Why do you think JK has taken us back to the early ages of underdeveloped man's life??Why do students use quills when pens are availaible??What was her whole idea of taking us back to the age of quills and parchments????

Chels,aka really confused girl waiting for reply.

Thats a good question. I can think of pros and cons of both pens and quills, but you would think they would at least use fountain pens or something. We know that they can enchant quills, so maby they just have been using them for so long they figured, "why switch?"

You know I kind of wondered about this too; and I think it's just some kind of literary device or something JK's using. She is trying to show that our world is much different than the wizarding world, and the quills are just one of the little things she uses to express this idea. That's just my take on it.


Happy Holidays everybody!

Hmm, that's a really good question, actually. I definitely agree with Feeder that JKR is trying to illustrate the radical difference between the wizarding world and the Muggle world, each of which the other would perceive as "backwards," if you get my drift. Wizards have spells, they can dictate reports to quills, and therefore there is no need for fancy gadgets like pens and computers that our society takes for granted. Muggles do not have the same capabilities as wizards (ie no wands), and they feel the need to compensate for their limited natural powers by inventing technology to accomplish things that wizards are meanwhile accomplishing by way of potion. Perhaps we overcompensate at times -- we can't Avada Kedavra our enemies, so let's go make bombs, right?

Well....you all have got a point,but I think...that when it comes to magic,people relate it to times either long in the oast or something with high technology in the future!Authors always stand out different and have an odd way of thinking you know!SO basically they don't want to relate magic with present times is it??????
Oh!I'm all confused!!

Chels, jbajbgcff SFfffwfffff!

ok well birds are of great importance to the wizarding worlds. so i think quills are of big importance too. i mean we have seen hedwig posess special powers like finding harry in PoA. i mean all owls must have unique powers to find the people who they are delivering owls to. so i think quills have special powers too. and they connect with the wizards to owls so i think the quills do too.

I did wonder about this, and in my fanfic they used a biro and normal paper, but I think JKR used quills because people see wizards and wiches living in ye olde past and using quills so she made them use quills to fit in with our expectations.

one simple question I am sure you feeble minds can conceive:

why not?

wizards and witches have no use for such advances because the can enchant items to work the same way said advances So the need for advances is greatly diminished

I'll bet my broomstick that JKR didn't pay as much attention and thought to this topic as we do.

This isnt just about quills and parchment they dont live in the same sorts of houses like the wheeslys they live in what i can best describe as a wabbly tower(why not a normal house?) and the malfoys in a castle

But i think JK is trying to show us the difference bettween rich and poor people as she was once very poor and is now super rich

'Feeble minds', Dark-raven? That's just a little on the rude side, don't you think? Please be a bit more careful how you express yourself - it's not very nice to go around insulting the intelligence of your fellow fans, you know

i did wonder about this untill in OoP when mr weasly was taking harry to the disiplinary hearing and they pass a ticket colector mashine and mr weasly say "Genius" when harry tells him it is out of order mr weasly say "well yes but its amazing what muggles come up with to replace magic" see there it is they use old fashion things because they dont need the new stuff.

Well, from a Muggle-centric standpoint (heh heh -- I love that term, Allie!), the wizarding world appears to be a bit "backward" in many things other than pens. Personally, I find the old-fashioned-ness endearing. One of the things that I loved about the PS and COS movies were that the people in Diagon Alley look like they're from a Dickens novel (with the exception of the pointy hats). It actually kind of grates on my canon-loving nerves to see the more modern clothes in POA and GOF, but that's getting slightly off topic.

Anyway, I agree with most people here, that wizards don't have a need to advance technology so they are more likely to remain out-dated.

Just one question, though -- I'm not sure why quills suggests that JK is an "Orthodox." Are you referring to religions, like Greek Orthodox or Jewish Orthodox? (Speaking as an Orthodox Jew, I assure you we do use pens! ) Just curious.

The technological dichotomy between the wizarding and muggle world not only provides a basis for mystery--everything about the wizarding world is new and exciting for Harry---as well as add literary flare, but it actually highlights the similarities between the two. At first glance, wizards and muggles seem to have nothing in common. Wizards study differently, travel differently, clean house, cook, and fight crime all through different means then nonmagical humans. So when they still feel fear, or test anxiety, or anger, or loneliness, or get into rows over studpid things, we muggles can relate. It's like the "Other" prime minister points out in HPatHBP, the problem with magic is that both sides, good and bad, have it. In other words, J.K. Rowling opens the window to a spectacular, magical place where sweaters knitt themselves and potions bottle-up liquid luck, but in the end, Human nature is the same.

I've always looked at this as a bit of an evolutionary stand point. The magical population segregated themselves from the the muggle population many years ago. From that point of there is very very little connection with the muggle world. Therefore, chnages in the muggle world would not just simple transfer over to the magical one. The magical population would only chnage what they needed to change out of neccessity, and i guess quills never became that important, but other things such as glasses may have.

Its similar to one species of animal seperated on 2 islands. Once they become seperated they adapt in what ever way is required for them to prosper. Would you consider quills to be that important? Other things such as trains maybe important in a world were children arn't allowed to apperate and mass port keys become problematic. Therefore Hogwarts used a train to solve the problem of getting all it students at the school at the same time.

Ofcourse JKR could have written this in reminiscent mode!! She's of the same era as me and we would have both been at school in the 70's. Not that we used quills back then, but we did have ink wells on our desks, and we did fill our fountain pens from them. The other things she has included such as The Steam Train, could be the same. Where JK grew up there is still a train line that has steam trains run from time to time, they are things she probably remembers from her own childhood. As to why she didn't put in some high tech modern stuff like computers, well the emphasis back in the 70's was to read and learn from books. We never had computers back then.

I'll start by saying that I think that the history associated with the stories is wonderful. History is very romantic, in a way. It adds a richness to the stories which has a very solid, authentic feel to it. The success with which Jo conveys this is probably a result of her own life, like you said, Elaine.

However, I cannot believe that it was a conscious decision, as someone has said here, I think. I think it runs far deeper than that. The Hogwarts world is a fantasy land, dreamed up by an exceptionally talented and imaginative woman. She said Harry simply walked right into her head. I suppose it means that her subconscious had a lot to do with it.

She was sitting on a train, and I can imagine that she might have wished to just disappear there and then to a world where things were different. So Harry came out of modern muggle society, knowing about it all, but discovered a world with much more charisma and charm. It's important to note that Harry escapes our world. Like our world could do with some minor improvements.

The beauty of the magical world is that it really can't get much better, if you keep in mind the fact that humans inhabit it. It feeds upon the human ability to only remember the good things - the good old days. It really is enchanting how people are always reminiscing and convincing themselves that things used to be better. It's feeds upon the human ability to believe that something better exists, and if it's not here and now, then it must have been in the past, because that is all we really know. That is what's reflected in the older ways of the wizards. It's a very romantic image, the past. It's mysterious, and yet safe, because nothing can change it. The past feels comfortable and familiar, but in an enigmatic and intriguing way, because it's not real and tangible. It keeps excitement alive, while soothing worries about the future.

Also, in the magical world, the irritating things are simple. Whether you hate cleaning up, washing up, fixing things, remembering things, packing, organising - you name it, it's all easily dealt with. It satisfies our lazy nature - I can imagine that we wouldn't be missing much if we could clean up the kitchen with a flick of a wand. The tiny things that seem only to exist to irritate us, are of no consequence in the magical world.

It sounds rather perfect. Comfort is the key word here. I think that might be part of the success of these books. Comfort in a progressive way, and comfort in a passive way. It really is a funny balance.

Although I agree. I am still convinced that JKR looked back to her past. Its the same as looking back on a childhood that you remember as only having warm dry summers and cold snowy winters. She even refers to the hosepipe bans caused by the draught. That is something that I remember from growing up, and like I said we were growing up at the same time only about 100 mile apart in the south of England.

When we look back to our pasts, especially as you get older, you see things through rose tinted glasses and they do becaome almost magical. I can identify with so much of what she has written in to Harry Potter, right down to the magic of the kitchen (lets face it when I was growing up food did magically appear from what seemed like nowhere)!! If you wanted to buy something special to wear, you had to go into London (Diagon Alley). If you went to Grammer school you were sent a book list and had to go to a specialist book store. We all got our exam resullts at the end of August, and still do. Nearly all schools were sorted into houses, most of the time red,yellow, blue and green (Gryffindor, Hufflepuff, Ravenclaw, Slytherin). There are so many similarities to life in 1970's England for it not to have been a coincidence. And I for one am quite happy to make the connection between the 2.

Maybe I didn't express myself too well, but I actually agree wholeheartedly with you! That's exactly it - she's using her own fantasy land, made up of pieces of her own adventures, to create and build a world that has an incredibly safe and magical feel to it. She uses images from her own childhood to create this wonderfully strange, wonderfully safe world, and because it's so familiar to her, and because she's such a talented author, we feel just as comfortable in it.

Yeah, that's definitely it. I was referring to her not making a decision about setting the story in a completely different time frame, because I believe she is almost fulfilling a dream of escaping reality as it is now, and going to a place which feels safe and comfortable. Both elements are important for the fantasy to be so powerful, you know. The escape is almost half of the fun, and I think it came very naturally with the whole idea.

Sorry Capricorn...you put your point across admirably!! It was just me...reading it the wrong way, so I read your post agian and realised oops!! What a dope!!

No worries! At least we agree - imagine what a misunderstanding it would have been if we'd tried to disagree in between it all!

I was just wondering about the word 'orthodox' in the thread title. What would that mean? For example, are we classifying her as 'orthodox' by saying she is in reminisce mode?

The muggle and wizarding worlds have evolved separately. We may not think of a pen as being "technology", but it is. In the wizarding world, there are other ways of communicating, so the development of technology that aids wizards in writing isn't as important as it is to muggles.
Whilst muggles were developing things like pens and paper to aid with communication, wizards were focused on other things. Basically, muggles and wizards have different needs, so technology is not going to progress along exactly the same lines in both worlds

this is soooo frustrating! if the doorat jk's site now tells the new title how do you take the wombat test!!!!!