Mimo
Dec 26 2005, 07:49 PM
I think that Professor McGonagall may be a traitor. Actually, her attitude when she learned Dumbledore’s death is very ambiguous and weird. Page 615 (american edition): ” “Snape”, repeated MG faintly, falling into the chair. “We all wondered… but he trusted… always… Snape… I can’t believe it…”"
The most obvious interpretation is that she’s astonished by the treachery of Snape and that Dumbledore always trusted him in spite of his past. BUT this sentence is actually ambiguous.
1) It isn’t a statement adressed to Harry Potter and the others. It’s rather a sentence adressed to herself, like a private thought.
2) “We all wondered”: we know that neither the Order nor the Death Eaters trust Snape. If MG is a Death Eaters, she’s also wondering if Snape is on the DL’s side.
3)”But he trusted…” It’s exactly the same ambiguity: “he” can be Dumbledore OR the DL. We know that Bellatrix noticed the same fact about the DL.
4) “I can’t believe it!” this statement could be an expression of bad or GOOD surprise. Finally, Snape was trustful. He was on the DL’s side.
Moreover, she’s very eager to possess Dumbledore’s office. And her attitude toward Harry is also odd.
Page 626 of the american edition: “After glancing once at this portrait, Prof. MG made an odd movement as though steeling herself, then rounded the desk to look at Harry, her face taut and lined”. If she was so sad about Dumbledore’s death, she must have been sad, crying, wiping a tear, a sthg like that. Unless she’s suprised by Dumbledore slumbering in the golden frame… unless it’s the sign that Dumbledore isn’t really dead…
“Prof MG glared at him”: why is she so furious? She must have understood how Harry was upset, exactly as Dumbledore did after Sirius’s death… She’s as nasty as Umbridge or “Fol oeil” (it’s the french name, I can’t remember the english name, as I read the Gobblet of Fire in French). And actually, I am sure one could make the exact parallel between her and his attitude after the death of Dumbledore/Cedric.
Dumbledore believed that the symbol of Gryffondor wasn’t a Horcrux, because he protected it. BUT if MG is a traitor, as I’m convinced, she could have made a Horcrux from the gryffondor’s sword on the behalf of the Dark Lord. She’s powerful enough to do that.
What do you think about it?
TheOneWhoHatesSnape
Dec 26 2005, 09:34 PM
Yes, I'm agree with you about Professor Mcgonagall's attitude. I can't believe that she only go to DUMBLEDORE'S office! She can't stay there! She have to be in his office, like proffesore Umbridge!!!
That office belongs to Dumbledore!
Nimbus
Dec 27 2005, 01:54 AM
Sorry, but I don't agree. McGonnagal doingall that stuff is proof of nothing more then the fact that she knew she needed to be strong at that moment, not only for herself, but for the students and other members of the order.
Aethonon
Dec 27 2005, 02:23 AM
What an interesting idea!
Unlikely, but interesting. I can see how it might be pretty easy for to get a horcrux object to LV if she was on his side. There were two other occasions before Dumbledore's death when Dumbledore had to leave and she was Headmistress temporarily. She could have taken the sword out and had it back before anyone knew.
I guess I would find myself wondering what her motivation would be. Why would she be on LV's side? It wouldn't be very fair for JK to just throw that into the last book, when she's given us really very little information about McGonagall's past beforehand. It would be like reading a mystery story only to find out at the end that the perpetrator was a complete stranger who doesn't show up till the last chapter. lol
And yeah, it's weird having her in Dumbledore's office. But it's really the headmaster's office, so it was only his while he was headmaster.
LoLa
Dec 27 2005, 06:59 AM
like ppl say its a gd idea....but i dnt think mg is bad...lol...i guess one of the on;y reasons she duznt have a breakdown sumthing, or duznt cry etck....is perhaps from the very beginnning, she has always been a very strong character...who duznt display or depict love, feelings like dat etck... she has alwys been disciplined...and in a way she may seem cold-hearted...soi guess dat point of her being surprised duznt really count.
but nywez...uits a gd idea...but its not wht i wud like 2 happen in the 7th book:P
Mimo
Dec 27 2005, 11:48 AM
I am glad you appreciate my theory. Let me defend it one more time.
1) McGonagall's reaction has to be compared with Lupin's and Tonk's one. They are clearly talking about Dumbledore, and they are clearly upset, sad, etc.
2) We usually see McGonagall with the slytherin's students, since the 2nd volume. Whereas Snape doesn't lurk with Gryffondor's students.
3) In the 12th chapter, McGonagall is odd: she's kind with Leanne when she hears that Leanne understood nothing. On the other hand, she breaks the discussion very suddenly when Harry says that so brought the necklace on the behalf of the dark lord.
4) Don't you think strange that Malfoy was in detention with McGonagall during the accident of the necklace?
marire
Dec 27 2005, 03:35 PM
Your oppinion is good in theory, but I don't belive that MGonagall is bad. I don't remember him showing ever any signs of it. And it would be very odd if Rowling would suddenly turn him evil in book 7. But, anything can happen.
| QUOTE |
| McGonagall's reaction has to be compared with Lupin's and Tonk's one. They are clearly talking about Dumbledore, and they are clearly upset, sad, etc. |
I think McGonagall just doesn't want to show her feelings. She hasn't never been the type who I would expect crying aloud in public. And she might have thought that as a new leader she must show example to students and be strong.
| QUOTE |
| 2) We usually see McGonagall with the slytherin's students, since the 2nd volume. Whereas Snape doesn't lurk with Gryffondor's students. |
I don't have any really good anser to this, but I belive someone in Slytherin in more often in trouble than Gryffindof (not counting Fred and George

),and McGonal just happens to be there. But I admit, thise isn't very good explanation
| QUOTE |
| 3) In the 12th chapter, McGonagall is odd: she's kind with Leanne when she hears that Leanne understood nothing. On the other hand, she breaks the discussion very suddenly when Harry says that so brought the necklace on the behalf of the dark lord. huh.gif |
I belive she break it because it sounded kinda far-fetched that Voldemort would have tried to do so, when she had more powerfull suporters than (sorry) little girls and cursed neclaces.
| QUOTE |
| 4) Don't you think strange that Malfoy was in detention with McGonagall during the accident of the necklace? |
If I remember right, Malfoy delibratly got himself detention, so that he wouldn't be suspected. It was just covincidence that it happened to be McGonacall
Mimo
Dec 27 2005, 05:47 PM
If you were JK Rowling, what would you do? Everyone thinks that Snape is a traitor, and that he is on Voldemort's side. The reader wonders if it's true or not, he tries to find out an explanation, a theory... and doesn't pay attention to the real traitor, who doesn't draws attention to himself. It is usually the case in novels: the real traitor is unexpected.
Moreover, McGonagall is never in the Black's house. We don't know what she was doing during the holidays, whereas everybody else had a distinct task (Lupin and the werewolves, etc.).
I admit that it is unlikely. Above all no detail in the three first volumes hint that she's odd. But I am not sure that JK Rowling invented the whole story since the beginning of the story... Perhaps she thinks about that possibility since the fourth volume...
Let me remind you that she wasn't at the ministry when the order was in danger in the fifth volume. And when she came back to Hog., she asked Crabbe and Goyle for bringing her coat and her luggage... Weird isn't it?
Sofie
Dec 27 2005, 06:24 PM
I like this thread!
I dont think that McGonagall is a traitor, either but her behavoiur at the end of the book
was odd. I was quite shocked when i first read the part when she keeps asking Harry to tell her where he and DD had been. Im sure she knew that Harry wouldnt tell her, so why asking then? She must have known that its between Harry and DD - that fact that he is dead doesnt change anything.
| QUOTE |
| But I am not sure that JK Rowling invented the whole story since the beginning of the story... Perhaps she thinks about that possibility since the fourth volume... |
Jo said that she started writing PS only after she had the whole plot of all 7 novels. She knew whats gonna happen in book7 before she had started the first.
Remus_Lupin
Dec 28 2005, 02:05 PM
I am so glad other people believe Minerva McGonnagal is a death eater and a traitor. I have some more evidence for this.
Malfoy said he put the imperius curse on rosmerta. It says this:
" '... of course ... Rosmerta. How long has she been under the imperius curse?'
'Got there at last, havent you?' Malfoy taunted"
Malfoy never says how long. It could have been a givaway if he had you see.
There is only one time Malfoy could have gotten to Hogsmede to imperius Rosmerta without help. During the Hogsmede trip.
He couldnt have got out of school without help because of the spells Dumbledore put on the castle. Not even Hermione could break them so Malfoy couldnt. Before getting on the carriges is out of the question because if he did he would have missed the carriges. and he wasnt late or Ron or Hermione would have said.
Now with help he could have brok through the barriers. But there are only (i believe) 3 people who could have broke the barriers. Dumbledore, McGonnagal and Flitwick. Dumbledore never would have and unless Flitwick is evil(which I still partly believe but not as much as I believe McGonnagal is) McGonnagal must have.
Now either McGonnagal broke the barriers for him or she lied about Malfoy being in the detention, allowing him to imperius Rosmerta and have a cover story.
Therefore I believe Professor Minerva McGonnagal is a death eater.
Mimo
Dec 29 2005, 09:24 AM
Thank you for this information Remus_Lupin!!!
Nevertheless, I have a problem.
1) In the fifth volume, why was she so eager to defend Dumbledore against Umbridge? Why wasn't she glad to see Dumbledore far away from H.?
2) I noticed some details against McGonagall since the fifth volume. Did you notice anything else in the previous books? Unless an event made her change...
3) In my opinion, she can't really be a death eater. She just must be helping the dark lord. Otherwise, she should have received the DL's mark, and then been called by it in the fourth volume... Unless an event made her change, as I have said it before.
Do you have any hypothesis about these objections?
Mimo.
Posted on Dec 29 2005, 06:03 PM

I don't have the american edition of the fourth book, so I can't give you the right page. Sorry.
In the 35th chapter of "The Gobblet of Fire", Dumbledore has just stupefixed the wake "Maugrey". Snape and McGonagall are with him. Snape glares the wake Maugrey, as Dumbledore does. BUT McGonagall tells Harry to come with her (exactly as Maugrey did. Dumbledore is gonna say some minutes after that a friend of his would never have sent Harry far away from him), and is as if she's gonna cry!

[COLOR=red]She's gonna cry for a death eater!!!! And then, one more time, she tries to bring Harry with her, far from the only one who is able to protect Harry from Voldemort, Dumbledore.
Strange isn't it?
MOD EDIT: No double-posting, please. Thanks for being careful next time.
Darth_Oz
Dec 29 2005, 10:15 AM
Do bear in mind that emotive was never a word to describe Minerva - she has always had a cool air about her, even when she was annoyed. I remember a great line in PS when it's said she could silence the class with a single look.
Re the death, McGonangall's reaction is just as I expected it to be - she is obviously overwhelmed by the news but she knows she is now in charge, and responsible for Hogwarts. She can't just fall apart now, she has to keep it together. Would Dumbledore have done any different? Nope.
thesolitaryone
Dec 29 2005, 02:59 PM
Interesting idea, yes....
But there is no doubt that Minerva McGonagall is on the right side.
For instance....you are mostly picking on her lack of emotion concerning DD's death. Yes, this may seem like she is a bit heartless, but venture back to previous books. Yes, she has been shocked, angry (furious), stern, and at times a little caring (for Harry mostly), but mostly stern. It is her personality. She was not written to have cried at Cedric's death, and neither at DD'd because it is not in her nature to cry, as she has been withholding this ultra no-one-can-touch-me facade for years now, and old habits do die hard.
Also, you are not counting all the good she has done over the years, like defending Harry for Umbridge and helping Hagrid out at the risk of her own life. Bad people wouldn't do that.
Your theories are based on misguided calculations and perhaps errors on JKR's part. There is no real proof.
And as for her taking over DD's office. Geez man, he was not the only one to use it. People come and go (the portraits on the walls should at least show it) and so do the occupants of the office. YEs, I was sad that he died and a little upset that MM just strode in there without a hint of remorse, but I got over it and sense was knocked into me. No, she wont be as good as DD and will probably never measure even close to him, but do not dare look down upon a character because they took their rightful place on the throne. Geez, lighten up- DD's death does not mean the end of the world.
Still, an interesting idea.....
magic master
Dec 29 2005, 03:51 PM
Its an interesting idea but I don't think McGonagall is a traitor! She had grief beyond tears when Dumbledore died...as many people do when someone they love dies.
And TheOneWhoHatesSnape....the office does not beong to Dumbledore but the Headteacher of Hogwarts which at the moment is McGonagall!
Mimo
Dec 29 2005, 06:46 PM
Actually, you don't speak about my point... How do you explain the fact that she sent Harry far away from DD in the "Gob. of fire"? How do you explain the fact that she's always lurking with the slytherins?
You trust MacGonagall, that's all...
I don't speak about JKR's opinion: I don't care. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of writing a novel, a kind of thriller. She has to surprise the readers.
james pickles
Dec 29 2005, 08:13 PM
no mcgonagall is no where near a traitor, have you seen how loyal she is to dumbledore. no way. she is strict, fair and sometime even humerous and kind but she is no where near traitor level.
dansgal4eva
Dec 29 2005, 09:22 PM
For everything that comes up,JK does give a little warning.mostly people dont notice,but i like mgonagalls character and i dont think she is evil. there is nothing to say she is. in book 5 all she did was help harry. she clearly hated umbridge and the reason she went into dumbledores office..was because she had to. even though he died she knew she had to be strong and took over his office. it would be stupid to leave the office empty forever because dumbledore died. he would of thought it was stupid himself.
Mimo
Dec 31 2005, 08:42 AM
You trust McGonagall, but let me remind you that she isn't real... she just a character that JKR can change as she likes. She has to surprise her readers, and a new traitor instead of Snape would be a good surprise, even if it's not McGonagall.
Moreover, McGonagall is perfect for this kind of role in a novel: she's always there, the reader has the feeling to wellknow her, but actually, her role is quite unimportant. Let us admit she's helpful (not so much actually...): that's all.
Besides, you trust this character so much that you don't answer my objections and questions. Even if you trust her, you have to answer why she's often with slytherin's students, why her attitude is so odd at the end of "The Half-Blood Prince", why she tried to send Harry far from Dumbledore, in such a dangerous situation, although Dumbledore claimed he was the best protection for Harry against Voldemort. You have to acknowledge it's quite strange and weird.
Finally, the readers know less about McGonagall's past than about Snape's past. It is very easy for JKR to use this lack of knowledge to surprise us.
JKR said Dumbledore's weakness to be to much confident toward people... So is yours in my opinion...
misshaunted390
Dec 31 2005, 09:28 AM
On JKR's site, she answered rumours like 'Lily is a Death Eater' with 'How dare you?!'. Well I'm just wondering if this could be one of those times. I don't know what to believe with this.
I've always liked McGonagall a lot. She is actually one of my favourite characters, though I never did suss out why. But anyway, after reading every book like a thousand times each or something, I've never once considered her to be a traitor.
She's a Gryffindor, she's Head of the House and Assistant Head(soon to be Heamistress) of Hogwarts. She has power and authority and she's successful and well known and acknowledged. People like her, people respect her, students respect her, no less. Well baring this in mind, what could she gain from joining LV?
She is an asset to the school, DD's right hand woman, clever, quick-thinking, strong in character, what on the Dark Side could convert her into becoming a spy for LV?
She was one of the first characters in the book. Didn't DD greet her like a friend, an ally? He says something like 'We've had precious little to celebrate for eleven years'. This shows that they've been together and been through the Dark Times with each other. They must have faced the perils together.
I can't remember, but is McGonagall on the photo that Moody showed Harry? I don't think she was, but despite that, she's in the Order now, and fighting hard, too.
I think the only reason she seemed a little subdued after DD's death was shock, and the need to be strong (as the newly instated Headmistress). In truth, I don't think she felt ready to take control, but knew that she had to.
As for meeting with Slytherins, I suspect a lot of them could have overdue punishments and are rather reluctant to take them with her. They'd much rather skive and hope she doesn't notice.
Who knows? She may be a spy, clever little nuck that JK's hidden to pull from under our feet at the last moment, but if McGonagall is a spy, she's played her part flawlessly, because I've never suspected her until this thread. Hmm, we'll see...
Sofie
Dec 31 2005, 12:31 PM
| QUOTE (Mimo @ Dec 31 2005, 07:49 AM) |
... she just a character that JKR can change as she likes. She has to surprise her readers, and a new traitor instead of Snape would be a good surprise, even if it's not McGonagall. |
Thats true.
A lot of peploe think that Snape is not evil, because if he was, we would have lost the most fascinating character of the whole series.
If she had created only good and evil characters, they just wouldnt be realistic and the books wouldnt be so much fun to read.
Im still not saying that McGonagall is a traitor, but its also a possibility. (though, i see no obvious proof of it)
aurorgirl
Oct 10 2006, 01:09 AM
I dont agree with this at all. MaGonagall trusted Dumbledore so obviously she is going to agree to everything that he thought. he was put on a pedistal in everyones eyes and what ever he said everyone naturally believed. I think that the only reason that she said "we all believed" is because of this.
makemeinvisible
Oct 10 2006, 06:25 AM
I don't think that she's a traitor. I just think that she refuses to be so outrightly biased as Snape and treats all students the same, disrespective of the Slytherin and Gryffindor rivalry. As for her reaction to Dumbledore's death... She had been teaching at Hogwarts for forty years when he died, so therefore she has probably known Dumbledore for all of that time. It would be a tremendous loss for her. As well as the shock that the man she trusted beyond all of her doubts turned out to be a traitor.
vortext
Oct 12 2006, 12:39 AM
I think it’s possible, but I can find no strong motive for McGonnagall being a traitor.
Unfortunately she is involved in some unexplainable things. The big one is the very first book PS/SS. Reread those opening chapters. Why is she waiting for hours outside the Dursleys disguised as a cat? She even asks DD about confirming a rumor that the Potters were killed. So why on earth is there? Who sent her? What was she there to do?
There’s other events in later books which makes me wonder even more.
I feel there’s a strong possibility that she’s been under an Imperious Curse.
Another idea that occurred to me is that someone pointed out her personality is very much like Lucius Malfoy. Is it possible her maiden name is Minerva Malfoy? Would that explain why she takes more interest in Draco if she’s his Aunt?
lozza-cm
Oct 12 2006, 01:14 AM
NO WAY!!! i am sorry but i can't agree everyone shows their greiff differently and after Dumbledores death Mcgonagall in the next in charge she could not fall apart...dumbledore wouldn't of wanted that she needed to be strong and keep everyone safe and make actions to keep the school open which is exactly what dumbledore would have wanted...and accusing mcgonagall of being a traitor is like accusing dumbledore of being one as well.
siriously_weasley
Oct 13 2006, 04:10 AM
hmm. interesting point.
mg's reaction was rather peculiar.
after reading the other books, you owuld conclude that mg was dumbledores confidante and personal friend, so when she learned of dumbledores death, you would assume she would react more amazed and totally taken aback.
perhaps mg is a death eater, and works at hogwarts for the same purpose as snape: to spy and pass on information to voldemort. this is hard to imagine, however, because she has helped harry in so many ways. she may be a traitor, or the best actress hogwarts has ever seen.
After the Burial
Oct 13 2006, 04:39 AM
No way. After 40 years of working with Dumbledore? We know she was not when Voldemort got his body back. Read the graveyard scene and you will notice that Voldemort does not mention anything relating to McGonagall when he walks through his ranks of Death Eaters. Do you think she would join after all that?
TheManekin
Oct 22 2006, 07:20 AM
Well, thats a really good theory. But usually when a loved one passes away your in denial and doubtful. i just cannot imagine McGonagall as a death eater. Can you see her running around terrorising people? No way. it just doesn't fit. But
_Hp4lyfe_
Mar 3 2007, 03:10 AM
McGonagall...............she not
MOD EDIT: Unfortunately, one-liners are not permitted on the forums. Posts need to be at least two full lines long of original text. Try to ellaborate more in your posts. If you have any questions, please contact me via PM/Owl, but in the mean time, please read through the rules. Thanks!
vortext
Mar 6 2007, 08:42 PM
QUOTE
Can you see her running around terrorising people? No way. it just doesn't fit. But…
I can.
Think on this Verita members-
1. Why is she waiting for hours outside the Dursleys disguised as a cat? She even asks DD about confirming a rumor that the Potters were killed. So why on earth is there? Who sent her? What was she there to do?
2. Who imprisoned Peter Pettigrew in the rat form? And for that matter who gave Percy Scabbers as a pet?
3. Why doesn’t DD mention her in the list of people sent to Harry’s aid in OotP? Instead DD breaks his own narrative with a heavy sigh. Even he doesn’t want it to be true.
4. Why is she covering up Draco’s activities claiming he was in detention with her?
6. Big one – Who could possibly compel Lily and James Potter to make that bad decision that cost them their lives?
7. Psst! The movies deliver stronger clues with her very green wardrobe.
I now present Hogwart’s Most Faithful Death Eater – Minerva McG.
eagleanimagous
Mar 8 2007, 10:41 PM
i'm sorry but i just don't agree with you here. to me this theory is filled with What if's. Like What if she meant this? What if she was really doing that? it just doesn't seem right. if she was a DE wouldn't Barty Jr. have told her of his plan? she would have had the oppurtunity to bewitch Cedric or Fleur seeing as she was also patrolling the walls of the maze. the clues you pointed out just aren't there.
GryffindorBabexhott
Mar 8 2007, 10:46 PM
Heyy! I see where you can see Professor McGonagal as a death Eater but thn why would she be deputy Headmistress? Could she possibly be as fooling?
vortext to answer your questions its simple.
Dumbledore said to Proffesor Mcg that he knew she would be there. Why would he know a Death Eater was there? And if you heard a very well known family was murdered..would you believe it? She wanted to confrim the rumors like everyone does in life. Who sent her is a very good question. Maybe Dumbledore wanted her there that way is he died she could rescue Harry.
Peter was never stuck in 'rat form'. Pettigrew was believed to be dead - why would he want to reveal himself? That would lead to the release of Sirius and Pettigrews death. I heard that Percy was given to him by his parents. Ron revealed that Scabbers was handed down for centuries.
DD didnt send McGonagal becuase she needs to watch Hogwarts. AShe is deputy Headmistress..she still has tto protect everyone else
How do we know she was covering anything up? He was in detention..what more to hide and Draco didnt want help from Snape. Why would he want McGonagal covering for him?
I dont believe McGonagal was even a teacher at that point. So how would Dumbledore know her? I think we are pretty sure Sirius convinced James an Lily
Her green wardrobe. Maybe she likes the color and maybe the green just shows her mood. Green isnt negative.
In conlcusion, I see no reason why McGonagal would be a death Eter. But Im only posting! Continue on!
Horcrux Number Seven
Mar 8 2007, 10:59 PM
This post really didn't add anything. I apologize for being rude about the opinion.
Mod Edit: We don't tolerate rude people on this site. Check your inbox.
vortext
Mar 9 2007, 09:55 PM
It all sounds good on the surface GrffindorBabesxhot but go back and read Chapter One of PS/SS. “Fancy seeing you here, Prof. McG.” Is what DD says to her. She was then ‘distinctly ruffled’ at being spotted and wanted to know what gave her away. Read on at how she had no idea what happened at Godric’s Hollow and her reaction at the news. Worse still she wants to know why DD is here. So who sent her here in the first place?! Why did she spend the entire day disguised as a cat?
I believe Peter was forced and trapped because of the prophecy Trelawney made.
“His servant has been chained these twelve years. Tonight, before midnight…the servant will break free and set out to rejoin his master.”
Chained and kept in a rat form by another. Remember how in GoF how Draco got turned into a ferret? McG is the expert at transformations and easily countered spelled Moody’s charm. Smooth~ and it took both Lupin and Sirius to unlock Peter.
Good point about minding Hogwarts. But I dread JKR interruptions and I don’t like that DD never says her name.
Draco needed time and an alibi while fixing the Vanishing Cabinet. McG gave him both.
Actually she’s been a teacher since 1956. James Potter, Lily and the rest began school about 1971. You should brain-chew on this, Minerva AND Tom Riddle were students at Hogwarts about the same time.
Green is Voldemort’s color. Movies tend to press the story faster with sight and sound. Besides that Jo hates cats!
Go on and hate me, but if this was real life you know I’ll be there to save you.
I <3 Padfoot
Mar 14 2007, 09:24 PM
QUOTE(Nimbus @ Dec 26 2005, 05:54 PM) [snapback]141763[/snapback]
Sorry, but I don't agree. McGonnagal doingall that stuff is proof of nothing more then the fact that she knew she needed to be strong at that moment, not only for herself, but for the students and other members of the order.
I completely agree about the part when 'Nimbus" said that she needed to be strong but I also think that the Forum Starter makes some very good points. I just hope she is on our side.
keith
Mar 15 2007, 11:36 PM
I also think mcgonagal is a traitor.we've been led to believe snape was the one to distrust,and i believe there's a red herring.I think j.k rowling intentionally led us to believe she was above suspicion.There's also something on the hp lexicon that mcgonagal and vlodemort went to school together within just two years of each other.There is also the fact that i dont think snape would have killed dumbledore for his own or voldemorts gain.Dumbledore treated snape like a son....actually almost like he treated harry.He defended him no matter what and even on occasions stretched the truth for him.BUT mcgonagal has done nothing to stand out as a supporter of dumbledore,besides never even being thought of as a traitor.
vortext
Mar 16 2007, 06:34 PM
Minerva McGonagall is the strongest female character in the book. It’s awful that these incidents are gathering, shading her character. Here’s more to think on~
Remember what happened last time McG was in charge of Hogwarts? In CoS the Basilisk nabs Ginny while DD was suspended. But why blame Minerva? Ask yourself this, how did she know a monster took her away? Did she actually see a Basilisk sneak up on Ginny, clamp his snakey jaws about her robe and slide back down to the Chamber? *snort*
If you go back earlier in CoS when Colin got petrified look at the dialogue between DD and McG. McG is carrying on about ‘who’ could’ve opened the Chamber. But DD’s reply is interesting and bypasses the ‘who’ ~~ he only wants to know ‘how’.
I’m extremely concerned about Herminoine. A bad teacher can create a bad student. Ms. Granger respects and wants a teacher’s approval so much that her boggart is McG telling her how ‘she’s failed’.
EDIT~atoes served up fresh! 3/22
Had a lazy Saturday with HP and the S Stone on the tv. Even though I’ve seen this movie many times over there was something new to spot. At the very end when DD is awarding extra house points to the Gryffs the camera does something odd. I thought it was just bad editing, but I bet it’s intentional.
When DD speaks of Neville showing courage against his own friends, the camera isn’t on him or Neville. It’s directly on Prof. McGonagall.
I think this is a part of why DD trusts Snape and can’t explain to Harry. Snape must of told DD about McG’s involvement with the Death Eaters. If you have ever lived to explain to someone why their ‘good friend’ isn’t one you’ll know how hard this is.
Neville Loves Me
Jun 13 2007, 02:31 PM
To me it seems highly unlikely that Minerva is a Death Eater. However, since my friend pointed out the possibility to me, I have been keeping an eye out for clues as to where her loyalty lies. There is one thing that really stuck out to me. It has already been mentioned, but I'd like to discuss it in fuller detail.
In GoF when Harry returns from the maze, Moody removes him from Dumbledore's sight. This is how Dumbledore knows that Moody is not the real Moody. However Harry sees Moody's transformation into Barty Crouch Jr., and immediately Minerva wants to take Harry to the "hospital wing." Dumbledore has just finished saying that the real Moody would never have let Harry leave his side after finding out that Voldy returned. And yet McGonagall tries vehemently to get him away from Dumbledore.
What's that about!?
Also, she freaks out royally when she finds out that Dumbledore knows about Barty Crouch Jr. being alive and imposter-ing! Perhaps there is a ship here that we have not fully investigated?
Remember when Bertha Jorkins comes out of the pensieve and says that she was "just teasing him" because she saw him kissing Florence behind the greenhouses and then Dumbledore says something to the effect of "why did you say anything at all, Bertha?" We assume that the "him" in this situation is Tom Riddle. However, what if it was actually Barty Jr.? And what if she was teasing him because she saw him cheating on Minerva with Florence? It's a really far stretch, but don't kill my grandiose fantasies!
*Neville Loves Me*
vortext
Jun 13 2007, 04:04 PM
Interesting that you bring up GoF! When Harry is in the hospital wing DD makes certain McG and Poppy are out of the room. He shuts the door and tells Arthur Weasley about getting the OotP together again. Looks like DD’s is keeping her out of this.
Did you also notice that McG was in charge of protecting Barty’s room yet somehow she let the boggarts in to suck his soul. She’s a formidable person with strong powers! I can’t see her easily stepping aside for Fudge w/o raising a wand.
I also think she’s the one who Imperious Cursed Rosemerta at the Three Broomsticks. I really don’t think Draco’s will is strong enough for such a thing. Draco did speak of having help.
QUOTE(Neville loves me)
We assume that the "him" in this situation is Tom Riddle.
Not me.
QUOTE(Neville loves me)
It's a really far stretch, but don't kill my grandiose fantasies!
Okay. But what I
could tell you might spoil Deely Heely for you…
Insomnia
Jun 13 2007, 05:23 PM
Well, when I first read the title to this thread, I though "No Way!" However, after reading it, there are some really good points to be made to show MM as being a traitor. But, I also have to take into account that everyone interprets things differently and everything can be interpreted more than one way. It all depends on how you want to see the information before you.
While I can see both sides of the story, I chose to believe that MM is good. She was there fighting side by side with the Order the night the DE's gained access to the school. (I know, she could have done that on orders from LV.) And I also think she has an important role left to play in DH. Hogwarts is going to need her more than ever if and when the DE's try to take Hogwarts over. I'm not sure the students morale could stand for her to abandon them. It would be a major blow because DD always trusted her, she was his "right hand man", deputy headmistress (or headmistress now with DD gone), and a strong figure which to respect and admire.
Although she had a very stern attitude most of the time, we did get to see the softer side sometimes. I can't think of any exact moments right now but I remember it being mentioned because it was unusual for her to smile and show warmth. She also rushed Harry and Ron to DD when Harry had the "vision" of Ron's dad. She could have said that it was just a dream and to go back to bed allowing Ron's dad to die, but she didn't.
Anyways, like I said, I can see where the idea of this thread is coming from. But I am going to stand firm that MM is good. She has to be! And if I end up being wrong, then so be it. I will admit my mistake. But for now, GO MCGONAGALL!
vortext
Jun 14 2007, 04:23 PM
QUOTE
She was there fighting side by side with the Order the night the DE's gained access to the school.
I think she put the magical barrier on the staircase for the Death Eaters. I think she helped them along and invited Greyback to the party.
QUOTE
I also think she has an important role left to play in DH.
Me too. I think it will be getting killed.
by Snape would be awesome…QUOTE
I'm not sure the students morale could stand for her to abandon them
I know. This is a massive betrayal.
QUOTE
It would be a major blow because DD always trusted her,
*nudge-nudge* DD has
never ever said he trusted McG,
only Severus Snape.
QUOTE
a strong figure which to respect and admire
I feel that way as well! Don’t get me wrong. I hate that one of the better characters looking sour. But I use logic and strategy over any emotions. I don’t like what I’m seeing.
QUOTE
Although she had a very stern attitude most of the time, we did get to see the softer side sometimes.
Fake, fake. Boo-hoo I was a little stern with Peter Pettigrew.
grrrr
QUOTE
And if I end up being wrong, then so be it. I will admit my mistake.
*groan* Never mind it might get you killed if this was real. Of course I’ll have to save you and you’ll sooo hate me for it. Down the hall there’s McG on the right and Snape on the left. I’m going left (only after de-pantsing him!) and dragging you with me.
padfootx3
Jun 27 2007, 02:41 PM
I have only read the first post of this, but i completely disagree. How could you say this? Nobody ever distrusted Dumbledore. Snape and McGonagall do argue sometimes, and she said that he gloated to her about winning the quidditch cup. I do not think it is possible that they are both death eathers. On the contrary, i think they are both on DD side. I do not feel i need to elaborate anymore, i just hope that you all are wrong, because i think this idea is absurd.
I trust McGonagall and Snape!
iluvviktorkrum
Jul 5 2007, 05:12 PM
no i dont think that she is a traitor. i mean she has always been there for harry. i always thought of her as a help to harry when he needed it. she was very motherly with him also.