I was just thinking, was Hagrid simply expelled on the word of Tom Riddle - the real heir of Slytherin?

I mean, wouldn't they have let Hagrid defend himself, or the fact that he was in Gryffindor and the heir of Slytherin would've been in er...Slytherin? I just noticed watching PS tonight on TV [their voices are so squeaky!] and Hagrid was clearly an avid Gryffindor supporter.

Sod Rita Skeeter & Ludo Bagman subplots, I'd rather hear more about a major figure in the series.

I agree. I think they should have at least let Hagrid defend himself. And someone in Gryffindor would be the last person to be the heir of Slytherin
And another thing, after Harry left the diary (it's been a long time since i've seen the movie or read the book) did he actually say that it was Hagrid who did it last time or that it could be?

Like Tom said himself, it was his word (a perfect student with a perfect record and high intelligence) against the blundering bloke, Hagrid. Even if Hagrid had spoken up for himself, it wouldn't have done any good.

The judicial system in the wizard world doesn't seem to have close to as many defendant rights as the system in say, the United States. Somebody who is accused of something really has no ability to defend themselves and prove otherwise unless drastic actions are taken (Dumbledore gets Harry out of the dementor problem early in OotP, but Harry is also accused of using magic in CoS, and he gets no chance to prove himself innocent).

Also, Hagrid wasn't a Gryffindor, he was a Hufflepuff. So there really wasn't any "Gryffindor v. Slytherin" action going on there.

Where does it say that Hagrid was in Hufflepuff?
I always thought he was in Gryffindor.

As for justice in the wizarding world ... it is high time for some changes, it's far too summary for my liking. When someone like Barty Crouch Sr can send Sirius to Azkaban for life without a trial ... or when Harry can be schlepped in front of the full Wizengamot and the hour is changed so that "justice" can be spoken without defence ...
there isn't much evidence of "due process", is there?

hmmmmm... you know, I was looking through the Sorceror's Stone book to find the part where Hagrid tells Harry he is from Hufflepuff, and I guess it's not actually there. What I did find (and this was where I thought Hagrid told Harry) is this:

"And what are Slytherin and Hufflepuff?"

"School houses. There's four. everyone says Hufflepuff are a lot o' duffers, but -"

"I bet I'm in Hufflepuff." Said Harry gloomily. (US Edition pg. 80)


I guess over time that conversation just sort of molded itself in my brain as a statement that Hagrid was from Hufflepuff. The but- at the end of Hagrids sentence makes me feel as though he was maybe going to finish off by saying "I was in that house"

Is there anywhere in the books that says for sure that Hagrid was in Gryffindor?

Oh i figured it out. (Sorry about the double posting here) It is never said in the books which house Hagrid is in, but JKR said in an interview that he was in Gryffindor. Sorry for the confusion.

Well, yes, they HAVE mentioned that hagrid was in Gryffindor in the books, but it must have been after Chamber of Secrets. Plus, Riddle was a very smart and respected student, prefect, and Head Boy at Hogwarts, so his word would have a large input. Especially if he claimed to have seen something suspicious.

You also have to remember that they did not know about the Chamber of Secrets back then! They had no clue who or what was causing the deaths, NOR that you had to be the heir of Slytherin to open the door in the first place! It was not until after the entire happening, and Ridle left school and everything, that they found out about the CoS.........

hope that helped you all!


_daviD

With regard to Riddle's word being taken over Hagrid's, there is another thing that needs to be taken into account - the time frame. Hagrid and Tom Riddle were at Hogwarts 50 years before Harry Potter which would make it, if the harry Potter Lexicon is anything to go by, 1943.

The wizarding world echoes our world in having it prejudices and petty suspicions. Therefore as a half-giant, giants being strongly mistrusted thean as now, there would be a general mistrust of Hagrid to begin with.

Furthermore, the character of Tom Riddle is displayed as possessing immense charm and charisma. Clearly, he had managed to beguile the entire teaching staff of Hogwarts, with the exception of Dumbledore who, as always, remained firmly in support of Hagrid.

The more liberal atmosphere of Hogwarts that we see now, where a werewolf is allowed in as a student and as a teacher, albeit covertly, would not have taken effect until Dumbledore ascended to the Headmaster's position around 1955

I'm not surprised they took Riddle's word. I mean he was like the charasmatic, perfect student, and Hagrid was the half-giant who always got in trouble and has a thing for dangerous animals. Who's word are you going to take?

Tom Riddle was a very charmful boy and all the staff liked him. Dumbledore was the only one that suspected him and I am willing to bet my life that Dumbledore tried to perform Legillimacy sometime on him. But Tom Riddle by that time was probably already a skilled occlumens so even Dumbledore coudn't put up an argument that it was not indeed Hagrid.

We have to also remember that Hagrid did have Aaragon in the castle, and he could have killed. Hagrid probably did admitt to having the acromantula and could not prove that he didn't kill, so perhaps it was thought that Aaragon did the killing and Hagrid, having nothing to defend him, really had no shot at proving otherwise. The facts added up to Hagrid and the Acromantula.

[EDIT]: lol opps, Aragog...thanks passerby

Heh, heh. . .wasn't it Aragog, Nimbus? A little too much Lord of the Rings for you? Heh.

I'm inclined to agree-Riddle did hold charm and charisma that he was able to get what he wanted out of most people (before he ended up killing them, but that's a whole other issue!). I think that people would have held Hagrid's demeaner and background against him. He's not exactly the most eloquent of people, is he? And we know that Tom was top of his game, but we have no indication how Hagrid was as a student.

All that being said, I think that if I were in the situation (without the knowledge of who Tom really is) and were to be faced with deciding Hagrid's fate just by Tom's word-I probably would have agreed with Tom. (After all, he had "aaragon"-ooh, couldn't resist).

Now, he wasn't sent to Azkaban for that, was he? I can't remember? So, maybe he did have a trial and was released, but remained expelled because he did have a deadly creature within the school?

yea they took TR word over Hagrid becuase of his perfect record and outstaning status at the school, and its kinda sad that only DD knew the truth, but here is something to ponder how come Hagrid was never dropped of these charges becuase once LV came into power i sure it was obvious in the wizarding world it was him who opened it.

hmm this is a very good question

i think that DD knew what riddle was at (yes i do) and he did not want him to know.

plus all the teachers in the school were all very pleased of riddle. they thought he was a magnificent boy. they also knew he was quite popular with his friends (known as the death eaters today) some of these friends were bellatrix malfoy rookwood and many more
and as you know DD said he was not to bad at legillency (or something close but to read someones mind) he could have known that way also.
uness riddle knew occulemency at 5th or 6th yea (wich is quite remarkale without haveing a real good teacher) (such as snape in harrys world)

well this was my oppinion i hoped that all of you people understood

in my opinion They gave Hagrid a chance to defend himself.It was not the order from the Slythrin Guy Tom Riddle to expelled him.But the words of Tom really very meaning ful for every one even for Dumbuldore.

Tom Riddle, as we learn in HBP was a very good student and all the teachers positively loved him, even though he was a Slytherin. And remember, the only one who knew he was the heir of Slytherin was himself. Now look at Hagrid, a giant who is known for loving very strange creatures. Who would a teacher believe?
Also, it was a time of great nervousness. If they didn't find out who killed Myrtle, Hogwarts would close. Obviously, they blamed the first person they had evidence on.

I agree with what everyone has said about the fact that he was a very good student and he was really talented and smart. But still I think they should have given Hagrid a fair shot at proving his innocence. But really if you didn't know Tom as who he would become you would probably say Hagrid was guilty too. And as he says in the movie.."you'll find I can be very persusaive.." so maybe the teacher that didn't beleive that 100 percent were some how charmed or persuaded. But I wonder did Dumbledore know about Tom's parentage at that time..the fact that he was a direct descendant of Slytherin..also when Dumbledore meets him for the first time doesn't he tell Dumbledore that he can talk to snakes?? Wouldn't that be an indicator right there?? Also DD must have believed somehow that Hagrid was innocent if he let him come back to live on school grounds. And Riddle says " He kept an annoyingly close watch on me after that." So even if DD didn't know maybe he suspected it.
All for now...
Courtney

I agree with this statement. In the books, there are many instances of prejudice. For examlple, OoTP, we see that Umbridge, who is a Ministry employee, is very prejudiced to "half breeds". I always assumed that the majority of the ministry and important people of the wizarding world had that sort of holier than thou mind frame. When faced with a squeaky clean testimony by Tom Riddle against a "half breed" like Hagrid, they found it very easy to takes Tom's word over Hagrid's. Instances like this will most likely play a part in the end of the series, and in my opinion are parallel to many real world issues.

It makes me sick to think about poor hagrid stuttering about not setting the basilisk loose... it make so me so angry.... I wonder if Hagrid was ever acquitted for the crimes, he should be allowed to do magic legally now since the true perpetrator is known

it is always a possibilty that the officials who had power over the fate of hagrid were threatened or were extremely ignorant.These men and women were obviously confused by a mystery such as this one. On the other hand by using some common sense they would have realized first,Hagrid is in Griffindor(already pointed out),and second of all hagrid was an outcast he was a hermit who everyone thought had some issues.After reading my points you should realize that hagrid had no friends/ followers like ferocious beast implying he had some concern for life and last but certainly not least if hagrid were heir to slytherin he would have showed the same intelligence, strenghts and interests as Tom Marvolo Riddle.

i think that something is going on that will make things waaaay clearer in the next book maybe hagrid and dumbledore are planning what to do and say along with some other people...who knows?


-susie

Tom Riddle was definitely a "star" pupil for every teacher. They thought he was a good person but were fooled. Dumbledore being a powerful wizard, wasn't fooled.

You cannot blame anyone for having the wool pulled over their eyes by Tom Riddle. Anyone would have liked him and respected him. In a strange way he would have been like Hermione, a hard-working kind person and (a strange mixture I know) slightly lke Malfoy, with a bullying presence and invisible mark of authority amongst many.

His word against Hagrid's would have been like Malfoy's against Neville Longbottoms for example. Many teachers, especially Snape would believe him because they either like him or are scared of him.

Also, Voldemort will have made Death Eater friends at Hogwarts because they would have respected him for getting an innocent person expelled just because they were a half-giant. As the death eaters respect only people with pure-blood, or who have powerful ancestory and aristocracy. They would have hated Hagrid. I don't believe Ridds/Volds would have bullied or threatened people to become his friends. This would be hard to believe because the death eaters are terrible, but strong characters.

Also, as a matter of curiosity, which death eaters would have actually been at school with R/V?

i think hagrid didnt have a chance it was him against a high respectable head boy forget about slytheren and griffindor who would you belive dont get me wrong i love hagrid

i think the reason why the convicted hagrid on riddles word alone was

1) someone had died.
2) the smartes most reliable person in the school corned the person
3) hagrid is part giant
4) harid has a fondness for evil animals (aragog wh they though was the monster)
5) he HARGID

and the most inportantly

6) if they did nto act the school was goingto be closed down

i think the reason why the convicted hagrid on riddles word alone was

1) someone had died.
2) the smartes most reliable person in the school corned the person
3) hagrid is part giant
4) harid has a fondness for evil animals (aragog wh they though was the monster)
5) he HARGID

and the most inportantly

6) if they did nto act the school was goingto be closed down

[quote]yea they took TR word over Hagrid becuase of his perfect record and outstaning status at the school, and its kinda sad that only DD knew the truth, but here is something to ponder how come Hagrid was never dropped of these charges becuase once LV came into power i sure it was obvious in the wizarding world it was him who opened it.

i dont think most of the wizarding world knows tom riddle is now voldemort

and i think hagrid diddnt get away off because he had aragog in the castle

I think that the older wizards and witches must know about TR Being Voldemort because while he was at school he started going by Voldemort with his friends, so people around the school would have picked up that perfect tom riddle likes to go by voldemort. I dont think that the younger witches and wizards know that TR is voldemort because no one talks about him, so having them go into detial about him with their children or friends does not seem likley. After a while the majority would forget about TR being Voldemort, but i am sure that a wide varity of wizards are aware of the conection.

I don't think so. The majority of the people at Hogwarts did not know who the Marauders were. They had names that they only called one another. Similarly, only Tom's lackeys would have called him Lord Voldemort. After Tom left school, he still went by the name of Tom for a while (at least as long as it took to kill Hepzibah Smith). Then he disappeared for ten years. It was during this time that he fully shed the name Tom Riddle. When he reappeared, he was so different physcially that few people would have made the connection between Tom Riddle and Lord Voldemort. The only ones who would really know were the Death Eaters and those intelligent wizards who search Voldemort's past (or were a part of it).

I believe that hogwarts was just obsessed with finding the culprit so that hogwarts did not close. They chose to believe riddle with no evidence because they wanted the children to have a good magical education. Also i believe there may have been some prejudice against hagrid because he is a half breed. No-one wanted proof they just wanted a quick and easy solution. There was a complete lackof Justice in hagrids case. :'(

also a lot of people diidn't belive in the chamber of secrets so they thought aragrog was the animal that was attacking people they diddn't think hagrid was the hier of slytherin and dumbeldore says that tom riddle only went by lord voldemort with his most intimate friends while at school the kids that turned out to be the first death eaters

I think that they were pretty desperate to finally catch someone, the school was about to close and someone had already died. And also, I can't imagine Hagrid being the star student, I'm sure Tom Riddle was more believable in the teacher's and headmaster's eyes. I think they were just going on the fact that there were no more leads, so Aragog had to be the monster who was attacking students.