Sorry if this has already been mentioned elsewhere - if it has, I've missed them...

I'm just really curious about those tattoos Gary (I'm sure he won't mind me being informal ) had and what they meant. I'm sure there was nothing mentioned about them in the book, so I presume it's a wardrobe thing which JKR must have said was okay.

I know they're rune symbols (some of them, anyway) and the meanings behind them are quite interesting - they're to do with magic, self-awareness and so on, but one I can't find anything on is the bulls-horn thing he had right above his heart.

Does anyone know anything about that symbol and what its significance might have been?

(BTW, its not relevant to the story and probably just goes towards Sirius' character, but I'm really curious - the wardrobe people must have chosen them for a reason).

I think they put those tatoos on Sirius just to make him look rough, because they make his appearance a bit more sinister.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's it...after all, prison 'tatties' are pretty common with people who've been inside. I was just wondering what the particular symbols they chose meant, that's all. One of them is kind of similar to the astrological sign for Neptune, but I have no idea why they would have chosen that particular one over, say, the symbol for Mercury or Pluto. I think I've figured out the one on his right side though - I think it's a representation of the solar system, probably a reference to the 'stellar' nature of his name, I suppose....

It's just me....Got a thing about guys with tattoos.....

You know, maybe I'm hallucinating it but I thought I read an article somewhere that went into detail on this. I think it was with Cuaron rather than Oldman but the significance of the tattoos were elaborated on.

Don't have a clue where I saw it obviously...

Wow, now here's an old topic!! I'd completely forgotten about this! I just had an e-mail alert that it had been responded to and I don't even remember setting a subscription for it!

Anywho...

Thanks for the info...well, sort of info anyway... Well, now that the topic *is* revived, and there are a lot more people here now than there were when I first posted this, maybe someone else will have an idea about them? If not what they are, then maybe where that article might have been...

long time ago, I did a search to come up with the meaning of the symbols, but ended up with almost nothing. When I just did a google search I found This Article, where they discuss the symbols and glyphs that are visible on his body. That might be the article Darth was referring to, because it states that it was Cuaron who came up with the idea of giving Sirius tattoos. But still, the article doesn't give us much information about the meaning of the used symbols.

Well that's certainly a lot more information than I had before anyway, so thanks, Marieke

So it was Cuaron's idea...mmm...and I guess that they had a point, about it adding a modern touch that people could relate to.

Still, it would be really interesting to hear from one of those make-up artists to find out why they chose those particular symbols, if they had any meaning at all, or if they were just random and chosen for effect. I suspect the latter, but it would be really great if it could be the former. There might just be a touch of foreshadowing in there somewhere...

I thought that for such a long time and asked about it on the POA clues thread(sorry, I didn't realise that you had actually asked the question previously *slaps forehead* - sorry)

to be honest I'd hate to think that its another random film-added thing, like so many other things (sorry I am too much of a book over films person)

but someone came up with an interesting anser - that they seemed similar to those on the marauders map,

although I have also read about runic symbols and something about silver -

but I am still not convinced as to any of the answers (I have been searching for ages- and it seems that many others have too,) with very few clues as to their exact meaning, thus it must be either very cryptic or perhaps linked to some sort of magic (or something) that has yet to be revealed in the final book - or perhaps has already been mentions (the map, as aforementioned, or the mirror orsomewhere else (I'm tired so thats all I can think of at the moment ))

I think that there must be some element of foreshadowing because even if they are just there for asthetics, there must be a reason why those particular symbols were chosen, and not only chosen but definately shown on the film, I mean the shirt was open purposefully so that they could be seen, as well as the close up of the hand on Harrys' chest - its not as though we only caught a momentary glance of them, it seems that they were paraded in front of us

Yeah, I lean towards there being some kind of meaning too, Velvet. As you said, they really wanted them seen, didn't they? I don't recall Karkaroff being plastered in tattoos in that scene in GoF...other than the Dark Mark, of course...ooh, now there's a thought...the only people with tattoos so far have been Death Eaters. Wonder what that says about Sirius? Mmm...

I think I did have a look at the runic symbols once, trying to figure out what they might mean. I think one of them, very sadly, was actually death

I'm really intrigued by this, now the topic has had a bit of a resurgence! I think I'm going to have to get me some screencaps first and then do a little digging around. I can't believe that it means nothing.

I dunno, but i heard somewhere the other day (It couldve been this site i dont know) but i heard that JKR said that some of the thigns that were in the third film could foreshadow what happens in the last two books, it might not be true, but where i heard it from definitley said she said it. so maybe the signify what goes on in the 7th book, like, the sign of neptune maybe representing trelawney, and the bulls showing harry or something, ya never know......




Chris

On the second disc of the PoA DVD, Cuaron and JKR give an interview. In the interview she clearly states that she was taken by surprise with the little details Cuaron added that foreshadow events in the last two books. The most obvious is the relationship between Ron and Hermione. However, I have long thought, and still do, that the tattoos, which are not mentioned in the book (But you never read where Sirius has his shirt off, so it is possible) could quite possibly be important to events in Book 7. She has alluded to Sirius reappearing in the last book, we just don't know what form his appearence will take.

I've been trying to find out what the tattoos exactly are, but haven't been able to come up with a clear picture of them. I know I saw an interview where the make-up people were appliying them, but I don't precisely remember what interview. I'm guessing it might be on the second disc of the GoF DVD.

After searching long and hard, I have still not really got anywhere, but I thought that it may be useful to post a link to a decent picture I found of the tattoo that was predominantly shown incase anyone sleuth skills are better than mine :

http://img71.photobucket.com/albums/v215/s...rius_tattoo.jpg

and

http://www.bellaonline.us/~bodyart/movie/azkaban/sirius3.jpg

I actually thought that it may even symolise the dogstar or sirius but it only seems to half-work if you turn it upside down
http://ecuip.lib.uchicago.edu/diglib/scien...om_stars-1b.gif


but I did find something interesting (when following this dog-star' link to tattoos idea) at

1)http://www.crystalinks.com/inundation.html



Isis is a symbol of rebirth so perhaps the tattoos could indeed be linked to rebirth, since a few other websites have also linked isis and sirius (the star that is ), which given the strong link between Isis and rebirth could suggest a further link between sirius and rebith (am I grasping),

So I started looking for Rebirth symbols that could be similar to tattoo, these include
1)Bullhorns (grasping at straws),
2) The ankh (it is sort of similar)
3) The [phoenix (ok this is a bit of a wierd one, but whenever I typed in rebirth symbols as a search the pcitures of phoenix that came up all had their wind out are curved upward like the tattoo) - ok perhaps not for that one

so no real strong links there

However, here is what Wikipedia said about Neptune (thus far the closest we have come to Sirius' Tattoo)




or perhaps the runic symbol of Algiz - which is for protection

see:
http://www.techno-feng-shui.nm.ru/Action/Algiz.gif
for a picture
and
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h...3D%26safe%3Doff
for a proective shield made from it which also has the cross bars of the tattoo

so yeah I'm no further on - sorry, but I am still searching and at least I've managed to get rid off a few ideas that I had which is sort of progress in that I know what it is not

and sorry that this post was full of links and quotes (I'll get rid of them if you want)

Good work there, Velvet! Very good work indeed!

When I first saw the tattoos on Sirius they seemed so familiar. I can't put my finger on it, but I've seen them somewhere before...

Off the top of my head, they look rather similar to crop circles I've seen. Perhaps some sort of caballistic designs?

It'll come back to me...

I know it will...

Found this See the symbol? It's an alchemical symbol of some type. I also looked at a high resolution pic of Sirius and there's actually writing around the design which looks like it's "mirror-flipped", rather like Da Vinci used to keep his journals... The symbol is similar to the alchemical symbol for antimony or white lead. There's this as well, which shows more symbols along the same lines...

Here's an interesting page about alchemy that shows some more symbols that should look familiar...

I knew it'd come back to me...

Thankyou very much (although I'm still no further on from when I started ), Thanks

I know what you mean, its like the tip-of-the-tongue phenomenon, its almost as though we all know what they are but can't quite place it

That is good thinking about the crop circles, I never even considered that, they do look similar. I think that you are onto something

I love the links that you posted - they are so close (I'm going to scrutinize the second one - wow!) - theres one on the first link that is definately similar

*runs off to find out more about alchemy*

I think Gary Oldman just wanted an excuse to show of his body. No, I'm kidding. I actually never really thought of it but yeah I noticed all his insane tatoos in the the trailer for OOTP.

I just remembered that I have a deadline tomorrow, so obviously I was trawling the net for random nonsense When I came across this picture it reminded me of how desperate we all were (well I was anyway) for a larger and clearer picture of the tattoos

http://www.thesnitch.net/galleries/index.p...nd%20Sirius.jpg

Also, all the talk of Alchemy symbolism, reminded me of this theory that was put forward pertaining to the alchemy in harry potter and the different stages (red = Hagrid, White = DD, and well...the Black stage )

It is a really interesting read but this bit particularly caught my eye



also, as aforementioned (although admittedly some time ago, but I loved this thread so I'm giving it mouth to mouth, after all they made them so obvious, he could have covered up but the film makers gave us plenty of opportunity to get a look at them ), the main symbol sort of resembles mercury (or quicksilver) which is, strangely) the planet/metal associated with this stage Black stage

Also, The dog star is also known by seasmen as the Dragons Tail (according to http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:LXhzl...cd=1&gl=uk) and the Black stage has been also named the dragon stage - http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:7gnui...;cd=1&gl=uk

So it would be very interesting to find the symbol, or any alchemy symbols (Mercury?)relating to this stage and see if it corresponds to any of Sirius' tattoos or other alchemy

I'm talking rubbish aren't I , I just so love this topic

I am sure the tattoos are what Gary himself put on and you can't get rid of tattoos but i won't say that Sirius is not the type of person who wouldn't put tattoos in his body

Just wanted to give you some insight for future reference in case you are interested. Gary had stated in several magazine interviews that the tattoos he had in the movies were the director's, Alfonso Cuaron, idea. Cuaron thought it would help the whole Azkaban prisoner look. And I'm pretty sure the tattoos were temporary/make-up applied during filming.

HI-LO this is one of those things that really sucks you in, huh? you guys are all doing so well at finding information :)the fact that some of the symbols are associated with rebirth is an exciting thought. sorry this was'nt helpfull, keep up the good work guys! love sirius xoxoxoxoxoxo

I think that there was a very good reason for his tattoos. Like in DH *spoiler He had the Muggle posters. Maybe they were for rebellion. Just to get on his mother's nerves. spoiler*