How cum Harry didnt use a time-turner to revive dumbledore and make sure that dumbledore didnt drink the potion to make him ill??? its not a good question but hey it could of worked???

Because you can't use a time turner to undo death. It's sort of a round about answer but- if Harry would have used a time turner to save DD then DD wouldn't have died in the first place, and if DD wouldn't have died then Harry wouldn't have had the idea to use a TT to save him. Rowling has explained it better then i just did, haha. But yea...short answer is you cant use a TT to undo death.

Because you just can't undo death. ^^ But if you mean for Dumbledore NOT to drink that...or something of that sort, I wonder why too. Because that a TT CAN do. ;D But I'm guessing that it was only a one time book topic like most of this other stuff.

Wait I completly agree with the whole "you cant undo death thing with the timeturner"

..... but.... then...... How did Harry and Hermionie save Buckbeak in PoA? (Sirrius was alive, didnt need saving... yet) .....

WAIT! that means that Buckbeack actually never did die!!! WE JUST SOLVED LIKE A CHICKEN AND THE EGG THEORY ON ACCIDENT!!! holy crap! haha that has seriously been bothering me forever. Finaly! we know! Buckbeack never died!

I'm sorry this really doesnt have too much to do with this discusion, I'll stop >.<

cheese puff?

I dunno if we can undo death but I suppose that we can't because if we could everyone would use a TT in any accidental death.

El cheeser puff -- yes, it's right in the chicken-and-egg category, it's a cause-and-effect problem you encounter whenever you try to understand time travel.
There are some good Star Trek episodes that deal with time travel, particularly Voyager's "Year of Hell" which shows quite effectively how undoing something can have far reaching unwanted consequences, or TNG's "Yesterday's Enterprise". The best SF story I ever read about time travel is Isaac Asimov's "The End of Eternity".

In the HP series, it seems that time travel is allowable as long as history isn't changed. The travel itself and its consequences have to be part of history already in other words, a perennial paradox. The trio never saw the execution of Buckbeak, all they saw was the executioner using the axe, they heard Hagrid's cry but didn't hear the words. They just thought that Buckbeak had been killed. Hagrid, Fudge, Macnair and Dumbledore must have seen that Buckbeak had disappeared.
In order for this version of history to be possible, Dumbledore must have had extraordinary foresight, almost as if he himself is standing above Time, as if he is an agent of Fate. I wouldn't put it past him.
It would also explain why he allowed Hermione to have a Time-Turner at all -- not just so that she would be able to follow all the subjects taught at the school. There might have been other ways to let her take the subjects ... or else the other students that had more than ten OWLs -- Percy, Tom Riddle -- would have had to use Time-Turners as well.

I am going to agree with Bumblebee, I think the time turner would be devasting, because Harry would have seen himself, and would have had to been seen by DD, and Harry was with DD almost all day that day. I also agree that saving a life who had died in the past would cause a devastating ripple. Like Bumblebee said, Buckbeak never died and neither did sirius, so the time turner did no damage.

THe only dispute is that they didn't see buckbeak becasue their future selves intervened and Sirius didn't die at the lake becasue Harry's future self intervened. YOu might say that hte time turner prevented the deaths in the first place. THis is the complicated part isn't it.

Try to figure this out---> The present witnessed no deaths because the future changed their past to prevent it is the first place. I don't think it would work because the present saw the death, therefore there was no indication that the future intervened to change the past, therefore DD was meant to die in that way. Whether he is dead or not may be the question. If no future came back, then perhaps the present situation wasn't so devastating as everyone thought.

I don't think that JK will or should write in Harry using a time turner because then the question about why the death eaters didn;t use one to save Voldermort at Godric's hollow would come up. I would get to complicated and she would have to explain to much in one remaining book.

Dumbledore was getting older. We saw that in HBP. If Harry had saved Him Dumbledore would have died anyway. I think that He wanted Snape to kill Him so Harry could do nothing if He tried with the timeturner. I think that time-turners are annoying as you can't change huge things like death or accidentaly opening the sands of time like the Prince of Persia did. The whole point of going back in time is to change things. I don't pretend to know about time-travel but i did turn an oven into a time machine. It is simple

Dumbledore has mentioned that using a Time Turner is very dangerous and can drive someone mad... Besides we don't know if Hermione still owns her Time Turner...

But we do know ... Hermione said that she had given the Time Turner back, because she didn't want another year with a crazy timetable again, and she had figured that having stopped Divination and if she dropped Muggle Studies she could fit all her lessons in a normal timetable.

It is completely true that time turners create time loops, as noticed in the third book, or should I say movie. When Harry and Hermione returned from saving the day, they witnessed themselves leaving, therefore proving that the time loop never ends- as the Harry and Hermione witnessed leaving would perform the same deeds that the witnesses just accomplished and so forth.

Takes Breath

So, because Harry and Hermione were very careful not to disturb their past selves, the time loop continued on and didn't disturb anyone, however, if Harry had saved DD, it would have disturbed the original Harry, as DD would no longer be dead and there would be no further need to go back in time, therefore causing huge repecussions for Harry, as the original one would never have gone back in time, therefore leaving two of them, or killing both as there is no future if the past is changed to such an extent.

Well, that's my two cents (actually, try $1)

Jay934 I thought the same thing, I thouthg that may be will be a solution, but NO! The only one that they (Hermione, Ron and Harry) Hermione guive it back. Hermione tell Harry and Ron that he wants a normal schedule. And Professor McGonagall will notice that!

Who knows...some argue as to how did Harry get saved the first time when he was at the lake with Sirius. I bet that he saved himself the first time...

u can make it undo death he saved buckbeak from being killed didnt he so he saved a life there so he could of turned bk time but then he didnt have a time turner on him did he

What? El Cheeser Puff. We always knew Buckbeak never died?!
But i understand cuz somethings i think i dont know something but its so obvious! Nice one.
Any way. I agree that he wouldn't be able to save DD by turning back time. Any Harry probably didnt have a time turner on him. but then how would the time turner know that Harry was turning back time to save DD?

Well for one he can't use a time turner because they were all destroyed at the Department of Mysteries and you cannot undo death, sure he'd go back but DD wouldn't be there and another, he needed to drink the potion... I guess.

Yes all of the time turners were destroyed at the D.O.M in OOtp so therefore there were none for Harry to get his hands on. Anyway if Harry had, had a time turner, who knows what would have transpired had he altered the events somehow. DD had to drink that potion that much we know, b/c he and Harry were on the hun t for the Horcruxes. But if Harry had used a time turner to prevent DD from being killed he would have also have altered other events surrounding that one. He could have caused the deaths of all of his friends and many others at Hogwarts if he had messed with time. No the events played out the way that they did because everything happens for a reason and thats what we must accept.

If you want a good Star Trek episode about time travel, there's always Visionary from the 3rd season of Deep Space Nine. It's great. "I hate time travel." Oh, and of course, do't forget the Gilliam film 12 Monkeys. If you've seen it, you know why I'm bringing it up. If you don't, then rent it. It rocks.

On topic, remember that not all time turners have been destroyed (nessesarily). It says all ministry time turners have been. There still may be some around on the black market. But still, I don't think that this would work anyway, unless dumbledore never really died. (oops. didn't mean to open that can of worms.)

-Fish

-fish

The one thing that has always bothered me about time travel is the whole loop thing, as we see in POA. That, and all other loops, will continue forever, literally. So, if there was a world ending tragedy, like if the sun were to implode/explode and the world would end, the loop would still continue because in their reality time hasn't been allowed to progress that far yet. Which means that somewhere, some time, Dumbledore isn't dead, yet. but he will be. Oh this just hurts my head. Are these loops then a part of an alternate reality and if so, couldn't things end up differently (thinking of the Gunslinger series). The original timeline continues to play out when the loop forms in POA so that that reality is set, to a point. I mean someone could always just use another Time Turner later on to alter things. But once that original timeline is set, couldn't the following loops change a bit without affecting that original timeline? Or does the original timeline only exist because of the time loop? I ask these questions because I think it directly relates to whether a Time Turner could have been used to save Dumbledore.
If Harry had used a Time Turner to stop Dumbledores death, then no, he would never have had the idea to use one because there's no need. Thus the Loop is broken, and Dumbledore is still alive. The big problem now is that there are two Harrys. The one who knows Dumbledore originally died and stopped it and the Harry that has no idea Dumbledore was dead in another timeline. So what happens to them? That's the real question, isn't it?

jay934, for one, it's because Dumbledore did die. If Harry used a time turner, then Dumbledore wouldn't have died in the first place. Time turning is painful on the brain, so i won't dive into it compleatly, but think about this:

InPoA, First time round, harry, Ron and Hermione thought they heard buckbeak be killed. I mean, they didn't actualy see it, did they? They heard the swish and a thud of an axe. On the second time round, Harry and Hermione stoll Buckbeak and MacNair swung the axe into the fence in anger. That was what Harry, Ron and Hermione heard on the first time round.

So really, Buckbeak never died in the first place.

So of course this wouldn't have worked, because Harry saw Dumbledore being hit with Avada kedavra. If Harry was going to use a time turner to save Dumbledore, then he wouldn't have actualy seen him die, he would have assumed he died.

Ah-brain hurts. Going to stop now.

Time travel is complicated and dificult to grasp really. As shown in the moive "Back to the Future". Using a time turner to save Dumbledore wouldn't have been possible. Time turners can't reverse death.

P.S. Auror14, wow, that was confusing! I defiently get what you said though, anything to do with time travel makes my head hurt!

because it wodnt work and didnt u read it say that they were all smashed in the fight at the ministry in HPATOOTP

You cant use a time turner to undo death. You just cant do it. Which is sad

I have scanned all of these postings and have not seen someone bring up my topic, on the subject of time turners. First of all, I agree with the noted premise that the time turners that were destroyed were the ministry's time turners, but that does not mean that someone else doesn't have one, or could not make one.

Now to my point. Everyone is focusing on how Harry could have used a time turner to go back and save his parents or Dumbledore. But how about turning the time turner in the opposite direction? Presumably it should be possible to see the future. Wouldn't it be incredibly useful, for example, to get a sneak peak at his final battle with LV?

Interesting sbk, it doesn't say time 'back' turners. Although there has never been a refrence to going forward in time, but, bad things happen to wizards who mess with time harry. I disagree with a former post of you can't prevent murder by going back, Buckbeak lives. There could be time turners out there, but we still don't know how far (in either direction) you can go, Hermione only went for an hour or two.

I don’t mean to be annoying but I really want to post:
1. All the ministry’s time-turners were destroyed
2. You CAN change death as jamdan said with Buckbeak. Perhaps only with animals it works?

Sullivanbkeene- that’s interesting about going into the future. Hmmmm I never thought of that


I don’t mean to be annoying but I really want to post:
1. All the ministry’s time-turners were destroyed
2. You CAN change death as jamdan said with Buckbeak. Perhaps only with animals it works?

Sullivanbkeene- that’s interesting about going into the future. Hmmmm I never thought of that

But you see, the problem is, Buckbeak never died in the first place. The executioner never got a chance to murder him. Buckbeak was always alive. Harry and Hermione saved him before they got a chance to kill him. You can not change death just by changing time. Once someone is gone, you can not get them back.

Using a time turner would not work. There is no possible way to reverse death. Once you've passed on, your gone. Anyway - Harry could not save Dumbledore by time travel because how would he save him without being seen?


A problem arises here because time tuners do not work that way. They take you into the past, not the future. You can not go into the future because the events have not taken place yet, nothing is for sure. The future you can change, the past you can not.

What do you mean Buckbeak never died in the first place? I remember at the end of the chapter hermione says something like “ I don’t believe it but they did it!” So in this case Harry and Hermione went back in time and saved Buckbeak because in the past he was still alive.

No, I don't think Buckbeak did ever get executed. They showed it really well in the movie. I wish I could go to the book, for I am almost positive that there is something in there, but unfortunatly our copy of PoA decided to go into hiding. If I find something when it chooses to come out, I'll let you know. I'll look for it tonight.

You cannot reverse death. With time travel or not, once your gone, there's no coming back.

I’m positive Buckbeak (Witherwings haha) was executed and I’ve got good ole Rowling’s writing beside me as for it’s not in hiding at the moment so I can help

Haha, well aren't you lucky your book isn't scared of you!



Ahh, but you see, that doesn't necessarily mean that they executed Buckbeak... If I may, I'll try and interpret JKR words and my thoughts. I always thought that the jumble of indistinct male voices was Fudge, Dumbledore, Hagrid, and the Executioner talking about where Buckbeak had gone when they came out of the cabin and he was not there. In frustration of not getting his reward, the executioner threw his awe into the ground... I believe if you go to the time turner chapter, you'll see that Harry and Hermione saved Buckbeak before they had a chance to behead him... Anyway, that's how I always thought it was.

hmm i'm going to go off the buckbeak conversation and go back with why harry didn't use a time turner.

He didn't use one because they were all destroyed at the ministry (they were smashed) so unless they made more it's very unlikely for this to happen.
And it's the same reason why harry didn't use one to bring Sirius back either, they were destroyed. as simple as that.

Harry could not use a time turner because they were all destroyed at the Ministry of magic, in the Department of Mysteries. And if he did use on he would not be able to stop death.

Ya Hilly, Buckbeak never died in the first place. When you think about it, they didn't actualy see Buckbeak die, did they? All they heard was



That was actualy the Excicutioner swinging into the fence in anger at Buckbeak going missing. Because harry and Hermione went back in time and rescued Buckbeak. They could do it because no one saw them do it.

Harry, Ron and Hermione just assumed that Buckbeak died because that's what they heard. They didn't see him die at all, because he didn't die. It was like-a echo of Harry and Hermione 2 was there the entire first time round. If that makes sense

(Which probably doesn't)

Anywho, back to the Dumbledore thing, the reason Harry didn't use a timeturner is because Harry saw Dumbledore die. There are no "But's" or questions about it-Snape stepped up, said Avada Kedavra and Dumbledore got hit by it and died. And Harry saw the whole thing.

Therefore, going back in time wouldn't do anything, because Harry would have to reverse what's already happened (Which is impossible)

I hope that makes sense. (It probably doesn't) *runs off to get a panadol to cure thumping headache from talking about time travel*

Well, I think the reason Harry didn't use a Time-turner was , quite simply, he didn't have one. Hermione gave hers back to McGonagall or something. . . I think. Well, anyway, she didn't have it, and he couldn't have ordered one because they smashed then all when they were in the Ministry in OotP, remember? And anyway, even if Harry DID use a Time-Turner, what could he have done? Snape probably would have killed him, then stepped over the body to Dumbledore! And then it all would have been even worse than it already was. If that was even possible. . . Which I don't think it could have. . .

simple reason...all the time turners got destroyed in hbp during the battle at the miistry. there were no time turners left that harry couldve even thought about using to bring dumbledore back.

Well Harry couldn't have used a time-turner as they were all destroyed when they were in the department of Mysteries. And apparently you can't undo death.

yeah, you can't undo death.

and weren't all the time turners destroyed in OOTP??

Yes. As told in HBP, all Time Turners were destroyed in OOTP when the trio were in the Ministry.

No, not all the time turners were destroyed, just the ones at the Ministry. Who's to say that there aren't any time turners some place else in the world? Or someone else might have at least one?

But that wouldn't matter since Harry wouldn't have had access to them anyway...

the whole minisrty stock of time turners were disrtoyed. besides, he saw DD die. It wouldn't work.

Harry could not use a time turner because they where all destroyed in the Ministry of Magic in Ootp when they went to fight Voldemort.

Hi im just replying to the title so if someones already told you im sorry. close to the end of HPOOP someone (i dont know wich side they where on) smashed all of the tt so no one could havce used the tt afterwards

ahhh...well, when I read the book; i though that as well...but then I figured...even if harry could have used a timeturner...he didn't have one at the present moment, nor could he have summoned one...

well, in PoA...the trio saw buckbeak die, didn't they...so why wouldn't it work?

I really think that people are thinking too much about this, if you just calmed down and thought about it you would remember that all fo the time-turners were smashed in the fifth book so even if it had occured to Harry he couldn't have used one anyway.

Uhhhh...DUH remember in book 5? They were all deystroyed by HP and the gang !!

^Totally agree. It would be fat too complicates. Besides, didn't he just smash and ruin all the time turners in the Department of Mysteries?

You don't actually go back in time to alter the course of history. I think this is explained i PoA quite well, even if she [Rowling] doesn't spell it out. If Harry and Hermione didn't use the time turner, Sirius and Buckbeak would still be alive....wouldn't they? What if Harry and Hermione did something different? Would something else have changed? The answer is NO. No matter what they did, the outcome would have been the same. But if they would've untied Buckbeak and the MoM saw him...? I don't know, I'm confusing myself .

Because you cant defy death and in OOTP when they where in the Department Of Mysteries they broke them and Hermione returned hers. You cantmess with death and if he did go back and he saw himself he could have jinxed hiself or gotten himself killed.

maybe he couldnt afford one?
maybe he didnt think, i mean who does when they've just seen someone die or somthing

and also they were all broken in OoTP