This is another of our new Venom threads. These threads have VERY STRICT rules, which are below.

This is a privilege that we have decided to try on the forums to give people a chance to express their feelings against particular ships because there is currently no place to do so. This privilege WILL be revoked if people abuse it - this is an idea we are trying purely on a trial basis so if it gets pulled, you will only have yourselves to blame.

The mods respectfully request that you behave with maturity, decorum and respect for other fans in here and strongly recommend that you familiarise yourself with the VTM rules which are different to those you may have come across in other forums. Ignorance of the rules is NOT a defence.

These are NOT debate threads - they are purely for NON-SUPPORTERS of ships.

1. Members who support the ships being discussed here are strongly advised to stay away. You WILL see things that will upset, annoy and anger you. The purpose of these threads is for people to have a place to freely vent with like-minded people, but NOT to argue. Supporters have their own threads, people who hate certain ships need to have a place to vent to that is free from retaliatory/argumentative posts or flames (nasty, personal remarks)

2. These are NOT debate threads - there is no case to answer. The mods DO NOT want to see defensive posts in these threads.

3. All Veritaserum rules still apply - no cursing, abuse, nastiness or personal attacks will be tolerated here. You may feel free to criticise the ship as much as you like because they are fictional and you're not hurting anyone, but DO NOT attack REAL people, DO NOT attack Jo Rowling personally who worked very hard to create this series that we all love (although you may express dissatisfaction, so long as you do it POLITELY) and DO NOT attack the opinions, intelligence or make other personal remarks about the fans who support these ships/characters. That behaviour WILL NOT be tolerated. Such posts will be met with official warnings and a restriction of your posting privileges.

4. Please do not argue against one ship on the basis that another is more likely. These threads are ONLY for discussing the reasons why you don't like THIS PARTICULAR SHIP - the fact that you prefer another is NOT a valid argument.

5. These threads are not to be opened by regular members; any Venom threads not opened by a moderator will be locked as they have in the past.

All that out of the way, feel free to bash away.

I'm first to bash it, it seems, unless somebody is faster

I don't like this relationship, it went out of nowhere and it's not convincing, the same like Ginny/Harry I can't imagine Tonks and Lupin. Poor Remus should have a woman in his own age or so, a warm, nice woman, not a crazy punk Tonks. Amen.

I wouldn't say that I loathe this ship quite as passionately as I do Harry/Ginny, but that says a lot in itself - indifference, someone once told me, is far worse than outright hatred. I simply don't care about this relationship - Jo just didn't bring it alive for me. This lovelorn, miserable wandering of Tonks through the book was just reminiscent of the teenage lusts going on between the younger characters.

There was nothing to indicate that this would happen. I could pull out a heapload of canon that might have pointed towards Lupin being gay - certainly enough to compare to any amount of so called "canon" evidence that Lupin/Tonks was foreshadowed, but everyone just laughs at that now. It seems that ultimately, people will see whatever they want to in these books and that seems to be how this ship came about. Even Jo herself said that she read about it and it seemed like a good idea, or something along those lines.

Maybe I could have lived with this ship had there been a little more leading up to it. As it was, it seemed a little stilted and forced to me. "Oh, Lupin isn't with anyone...who can we pair him off with? Mmm...distinct lack of females in this story...Hermione's too young (though that's great in fanfic!), Arabella Figg's too old...mmm....I know! Tonks!!" - (Psst...but there's ten years between them, Jo) - "Ooops...forgot about that...well, I hadn't intended them to be together in the beginning you see. Ah well, no matter...we'll ram 'em together anyway"

BTW - I didn't start this thread just for me to rant in...before I get accused of abusing my powers! I did actually receive a request to start this thread so while there's a chance, let's dance, as Chris Rea said....

Thank you for starting this thread Dana_Scully!

JKR didn't only not bring this ship to life for me. But it's like there was no need for it. I certainly think the love themes are strong enough in the books that this one was unnecessary.

There's so much I don't like about Tonks I don't know where to begin. I'll have to give it some time so I organize all of my thoughts.

I just don't what everyone else sees in them. They're not even a cute couple.

I wonder where JKR said she read about this idea? I guess I was misled when she said she had all of books planned out. At least, I thought she's said before.

Oooh another Venom Thread! This should be fun...

I don't really hate this relationship.. I actually don't see any relationship there what so ever.. it was so.. out of the blue you know? I guess I could compare it to H/G (but I won't because that's for another thread and I have a more stronger opinion on it.) As I was saying, there was no evidence leading up to this event.. sort of like another relationship *coughs* But Lupin and Tonks? Nah, Jo didn't convince me into it.. it was so rushed and so.. blah.. Maybe she felt sorry for Lupin so she just paired him up with someone for the fun of it?

Personally, I think Lupin deserves better..
-Dominique

I can see its potential, but I didn't like it.

It just came from nowhere- even more so than Harry and Ginny, but I've ranted about that enough.

I don't have a problem with the age thing. But the way it was written was just a "see! A warewolf can find love!!" and I was like-- WHAT THE?!?!?! I really didn't predict that. I didn't think that Tonks was in love with Sirius as was suggested, but I just can't see WHEN she fell in love with Remus. I mean, it's not like they really had anything to DO with each other??? She was working in the 5th book while he was whatevering and now he's been off with Wolves the last book while she's at the school and Hogsmeade.

It really does just seem like they needed to pair him off with someone and she was the only available female.

Honestly, I don't like Tonks too. She gets on my nerves a bit. I mean, she's a young woman, but she behaves more like a crazy 5-year-old. I like DD, Harry, Ron, all the Weasleys except Percy, even Snape, I like Draco more than Tonks! It's the way of creating the character: Tonks is annoying. It's great when the writer can create good characters which seem annoying and bad which are funny, it's the matter of looking at this world and people in everything but not a black-and-white perspective.

But Lupin and Tonks? I like Remus very much. I have no idea what happened that they both fell in love.

I guess I sort of get the impression from Tonks that she's just as much of an emotion chameleon as a physical one. It's like she's always forcing herself into places she doesn't belong, and it's intentional.

Yes, to some she's young and hip. But to me, she's acting quite below her age to worm her way into the kids' business and get friendly with them. I'm not judging her by her style, but her behavior.

I see the same thing with her being with Lupin. Did he even want to be with her? I don't believe that to be so. To me it's like she threw a tremendous fit, and giving in was the only way pacify her.

I just want to know "why she wants to be with him?" There's just so much that doesn't fit. You just can't build a lasting relationship off of one person's desperate tantrum.

I know this thread is a little old, but I had a weird sort of thought about Lupin/Tonks while I was sitting in my math class today. Plus I wanted to make a long-ish post about the books, which I haven't done in a while.

I feel like this romance has two and only two functions. The first is to give McGonagall her nice line -- "Dumbledore would have been happy to know that there's more love in the world." To me, it seems that JKR really wanted to hammer home that "love is the answer" point as the stage is set for the final battles, but she couldn't find a way to do it. So she invented some more sexual feelings where they don't exist; hey, it worked for Ron and Lavendar and Ginny and associated boyfriends, did it not?

Reason number two -- to dash any persistant fan beliefs that Lupin is going to turn into a "father figure" for Harry in Book Seven. Lupin is going to live. He has to survive to have his final showdown with Pettigrew, and at any rate, the "Harry loves _____, therefore, _____ must die" mold is getting a little old. But at the same time, the hero must go on alone. For this reason, JKR needs to sever all of Harry's emotional connections, with possible exceptions of Ron and Hermione. Lupin is perfectly set up to be Harry's new James -- they share a common past, they have endured common losses, and they are emotionally on par with one another in the aftermath of PoA. How can an author kill this relationship? By giving Lupin alternative emotional satisfaction, of course. Tonks will meet his needs; therefore, he will not feel as strong a bond with Harry; therefore, the hero continues alone AND Lupin lives.

I love how I've spent so much time totally bashing out JKR even though she's my favorite author in the world and I worship her. Honestly, I don't hate HBP by any stretch of the imagination. I'm just a little disappointed in the characterization as of late.

When people started going on about this ship before HBP, I kept thinking to myself that it's stupid, pointless, and therefore won't be in the book. That's what I don't like about this book.

And while I have no problems with people being changed because of a love (i.e Tonks being so sad through the whole book) it happens to everyone at one point or another, I really enjoyed Tonk's character in OotP, and was looking forward to her in HBP. But we didn't get Tonks, we got droopy!Tonks, and it was disappointing when we found out that the reason was not because she was being blackmailed by Voldemort to betray the Order (the thought crossed my mind during my first read, and I must say, I thought it quite clever on my part, to catch onto JKR's big surprise... ) but because she was in love, and furthermore, a love that just came out of no where.

I think you're right on with McGonagall's line, but I'm not so sure about the replacing Lupins affections.

Lupin was pretty much out of the picture in GoF, and slightly more prominant in OotP, but then disappeared again in HBP. The undercover werewolf assignment did that pretty thoroughly, I think. And since PoA, Harry hasn't really thought of Lupin as a protector, because he just wasn't there.

I do not really have anything against the Lupin/Tonks ship, but I just see no point in it. JK Rowling just put it in as a little side-happening...and I found it extremely unnecessary. I did not really get happy when the scene happened in the hospital wing, nor was I expecting it to happen....

Basiaccly, its not a horrible thing, but it is not going to affect the book in such a dramaitc way that we should really delve into how cute of a couple they are our what their life after Book 7 will be like.....



_daviD

i think that lupin and tonks will not get together because she can change her apperance and he is a werewolf she might not cope with it

You have no idea the feeling of pure happiness I felt when seeing this thread.

First of all...I don't like Tonks at all- and Lupin is my favorite character. Put them together makes a very unhappy me.
I think this relationship is odd and unnecessary. I felt like I was reading a fan-fic the entire time.

I think that Remus is the sweetest character in the books, and he deserves a quiet, understanding, caring, soft woman. Not Tonks. She's too young and...I don't know...out there. They just don't add up to me. They remind me of Harry/Ginny. Empty.

Now that the war has started, what do you bet one of them will die anyways? Just another cause for angst is all this relationship could end up being.

This pair annoyed me by the lack of foreshadowing and Tonks' behavior. Here is a woman doing a important and dangerous job allowing her emotions get the better of her, which could get someone killed. What made it even worse was seeing Harry and Ron's ideas about what was wrong with her and Hermione not calling them on it, especially Ron's sexist comments. It annoyed me so much that I wrote a theory about Tonks' behavior during the scene when Harry tried to enter the RoR. I hope to God JKR is setting up a plot twist in the next book about Tonks' or her ideas about females will cause me not to recommend her books to children.

I've refrained from posting in here or the pro-tonks/lupin thread, because I've still been trying to make up my mind. I like Lupin. Most of the time I like Tonks.....


But.....

As a couple??? Someone would really need to convince me to agree to this.

The big problem that I have with this- is very similar to my big problem with Harry and Ginny....

There's just nothing leading up to it. I didn't believe that Tonks was in love with Sirius, but I wasn't expecting her to be hung up about Remus and when that came out I was like... WHAT?!?!?!? I was predicting Bill above anyone else, but I have issues with him and Fleur which is a whole other story....

But it just came from nowhere. It really did look like they were trying to palm him off onto someone and she was the only available person there. There was no canon leading up to it and they seem like very different people to me.

Okay, I finally read your theory Nyphme, and it leaves with a lot to contemplate on. Would've read it sooner, but I honestly forgot all about this thread.

I have heard of this theory before. I've just never looked into it. I think it's definitely a possibility Draco could've been pretending to be Tonks. The discovery of Crabbe and Goyle transformed as younger girls proves that the Polyjuice Potion can enable one to change gender.

I'm just not sure whether or not I believe that individual to be Draco though. I don't see much evidence for it. Especially considering he had fled Hogwarts after Dumbledore died, and Tonks was present at the scene with Bill in the hospital wing and Dumbledore's funeral. Plus Tonks was present during the fighting going on in the corridors.

I am however, highly suspicious of Tonks' changes in behavior. Especiallu her sudden lack of clumsiness. Someone who is constantly depressed and distraught would likely be even clumsier than usual. That just does not make sense at all.

I think her lack of knowledge about Harry's contact with other Order members is arguable. If she's been on duty this whole time in Hogsmeade, she wouldn't know whether or not anyone has contacted Harry. Especially if it's just personal letter just to get Harry's spirits up.

Then again, I can't see anyone writing Harry aside from Mr. and Mrs. Weasley or Lupin, and Lupin obviously wouldn't be able to living amongst the werewolves. So Tonks would know that.

I'm still going to be open-minded about this theory. But I need someone to show the connections I'm going to be convinced of it.

Thanks for reading.

Nymphe, I read your essay and the accompanying one written by onlyinfatuated, and just wanted to say "Bravo! " It hits upon several aspects of Tonks' characterization in HBP that bothered me. I don't buy that she's just "lovesick." The clues that someone else (Draco) might be prowling around in sheep's clothing does make sense at several points.

There is one other things that just popped into my head as I was writing this and I don't think you addressed it. Tonks is the one who finds Harry in his train compartment after he's been beat up by Draco. She says she "checked" the compartment because the blinds were drawn yet she was able to easily locate Harry UNDER his Invisibility Cloak when he had not been missing all that long. Is that not a little suspicious? Maybe that's just a coincidence.

Thanks sweetie!

I'm definitely going to check into those links when I get more time. But I do have a question on my mind for the meanwhile.

If Tonks really is someone else, how comes Remus can't tell? I'm surprised he doesn't find her change in behavior more suspicious.

i don't want tonks to like lupin b/c he's so hott

MOD EDIT : Hi there Could you please check your inbox? I've just sent you a PM. Thanks.

I always thought this was a pretty silly, random ship, and could never understand why people squeed about it so much--there's no development at all (we just get told they love each other at the end, with no demonstration of it--again, JK told us instead of showing us, which is just bad writing), it comes completely out of left field, and seemed more like an attempt to pair everyone off while they were at it (I mean, Sweet Valley Hogwarts was already in full swing! Snogfest '96 had begun!), and there was no other eligible female around for Lupin--and god forbid he be gay or something (as so many slashers loved to imagine). I'm not a Remus/Sirius shipper by any means (I always thought that that was a rather random pairing as well--just b/c the only two friends still alive hug each other at seeing one another after so many years and both happen to be still surviving doesn't mean they loved each other! ), and I actually liked Tonks in OoTP (though she was just annoying and boring in HBP while all lovesick--another reason to dislike this ship, it ruins Tonks' character!) but I still dislike L/T for being so random and un-developed--I don't like being told that two people are in love and be expected to just squee and go along with it--"I have to see it to believe it" as they say, and I just don't see anything with Lupin/Tonks.

Even

Just another unconvincing ship in HP.....

Oh and after seeing Tonks in the fifth film, I'm just grossed out by the thought of her and Lupin in the film...just, ugh. She looks so young, and he so old....

I like Remus. I don't know why. I just do.

I also like Tonks. BUT I DO NOT LIKE THEM TOGETHER >.<.

First, I'm a Charlie/Tonks shipper. Second, she's too young for him. And third, REMUS IS MINE >:O

I'm not a big fan of this at all, although I think Tonks rocks, and Lupin is my favourite Marauder. They just don't fit. J.K.Rowling made a mistake here, not her only, but at least this is minore

You know, I never really thought that much about this ship. But I think there's a point to be made against this ship. I mean, it's not Ron and Hermione where that was developed slowly over all the books or Ginny and Harry, where she laid subtle ground work at first and then had them come together quickly.
JK just said that they were in love, and it's difficult to get a handle on this ship because it happened completely off screen. And then they had a kid...okay. Then JK killed both his parents to create a parallel situation with Harry, but instead, Teddy had an okay life. Whatever. She could have handled the situation much better. I don't live in her head, so I don't know Tonks and Lupin like she does, and I never will. So maybe they are perfect for each other, but we can't know unless she tells us in the right way.

I think the whole idea with Tonks, Lupin, their relationship, their child, and their deaths is stupid. I hate it all. Their relationship was completely unnecessary. It added less to the story than any other relationship. Lupin deserved someone better, in my opinion. Tonks is clumsy and ditzy to me, and Lupin just...needs someone better than that. Tonks is a *nice* (thanks Ellen ) person, no doubt, but I have never liked her.

Having Teddy...I just don't even know how they had time for that. Like...whoa. Also kind of unnecessary, especially since she just kills Tonks and Lupin for no reason at all. Geez, we didn't even get to see them die. I thought it was kind of an insult to the characters and the fans.

I just...don't much care for this relationship.

PirateGirl, one of the ships I like is Severus/Hermione. So... I mean, does age really have to matter that much? I don't think that should be a factor.

The reason I don't like this ship is because of Teddy: Tonks and Remus weren't responsible enough to have a child. Remus started living in the past again when the war started, I think, and Tonks was just too young in general. I think they wanted it done before the war got really nasty so that it was said and done. But if you really love someone it shouldn't matter... sorry, getting off on the wrong foot here, haha.

I think JKR just has an issue with wanting orphaned children in each generation, but to show they are welcomed into each family. It's still weird, nevertheless.

A mice person, Droobs? Does that mean she was half mouse, half human Sorry, way too easy .
I liked Tonks enough, I guess. I never thought about her all that much. I don't think she's a ditz, though. Or at least nothing her age can't excuse her for, since she was 21 in OotP. And does it take much time to do the making of a baby , again too easy. Boy, I'm on fire! No, anyway I don't think the baby was planned.
Yeah, one of the things that I can't get past with DH is how she did Lupin in. I don't have as many problems with the last book as some people, but Lupin deserved better! I was so hoping for a multiple perspective book for the last one. She had reason to kill them, the reason I posted in the last post I made. I don't know, maybe it would have been different if she gave them a good death scene, like Fred. He got a good one.
mugglelovrspew, I agree. But like I said, I don't think Teddy was planned. But yeah, she was too young and he wasn't ready either, really.
I guess I'm more mildly opposed to this ship, but not really raging about it. I'm probably the least opposed to it than anyone here.

Well, I do think age matters. I think the gap between Hermione and Snape is too large, but that's for another thread. Tonks/Lupin is a bit weird because Sirius and Lupin are the same age, but Tonks was Sirius's cousin's daughter. So...that age thing there seems weird to me. I guess I'm just one of those people who likes relationship ages to be in the same decade...

Gosh, Ellen, way to pick me apart! I know it doesn't take long to make it, but I wouldn't consider being pregnant a real field day. I think it would be made a little harder to do during a war against Voldemort. Course...what book was Teddy born in?

Yeah, I just think Lupin and Tonks deserved a death scene at the very least. Though, if I had my way, he wouldn't have died at all. I'd need to read the seventh book again to be able to come to a solid conclusion about it, but just from one read, I found it rather disappointing.

Yeah, I agree, sadly. The two biggest highlights of the book for me were Ron destroying the horcrux and hugging Harry, I cried so much at that part I could barely read the page, and then Ron and Hermione's kiss. It just wasn't the stellar ending I was hoping for. Maybe it's because I figured out more than half of the BIG SHOCKING plot twists before they happened. Like Kreacher's deal, Harry's horcrux scar, and of course Snape loving Lily. That was something I actually had in the back of my head when I first read PoA.
Sorry hon, you know I kid .
No being pregnant is no walk in the park, but like I said, I don't think he was planned. So Tonks kind of had to make time to be pregnant.
Age isn't really an issue for me, I guess. Maybe it's because I've always believed that age is greatly overrated when determining maturity. Since I've known some truly stupid and immature adults, and on the same token some level headed young people who speak far beyond their years. So younger and older people getting together, as long as it's all legal, doesn't bother me that much in principle.
Like I said before, Lupin deserved better, and really so did Tonks. It's one thing to kill Colin Creevy off screen, it's completely another to do it to Lupin. I mean, freak'n Hedwig got a better death scene.

Pregnancy rates go up during wartime (people trying to preserve their immortality).

Lupin-Tonks violates no taboos as they were not related, he was not in a position of authority over her (like Snape-Hermione), and they were both of age. As far as the age difference, she was in her early twenties and he was in his late thirties.


Per the timeline at hp-lexicon, Lupin was born in 1959 and Tonks was born in 1973. They were married in 1997, so Lupin would be 38 and Tonks would be 24 at the time of the wedding.

No death scenes for either, but JKR felt she had to kill off some major characters at the end. "It just happened" and I don't have enough room in my page allotment to describe it.

No one can explain how much I dislike RemusXTonks -.- God, they deserve other people. Personally I hate Tonks sooooooo -12 decades filled with so later- much Tonks is such a weak female character. She acts just like Bella Swan T-T 1. Their both clumsy 2. They both love werewolves 3. They get all depressed when they don’t have someone that loves them in their lives 4. They got married with people way too old for them 5. They care about no one except themselves 6. They both need a man in their lives to be happy. And a whole bunch of other reasons that will take too long. This is kind of weird, but if you have heard of the Avalon Series by Rachel Roberts, I think Remus looks good with Adriane Charday. She’s sweet and she knows what it’s like to be a loner, she has a sense of humor, she is more understanding, she doesn’t need a man in her life to be happy, and she is smart.

RemusXAdriane= Actual <3

This one never worked for me. Tonks needs someone bright and bubbly and happy. Remus, I've never really liked him anyways. I always pictured him dying alone, as sad as it may sound. Tonks should have gotten together with Charlie Weasley. They attended Hogwarts at about the same time (They were both born in 1973, but Charlie's birthday is in December, so he'd be a year younger than Tonks). They probably got to know eachother a bit, even though they were in different houses.