right who are we to tell her that she got her own books wrong if she has said in an interview and explained everything then i believe her...but..what does strike me is the she doesnt explain away sirius's death...maybe it is because she doesnt want to draw attention to it because sirius didnt die there for harry doesnt see thestrals becuase he didnt see his death...maybe he will come back!

I do not find that very convincing. If the fans have no right to "tell her that", then I do not see a reason for all these discussions to exist. As a successful author of such a widely popular series, she has o prepare for all the adulations and criticisms that come her way, which I might add she has done commendable job as. But then if we are participating in such discussions, not many of us take everything she has to say or write as sacrosanct, we have our reasons to disagree, and we are just putting our views on the table.

JKR is a human like everyone else and all humans make mistakes. She may not have made the mistake in this instance with regard to thestrals, but I feel that her explanations left much to be desired. The concept of sinking in was quite vague and doesn't explain why previous deaths did not sink in and I am not talking about his parents. There are several aspects that are unclear and not many were satisfied with her explanations. That doesn't mean that people don't admire her work, just that they would like to know more about things

True, but if JKR can provide an explanation for what we think are mistakes then she is obviously right because they are her creation

and i have to say sorry to everyone... i have become everything that complain about with some harry potter fans...NOT ALL but the ones who say some thing or make a theory and there is something so obvious that for some reason they miss it my mistake way the sirius coment...Harry could see thestrals before sirius died and i was making a theory on the fact that harry didnt see thestrals after sirius's death...i mean he rode the things to the ministry in the first place. but at least i noticed my mistake and fixed it before someone could make me feel silly with my self and correct me lol...

Somewhere in either the fifth or the sixth book they explain this. They said that you can only see them if the death has SUNK in. harry was so young when he saw his parents die, I doubt he even remembers it, so he hasnt let the death sink in. also, even if he had seen it, he hasnt truly let it sink it, he has always looked for a loop hole in seeing them again, or they being alive and the what not.

ive discussed this on many other forum sites. and we came to the conclusion that harry was simply to young to realise what he had witnessed or had his back turned or something of that manner.