Okay, I don't want this to turn into a "is Snape good or evil?" debate, simply to know people's thoughts on a question.

Dumbledore says that he was only saved from serious injury over the summer by Professor Snape's quick thinking. To have saved him, it was necessary for Snape to know that Dumbledore was hurt trying to destroy a horcrux. This leads me to several possible conclusions:

Dumbledore destroyed the ring in the presence of Snape
OR
Dumbledore was hurt by the horcrux and apparated to Spinner's End

If the first is true then does Snape know the full extent of the horcrux plot?
If the second is true, did Dumbledore tell Snape about the horcruxes then (and possibly have been overheard by Wormtail?)

Thanks

I can only be sure that if Wormtail overhears something, he'd run fast to LV to tell him about it and I don't believe in Wormtail's redemption. At least it was like that until GoF end. Wormtail's a coward; maybe he'd like to escape from LV's eyes in a fear of cutting the second hand off?

Yeah, I think Wormtail would use such information to his advantage wherever possible. I think he'd actually like to live out his life as a rat, hassle free and without threat - other than from Crookshanks!

Ooh this is a good one, I believe the first one was correct. I think apparating to spinner;s end would have been ill-advised because then anyone watching Snape would have noticed him saving DD. I think that Snape and DD hunted them together just as DD and Harry were hunting them. (Sorry to say this but it does help the Snape is good thoery-that's all on that topic sorry to diverge)

It all depends where they spend their summers really doesn't it? I got the impression Snape didn't actually stay at Spinners end much (from the state of the place), and I never thought of Dumbledore living anywhere except Hogwarts.
When I read the 'Professor Snape's quick thinking' bit, I got the feeling (quite unjustified), that both of them were at Hogwarts and DD called in Snape once he got hurt and couldn't fix it himself, much like he was trying to do with Harry. We have seen DD keep his cards close to his chest so he might not have told snape what happened.

This is a very good topic for discussion.

Your logic makes sense, and sounds very possible...
but what do you mean by "and Wormtail overhears him"??
Wormtail does not live with Snape!! How could he get into Snapes house to hear him?? And if Snape knew he was around, he surely would not allow Dumbledore to explain the whole story to him, with the possibility of the Rat overhearing!!

Have re-read a bit of HBP last night and it does appear that Dumbledore claims to have returned straight to Hogwarts following his injury, so this thread may deaden off a bit. Just to explain some of my other points that have been eloquently disputed:

felix_felicis_444 -

No, the book said that it appeared as though some of the skin had been melted away. It was a burn...

.... geeze. people. It was said over and over again in the book. Dumbledores arm was black, like he had been burnt. not "melted" just black, like a charred stick of some sort.

Sooooo with this information I would like to go on. When things catch fire, they burn, and when things burn they die. Therefor we can easily assume that Dumbledores arm is dead, either from a burn or intentional. (I.E. Killed his arm in order to not turn into a zombie or die completely... yada yada yada)

So yeah, its starting to make sense now.... oh well. I'l lcontinue later.

cheese puff?

I do not think Dumbledore went to Spinners End. I think He met with Snape at Hogwarts. That would be where all the potions Snape would need are. As for Dumbledore's injury, inferi did not burn or rot the flesh off Harry when they grabbed him in the cave. Therefor, Dumbledore's injury must have come from a spell on the horcrux as He destroyed it.

So, does Snape know that Voldemort has made horcruxes; and, what is more, does he know that Dumbledore has been off trying to collect and destroy them?

It is clear that most people in the Order of the Phoenix don't know anything about the Horcruxes. Obviously, from a plot point-of-view, this makes sense: the more people know about the horcruxes, the easier it will be for Voldemort (e.g., through capture and torture) to find out that his enemies know about his horcruxes, thus meaning he will even take further steps to protect them. So, when Harry runs in to Tonks outside the Room of Requirement, she says she doesn't know what Dumbledore is up to when he leaves Hogwarts (p. 465, US edition). Similarly, at the end of HBP, McGonagall makes it plain that she did not know what Dumbledore was up to. Harry refuses to tell her (p. 626, US edition).

But there are hints that Snape must know. Dumbledore states that it was Snape who saved his life when he injured himself retrieving the Peverell ring which had belonged to Marvolo Gaunt:

I am sure that Snape and Dumbledore spoke about the Horcruxes. It is clear that Snape helped save him after he was wounded retrieving the ring. It is also clear that Dumbledore had no reservations in telling Harry to let Snape know what had happened with the locket Horcrux. It is possible that Dumbledore wanted Snape to help patch him up again the night he was killed, but I have always thought that Dumbledore knew that the time had come for Snape to fulfill his oath to Narcissa. I think that the master plan for that night had been roughly laid out for some time, hence the argument between the two that Hagrid overheard. Dumbledore knew that Snape was more important than he was in the grand scheme of things and that by sacrificing himself he would strengthen Snape's relationship with Voldemort. He asked for Snape because he knew that the Death Eaters and Malfoy were on their way. He knew he had to die and Snape knew he had to do it.

I don't think that Snape has anything to do with finding and destroying horcruxes. His job is to be on the inside to help the Order. Perhaps Snape has another task that he must complete that we don't know about yet, one that would require him to be close to Voldemort. I think that Dumbledore has chosen Harry to collect the Horcruxes and keep up the work that Dumbledore had started.

Wow, HiddenHorcrux, you raise some very good points here. Thank you for reminding me of the clues.

Yes, Snape could have known everything about the Horcruxes. "Tell him what happened" does seem to point in that direction. Snape's help in saving Dumbledore's life earlier does make it look as if Snape knew what Dumbledore was doing too.

Is it possible that Snape only knew vaguely what Dumbledore was doing, "removing evil objects of power" (for want of a better phrase) or so? Snape would certainly know that Dumbledore's search was dangerous and that the wounds he had been asked to heal had been caused by defences of great power. He might even have implored Dumbledore to let him accompany him on these quests (at which Dumbledore would certainly have said that each of them had their own task). Did he know that the objects were Horcruxes? It's possible that he didn't...

Then again, Snape isn't a fool. He has been a DE, knows the Dark Arts, might he not have guessed that Voldemort had Horcruxes? Why would he have known less than R.A.B., or was R.A.B.'s discovery of the locket's function a fluke? On the other hand, R.A.B. and Snape drew their conclusions in secret, lived in constant suspicion of the people around them, and would not have confided in anyone, so it's quite typical of JKR's irony that they missed the opportunity to unite.
So Snape, not being a fool, could have known and he could even have been the one telling Dumbledore about the Horcruxes, if Dumbledore hadn't arrived at this knowledge himself already.

More reasons for Snape knowing about Horcruxes: Dumbledore's absolute trust in Snape. Snape's ability to keep secrets. Snape's ability to dissemble...

Thanks again, Hidden Horcrux. It now seems to me that Snape must have known, both about the Horcruxes and about Dumbledore's work to locate and destroy them. But he doesn't know that Harry knows. This is interesting...

Thanks for the positive feedback, both of you!

Great point, bumblebee, about Snape not knowing that Harry knows. That hadn't even occurred to me. I think you're right--it's totally possible that Snape believes that no one but himself and Dumbledore knew about the horcruxes. If Snape is truly evil (I'm a Snape-is-still-good believer, myself), this could really work to Harry's advantage in the next book. Great insight!

Hey everyone! I have a feeling that Snape is still on the good side but it is fooling voldemort,remember he is an accomplished legelimens! And I think that dumbledore might have mentioned it to snape, but didnt dumbledore say to harry that they were the only ones who knew about it? But if he did tell snape harry wouldnt know because could you imagine his reaction if he found out that snape knew about it? And if snape knows and is "still" on the good side, he would tell voldemort because can't voldemort sense things or am I imagining things.

Sorry to stray from the topic but harry made me frustrated when he didnt really care about R.A.B, didnt he irritate you?I think if we find out who RAB is then it might have something to do with snape or dumbledore.

Thanks for chatting!!!

This topic seems pretty close to the Snape Good or Evil threads but you raise an interesting thought.

I think you are correct in assuming Snape was the only member of the order with knowledge about the horcruxes. But, if this is true, will Harry tell the rest of the order? He might realize when he tells them about his quest to go crusading around the world trying to destroy the horcruxes, the order would not allow him because of the danger.

As for the second part of the question, I think Snape has been helping DD get information on the horcruxes because I personally believe Snape is good, but I won't state my reasons here.

its possible so snape might go and get the horcuxes and harry and him meet up and theres a huge fight and harry kills snape it be so awseome, but nethings possible, and snape will prolly team up w/ voldy well just wait and see is suppose...

There is another possibilty, that completely sidesteps the question of Snape good/evil. The source, however, is the Sorceror's Stone movie, so some may not call it canon.

In the very first Potions class scene, Snape says, "[potions] can even put a stopper in death itself." Then Snape and Malfoy exchange knowing looks. I take this to mean that Malfoy already has at least some vague, general knowledge about the "measures" Voldemort has taken, and that Snape already has detailed knowledge of horcruxes, as did Slugworth when he was Potions master. Further, I believe that Snape has some knowledge that Voldemort has at least researched horcruxes. But why (or how) does it come to be that snape hasn't communicated this to Dumbledore?

Answer: Since knowledge of Horcruxes is Voldemort's most closely guarded secret, Voldemort has placed something like an unbreakable vow on Snape, not to divulge or even hint to Dumbledore etc., that Voldemort has horcruxes. Thus, Snape could know a lot, and Dumbledore could accept that Snape knows things he is unable to tell, just as Voldemort accepts that Snape knows the location of the Order's headquarters, but is unable to reveal that secret.



Personally, I think Snape knows all about Horcruxes from his years of research, and fascination with the Dark Arts. Also, I believe that Snape is tolerated by Voldemort, because of this knowledge, which may be greater than Voldemort's own. But I don't really think Voldemort trusts Snape.

I am a firm believer in Snape...still lol I believe what he did was on Dumbledore's orders.

And with that I believe Snape knows about the Horcruxes, he's very smart when it comes to Dark Magic and he's probably more familiar with them than anyone lets on. Though I doubt he'd make his own.



I like this bit. it gives me new hope Dumbledore is not dead. "can even put a stopper in death" I love it!

I dont have alot to say, so ill just say this. I believe snape dose know about the horcruxes DD would insure this before he let snape kill him, so harry would have help finding and destroying the horcruxes. Though the only problem we have now is will harry ever trust severus snape?

I think Snape knows all about the horcruxes, in fact i believe he may have helped Voldemort make some of them( Im one of those who thinks you have to have two people in the procees of creating a horcrux). So maybe if Snape is good....he can help Harry. But yeah,Im pretty sure he knows.

I agree with starlight ! Yes, I do think that Snape knows everything about the horcruxes , because I whant to remember to all that once ,he was a Death-Eater! I think that Voldemort told Snape everything about the horcruxes : how many they are, where are the locations that they are hidden, EVERYTHING! And....I'm not very sure if he will help Harry to find and eliminate them touth

Well most of these differing arguements are due to the opinion of wether snape if on the side of good or not.

starlight-

We have heard that snape is very close to LV, though i do not believe he helped LV with his horcruxes. I believe LV started makeing his horcruxes far before he met severus snape.

i would say that snape does know of them and that voldemort has them but i dont think he know how many there are or what their in or what the look like

i think he might. it depends. i mean L.V isnt exactly a social person to go and discuss where his soul is hidden. so maybe not.i dont think he knows but then again, people still arent sure if snape is evil or not. but come on!!! what POSSIBLE good can come from dumbledore being murdered. he just destroyed harry's last defence, the person that always comes and saves him in really tights spots at the last minute, like the fourth book with crouch, he saved him then from getting killed, and in the the ministry in the fifth book, where he came and in the first book i think when harry couldnt see anymore because the scar hurt too much, dumbledore came to the rescue. i mean he is the greatest person alive. how could you possibly be doing any good by killing him.so in response to the question i'd have to say no, i dont think snape would know. but then again, you dont exactly know where snape is. L.V told him about "the plan" in HBP. so who knows.

to add one more thing. im still not sure, i think i agree with somebody when they said that snape knows they exist but not where or what they are. i mean i think i might agree with that because this is the half-blood-prince here. snape was a really smart person that invented his own spells, so he could probably figure out something like this. but i dont think he knows any of the details.

Well, I'm not going to say it was a good thing to do, but there are moments in life when you only have the choice between evils and therefor try to do whatever is the best out of a lot of bad choices. Yes it's a childrens book but yet JKR doesn't seem one who paints everything black and white only. And I think we all agree that the world isn't black and white either

But I think this does lead off topic now

Concerning the original question it might be possible if Dumbledore told Snape about the horcruxes. But apart from that I don't see any chance he could know. Even Malfoy didn't know the diary he kept was a horcrux. I doubt Voldemort would tell any one, even his death eaters

Well maybe snape does know about them. But i don't really thinks it makes a differentce to the book. Maybe Snape if hes evil (which i dont think so) would tell LV if he knew about them and DD and harry trying to destoy them but i duno.

I bet that Snape knows all about the Horcrux plot. If he is trusted enough by Voldemort to kill Dumbledore, then Voldemort probably would have told him about the horcruxes so he would know what Dumbledore was doing and help him. Knowing that Dumbledore is hunting horcruxes would help Snape help him to get Dumbledore's trust and make him think that he is good, therefore making it easier for Snape to turn around and kill Dumbledore. I also think this because Snape knew that Dumbledore would arrive from hunting with Harry where he did, and Dumbledore probably told him.

Snape has to be good/has to have known about the horcruxes.
In the Goblet of fire LV spacifically says.. American version page 648
"And i ask myself , How could they believe I would not rise again. They who knew the steps I took , long ago,to guard myself against mortal death.

Lv was refering to his DE in the graveyard.

OK so now we know they KNEW of the horcruxes.. But they may have not known which items were Horcruxes.

Snape however poses a different problem . First it should be noted Jo has written in Horrible continuity before. Now if all the Death Eaters were trying to get the prohacy in the OOP why the hell didnt Snape simply give the WHOLE prophacy to LV after all he had DD Pensive in his office and could easily have seen it.
That was just one of many things that i believe prove Snape has to be on the side of "good" persay. well either that or Jo has blown her continuity again.
DD also I believe had to tell snape about the Horcruxes because... He was wearing Slytherins Ring
I would find it hard to believe that Snape the Head of Slytherin and LVs DE would not recognize it instantly.

Also Remember that Snape was Livid that Harry was in the Pensive in his office. Why? well Harrys Mind which was wide open to LV would/could show that Snape had access to all of DD thoughts/memorys .. this might pose some interesting problems to Snape talking to LV.

Tonight I found a new clue in HBP, p. 500 (American edition).

About multiple horcruxes:

Dumbledore: "... No book would have given him that information. As far as I know --- as far, I am sure, as Voldemort knew --- no wizard had ever done more than tear his soul in two." ...

Then,

... "Four years ago I received ... certain proof that Voldemort had split his soul." ... "The diary, Riddle's diary"...


What's this saying? That Dumbledore knew all that books could tell him about horcruxes, all the known theory of them, but even so, he wasn't sure that Voldemort had created one until Harry told him about the diary.

Therefore, if Snape knew about Voldemort's horcrux(s), he was under some sort of enchantment that prevented him from telling Dumbledore.

I'm sure Snape knows as much about horcruxes as Dumbledore. See my previous post on Page 2, this thread, about the first Potions lesson in PS. There's no way that Snape, with his fascination with the Dark Arts, would have missed learning all he could about horcruxes.



Now, the question in my mind is, Since Chamber of Secrets, have Snape and Dumbledore learned anything about multiple horcruxes that even Voldemort doesn't know? I think they have.

Yeah. Maybe Snape did know about the Horcruxes. At first i thought Dumby mau have told him about them but then i remembered he used to be a death eater so maybe he knew but he couldn't tell dumbledore becoz of some spell. Or maybe he didn't know that dumby was tracking down Voldy's Horcruxes.

More mystery...


Anyways, support SNAPE!!!

I think that Severus did know about horcruxes. I think he knew because he was facinated with the dark arts and would have come across them in one of his study sessions. I also believe that as a Death Eater, Snape would have been privy to the knowledge that Voldemort made Horcruxes though he probably didn't know how many existed. Voldemort most likely would not have shared such valualbe information seeing as he really didn't have any people he trusted. I think part of Voldemorts idea of ruling by fear would be to let the Death Eaters know that he couldn't die, so he would have told them about the horcruxes.

Because of this knowledge, I believe that Snape was the only other person besides Harry that Dumbledore told about the horcrux hunt. It was because of this that Dumbledore could freely confide in Snape about what curse protected that ring horcrux so Severus could heal DD's hand the best he could.

It is my belief that somehow in Book 7 Snape will have vital information regarding a horcrux that will help Harry.

Snape is being much more credit than he deserves. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Snape had any inkling about Tom's source of immortality. Tom is neither foolish nor trusting enough to impart such knowledge to any of his death eaters many of whom are much higher in hierarchy than Snape. Dumbledore himself has many secrets that he keeps to himself and as much as eh trusts Snape it is highly unlikely that he would confide everything in him.

Snape's loyalties are at best ambiguous and at worst with Tom and being the kind of person he is-someone who puts his own survival before everything else, such an information in his hands would be highly dangerous not to mention untrustworthy and neither Dumbledore nor Tom are fools, unless it turns out that one of them was genuinely fooled by Snape all along. Dumbledore trusted Snape but never told him the full contents of the prophecy and it's unlikely that he told him about horcruxes. Snape will be an important but a peripheral player in the scheme of things. Just because he stopped the curse from spreading beyond Dumbledore's arm doesn't mean that he knew that it happened because it was protecting a horcrux. There are several cursed objects and multiple ways to achieve immortality. I would love to see any evidence that suggests that Snape knows about horcruxes

Fortunately for many of us here, the title of this thread is not Show Evidence That Snape Knew About The Horcruxes. All we can humbly do is speculate and share our opinions. Some are of the opinion that Snape is selfish and untrustworthy. Some believe that he is ultimately on Voldemorts side while others maintain his faithfulness to Dumbledore and the Order. Actually none of the above really matter here. What I base my opinions on are slight references in the text.
Unfortunately I dont have the books right in front of me but hopefully, I will be able to edit this post tomorrow with actual page numbers.

GoF-In the graveyard, Voldemort lectures his Death Eaters telling them they who knew the steps he had taken to avoid death or he who has gone farther then anyone in preventing death...something to that effect. This to me suggest that Voldemort has imparted some knowledge about his horcruxes even if he did not tell the Death Eaters exactly how many or where they were. We all remember that Severus was a Death Eater at one point though I wish at times he wasn't

HBP-Apart from Dumbledore saying he trust Severus completely, to me the biggest evidence that Severus knew about the horcruxes came when Dumbledore was hurt. He asks that Severus be summoned, not Madam Pomfry. I am of the opinion that in order to cure a wound, you must know how the wound was sustained. I believe DD told Severus when he first injured his hand with the ring horcrux and I believe that DD would have told Severus about the nasty potion he had to drink in the cave.

Again, this is all speculation. It's just what I think. If there was cold hard evidence on the subject, we wouldn't have such a wonderful topic to discuss.

I'm sure that he came across them somewhere in his study of the Dark Arts. Because of his stumbling upon the matter of Horcruxes, he would have been able to recognize to some extent the Horcruxes that Voldemort was making.

On a different thread some time ago, I think I theorized the possibility of Snape knowing about the Horcruxes and in turn telling Dumbledore about them, thus giving Dumbledore a very good reason to fully trust Snape. I'm not really sure about this idea, but it could fit.

I think that Snape might know about the horcruxs'. I think that he probably knows because he is now one of Voldemorts most trusted and I think that Voldemort might have entrusted Snape with this info. Also he had to save DD from one, and Snape probably asked questions, and had to know what was happening to DD to save him.

That is the same type of thing that I was thinking about. LV is very intelligent, he just doesn't channel it into anything positive, and therefore he wouldn't tell something as important as where his Horcruxes are to anyone without making sure that there's enough guarding the information. Since Snape was highly sought to by LV, then I wouldn't doubt that he was entrusted with the information, however as I said, I wouldn't doubt if that wasn't enough for LV, and he still guarded his information heavily.


That's a very good point that I hadn't thought about! That would make sense that DD would look immediately onto Snape for help with his hand, if he was aware of Snape knowing how to deal with the Horcruxes. Unfortunately, that counterdictates what I just said in the sense that helping DD would probably be a violation of any spell that LV could've placed on Snape.