Full Version: Lily/Snape
No, I don't mean all 3 at once. But I was thinking maybe Snape and Remus might have had some feelings for Lily. Maybe the reason Snape was so jealous of James was because he had Lily. And maybe that was the reason he became a spy for the order, to get aproval for Lily. Perhaps that was the reason Sirius and James didnt like Snape because they knew he was after Lily. Remus telling Harry how much he cared for Lily in the 3rd movie also leads me to wonder how he felt about her. Yeah, maybe I just read too much fan fic, but let me know what you think.
I always figured that Remus liked Lily... I mean, the two were prefects together (I assume this by the fact that Lily was head girl/probobly a prefect and that Lupin was a prefect)... Lily was a very wonderful person anyway... The two probobly got to know eachother fairly well. Remus, however, being the decent and wonderful person he is, wouldn't bother mentioning this to his best friends, one of whom was madly in love with her...
As for Snape, I figured he might have had some sort of defiant feelings towards Lily, which might have been something that pressured him into using the horrid 'm-word'... I really have no reasoning for this idea, though, other than the rather humorous piece of artwork by Nasubionna I've seen...
As for Snape, I figured he might have had some sort of defiant feelings towards Lily, which might have been something that pressured him into using the horrid 'm-word'... I really have no reasoning for this idea, though, other than the rather humorous piece of artwork by Nasubionna I've seen...
I always figured Snape had feelings for Lily, even if he was pretty horrible to her in that memory. I mean, he's always using James to make Harry feel bad, but he doesn't mention his mom much...i don't know I'm bad at context clues 
I figured that Snape fancied Lily a little, and that Lily fancied Remus a little. I guess Lupin liked someone, but didn't date or reveal his feelings.
I love Lupin. XD
I love Lupin. XD
Yeah, I can totally see Snape crushing on Lily. Wasn't she even in Slytherin, too? I'll have to re-read the fifth Harry Potter book to double check. Plus, Lily stuck up for Snape when James and Sirius made fun of him. And yes, as someone else had mentioned, Lupin did talk to Harry about Lily. I can see a connection between them as well. 
~kel~
~kel~
Lily in Slytherin!? Certainly not! The fact that she's muggleborn pretty much rules that option out. She stood up for Snape because she's a genuinely good person, I'd say. I'd do it too, even if the person was cruel to me afterwords or before.
That's the one thing I truly believe in in the HP verse. Er two things I guess. That both Snape and Lupin loved Lily... and possibly that she either loved or had feelings for them back. Here I thought I was the only one 
Oh, I'm sure she did (Lupin, that is...not Snape!!), even if it wasn't in quite the same way as she loved James...
What's not to love about Lupin?! He's adorable!!! So what if he turns into a mad, raging animal once a month? I reckon most women out there could probably identify with that... At least Lupin would understand.... 
What's not to love about Lupin?! He's adorable!!! So what if he turns into a mad, raging animal once a month? I reckon most women out there could probably identify with that...
At least Lupin would understand....
| QUOTE |
| What's not to love about Lupin?! He's adorable!!! So what if he turns into a mad, raging animal once a month? I reckon most women out there could probably identify with that... At least Lupin would understand.... |
LOL, good point. But yeah... I'm a firm believer of something between all three of them, once again, I don't mean at the same time lol (even I find that kind of gross).
I have my reasons for believing in both those relationships, but I don't think I'd be able to get into them right now if I wanted to. lol. too much strain on my brain. Maybe will post them later or tomorrow (er if I remember or am alive tomorrow, might die of exhaustion or something).
lmao, Dana_Scully, how woman can relate to changing into a monster once a month. But I do agree, Snape never talks about Lily to Harry, just how much of a jerk James used to be.
Okay, Bella, you've read my fanfic on Lupin, so you know I think that he probably had some feelings for her.
I never thought about Snape though. I had never realized that when he messed with Harry that it was always James he talked bad about and not really Lily. That's pretty cool. Makes me think that maybe he did like her. But I'm not sure.
But I don't think she had feelings for either of them. She loved James. But then again she might have, you never know. I can't say anything for sure.
I never thought about Snape though. I had never realized that when he messed with Harry that it was always James he talked bad about and not really Lily. That's pretty cool. Makes me think that maybe he did like her. But I'm not sure.
But I don't think she had feelings for either of them. She loved James. But then again she might have, you never know. I can't say anything for sure.
I think you might be right about the feelings. In the 3rd movie they played Lupin up to seem to like Lily.(the whole bridge scene) and idk i just think that snape always had a thing for her! I don't know if it developed into more than a school crush but personelly i don't htink it did.
I still say that Snape joined the Order in order to impress Lily. I really think that if Lupin had feelings for Lily, he would have kept them to himself because he would have seen how happy she was with James.
I think that Snape did maybe like Lily or...James (okay, that's the fanfic talking) and he's always hated that James got Lily and that's part of the reason that he hates Harry so much. I guess.
Lupin if he did like Lily which I'm not sure if he did or not at the moment, would have definitely not said anything about it since he knew how James felt about her. So he stepped back in the shadows and James got the girl. But that's only if he liked her, though the movie does make it seem that way....eh who knows.
Lupin if he did like Lily which I'm not sure if he did or not at the moment, would have definitely not said anything about it since he knew how James felt about her. So he stepped back in the shadows and James got the girl. But that's only if he liked her, though the movie does make it seem that way....eh who knows.
Aww, poor Lupin, never gets what he wants. He couldnt have Lily, had to step bacl and watch her be in love with his best friend.
As the ships threads have been revised lately, this topic should now stick to Lily/Snape - there is a separate thread for discussions about Lily/Remus now.
Thanks.
Thanks.
Well, Yeah, maybe Remus liked Lily...
I think that they would be a good couple...
I think!
*Vanessa*
I think that they would be a good couple...
I think!
*Vanessa*
Umm this thread is for discussing the Lily/SNAPE ship, Vanessa. If you'd like to discuss the Lily/Remus ship, click here.
I'm not so sure abou this, I stand firm that lily was not that type of person. She despised Snape at school and only stood up for him beacuse she detested the fact that James thought he could curse whoever he wanted, just beacuse he could which is clearly stated in the OOTP in the chapter 'Snapes worst memory'. I don't think Lily ever had an affair with snape beacuse he hated people with muggle paraentage. Lily also tells snape to wash his underwear in the same chapter I mentioned above which is a sign, to me, that a realationship might not have been possible.
Lily, once again, only post if you're a supporter of the ship. Please check the Ships rules pinned to this section. Thanks.
snape wanted lily. but couldn't have her for different reasons. the biggest being that she was muggle born. and lily acted the same way towards james as hermione does ron. so she most likely didn't hate james and was only telling him to stop bulling snape because it was her responsiblity as a prefect. sorry if any of this was off the subject.
MOD EDIT : So in saying all that, are you a Lily/Snape shipper then? Just checking because if you're not, you are not allowed to post here. All ships threads unless clearly stated otherwise are for supporters only.
MOD EDIT : So in saying all that, are you a Lily/Snape shipper then? Just checking because if you're not, you are not allowed to post here. All ships threads unless clearly stated otherwise are for supporters only.
After Book 6, anyone want to revive this...?
Dumbledore (sniff) has always told Harry that it is love that is going to win this war. He almost tells Harry why he trusts Snape before they go to the cave and get the locket. I think that Snape had feelings for Lily. Slughorn kept going on about Lily's potions abilities. Maybe they were in the same class? Maybe Snape began to like her despite himself? Maybe come to terms with the fact that he too was half blooded (enough to write it in the textbook)? When she was killed by Voldemort because of his report of the prophesy, he was devistated! The love he felt for her caused him to join the order. With love as a reason of course Dumbledore would believe him.
And since love is in reality the greatest power of all and will always win out over evil-why didn't Snape stay to the good side. Why did he turn double agent!!
Argh! I don't know. I was worried but still held out hope for Snape after the 2nd Chapter because his hand twitched when Narcissa said that if Draco couldn't fufill the mission that Snape would do it.
Anyone have any comments? This has been bugging me since Sunday night!
Dumbledore (sniff) has always told Harry that it is love that is going to win this war. He almost tells Harry why he trusts Snape before they go to the cave and get the locket. I think that Snape had feelings for Lily. Slughorn kept going on about Lily's potions abilities. Maybe they were in the same class? Maybe Snape began to like her despite himself? Maybe come to terms with the fact that he too was half blooded (enough to write it in the textbook)? When she was killed by Voldemort because of his report of the prophesy, he was devistated! The love he felt for her caused him to join the order. With love as a reason of course Dumbledore would believe him.
And since love is in reality the greatest power of all and will always win out over evil-why didn't Snape stay to the good side. Why did he turn double agent!!
Argh! I don't know. I was worried but still held out hope for Snape after the 2nd Chapter because his hand twitched when Narcissa said that if Draco couldn't fufill the mission that Snape would do it.
Anyone have any comments? This has been bugging me since Sunday night!
For those who don't read alt.fan.harry.potter I found a really interesting, and imo good theory regarding Snape, Lily, and Snapes reason for hating Harry. BZ to "doodles" for the theory!
"I believe JKR put several big clues in book 6 regarding Snape's motivation
for hating Harry, which may reveal the resulting plot resolutions in book 7.
1. Harry's mother is revealed to be an excellent potions maker
2. Snape is revealed to have heard at least part of the prophecy, and then
informed Voldomort about it.
3. Love was a major theme of book 6, and in particular the idea that "you
can't control who you fall in love with"
4. All throughout the series, Snape has made many disparaging remarks about
Harry's father, but not his mother
5. In book 5, Snape becomes unhinged when Harry sees a memory in which Snape
is tormented by Harry's father in front of his mother.
6. JKR was a little heavy-handed with the clues casting Snape in a negative
light, culminating in the death of Dumbledore at Snape's hand.
Conclusion: Snape was in love with Lily when they were at school, beginning
initially with admiration for her skill at Potions. Part of Snape's hatred
of James was the fact that he won the girl of Snape's dreams. When Snape
informed Voldemort of the prophecy he overheard, he realized later that he
caused Lily's death. When he told Dumbledore about his involvement, he also
revealed his feelings for Lily. That's the reason Dumbledore was convinced
he could trust Snape...and it also explains why he never revealed the reason
to anyone else. Snape's only chance of redemption is to save Harry from
Voldemort, which means he killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's own orders, not
Voldemort's.
Snape's hatred of Harry is mixed with his feelings of responsibility toward
Lily. He hates Harry because he represents what he could never have...and
it also explains why he never married. It doesn't help that Harry looks so
much like his father, either. But in the end, Snape has to help Harry
defeat Voldemort. A big part of book 7 has to be bringing Harry around to
the point that he can trust Snape.
Just a theory."
"I believe JKR put several big clues in book 6 regarding Snape's motivation
for hating Harry, which may reveal the resulting plot resolutions in book 7.
1. Harry's mother is revealed to be an excellent potions maker
2. Snape is revealed to have heard at least part of the prophecy, and then
informed Voldomort about it.
3. Love was a major theme of book 6, and in particular the idea that "you
can't control who you fall in love with"
4. All throughout the series, Snape has made many disparaging remarks about
Harry's father, but not his mother
5. In book 5, Snape becomes unhinged when Harry sees a memory in which Snape
is tormented by Harry's father in front of his mother.
6. JKR was a little heavy-handed with the clues casting Snape in a negative
light, culminating in the death of Dumbledore at Snape's hand.
Conclusion: Snape was in love with Lily when they were at school, beginning
initially with admiration for her skill at Potions. Part of Snape's hatred
of James was the fact that he won the girl of Snape's dreams. When Snape
informed Voldemort of the prophecy he overheard, he realized later that he
caused Lily's death. When he told Dumbledore about his involvement, he also
revealed his feelings for Lily. That's the reason Dumbledore was convinced
he could trust Snape...and it also explains why he never revealed the reason
to anyone else. Snape's only chance of redemption is to save Harry from
Voldemort, which means he killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's own orders, not
Voldemort's.
Snape's hatred of Harry is mixed with his feelings of responsibility toward
Lily. He hates Harry because he represents what he could never have...and
it also explains why he never married. It doesn't help that Harry looks so
much like his father, either. But in the end, Snape has to help Harry
defeat Voldemort. A big part of book 7 has to be bringing Harry around to
the point that he can trust Snape.
Just a theory."
WOW...absolutely superb...a big thumbs up to you...i couldn't couldn't have put it better myself!! There's a high probability of this being true!!!
True, true, but he also referred to her as a mudblood.
But of course, he could of just been saving face in front of people and there is no way he'd want his Slytherin mates knowing he fancied a muggle born!
But of course, he could of just been saving face in front of people and there is no way he'd want his Slytherin mates knowing he fancied a muggle born!
I won't close this thread down because that was a very good post, but it is in the wrong place, I'm afraid. I'll merge this topic with the Snape/Lily thread in the SHIPS forum and you can carry on over there.
i think snape had feelings for lily even though he used the m-word because how would u feel if u were being humiliated in from of the whole school then have the person u have feelings for be the only one standing up for u, or he just didnt want to show that he liked her cause james would further ruin his life or if james found out and he would probably exploit it to the whole school further humiliating snape
Wow!
Thanks for the long email on the theory! I've always had a love/hate relationship with Snape. I wanted to believe that somewhere beneath that vile exterior is a resonable person. I also don't want to accept Dumbledore's humble ending (or to think that D was wrong in trusting Snape). Snape helped save Dumbledore in the beginning of the book when he sustained the injury from ring horcrux. He could have killed him then. If Dumbledore ordered Snape to kill him--and he was pleading-- then it makes it easier to take. Still- that nasty scene on the lawn as Snape was trying to get to the gates and apparate... not settling.
I agree that the m-blood name calling thing was trying to save face. Also, like Lupin and Sirius told Harry, sometimes you are an idiot at 15. The same could go for Snape. The NEWT potions class would be the next year to that scene.
Maybe Snape joined up with the Death Eaters when Lily married James? As an amputation of that hope?
I can't believe that I am already on the edge of my seat for book 7!
Thanks for the long email on the theory! I've always had a love/hate relationship with Snape. I wanted to believe that somewhere beneath that vile exterior is a resonable person. I also don't want to accept Dumbledore's humble ending (or to think that D was wrong in trusting Snape). Snape helped save Dumbledore in the beginning of the book when he sustained the injury from ring horcrux. He could have killed him then. If Dumbledore ordered Snape to kill him--and he was pleading-- then it makes it easier to take. Still- that nasty scene on the lawn as Snape was trying to get to the gates and apparate... not settling.
I agree that the m-blood name calling thing was trying to save face. Also, like Lupin and Sirius told Harry, sometimes you are an idiot at 15. The same could go for Snape. The NEWT potions class would be the next year to that scene.
Maybe Snape joined up with the Death Eaters when Lily married James? As an amputation of that hope?
I can't believe that I am already on the edge of my seat for book 7!
I think this ship could happen. Why not? It does seem like a good twist and it would explain a lot.
And Hermione said that the writing in th potions book (spoiler) of the HBP's looked feminine. What if Lily wrote it? Just a possibility.
And Hermione said that the writing in th potions book (spoiler) of the HBP's looked feminine. What if Lily wrote it? Just a possibility.
Thanks raydurz for retelling the theory... it's really interesting and fits perfectly with many of the clues, and just like gavsmum I have a love/hate relationship with Snape who is a very ambiguous and intriguing character (one of the best characters of the series I think!). I think this story is pretty plausible and I just wanted to add one more thing between points 1 & 2 that might support it: Snape was very lonely and Lily was probably one of the rare students that showed him something else than hatred or mockery or sheer indifference, Lily was very kind and just in all circumstances which explains why she behaved with Snape differently than others did, and Snape was probably not indifferent to that. Also, JKR said in the interview by MuggleNet & TLC that Snape had been loved (which makes him very different from Voldemort), but maybe it was by his mom or some other character we haven't thought of I dunno. I think that if there were feelings between Snape and Lily it was one way, I can hardly see why Lily would have loved Snape but who knows, you never can tell...
But there is one thing that's probably wrong about the theory and I'm sorry to say it (believe me I am!!): JKR made it clear in the interview that Dumbledore had misjudged Snape (check the intw out if you haven't already, great analysis she gives of DD in there) so the end of the theory doesn't seem to really fit in fact (or maybe it's true and JKR is trying to hide the plot, dunno). However I remain a firm believer of Snap's feelings for Lily; we've also seen in book 6 that he is capable of compassion to the point of risking his life (which is quite a extraordinary thing coming from a Death eater) when he makes the unbreakable vow, so I am not yet entirely convinced by the evilness of Snape and on the contrary, convinced that he can feel compassion... and love!
Lily/Snape shippers go go go!!!
But there is one thing that's probably wrong about the theory and I'm sorry to say it (believe me I am!!): JKR made it clear in the interview that Dumbledore had misjudged Snape (check the intw out if you haven't already, great analysis she gives of DD in there) so the end of the theory doesn't seem to really fit in fact (or maybe it's true and JKR is trying to hide the plot, dunno). However I remain a firm believer of Snap's feelings for Lily; we've also seen in book 6 that he is capable of compassion to the point of risking his life (which is quite a extraordinary thing coming from a Death eater) when he makes the unbreakable vow, so I am not yet entirely convinced by the evilness of Snape and on the contrary, convinced that he can feel compassion... and love!
Lily/Snape shippers go go go!!!
This post below was made by PotterEnthusiast in a thread that had been closed. Please refer to them in replying. Thanks.
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Okay, this is a bit out there, but JK has used anagrams before (Lord Voldemort) and if the letters are rearranged in Severus Snape's name they form Pursues Evans or Perseus Evans.
One thing we know for certain are that Lily and Snape were both gifted at potions. And throughout Harry's years in Potions Snape criticizes him from being mediocre, perhaps because he is not living up to Lily's reputation.
We also know from the Occulemency lessons and Snape's comments to Harry that he hated James and his friends. However, in the flashback we also see that Lily is the one that helps Snape and he calls her a mudblood. However, after this vision he is especially infuriated with Harry because he saw a glimpse into the past where he appeared weak and vulnerable.
This is why I think Snape liked/loved Lily:
They both were talented in Potions, Lily at that time hated James, she didn't particularly retaliate at Snape for calling her a mudblood. I think that they tried to cover up their feelings for oneanother because of house politics and their differences in family bloodlines. Lily was the only person who was kind to Snape.
Snape never attacks Lily's mom in front of Harry, but makes it a point to criticize James.
I'm not sure about this, but I think Lily and James were married in a Muggle church, perhaps to keep certain wizarding objections out of the mix.
Unrequited love would explain Snape's darkness, solitary nature and hatred towards Harry.
Also if Snape was aware of the prophecy and he still loved Lily, as a Death Eater he may have revealed it to Voldemort to have James killed to have Lily for himself.
Another thing that makes me question Lily's role with the characters from the dark side. Is the scene where Lord Voldemort tries to kill Harry.
If Lord Voldemort had killed 1000s of people why did he tell Lily to get out of the way? He could have easily killed her instantly because she was a mudblood and he was the most powerful dark wizard of the day.
Thus, Lily's death and Snape's failed plot to win her back. Put an enormous burden of guilt on his conscience. Snape has been looking out for Harry's safety since book 1.
This would also explain why Dumbledore unquestionably trusted Snape. The whole theme of the power of love overcoming evil would tie in nicely.
Also I think there might be some kind of blood relation between Voldemort and Snape because they have similar personalities and Bellatrix said that Snape was his favorite, even though he seemed to be the one least dedicated to Voldemort's rise to power and even helped thwart it.
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Okay, this is a bit out there, but JK has used anagrams before (Lord Voldemort) and if the letters are rearranged in Severus Snape's name they form Pursues Evans or Perseus Evans.
One thing we know for certain are that Lily and Snape were both gifted at potions. And throughout Harry's years in Potions Snape criticizes him from being mediocre, perhaps because he is not living up to Lily's reputation.
We also know from the Occulemency lessons and Snape's comments to Harry that he hated James and his friends. However, in the flashback we also see that Lily is the one that helps Snape and he calls her a mudblood. However, after this vision he is especially infuriated with Harry because he saw a glimpse into the past where he appeared weak and vulnerable.
This is why I think Snape liked/loved Lily:
They both were talented in Potions, Lily at that time hated James, she didn't particularly retaliate at Snape for calling her a mudblood. I think that they tried to cover up their feelings for oneanother because of house politics and their differences in family bloodlines. Lily was the only person who was kind to Snape.
Snape never attacks Lily's mom in front of Harry, but makes it a point to criticize James.
I'm not sure about this, but I think Lily and James were married in a Muggle church, perhaps to keep certain wizarding objections out of the mix.
Unrequited love would explain Snape's darkness, solitary nature and hatred towards Harry.
Also if Snape was aware of the prophecy and he still loved Lily, as a Death Eater he may have revealed it to Voldemort to have James killed to have Lily for himself.
Another thing that makes me question Lily's role with the characters from the dark side. Is the scene where Lord Voldemort tries to kill Harry.
If Lord Voldemort had killed 1000s of people why did he tell Lily to get out of the way? He could have easily killed her instantly because she was a mudblood and he was the most powerful dark wizard of the day.
Thus, Lily's death and Snape's failed plot to win her back. Put an enormous burden of guilt on his conscience. Snape has been looking out for Harry's safety since book 1.
This would also explain why Dumbledore unquestionably trusted Snape. The whole theme of the power of love overcoming evil would tie in nicely.
Also I think there might be some kind of blood relation between Voldemort and Snape because they have similar personalities and Bellatrix said that Snape was his favorite, even though he seemed to be the one least dedicated to Voldemort's rise to power and even helped thwart it.
That is a very good theory. I have been wondering myself though if Lily didnt love Snape back for at least a bit? Its just that if your theories right then that would be a long time to hold a school crush. Also could it be possible that they met in the slug club? We know that Lily was in that group but what about Snape? It would have been the only place that they could have actually get to know each other any better with out drawing suspisions towards them.
| QUOTE (raydurz @ Jul 20 2005, 08:15 AM) |
| 1. Harry's mother is revealed to be an excellent potions maker 2. Snape is revealed to have heard at least part of the prophecy, and then informed Voldomort about it. 3. Love was a major theme of book 6, and in particular the idea that "you can't control who you fall in love with" 4. All throughout the series, Snape has made many disparaging remarks about Harry's father, but not his mother 5. In book 5, Snape becomes unhinged when Harry sees a memory in which Snape is tormented by Harry's father in front of his mother. 6. JKR was a little heavy-handed with the clues casting Snape in a negative light, culminating in the death of Dumbledore at Snape's hand. Conclusion: Snape was in love with Lily when they were at school, beginning initially with admiration for her skill at Potions. Part of Snape's hatred of James was the fact that he won the girl of Snape's dreams. When Snape informed Voldemort of the prophecy he overheard, he realized later that he caused Lily's death. When he told Dumbledore about his involvement, he also revealed his feelings for Lily. That's the reason Dumbledore was convinced he could trust Snape...and it also explains why he never revealed the reason to anyone else. Snape's only chance of redemption is to save Harry from Voldemort, which means he killed Dumbledore on Dumbledore's own orders, not Voldemort's. Snape's hatred of Harry is mixed with his feelings of responsibility toward Lily. He hates Harry because he represents what he could never have...and it also explains why he never married. It doesn't help that Harry looks so much like his father, either. But in the end, Snape has to help Harry defeat Voldemort. A big part of book 7 has to be bringing Harry around to the point that he can trust Snape. |
How so very eloquently put! I, too, tend to think that there is were definitely feelings between Snape and Lilly, Snape loving Lilly for a host of reasons, and Lilly feeling sorry for Snape being so mecilessly bullied by James and the Lads.
It will be extremely interesting to see how these musings fare once the last book is out!
Cheers!
yeah, i think that Snape did like Lily a little bit. Maybe snape takes care of Harry za bit, like look over for him, because he thinks of Lily. 
Wow, Excellent theories. "But the fleas...", good point. Thanks for comiserating.
I doubt that there was any overt, public relationship between the two because Lupin didn't mention anything when Harry told the hospital room at large that Snape killed DD. He was incredulous when Harry gave DD's reason (gave partial prophesy to Voldy) for trusting Snape. I think that if Lupin knew of a relationship between Lily and Snape he would have said something when Harry said that Snape didn't give a *hoot* for his mother either.
But, they could have had a friendship. Or one of those harmless mutual crushes that people have and do nothing about. Or Lily could have been friends, lab partners, etc with Snape but he had deeper feelings for her and loved her from afar. I agree that Lily was a kind and generous person. She, over anyone, would give Snape a second chance and be his friend. Lupin (or was it Sirius) that said that James continued to attack Snape but not when Lily was around (OotP).
Which begs the question--if we are correct in that Lily and Snape had some sort of friendship (or friendship+) and Snape is still a double agent, protecting Harry, working for good---who is going to tell Harry that his mother and Snape had a relationship? It would have to be Snape because no one else knows...
Can't wait for that conversation.
I doubt that there was any overt, public relationship between the two because Lupin didn't mention anything when Harry told the hospital room at large that Snape killed DD. He was incredulous when Harry gave DD's reason (gave partial prophesy to Voldy) for trusting Snape. I think that if Lupin knew of a relationship between Lily and Snape he would have said something when Harry said that Snape didn't give a *hoot* for his mother either.
But, they could have had a friendship. Or one of those harmless mutual crushes that people have and do nothing about. Or Lily could have been friends, lab partners, etc with Snape but he had deeper feelings for her and loved her from afar. I agree that Lily was a kind and generous person. She, over anyone, would give Snape a second chance and be his friend. Lupin (or was it Sirius) that said that James continued to attack Snape but not when Lily was around (OotP).
Which begs the question--if we are correct in that Lily and Snape had some sort of friendship (or friendship+) and Snape is still a double agent, protecting Harry, working for good---who is going to tell Harry that his mother and Snape had a relationship? It would have to be Snape because no one else knows...
Can't wait for that conversation.
I also think that Snape could've been in love with Lily, especially after reading book 6. I think that Snape fell in love with Lily in Potions class, because they're both good at potions. If this is true, I wonder who knows it (except Snape) maybe Remus knows it, but he didn't want to tell it to Harry
look bellatrix
Snape became a spy in the order under voldemort's orders he explains that in chapter 2 of HBP and anyway he called her a mudblood how could he love her and also snape was a slytherin and lily was a gryffindor and when snape applied to be a death eater he had to let out all his secrets else voldemort would torture him so he couldn't love her
Snape became a spy in the order under voldemort's orders he explains that in chapter 2 of HBP and anyway he called her a mudblood how could he love her and also snape was a slytherin and lily was a gryffindor and when snape applied to be a death eater he had to let out all his secrets else voldemort would torture him so he couldn't love her
| QUOTE (Reducto @ Aug 9 2005, 12:21 PM) |
| Snape became a spy in the order under voldemort's orders he explains that in chapter 2 of HBP and anyway he called her a mudblood how could he love her and also snape was a slytherin and lily was a gryffindor and when snape applied to be a death eater he had to let out all his secrets else voldemort would torture him so he couldn't love her |
I'm gonna try and answer this post point by point.
First, Snape explains he spyed for Voldemort in the Order... so what? he told that to Mrs Malfoy and Bellatrix, what did you expect him to say? who says he wasn't in fact spying ON Voldemort ON BEHALF of the Order??
Second, saying "mudblood" to Lily doesn't mean he felt nothing for her: it could have been a defense mechanism, or the need for him to show he wasn't "fraternizing" with a muggle-born who's also a Gryffindor whereas he's in Slytherin and into the Dark Arts... you know, saving appearances?
Third, how on earth would the fact that Lily was from Gryffindor and Snape from Slytherin could have prevented him from liking (or more) Lily? If you mean it's because he couldn't have afforded to have others know about it then I say that it could have been kept secret.
But if you mean by that that no feelings between them could have existed because they were too different because they were in such opposite houses (one in the "good" house and one in the "bad" house)... then I also have something to say... As you probably have noticed, everything is far from being black or white in the HP series: nobody's all good or bad, even if there is a pretty clear line between "good" and "evil", characters are not all good or all bad and for some we're not even sure on what side we can put them (e.g. Snape: are you sure he's on Voldemort's side? very ambiguous character! and Draco: the "bad" guy who's proud to become a Death Eater but who's incapable of committing a crime)...even more simply: Ron, that "everyday buddy" but also very loyal friend who can be so unkind, or Sirius who's on the good side and so close to all these "hero characters" (Harry, James, Lily, Remus) but who was pretty mean at school (with Snape for one thing) and who behaves almost as a child and seeks a friend in Harry instead of giving him a parent figure or something close to it anyway... or DD who might have misjudged Snape? who thought DD could be wrong? (well I still believe that he didn't in fact but I'm not sure naturally), or James who was pretty much of an arrogant prat in school whereas he is the Ô So Greatly Gifted James Potter ! This could go on for hours but I think you got the point.
Four, we know that Snape was "an accomplished Occlumens" as Lupin says in HBP so he could have hidden this easily from Voldemort when he joined the Death Eaters (assuming he was already accomplished by the time he joined them).
Therefore I think all you arguments don't necessarily apply, but hey that's only my opinion, no offense or anything!
One thing though: this is supposed to be a supporters only thread so basically you're not supposed to post that in here; actually I don't mind, I think it's more interesting that way cause it fosters debate but you might get a message from one of the mods saying you're not respecting the rules so... just telling you
Another thing I thought of to complete the theory of a lily/Snape ship: what if Lupin did know about Snape's feelings for Lily and, as he had feelings for her too (maybe, could be plausible!), decided to set this trap/joke for Snape that would have actually killed Snape had James not intervened?? It could explain why Lupin set that trap, cause it's so unlike him to do such a thing and he was supposedly the "good boy" in the Marauder's group (remember, he got prefect because he was the wise guy, it says in one of the books). Would confirm the fact that nobody's all black or all white in this series... except maybe Voldemort (???).
Tell me what you guys think about that idea!
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Just wanted to add something (cause I realized what I said wasn't that clear): I don't mean Lupin actually tried to kill Snape, it might have been just some sick joke of which he didn't realize the consequences because he was blinded by (conscious or unconscious?) jealousy. Maybe Remus couldn't "stand" Snape because of this possible affection between Snape & Lily and, in a moment of lack of lucidity, found some way to "express" that/ to take it out on Snape... Weird theory??
I love this ship, i even put it into a part of my fanfic. I think even if Lily never liked Snape, he had a small thing for her.
Also she did stick up for him when James was using Levicorpus. and we all know Snape hates pity... which is why he got so mad when she tried to help him. And snape was only halfblood, which means he wasn't as pure as he portrays himself as.
Anyways... i just love this ship. Who knows if Snape would be different if he had had Lily's love
Also she did stick up for him when James was using Levicorpus. and we all know Snape hates pity... which is why he got so mad when she tried to help him. And snape was only halfblood, which means he wasn't as pure as he portrays himself as.
Anyways... i just love this ship. Who knows if Snape would be different if he had had Lily's love
Everyone who reads my fanfiction knows that I'm very much pro Snape/Lily ship. Why? because it explains everything.
I've always thought that there was something more between them when I read OotP and Snape's Worst Memory. You could feel the triangle between the lines. And my suspitions became even more true when I read HBP and there was a fragment where the Slytherins were talking about pretty girls from other houses (it was about Ginny in particular). Slytherins aren't blind when a girl is pretty, but it's a bit of a shame for them to fall for her.
Then, I think that they were friends - if you go that far, you may assume that they had known each other before Hogwarts (but it may be overanalyzing, though). I believe that he could be in mad love for her and this was what determined his all life. Like a character from Byron works or something.
I think he maybe was in love with her and was hiding his feelings. When he called her a Mudblood- I think that Rowling fools us again as she likes doing- he was hurt, bullied, and a girl came to help him. A Griffindor girl, maybe a friend, but still a girl. James was far more immature at this age for Lily to go out with him.
I believe that what he did hurt her. Maybe it was the end of the ship. Then he became closer to finishing Hogwarts and the future Death Eaters became more interested in him and his knowledge. The iron clad DD had may be Snape's love to Lily: no wonder that he wouldn't like to reveal this to everybody, as Lily was married and so on, and Harry could have a reason to laugh at Snape or something like that. In my opinion Snape doesn't necessarily hate Harry. he hates his father in him, he hates what he could have and doesn't have.
I've always thought that there was something more between them when I read OotP and Snape's Worst Memory. You could feel the triangle between the lines. And my suspitions became even more true when I read HBP and there was a fragment where the Slytherins were talking about pretty girls from other houses (it was about Ginny in particular). Slytherins aren't blind when a girl is pretty, but it's a bit of a shame for them to fall for her.
Then, I think that they were friends - if you go that far, you may assume that they had known each other before Hogwarts (but it may be overanalyzing, though). I believe that he could be in mad love for her and this was what determined his all life. Like a character from Byron works or something.
I think he maybe was in love with her and was hiding his feelings. When he called her a Mudblood- I think that Rowling fools us again as she likes doing- he was hurt, bullied, and a girl came to help him. A Griffindor girl, maybe a friend, but still a girl. James was far more immature at this age for Lily to go out with him.
I believe that what he did hurt her. Maybe it was the end of the ship. Then he became closer to finishing Hogwarts and the future Death Eaters became more interested in him and his knowledge. The iron clad DD had may be Snape's love to Lily: no wonder that he wouldn't like to reveal this to everybody, as Lily was married and so on, and Harry could have a reason to laugh at Snape or something like that. In my opinion Snape doesn't necessarily hate Harry. he hates his father in him, he hates what he could have and doesn't have.
well Snape/Lily is pretty possible i guess but i really don't think Lupin liked lily more than a close friend only because if he did James would hate him as much as Snape.
I'm not sure if Lupin fancied Lily or not, as she seemed so pretty and nice and understanding, but even if he did, he's a kind of a person who's backing off when there's a possibility to build a relationship with a girl. And I suppose it was only friendship from her side.
Snape is different. If he really loved Lily, he could be sometimes passive, sometimes not. It's in his character, this ambiguity.
Snape is different. If he really loved Lily, he could be sometimes passive, sometimes not. It's in his character, this ambiguity.
Hey, I posted his in another thread that got shut down because it cloned this one, so I'll just post my thought here again. I haven't read much of what's in this one yet. So I hope I'm not bringing up old topics.
OLD POST:
OLD POST:
| QUOTE |
| I think it's pretty obvious. (Sorry, Caoo, I haven't read you fanfic, so I don't know if you cover these topics in it or not). #1. In the memory Harry watches where James turns Severus upside down trying to impress Lilly, Lilly begs James to stop. (she just hates seeing people being really really mean to others? Or she cares about Severus?) #2. Lilly Potter, as we recently discovered, had a "talent" at potions. (She actually had natural talent? Or Severus, a true potion's talent, was helping Lilly in potions because they were friends?) #3. Harry also witnessed a memory, Snape's direct memory, where he sees a baby crying on the floor and woman, as someone taunghts her, screaming. (Severus's memory as a child? Or Severus's memory of the Potter's house the night Voldemort arrived to destroy baby Harry?) #4. Snape has EXTRA strong dislike for Harry, I must say, more than he has for the other Gryfindors [besides Hermione of course]. (Severus loathes Harry's house, his fame, and his power over Severus's old leader, Voldemort? Or Severus sees a great amount of James Potter, the man who stole his best friend [or girl friend, I try to think of them as good friends though], Lilly from him?) You decide, but I would guess that back in the day, Severus and Lilly were very very close. |
What I noticed a long time ago and I didn't want to reveal because I didn't want to spoil the fanfiction I'm writing for my readers was the fact that:
1. Snape yells at Harry in "Flight of the Prince" chapter that he invented both Levicorpus and Sectumsempra ("And you dare use my own inventions against me!", he says just after Harry tries to hex him using his two spells).
2. The Half Blood Prince's book is a sixth-year book, not fifth-year.
3. Snape uses Sectumsempra on James in his fifth year and James uses Levicorpus on Snape in the same year.
4.It seems like James learnt this Levicorpus spell in a mysterious way, then. There is no way he learnt it because Snape had told him how to use it. I can't see Snape sharing it with anyone and mind you that he was a loner (in his worst memory he was alone after the DADA exam, nobodyw as asking him about exam questions and Snape was excellent at DADA!). I can't see him sharing his inventions even with his fellow Slytherins. They weren't interested in him at that point (perhaps afterwards, in his sixth or seventh year).
5. There was 1 person who defended Snape: Lily. I believe that they had been friends, due to their talent at potions (the same interests and when you are a teenager, you search for people with the same interests). The Levicorpus spell may have leaked out because of her. Let's say, she left the book somewhere or somebody took it by accident. It could also be Accio spell.
6. When we know that the book was in James's hand before Snape's memory, it puts the Mudblood comment in a bit different light. She defended her friend and maybe he had been angry at her and had quarelled before. perhaps he thought that it was she who taught Potter his hex.
For further details go to my fanfiction "Snively" in this forum, in fanfictions section .
1. Snape yells at Harry in "Flight of the Prince" chapter that he invented both Levicorpus and Sectumsempra ("And you dare use my own inventions against me!", he says just after Harry tries to hex him using his two spells).
2. The Half Blood Prince's book is a sixth-year book, not fifth-year.
3. Snape uses Sectumsempra on James in his fifth year and James uses Levicorpus on Snape in the same year.
4.It seems like James learnt this Levicorpus spell in a mysterious way, then. There is no way he learnt it because Snape had told him how to use it. I can't see Snape sharing it with anyone and mind you that he was a loner (in his worst memory he was alone after the DADA exam, nobodyw as asking him about exam questions and Snape was excellent at DADA!). I can't see him sharing his inventions even with his fellow Slytherins. They weren't interested in him at that point (perhaps afterwards, in his sixth or seventh year).
5. There was 1 person who defended Snape: Lily. I believe that they had been friends, due to their talent at potions (the same interests and when you are a teenager, you search for people with the same interests). The Levicorpus spell may have leaked out because of her. Let's say, she left the book somewhere or somebody took it by accident. It could also be Accio spell.
6. When we know that the book was in James's hand before Snape's memory, it puts the Mudblood comment in a bit different light. She defended her friend and maybe he had been angry at her and had quarelled before. perhaps he thought that it was she who taught Potter his hex.
For further details go to my fanfiction "Snively" in this forum, in fanfictions section
.
That's a very interesting observation. I wonder how James DID learn that.... hmm. Maybe Lilly and James were becoming interested in each other and Lilly decided to help James with potions homework, but happened to use Snape's book instead of her own...
Well, I don't think they were in a relationship, but there was definately something between them. I think it was more Snape had feelings for Lily than anything else.
| QUOTE |
| Snape never attacks Lily's mom in front of Harry, but makes it a point to criticize James. |
I've noticed this. If he really wanted to critisize her, he could've said anything. Maybe she was naive or that she was Muggleborn or something. But it may also be because she never did anything to him. You never know...
Yanno how Snape was really sorry that James and Lily were dead? I think it was more he way sorry for Lily. He hated James, but liked Lily, therefore felt guilty for causing her death.
The fact that he's really sorry has a lot to do with the fact that Snape told Voldemort about the prophecy. AND I think Snape had come to save the potters (or save Lilly while letting James defend Harry himself) the night of the attack. Snape could have planned to kill James this way, asking Voldemort to spare Lilly for him, possibly promising another death eater (Lilly) to Voldemort's side.
Yes, I agree. It could have been Snape's idea to spare Lily's life. I don't see why Snape would show such emotion, but it's possible and even probable. I mean, Voldy didn't say anything to James. He just killed him. But, he was willing to bargain with Lily.
Suspicious? Yes... Coincedence? I think not...
Suspicious? Yes... Coincedence? I think not...
I think Snape secretly harboured an unrequitted love for Lily. They were probably friends from NEWT potion class and she probably liked him as a friend. But he loved her. I think that this is the reason DD trusts Snape, and he can't tell harry because obviously it would be a terrible shock for him. If Snape loves Lily, that explains why he's inclined to be good, and why DD trusts him, as DD is a strong believer in love.
I kind of think that Snape did have feelings for Lily...But I don't nessacerally think that she had feelings for him. She always stood up for him and he made fun of her so I think that she never really liked him like that and maby thought he was cold hearted. But like Ronnil said earlier he always has bad things to say about James but nothing about Lily...not making fun of her parantage or anything. I also think that part of the reason he loathed James was Lily. I mean James was everything Snape wasn't so with Lily that pushed him over the edge. I think he also tried to get Voldy to let Lily live and only kill James because Voldy said "step aside sill girl...you needen't die" so maby this was a small hint of Snapes hidden love for her.
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