Morsmordre
Aug 3 2004, 09:48 AM
I just thought we ought to have a discussion on religion. The world wouldn't be the same without religion. So just tell us what religion you belong to and maybe some topics will pop up!
I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. We are more commonly known as 'Mormons.' And we are Christian, contrary to several rumors about us. And we don't live Polygamy.
Okay, who's next?
Mod Edit: ANY FLAMING IN HERE (SINCE THIS ON THE BASIS OF RELIGION) AND YOU WILL BE BANNED...OR SEVERELY PUNISHED. MOST PROBABLY BANNED THOUGH. SO DO NOT FLAME!
doomed_renascence
Aug 3 2004, 10:04 AM
hmm i'm not sure if this is the term...agnostic?
a person who questions if there really is a suprior up there in the heavens.
i'm agnostic, because i believe in science as well. just like in "angels and demons" i think religion can be incorporated with science.
my family is buddhist, but not extreme. we light a few insense [sp?] here and there during important holidays.
okay i'm dying to ask a question, but if i do, i might get flamed, or make you stop believing in your religion, or make you get all confused. if you want me to ask, i'll do it.
tashluvsdan
Aug 3 2004, 10:04 AM
Well, I'm Roman Catholic .. & many people assume many things, but I won't say anything, cuz ppl have their opinions!! Just like I have mine...
Spanner
Aug 3 2004, 10:35 AM
I'm Roman Catholic too. However, I consider myself to be a free-thinking Catholic; the Vatican can say what it likes about whatever and I won't give a toss. I'll live life in a manner I consider moral and I don't need the Pope to tell me what's right and wrong.
Sorry if that came across a bit aggressive. I am very spiritual but I think in many ways organised religion detracts from the spirituality and not rituality as the basis of religion.
astronomylover
Aug 3 2004, 11:59 AM
I'm a Jew and Proud of it!
MimolaChuck
Aug 3 2004, 02:05 PM
i never knew what i was. so i asked my mum. she said i was Protestant, which is some form of Roman Catholic, i think, those 2 religions were somehow linked, or thats what i remember from history. i honestly dont know what it is.
personally, i dont believe that there is any god or devil, or anything of the sort. all the stories in the bible, codswallop.
i dont mean to offend anyone, this is my personal opinion. and i've gotten told about why i shouldnt think this and it doesnt matter to me, i'll believe what i want.
doomed_renascence...can you ask that question? i want to know what it is.
NastyShort
Aug 3 2004, 03:17 PM
Let me get this said: ANY FLAMING IN HERE (SINCE THIS ON THE BASIS OF RELIGION) AND YOU WILL BE BANNED...OR SEVERELY PUNISHED. MOST PROBABLY BANNED THOUGH. SO DO NOT FLAME!
I'm a muslim, my religion is Islam. Even though terrible things are being said about muslims all over the world, I will continue to walk this earth. I have as much right to be here as do you all.
Louise
Aug 3 2004, 03:21 PM
(Darn it!! Nasty, you posted while I was writing!! No one who is worth knowing would criticise anyone for their beliefs... My best friend in uni is a Muslim and she is just about the nicest, most tolerant, forgiving, generous and friendly person I know. I totally agree with everything you said - (particularly the 'flaming' part....) Muslims do get a lot of bad press, it's so unfair....)
Anyway!! Yeah, I'd like to know too. I'm not going to get offended by anything, doomed_renascence. I'm agnostic, I suppose, if I have to be anything, although I was raised in the Christian faith - it just didn't really do a whole lot for me, to be honest. I'm a scientist (no, not an FBI one - I'm not having reality issues...I really am a scientist!!) I just found that not much really made sense to me in those teachings, that's all. I respect everyone's beliefs though and I'm not about to tell anyone they're mad or bad for believing whatever it is they do because religion is a highly personal thing - I'm a big believer in free speech and to each his own, you know?
Anyway, ask away!!!
doomed_renascence
Aug 3 2004, 08:52 PM
Alright

i'm not asking you guys to answer it, i just want to point out this question to people. socrates made people realize to question everything around us. so please keep this in mind.
If there really was a god who made the earth, the universe, the sea, the trees, people, our abilities and such, what/who made god?
god cant just come out of no where. something had to make god.
and where did that something come from!?!
and of course...there's a possibility that the universe's existance is all science.
if you read angels and demons by dan brown, antimatter made the universe. so where did antimatter come from??
angels and demons is based on real information. it's just the plot and characters that are made up.
Morsmordre
Aug 3 2004, 09:27 PM
I am going to answer your question Doomed, but first I must tell you that this answer will not make sense to us, since we don't have the knowledge and intelligence of God.
There was no beginning. God has existed forever. This is very hard for us to understand, in fact, it is impossible for us to understand it, because of our miniscule brains. When we talk about Goad creating the universe, we mean the stars, the planets - everything we can see of the universe. We can't understand that there is no beginning because to God, time is practically non-existant.
I'm sorry that I couldn't give you a more understandable answer but I'll just tell you this - I know for a fact that this is true. I testify that it is true. I am very strong in my religion and I know it is true. I have an answer for practically everything, so if you have any more questions... ask away!
Louise
Aug 4 2004, 10:06 AM
I'm sorry to say this, Morsmordre, but I really don't feel as though you answered Doomed's question. That, at least for me, is the main problem with much of the teaching from ALL religions - the texts, the leaders, the churches/mosques/synagogues etc purport to answer something without really answering it at all. For people like me who really just don't know what to believe, it just doesn't make sense. The only answers I've found so far that do are within science - they're logical, they are proven and they make sense. Maybe it's just me, but I have trouble having faith in something that conflicts with facts that I know to be true.
I have completed several courses in science, one of which dealt with astronomy and planetary science. I understand how the planets and the stars came to be - I understand the chemistry and physics behind the creation of the stars and the planets. Quantum mechanics has cut these processes down to smaller than atomic levels. It is a chemical and physical process which created the stars and the planets and, indeed, continues to make and destroy them even as we are sitting here having this debate. That being said, I also understand that even quantum mechanics can't explain everything. The greatest minds of our times are still continuing to try to understand 'The Big Bang' and even they don't REALLY know how the universe was born.
For me, that is the point at which you find God. That something that they can't understand...that spark that starts a heart beating, the spark that started the processes of life on this planet, that something which caused the universe to begin...
God, for me, isn't a tangible presence that can be pinned down...He is a force, a power, something that as yet, hasn't been explained.
I hope I'm being clear about this and I'm really not criticising anyone...I'm searching for answers just like every other person on the planet. I'd also like to say that I have nothing but the deepest respect and admiration for people who have such faith. A friend of mine died from cancer a couple of years ago. She was a Catholic, and her faith saw her through her illness and when she died, she was still smiling because she had faith that she was going to a better place.
My beliefs don't make me happy. I really wish I had my friend's faith...I really do. It seems to bring such comfort to people and helps them deal with things within their lives that are too terrible to put into words. It's just that nothing I've ever heard, from any religion, has given me the answers that I need yet. It just doesn't make sense to me.
I guess that's why they call it faith....sometimes, you just have to believe.
rupertlvr81
Aug 4 2004, 03:12 PM
I'm with tash and Spanner. I've been a Catholic ever since I can remember, as I was born and raised. I like it.
I don't criticize people for their beliefs, forums and chatrooms have taught me other wise.
To answer the question that doomed asked, I agree with morsmorde AND Dana.
Yes, God created the universe, and I have studied Science as well. Not everything, mind you, I'm only 13. But if the Big Bang theory actually exists, who put the particles to form Earth out there? God. God is omnipotent, oniscient, and everything onmi (can't think of any other examples

). He's created the particles that performed any of those scientific theories. I must say that I believe in morsmorde's more than that of Dana's, but this quote...
| QUOTE |
| I guess that's why they call it faith....sometimes, you just have to believe. |
That is what I've been taught all of my life and will continue to believe until the day I die.
By the way Dana, wondering if I could use that quote in my AIM profile? I'm looking for quotes from the people I know on the net so I can express myself better.

Answer back, please.
I'm not trying to get anyone angry, so please don't take any of this the wrong way. This is my belief and I'm holding my head high and ready to accept anything to be thrown at me.

to you all!
Louise
Aug 4 2004, 06:53 PM
Firstly, rupertlvr81, course you can!! Help yourself, mate...It's nice to think that something I've said was profound enough for someone to want to use it!! It just kind of summed up how I felt about it, that's all...
To touch on a point you made though, about God having created the particles that make up the planet....(please bear with me! There is a point, honestly!)
A rock is comprised of many minerals
Each mineral is comprised of a combination of chemical substances (ie Quartz is silicon and oxygen)
Each chemical substance is comprised of atoms
Each atom is comprised of neutrons, electrons and protons.
Each proton is comprised of three fundamental particles - quarks, gluons, neutrinos etc
The forces which hold these particles together are mostly electromagnetic interactions, exchanges of electrons and so on. If there is an imbalance in the number of electrons in the 'outer shells' of atoms, they seek to 'balance' themselves by interacting with other atoms. Overall, there seems to be a striving towards balance in all things. Now that's interesting to me - where did the order come from? Why do things seek to attain balance? What's wrong with imbalance? Is God there? Is God perfection? The perfect balance to which everything attains?
Now, for me at least, I've looked right down to the subatomic particle layer...God isn't in any of these layers...for me. These atoms react with each other because of electronic and magnetic forces - a positive charge will attract a negative one and so on. It makes sense, it's logical....
HOWEVER...they haven't got down yet (at least, I don't think they have, there are constantly new theories being tested) to where things like neutrinos come from, what they are, how they can pass through matter etc....
Thats what God is for me, anyway. I don't think it really matters what anyone believes Him to be, as long as you try to live a good life, treat others as you would like to be treated yourself and never pass judgements about other people.... As it says in 'Desiderata', 'Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be...'.
And that was found in a church.
Can I just ask a question - this goes out to everyone... Do you feel that belief stems from fear of what might happen to your soul if you don't believe?
This is not a critical question and I ask it with all due respect...I really would like to know. The main reason being that when I was little, I was told in church that my mom and dad were bad, evil people for not going to church and for cleaning the house on a Sunday. Now, as a seven year old child, those words terrified me, and I remember laying awake for many nights with horrible thoughts about how I would be alone in Heaven and how my mom and dad would be in Hell forever. Those memories are something that's stayed with me for twenty years (I'm 27 now).....
Ceres
Aug 4 2004, 07:24 PM
I'm Roman Catholic, the basis of all Christian religions (just to get that out in the open. Lol.). I'm rather open-minded, however. I also encorporate several Buddist ideas into my faith... *shrug*
Spanner
Aug 4 2004, 11:39 PM
| QUOTE (Dana_Scully @ Aug 5 2004, 04:53 AM) |
| Can I just ask a question - this goes out to everyone... Do you feel that belief stems from fear of what might happen to your soul if you don't believe? |
I think more for me - and this is hard to do because I'm trying to rationalise something inherently irrational - I am scared of death. Yes, even as a happy, healthy 19-year-old, I am scared that one day I will simply cease to be, everything of me I know to be absolutely me - these fingers I'm typing with, eyes I'm reading what I type with, ears I hear the music playing with - will be nothing. Will be dust. That terrifies me. I don't want to just stop, you know?
That's where belief comes in - I won't just die and that's that and so much for Spanner, it was as if I never was. I will go on in some corporeal form, my being is separate from my body. I desparately want to believe that my soul will live on. That's what my religion offers me - salvation from death.
Morsmordre
Aug 5 2004, 01:13 AM
Dana, something you said struck me. You said that you were afraid that you wouldn't be with your parents. This is something that makes my faith unique. We believe that family can be sealed for all eternity. You may have seen some Mormon temples around, I don't know, but have you ever wondered what we do in there? One thing we do is have sealings, which binds together families forever.
Also, tell me. If the Big Bang created the universe, what existed before that? There's no way that there was nothing. That's impossible.
Also, Spanner, you said that you are afraid of death. Religion makes me happy when I think of moving on. I absolutely abhor this world. The horrible things flying around, the sins praised - I hate it all.
And I think my answer was a perfect answer to the question. I said that our brains can't comprehend it, but we will understand it when we die.
doomed_renascence
Aug 5 2004, 08:46 AM
this may be off topic, i'm not sure.
i think everything can be derived from science and religion.
like, when we die, we will be reborn. god will make us live again, but in a different from.
law of conservation of mass: no matter is created or destroyed. energy is changed into different forms.
the creation of the universe. the big bang made all the planets, suns, stars, but god gave the bang the spark.
ohh, and the law of conservation of mass...since nothing is created, you can say god was here forever. in my chem class today, my tutor was explaining that there always has to be something there to make something else. so yeah, you can say god was here forever.
eh, it makes sense. but it's still a tad bit confusing for me =\
but i'm still skeptical about certain things. so, i guess i'm still agnostic for the time being.
morsmordre: this world isn't so bad. everyone commits at least one of the seven sins, but there's still good in people. we're human beings, so we're not perfect.
i admit, i'm scared to die. i dont want to leave my family, or this world. i love my memories of everything that i went through, and i dont want to lose them.
cool my 101th post
Louise
Aug 5 2004, 09:24 AM
Morsmordre, I didn't actually say that I was afraid of not being with my parents...at least, I don't think I did...and if I did, that wasn't really the impression I wanted to give. What I meant really was that this is what church taught me when I was 7 - I don't believe that it is true. I think my point about that really was that terrifying a 7 year old child into believing that this wonderful, benevolent, forgiving God could rip a child from its parents because she was pure when her parents were evil not only seemed contradictory to me, but also bordered on irresponsibility. Those teachings ruled through fear. They didn't make sense to me, as much of the Bible didn't I have to admit, which was the reason I sought answers elsewhere.
Now I haven't been to church since then, so I would never presume to know what they are teaching children now, but all I'm saying is that that experience has soured me, personally, into making a decision a long time ago that my children will not be forced into going to Sunday school if they don't want to. I don't want my children to be terrorised into being good because they will be afraid of what will happen to them after death (which is an horrific concept to be trying to teach a child anyway). I think that it is more than possible to instil morality into a child without having to do it through fear.
You said that the mormon temples seal families together for all eternity - does that mean that should a family member commit murder, rape etc that they will be forgiven? Doesn't that suggest that no matter what you do, as long as you repent for it, saying sorry somehow erases or negates the crime? I'm not attacking you, and I really am sorry if it comes across that way, it's just that this is one of the issues which caused dissonance for me and caused me to look elsewhere for the answers I needed.
On another point you made, how can you hate the world? God made it, he gave life to everyone in it. He knows every single person, he knows everything those people will ever do...how can you hate something that something so divine, so perfect has made?
And I'm afraid I still think now what I said earlier - you didn't really answer doomed's question. Saying that our brains cannot comprehend it is not an explanation. It doesn't make sense, and I just can't accept something that simply doesn't make sense. I agree that whatever force originally began the Big Bang, for want of a better term for it, was God. I believe in God. I believe that the universe strives towards balance and that that perfect balance is where God is - that makes sense to me. What doesn't make sense is to imply that God is some kind of sentient being capable of thought and speech.
Spanner - I think that it is inherent in every human being on the planet who is truthful with themselves that they are afraid of death - of all their thoughts and feelings, everything they've ever experienced and learned to suddenly cease to be. Out of that horrific thought grows the desperate need to believe that in some way, shape or form, we will continue to exist after death. Personally, I do believe that there is an existence - based on the concept that doomed mentioned (and very well put, I thought) -physics says that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, merely transformed. Religion teaches that we go to Heaven, Nirvana or some other concept of afterlife, spirituality teaches that we meet up with other family members who have died before us...these are comforting thoughts. I desperately want to believe in them because I'm human after all...
Just one more point (yeah! I hear you cry

Thanks to those who have persisted to read this far down!!) - Morsmordre - I'm from Britain and I've never been in to a Mormon temple, but I do have family in Idaho who are Mormons. I do know a little about the religion but not as much as I should do, I suppose. As far as I know, my uncle does practise polygamy. Are there different branches to the faith then? Like there are with Christians, you know?
tashluvsdan
Aug 5 2004, 01:03 PM
Wow, you all have very good theories about the creation of everything. I don't even know where to begin. Well, for me, religion has played a MAJOR part in my life.. & like Spanner, I think that's what my religion offers me.. salvation from death. Death is my ultimate fear. I guess it's because I fear the unknown. You know what I mean? I don't know what is going to happen to my soul, spirit, whatever it is in me. Eternity scares me, just as much as death. I'm the type of person that NEEDS the answers to everything, and its so hard for me to accept that I will never have the answers to those questions that bother me the most, it frustrates me like you can't imagine.
I've thought about some of the things some of you have mentioned.. sometimes I even question my faith. Which is considered like a sin in my religion.. denying God. I have my doubts about some things in my religion's bible, where did they get all this? Is it really the truth? How do we know this isn't made up? But like someone said earlier (can't remember who), you just have to have a little faith.. and thats exactly what has got me this far.
Sometimes I think having no religion would be much easier, but also much harder (for me at least). I say this because, we wouldn't have to worry about anything.. believing this & that.. or questioning things about this world & the next. It's harder (FOR ME!!) because whenever I am really depressed or sad or down, I have someone to pray to (a higher power).. someone to ask for help.. someone to ask for guidance & that provides a sort of comfort for me, knowing someone or something is listening to me & maybe, just maybe, might actually help me.. but without one, I don't know what I'd do..
If I've offended anyone w/ anything I said, I didn't mean it..
I have TONS MORE TO TALK ABOUT.. but I don't want to bore you! lol.
Ceres
Aug 6 2004, 01:08 AM
The Big bang is entirely possible... there just had to be SOMETHING to create the bang, eh?
For those who would liek to greater understand the gap of Science and Religion, and how they are both related, I HIGHLY reccomend reading Angels and Demons by Dan Brown. It is full of a lot of interesting information about science and it's relation with religion while being a spectacular suspense/mystery-esque novel. *nods*
Louise
Aug 6 2004, 07:45 AM
I may very well do that. Thanks for the recommendation, Ceres! My mum has read his other book, The Da Vinci code as she reckons that was really good, she liked his writing style and the amount of research he'd done.
Cheers!
doomed_renascence
Aug 6 2004, 08:48 AM
Angels and Demons
i absolutely loved the book, plus the da vinci code. i reccommned it to my friend, and he loves it too

(he became obsessed)
there's this character that believes that god gave the big bang the spark, and that's where i got it from.
Morsmordre
Aug 7 2004, 12:20 AM
I'm not exactly sure how the eternal sealing works, but I know that we are accountable for our actions. And people that rape and murder aren't worthy to enter the temple. Sealings are only valid when those sealed are worthy of such a blessing.
Mormons do not live Polygamy. A small percentage of a group used to, but we don't now. And also, I just wanna clear this up, Mormons are Christian. I am utterly annoyed when people assume we aren't Christian. I have a testimony of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. He is my saviour and I love him very much.
People today that live polygamy and claim to be Mormon, aren't Mormon. If ever they were Mormon, they are excommunicated if they start living Polygamy.
Also, I said when I answered doomed's question that we can't understand it. We aren't supposed to try to understand the mysteries of God. He is in a higher dimension, and can comprehend things that make us go insane.
Also, if the Big Bang created the universe, what existed before the Big Bang. There couldn't have been nothing!
I don't hate this world. I hate the sins of the worlds people. I hate the horrible feeling I have when I am in public. I am completely honest with myself when I say I'm not afraid of death. I'm not afraid because I know how happy I will be when I am on the other side. I'm just sad that everyone can't have that knowledge.
NastyShort
Aug 8 2004, 05:16 PM
A common misconception about Islam is that we kill people if they refuse to convert. NOT TRUE. Those are EXTREMISTS. Extremists have gone WAY far from the teachings of the Quran. The Quran tells us to be peaceful people, not to kill everyone in sight.
The Quran also teaches us of the afterlife. Which, is quite terrifying. I'm not going to preach, since I sincerely dislike it when people preach to me, but I'll tell you, there is some pretty scary stuff in the Quran. Which, quite effectively, scares "you straight."
I dunno where I'm going with this post....just explaining a bit about Islam I suppose.
Morsmordre
Aug 9 2004, 06:06 AM
I don't think it's good to do things out of fright. No offense. I do what I think is right because I desire to make my Lord, my Father in heaven, pleased with me and what I have done with my life.
NastyShort
Aug 9 2004, 03:12 PM
| QUOTE (Morsmordre @ Aug 9 2004, 12:06 AM) |
| I don't think it's good to do things out of fright. No offense. I do what I think is right because I desire to make my Lord, my Father in heaven, pleased with me and what I have done with my life. |
Yes, I do that to. But, are you not afraid of what he will do to you if you displease him?
Islam teaches muslims to fear Allah. Which is where the fear comes in.....
Miseria
Aug 10 2004, 06:26 AM
"Through the Looking Glass". That poem, "The Walrus and the Carpenter" that's an indictment of organized religion. The walrus, with his girth and his good nature, he obviously represents either Buddha, or with his tusk, the Hindu elephant god, Lord Ganesha. That takes care of your Eastern religions. Now the carpenter, which is an obvious reference to Jesus Christ, who was raised a carpenter's son, he represents the Western religions. Now in the poem, what do they do? They dupe all these oysters into following them and then proceed to shuck and devour the helpless creatures en masse. I don't know what that says to you, but to me it says that following these faiths based on mythological figures ensure the destruction of one's inner being. Organized religion destroys who we are by inhibiting our actions... by inhibiting our decisions, out of fear of some intangible parent figure who shakes a finger at us from thousands of years ago.
Scik
Aug 10 2004, 07:16 AM
I feel that all religions are basically the same. IF there does happen to be a supreme being (God if you will) he/she/it will allow us (if possible beyond death) into his/her/its club (Heaven/Hell if you will) if we fallow the basic rules of being good. All these rules are found in all religions. (Minus the religions the believe in the opposite of good.)
The basic rules...
Be Moral. Stay Healthy. Use your brain. Play nice. Peace. Be Humble. Take care of those who cannot take care of thierselves... etc.
Honestly... I think that the idea that God will not let me into heaven beacause I am a certain religion, is crap. If I fallow those basic rules, God/Allah/Buddah/Whomever will see that I am a good person and let me in. This is where I have a big issue with the Church of Jesus Christ of Ladder Day Saints (Mormons), and all the other religions who say they are the one and only true church. Well geniuses, your all teaching the same thing.
I happen to have been born and raised in a Mormon home. While I used to be extremely active while I was younger I have had some issues with the people and some serious questions I need answered before I devote myself to any religion.
I also think that religion is Psycological.
1. We want to believe we are being protected. Someone always there to protect us. The parent that is always there. Sounds like the worlds most common imaginary friend.
2. We have been raised to believe it. I was, alot of you were too. In alot of places people are not allowed to question what they have been taught. Thats one nice thing about America is I can question my faith and go looking for the truth... if there is a truth.
3. The power of convincing yourself. Ever been so scraed, that you had to throw up before you felt better? You werent sick... Your BRAIN did this to your body. Like Mormon missionaries, who go out and try to recruit new members, I think if you listen to all these great stories, then study it hoping to find the truth, you actually convince yourself its the truth... when its just a dream. Its all in your head.
Thats just my personal opinion. And when I get the proof I need to believe otherwise, I will let you all know.
Morsmordre
Aug 10 2004, 07:34 AM
It's very interesting to me that you were raised Mormon, scik, as I am Mormon myself. But what questions did you need answered? I've had every question answered through the church.
And when you say that we just 'convince' ourselves that our religion is true, you are quite wrong. Obviously, you weren't a strong member of the Mormon church. You obviously didn't feel the power of God while you heard the truth. I wasn't converted because I thought and thought about it, I was converted when I prayed to my God and received my answer that the church was true.
And not all religions teach the same thing. Yes, the standards are usually similar, but the doctrines are quite different. For example, is God the Father and Jesus Christ the same person? This is one of the main differences of the churches.
Scik, you said that the opinion of whether or not God will let you into heaven is 'crap'. Don't you remember the teachings of the Mormon church? The Plan of Salvation? You must have forgotten, because that shows that you don't have to be a certain religion to go to heaven.
rubysoho
Aug 10 2004, 03:28 PM
im catholic.
i used to believe in god before, but now i am beginning to question some of the churches beliefs. i know by the end of highschool i will probaly begin to have more faith and belief in my religion, but right now im really beginning to doubt all of it. i never really got the choice to be catholic or continue being catholic when it was the time of my confirmation because, well my parents said i had no choice. they brought me up catholic and im goin to remain catholic. it kinda does suck though. but i know i will thank them for it one day.
Morsmordre
Aug 10 2004, 11:37 PM
I don't think it's really good to do something because you are forced to do it. You need to find the truth on your own. You can't just do things because you're told, 'this is how it is, this is what you're going to do'. You should really find out what YOU believe.
Neal
Aug 11 2004, 06:42 AM
| QUOTE (Morsmordre @ Aug 10 2004, 01:34 AM) |
| Scik, you said that the opinion of whether or not God will let you into heaven is 'crap'. Don't you remember the teachings of the Mormon church? The Plan of Salvation? You must have forgotten, because that shows that you don't have to be a certain religion to go to heaven. |
Will you please tell what The Plan of Salvation is? I'm rather curious.
Scik
Aug 12 2004, 06:33 AM
Morsmordre: Are you sure you recieved an answer? Or did you just convince yourself? It is medically possible to convince yourself of anything... people raised in bad situations teach thierselves that its bad to cry and no matter what they never do for the rest of thier lives.
I really dont want to say that religion is bad... I just think its all in our heads. Makes us feel good that someone is watching over us and the world really isnt as bad as it is.
Neal:
The Church Of Jesus Christ of Ladder-Day Saints "Plan of Salvation" is that once you lived with your Heavenly Father (aka God) as one of His spirit children before you began your life on Earth. You were happy there, but God knew that you could not continue to progress unless you left Him for a time.
So He presented His plan—the plan of salvation. It allowed you to come to Earth, where you would gain a physical body and would have experiences that would help you to learn and grow. The purpose of the plan is to help you become more like Him.
Heavenly Father knew that while you were on Earth you would make mistakes—everyone does. So, as part of His plan, He provided a Savior, Jesus Christ, who would make it possible for sins to be forgiven, and for all people who accept His sacrifice to return to live with Heavenly Father. (Accepting would be to get a Mormon Baptism)
The fact that you are living on Earth means that you accepted Heavenly Father’s plan and came here wanting to do all you could to receive all He has to offer.
Basically... You can return to live with God in Heaven with your family and everyone else as spirits. That is IF you accept that Jesus died for the sins of mankind and get baptized.
Morsmordre
Aug 12 2004, 07:24 AM
You got most of that right, scik. But you said that we can all return to live with God as SPIRITS. That is wrong. We can return to live with him in resurrected bodies. And you did'nt complete the Plan of Salvatian. Here it is.
After we die, we either go to Spirit Paradise or Spirit Prison, depending on whether we have been good or not. People that didn't have the truth on earth are taught the gospel and have the chance to accept it or not. Baptisms for the dead and other ordinances are done in the Mormon temples. If people accept the Gospel, the temple work is valid. Then, once Christ has come to earth, there is a judgment and everyone is sentenced. The is not just a Heaven and Hell. There are three kingdoms of Glory in Heaven. The highest and most Glorious is the Celestial Kingdom. Those who accepted the Gospel in their hearts and tried to do their best go to the Celestial Kingdom. Then there is the Terrestrial Kingdom. Those who had the chance to accept the Gospel on earth but didn't, but then accepted it in the Spirit World before judgment, go here. The lowest kingdom of glory is the Telestial Kingdom. Here is where people that never accepted the Gospel, alive or dead, go. Murderers and sexual sinners, among others, go here.
Then there is Outer Darkness (hell). This is the place for those who heard the Gospel, had the truth and knew that it was true, but then denied Christ and the Holy Spirit.
This is the Plan of Salvatian, one of the major differences of the Mormon Church. Many people never had the chance to hear the Gospel of Christ on earth so they must have a chance. Many churches teach that if you do not accept Christ, you go to hell, but what about all the people before Christ? They had no chance. Does that mean they all go to hell? I don't think so.
If you want any more informatian, you can go to www.mormon.org . It is a site for investigators of the church. There is tons of information there.
Shierly_Watson
Sep 3 2004, 11:12 AM
However, I really believe in God. My religion is christian. Jesus loves me, I know that. Yes, I heard, everyone who don't believe him will go to the hell. I don't know it's right or not. although like that, I still believe him. Do you all read bible everyday? Well, I'm trying to read it everyday. My priest always tell to us to read bible everyday. I think it'll help us. hehe....
Thalia Euphrosyne Muse
Sep 13 2004, 07:17 PM
| QUOTE |
| Muslims do get a lot of bad press, it's so unfair.... |
What about those poor christian arabs? They don't get a lot of bad press on being arabs? They really should be pitied- what with sharing an ethnicty with a bunch of terrorists and not even the same religion. Awful...
I don't suppose the "Palestinians" are getting a bad press. After all that is the media lies- that they are having a bad press...
Thalia E. Muse
Flygal101
Sep 13 2004, 09:56 PM
i am a hindu!
i am surprised to see no one else who is a hindu
but i think all religions are like the same
cuz many stories in each religion is told differently but they have the same meaning.
I think it's special to believe in something i believe in god and heaven and hell.........angels and demons.......yeh......
Evil-Lena
Sep 13 2004, 10:00 PM
i don't have an religion actually

but i'll go to churche now and day's
Shierly_Watson
Sep 14 2004, 11:33 AM
Yea.. go to church is really fun. I love go to church every sunday. It's cool....
LuciusMalfoy
Sep 14 2004, 05:43 PM
I'm a Chirstian (Non-denominational) I go to church and it's really fun. We just pray and worship and study the bible. They don't look down on people or condem them for doing wrong. It's a really great church and I love all the people there.
Flygal101
Sep 14 2004, 09:46 PM
i have an essay and i'm doing it about religion
many people have a religion but some don't it's called "Atheism"
they don't believe in god. but in a way it's kinda like a religion right?
i think so because they all beieve in one thing and that is that science created them and stuff......so i guess it is.....maybe not
*do not mean to offend anyone who is atheism*
NastyShort
Sep 14 2004, 11:45 PM
| QUOTE (Flygal101 @ Sep 13 2004, 03:56 PM) |
i am a hindu! i am surprised to see no one else who is a hindu but i think all religions are like the same cuz many stories in each religion is told differently but they have the same meaning. I think it's special to believe in something i believe in god and heaven and hell.........angels and demons.......yeh...... |
Namaste! Sorry, I'm not hindu, but I've seen quite a few hindi movies.
DibbleTheDimwitted
Sep 15 2004, 12:23 AM
I belong to the church of . . . uhm, the church of, erm. Oh, wait I know, we're the Amnesiacs. Or, well . . . I think we are.
We sit around and forget together. We used to have a rosery, and some holy water, but we misplaced it, and have neglected to find it. Why? I forget.
We figure God's got his own things to do, and we'd just get in the way. So we take lots of naps on comfy sofas. Someone once said that religion is fine, but people are better, I forget who. And I once heard that while God's on vacation, we best be looking out for each other (but it could have been his travel agent who said this, I don't recall!). And it would seem the only people who know what's on the other side are too busy having fun to come back and tell us, so we Amnesiacs just nod our heads and remember what it used to be like to remember.
*wink
Thalia Euphrosyne Muse
Sep 15 2004, 08:29 AM
| QUOTE |
| The Quran tells us to be peaceful people |
Do you know that in Camp David, after signing one of those many peace agreements between Israel and the PA, Carter (I believe it was him) tried to find quotes from the quran and the Bible about peace? He found many quotes, quite easily from the Bible, but couldn't find any in the Quran. Eventually, he used a quote describing that if the conquers would surrender, then you are permitted to let them live.
Peaceful religion?
Flygal101
Sep 16 2004, 08:07 PM
really nasty short!
what kind of movies
realbullet
Sep 17 2004, 02:29 AM
I'm Roman Catholic, but I don't believe for a second that any religion has a monopoly on "the truth"; however, the basic tenets of Christianity work for me, and I have a great love of the Catholic Mass.
Judiasm & Islam teach you to fear God(Allah). The Christion message is opposite -- you will strive to become better out of love. The central message that defines Christianity is:
"You should love the Lord your God with all your mind, all your heart, and all your soul; and you will love your neighbor as your self."
BTW, I am an avid student of Western history -- The DaVinci Code is very poorly researched. He links events which should not be, and he misues facts to support his thesis. This is why there have been so many books written that dispute his facts. I'm assuming that Angels & Demons is similar, but I haven't read it.
Shierly_Watson
Sep 17 2004, 02:32 PM
Yea.. But I really love JEsus...
Lynn
Sep 17 2004, 07:43 PM
I don't have a religion. Am I unique?
Flygal101
Sep 17 2004, 10:30 PM
well lynn majority of people have a religion.......
but remember everyone is unique in their own way!
halfbloodprincess15
Sep 18 2004, 06:04 PM
I am a Christian, but i dont go to church as much as i should. I pray every night before i go to bed..but i am to busy to go to church....after i saw The Passion of THe Christ by Mel Gibson my faith was really strengthened. I now own that movie and i have only watched it once since i bought it. It isn't a movie to watch over and over again, but it is a movie you should watch often to keep your faith strong. I wear a cross necklace and a bracelet that has crosses and hearts all over it.