I’ll preceed the previous opinion.
Make up your mind, guys! Most of you here only take the 4th, 5th, and 6th bookss for the clues.
Let’s go to the first book.
1. Snape helped Harry.
2. Quirell said that Severus really hated Harry coz of James, but SEVERUS NEVER wants James to die.
3. Dumbledore said that James did something that couldn’t be forgiven by Severus: saving his life. Of course Severus can’t forgive him! James always made him being the most stupid man in the world, then he saved him. He didn’t want to owe James coz it made him can’t do any revenge, that’s why he hates him more.
4. Anyone could tell me WHY Voldie vanished? There were neva any explanation. There was only explanation about why Harry’s still alive.

Second book
1. Severus taught Harry Expelliarmus, undirectly.
2. Severus looked gloomy when McGonnagal said that Ginny was in the Chamber of Secrets.

Third book
1. Can you tell me why Severus didn’t put any poison into Lupin’s potion while he had a lot of chance to do that?
2. It was so clear that Severus only wanted fame when he blamed Sirius. Or…yeah, think deeply. Maybe Severus didn’t pay any attention to Harry, Ron, and Hermione because HE THOUGHT that Sirius really betrayed Potters?

Fourth book
1. Foe-glass
2. Severus turned to Dumbledore’s spy with a great personal risk, said DD.
3. Voldie said, “One…probably had left me, and he would die.” Who was that? The coward was Karkaroff and the loyal one was Crouch. But Dumbledore gave Snape a task to go to Voldie, that’s why Voldie continued to trust him.

Fifth book
1. Severus gave Harry Occlumency lesson. Yeah, if Harry felt more terrible, it wasn’t Snape’s fault!
2. When Harry gave Severus a secret message about Padfoot in front of Umbridge, actually he could easily let everything flow. He wouldn’t try to contact Sirius, but he did it to make sure that Sirius was okay.

Sixth book
1. Why Severus hid Wormtail, it’s because Wormtail had the same fate with him: helped by their enemies, but of course they’re not truly evil.
2. Felix Felicis
3. For the first, maybe Snape hadn’t know that Draco’s deed was to kill DD. It can be proven with Snape’s trembling hand. He hadn’t been told by both Narcissa or Bellatrix. Maybe Severus thought that, if Voldie commanded 16 years old DRACO, it would be an ‘easy’ task for him as a double agent, so he accepted the Unbreakable Vow.
4. Dumbledore knew about the Unbreakable Vow! Read the chapter when Draco confronted Dumbledore, Dumbledore said that Severus Snape had told him about anything that he’d done!!
5. Severus argued with DD in the forest, and said he was overworked. Then on the Astronomy Tower, Dumbledore plead, “Severus…please…” We know that DD’s not the type of person who’ll beg for his life. Can you link this? In the forest, Dumbledore wanted Severus to do something (again) for him, and Severus said no. I bet that the conversation is:
DD: Okay, the Unbreakable Vow will make you or Draco die if both of you don’t do the deed.
Severus: Yeah.
DD: So it’s clear now. You or Draco must kill me.
Severus: Right.
DD: But I won’t let the boy kill me.
Severus: Of course.
DD: No. Draco’ll not kill me. You’ll kill me.
Severus: Don’t be kidding.
DD: I won’t let the young boy becomes Voldemort’s follower! I won’t let him become a heartless young boy as Tom Riddle, don’t you understand?
Severus: Yeah, you won’t let him become heartless, but you want ME to be!
DD: Severus…
Severus: I’m tired, Dumbledore! I’m overworked! I’ve been a double agent for years and now you want me to do your insane command again…
DD: Please, you’ll do this for everybody…
Severus: Look, if you want to die, let Draco kill you! Or let both of us die!
DD: Severus, I won’t let both of you die. Look, you agreed to do this, you agreed to do everything that’s better for you…
Severus: This is not better for me! This is better for somebody else! Enough, Dumbledore, I’m tired!
The investigation in Slytherin? Of course DD ask him to keep making investigation about Draco! Maybe Snape felt bored or something like that, so he slipped saying that he wouldn’t do the investigation again. Of course, he didn’t really mean to say that. He kept doing the investigation, but he didn’t want to do DD’s command.
6. Then on the tower, Severus finally said yes; he did Dumbledore plead. He killed him. FELIX FELICIS maybe took part for DD’s willing. Hermione and Luna wanted everything to be okay, and it means, if Dumbledore was KILLED, everything would be okay!
7. I’ll convince you more. If DD wanted to escape, he would have do that the same as when he tried to escape from Fudge in book 5 (when Fudge discovered about Dumbledore’s Ally). Maybe you think it’d impossible coz DD wasn’t in a good condition, but remember. He could immobilized Harry, so he still could do some kind of Dissapparate spell, right?
8. Why he immobilized Harry? Coz he didn’t want Harry to help him!

Once more. Severus Snape was fond of the dark arts. He hated James Potter, a hero in wizarding world. He was a DE. He was a broken-home. He’s so smart. He’s a Slytherin.
Look, if DD were a stupid man, then I’d believe Snape’d betray him. But he’s NOT an idiot. If a genius man like DD put Severus Snape (ex. DE, James Potter’s hater, a Slytherin, a dark arts fan) in both HOGWARTS and THE ORDER OF THE PHOENIX…of course he had a lot of reasons for that. And remember! Snape has been working with Dumbledore for 15 YEARS, and Dumbledore, never, even for a day, doubt his belief in Severus Snape. Sure, Snape is a great Occlumens. But he’s a human too, so of course there’d be some time where he couldn’t do his Occlumency maximally.

Once more. Please, look at the OotP members. Dumbledore’s dead. Lupin is a werewolf, so that Bill; Voldie and Greyback will easily call them. Arthur and Molly are mollywobble; they are so scared of losing their kids. Tonks is too young and she loves LUPIN. Hagrid’s not strong enough. Sirius has died. McGonnagal isn’t too great without DD. If the Half-Blood Prince betrays the order…oh!

Once more. Dumbledore suspected Riddle when EVERYBODY loved him. Of course…he’ll be the one who loves Severus Snape when everybody suspects him.

Once more. Dumbledore will think that everybody’ll be good if they still have love in their heart. Draco Malfoy loves his parent, that’s why he thought that Draco could be on the good side. DD trusts Severus Snape. Of course. Snape has LOVE in his heart! Probably a really big love coz we know that DD won’t trust anybody who’s full of hatred.

Once more. When Harry called Snape a coward, Severus was really in pain.

The last but not least. Dumbledore’s philosophy is, “I don’t care about your feeling. I don’t care if you’re hated by all of your friends. I don’t care about you’re feeling on me. I don’t care about ME! I don’t care about ANYTHING as long as you’re alive!”
He gave the philosophy to Sirius, and Sirius didn’t obey him.

No one knows what happened to Snape the night Voldemort came to Godric’s Hollow. What we know is, DD finally trusted Snape and asked him to be OotP’s spy.
In Sirius’ point of view, he gave his Secret Keeper spell to Wormtail, then he went away in order to have Voldermort ran after him. But then Voldie used Wormtail, and finally Voldie came to Godric’s Hollow. Sirius came back to Godric’s Hollow with his motorcycle and found out that James and Lily were gone. He saw Harry, and then he met Hagrid. He begged to Hagrid in order he could bring Harry, but Hagrid refused, coz he had been commanded by Dumbledore to bring Harry to Privet Drive. Then, yeah, we know what heppened to Sirius.
In Dumbledore’s point of view, he was in Privet Drive. He might never came to Godric’s Hollow after the incident, because when McGonnagal asked him, he only said that there was someone who told him. Who told him? Hagrid? No, Hagrid knew about the incident because of DD’s announcement.
Here it was. Severus Snape maybe took part in this case.
Let’s go to the first.
Snape told Voldie about the prophecy. Voldie then claimed Harry as his enemy. Then, Snape felt regret, and he came to DD and DD trusted him (coz of the iron-clad that we never know). Severus later told DD that Voldie planned to kill Potter’s child, but DD maybe thought that everyhting would be okay coz Sirius was the one who became Potters’ Secret Keeper. But DD and Severus were wrong. Voldie finally got Wormtail a.k.a Sirius-in-everybody’s-mind (remember, NO ONE knew about Wormtail’s secret, including the OotP, DD, and Snape, because if Severus knew, of course he would told Dumbledore, and there’s more reason why Severus didn’t know that Wormtail was a DE. Maybe Voldie kept Wormtail as a secret, only from Snape, because maybe Voldie didn’t trust Snape at that time). Then Voldie came to Godric’s Hollow, and maybe Severus knew about this from the other DE, and he quickly went to Godric’s Hollow to stop Voldie. Of course, he was late. He left Godric Hollow before Sirius came.
Severus then told DD, and DD went to privet Drive and he asked Hagrid to pick Potter’s child up.

jejejejejeje , you have really think of it half-blood-chic, you have a very good theory, i trsut severus, i cant belive dumbledore was wrong about it

I have to agree with half blood chic... As you I have pondered over many clues in all books, and have come to the same conclusion. Severus Snape has not betrayed Dumbledore.

Actually, I´m not convinced of Dumbledore´s death...(and obviously this would make Snape completely inoccent) If he is dead, he meant for to happen it, I have no doubt on that hypothesis.

But consider this... nonverbal spells... the fact that Unforgivable Curses must be really meant, Dumbledore flying off when Snape curses him (no one else goes flying off, they just die when struck by Avada Kedavra), Dumbledore's wand is never mentioned (nor snapped in two as it seems to be tradition according to Hagrid and Slughorn in Odo's Song).
Consider also what Dumbledore says to Draco:
"He cannot kill you if you are already dead. Come over to the right side Draco, and we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine .... Nobody would be surprised that you had died in your attempt to kill me - forgive me, but Lord Voldemort probably expects it"
It seems clear enough that Dumbledore can feign death very well, perhaps even his own, and Snape might have used another spell (nonverbal) while just uttering "Avada Kedavra" without any meaning... and then even daring to stop and yell at Harry "don't call me coward"...it just seems that there are too many little things...
One of the things that I think is important two is the fact that Dumbledore is so final with Harry (right before they leave for the Horcrux) of doing his bidding, and not questioning him about Snape... he always answered Harry, and explained his intentios, but not this time...
I believe Dumbledore wanted to save Draco, and at the same time put Snape right beside Voldemort so that, in due time, when Harry came to face him, Snape could be already there. So maybe Dumbledore indeed gave his life for his plan, (though it seems strange that he never confided it with any other than Harry), but it seems most likely to me that he is not dead... that Snape didn't want to perform as he wanted (thus the already very commented discussion between Snape and Dumbledore), perhaps because he is afraid of coming face to face with Voldemort again (after all, he spoke several times of the Dark Lord being such a great Legilemens), and he is ashamed of his fear ("don't call me coward). Furthermore, I don't believe that nobody, even such a good Occlumens can hide fear, hate and desire for revenge every day for so many years with such a wise man as Dumbledore watching him.

I've wen't to so many sites for this topic since im a true fan of Dumbledore. I can get you guys the full information on this with everysingle clue included on who Snape really betrayed when he killed Dumbledore "IF" he killed him which he didn't. Im going to go and look for it with excellent points, that site really revived me altho I knew a ton of those clues. But Dave the author of it really brought out so many things which I missed. I'll go search and give it for you guys to read up. its not only about that topic also.

AH! Yes, I've found the site that has amazing clues. Here it is guys and gals. Without further ado, I present to you: http://www.dumbledoreisnotdead.com/

hey to all of you i dont believe dumbledore is even dead i think he faked the whole thing i cant put all that i want to say in this post so im just going to give you a link proving that he is not dead!
http://www.dumbledoreisnotdead.com/
(lol i didnt see the post ontop of me sorry)

I realise that the two topics are somewhat related, but I just wanted to drop in a reminder that this thread is discussion whether or not Snape is still on the side of good.

For those people who are wanting to discussion whether or not Dumbledore is really dead, there is another thread that is also pinned in this area. Please post related comments in there instead of in here.

I agree zell_dincht, Harry's path is for him alone. I suspect that Dumbledore's intentions are these precisely. Thus, he devices this plan, and calls for all of Snape's loyalty and courage... I believe that Snape not only has a great role to play in the battle against Voldemort, but also he is now to watch over Harry's progress...

This is not a good thing when I feel the need to step into a thread because I should warn everyone that I have zero tolerance for arguments when the rules on the subject make VTM's policy quite clear.

Pix has already had to ask people to stay on topic and her comments seem to have been ignored and Davy, you decided to have a go anyway. It's not on and I don't care what the justification for it is. In future, if you have something like that to say, do it through PM. You DO NOT instigate arguments on this forum.

Sincere thanks to kuhoops for getting back onto the subject.

I have no qualms whatsoever about locking threads if people can't behave themselves and follow a few basic rules and I couldn't care less how popular it is so please get with the program in here guys, unless you want to lose another thread.

innocent until proven guilty it's not as if he killed dumbledore is it the idea is laughable hahahahahahahahhaahhaha

Er...what? Listen, I'm going to start getting really angry if you reply here again. Please don't take this off topic anymore than it already is. If you want to respond to something I've said then do it through PM.

BACK ON TOPIC PLEASE.

PM's not my thing but sure lets get back on topic. Snapes betraying Voldemort and not Dumbledore. Dumbledore is alive and will be back in #7. Let me get some of the cluess from the website I provided since people aren't to take the time for a great read.

1. Dumbledore's Big Chill

Harry and Dumbledore are up on the top of the tower underneath the Dark Mark. Harry is wearing his invisibility cloak, Dumbledore ordered him to put it on before they mounted their brooms to ride to the top of the tower. Harry hears footsteps and looks around, but Dumbledore orders him with a gesture to retreat. Harry draws his wand and backs away:

The door burst open and somebody erupted through it and shouted, "Expelliarmus!" Harry's body became instantly rigid and immobile, and he felt himself fall back against the tower wall, propped like an unsteady statue, unable to move or speak.(HBP pg 584/545)

It's interesting to note that things are happening so fast, even Harry is momentarily confused:

He could not understand how it happened -- Expelliarmus was not a Freezing Charm -- Then, by the light of the Mark, he saw Dumbledore's wand flying in an arc over the edge of the ramparts and understood... Dumbledore had wordlessly immobilzed Harry, and the second he had taken to perform this spell had cost him the chance of defending himself. (HBP pg 584/545)

Why did Dumbledore freeze Harry? Harry was already invisible to their attackers and in no danger.

The only explanation could be that Dumbledore already knew, had already planned, that he would die this night (or appear to die), and not only did he not want Harry to become involved and possibly be injured himself, he needed Harry to be a witness, to be able to tell everyone else what happened.

Dumbledore might have also promised Snape that he would make sure that Harry would not be able to interfere, knowing how Harry feels about Snape and what Snape was about to have to do.

The supposition that it was Dumbledore's plan to do this all along is supported by the fact that he acted so quickly to do it, almost without thinking, when Draco burst in on the scene.

Harry's own assumption that the Freezing Charm was done by Dumbledore is supported by the fact the curse lifted when Dumbledore left the tower minutes later.

2. Let's All Play Dead Together

While Dumbledore is trying to talk Draco out of killing him, Dumbledore proposes an interesting way out for Draco:

"I can help you, Draco." "No, you can't," said Malfoy, his wand shaking very badly indeed. "Nobody can. He told me to do it or he'd kill me. I've got no choice." "He cannot kill you if you are already dead. Come over to the right side, Draco, and we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine." (HBP pg 591/552)

Dumbledore then offers to expand his mother in the protection, and even Lucius when he gets out of Azkaban.

This is very interesting, isn't it? Draco doesn't take him up on it, but Dumbledore is saying he has ways that could make it appear that Draco died when he really hadn't. Doesn't that sound exactly like what we suspect that Dumbledore has planned for himself?

IMPORTANT REVELATION!
UK Edition Missing Important Text!

The UK edition of Half-Blood Prince is missing some text that is included in the American edition, and it's text that is very important to this clue!

This is the text as it appears in the UK edition:

"He told me to do it or he'll kill me. I've got not choice." "Come over to the right side, Draco, and we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine. What is more, I can send members of the Order to your mother tonight to hide her likewise. Your father is safe at the moment in Azkaban...when the time comes we can protect him too...come over to the right side, Draco...you are not a killer..." Malfoy stared at Dumbledore. (HBP UK Edition pg 552)

But this is the same passage from the American edition (text missing from the UK edition highlighted):

"He told me to do it or he'll kill me. I've got no choice." "He cannot kill you if you are already dead. Come over to the right side Draco, and we can hide you more completely than you can possibly imagine. What is more, I can send members of the Order to your mother tonight to hide her likewise. Nobody would be surprised that you had died in your attempt to kill me -- forgive me, but Lord Voldemort probably expects it. Nor would the Death Eaters be surprised that we had captured and killed your mother -- it is what they would do themselves, after all. Your father is safe at the moment in Azkaban...When the time comes we can protect him too. Come over to the right side, Draco...you are not a killer..." Malfoy stared at Dumbledore. (HBP US Edition pg 591)

Both of the ommissions are directly related, they are about having Draco appeared to have died, so it would seem the ommisions are intentional.

Did J.K. include those lines originally, and then decide she had gone too far and made the clue too transparent and obvious? Is it possible she decided to remove them, but the lines got accidentally included in the American edition anyway?

3. Fawkes doesn't try to save Dumbledore

We've seen Fawkes come in at the last moment and save Harry's life in Chamber of Secrets:

As Harry trembled, ready to close his eyes if it turned, he saw what had distracted the snake. Fawkes was soaring around its head, and the basilisk was snapping furiously at him with fangs long and thin as sabers -- Fawkes dived. His long golden beak sunk out of sight and a sudden shower of dark blood spattered the floor. (CoS pg 318/234)

And he also saved Dumbledore in Order of the Phoenix:

... one more jet of green light had flown at Dumbledore from Voldemort's wand and the snake had struck -- Fawkes swooped down in front of Dumbledore, opened his beak wide, and swallowed the jet of green light whole. He burst into flame and fell to the floor, small, wrinkled and flightless. (OotP pg 814/719)

We know Fawkes was nearby the tower, as he shows up after Dumbledore's "death". So, why didn't Fawkes come to save Dumbledore this time?

I think the fact that he didn't makes it possible to believe that Dumbledore didn't want his life to be saved, and this supports the theory that it was Dumbledore's plan all along to "die" up on that tower that night.

4. The Flying Avada Kedavra

As soon as I read the description of exactly what happened the moment that Snape killed Dumbledore, little red flags were popping up in my brain, but I didn't pay attention to them at first. This was actually the very first clue that alerted me to this whole thing.

Every other time we've seen the Avada Kedavra performed, the victim simply falls over dead:

He was screaming so loudly that he never heard the words the thing in the chair spoke as it raised a wand. There was a flash of green light, a rushing sound, and Frank Bryce crumbled. He was dead before he hit the floor. (GoF pg 15/19)

From high above his head, he heard a high, cold voice say, "Kill the spare." A swishing noise and a second voice, which screeched the words to the night: "Avada Kedavra!" A blast of green light blazed through Harry's eyelids, and he heard something heavy fall to ground beside him. Cedric was lying spread-eagled on the ground beside him. He was dead. (GoF pg 638/553)

However, in Half-Blood Prince, when Snape curses Dumbledore with the same spell, Dumbledore violently flies up and away from the tower:

Snape raised his wand and pointed it directly at Dumbledore. "Avada Kedavra!" A jet of green light shot from the end of Snape's wand and hit Dumbledore squarely in the chest. Harry's scream of horror never left him; silently he was forced to watch as Dumbledore was blasted into the air. For a split second, he seemed to hang suspended beneath the shining skull, and then he slowly fell backward, like a great rag doll, over the battlements and out of sight. (HBP pg 596/556)

Why would this application of the Avada Kedavra be so different from every other time we've seen it?

Perhaps his spell was different because even though those were the words Snape said, he didn't perform the killing curse at all. Remember all the importance this book gave to "nonverbal" spells? Perhaps Snape said Avada Kedavra, but the curse he was really thinking, the nonverbal one, was a different curse, one that only made it appear that Dumbledore was dead.

Even the title of the chapter this all takes place in is suspicous, "The Lightning-Struck Tower". Even though this is the name of the ominous tarot card that Trelawney was worried about back on page 543/507 in chapter 25, is it possible that J.K. is hinting here that the spell was not Avada Kedavra, just some green lightning sparks for show?

5. Don't Point That At Me Unless You Mean It

Several times in the course of the Harry Potter books, J.K. has told us that the Avada Kedavra is not a curse you can make lightly.

In Goblet of Fire, the fake Mad Eye Moody tells his DADA class:

"Avada Kedavra's a curse that needs a powerful bit of magic behind it -- you could all get your wands out now and point them at me and say the words, and I doubt I'd get so much as a nosebleed." (GoF pg 217/192)

And in Order of the Phoenix, we learn more about Avada Kedavra when Harry tries to curse Bellatrix:

Hatred rose in Harry such that he had never known before. He flung himself out from behind the fountain and bellowed "Crucio!" Bellatrix screamed. The spell had knocked her off her feet, but she did not writhe or shriek with pain as Neville had -- she was already on her feet again ... "Never used an Unforgivable Curse before, have you, boy?" she yelled. "You need to mean them, Potter! You need to really want to cause pain -- to enjoy it ..." (OotP pg 810/715)

If Snape was really working on Dumbledore's orders to make it look to the world as if Snape had killed him, even if he had used the real Avada Kedavra, if he had not really meant it, if he really didn't want to kill Dumbledore, then isn't possible that the curse didn't kill Dumbledore, but only injured him badly?

6. Fawkes' Lament

Directly after Dumbledore's murder, as everyone assembled in the hospital wing, Harry tells everyone Snape did it. He stops, overcome with emotion, and right then, something very important happens:

Madame Pomfrey burst into tears. Nobody paid her any attention except Ginny, who whispered, "Shh! Listen!" (HBP pg 614/573)

Everyone was there, Ron and his parents, Hermione, Lupin, Tonks. Yet it is Madame Pomfrey who J.K. tells us is struck by this turn of events. Continuing:

Gulping, Madame Pomfrey pressed her fingers to her mouth, her eyes wide. Somewhere out in the darkness, a phoenix was singing in a way Harry had never heard before; a stricken lament of terrible beauty. (HBP pg 614/573)

J.K. spends another paragraph on how the phoenix song echos their grief, but while doing so mentions:

Harry felt, as he had felt about the Phoenix song before, that the music was inside him, not without ... How long they stood there, listening, he did not know, nor why it seemed to ease their pain a little to listen... (HBP pg 615/573)

And then McGonagall enters, changes the subject, and the phoenix song is forgotten.

Many minutes later, after all the retelling of the night's affair, J.K. mentions Fawkes is still at it:

They all fell silent. Fawkes's lament was still echoing over the dark grounds outside. (HBP pg 621/579)

...but Harry's thoughts move right on to other things, like wondering where Dumbledore's body is now. Many minutes later still, as this meeting breaks up and Harry is following McGonagall up to what is now her office, J.K. interjects:

The corridors outside were deserted and the only sound was the distant phoenix song. (HBP pg 625/583)

Whatever it was he was doing, Fawkes was working hard at it, and not giving up. Yet we are supposed to believe, as in the title of this chapter, "The Phoenix Lament", that it is only Dumbledore's pet echoing everyone's grief?

Are we so easily to forget that phoenix tears have powerful healing powers?

Significantly, it is the healer, Madame Pomfrey, who is brought to tears by the phoenix song. She knows the healing power of the phoenix well. She gulps with eyes wide. She recognizes something special is going on.

Also, J.K. goes out of her way to point out the healing qualities of the phoenix song, Harry feels it inside, the way he did last time he was healed by one, and most importantly, it seems to ease their pain!

From these passages, it certainly seems that J.K. wants us to know that Fawkes is doing some healing! Perhaps Fawkes is not powerful enough to bring someone back from the Avada Kedavra, but what if Dumbledore was not really hit by an Avada Kedrava, and instead hit with half a spell, or a spell to make him appear dead (as explained in the clues above)?

7. Anyone Seen Dumbledore's Wand Lately?

At the very begining of the big scene between Draco, Dumbledore and Snape, one of the first things that happens is Dumbledore loses his wand:

The door burst open and somebody erupted through it and shouted, "Expelliarmus!" ... by the light of the Mark, he saw Dumbledore's wand flying in an arc over the edge of the ramparts ... (HBP pg 584/545)

But where is his wand now?

We know a wizard's wand is very important to him, and a wand that belonged to a wizard as powerful as Dumbledore would be a very important item to know the whereabouts of, something you wouldn't want falling into the wrong hands.

This clue might not mean as much if we didn't know the customs of wizards in such occasions, but we do! Five chapters ago, when Harry and Slughorn were consoling Hagrid over the death of Aragog, Hagrid and Sluggy sang a song about a wizard called Odo, and Sluggy sang the lines:

And Odo the hero, they bore him back home,
To the place that he'd known as a lad,
They laid him to rest with his hat inside out
And his wand snapped in two, which was sad. (HBP pg 488/456)

But as far as we know, they didn't snap Dumbledore's wand in two. After the scene at the top of the tower, Dumbledore's wand is simply never mentioned again.

Is it possible that Dumbledore's wand is missing because Dumbledore still has his wand, still needs his wand, because he's not dead?

8. No Body, No Crime

The last time we really saw Dumbledore's body was when Harry is kneeling over it shortly after he has been killed by Snape the previous day.

Now, we see Hagrid carry the body of Dumbledore into his funeral, but it's covered:

Hagrid was walking slowly up the aisle between the chairs. He was crying quite silently, his face gleaming with tears, and in his arms, wrapped in purple velvet spangled with golden stars, was what Harry knew to be Dumbledore's body. (HBP pg 643/599)

We never really see Dumbledore's body at the funeral. How do we know it was there at all?

9. Caution: Dumbledore Is Flammable

As part of the funeral service, a fire ignites around the body of Dumbledore, and when it subsides, his body is encased in a white marble tomb.

Again, we don't see the body, either before or after the fire.

But more importantly, no one lights the fire, it just happens on its own. A body bursting into flame on its own. That sound like anyone we know? We've seen Fawkes do that several times now in the course of the Harry Potter books, and you know what happens to Fawkes after every time it does.

Earlier in the book, we saw several instances where Dumbledore uses fire, an important aspect of the symbol of a phoenix. When he first meets Tom Riddle in the orphanage, to demonstrate he's a wizard, he sets Tom's wardrobe on fire. And he conjures fire to protect Harry and himself from the infiri in the cave.

And after all this, in case we didn't get the allusions to a phoenix, J.K. reminds us just in case:

White smoke spiraled into the air and made strange shapes: Harry thought, for one heart-stopping moment, that he saw a phoenix fly joyfully into the blue, but next second the fire had vanished. (HBP pg 645/601)

All these clues seem to suggest that if Dumbledore really did die, he has the ability to be reborn out of the ashes of his death, either under his own power, or with the help of the healing powers of Fawkes.

Besides, even if Dumbledore's body was there when it erupted into flame, we know that doesn't mean anything to a wizard!

Non-magic people (more commonly known as muggles) were particularly afraid of magic in medieval times, but not very good at recognizing it. On the rare occasion that they did catch a real witch or wizard, burning had no effect whatsoever. The witch or wizard would perform a basic Flame Freezing Charm and then pretend to shriek with pain while enjoying a gentle, tickling sensation. (PoA pg 2/7)

So, who do they think they were fooling at the funeral?

i trust severus snape, no matter what,i think he and malfoy will be saved , the both are goods dumbledore can see that in the persons, why dumbledore never trust tom riddle because he read not his mind but his soul i think dumbledore is out of the league SEVERUS SNAPE IS GOOD AND IN PAIN BECAUSE OF WHAT HE HAD TO DO FOR DUMBLEDORE i still think he kill him for a very deep reason snape dont want to do it and neither malfoy, the unbreakable vow and something that dumbledore planned was the reason of severus actions

As for that www.dumbledoreisnotdead.com site, the unanswered questions part is really hurting that theory. If Snape didn't kill Dumbledore, he should be dead! Unbreakable Vows not having time limits, if they don't, is not very good evidence againts this.
His portrait in the headmaster's office, does mean he's dead. Why would his picture pop up if he's not dead? The only loophole I see in this is if the picture disappeared after 3 days.(after the draught of the living dead he supposedly took wears off) It's neither confirmed whether it's removed or whether it stayed.
Furthermore, Dumbledore is not so special that he can return from ashes. ONLY phoenix's can do that, and whether or not he's an animagus, i doubt that counts as being a phoenix. Trust me, no wizard can respawn from ashes.
I doubt Dumbledore could show his face again after seeing how sad everyone was at his funeral. And, he realizes Harry has to kill Voldemort anyways, so what difference does it make if he stays alive.
Now, back on the subject of Snape, i voted for that he betrayed Voldemort. This is because he's the perfect double agent. He's shown all signs of loathing Harry, yet he's made a minor attempt of making sure Harry hasn't been killed.(the 1st book, the 6th book)
I think that Dumbledore definitely has a reason we do not yet know of for trusting Snape. He believes having Snape as a double agent is more important than his life, so he plans to have Snape KILL him. Voldemort will never doubt his loyalty again, and he's free from the Unbreakable Vow. Dumbledore is a very good Legimins so he probably would know if Snape was lying to him after 15 years of being at Hogwarts together.(of course it doen't help that Snape is a very good Occlumens.) Dumbledore must have some reason for ultimately trusting Snape. In the end I think Snape is gonna turn out on the good side.

When i first read the ending of HBP i was sure all my dormant theories about snapes true character were finally proven. But after reading the book for a second time i have re-examined by first conclusion. If snape is indeed 100% loyal to Voldemort undercloser examination he doesn't act as viciously as he could have. There is the question of why doesn't snape kill Harry in that moment he is towering over Harry who is wandless. One could argue that he simply didn't have the time but again, had he been completely faithful to Voldermort and acting on his orders why not use this opportunity to kill the greatest remaining threat to Voldemort in the same night?

Rowling has often played around with snape. She has wanted us to flip-flop over our opinions on him since book one. This repetive cycle of suspicion and vindication has always been a part of snape's character. I is my opinion that Rowling's intention regarding Snape is to be eternally ambiguous. Given this history a reader shouldn't label snape as a 1-dimensional character so quickly.

As far as DD asking snape to kill him as part of a plan i find interesting but hard to swallow. The emphasis on DD pleading for mercy would suggest that this was truely a legitamite act DD had not forseen. One theory i find interesting is the belief that snape is still opposed to Voldermort's side but he is a survivor. He still may in his mind believe that he is on the right side but he is unwilling to comprimise his personal safty.

This would explain why snape stops with killing DD and doesn't kill Harry despite a very good opportunity. If this theory ends up being right (which in the end probably wont), it would create an very interesting conflict development between Harry and Snape, if indeed snape, in his own twisted morality, felt he was only doing what was neccessary for his survival. I seriously doubt that Snape's moral character has revealed its final part. i expect the final piece of the "love to hate" character will be reveal in his final confrontation with Harry.

Does anyone see a possibility of redemption for snape?

In regards to Snape's loyalty i am very much divided. I believe that what we read is pretty much the truth...Dumbledore is dead. However something tells me that there may be a little more to the story than this. But i can see evidence to support the fact that Snape is against LV or that he still supports him.

Scenerio 1 - Dumbledore is still alive : I don't see how Dumbledore could still be alive. As much as I want him to be, i think there isn't much evidence to support this. Though there is the theory that Dumbledore is an animagus and that his form is a phoenix, and that like his animagus, he himself shall be resurrected once again. But this is probably a stretch. Or the whole death could have been a hoax and Snape didn't perform a proper killing curse, but there is the fact that DD's body fell to the ground and was found there, and the flash of green light synonomous with the killing curse.. but there may be some loophole....

Scenerio 2 - Dumbledore dies, but Snape is still good : There is of course the evidence of the conversataion that was held between Snap and Dumbledore, which has already been talked about in this thread. Could this conversation have been a plan for Snape to kill Dumbledore, so that Snape could completely gain Voldemorte's trust? We all know that DD is not afraid of death. Once again this does sound very elaborate.

Another theory for this scenario i have is that DD's death was not planned, but rather had to be done. What if dumbledore had told Severus about his intending to go and retieve the horcrux. Given that DD had been injured before by a horcrux, perhaps he wanted Snape to be ready when he got back from getting the locket, in case he was again injured. Perhaps when Snape saw DD on the tower, he knew, given that he is after all the potions teacher, that DD had swollowed a deadly potion. DD himself probably knew what the potion in the basin was, and knew that it would slowly kill him. So when Snape saw the symptoms DD had, he knew that he was doomed to die anyway, and so saved DD from suffering any longer and killed him. - this is more plausible than the whole death being staged.

Scenerio 3 - Snape truley betrays DD : This of course is the most obvious theory, only because it is what we are told has happened. Given Snape's past and his link to the Dark Lord (being a half blood and all that jazz) it is likely that Snape believes himself to be the most loyal of all the death eaters similar to the way Barty Crouch jr. acts in GOF. If Snape is on LV's side, this really does complicate the story because now, Harry not only has LV and death eaters to take care of, but also Snape (who he has a personal vendetta against, and prbably wants revenge) - I mean how many enemies can one boy have?

But questions still arise even with this such as why did DD downright trust Snape? what was it that Snape told DD to buy his trust? I mean we know that DD is trusting but he would still need a good reason to trust a death eater wouldn't he? Also - why didn't Snape kill Harry when he had the chance, or at least injure or capture him? Surely LV would have been immensely pleased with Snape if he had brought him the one person he wanted to kill?

Last thing ( I promise); one of my theories, is that perhaps Snape is on no ones side but his own. Maybe he fancies himself the next Dark Lord - and wants Harry alive so that he can kill Voldemort leaving the way clear for Snape himself to take the reigns or dark lord?

As you can see there are so many possibilities, a little bit of evidence - but mostly unanswered question - i can't wait to find out the truth...

When I finished reading HbP, I was like "I can't belive in that. I can't belive Snape killed Dumbledore", so I was sure Snape was at Voldemort's side.
But I still find all really weird. It's just not resonable. I mean, yes, Dumbledore is emotional and he can make emotional mistakes, but he's also one of the most or the most intelligent wicth in the world. So how could he belive Snape was not a DE anymore just because he said he was sorry about Harry's parents? Dumbledore wouldn't trust him just because of that. There must be something else. Snape must have done something that made DD fully trust on him.
On the other hand, how could Snape kill DD in that way? He didn't seem to be guilty or sad about that. I don't think anyone who really cares about DD would have the courage to do that. It was such a cold death. And if Dumbledore and Snape have a plan, how it could be a good plan? What advantages killing DD would bring? It's really hard to belive that with DD dead, things will get better. And even if there is any good on that, would DD trust that much on Snape's power to let him go on with the plan alone? I think Dumbledore would say aboth that to someone at OotP.
So I still don't know who is Snape betraying. I've never liked Snape that much, but I've always thought he was at DD's side. I used to think he was unfair and weird most of the time but it never passed trough my mind that he would kill DD. I've thought: "Dumbledore trusts on him. So, he's probably right", just like Hermione did. And when I read "Avada Kedavra", I was really shocked. Everything is so confuse and I don't think I will know what Snape is planning until the last book.

last DDA professor was dolores umbridge

MOD EDIT : Hi and welcome to the forums! Could I ask you to please review the rules? One liners aren't allowed here and I'm not sure that you're on topic either...

I don't know...the whole situation is so confusing!!! There are clues and theories going either way and we just don't know. Is he good? Is he bad? Snape's relationship with Voldemort and Dumbldore is kept in the dark so well we just can't piece it together for sure. I have trouble believing DD and Snape planned Dumbledore's death in some way, but I can't rule it out either. Whoever pointed out how JK has been carefully playing with Snape throughout the series had it right on.

About Snape...
We know Snape can do occlumency as well as leglimency(sp?), he "showed up at school knowing more hexes than most 7th years, invented his own spells that can be quite dangerous, Is probably one of the most skilled wizard/witch at potions out there (several people have relied on his potions abilities throughout the series.), the list goes on.

I would honestly say that I think Snape could be the 3rd most powerful wizard we have seen thus far, with the exception of DD and Voldemort.

Personally, I kind of hope that he had to kill Dumbledore because of the Unbreakable Vow. I also have a sneaking suspicion that Voldemort's plan may have been just as Snape says to Narcissa and Bellatrix, that he is intended to do it in the end. Perhaps in order to make up for Lucius's mistakes, Narcissa had to trap Snape into the unbreakable vow to kill Dumbledore. Draco was told that he was to do it, but come on, we ALL know that Voldemort would not have underestimated Dumbledore like that

Voldemort used the Malfoys to set a test for Snape to see where Snape's loyalties lie. He was willing to kill Dumbledore, the one wizard who Voldemort feared. I think there is one other wizard that Voldemort fears, and that is Severus Snape.

I just read something that struck me strange in Goblet of Fire, that may prove as a helpful clue to this situation or be useless. We'll see !

Well you know when Harry goes back with "MEM", and just before he turns back into Crouch Jr. DD, McGonnagal and Snape come in. Well just before that, Harry says that three figures were coming in the foe glass.

Well if there were three people in the foe glass and three people came in, wouldn't everyone be a foe to Crouch Jr. So wouldn't Snape be one of Voldemorts foes, if he is Crouch Jrs.?

I don't know if the foe glass shows true foes, or whoever the person thinks is a foe so...it might not mean that.

The line just struck me strange.

Well, for me, Snape is on the good side because Jk wouldnt put the chapter 2 at the beginning. ( i know it make us think if he's really good or evil). She could have put it at the end to prove that Snape is evil.

Dumbledore is someone who see too much good in a person, but he's not stupid. Snape must have give information to Dumbledore, if not, Dumbledore wouldn't trust him that much. Maybe Dumbledore didn't tell Harry the whole prophecy. The first part may concern Snape a li'l bit.


But the most important thing for me, is if you read the book, you see that Snape is not EVIL, he's just kind of CHIANT.

And why wouldn't Snape be a good comedian with Harry and the students?

I have not followed the entire discussion here but I think he is betraying Voldemort for a lot of reasons. But could it be that he is under the Imperius Curse?

I think dreamer87 is absolutely wrong. Snape is too powerfull to be under the Imperius Curse. I don't think there is anyway that anyone short of Voldemort or Dumbledore could Imperius Snape, surely Dumbledore would not do so, and Voldemort, well, I don't think that Snape would stand near Voldemort without some very powerfull protections and backups.

On another subject, Snape was in his office when the Death Eaters attack happened. If he knew of the attack, why was he standing in his office waiting to be called for by another professor if in the end he did not intend to remain a part of Hogwarts staff and if he intended to kill Dumbledore??? Why would he care to keep his cover if he was to perform such a deed??? Never mind Harry being invisible, the Death Eaters alone would make a fuss of Snape killing Dumbledore, and, most certainly, if you killed Dumbledore you'd brag about it!

I think Snape was, as Dumbledore certain that an attack would come, they just didn't know exactly when. I think that is why Snape questions Draco, to learn his progress. That is why Snape has to wait for the attack to come, so that Dumbledore's plan can be executed correctly. This brings another question... why does he attack Flitwick?? Most importantly, if he was set to kill Dumbledore, why not kill another teacher???

I have some other thoughts, and I'm rereading books to check them again... but maybe someone could help me on this: what about life-debts? Snape's life was saved by James Potter... I dare say that Dumbledore too saved Snape's life by keeping him out of Azkaban... what about the "powerfull bond" this means (as I recall Dumbledore saying?) I throw this topic into discussion because it might prove an important factor... I'm not quite sure yet of what to think of this and its implications on Snape's loyalties... maybe someone has thoughts on this

Okay, well I'll throw in my observations for everyone to scrutinize. There are at least 10 clues I think we have to operate on.

1, Dumbledore trusts him. While he can make mistakes, as he's explained in how he handled harry's emotional ability to undertake the concept of the prophecy, I don't think after that mistake DD would take any aspect of the situation lightly, or allow someone with a history like Severus to fool him, without a very good reason.

2, Snape saved Harry's life. If we are questioning Snapes character, then we must take into account that if he is against DD, or in favor of LV, then he would make little effort to spare the life of the child that all but eliminated LV's existence. Regardless of those watching, no one knew who was trying to kill Harry, but it is curious, if Snape has not been working with DD for a long time about the prophecy and the possibility of LV's return and Harry's necessity, why Snape would work so hard to save his life, regardless of a life debt. He didn't seem to care about his life Debt to James from the prank Serius tried to play on him as children.

3. Only upon the discovery that LV has indeed returned does Snape return to his old position, and DD seems to regard it as an obvious action when Snape asks if he should. Since he questioned the ligitimacy of returning to LV it would seem to imply that he wasn't inclined to return to LV. In addition, his consulation of the guy from the other magic school (the darker school), sorry I forgot his name and the schools name, seems to look as if he was helping a DE disappear.

4. During his Occlumency lessons with Harry, he searches Harry's mind for embarrassing moment rather than weaknesses that LV could use against him. This wouldn't be advantageous to anyone but himself. Neither DD nor LV would care about who was flushing Harry's head in a toilet.

5. DD mentions to Harry that ever since Riddle was turned down for the DADA job, it has been cursed and each new teacher will only have it for one year before something occurs that would make it impossible for them to keep it. If that is the case, why would he allow snape to take the position if in fact he wasn't expecting Snape to have to vacate the school anyway.

6. When Harry confronts DD on his discovery that Snape is the one that gave the prophecy to LV, DD shows signs of loss or shock or failure with the description of his face turning white. I think this was meant to forshadow that Harry's decreased trust and increased hatred of Snape is bound to reduce is acceptence of a secret plan, or his cooperation with Snape in further "missions"

7. When Snape makes the unbreakable Vow, he flinches on the third part concerning finishing the mission. Either he doesn't know what the mission is, and is uncomfortable working for LV, or he knows what it is and really doesn't want to kill LV. Either way, he is sympathetic to anti-LV groups.

8. Upon the DE's entering Hogwarts, snape merely stupefy's flitwick, and does a beeline to DD, where he kills him, and then escapes with Draco. He makes no violoent or damaging spell attempts at anyone at Hogwarts throughout the escape. This looks like perhaps he was only following orders to honor the Vow, but leave the rest of the Order intact.

9. Snape only uses a damaging spell as a last resort against Harry, which only temporarily immobilizes him. If he were really on LV's side, he would probably have used crucio, or another dark spell or unforgivable spell. His lake of dark magic throughout the series is a testement to his being loyal to DD.

10. Upon his flight from Hogwarts, Snape offers words of training to Harry, that he won't stand a chance until he can learn to keep his mouth shut and his mind closed. If Snape is looking to help LV, you'd think he wouldn't offer Harry and friendly advice at all.

Well, have at them if you have the time, I'd love to see approaches to these that would show him being on LV's side.

not sure weather anyone has mentioned this before but here goes...this is what i think will happen




dumbledore knew of voldemorets plans for malfoly to kill dumbledore so he asked snape to help malfoly the best he could to save his innocence.

anyother strange event is dumbledores appointment of snape as defence against the dark arts teacher.
The reason i think that dumbledore gave snape the job is to free him up from teaching resposibatlitys so he could souly focus on the order.
and as we know, the job is cursed by none other then voldy so like we know, snape fled at the end of the year.

i agree with the past posters, that snape is good at heart, and that what he did was of dumbleores wished, but i dont think that he will reture, like he has mentioned repeatidly, that their is no spell that can bring back the dead.



-Sarah

As much as i wish to find a loophole i am quite sure that dd is not coming back although as harry rightly states dumbledore is not gone as long as people loyal to him remain. I am sure that whether through his wise words, his past actions or something else that in the end it will be dumbledore who helps harry defeat voldemort, however it will ultimatly be harry's job. I just think that everything dd has done, everything he has shown harry has set up to give harry everything he needs to defeat the dark lord.

I think that Snape really was on DDs side and betraying LV but even if he wasn't i know that DD would not have taken the chance of leaving harry helpless in the case that Snape really did betray him...ok am i making sense? i just mean that DD would have thought of the fact that Snape may indeed betray him, no matter how much DD trusted him he is not a stupid man, i think that Snape knew that whatever happens with DD dead or alive in the end it was up to Harry to defeat LV not DD, not anyone else just Harry. Even with the death of DD i am sure he had already taught harry everything he needs and given him powerful weapons within himself, such as knowledge. So in the end i still think everything comes down to whether or not you trust DDs judgment and i for one think that Snape is ultimatly betraying LV even if it appears to be the other way round on the surface.

Professor Dumbledore is dead.

Whether Snape actually betrayed the Order remains to be seen (more on that later).

'Snape was a highly accomplished Occlumens,' said Lupin, his voice uncharacteristically harsh. 'We always knew that.'

If Dumbledore believed that Harry could have learned Occlumency to block out Voldemort's thoughts (GoF), then Snape definitely could have some measure of control of what he revealed or did not reveal to Dumbledore.

'I've... I've done it, Professor,' he choked. 'M - moved him.'

Hagrid was appointed with the job of moving (the deceased) Dumbledore. Unless Hagrid doesn't know a dead body when he sees one, or is involved in a conspiracy to make it appear as though Dumbledore is dead, it's highly unlikely that Dumbledore is still alive


BUT maybe it was supposed to happen. Given the state that the final book ended in, the argument can go either way. I, for one would like to believe that Dumbledore is wiser than that.

'Severus... please...'

Many people speculated that Dumbledore wouldn't show such pitiful behaviour before he was murdered. However...

The sound frightened Harry beyond anything he has experienced all evening. For the first time, Dumbledore was pleading.

It doesn't specify at all within fifty pages what he pleaded for. It can be assumed that Dumbledore is begging for his own life however many others have already interpreted in their own way (pleading for Draco or for the sake of the Order).

My own interpretation was that Dumbledore was asking Snape to do it. To kill him so that Malfoy's hands would not be tainted and Voldemort would be somewhat satisfied (maybe... some people are not convinced). In the end, I believe that Snape did it all on Dumbledore's orders. I'd like to believe that Dumbledore's still alive but played it out to fool Voldemort, but I'm not really convinced. Snape: Is he really a murdering traitor or is ther something deeper?

I think this is the first time that a character development scheme and mystery(ies?) stretched over more than one book. I guess we're gonna have to wait for the seventh (and apparently, final) book.

I think that if you look at how upset Snape was after the death of Dumbledore, you can see that it was something that he didn't want to do and that it was permanent. My take has always been that the reason Snape flips at Harry for calling him a coward was that he had just done the most difficult thing anyone in the order had ever been asked to do. He killed his friend and mentor. He killed the only person that really trusted him or cared for him. He was also putting himself past the point of no return. He could no longer come back to the Order because they would kill him and if he slipped up working as a spy, he would be killed by Voldemort. He is in a very dangerous place and he knows it. I don't think that he would have gotten so upset if Dumbledore was just "playing dead".

Vulturemort -- I so totally agree with you. But I do have hopes that Snape is not beyond the point of no return ... you are reckoning without Harry's power of love ... they have some difficult issues to resolve, but once he can see Snape's problems he is not beyond forgiving him.
I'm not certain if Snape is going to survive all this, it's quite possible that he will die in the process, but I do hope that he will be understood by Harry, and forgiven.

in book 6 says that after snape uses the curse then dumbledore fly in the air but when someone usually says avada kedavra the person just falls down stiff to the ground i think snape verbally said avada kedavra but in mind used some other spell what do u guys think i think dumbledore is still alive

hhmm, i dont think that its JK Rowlings style to kill someone and then just bring them back, i wouldnt like it if they did it would be so tacky.

Their is something very strange going on with Dumbledores death and in the end thier will be some explination, but i found it hard to believe that Dumbledore had no idea of these future events so i think taht snape killed him under dumbledores repuest.

-Sarah

Good reasoning, Daxav ... as far as Snape's alliance and motivations are concerned ...
I think, however, that Snape is very good at dissembling his thoughts and compartmentalising his mind, hiding truths away from everyone (including himself even) ... he has probably been doing that all his life, so he'd be more adept at it than Dumbledore, and Dumbledore would know it ... I don't think that Dumbledore would lie to him, and risk losing Snape's loyalty, which is founded on mutual trust and respect, after all.

I am really hoping that Snape's loyalty is kept a secret until the very end of book 7. It would be great if we didn't know what Snape was going to do until the moment of truth. I see Snape being in a position to go either way at the end of the book and it will be crucial to who wins or loses. I think it's a great set up. I don't want to see Snape coming to Harry in any way to try to explain it all. With Harry's feelings toward Snape, I don't think there is anything Snape would be able to say to Harry that would convince him. I'm fairly positive that Snape is on Dumbledore's side, but I also have some strange feeling that he is on nobody's side and is just trying to play everyone to get himself into a position of power. That would be the ultimate twist that nobody expects.

some good ideas, when it comes down to it i really do think that snape is betraying voldemort not DD or the order. We all know already that he had to kill DD after making that vow, DD knew about the Vow, he assumable knew draco's task which means he knew that this would probably lead to his death, either his death or the death of malfoy/snape. Dumbledore is the type of man who would sacrifice himself for the greater good. As i have said before DD would have met the end of his own accord very soon after even if he was not murdered...he is getting much older and as we can tell and as he himself mentions, his reflexes and ability to react in situations is a lot slower, he grew weaker and weaker during the entire book, and for what? he did to help harry in his fight to defeat voldemort, by teaching him things, risking his life to destroy the horcruxes so that harry will one day have a clear go at destroying LV. We do remember that Snape was far from enthusiastic in making the unbreakable vow. I feel that he knew what he was getting in to and would have avoided this at all costs. However he may also not have known what he was agreeing to, this doesn't matter, because he knew it was a task given to draco by LV, if he makes the unbreakable vow this means he may eventually get the glory and praise from the dark lord, death eaters usually jump for joy for these opportunities and these special tasks. They want nothing more than to serve their master, but as we can see snape is not bragging, not saying it would be his pleasure to help malfoy do the dark lords biding, he is not happy to be delegated the task of finishing off what malfoy started should he be unable to complete it.

ah, i did not indtruce myself
i'm a new user and i'm from italy.
just wanted to say hello to every one

Hello MargheritaDolceVita! Welcome to VTM forums. Before posting agian, please go have a lok at the RULES forums, the link is in my signature.

There is a forum for New Members, "Newbies Central" where you can properly introduce yourself to the other members here and also get properly "Hello'ed" back. Your last post really belongs in that thread.

If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to PM (Private Message) any Mod or Prefect, we are here to help!

Happy Posting!

I must admit that when I first read it I thought Snape was the worst human being on earth. I actually hated him more than Voldemort at that moment, but as I thought about it I realized that maybe he had to do it. Because of the Vow, and Draco and maybe the stuff Dumbledore drank back in the cave would have killed him eventually anyway. Who knows. But I think Snape is really betraying Voldemort.

If you take into consideration what JKR said about the 3rd movie and how it forshadows things in the 6th and 7th book, you have to look at what scenes in the movie were really different. The one that comes to mind off the top of my head is the scene where Snape shields the Trio from the werewolf...it shows him protecting them...in the movie they could have just kept him unconscience....my friend told me that she thought maybe (since JKR hardly ever introduces an important spell and only uses it once) that maybe Snape had a vow with Dumbledore from before, a vow to protect Harry. Maybe that's why DD trusted Snape so much. He knew that Snape would never harm Harry or he'd die. There was a really good essay that explained all this so much better than I have...I wish I could find it. Well, that's my 2 cents.

goodness Lucius, i was under the impression that you didn't like snape! -lol-

but, now that i do think about, it does seem like a good argument...hmm. that could very well be possible. but, does that mean that he is willing to fight off LV and all the death-eaters? it doesn't really seem like he is willing to do that (to me it doesn't). and once again, im am still believing in my theory -imperious curse-.

it's a very good idea though....it could possibly have happened.

Another reason why I think it had to be Snape to kill Dumbledore (other than the theories others have posted), is that we wouldn't have accepted Dumbledore's death at the hand of anyone one wizard, save maybe Voldemort, without something being more to the story.

If VM had murdered DD, we would have been angry of course but not surprised that he did it. Having Snape do it is a brilliant twist (not exactly the most pleasing) to the relationship that Snape has with all of the characters in this story, most importantly Harry.

I think that as JK has said, in this style of writing the hero must often go on and face his enemy on his own (without their mentor/etc.) The wise old wizard/witch usually dies and if it had waited to happen in the last book, we really wouldn't have time to mourn and for Harry to get his head on straight again.

I think Snape will turn out good at least in some way and will be the ultimate reason for Voldemort's defeat. Harry will obviously have a big part, but will not be able to do it without Snape's powers and knowledge

Just a small comment... I think that we should try to discuss the topic at hand with arguments that are derived from de story, plot clues, character psycology, etc. Many arguments are what some people call "meta-story" thinking... Perhaps you will agree that saying "JKR wouldn't do this" or that "she would have that character do that" is hardly an argument derived from the plot... (things such as JKR trying to show something or making a statement with something do not speak of the fiction we are so fond of). Sorry for the intromision...

Back on topic... I find Lucius comment rather intresting, although still a little "meta". I do agree however that Snape has been protective. Once again, we should expect that for he is a Hogwarts teacher.
Thanks Bumblebee! You helped me discard the idea that Dumbledore would not trust Snape with his "fake death plan". Good argument.
There is something that I feel we have left out from the discussion... and I find essential for our topic. The reason of why Dumbledore trust Snape so much. If Snape knew of Dumbledore's plan (hence not betraying him), what has he done to deserve such great trust... more trust perhaps than McGonnagal recieves from DD?? DD has shown trust many times in characters that others don't trust... Hagrid, Harry, even Voldemort at some point... we don't question why he ever trusted Hagrid... we understand why he trust Harry... but why would he trust Snape... just because he turned spy? just because he was a gifted wizard with regret... I don't think so... Of course there is somethig much deeper. Now, how could Snape, who actually is in debt for his life (according to what we know about the Death Eaters trials) with Dumbledore just go ahead and betray him? Why would he help him in the first place? Was he too scared? I don't think so... I think he has to much of a thirst to prove himself to turn just because of fear. He most certainly earned DD trust, and learned to trust DD just as much... we know so little of DD friendships and relationships... in the end, Dumbledore trusts Snape with his life... and I think he delivers for he ultimately is giving his life, at least as he knows it to be... no more teaching, no more Hogwarts, his mentor and protector dead (or seeming to be)... forevermore regarded as evil and trecherous... I think that Snape is actually having a very hard time... can we actually feel sorry for him?