Ok...I was thinking yesterday and this just popped into my head!
If it's already been said then please delete this!

Well, we all know that seven is the most magic of numbers; you know The 7 Horcurxes of Voldermort, Harry being born in July; the 7th month and so on.

Well, I was thinking that maybe Harry and Voldermort are going to duel 7 times and on the 7th something is going to happen e.g. one dies or something like that.

We now need to know thime times that Harry and Voldemort have faced each other:

1. When Harry's parents died

2. In the Philosopher's Stone in front of the Mirror of Erised

3. In the Chamber of Secrets

4. In the grave yeard in the Goblet of Fire

5. In the Ministry of Magic in the Order of the Phoenix

So, going by my theory, Harry and Voldermort are going to face each other twice in the 7th and final book and in the 7th battle on of them is going to die!

I see what you saying here, seven big numbers and yeah I guess it will link up with LV and Harry fight twice, in the last book.

-the first could be when LV spot Harry and the crow trying to destroys one of his Horcurxes

-the last could be the final duel, that link to the prophesy.

However, I have a feeling that Harry will see LV move than just twice in the seventh book, I do not know?

Anyway good theory

This is a really good catch, I think that you may be on to something. I don't think that they will meet excessively in the 7th book becasue it would just be too repetitive: "Harry barely escapes for the fourth time, leaving his blood behind." Too boring, the meetings need to be well for lack of a better word, special. because they need to be drawn out, extensive and action packed. One could be by coincidence and the other by desire to duel. This is good, I like this one.

I like your theory. It really has some good qualaties. I never could of thought about that in a million years...Would you consider the battle in the lightning struck tower one of the duels??

Actually that is a really good theory. Well, the number sevon does play alot in the books, seven weasly children... and i could see harry and voldemort battling more than just once

I have to agree that it is a good theory, and although I didn't post on this, this is one thing I have been thinking over ever since I read 'Anne's Theory' in the Discussions columns, because it talks a lot about how many times Harry will face Voldemort.

I think Harry has to face Voldemort more than just at the end in the last book or it would be a little tedious and predictable wading through all of the destroying of the Horcruxes before we got a glimpse of the real action.

I think sexy-lass has hit the nail on the head when she says that Harry will meet up with Voldemort somewhere along the line when he's destroying the 5th Horcrux. I dont really want to explain why I think this because I'm working it into my fanfic and if one of my readers comes across this then they'll know what I'm doing with it. Sufficed to say that I am positive Harry will face Voldemort twice. Nice pickup magic master

harry may very well face voldy more than once in the next book. and while that means added danger and peril for our dear friend and his comrades...it means fun reading for us!

hopefully harry will encounter voldy multiple times throughout the next book and escape at least the preliminary couple.

also, its logical. voldy will know that they are going after horcruxes and will most likely try to ambush harry at one of the locations.


i cant believe we gotta wait three years for this....UGH

I totally agree about the whole 7 theory. harry will most definatley face voldermort at least twice in the 7th book. Everyone alse agrees with this theory and so do i. Its seems that it will beacuase seven is a powerful number, magical or muggle type.But ive also thought about how harry is going to kill him. (him as in voldermort of cource)But thats something different.

Really good idea. I completely agree with it. Fighting Voldemort twice in the last book seems to suit me quite nicely. And no Daniel Potter, Voldemort wasn't even at Hogwarts at the time, so that wouldn't count as a fight.

Maybe Harry and Voldy will battle once more, but, who do you think will die? I mean, one had to get the axe...unfortunately...it will probably be Harry *sigh*

I dont really subscribe to many of the ntheories on the site, but i have to admitt, yours seems very good. Seven is the most powerful magic number and since he has already faced old Volders five times, another two is entirely plausible.

I agree with the general consensus, scarhead (just kidding) and ol Volders probably will meet up once or twice before the "final showdown" Maybe when Harry kills Nigini... though if i were him i would keep her untilk last since volders will most definatly miss her (or it is a him)

Just my two cents, im at the library and i just dropped in the check the forum!

I cant wait for Volders to die. I just want him to burn to death, and then, if that isnt good enough, Avada Kedavra!

I have to say, very impressive brain work here! Well, I think this is very logical. I can actually picture Harry encountering Voldy once, narrowly escaping, and then again at the end of the book. But, I don't know how on Earth JK is going to fit two encounters with Voldy in book seven, much less everything else. I mean, honestly. But, other than that, very plausible.

roonil_wazlib-that is a good question there. How will she do it? I guess we will have to wait.

Hi there, please check out the rules here. One liners and very short are not allowed on the vtm forum. Thanks Shane

Ooops...sorry about that. It won't happen again--I hope. So, does anyone have a clue as to what will happen in the final battle?

Great theory magic master, but in COS Harry didn't actually fight Voldy, he destroyed a horcrux and fought a Basilisk. Does that mean one of the seven duels will be with Nagini, so he actually only fights voldy once more?

It could well be that Harry has to kill Nagini.

To Daniel Potter's question, I don't know what will happen in the final battle. The wands of Harry and Voldemort don't work against each other usually. However, maybe at the seventh battle they might as seven is such a powerful number.

Just another theory.

Oooh. For some reaosn, as I read your post, I got the creeps.
Neither can live while the other survives....
Ahhhhh! I hope Voldy gets the axe *slit*

I wonder if the number seven will be significant in other ways too.

I am seriously thinking about putting money on a release date of 07/07/07 !!! (And it is a Saturday, as is the norm!)

But with regards to the story, knowing the characters as we do will Harry, Ron and Hermione really get away with setting off to fight Voldemort alone? I wonder if the power of seven young wizzards (including Harry and Neville, who I still think may prove very important!) may be just what is needed to overpower him.

p.s. I love the signature of Daniel Potter! Did you make it yourself?

I agree with the seven duel theory. It also seems to me the case that one of Harry's close friends will die in the fight with Voldermort. Since, in each of those fights with Voldermort one or more people has died. Notice: Harry's parents, the dark art's teacher, part of voldermort's soul, Cedric, Sirius. So far Harry has lost a parent like figure and a teacher. To completely harden Harry for his ultimate fate of having to kill Voldermort it seems to me a loss of close friend is neccesary. I hope it is not Ron or Hermione but it seems very likely. It is probably Herminone because she has been aiding Harry with information that has proven useful to him in his fight with Voldermort.
-harryBD

I don't think Voldemort will try to ambush Harry at one of his horcruxes like someone previously suggested. We mustnt forget that he still thinks that noone knows about them. It is more likely that Harry will encounter him at a location that LV could predict he would visit. Like Godric's Hollow or the the Burrow, for example. If all else fails he could just lure him closer by letting Harry somehow know where Snape is hiding. LV knows that would get Harry going.

A further question that has been raised is how JK will be able to condense the entire plot into one final book...having to destroy all the Horcruxes etc. I honestly think that Harryt will only have to destroy two Horcruxes. Nagini and one of the other objects. The RAB character will have cleared some of the path for Harry. Not only does this shorten the plot, but also makes it more credible to the reader, as it is unlikely that Harry (as a relatively inexperienced wizard) would be able to destroy all the Horcruxes (I mean DD lost a hand by merely destroying one). Nevertheless, he will track all of them down I think...even if they have alreadt been destroyed by RAB.

Just some thoughts...What do you folks think?

wow. this is increadible. so many people pay so much attention to the smallest things and it turns out to make a lot of sense...
i applaud you on your thinking and inquiry, it could even show up in the book! you have the mind of a true jkr fan...searching for the hidden clues...who'd of thought 7 duels? thats amazing. 7 fights for freedom. 7 duels to end them all. 7 the most powerful number, would determine how the wizarding world would continue on. i cant wait for the 7th book!!!

Urbmaxxx has come up with an excellent question there...how will the plot be compacted into the end? If Harry only does have to destroy two horcruxes, which is keeping in with my theory of seven duels, I think one be Nagini but thr other will have to Voldemort himself won't it; as he still haas a part of his soul inside him?

And I thank acdcrocks for those glowing compliments!

Wow. There have been alot of posts since my last visit to this thread. I like Magic Master's idea. It is true that Voldemort should still have a piece of his sould left inside him, otherwise, he wouldnt be walking around in-the-flesh. If this is the case, maybe there are 8 Horcruxes????

muggle-marauderess--Which siggy are you talking about? I had one with a tree squishing some little monster from LOTR, and then there is my present one. hmmmmm

Urbmaxxx has some good points. The thing is, I don't think he knew about RAB and DD knowing about the horcruxes. He wanted RAB dead because he deserted him. He wanted DD out of the way so his path to Harry was clear. I mean, if DD is there, Harry will always have protection. I don't think that RAB would've been able to destroy all of the horcruxes. DD got two (the ring and the fake) and lost his hand, then his life. I think that only a few DEs actually know about them, as it said in book four (from memory): "You knew of the steps I took to escape mortality." Something like that, so some DEs do know about the horcruxes, no?

Now, back on topic. So...the duels so far...harry as a baby, harry and Quirrel (does that count?), harry and Riddle, harry and Voldy at his ressurection, harry and Voldy at the MoM...so that's...five. If Harrry duelling with Quirrel counts, then wouldn't it make sense that Harry killing Nagini while Nagini is being controlled by Voldy count too? I still don't know how Voldy will meet Harry again. Voldy doesn't know that Harry knows about the horcruxes and even though DD is gone, he won't be able to get into Hogwarts. Waaait...yanno that protection DD put on Privet Drive? The spell will be lifted once Harry turns 17? Well...there's a month before school starts after Harry turns 17. I think that this will give Voldy and the DEs and opprotunity to ambush Harry. And Harry will legally be allowed to use magic!! Hwa!! Am I brilliant or what? Kidding.

Anyways...great theories here. JK really has a lot on her plate. Maybe this means there will be an eighth book!! @.@

Daniel Potter: There are only 7 Horcruxes (not 8) including the bit inside Voldemort. Dumbledore says so in the "Horcrux" chapter in HBP.

Roonil_Wazlib: I like your idea about Voldemort ambushing Harry at Privet Drive. What I have wondered for a while is if there is a spell that allows a wizard to know where his opponent has apparated to. Because Harry could just disapparate and disappear before LV gets a chance to capture him. I mean this holds true for every encounter or duel. Why did the Longbottoms, Potters and all the other wizards not apparate when they were outnumbered and threatened. You might say they aren't cowards and they would stand and fight but i still think there must be a way to know where a wizard apparates to.

Ok, to get back to the topic... I honestly believe that Voldemort quietly fears having to face Harry. Perhaps fear is the wrong word but i reckon that after his encounter in the DOM when he couldnt possess Harry, has at least made him respect Harry more. I dont think he still sees him as this boy who by sheer luck managed to escape him. He sees him as a serious threat (not just because of the prophecy) and is going about Harry's capture more carefully. Killing DD was essential in his plan.

Bajab makes a very important observation. Snape did attend to DD's injuries. I doubt, however, that DD told him about the Horcruxes explicitly. Also, I am not sure whether Snape would recognise the injury as one caused by a Horcrux. Nevertheless, he would wonder what caused the injury and would have reported to LV. Certainly, LV would know what injury his own curse would cause and would thus have recognised that DD destroyed one of his horcruxes.

For Harry to have an element of surprise when he faces LV at the end would require Snape to keep his mouth shut. That, in turn, would mean that Snape is on Harry's side because he didnt tell LV. Either that or LV knows that Harry knows about his Horcruxes. and as I believe that Harry will have the element of surprise at the end would practically prove that Snape is not on LV's side.

Just as a side note, the i thought the protection given to Harry by Lilly's death had already been circumvented when Voldy used harry's blood. Didn't he say he now shares that protection and then went on to try and kill Harry there and in the MoM? (If harry was still protected from Voldemort an AK would have rebounded again).

My List of Duels so far matches roonil_wazlib
Harry Vs Voldy as a baby
Harry Vs Quirrel/Voldy
Harry Vs Tom Riddle Diary (Voldy Horcrux)
Harry Vs Voldy in Graveyard
Harry Vs Voldy in MoM

So if the other Horcruxes are objects that are not aware like the Diary, could leave.

Harry Vs Nagini (Voldy Horcrux)
Hary Vs Voldy

I like this idea

I agree with Urbmaxx...I definately don' think there'll be 8 horcruxes...the whole point of having seven is that its the most powerfull magical number!

With bajab points of Voldenmort having Harry's blood...yes Voldemort can touch Harry without feeling unbearable pain but I think the spell that Dumbledore put on the Dursley's home is something different!

Sorry for the side-trackedness above.....

With bajab again....that is the list of duels which I agree with also as with the other horcruxes!

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Hi! I'm new to this...so bear with me.

I kinda agree about the 7-duel theory, since it does play a lot in the story. I also think, that when Harry and Voldemort do meet, the first one, won't be a violent battle, more like a confrontation...either one could ask the other to meet and talk. Voldemort would be the one to ask Harry to come and meet him...maybe to learn if Harry knows about the Horcruxes since he's a master at legilimens. The last duel would be where all the action's gonna be.

Just a thought...i don't think Harry would survive or escape on an earlier violent confrontation. He's not ready yet...He needs to learn more magic.

I wouldn't really think Harry would meet Voldemort if Voldemort asked him. I mean he tries to avoid him after all doesn't he? I think they will meet and probably duel properly when Harry has the last horcrux to deastroy- Voldemort himself!

The number 7, is a very big thing in these series. The other day there was a post about some 7 names, wich I found was very interesting, and yet, very informing. I think there could be the posibilty not of 7 duels, but 7 encounters. I mean, harry hasn't dueled Voldemort five times...Just encountered him, or battled with him.

This number 7 theory can get us very far. I mean, people are making number 7 theories left and right!

Anyways, I'm with you on this. I think that this might actully hapen, and plus, 7 of everything.

I don't know if the seven 'ecounters' thing stared above could work? If Voldemort and Harry encounter each other then they're obvisouly going to want and try and kill each other are they?

I think, and I think I've said this before, that something special is going to happen on the seventh duel.

It's just a thought!

I definately don't think that Harry will willingly meet up with Voldy. It's like walking into a gas chamber of you own free will. Harry's not stupid. Voldy has been trying to kill Harry for sixteen years, I really don't think that he's going to let one shot slip through his fingers so they could have a lovely chat about "means and ways" (DD is awesome!).

Remember, Voldy thinks that nobody knows about the Horcruxes. Besides, he has seven horcruxes, doesn't he? He'd rather have Harry dead than lose a horcrux.

But anyways, yes, I too believe that Harry will have an encounter. Not a duel or a fight/battle, more just Harry meets a couple of DEs and then Voldy pops in, tries to do something but I dunno, escapes 'cause the Phoenix lot show up.

But I still support the being ambushed at Privet Drive thing!! Good opening for the story too!

Hmmm.......an ambush in Privet Drive would be an excellent opening to the book but isn't that too much like the opening of the OotP?

I don't think JKR would do something so similar. As for an ecounter or duel in Privet Drive....possible. You never know Privet Drive may have some hidden magic hidden admist its boring and surburban image?

I agree with your seven duel theory,its pretty good. but if your counting Harry and voldemort in the chamber of secrets which was a horcrux not voldemort himself as a duel,then you would have to count when Harry destroys the rest of the horcruxes as duels with voldemort right? so that would make the theory of harry meeting with voldemort twice wrong. there would have to be one horcrux he destroys..and then onto voldemort. unless you mean because the diary horcrux actually had a chance to come back and nearly gain power and was a voldemort form and not just a diary only then does it count as a duel? hope that makes sense!

anyway..a seven theory i thought of..maybe it will be seven people will die when harrys around. weve already had cedric,sirius and dumbledore. two of which he was close to..and we know there will be deaths in the seventh book for definate that would leave four more. what do you think?

I'm using the 'duel' in the Chamber of Secrets becasue Harry actually met Voldelmort face-to-face. Maybe duel IS the wrong word...confrontation may be better!

The killing of seven people with Harry is a very good idea. Would you include Quirrel in that list as he did die when Harry was a round also.

Yeah i thought you meant that. So if one of the other horcruxes was to gain voldemort form before harry found it that could be another way for them to meet two times in the book without it getting tiresome.

And im not too sure about the quirrels death thing..i was thinking of good people dying around Harry so it affects him because quirrels death didnt much. but quirrel did still die around harry so maybe that would count. what do you think?

Hmmm...... don't know really but if we do include Quirrel i the list of people who die when Harry is there in the person we could have as many as 6:

1. James Potter
2. Lily Potter
3. Professor Quirrel
4. Cedric Diggory
5. Sirius Black
6. Professor Dumbledore

However, it could be when Harry actually saw death. This would count Quirrel out. I don't know if Harry saw his parents die? We have to presume he didn't because he couldn't see the threastrals until he saw Cedric die. But wasn't he in the same room as Lily when she died?

Yeah he must of been in the same room for her to protect him. Yeah i think we shouldnt count quirrel as he only saw the thestrals with cedric. good point there.
so now whos it gonna be that he sees die in book 7? voldemort will obviously be the 7th.

I agree with the 7 deaths theory. ALso if he has seen Cedric, Sirius and Dumbledore die and he will see Voldermort die then I am sorry to say that the amount of deaths is three and that could mean Ron, Hermione and Ginny (the people he cares for the most. Also I recently read an essay which also confirmes the seven duels theory wrong it is here I sincerely hope i'm wrong about Ron, Hermione and Ginny but it could be

Yes.....the seven deaths theoy is very intreging!

Including Voldemort, we presume Harry has seen or will see 4 people die. The other three could really be anyone but I have a feeling Snape will be one of them and either Ron or Hermione and a member of the Order!

But it really could be anyone!

Yeah it could be! I hope we are right lol. but i think one of the trio will die! which is bad! maybe he will see bellatrix die? but..remember voldemort might not be the seventh death harry see's. as dumbledore said voldemort needs to learn there are more things worse than death which could mean voldemort will get something worse than death! meaning harry wont see him die..technically.

It may make sense for Harry to die if the prophecy is indeed talking about him and it would tie into how Dumbledore says that there are worse things than death. As I've been repeating (just trying to make a point!), the prophecy says that one of them just has to survive...

SO Harry might die, then Voldemort would survive but in a horrible and possibly demeaning way for him. Such as confined to a horcrux or something. Everyone might think he is dead, but really Harry might have forgotten to destroy one last horcrux so he'd just be a piece of a soul sitting somewhere.

Does this belong in this thread?

I don't think so...lol . We're talking about the significance of the number seven either in duels/confrontations between Harry and Voldemort or the number of people Harry sees dieing.

I dont know if there is any relevance in this but remember when harry set free the snake in the zoo and it was planning on going to brazil maybe voldemort was in brazil in his not quite dead but not quite alive form, and met the snake harry let loose and that snake is now Nagini

I do believe one of the two will die in the 7th confrontation.
I think there will be 2 battles between the 2 in the seventh book however so far there has only been one big battle in all of the rest of the books. But it seems to me that book 7 will obviously have more than 1 big confrontation in it considering he is going to have to have one with Snape.
So 7 being the most powerful magical number would mean that during their 7th battle Harry and Voldemort will be at their sharpest.

I'm completetly with this 7 duels thing but I was wondering if in the chamber of secrets really counts as a duel wiht Voldemort as it was just a horcrux- and if destroying horcruxes counts as duelling then surely they would ahve more than 2 confrontations in the 7th book. So maybe CoS wasn't a duel, so there are three coming in book 7.

quortimer makes an good point here....does a horcrux count. I think it might as the horcrux is a part of Voldemort's soul so therefore is Voldemort; and the projection of Voldemort through the diary was real, almost. I therefore think that this duel does counts.

But this is only my opinion