Crazy Snape's Birthday is 6 days after mine, whoo for Janurary.

Too much firewiskey heheh

First, I love Severus Snape. He and Lupin are my all time favorite characters.

The Second thing is that I think Snape serves neither Dumbledore or Voldemort. I think he serves his own interests first and foremost. I think that he went to Dujmbledore as a back up in case Voldemort fell, and will jump to which ever side he thinks will win at the last possible moment. I think that Snape gives both sides just enough to fully trust him, but gives neither the whole story.

I also think that Snape's boggart is his father. This is generally seen as a common theory and is not shocking at all.

What is more surprising is that everyone assumes that the Patronus must be an animal. JKR said in an interview that James's Patronus was a teacup. (GO TO
www.redhen-publications.com/Potterverse.html to learn more. GREAT ESSAYS Cannot Stress enough) To see the thing about James's Patronus check out the editorial "James Profession" ALSO reccomend the other essay/ editorials on this site. Anyway just wanted to make the point about Snape, his Patronus and Patronuses in general, and to plug Redhen.

Peace, I'm Out [COLOR=red]

A teacup??!!! LMAO!!!!!! You can't be serious!!! Erm...if JKR ever did say that, I reckon there might have been a touch of sarcasm in there.... A teacup, indeed.....**sniggers** It's hard to imagine a teacup charging down Dementors....unless she was doing an interview for the BBC's Comic Relief or something......

Anywho...I do agree that Snape's boggart is most likely his father, and I found something the other day in OotP that made me think that Snape's father is going to come into the story a lot more soon. In the chapter 'St Mungo's...etc', towards the beginning, when Harry goes to see Dumbledore to talk about the vision of Mr Weasley he's just had, there are two portraits mentioned - Everard and Dilys. JKR doesn't give the surname of either of them, which I find highly suspicious considering that she usually does - Elfrida Cragg, Phineas Nigellus, Armando Dippet etc...plus the description she gave of Everard as being 'sallow-faced' and with 'a short, black fringe' (or 'bangs' in the AE, probably.) As soon as I read it, I thought...mmm....that description sounds familiar. Perhaps Everard wouldn't be Snape's father because he would probably be too young, but what about his grandfather or great grandfather? I just thought that it was a little strange that no surname was mentioned and the description was so like Snape. I can't imagine what connection his family history might have with the story, but then, JKR spent an awful lot of time recounting Sirius' family tree....perhaps family history is going to become important soon, especially in the light of all those theories about Harry's heritage and the HBP.

First let me say that I try really hard to like Snape, but every time I start thinking that maybe he is not such a bad guy he does something that irritates me again. Every time he starts going on about Harry being like James I want to shout, “Harry is not his father, and it was like 20 years ago- get over it already!” But anyway…

I was thinking about Snape going back to the Death Eaters as a spy… at one of the occlumency lessens Snape learns that Harry has had a dream about LV, anyway, Snape tells Harry that it is not his job to learn about DE activities and Harry snaps back “No- that’s your job, isn’t it?” Snape says with an “almost satisfied expression” that it is, and then they go on with the lessen. I don’t know if Snape is telling the truth here or just toying with Harry again because of a couple of reasons.

1. In Goblet, LV says that he believes that he has lost Snape forever, which might mean that he thinks that he can get Snape back- it would be good to have a spy at Hogwarts. All Snape would have to say is that he couldn’t apparate to the graveyard when LV called because DD was watching him or something. And because of the occlumency LV wouldn’t know he was lying.

2. On the other hand, I know that Snape could have fooled the other Death Eaters, in that he was still loyal to LV, but remember book 1. LV possessed Quirrell so LV would have known that Snape was actively trying to stop Quirrell from getting the stone. I don’t think that this is something the LV would forgive.

MOD EDIT: There is no need for double-post. Whatever you want to add to your previous post can be done by clicking the 'edit' button on top right of your post. I've delete your second post, but this is what it said...

So I just thought of something else related to my last post… Maybe LV thought that Snape was trying to keep the stone away from Quirrell because he (Snape) didn’t know that Quirrell was trying to get the stone for Voldemort. I hope that made some since. If Voldemort didn’t know whom to trust he would not have let anyone in on his plan to get the stone- even one of his Death Eaters. On the other hand, having Quirrell and Snape both try to get the stone would have made it easier for Voldemort. I guess it depends on whether or not Voldemort still had faith in Snape’s loyalty to him.

What if The Order of the Phoenix is the turning point for the 'hate despise' relationship?
By Harry invading Snape's Pensive, and Harry partly blaming Snape for the loss of his godfather the relationship between these two characters is (if it is possible) at an all time low.
How can either character hate each other more?
I think that maybe in the half blood prince with Sirius gone, professor Snape may appreciate finally that Harry is not James (and not responsible for him being bullied at school) and is now all alone with no parents or godfather to fight his corner, as Sirius did in the order of the phoenix. He may also feel as though Harry has gained some insights into why he despises James so much and so laying the foundations for a greater understanding, for Harry of why professor Snape detests Harry so much (he reminds him of James).
Harry may also in time finally appreciate that Snape Did alert the Order when Harry tried to warn him about 'Snuffles' as soon as possible, deduced that Harry went into the forest as a way of escaping Umbridge and launch a mission to save Sirius, as well as giving Umbridge fake Veritaserum.

Dumbledore states: (when trying to console Harry at the end of the order of the Phoenix) 'I thought Professor Snape could overcome his feelings about your father- I was wrong,'

maybe now Professor Snape and Harry can finally burry the proverbial Hatchet and release that they are fighting on the same side.

You never know they may even grow to like each other and Severus may even pass on his extensive knowledge on Defence against the Dark Arts to Harry to help him in his quest to become an Auror!

It had come to my attention, that there are enough thread around here to discuss about Snape from his greasy hair () to his dark mysterious behaviour. So, I thought it would be easier for us to keep on track if we stick to the discussion as mentioned in the first post.

I've changed the title to a more accurate one to avoid us loosing track and keeping us more on topic. I changed it based it on the first post made by 'Mimola Chuck'.

Soo.... did Snape really had switched side?

I thought it kinda odd when Lucius knew that he didn't showed up in the graveyard scene at the end of GoF but still on good term with Snape in OotP.... I think there's more to it than Snape being a double agent for the Order because logically, I don't think Snape is able to go back into the circle stealing information when he had openly refused to return on LV's order...

But then, I'm also relunctant to believe that Snape is still a DE... and that DD had made a mistake for trusting him... any thought?

is this what you are asking? yes the death eaters would know now that snape was good and is helping the order, but right now we have no clue to what he is doing to help the order maybe he is a death eater again but is getting information for our side. does this clear things up?

I can't figure out what side Snape is on. But i also believe that he has one of the MOST valid excuses of all the Death Eaters. Namely, that he couldn't leave Hogwarts after two students have just vanished.

I think that there is no hard evidence that he was spying on the Death Eaters other than Dumbledore saying so in court, and Dumbledore has been fooled before. In the books we've seen the marauders learn to become animagi without him realizing it, he was unable to figure out the chamber of Secrets dillema on his own (that it was Ginny, not get into the chamber), and he's hired TWO death eaters and one pomous, incompetent jerk (Lockhart). He also doesn't seem to know all of Harry's dangerous actions. And he is/was not aware of Dobby's actions second year (tampered bludger).

Those reasons above make it very plausible, IMHO, that Dumbledore could be getting duped by Snape, a master Occlumens.

Unlike Karkaroff, Snape never presented hard evidence (i.e. names and testimony) to the Wizengamot. All we have is Dumbledore's assurance, which is "between Professor Snape and myself" (Dumbledore GoF).

Either way, Snape could easily present it to Voldemort that he was and has been spying ON Dumbledore.

Snape is really one of the only characters that confuse me the most....I actually think that he's on DD's, and that he is still a D.E., but when he went to DD, he remaind a D.E. so that he could some way of knowing what voldemort or the other D.Es were up to....I read somewhere that in book six, we will find out why DD trust Snape even though he is or was a D.E., Snape, i think, he is just a spy for DD...

something about snape has always bothered me, shouldn't voldermort know that snape well betrayed him?...i mean he was in back of Quirrells head the whole time Harry was in his first year right? so wouldn't voldemort know that snape tried to stop quirrell from getting pasted fluffy and getting the stone...and also at the end when quirrell says that snape tried to save him, voldemort should have wondered y snape did that.

"I think that there is no hard evidence that he was spying on the Death Eaters other than Dumbledore saying so in court, and Dumbledore has been fooled before. In the books we've seen the marauders learn to become animagi without him realizing it, he was unable to figure out the chamber of Secrets dillema on his own (that it was Ginny, not get into the chamber), and he's hired TWO death eaters and one pomous, incompetent jerk (Lockhart)."

Don't be too sure about any of those things. DD seems pretty on the ball, but allows the course of events to pass. DD most likely knew about the animagi, but let it pass. When he hired Quirrell and mad eye, they were not deatheaters -- they became so after the hiring. Most of these other mentioned events were more for plot, not DD's failures. DD is not omniscient, but when he makes a statement, you can take it for fact.

Whenever DD makes a statement, then it seems to be true. DD stood by Hagrid & he stood by Lupin when all others were questioning them. He also stands by Mundungus because of his good traits, not because he is a perfect person.

Just like Mundungus, Snape has received DD's blessing that he is converted. DD doesn't mince words on this, he says it clearly. Snape's biggest downfall (besides being a "greasy git") is that he hates the marauders. They did try to kill him after all. He has definitely transferred some of this hatred onto Harry.

These 'bad' traits does not mean that he is still a D.E. -- it only means that he is a complex character.

I think that Snape is on DD's side and is spying for him. First of all, in fake Moody's enemy glass thing Snape, McGonnagal and Dumbledore could all see themselves in it. That's a lot of proof right there. Also, Snape has saved Harry a lot of times already, i mean if he was a DE he could have just been like "Avada Kadavra" then he'd be done with it! Also, you may ask, "Why wasn't Snape there fighting against the DE's at the end of OoTP?" Well, that's because he still had to be undercover and if Voldemort or the Death Eaters saw him there then he wouldn't be able to go undercover anymore. Also, in the 4th book, Snape sort of seems ashamed to have the Dark Mark on his arm. I really believe that Snape is on DD's side. well, i guess that i've rambled on long enough! Talk to yall later!

I also believe that Snape is really on Dumbledore's side. But I thought Voldemort has already found out that Snape betrayed him - he didn't show up in the graveyard the evening of Voldemort's return and everything...

when Snape turned spy for the Order, he had to get Voldemort to believe that he was indeed on his side, therefore Voldemort had probably asked him to spy on the Order. does that make sense? so which side is he on? who is he spying on or is he straying backwards and forwards so that he wont be punished by either side?

i personally think that he is on Dumbleore's sde, as much as i hate to admit it. and i also think that he will be at the final battle between Harry and Voldemort as Harry's protector or something.

Yeah, and I also think he will be killed in the end.

Ok, lets review here. A spy is supposed to pretend to be on one side, while actually giving information to the otherside. What would the point of being a spy be, if you told the side you were spying on? Because thats the only way that I can see the other Death Eaters resenting him. The reason Snape is so successful is that the DE's don't know that he switched.
My theory is that Voldemort sent Snape to Hogwarts to spy on Dumbledore, and then Dumbledore switched Snape to spy for him. So it's perfectly normal for him to be in contact with Order people, because everyone on Voldemorts side believes he's spying for them. And on the other end of the spectrum, it's perfectly normal for him to be in contact with Death Eaters consistantly, because the Order believes he's spying for them. And his relationship with Lucius Malfoy, you have to remember that Dumbledore didn't really believe that Voldemort was dead, and believed that he would one day return, so Snape was probably on orders to remain friendly with the man who seems to be second in command, or at least very, very high up. Lucius Malfoy.

As for who's side Snape is on, I believe that he is on his own side. He's playing both sides of the fence, and expertly at that. He is the sole link between the two warring factions, and has been for probably 17-18 years. He's gotten good at it. He lets each side know what he wants them to know. He's not telling Dumbledore everything, nor is he telling Voldemort everything. He's making sure that he is indespensible to both sides, so that no matter what the outcome, he's on the winning side. Very much like Peter Pettigrew attempted, but better executed.

Snape was probably one of those Regulus Black's, of whom I sure there were many. Who got in early with Voldemort, and then found out what he was capable of. I think that Voldemort was running a very Naziesque operation until he heard the first half of the infamous Prophecy, and then turned it up a notch. Snape bit at the opportunity to become a spy and stay out of the nastier aspects of Voldemorts new campaign, and either found an easy way out through playing the double agent or was found out by Dumbledore and turned coat. Either way, he's not loyal to anyone but Number One.

Its too easy for Snape to be a death eater, its probably going to be a lot more complex than him just chosing a side. I think he might fight as a death eater but may die trying to ammend... Its usually the way things go!

I don't think Snape has switched sides over to the Death Eaters. I think he's still and forever will be with Dumbledore and his Order of The Phoenix. Now that Voldemort's returned, Snape has to play the spy for Dumbledore and try to get back in with the Death Eater crew.

Dumbledore trusted Snape after he did something of "great personal risk" and ever since then his trust has never wavered. And no matter how many times the readers and Harry suspects that there's foul play on the part of Snape, they're always wrong. Snape hates Harry but that's all (allow the dude this one happiness)... he doesn't want him dead... i don't even believe he'd go so far as to wish Sirius dead either.

Now with Voldemort back, Snape's entered into something again at "great personal risk" for Dumbledore. He's on the good side, no matter how convincing he is in front of the evil people that he's really not. Voldemort will surely make Snape pay for leaving him, yet Snape willingly continues to be in his company to help the Order.

It seems too easy and obvious to think he's an evil Death Eater, really plotting against Harry & Dumbledore. He's far more complicated than that.

Sure, he's pro-Order now, but don't think that he's the type to die a heroic death in the fight against evil. I guarantee that if the Order was defeated, Snape would be sitting pretty in Voldemort's new regime.

Everything we've ever been shown about Snape shows that he looks out for Number One. Thats why he's such a good Occlumens. I doubt that he became a master at Occlumens for the sole purpose of being able to "utter falsehoods" in the Dark Lords presence. He had some sort of natural affinity to it, and Occlumens is the skill of one who always watches their own back and no one elses.

Don't kid youselves. For those of you who've seen Pirates of the Caribbean, Jack Sparrow = Snape. Always making sure he's on the winning team, always keniving(sp) He might end up actually helping the Order win over Voldemort completely, but until his hand is forced or the outcome is clear, Snape is going to keep his options open.

And you can bet your life that Voldemort is definitly an option for Snape.

I think that snape has not switched sides he is to evil and he will be killed if he was court he will not risk his live for anyone.

MOD EDIT: I told you I'd leave you alone if you abide by the rules. Now check rules #7 HERE. I'm sure you know what I mean.

No, voldemort isn't option for Snape anymore.

Now he is very suspicious about Snape and Order is sort of protection for Snape if he will be revealed.

But Death Eaters won't protect Snape if Order will try to "disable" him.

He works for Order for feeble hope that the Order will help after but he can't work for Voldemort after he prevented him coming back in 1st book.

yeah i totally agree with you spot on he will not change sides he has got a lot to lose if he does.

I think that in the next book (book six), Harry will be told (perhaps after Dumbledore dies) that Professor Snape was the spy (as mentioned in book three) that informed Dumbledore about Voldermont going after Harry's parents. We have never learned why Snape was kept at Hogoworts - only that it was between Snape and Dumbledore. This would be a great shock to the readers and Harry and would certainly change the relationship between Harry and Snape.

You've got a point, MimolaChuck. But I think, Severus Snape is on Dumbledore's side. Maybe, Lucius Malfoy doesn't know that Snape had changed side. Perhaps, Snape is playing at he's no longer a DE but will never go to Dumbledore's side. And being Lucius Malfoy's friend, he could feed the Order informations. And for me, Snape is already doing his job, as for Dumbledore's side, in Hogwarts. Why did I say that?

We all know that Snape hates Harry and he's also looking for holes, large enough to criticize Harry, as well as Ron and Hermione. While on the other hand, he's not doing it to Draco Malfoy, the criticizing part, because he's in Slytherin and Snape is the head of the House. My point is, Snape is preventing Draco Malfoy to be good in Potions. Why? Snape is keeping the pressure in Harry's side, and Harry, to avoid criticisms, is doing the best he could though he really hates Potions. Meanwhile, with Draco, he's praising him, whether his work in Potions is good or not. Showing favoritism? Maybe, but just helping out the light side in the future. This shows that Draco might had learned nothing at Potions at all.

Maybe that was out of the topic but it still shows that Snape is in Dumbledore's side.

Aaahh, yet another perolous struggle to find the truth. The battle between good and evil Snape becomes increasingly more complex with the 5th book.
You would think it unlikely that Snape could fool such a wizard so full of wisdom as the great Albus Dumbledore, yet Barty Crouch managed to do so for a number of months.
If he is managing to fool Dumbledore, he is at the same token currently tricking Voldy as well, for in the end of the 4th book he states that in the portion of the circle large enough for 3, one too cowardly to return,one betrayed him and is gone forever, the other will be highly favored and is stationed at Hogwarts. #1 is Karkaroff. #2 could be a mystery and you are sure that 3 is Snape, at hogwarts. But then you find out that Barty Crouch is at hogwarts and is a die-hard death eater. So snape could only fit into catagory #2.
In the fith book we learn of snape's hatred for James Potter, and with good reason. That could be why he dislikes Harry so. I do think he is trying to deep connections open with the death eater society because it could indeed help the order.
It could be an elaborate scheme and he could be keeping Harry alive for a greater more selfish purpose, but I don't think so, I think (and I could be fooled as well) that Snape has trully conformed.

All of us are aware of the fact that Dumbledore is no ordinary wizard...he is entirely deceive-proof!! This means that if he says that he trusts Severus Snape...the entire Wizarding world should trust Snape...i do agree that there's more to Snape than what meets the eye...we'll probably find out more about him in the final books!! But the fact that the headmaster trusts him and he's a rightful member of the order...obvioulsly indicates that Snape has switched sides and is ignoring his deatheater past!!
Snape has to act kindly ...PRETEND to...towards the Malfoy's...otherwise this may interfere with the order's plans...like attracting unnecessary attention!!
Anyways...we're forgetting that Snape may obviously favour Draco to Harry...mainly because of his feud with James and also because od Draco belonging to his house-Slytherin!!