if professor snape is an ex-death-eater, then why is he friends with Lucius?
let's think about it. Snape is death-eater gone good, correct? but, if snape switched sides, other death eaters would resent him, yet lucius malfoy is quite close with snape?
conspiracy? possibly.
what are your thoughts?

I see 2 posibilities! One is that Snape in fact IS still a death eater and that he's just pretending to be on DD's side (which I really wouldn;t like to be true) or it is the other way around- that Snape really "turned" good, but is hiding it somehow from other death-eaters (like Lucius) b/c his role i the next book(s) will be to spy on You-know-who and the rest of them, and give the information to DD and the order(I would like this one better)
And what do all of you think what IS the reason that Snape hates Harry so much? Will we see more of James vs. Snape in 6or7?
Loooney

Mmm....interesting! I've never really thought about it like that before. It does make you wonder, doesn't it? I can't really think of any reasonable explanation for that, unless Snape really is working both sides against the middle, you know? But then Dumbledore, you would have thought, would have worked that out?

I wasn't entirely happy with JKR's explanation about that on the chat she gave in March - 'Suffice it to say that Snape has given Dumbledore his story, and Dumbledore believes him'. It would have to be a pretty good story, wouldn't it?

Personally, I kind of liked the theories posted on the Godric's Hollow thread about Snape being a vampire. I suppose he isn't, there's too much evidence against it, but maybe Snape is far more than he appears to be?

Snape is the Order's spy on the Death Eaters. It's very possible, perhaps, that Malfoy still believes Snape to be a Death Eater. I assumed that the Death Eaters assumed him to be a spy on the other side, like they have in the Ministry. *nods*

yes, i suppose that the only reasonable explaination is that snape is working both sides. but what if voldemort asks him to do something that he clearly cannot? such as harming harry, or anyone in the order, how does he get out of that?

Well, I suppose it would depend on what they asked him to do, whether Dumbledore could help him to make the Death Eaters think he's done what they've asked him to do, whether anyone is likely to get hurt or not and so on.

If they asked him to hurt Harry, he'd probably be neck-deep, 'cos he's have to go through Dumbledore first. If they just asked him to stir things up a bit though, maybe he'd do that.

What exactly did Snape do at the end of GoF anyway? Where did he go? To infiltrate the Death Eaters again maybe? I think they'd be pretty thick to trust him though after he openly gave evidence at Karkaroff's trial.

Don't you just love a mystery-man??!!

haha, of course.
but i hope it all gets explained. because if JK doesnt explain all this in book 6 or 7 it will drive me crazy because i'd never know what snape was up to.

ah, the eternal mystery that is severus...

i think that snape is working for dumbledore, but also making voldemort and the de's think that he is working as a spy for *them*...

if voldemort believed that snape had betrayed him there's no way snape would still be close friends with lucius... though i find it suspicious in ways that they're friends at all in the first place, appearance and standings are very important to the malfoy family. snape doesn't seem to be wealthy, isn't considered particularly attractive by most, and doesn't have a lot of authority at times... not someone i'd expect to be close buddies with malfoy.

but yeah, regardless... i can't see many other ways that would work. so for now at least i'm sticking to that theory.

Well L. Malfoy seems like the type to me that will do whatever it takes to become powerful. He saw in Voldemort away to get more power than he already had and decided to help him out. When Voldemort was defeated, he would have lost all power by claiming to support him, so he said he was under the imperious curse, and was actually a good guy. By being so friendly to Snape, he figures he can keep up the facade, especially if he thought Voldemort wasn't coming back. The only glich to this is Riddle's diary from CoS, but I'm not sure what to think of that.

hm. you're right that lucius is the type who will do anything to become powerful... and to get what he wants. though i still think it's quite odd that he's friends with snape, just cause he doesn't really seem his type... other than the slytherin/voldemort connection..

has it ever been said whether snape is a pure blood or not?
becuase for someone like lucius, being a pure blood could over-rule being unattractive and unwealthy.

no, it's never been said for certain that snape is a pure-blood wizard. there's a lot of speculation on that both ways really, but i don't think he is really. though i could obviously be wrong...

i guess we'll find out soon enough more about snapes family and background... but that info couldn't come soon enough.

do all death-eaters have to be pure blood? i know that voldy isnt, but maybe his death-eaters have to be. so if snape was/is a death-eater, that could pretty much answer the question that he is in fact a pure blood.

I don't think Malfoy would like snape just because he is a pureblood-look at how he feels about the weasleys.

well yes, that is true, lucius does hate the weasly's.
i guess the only answer is that snape is working both sides.

I sure hope that snape isn't double crossing the Order. I would hate it if he turned out to be bad all along.

yea, and dumbledore trusts him.
dumbledore is right a lot, but he made a mistake with "moody."
so what if he shouldnt be trusting snape?
but then we think of when umbridge asked snape to give her veritaserum so she could get stuff out of potter and snape gave her fake potion.
he is truely the internation man of mystery.

Sort of like the James Bond of the magic world

Ooh, yeah....'The name's Snape...Severus Snape'...LOL...

Random thought though....just curious...

But what do you reckon would be so revealing about Snape's boggart and Patronus?

Do you think that maybe his boggart would be James? **shrugs**

As for the Patronus....I don't know....it's got to be an animal of some sort, right? Something from his childhood maybe...like a dog that he had as a pet? Or..LOL...a nice fluffy rabbit . It's got to be something that's very telling about him for JKR to be so secretive...what do you think?

we are fairly sure that Snape is folowing the DE's in pretense that he is still one. Its fairly obvisious that he is passing on info to Voldemort but what it is we dotn no. and he is skilled in Occlemency so that means he can lie all he wants to Voldemort. We never give it thought and it is possible, doesnt seem all that likly and then it does. We do not no if Snape was in that circle that night Voldemort returned. We assume that he is the one that Voldy says "this one i believe has left me 4ever". But it is possible, sometimes likly, sometimes not, that Snape was in that cirlce. Snape would have to give a very good excuse to get away though if he were not in that circle, cause Voldemort does not forgive

Snape wasn't in that circle the night that Voldemort returned. Voldy was speaking about him in absentia. Yes, Snape is the 'one who left me forever..he will be killed, of course' (oh no! Poor Snape! Which means that he can't possibly become a spy again, so what exactly has he been doing for the Order?)..and Karkarof (sp?) was the one who was too cowardly to return.

What if Voldemort was Snape's boggart then? Would Harry be his Patronus? **giggles like a kid at the thought** .....

harry as snapes partonus?
very vivid imagination.
i think his patronus will be something like a hippogriff or someting. because they get offended easily and are short tempered and has respect for those that treat them nicely.
that is a bit like snape.
as for his boggart, i think it will be something shocking...like dumbledore...or it could be voldemort...or maybe snapes mom or dad.

I wouldn't be suprised to see that his boggart is his dad, he seemed extremely frightened of him and it seems like his fathers treatment of him has left him permantly scared.

Ooh, yeah, that was a good one. I never thought about his dad...and it certainly would give a lot away about his character, wouldn't it? Maybe JKR does intend to give a bit more about information about him in the next book which is why she introduced the idea that maybe Snape was bullied by his dad in OoTP. Poor Snape!! More layers than an onion!!!

You know the bit in OoTP where one of Snape's memories sees him shooting flies from the ceiling in the dark...I wondered, how come he could see them? Does that mean he can see in the dark? If so, how? Is it possible that he's an unregistered animagus as well, an animal that can see in the dark? I know it's been done already with the Marauders, but that didn't stop JKR using it again for Rita Skeeter, did it? And things always come in threes, right? And he did know more about the dark arts before he came to Hogwarts than anyone else, so he's clearly a gifted wizard....

Probably not, but it was just an idea....I'm just wondering why JKR would have introduced the whole thing of Snape's background if she didn't intend to explore it and make it relevant to the overall story.....

That would be especially interesting if the boggart turned into Dumbledore. Or maybe his fear his of himself actually in a murderous rage of some kind (creative, eh?).

Like their at Grimmauld Place and someone sends Snape up to deal with a boggart, and Harry accidentally (sp?) enters the room like in the fifth book and sees what it is! Oooh!

Mysterious man... very mysterious... intriguing even... hmmm...

I suppose Snapes boggart could be his Dad. I wouldn't be suprised, I mean, if it was in his pensieve, it was in there for a reason right?

If it's not his dad, it's probably voldemort or dumbledore. I mean, Dumbledore IS the man Voldemort feared most...

Oh, I'd laugh so hard if the boggart was Harry or James...

As for his patronus...*shrugs* I'm not sure, I agree though that it might be a hippogriff. *Snickers* Which would look pretty funny, really.

You know, that's a pretty good idea...and it would give a lot away about Snape.

There have been fearless muggers and rapists and murderers and stuff out there who won't crack no matter how much pressure is put on them and the only one they're afraid of is their Dad (sometimes Mum)...LOL.....

Big Snape man...afraid of his own Daddy.... ...

I reckon Snape's boggart is either Voldemort or one of his parents.
His Patronus? hmmm - Harry's was his fathers transformation ~ which has some significance ~ but Hermione's was an otter? I wonder how that was significant? I would love to know what DD's was? Does anyone know Lupins? Perhaps Snapes patronus is Harry because Snape wants Voldemort killed because Voldemort wants Snape killed?

I think I have consumed a Babbling Beverage! To much talking and serious thought! aaargh!!

Snape is me fave character . He's just so interesting (not to mention entertaining).

Anyway, I believe his boggart will be a vision of his own death, at the hands of Voldemort. Or maybe his death at the hands of Dumbledore, if he is caught spying for the 'dark lord'.

His Patronus is beyond me. Possibly a large snake, that would show significance as a link to Voldemort. I don't think there's really been enough evidence so far as to hint towards his patronus.

Babbling beverage!!! So that's what's been in my coffee all this time!!!

I think they're both good ideas Kreacher and Rankin....

There seems to be loads of good ideas for what Snape's boggart might be, but his Patronus is a bit of a toughy to imagine... I think that says a lot in itself, you know. I think Rankin is right...perhaps there's not really enough evidence. We don't know enough about him yet to understand what animal might protect him...

The snake is a good idea though...maybe that could point to a reason why Snape turned to the dark arts in the first place. If Snape did have a tough childhood, and he did have some problem with his father (like most baddies in books..either the mother or the father) which led him to seek out Voldmort's power to get revenge for himself, then Voldemort's pet snake would be an ideal Patronus for him, wouldn't it? It would symbolise his turning to the dark arts in order to protect himself....

Do you know what I'm on about or have I had too much of that darn Babbling Beverage again?.....

It's more my belief that he turned to the dark arts out of a prejudice against muggles and mudbloods (you can tell this from the way he talked to Lily in the scene Harry saw in pensieve), and Voldemort and his Death Eaters shared his views. Very KKK, these Death Eaters. Anyway, I think he turned coat after he saw that mudbloods were just everyone else, begging for their life and the life of their children etc., and saw that Voldemort's work was wrong. This is a theory. If he still hated muggle-borns so much, I don't think Dumbledore would trust him enough to work with them in Hogwarts.

I think that with Sirius gone *sob* that Harry and Snape may be a lttle closer? You'll think I'm crazy and thats how we find out? Or even that why would Snapes Boggart and patronus reveal. Unless there is a LOT more to Snape than we realise?

Babbling Beverage!

Oh, I'm sure there is...(But I've had a little chuckle over on the HBP thread over Harry and Snape....sorry, Kreacher, mate...I just can't see it meself... )

Rankin - I'm not too sure about that prejudice business, you know... As far as I know, that pensieve thing was the only time Snape has ever referred to Mudbloods (and I don't think he's ever mentioned Muggles in a derogatory way, has he? **shrugs**...if he has, I'd appreciate it if someone could post the quote, 'cos I may have to hand in my resignation from SOS)

In that sense, I think Snape was just lashing out at Lily because he was hurt and humiliated and he wanted to hit out in the nastiest possible way he could at both her and James - 'cos he knew James wouldn't like him calling his eye-candy a Mudblood.

I still think there are deeper reasons why Snape would have turned to the Dark Arts, something in his dim and distant past...

Hey, here's a thought....Snape didn't attend the Yule Ball, did he? Practically everyone else had partners - but he didn't. He was on patrol duty outside, breaking up the couples who were hiding in the bushes. Seems a pretty bitter, nasty job to volunteer for on a Christmas time. What if the memories Snape has of that time of year are painful? Maybe because his wife or children were killed by Voldemort? I know that's not exactly a new theory, but it's the first time I've seen something in the actual text that made me think that perhaps that's a possibility why he would have turned back to Dumbledore....

Maybe...

Why does he have to be so grumpy all the time? I guess he could have had his wife ect killed by Voldy. But (I'm so sorry to say) I can't really see him with anyone. He seems so negative. Maybe if he washed his hair...took a bath...got some happy pills (just kidding)...then he could have a date.

Happy Pills? He could stir himself up some happy potion. "Spore of mushroom, bud of weed and essence of murtlap."

Anyway, the prejudice theory is just a guess. It's mostly likely that he turned to dark arts because of his upbringing. Most of the pureblood families turn out dark wizards (just look at the Blacks), and he was a Slytherin.

I think it's possible that Snape's bogart could be Harry, James, or even Lily... I think that it would be far too obvious for his bogart to be Dumbledore or Voldemort, that wouldn't really be much fun now would it?

Anything's possible really, hell, his bogart COULD potentially be a bunny lol. A cute, fluffy bunny. You never know... but I think Harry, James, Sirius or Lily are the best bets.

Who knows? Quick let me make this a post!

i think snape is still buddy buddy with lucious because i don't think the deatheaters know he's gone good. because he'd prolly be shunned if lucious knew! but then again he could have just pretended to switch sides! Snape is a very confusing character! And he can go in so many directions (good bad both?) i hope he's expained in the final books!

My theory on Severus Snape, is that he is an ex death eater, posing as a spy for the order. I believe that he is still going to Voldemort, and doing what he has to.
I also think there is something to do with Legilmens and Occulmency, when it comes to the passing of information.
It seems odd that DD knows it LV knows it and SS knows it.
Snape had an unhappy childhood, and I think that's what led him to joining the DE. I think that Snape was striving for equality and acceptance and he found that at LV side.
I'm still unsure as to why he returned to DD.
I've heard rumours that in HBP we find out more about the complex character that is Snape, also that HBP is a continuation of COS.

I really hope we do find out a bit more about Snape's motivations in the next two books. I'm pretty sure that he has very good reasons for being the way he is...personally, I think it's got something to do with his family being attacked by Voldemort in the past - after all, it would have to be a pretty strong reason for Dumbledore to trust him so unquestioningly. The idea really bugged me for a while and I had this whole scenario worked out that I used as a basis for the fanfic I strated writing a while ago...I was working on the sympathy angle for him, you know...

I believe he had an unhappy childhood too, stemming mostly from the brief flashes of memory that we saw when he was trying to teach Harry Occlumancy - it seems as though he was very lonely and misunderstood, and as a result retreated into himself which made him very bitter and resentful towards James and the others, whom he was also probably very jealous of. I really feel sorry for him you know, especially after seeing what James and Sirius did to him in 'Snape's Worst Memory'...I've said before in other threads that I really do think that there can be no justification for what they did to him.

Personally, I do believe that Snape is on DD's side and is using his friendship with Lucius to manipulate and spy within the Death Eaters and that's what his role in the Order is, but I'm open to some other possibilities.

But in the fourth book it said something like this:
----------
"Severus," said Dumbeldore, turning to Sanpe,"you know what I must ask of you to do. If you are ready...if you are prepared..."

"I am," said Snape.

He looked slightly paler than usual, and his cold, black eyes glittered strangely.
-----------
Actually it's a direct quote from the book but anyway it sounds has if Snape would be spying on Voldemort and giving info to the Order.

I really do have to agree with you Dana. Also with the quote Raska, just posted. I do believe at that time that Snape had to go back to the DE's as it was not too long after the mark burnt again.

It's so much fun talking about Prof. Snape. Such a complex character. This could be long...

First thing, I think Snape's boggart is his father. It's been documented several times before that abuse in the home, leads to a violent, anti-social lifestyle. Even neglect falls into this case. For example, the kids at Columbine, lived in a family that had no care whatsoever for the kids and let them do what they wanted. Abusive parent's make more abusive parents and I kind of think this is manifested in Snape's teaching method.

It could be James since he was the lead character in Snape's "Worst Memory," mind you it had nothing to do with his family; and this was supposed to be his "worst memory." Fear leads to hatred as a wise Yoda once said.

On top of this, I'm part of the boat that thinks that Snape is a half-blood. His ambition and his choice to be in slytherin (since he was ambition was to rise above his father and the abusive household that he lived in) --not to mention that you could ask the sorting hat to put you in a house; Harry did this in the first book. I think, Severus grew and nurtured a hatred for Muggles because of either how weak they are (should it be the mother) or how awful they can be (if it's the father). He like Tom grew to resent the Muggles and all that they were because of his limited experience with them. He saw himself as better than that and when Lucious saw this boy who had an incredible gift for the dark arts and being an oppratunist he sized it and "overlooked" his shortcommings because it meant more power. By this time he could already be working for Voldemort. He used Snape, made if feel like Snape had friends...finally people he could call family. Much like the way Harry could finally call Ron and Hermione his "family."

But, they used him and eventually Voldermort saw Snape and had him become a death eater seeing a lot of the same angst and qualities Voldermort himself had when he called himself Tom M. Riddle. Snape snatched the chance, weaither he knew or not that he would die even if he refused that remains to be seen.

This somewhat goes into the psychosis of Voldermort a little bit. Bellatrix does not know that Voldermort is a half-blood. Her reaction when Harry says this at the end of OotP should make that evident. Voldermort could have some of the most gifted and well-established wizards eating out of his hands and he told them anything they wanted to hear. Voldermort hates Muggles like I think Snape hated Muggles and just went along with their little prue-blood prejudice that they have and magnified it. Voldermort, as a result, doesn't tell them more than they need to know. He knows who's missing from the DE circle but not all the DEs know each other most do however. Although, they could have a set place to stand in the circle... But, I have a suspecion they dont know that Snape has gone.

Anyway, Snape sees just how cruel they became he probably participated in a lot of it, until one day (cicumstances unknown) it hits him. He's become his father, in a different way. He is just as bad as the Muggles he hates. He became what he feared the most. Snape, in turn, walks away from it and goes to Dumbledore with his code of honor saying that he has a life boon for the whole wizarding community before he could be repented. Dumbledore welcomes him in.

There are two sides to every coin. Dumbledore probably knew what was happening in Slytherin house. But they probably didn't do any of the DE stuff until holidays and the like so... And snape was in it probably for only a short time 17/18-20/21 years old. 2-3 years. Dumbledore saw a trump card when it landed in his lap, and decided that Snape being good would have to keep quiet. He was made head of Slytherin house somethng that I'm sure the- oblvious- death eaters were quite happy with.

They probably thought that Snape would be able to lead the little slytherin girls and boys to the Dark Side. This was what Dumbledore wanted; it gave Snape a cover and gave him a story. Voldermort might not have been mentioning snape when he mentioned who was missing from the circle. Since the Occlumancy that Snape possessed convinced Voldermort of Snape's "intentions." Therefore, Snape could play Lucious finally while Lucious thinks it's the other way around. Snape was always most likely the better wizard. And Snape could let Draco and the rest of the slytherins take it easy in Potions when in actuality he teaches them nothing and they know nothing. The Gryffindors on the other hand have learned something from Snape's unorthodox teaching style in the hopes of not being ridiculed so they actually do learn something.

Snape is not leading the Slytherins toward the Dark Side, he's giving them every disadvantage possible so that they aren't as powerful when the final showdown happens and war breaks out.

Anyway, about Snape's Patronus this could be tricky because you have to look deep to find what quality he likes the most. So I went Here
it's a page full with animal symbolism. My possiblities:

• Bee
• Birds/Blackbird (or a mythical JK Bird like the Hippogriff)
• Butterfly
• Crow
• Dragon
• Hare
• Snake (this I think would be it) (especially in the Chinese Zodiac)

Anyway, that's what I think about it...

Reviewing thoughts after reading much argument…

Personally (as much as I hate to think) I believe Severus is working both sides of the fence.
Look at Malfoy, he denied following Voldemort, so why not Snape?

As for Snape’s boggart, I believe that it could be Harry humiliating him as James previously did.

I think that his patronus though would be a serpent. I know that sounds rather cliché, however, it would be similar to Snape’s character. They both tend to be silent and sneak up on people also, (giant groaning cliché) the symbol of Slytherin is a serpent and Snape is head of Slytherin.
Another argument is that in the duelling club, Snape did not recoil from the Serpent that Draco set on Harry.

I do not think he serves two masters, as Dumbledore said abut Kreacher in the fifth tome. I am very fond of Prof.Snape, and I trust him more than you might think. I am not sure why. My reasons can be rather complex and I shall not name them all here.

The thing is, I am more than sure he simply found a way, together with Dumbledore, to conceal the fact he is not serving Voldemort anymore. This is why Lucius is still friendly with him, and he gives him a more powerful impression about this by the way he treats Harry.

Hey I'm new in this forums and stuff anywho I'm a big fan of Harry Potter and I read every book like 5 times. Snape can be friends with Lucius Malfoy so that he doesn't give away that he's a spy because you read in the fifth book that he talks with Voldemort and how he would tell Voldemort about Snape and even if Voldemort wanted Snape to do something bad to harry because then he'll know that Dumbledore would KILL HIM.


Gryffindor

Hey there, this is only my second post here ever, even though I'm a huge Hp fan. I think I've read every book at least a hundred times!

I have to admit, wven though Snape is evil, i still like him as a villain.

It seems like he's a little misunderstood, and the wayhe's horrible toeveryone is his meansof getting back a t the world. Remember how in OoTP Harry has occlumency lessons with Snape, and one time he manages to break into his thoughts? And how Harry sees a little boy crouching in a corner while a man yells at a woman? Yeah, well that could possibly mean Snape didn't have a happy upbringing, and so he is bitter.

hullo i am new & all & severus snape is my favorite hp character! & i know its late and all but "happy b-day severus!" according to snitchsneeker.com jkr posted on her official site that his b-day was on the 9th of january

Well hello to the newbies and welcome to the forums!! And to the particular little Snape clique that we have going here.....

I would point you in the direction of the 'Severely Slytherin Society', but I think you've already found it....

I hope dear Severus had a nice birthday and spent it in a better way than he usually does....drinking too much Firewhisky, spitting sparks at the house elves and then falling off the astronomy tower into the lake.....

He's a wild one when he's had a few, you know....