Why did DD freeze harry, when he was under the invisibility cloak ?
why did he wasye his precious time ?? was it because he didn't wan't harry to play fool in his master-plan ??? or is there some other explanation ?? (except for harry's safety and all that ****....)

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It was for Harry's protection. DD probably assumed that the DE's would either Kill Harry if they knew he was there, or take him to Voldy. Or that Draco, being the pratt he is, would possibly even try to kill Harry. Unfortunantly, as we now know, The DE's had no intention of either killing or taking Harry that night, so It seems DD may have not had to pertify harry (and in doing so loose his wand rendering him unab le to fight back) after all.

I did confuse me as well. But after re-reading the whole last few chapters, I see what he thought could happen. He hd already stated in the chapter, "The Cave", that harry's blood was important. No for anything other than telling us and harry that he would rather something happen to him and not Harry. I think in reality, Dumbledore would rather something ahppen to himself than any of his students for that matter.

In true Dumbledore fashion, he made sure harry was able to see, but survive the encounter. He needs Harry to continue on. The fact is that Dumbledore entrusted the Horcrux secret to him for a reason. harry has to do it. And if it meant putting a full body bind on him to ensure he would be allowed to fight another day, then he would do it. It surprised me Dumbledore was so quick on the uptake really. He knew, right away, what was up. he didn't blink an eye.

My take on thisi was a little different.

Dumbledore knew Harry would try and do anything he could to save Dumbledore if needed. I think Dumbledore knew Draco wouldn't actually kill him, but Dumbledore asked for Snape when he and Harry arrived back at the castle and saw the Death Mark.

Dumbledore asked for Snape because he wanted Snape to kill him, and I think he had already told Snape to do this in certain situations. That's what he and Snape were fighting about in the forest when Hagrid overheard them.

Thus, my answer to this thread is that Dumbledore stupefied Harry so that Harry could not interfere when Snape killed Dumbledore himself.

I believe that DD froze Harry for a number of reasons like to protect him from the battle and to prevent him from interfering with Snape.

One thing that has not been mentioned is how DD seems to have a soft spot for Draco (kind of like pity). I think that DD had a pretty good idea who was coming out the door and he wanted to prevent Harry from killing Draco. I have no doubt that if Harry saw Draco burst through the door, wand in hand, that he wouldn't have hesitated to blast him with the Septumsempra (Sp?).

i think snape killing DD is a big scheme the order cooked up and DD froze harry so he wouldnt try to interefere with snape and screw up the plan. the DEs and Voldy will now have a flase sense of security because they dont know that the only person that can kill voldy is harry.

just a thought.

but half of the order members were in the hospital wing after the whole incident, and they were totally shocked by what had happened. if it had all been planned by the Order, why did McGonagall fall weak-kneed and need a chair? why did Lupin lose control? harry said he had never seen Lupin lose control like he did then. i suppose they could have been acting, but they would have to have been excellent actors to trick Harry.
though saying that, he was in shock too, so i doubt he would have been paying them all close attention anyway.

i agree that LV and the DE's will have a false sense of security now though. they've just killed (supposedly!) the greatest wizard ever, the only one he ever feared, so now their path is clear.
all but Harry, and i don't think LV ever found out that Harry has to kill LV. unless Snape told LV, do you think it's possible that DD told Snape about the prophecy? i remember him saying at the beginning of HBP that only he and Harry knew about the prophecy,-when they were in the broom shed- but he's had a whole book to tell Snape what the prophecy contained.

i can only think DD froze Harry here to stop Harry from interfering with the Death. i don't know about the Order knowing the plan, but i think Snape and DD had arranged everything, and DD didn't want Harry to jump in and mess things up. and then there's the fact that he probably knew who was coming, and that DEs would soon arrive, and he didn't want Harry to get hurt (not knowing that LV didn't want the DEs to hurt Harry at that time).

I think Dumble froze Harry to protect him.

He knew the castle had been penatrated and was under attack because of the Dark Mark, and he was aware there was a plan (though not specific details) of some sort being formulated by Draco on Voldemorts orders. He heard the footsteps in the stairwell beyond the door, and thought most likely it would be an aggressor/s, and as he was in no condition to fight, he chose to take Harry out of the picture so he would not be harmed/killed or taken in the ensuing situation.

I believe Dumbledore had hoped to reach Snape first, then Snape and his proven excellent healing skills would have been enough to give DD enough of his strenght to fight properly, however when it became likely the person to reach the tower first would be a death eater or Draco even, then suddenly the idea of using Snape as a healer, infront of all the other DE's was impossibile. Snape had taken the unbrakeable Vow, and knowing the target was DD, and knowing Draco couldn't do it, Snape had no choice.

Possible scenario : Snape is working as a double agent, undercover, and he has become rather valuable to Voldemort, so DD pleads with Snapes to have the guts and go through with killing him to save many other lives, not just his, including Draco, Narcissa, Lucius and Snape most directly. Though I get the feeling Snapes death would be a tragic loss when it comes to winning this war.

It was what they had been dreading to come to pass, but they were locked into this sad sorry situation and had to make the choices. I definiely think the look of repulsion on Snapes face when he blew DD away was very much a reflection of self-loathing as anything else.
Anyway, Harry would most definitely been killed on that tower, trying to defend DD, though I personally doubt Harry would use the sectumsempra spell on Draco again anytime soon, the results had horrified him in the bathroom. I think DD wanted to save Draco because he was an innocent in all of this, being bullied under threat of his families anniellation(sp) from Voldemot. Draco is mean and cruel and snotty, but he is not a killer.

IMHO, If Harry were unfrozen, he would have been killed up there, and more than likely Snapes cover would have been blown trying to protect him, so it would have been an awful scenario. DD definitely did the right thing by keeping Harry out of it, though Harry cant see it yet


MOD NOTE: I'm moving this topic into the HBP forum where it seems to be more relevant.

I think Dumbledore froze Harry so that Harry wouldn't kill Draco. Dumbledore's main objective was helping Draco maintain his innocence, which is to say he didn't want Draco to become a murderer. Dumbledore also knew that should Draco actually try to kill him, Harry would kill Draco to save him. He didn't want Harry to become a killer either, and he knew that if he didn't freeze him, he would have killed Draco.

I am going to throw my suggestion out there, but you need to be on the DD's alive train to agree with me.

Her goes...
I think that DD knew exactly was was going on, he tells Draco that he had known a along right, I think this was really true. Going to the cave, passing Rosmerta hence letting Draco go about his plan. I say this because DD froze Harry not only to protect him and keep him from interfering with DD's plan. I think that DD wanted to stage his death, preserving Draco and using Snape (whether snape really wanted to kill him or if he was following orders) getting Voldy to trust Snape completely. By freezing Harry, harry is convinced that DD is dead, Draco is now a death eater and Snape is bad. Plus he tells the Order what happened, they are shocked and they immediatley beleive he is dead and Snape and Draco are bad. Now DD has free reign to continue his business without anyone knowing he is still alive, except SNAPE (only if he is good of course). Harry can lean on himself for the first time. I think it was all preplanned and HArry was suppose to witness it all. THat is why DD froze Harry

i think he froze harry so harry would not ruin is plan. dumby had to die to tell harry the truth. that it was he, harry, that would havet o fight voldy alone. and for his own safety is highly doubtful. because in the prophecy one must kill the other. and in my past expirence with prophecies they are always fulfilled. so no one can kill harry or voldy. they can only kill each other. harry couldve died on the night him and ron went to go meet aragog. but by some lucky chance the car came out of nowhere. harry couldve been kissed by the dementor. but by lucky chance he was saved by lupin who could develop a patronus. u see what i mean. it has always been harry kill voldy or voldy kill harry. dumbldore couldve killed voldy if he wanted in the minisrty. but by chance, dumbledore chose not too. becuase he knew harry must.

Padfoot, your theory is the one that i am leaning most heavily towards at the moment, and you've actually simplified my thoughts a little at the same time.

like i said before, i am in two minds about whether or not DD did actually die or not, but your explanation is a strong factor towards DD surviving. if he is alive, he can help guide Harry. now, i know Harry will have to find the horcruxes and finish LV himself, but i remember Harry thinking about DD's strong aura (something about never seeing magic sensed and performed like DD was doing) back in the cave, and what DD said about magic leaving a mark.
do you think it's possible that maybe Harry sensing DD would mean DD could guide him to the horcruxes without Harry realising he is?

just a thought, of course. and it isn't proof that i believe he isn't dead, but your explanation about freezing Harry to stage his death is a very interesting idea, so i just thought i'd see what you think about this.

i agree with those who stated it, DD froze harry so he wouldnt interfere with snape killing him, Snape made the vow and it needed to be kept, DD wanted snape to remain alive. If Harry wasnt frozen then he would have dissarmed draco, draco would have gone to prison and snape would have died for not keeping the vow. DD wanted snape alive for some reason, i believe it is so he can assist harry after he is gone, proof of this comes when harry is chase'n snape off of the school grounds Snape has allready begun teaching harry what he needs to learn to kill voldemort....close your mind, and mouth he says to him, i dont think you teach someome your try'n to kill, doesnt make sense.

I'm totally with you padfoot

I think Dumbledore froze Harry because he wanted to protect Harry, he didn't want Harry to interfere with the plan, AND he needed a witnes who could tell everybody what happened.

This gives DD time to go after to horcruxes without putting Harry in danger, and if he succeeds in destroying the Horcruxes, (I think he willl findthem alot faster than Harry will) Harry will be able to kill the last piece, Lord Voldemort.


That's what I think

ow..did JKR really confirmed it in an interview? I haven't heard about that... I was acctually pretty confinced that DD wasn't really dead. Check out this site if you want to know why:
www.dumbledoreisnotdead.com
But if JKR has said it...I guess I have to give up my hope that the most powerfull wizard of all time is dead...

But I still think he needed a witnes

Id like to read that interview. Time and time again rumors are made up on the spot. JKR said this, i read it somewhere....most of the time she dident say it, someone thought she "might" have said something and the next thing we know its being called a fact. Dont believe it unless you read it on her webisite, or from a website she links to with one of her interviews.

Dumbledore did not want harry to interfere between him and malfoys........IF dumbledore froxe harry it was because he knew malfoys was there....so if he knew...why does he let malfoys do waht he wants????Because it was what dumbledore wants! i mean ....harry is able to do magic without a wand...so dumbledore should be able too?!? SO he could have disappear or kill malfoys I personnaly think that dumbledore had plan all this but i think that we will hear about hima lot in the 7 book.

THAt my theory!

I agree that Harry like Dumbledor could perform magic without his wand........The glass disappearing in the snake house and blowing up his aunt. Dumbledor should have been able to disarm Draco with just his thoughts. As to why He didn't, I think we will have to wait until the seventh book to find out.

As for Dumbledor being really dead, don't forget the scene at His funeral......." He was crying quite silently, His face gleaming with tears, and in His arms, wrapped in purple velvet spangled with golden stars, was what Harry knew to be Dumbledors's body".

At no time does JKR state that anyone knows that what Hagid laid on the table. " Hagrid seemed to have placed the body carefully upon the table". Dumbledor's body may not even been wrapped and lying on the table, for all we know.

I know there is a portrait of dumbledor in the headmistresses office now, but that may only be there to help convince voldemort and His followers that He is really dead.

This is another thing which adds to the "DD is not dead"-theory. If his death was not planned, and all happened by destiny, why did DD freeze Harry instead of blocking Draco's spell and disarm him? Harry would with no doubt have interfered with the situation.

It gave DD the perfect witness to what happened. When they first arrived at Hogwarts, the only thing DD asked Harry was to fetch Snape, don't talk to anyone else, keep your cloak on and find Snape.

Woo bravo to everybody. Love the theories. I'm going to throw out one of mine (since i'm curious as to where to do this because i'm new) if nobody minds.

Now, am I really the only one who thinks that Snape is still on dumbledore's side? Yes, snape killed dumbledore and now he's a BAD MAN and he's helping draco oh noes! But maybe not..?

Dumbledore stated in the fifth book when battling voldemort "We both know there are worse things than death, Tom." What if this pain that dumbledore was feeling was WORSE than death and he wanted it to end? It stated that dumbledore was pleading with snape "severus...please..." (or something along those lines) he said. Perhaps he was pleading with snape to kill him and end the pain?

Plus, when snape made the unbreakable vow with narcissa saying that he would kill dumbledore if necessary, his hand twitched, giving us a possible sign that he did not wish to agree to this part of the unbreakable vow. Perhaps he did not wish to kill dumbledore.

Anywho, sorry for going off topic there. To answer the real question, i believe that dumbledore froze harry as to keep him out of danger. Sure, the death eaters were there to kill dumbledore and whatnot, but if they found harry, it could not be better for voldemort. Take harry to voldemort, voldemort kills harry and just about all of voldemorts problems are over. No supreme wizard who has powers that "the dark lord knows not." Just an added bonus to killing dumbledore. Dumbledore knew he was going to die, it seemed so when he wanted snape (hence my little theory). He just wanted to prevent Harry from going down with him.

Well that's just what I think. Feel free to critisize and whatnot.

i think too that dumbledore wanted to protect harry, because it would have been sure that harry would have tried to protect harry and then he would have died too.
if it´s true that dd had a reason for dying it would be another reason for freezing harry...

well.. we´ll read it. but it´s so long till this day

Thinking about Dd and Harry on the tower, I am pulled back to the Order of the Pheoinx. Harry was faced by Voldy and Dd save Harry at the Ministry..
The Key must be when Fawkes swooped down and swallowed the green light and save Dd.

Where was Fawkes when Harry and Dd were on the tower?
It must have been planed! Fawkes did not come to give Dd his wand back or attack Draco.

Clear as mud!

felix_felicis_444
Thanks for that link, I just read what he thinks about DD..
Some good points and who knows what will happen in 7. I thought the lack of Fawkes aid was key. I came to that on my own but was reinforced by that site. If JK ever gets a brain cramp she can read the posts at this site and relieve her block..

I think DD didn't know exactly what was going to happen and froze Harry to try and keep him out of the way and safe ('wrapped in cotton wool'), but it was one of his BIG mistakes. He seems to have made quite a few mistakes, and this was possibly his worst.

If you believe he knew what was coming and had planned to die, then what do you think he expect to happen once he was dead and Harry was left in the middle of a group of death eaters? He could not have meant to leave Harry unprotected, so he could not have been expecting to die. Missing Fawkes is, to me, another indication that he didn't have any idea what was going to happen.
(yes, I am going to other thread now:) )

padfoot3131 iam sorry but dumbledore could not have faked his own death as snape used a VERBAL curse...green light shot out of the end of his wand and hit dumbledore squarely in the chest....dumbledore definately begged snape to kill him and snape probably had that hateful expression because he simply hated himself for having to do wat he was going to do...
dumbledore freezes harry ffor the simple reason that he did not want him to ruin his plans...he knew harry would end up attacking malfoy or snape...

zeph i completely agree with what you said and that an unforgivable curse will not work if you dont mean it...but then again snape was quite a powerful wizard...dumbledore probably wanted snape to kill him and he had no choice...i think if snape uses an unforgivable curse (like the death eaters) they would actually have effect...dumbles is surly dead and there is no way he is coming back (portrait)...your theory is good but then dumbledore would not have just been lying on the ground with his eyes closed...it just means that he did think death was just another adventure and quite knew what was coming or else he would have had an expression of utter shock..

It resides on the loyalty of Snape. If he is working 100% for Voldemort, DD is dead, but if he has in mind to get rid of Voldemort, surely he wouldn't kill Dumbledore, the greatest threat to Voldemort? The picture on the wall could have been arranged, no problem with that, just take his picture and hang it up when he is supposedly dead.

It could be though, that DD realised he was getting weaker, and that he maybe would be of equal help to Harry through his picture rather than alongside of him. And when he died, he made sure Draco did not kill him and that Snape did in front of a number of witnesses to really show them which side he is on.

If he works for Voldemort, why wouldn't he let Draco do it? If there is someone who could persuade Draco into doing it, I'm sure Snape is one.

well dumbledore didnt realise who was going to come through that door but he realise someone was that was going to be dangerous because he realised it was a trap so i think he just froze harry for his own protection. but there is a theory that dumbledore planned his own death with snape which could well be possible so he planned freezing harry, but i doubt it is anything major.

dumbledore send Harry to get Snape for him to save him from the potion. Then He realized Snape was going to kill him and Dumbledore really knew the prophecy was kentucky fried chicken or "not real". so Snape would be able to kill Harry as he was all like really strong

ahhhh, now this is the important part of the is-snape-evil-or-acting-on-dumbledores-orders theory.
its either he froze harry to stop him bumping into any death eaters and getting himself killed,or,he was frozen so he could see what malfoys task was and to see snape killing him, but, he couldve just done that without being frozen you say?
Well if you believe the ol' snape isnt evil etc... then its of course its because dumbledore didnt want harry to interfere, only to watch.
but we can only know for sure when book 7 comes out at last

*bites nails*

Ofcurse he didn't froze him... Do you remember that in the film 1 Hermione did the same thing with Neville. This is spell what don't let you move but you can think..

I guess DD just wanted somebody to see what happens. Or maybe he knew what was going to happen (when people say that it was planned, which i think it untrue.)so he wanted Harry there. maybe there was a piece of imformation from that part that he needed Harry to see/hear

Sorry if someone has already posted this but i can't be bothered reading the posts.

Gryffindor - Courage

Harry would have tried to help Dumbledore because Dumbledore knew that Harry couragous. But harry would have probably have been killed. Dumbledore knew that Harry is the only person who can kill Voldemort. Also Dumbledore knew he was going to die (Snape being good theory) so he didn't want Harry to stop Snape killing him cause then Snape would break the unbreakable vow and die!!

If that makes sense!!:D

also if harry shuffled or moved at all it would have got the death eaters attention

i agree with all the other reasons too just that in the few i read this didnt come up

(ididnt read them all so if it has im sorry)

i don't know if anyone has posted this but i will say it anyway.
I read most of the posts on the first page and this idea came to mind and i decided to post if before i forgot it.

There are a few ways to restrain a person but as we are speaking of magic i can only think of 3 ways at the moment (late at night) A full body bind locker spell or a stunning spell, or the imperious(sp) unforgivable curse.

I do not believe DD would cast a Unforgivable curse on one of his students, plus Harry is known to resist it.
That leaves us with 2 other ways.
a stun spell would knock Harry out not permitting him to witness anything on the otherhand a body bind would restrain Harry not allowing him to get in the way or get hurt but allow him to see as we discovered when this happened to Nevile in PS.

now we have to consider why DD used that way.

I think DD froze harry because harry probably would have hurt Draco and Dd didnt want that to happen and then when the other DE came up he didnt want them to hurt or take harry to Voldemort. Dd had his reasons for doing it but we may never know why he really did it.

I think Dumbledore freezed him so Harry wouldn’t do anything stupid (Harry has a certain thing where he first thing he thinks of he has to do it). Take book 5 for instance, he wanted to go hurry over to the ministry before listening to Hermione or anyone. Or in book 3 he kept wanting to do stuff that would change time (like retrieving the cloak before Snape got it, capturing Pettigrew, etc). In a way he is just like Sirius, in which they both act rashly.

As other people have said, DD knew that harry would have reveiled himself to stop malfoy or someone else. Obviously Dumbledore wanted harry to carry on his work, to find all the Horcruxes And Defeat Voldemort. Maybe That's Why Harry Was Always His Favourite Student.

I'm a bit confused at the moment....

At first I thaught that DD was really dead, Harry saw Snape kill him , lots of people saw his body at the foot of the tower, with his arms and legs sticking out at odd angles, and everyone saw him cremated at the funeral.

Then again, a graet wizard like DD could of had snape hit him with a less powerful curse, not killing him; used the charm he used on harry in his third year when he fell off his broom ( the one that slows you down before you hit the ground); Pretended to be dead at the funeral and just got fawkes to make him dissappear in fire, like he did in his office when Umbridge found out about the DA.

I guess theres just so many possibilities because of magic!

Dumbledore Froze Harry bcuz he knew someone with evil intentions(Draco) was coming and wanted to protect Harry.

i think DD froze harry for 2 reasons.
1. so that he could see draco isnt evil he's just scared for his own life and his familys
2. so he couldnt interfear with DD's death

i beleive that dumbledores death was set up by him and snape (no one else knew)! for what ever reason i dont no..but i think voldy told snape to finish the job if draco could not possibly to prove he is 100% loyal to him..i also beleive snape told dumbledore this and that he would have to do it cause of the magic vow he took with narccisa (cant mind the name of it sorry lol)..so dumbledore persuaded snape to do it not just so snape could live so snape could find out more abt voldys plans etc and possible help harry in defeating the dark lord

Ah, there are many reasons why Dumbledore froze Harry. Remember, as the Half-Blood Prince book told us, that particular freezing charm can only be broken when the caster of it passes away.

Now this is were we come to a crossroad.

The first explaination I would give is that Dumbledore froze Harry to protect him. Dumbledore had faith in Harry, but I doubt he believed that Harry could take on a gang of Death Eaters on his own. If Dumbledore was to die, he didn't want Harry to die also, but to see and know who killed him so the fight against Voldemort and his Death Eaters could go on.

The second is that it was part of Dumbledore's plan. Dumbledore was/is a very powerful wizard. If anyone could minipulate the freezing charm so it was broken without the caster dying, I would say it would be him. Also remember, Dumbledore's "body" was covered during his funeral. Also, Fawkes never tried to save Dumbledore. That's a big question mark. Fawkes also "left Hogwart's" at the end of the Half-Blood Prince, was he perhaps going his master's call?

Also, as we learned when Harry tried to perform an Unforgivable Curse in the Ministry of Magic, you must want to really perform the charm, Snape would have truly wanted to kill Dumbledore and I doubt that, considering the trust trust Dumbledore had/has in Severus Snape.

As for his body that the Student's and Pupils saw at the bottom of the tower, there are obviously many theories, but I would say this: Remember there are Bogarts, and what bigger fear would Hogwars have after they were attacked by Voldemort's Death Eaters, than by seeing their Leader and most powerful wizard dead at their feet? It's worth a mention.

Just imagine how you would feel if Harry was about to be killed by Voldemort and it looked like it was really over this time, only for Dumbledore to appear in full glory and come to his aid? That'd be a truly big moment in the books.

I believe Dumbledore tought he could control the situation by his own, and didn't want to put Harry in danger. I mean, I'm sure Harry could have saved him, but Dd had never tought he was going to die...

Since I am of the belief that Snape and Dumbledore were in together on a plot that included killing Dumbledore (not sure the reason behind this, but we'll find out in the final book), and since I really believe that Snape is not evil, I tend to think that Dumbledore froze Harry so that he would not interfere. And, we know that Harry would interfere if he thought that Malfoy and later, Snape, planned to murder the headmaster. Also, I believe that Dumbledore wanted to protect Harry - not have him involved at this point - but he wanted Harry to see it all being played out. This will be important in book 7.

I don't think DD froze him at all. i think he was frozen by fear or some other emotion. Mayhbe that's why he recovered so quickly after the DEs left.

Or maybe it was some sort of planned magic. DD planned that nobody would enterfere with his plan, so anyone with him would be frozen.

just two ideas.